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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Winter is coming

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 31, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

World Series Cardinals Red Sox Baseball

Because I know my audience, I tried to find the most distant and least exciting World Series championship picture available. The one above is the best — worst? — I could do.

So, the Red Sox have won the World Series. It’s their third one in the past 10 years. With that done, it’s time to move on.

Welcome to the real offseason, with the post-Series schedule finally in place. Here are a few of the things happening in the next few days.

Today
Eligible players become free agents
For the Yankees, that means a 13 players who were on the 40-man: Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Hiroki Kuroda, Boone Logan, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, Robinson Cano, Lyle Overbay, Mark Reynolds, Brendan Ryan, Kevin Youkilis, Curtis Granderson and Travis Hafner. Of those 13, we already know Rivera and Pettitte will certainly not be back.

Monday
Last day to make qualifying offers (and players have to come off the 60-day DL)
In the short term, the disabled list thing doesn’t matter much because the Yankees are going to open more than enough roster spots when guys become free agents. As for qualifying offers, the Yankees seem likely to give them to Cano, Granderson and Kuroda. When the season started, it seemed possible Hughes could get one. That now seems extremely unlikely.

Tuesday
Free agents may sign with any team
The exclusive negotiating window closes six days after the World Series, which means the Yankees have less than a week before every other team gets to take a shot at Cano. I suppose there’s a chance negotiations could take off in the next few days, but it seems far more likely that Cano will ultimately test the open market before signing anywhere. Not sure the Yankees have another free agent who they might go after aggressively these next few days.

Next Monday (Nov. 11)
Last day for players to accept qualifying offers
Cano’s not going to accept, we already know that. And it doesn’t seem likely Kuroda will accept, because he probably won’t have much trouble getting a one-year, $14-million deal on the open market. The interesting one is Granderson, who could try to reset his free agent value with this sort of substantial one-year deal. My guess is that Granderson will decline, but there’s at least a chance he’ll accept.

Associated Press photo

Comments

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172 Responses to “Winter is coming”

  1. mick October 31st, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Good headline and lead Chad.

  2. AAA October 31st, 2013 at 9:10 am

    No way Granderson doesn’t decline IMO. He’s heading into his Age 33 season and still offers a lot offensively and defensively to a team. Someone’s going to offer him at least 3 years at good money and quite likely more.

  3. Doreen October 31st, 2013 at 9:10 am

    blake -

    But you have to admit the players the Red Sox got outperformed what they were projected to. I mean, not that it means much, but there was a reason they were not picked to go as far as they went.

    Sometimes, you have a season where everything clicks. 2009 for the Yankees was such a season. I also think that once Uehara showed himself to be having a magical season, that played into the confidence factor for the Red Sox. They knew any late lead they had would be protected. Can’t underestimate that. The Yankees had it for years with Mo. What was their record at Fenway? It seems like they didn’t lose very many there….

  4. Bret The Hitman October 31st, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Blake,

    I finally ate at Tupelo Honey in downtown Asheville last night. I had the crab omelet with asparagus and nearly fainted. Then we went to see Robert Reich’s documentary Inequality for All in the Theatre of Performing Arts. We’re wanting to go wine tasting. Do you have any recommendations?

  5. JobaTipsHisCap October 31st, 2013 at 9:14 am

    good I didn’t watch last night’s game at all, totally probably 5 seconds.
    Like I said many times, people need to drill ortiz to make him cool down. Yanks fail pathetically, and constantly on it.
    I bet you next season sux will continue to hit yankee batters and Yanks won’t do a thing about it.

  6. Doreen October 31st, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Also, 189 seems miserly compared to what they’ve spent in the past, but it is still maximum before the LT sets in, so it’s not a small budget. It is more than what about 27 other teams will spend.

    As others have said, it’s not so much the 189 but the constraints the existing contracts have on getting there and still being able to fill out the roster with quality players.

    We’ll see….

    It’s baseball, nothing is impossible, you can’t predict it. Congratulations to the WS winning Toronto Blue Jays!!! ha ha ha. :(

  7. 4TrainNorth October 31st, 2013 at 9:21 am

    It’s a Big Papi lovefest wherever he goes–he’s bff with half the guys on every other team. So it’s no wonder he doesn’t get drilled.

  8. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Good Morning.

    I’ve rolled up my sleeves and I’m ready to get to work building a Team.

    I agree with anyone who says that we should take a long hard look in the mirror before we go off blaming others.

    So who has a plan ?

    :)

  9. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 9:30 am

    86w183-

    they also resurrected lester and buccholz.

    i remember when hughes was a match to buccholz.

    why do ours go down hