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Just browsing in the League Championship Series

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 16, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yesterday brought a report of potential interest between the Yankees and free-agent-to-be Carlos Beltran, but that’s not the only player in these League Championship Series who could be a fit for the Yankees this offseason. Here are three names from each still-alive team that could be an option — one way or another — for next season.

David Ross, Jhonny PeraltaTIGERS

SS Jhonny Peralta
Now that the Tigers have Jose Iglesias, they have little reason to re-sign departing Peralta. Clearly he comes with some unwanted baggage — not sure the Yankees need another player with Biogenesis ties — but he’s a pretty good hitter with experience at shortstop and third base, two positions that happen to be significant question marks going forward.

2B Omar Infante
Another Tigers free agent to be, and another versatile infielder who could fill one opening or another. Infante is 31 years old and hit .318/.345/.450 this season, one of his best all-around seasons coming at a good time as he hits the market. He’s primarily a second baseman, but he’s played shortstop, third base and all three outfield positions.

RHP Joaquin Benoit
A very good setup man for quite a while, Benoit stepped into the closer role in the middle of this season and handled it pretty well. The obvious fit here would be as either competition for — or a complement to — Dave Robertson. Of course, he turns 37 in July, but there aren’t many available, experienced closers much younger.

Stephen DrewRED SOX

SS Stephen Drew
The Red Sox signed him to a one-year deal last winter, and he responded with a .253/.333/.443 slash line as their regular shortstop. Now the Yankees could try to do something similar — assuming they can’t count on Derek Jeter at shortstop — and hope that Drew’s left-handed bat is a good fit for Yankee Stadium.

C Jarrod Saltalamacchia
The Red Sox traded for Saltalamacchia back in 2010, and now his contract is about to expire. He’s 28 years old, and he’s hitting the market at a time when the Yankees don’t have a proven offensive catcher. Saltalamacchia hit .273/.338/.466 with 40 doubles this season. He’s a switch hitter who’s best from the left side.

OF Jacoby Ellsbury
Hard to imagine a Yankees/Red Sox trade, so potential targets are pretty much limited to free agents. And the Red Sox don’t have a bigger free agent than Ellsbury, their 30-year-old center fielder who’s about to hit the market as one of the top players available. Not a great fit for the Yankees considering they have Brett Gardner, but I suppose they could trade away Gardner and then sign Ellsbury.

NLCS Dodgers Cardinals BaseballCARDINALS

3B David Freese
Second base prospect Kolten Wong is big league ready, and breakout second baseman Matt Carpenter is able to play third base, so the Cardinals could shuffle their infield to make Freese available on the trade market. This was a down year for Freese — .262/.340/.381 with only nine homers — but he’s an experienced third baseman and veteran postseason performer who could be readily available.

1B Matt Adams
A big power-hitting lefty, Adams has been plenty productive for the Cardinals, but he doesn’t have an everyday job because Allen Craig is at first base. Hard to think the Cardinals would trade Craig — they just signed him to a long-term deal — but they might be open to dealing Adams, who could be a strong DH option for the Yankees. That said, Craig’s ability to play the outfield means Adams doesn’t have to be on the trading block.

RHP Lance Lynn
A former first-round pick who’s pitched just two full seasons in the big leagues, Lynn turns 27 in May and that makes him an old man by Cardinals standards. There might be more exciting young pitchers on that Cardinals roster, but the chances of trading for Michael Wacha, Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal or Carlos Martinez seem extremely slim. Lynn might not be available either, but he might be a more realistic target.

Andre EthierDODGERS

OF Andre Ethier
Either Ethier or Matt Kemp, really. Both were recently signed to long-term deals, but the Dodgers outfield is now overflowing with Kemp, Ethier, Carl Crawford and Yasil Puig. That’s led to speculation about a possible trade. The Yankees could be in the outfield market if they don’t sign Beltran or re-sign Curtis Granderson, but is it worth picking up either of these contracts?

3B Juan Uribe
A potential short-term, relatively cheap fill-in at third base. Uribe is a free agent at the end of this season, so he should be readily available, and he’s coming off a solid 2013 season with a .278/.331/.438 slash line. That said, he also turns 35 in July and played a total of just 143 games in 2011 and 2012, hitting just .199/.262/.289. Mark Ellis, at 36 years old, could be a similar experienced but underwhelming option at second base should the Dodgers decline his 2014 option.

LHP J.P. Howell
Nothing flashy or particularly exciting here, just a veteran left-handed reliever with experience in the American League East — he spent most of his big league career with the Rays — who held lefties to a .164/.225/.227 slash line this season. Howell is still just 30 years old, and could be a veteran replacement for departing free agent Boone Logan.

Associated Press photos

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119 Responses to “Just browsing in the League Championship Series”

  1. blake October 16th, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    I’ll pose this question again.

    if the Cubs would do Castro for Nova straight up would you do it? And would you rather have Castro or Andrus going forward?

  2. blake October 16th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    I’d certainly be interested in Kemp but I don’t think the Dodgers will trade him

  3. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    blake October 16th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
    I’ll pose this question again.

    if the Cubs would do Castro for Nova straight up would you do it? And would you rather have Castro or Andrus going forward?

    —————————————————-
    yes to Nova for Castro..otherwise sign Drew and Peralta

  4. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Kemp = injury

  5. DONNYBROOK October 16th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    I believe the bulk of A-Rod’s punishment, is going to be based on the same rationale that Nixon’s impeachment was. “It’s Not the crime, it’s the Cover-Up”. A-Rod’s attempting to cover-up his transgression, will give the arbitrator the cover he needs to satisfy his employer\MLB and level a 150 game suspension on A-Rod. 50 games for using PED’s, and a Punitive 100 games for his actions in an attempted Cover-Up.

  6. blake October 16th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: #dodgers high on cuban 2B-SS alex guerrero and hot after him. http://t.co/y1OJLDCcrj

    I wish we tried to get Cubans

  7. MTU October 16th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Love to get Friese.

    Wonder what it would take.

    Guy is a quiet hero.

  8. Your Name Here October 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Nightmare scenario…. Can signs with Sox and switches to 3rd base.

  9. Your Name Here October 16th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Cano*

  10. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    I don’t think the Yanks could do anything dumber than trading Nova.

    What sense does it make to deal a cost-controlled 27-year-old starter with a 37-18 record the last three years? Especially when they have three starters that may leave as free agents?

  11. blake October 16th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    “What sense does it make to deal a cost-controlled 27-year-old starter with a 37-18 record the last three years? Especially when they have three starters that may leave as free agents?”

    well everything depends…..depends on who you’re getting back. He’s got a good record but over the last 3 seasons his era+ is 105 and his era is 4.00. I agree with you that he’s valuable but the thing is that he’s pretty much their best trade piece and he does carry risk going forward…….maybe he has really turned the corner this time and he’s going to be good from now on…..but we have seen him lose it and be bad before and it could happen again.

    I would need a lot back to trade him but I’d certainly consider it for the right player…..to solve SS long term I’d consider it.

  12. blake October 16th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Joel Sherman ?@Joelsherman1 3m
    Postseason OPS collectively so far is .644 — which means the playoffs have hit like Ronny Cedeno, Rick Cerone, Dave Roberts #pitching

    the playoffs still hit 80 OPS points better than Stewie.

  13. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Blake —-

    I wouldn’t do anything for a long term SS until Derek Jeter’s status is settled. I don’t believe it’s a good idea to force him to 3B or DH or anywhere else.

    Castro is a talented kid, but I have to have MUCH better pitching depth before I move what now must be viewed as my # 2 starter for a guy with coachability issues, a long term contract and back to back years of decline.

    Great line about the lousy playoffs OPS still being far better than Stewie….. but Nunie kicks their butt!

  14. Giuseppe Franco October 16th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Joel Sherman ?@Joelsherman1 3m
    Postseason OPS collectively so far is .644 — which means the playoffs have hit like Ronny Cedeno, Rick Cerone, Dave Roberts #pitching

    —-

    It’s funny how people can cherry pick numbers to support their argument because you can also argue that the teams with the better pitching on paper both lost in the the ALDS (TB and OAK) and is now on the verge of losing the ALCS (DET).

  15. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    I don’t think he’s cherry picking anything, just pointing out how miserable the offense has been…. of course you CAN use those stats to point out how GREAT the pitching has been.

    Giuseppe — How’ve you been. Seems like you’ve been on and off lately. hope all is well.

  16. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Not rooting so much for Detroit as I am rooting against Boston.

    I’m not a Miggy fan, but I admire him as an unrivaled hitter in today’s game.

    Sucks that his health issues are helping the Red Sox. The series has been a well pitched one and fun to watch, except that deep down, I hate both teams. Well, let me rephrase: I don’t hate the Tigers as much as I dislike Leyland, find Cabrera’s spousal abuse stuff disturbing, and am sick of Verlander commercials and of losing to the Tigers in October.

    Other than that, I would have no problem if they continued to be baseball’s version of the Buffalo Bills and made it to the WS ;)

    A slight annoyance is the idea that the Cardinals would win another WS, but even though that would make it 3 in eight years, I think I’ll probably be in the next world – long into the next world – before they ever threaten the Yanks’ 27 titles…. Hopefully, by the time I’m leaving Focus 27, we’ll have a few more rings to add to the pile.

    Hey, I’ll root for anyone to beat Boston.

  17. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    “I wouldn’t do anything for a long term SS until Derek Jeter’s status is settled. I don’t believe it’s a good idea to force him to 3B or DH or anywhere else.”

    why not? The first step to moving him to a position better suited for him at this age is to actually get a SS……I’m the biggest Jeter fan there is but it’s time……

  18. Giuseppe Franco October 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    86w183,

    Doing well, thanks for asking.

    I’ve been on and off simply because the Yanks weren’t that interesting this season and have been heading towards mediocrity. Hard to watch a sinking Titanic.

    That’s the primary reason but the other reason is because I don’t care about October baseball when the Yanks aren’t in it.

    My only hope now is the RS don’t win the WS.

  19. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    I picked a Cards..RS WS back on Qct 2nd with the Cards winning…..but something is telling me that RS will get it done

  20. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    “Hey, I’ll root for anyone to beat Boston.”

    exactly

  21. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    If the Tigers beat Peavy today they’ll be right back in it.

    The bullpen stinks, but there isn’t one Boston starter that you say, crap, the Tigers can’t get to that guy. They’ve pitched well (Bucky got his ass saved), but the Tigers still have a decided SP edge, and a team that can hit in Fenway if one of these turns into a slugfest.

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    That’s the primary reason but the other reason is because I don’t care about October baseball when the Yanks aren’t in it.

    My only hope now is the RS don’t win the WS.
    ///

    GF,

    I get rankled all over again watching this stuff because we blew a chance to really use 2009 as grace to retool and stay on top of the sport. Between Hal, Levine and Cashman-Girardi “pitching wins/pitch framing” didactisms, and a refusal to see a lineup going south (which many of us saw), the ownership and FO have effectively taken us out of meaningful Octobers since 2010, when the writing was on the wall.

    Yea, I’m pissed off watching the Red Sox and Tigers, not just because I have only antipathy for both, but because it seems our fearless leaders went out of their way, into the darkness, to ensure we wouldn’t be there.

    Other than hating Boston and the media’s love affair with them, I don’t want the Yankees stupidly reacting to Boston success in a knee-jerk manner.

    They need to get beat.

  23. Doreen October 16th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    They need to keep Uehara out of the equation.

  24. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    if Cabrera wasn’t hurt I think this series would look a lot differnt right now

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    blake, absolutely. He’s got an Alex type injury. There was a flyout in one of the games CoMerica games that he couldn’t get all of, for instance. He’s somewhat eunuched.

    There’s no way Lackey, despite having a good year, is going to repeatedly get a healthy Miggy out, for instance.

  26. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    why not? The first step to moving him to a position better suited for him at this age is to actually get a SS……I’m the biggest Jeter fan there is but it’s time……

    ************************************************************************

    I’m not convinced there is a position better suited to him and after 17 years he deserves the chance to try and get back to the player he was in 2012. I would not sign him beyond 2014 unless there was another plan, but long term SS solution has to wait until Jeter gives it his best shot as far as I’m concerned.

  27. BIG AL October 16th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Sorry folks, but, your thoughts and dreams of players that could become Yankees, is nothing but a pipe dream.

    This is no longer “The Boss’s team, its Hal’s, and he will not spend the funds necessary to make dreams a reality. :(

  28. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    “I’m not convinced there is a position better suited to him and after 17 years he deserves the chance to try and get back to the player he was in 2012″

    SS is the hardest position to play on the field after catcher and it’s the one that requires the most athletic ability…..3B is better suited for him IMO at age 40 coming off that ankle injury……it could add another year or two to his career potentially.

    Cashman has a lot of things to do this winter but a major priority should be to talk to Jeter and then find a longterm answer at SS if at all possible.

  29. BIG AL October 16th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    blake -

    I disagree, Jeter does not have the arm to play 3B, IMHO.

  30. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    “blake, absolutely. He’s got an Alex type injury. There was a flyout in one of the games CoMerica games that he couldn’t get all of, for instance. He’s somewhat eunuched.”

    very similar to Alex last October…..all arms swings…..he’s just not himself at all. He’s been a little more productive than Alex was simply because he’s still in his prime but he doesn’t look anywhere close to his normal self. There is no way Miggy gets dominated like last night if he’s healthy…..he at least gets that run in there normally.

  31. yankinvegas October 16th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    The thing that really bothers me about the Yankees is how did a team with so many assets get themselves into the position that we are in now?
    The media love fest with Boston, my hatred of Boston and MLB, that’s all window wash to the main question.
    Hal has to step up and keep this franchise elite. An off year every once in a while is perfectly acceptable but the total lack of prospects in the system at the higher levels is a complete and abject failure on the part of the Yankees.
    Why are we so scared of the Cuban market? I cringe every time I see Puig, knowing we never even bid.
    I don’t care if we have to post $100 million for Tanaka. They have the money. He would cost only about 8-10 m per season on the luxury tax. Get him.
    The question of why MLB is so obsessed with the Yankees payroll is a story which no reporter will ever look into because all of the “journalists” hate the Yankees, too.

  32. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    “I disagree, Jeter does not have the arm to play 3B, IMHO.”

    a big misconception is that you need more arm strength to play 3B than SS…..it’s not true…..SS’s make the longest and most difficult throws in the infield. ……they play much deeper and 3B rarely make throws as long as the one a SS makes in the hole to their right. If you have the arm strength to play SS you have the arm strength to play 3B pretty much universally.

  33. BIG AL October 16th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    This would be funny, if A-Rod wins his arb hearing, and wants to stick it to the Yankees, he plays long enough to get the HR bonus, then goes on and off the DL, not long enough for the insurance to pay his salary, and stick it to Hal and Cashman.

  34. Giuseppe Franco October 16th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    GF,

    I get rankled all over again watching this stuff because we blew a chance to really use 2009 as grace to retool and stay on top of the sport. Between Hal, Levine and Cashman-Girardi “pitching wins/pitch framing” didactisms, and a refusal to see a lineup going south (which many of us saw), the ownership and FO have effectively taken us out of meaningful Octobers since 2010, when the writing was on the wall.

    Yea, I’m pissed off watching the Red Sox and Tigers, not just because I have only antipathy for both, but because it seems our fearless leaders went out of their way, into the darkness, to ensure we wouldn’t be there.

    Other than hating Boston and the media’s love affair with them, I don’t want the Yankees stupidly reacting to Boston success in a knee-jerk manner.

    They need to get beat.

    —–

    I’m with you on that. And you’re right…it didn’t take a brain surgeon to see this coming a mile away.

    This downward spiral towards mediocrity could have been prevented (at least to some degree) if they had simply been more aggressive with IFAs and done a better job drafting and developing their own.

    They have been slow to evolve the last few years.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Big Al,

    They we will have to hope then for a personality transplant, a cosmic intervention, a visit and a tongue lashing from George in the multiverses.

    No one’s coming to the park unless there is something to root for. That’ll hurt Hal where he lives.

  36. BIG AL October 16th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    blake -

    Jeter has shown less and less lateral movment, and bounces more and more balls thrown to 1B.

    I hope he can come back and be the player he was prior to the ankle injury, I just don’t see it happening.

    Later, have a great day.

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    This downward spiral towards mediocrity could have been prevented (at least to some degree) if they had simply been more aggressive with IFAs and done a better job drafting and developing their own.

    They have been slow to evolve the last few years.
    ///

    Yup. & I have seen no evidence, no frank or read-between-the-lines quote that tells me they understand their own blunders.

    Maybe the Patterson appointment. Beyond that, unless I missed something, I don’t see anyone owning the thing. Hal having some meeting about the system doesn’t really do much for me.

  38. I Am Winning October 16th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    How is Elsbury not a good fit because we have Gardner? Elsbury does everything Gardner does just 10x better.

    The issue with the list is that it changes nothing. This is exactly what got the Yankees in the mess they are currently in. Do those players make the Yankees better in 2014? Yes. But at what cost? Draft picks, and having a repeat of this year in 2015? I’m all for Elsbury (obviously won’t happen) abd guys like Cano. But who knows when a player as old as Beltran will drop off, it could be next season. We need to start developing the farm to use as pieces in trades and to bring up. I’m tired of all stop gap players that only work for a few months.

  39. blake October 16th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    “Jeter has shown less and less lateral movment, and bounces more and more balls thrown to 1B.”

    both reasons to move him to a position that’s easier to play.

    Jeter has great hands and one of his strengths has remained coming in on the ball…..it’s little different at 3B because the angle is different but I think he could do it just fine.

  40. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Sign Cano: 8 years – $200M (hopefully 7 years but I doubt it)
    Sign Abreu: 6 years – $60M
    Sign Tanaka: 6 years – $60M ($60M posting fee)
    Sign Kuroda: 1 year – $14M
    Sign Reynolds: 1 year – $3M
    Trade Nunez + Ramirez + Heathcott + Austin + something else if needed for Tulo

    We get better, younger, keep our draft pick, and if Arod if off the books we stay at around $170M next year.

  41. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Good afternoon guys,

    Elsbury is better than Gardner but not by much overall… I rather have a cheap lesser CF in Gardner than what I believe will be a rather expensive player in Elsbury… He is another albatross contract in the making.

  42. blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    “How is Elsbury not a good fit because we have Gardner? Elsbury does everything Gardner does just 10x better.”

    1) because he will cost 10x more or close
    2) because he’s made of glass
    3) because he’s not actually 10x better than Garder…..he’s better just not nearly that much better.

  43. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Yup. & I have seen no evidence, no frank or read-between-the-lines quote that tells me they understand their own blunders.

    ======================

    Au contraire…. They have basically patted their backs and blamed it on the prospects

  44. blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    pyanks,

    love the plan……don’t know how realistic it is……but A for effort.

  45. blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    if they could get Cano for under 200 million, sign Tanaka, and find a way to get Tulo, Andrus, or Castro then Id be happy happy happy

  46. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    pyanks,

    love the plan……don’t know how realistic it is……but A for effort.

    ==============================

    I don´t…. Although I believe that it would make us a lot better short term…I believe vehemently on homegrown cores

  47. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    IF Jeter is okay with it, fine but I’m not forcing him to 3B for 2014 until/unless he shows that he can’t be what he was just a year ago.

    With all the Yankees issues, playing hardball with Jeter is not on my top ten things of things to accomplish this off-season.

    Ellsbury is better than Gardner, but only about 8 % better based on career OPS, hardly 10X better. He’ll cost 3X as much in 2014 if not more. He was a super stud in 2011, but in the last two years combined he has fewer Xtra base hits, HR and RBI than he had in 2011 alone.

  48. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
    “How is Elsbury not a good fit because we have Gardner? Elsbury does everything Gardner does just 10x better.”

    1) because he will cost 10x more or close
    2) because he’s made of glass
    3) because he’s not actually 10x better than Garder…..he’s better just not nearly that much better.

  49. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    Blake…..Gardner has had injuries the last two years..don’t know about this glass thing

  50. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    all you have to do is compare stats that will tell the story

  51. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    I think Jeter should be moved to 3B…I think he should have been moved in 2012…I don´t believe he will have the lateral movement to play short..Also as Blake points out, if you have the arm to play short, you have the arm to play third…The problem I have seen with Jeter is that his arm has lost strength prior to the injury already…In truth, although I wouldn´t bet against him, I think his playing days may be over

  52. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Joeman,

    Nobody is arguing that Elsbury isn´t better…Just that he is way more expensive and probably not worth the contract he will get…The difference is talent doesn´t warrant the difference in price

  53. 86w183 October 16th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    I wouldn’t take into consideration ANYTHING that Jeter did or didn’t do on the field last year. He was never healthy, not once. He deserves the chance to get back to who he was in 2012 before the Yanks go spending talent assets on a long-term replacement.

    Find me two starting pitchers, at least one reliever, a catcher and a RF that can hit…. THEN we can worry about SS and 3B.

    That’s my four cents

    Later…. Have a day!

  54. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    only thing Gardner does better than Gardner is go get the ball but that’s it…Gardner is not baseball smart it’s been proven many times

  55. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    I agree my plan is probably not realistic but if by some chance it did pan out like that I think it helps in the short and long term. We add 2 young players who are entering their prime Tanaka (25 next year) Abreu (27 next year) and we still keep our first round pick. With the additions above the team could realistically win the WS next year. I like Heathcott/Austin/Ramirez (Nunez stinks) and it would hurt to lose them but I’d gladly trade them in a package for Tulo.

  56. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    Joeman,

    Nobody is arguing that Elsbury isn´t better…Just that he is way more expensive and probably not worth the contract he will get…The difference is talent doesn´t warrant the difference in price

    ———————————-
    if your better you cost more..Gardner’s turn will come when he’s a FA…we will see what teams think of him then

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Yup. & I have seen no evidence, no frank or read-between-the-lines quote that tells me they understand their own blunders.

    ======================

    Au contraire…. They have basically patted their backs and blamed it on the prospects
    ///

    primo, and who are the custodians of these prospects? ;) Yep, accountability isn’t going to come because they don’t really recognize the errors.

    If they recognized them, they’d attempt to correct them.

  58. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Joeman,

    The moment Gardner reaches free agency is the moment to cut ties with him…He will become too expensive a player for what he really is…Same goes with Elsbury…He will get something around Crawford´s money and he is 30 years old already…I know, Gardner is right there in age, but he is NOT a free agent and quiet cheap

  59. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    so Ellsbury is made of glass…Gardner is not and missed 160+ games the last two years and you want to bring Tulo here and he missed 220 games in the last 4 years…

  60. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    don’t kid yourself if they ever brought Ellsbury to NY this place would go crazy with joy

  61. randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    “This downward spiral towards mediocrity could have been prevented (at least to some degree) if they had simply been more aggressive with IFAs and done a better job drafting and developing their own.”

    j.a.pru-

    yankee management and fans who support them say there is no downward spiral. they would say it was injuries, plain and simple.

    unfortunately it’ll take more than one year of not making the playoffs to prove to yankee management and to it’s supporters that there is downward spiral. it might even take three.

    look at the red sox . they missed for three years before they pulled out of their tailspin. no way they would have taken the drastic steps they did until they failed three years in a row.

    hal and co could speed up that process if they were smart and make drastic changes that gets things going again, but they are regular billionaires who have to learn the hard way just like john henry did .
    they are not smart billionaires like warren buffet or richard branson or bill gates. what’s up with those guys not liking baseball anyway ? :)

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    It’s a shame Gardner got hurt at that critical juncture. He had, IMO, his best season in 2013.

    Better than 2010, because he became a much better hitter this year. If he can do that again, his OBP may again rise, since this year was about driving pitches he could hit.

    Next season, hopefully he can retain the hitting part of it and bring a higher level of discernment/patience to go along with a real good sense of the strike zone.

  63. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    *quite* sorry…

    Primo,

    What can I say?… No they won´t…And that´s why we won´t get any better anytime soon

  64. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    oeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    don’t kid yourself if they ever brought Ellsbury to NY this place would go crazy with joy

    ===========================

    It still doesn´t make it the right move… It would be very dumb IMO

  65. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    I hear that the RS played with their home #’s …but their is a difference between the Yankees and Red Sox fans……when the Yankees are losing the fans tend to stay away…..Red Sox fans for the most part go to the games even in lean times…as the over the 260,000 fan drop off in home games this year has shown for the NYY

  66. randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    “don’t kid yourself if they ever brought Ellsbury to NY this place would go crazy with joy”

    joeman-

    my opinion is iti would think it’s pretty stupid to pay a lot of money for a guy who is injury prone with a measly .789 lifetime OPS .

    a few years ago he wouldn’t even be an average player on the yankees. almost everyone had an OPS higher than that.

  67. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    I’d much rather sign Choo than sign Ellsbury

  68. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
    oeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    don’t kid yourself if they ever brought Ellsbury to NY this place would go crazy with joy

    ===========================

    It still doesn´t make it the right move… It would be very dumb IMO

    ——————————————–
    so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?

  69. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:37 pm
    I’d much rather sign Choo than sign Ellsbury

    ————————————
    from what I hear Choo isn’t a very good OFer

  70. Against All Odds October 16th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    The thing that really bothers me about the Yankees is how did a team with so many assets get themselves into the position that we are in now?

    ———————————–

    Bad trades
    Reaches in the draft
    Passing on IFAs
    Thinking the kids on the farm were closer than they really were.

  71. randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?”

    probably not.

    the question is why did the yankees maneuver themselves into this position where that’s what it will take to sign him at this age.

    they really should have dealt with this 3-4 years ago.

  72. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    It’s a shame Gardner got hurt at that critical juncture. He had, IMO, his best season in 2013.

    Better than 2010, because he became a much better hitter this year. If he can do that again, his OBP may again rise, since this year was about driving pitches he could hit.

    Next season, hopefully he can retain the hitting part of it and bring a higher level of discernment/patience to go along with a real good sense of the strike zone.

    =========================

    Yes he did… I like this aggressive approach much better, his swing is more leveled and at the same time showed some very smart power during the season…I think he is a much better option than Elsbury taking in to account the differenc ein price tag each players has

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    j.a.pru-

    yankee management and fans who support them say there is no downward spiral. they would say it was injuries, plain and simple.

    unfortunately it’ll take more than one year of not making the playoffs to prove to yankee management and to it’s supporters that there is downward spiral. it might even take three.

    look at the red sox . they missed for three years before they pulled out of their tailspin. no way they would have taken the drastic steps they did until they failed three years in a row.

    hal and co could speed up that process if they were smart and make drastic changes that gets things going again, but they are regular billionaires who have to learn the hard way just like john henry did .
    they are not smart billionaires like warren buffet or richard branson or bill gates. what’s up with those guys not liking baseball anyway ? :)
    ///

    randy,

    that comment you quoted was actually Giuseppe Franco’s in dialogue with me.

    Didn’t buffet act as an advisor to Alex on his contract?

    Unlike Boston, we have no one to deal that will yield much, and absent ML talent to trade, I’m expecting, now that Girardi is back, a Gary Sanchez exit in lieu of big roster bait, somewhere down the line, here. I hope I am dead wrong about that, but I do fear it.

  74. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Choo is a fine OFer with a cannon for an arm… He can play CF (like he did most of this year) but he seems to be a perfect fit for right. He would be great for the Yanks in RF.

  75. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    “so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?”

    probably not.

    the question is why did the yankees maneuver themselves into this position where that’s what it will take to sign him at this age.

    they really should have dealt with this 3-4 years ago.
    ———————-
    agree 100%…..or traded him last year

  76. Against All Odds October 16th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?

    ——————————

    8 yrs is long but it’s probably better value wise than the contract Ells will get.

  77. randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    j.a. pru-

    well it’s pretty much on record we aren’t too optimistic about 2014 and the next few years. i’m just watching to see how they handle the mess they’re in.

    i’m thinking it doesn’t help that are in denial about how things really are.

  78. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    Choo is a fine OFer with a cannon for an arm… He can play CF (like he did most of this year) but he seems to be a perfect fit for right. He would be great for the Yanks in RF.

    ————————————————
    guess I heard wrong

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    luis,

    I’ll grant that Ellsbury is a better hitter, that’s clear, but Gardner made an adjustment I really didn’t not foresee happening. That was wholly encouraging. I didn’t care about the OBP going down because that’ll be there for him when/if this 2013 version of him becomes muscle memory.

    Yes, his bat spent more time in the hitting zone than at any other time in his career, and he wasn’t rising up on his toes and creating those feeble popups. I don’t know how anyone watching cannot have noted the dramatic difference. And of course, all the XBHs were the outward sign of huge progress.

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    *did not foresee happening

  81. Tackelberry October 16th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Also heard that Choo doesn’t hit lefites all that well.

  82. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?

    =========================

    1) two completely different players…One can anchor a team the other one can´t…I mean they are not in the same vicinity talent wise

    2) Elsbury primary tool is speed, once that is gone ( and he will )…He will be another past his prime player with little to offer…Cano is a different animal, he is 100 times the hitter Elsbury is..Plays a premium position but more importantly provides power from it which happens very seldom.

    3) He will age well and probably be productive even in his late 30´s as a DH

    4) He is a Yankee

    I wouldn´t like to give Cano 8 years to be honest…I would rather give him 6 with a team option for a 7th year…But I would go 8 depending on what the team plans to do going forward…Not to mention that by signing Elsbury it implies losing the draft pick

    In short…Comparing Cano with Elsbury is like comparing a Chateau Cheval Blanc with a wine called Reunity

  83. blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    “I don´t…. Although I believe that it would make us a lot better short term…I believe vehemently on homegrown cores”

    meh….I believe in building a team that can win and sustain it for at least 3 or 4 years. I like those players mentioned in that trade sure but none of them are locks to be members of this “new core”…..there are no Mike Trouts or Manny Machados in there…..I’d drive them all to the airport myself to get Tulo……also you get to keep that 1st rounder in that plan and there is a chance to really get a member or a new core perhaps.

    “Blake…..Gardner has had injuries the last two years..don’t know about this glass thing”

    You don’t have to give Gardner a big contract to have him in 2014……thats the gigantic difference.

  84. blake October 16th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    “so is giving Cano 25 mil + for 8 years a good move at 31 years old ?”

    the answer to that question greatly depends on the owner…….will Cano be worth 25 million per year for all 8 of those years? almost certainly not…….the question that really matters is what does Hal think about it…….if he is willing to absorb the decline of Cano then cool…..sign him……if he’s going to hold it over the teams head though then that’s the problem.

  85. Against All Odds October 16th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    They were never even going to hint at trading him.

  86. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Choo is pretty awful vs lefties but he at least still draws walks.

    Career:
    Choo – .288/.389/.465/.854
    Ells – .297/.350/.439/.789

    Ellsbury has that one crazy year which seems like an anomaly really lifting his slugging while Choo has Choo has been much more consistent.

    2013:
    Choo – .285/.423/.462/.885
    Ells – .298 /.355/.426/.781

    I doubt we end up with either but I’ll take Choo given the choice.

  87. luis October 16th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    I also agree with Randy…He should have been extended two years ago until his age 36 season…Or traded last season with an agreement to bring him back this season thru Free Agency, like the Phillies did with Lee…that way, we get talent to shorten up the diown period and on top of it we get our 2B back…Win-win

  88. luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    You don’t have to give Gardner a big contract to have him in 2014……thats the gigantic difference.

    ________________

    This….

    Blake,

    On your meh… I understand, but no Yankee dynasty has ever won squat without a home grown core… Also I understand this are different times, but the Dodgers do have a nice homegrown core to go along his complimentary FA´s and trades…That´s the Yankee way

  89. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Choo is a lot better than Ellsbury and I’d much rather sign him if they were going to lose the draft pick……Choo vs RHP is basically like adding another Cano to the lineup……he doesn’t hit lefties as well as Cano does but he destroys RHP

  90. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    “On your meh… I understand, but no Yankee dynasty has ever won squat without a home grown core… ”

    true but the backbone of the dynasty yankees is so very rare…..that’s once in lifetime stuff if not longer. You can’t just snap your fingers and have a group like that or even one close.

  91. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Choo isn’t going to be cheap…

  92. luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    I know Blake…But I do believe with the right drafting approach, one or two down seasons, and a good development program in place you can have it…That wouldn´t give us 3 or 4 years but probably a decade of dominance..But again, i do understand where you are coming from

    Please excuse all my orthografic mistakes…I am typing from my office computer…No spell check

  93. luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    primo,

    He did very well…Still, I think the moment he becomes expensive is probably the time to cut ties with him…I just don`t think he will be a core player…A step down certainly..

  94. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
    Choo is a lot better than Ellsbury and I’d much rather sign him if they were going to lose the draft pick……Choo vs RHP is basically like adding another Cano to the lineup……he doesn’t hit lefties as well as Cano does but he destroys RHP

    —————————————————-
    Choo isn’t a lot better than Ellsbury compare their stats from 2007(when Ellsbury came into the majors).. till present Choo has played 38 more games that made of glass Ellsbury

  95. luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Choo – .288/.389/.465/.854
    Ells – .297/.350/.439/.789

    =============================

    take out Elsbury´s outlier season of 2011…and the difference is even greater..

  96. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
    Choo – .288/.389/.465/.854
    Ells – .297/.350/.439/.789

    =============================

    take out Elsbury´s outlier season of 2011…and the difference is even greater..

    ——————————————-
    that’s like saying take out Choo’s best year..

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    randy l. October 16th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    j.a. pru-

    well it’s pretty much on record we aren’t too optimistic about 2014 and the next few years. i’m just watching to see how they handle the mess they’re in.

    i’m thinking it doesn’t help that are in denial about how things really are.
    ///

    They seem to be a rather deadly combination of arrogance and poor evaluative talents, from Levine to Cashman.

    I don’t know where Gene Michael fits in all of this; maybe he is content to sit in the sun in Trenton and trade stories with old scouts – if so, he’s earned that, I suppose. But whenever Cashman repeats that homey little “I learned at Stick’s knee” meme, I find myself wondering what the hell is he talking about. I can’t recall Stick favoring back-leg, all-or-nothing swingers who can’t work a BB.

    They really need to find or develop some mid-order talent. The former seems unlikely, since they pass on highly visible “ML-ready” IFAs and don’t have enough to trade for anyone young and good.

    That leaves development, which means waiting. They’re not good at either waiting or being patient with youngsters, and wouldn’t you know it, but our best “close to majors” hitter (by far, in terms of hit tool and serious pop) is a “project” of a catcher.

    That, given Girardi’s re-signing and Cashman’s Mike Fast infatuation, doesn’t bode well for getting that illusive, talented young hitter into the lineup by 2015.

  98. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    “Choo isn’t a lot better than Ellsbury compare their stats from 2007(when Ellsbury came into the majors).. till present Choo has played 38 more games that made of glass Ellsbury”

    ok lets.

    Choo: .290/ .392/.468/.860 137 OPS+
    Ellsbury: .297/.350/.439/.789 108 OPS+

    that’s since 2007…..against it’s not really close. Choo is a much better hitter than Ellsbury.

    Ellsbury has OPS’d over .800 exactly 1 time and that was his big year which skews the rest of his numbers……Choo has OPS’d over .800 5 times in the last 6 years.

  99. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    “that’s like saying take out Choo’s best year..”

    no it’s not…..he’s had multiple good years…..again he’s OPS’d over .800 in 5 of the last 6 seasons……including .885 this year to Ellsbury’s .781.

  100. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Choo’s OPS + since 2007 is actually 10 points higher than Robinson Cano’s

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    luis October 16th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    primo,

    He did very well…Still, I think the moment he becomes expensive is probably the time to cut ties with him…I just don`t think he will be a core player…A step down certainly..
    ///

    Sorry primo, I was editing a long and difficult piece.

    Oh, I agree. He’s also 30 years old in 2014. We have to hope Williams or Heathcott can make strides, or that Ravel Santana’s ankle is sound and that he can fulfill some of that enormous, raw potential. He’s regarded as the first genuine five-tool player in the system.

    (I would argue that Feliz could be that guy, too, if he can develop more power and come back from hip surgery; the “knock” on Feliz is that he is too bashful on the bases, and too cerebral about his game. All I know is, that is one loud talent I saw down in Lakewood.)

    For the present push, though, I was more than happy with what Gardner gave us at the plate last year. Hopefully, it was not an aberrant year and he can build on it, at least for another year or so.

  102. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    so if Choo is a lot better player why will Ellsbury get the bigger contract

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    primo, when I say Feliz can “be that guy, too”, I refer to “five-tool” label, and not CF. Feliz is an infielder, just to clarify. (He could probably play a good OF, though; really good athlete).

  104. Duh Innings II October 16th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    The Yanks should sign Howell AND re-sign Logan for two premier lefty relievers who are still babies age-wise for lefty relievers.

    Robertson/Kelley/Logan/Howell/Warren/Phelps/TBD.

  105. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    “so if Choo is a lot better player why will Ellsbury get the bigger contract”

    I don’t think he will…..but Choo is undervalued on the market by a lot of folks.

  106. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
    “so if Choo is a lot better player why will Ellsbury get the bigger contract”

    I don’t think he will…..but Choo is undervalued on the market by a lot of folks.

    ————————————-
    it will happen……

  107. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    according to reports Ellsbury is looking at 7/142 …..Choo 6/100 +

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Choo would be murder in our park and I’m all for signing him.

    Of course, they won’t spend the money.

    And a “hell, no!” for Choo as Robi replacement.

  109. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    don’t remember.. is it true the Yankees offered Cano 7/170 in the spring

  110. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Ells getting 7 years $142M?

    I don’t think there is a chance he sees that

  111. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    “according to reports Ellsbury is looking at 7/142 …..Choo 6/100 +”

    Cano asked for 300 million…..I bet they actually sign for very similar money but Choo is a better player IMO

  112. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I think Choo gets around that 6/100 mark and I think Ellsbury gets a similar deal maybe…..however he could wind up in Bourn territory…..fragile speed guys don’t age well usually….once the speed is gone there is nothing left. Choo is a better pure hitter and gets on base a lot more so that’s the guy most smart GM’s would rather sign at their ages.

  113. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    The screw the budget 2014 Yankees

    Gardy – CF
    Jeter – 3B
    Cano – 2B
    Tulo – SS
    Choo – RF
    Tex – 1B
    Abreu – DH
    McCann – C
    Soriano – LF

    CC/Kuroda/Nova/Tanaka/Pineda

    That team would do some serious serious business.

  114. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    Boras says himself Ellsbury wants Crawford $$$$$…..he also has Choo and his price for him is much lower…all from the mouth of Boras

  115. blake October 16th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    joeman says:
    October 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm
    Boras says himself Ellsbury wants Crawford $$$$$…..he also has Choo and his price for him is much lower…all from the mouth of Boras

    Yea that Crawford deal looks great

  116. pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Boras says himself Ellsbury wants Crawford $$$$$
    —————————————
    And I want my GF to grow DD’s overnight, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

  117. joeman October 16th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    pkyankfan69 October 16th, 2013 at 4:47 pm
    Boras says himself Ellsbury wants Crawford $$$$$
    —————————————
    And I want my GF to grow DD’s overnight, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen
    ——————————————————
    How true

  118. J. Alfred Prufrock October 16th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Busy working, but if the crux of the debate is Ellsbury or Choo (mind you, not to replace Cano: that will not be sanctioned here), you want Choo.

    Be nice to have a gun in RF, too. (Ichiro, pushing 40, doesn’t count).

  119. Hankflorida October 16th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    This is no longer “The Boss’s team, its Hal’s, and he will not spend the funds necessary to make dreams a reality.

    Big Al, you are right and many Yankee fans have that pipe dream that he will. I was trying to figure out how Hal could go into next year and keep under the cap and still have some pop in his line up. Granderson and Reynolds could give him the long ball and not balloon his payroll, and he has Soriano at a descent rate. It is much easier to field a team of punch hitters like Suzuki and Gardener and never threaten the cap, but unfortunately, the Stadium was built for “The Bronx Bombers.”

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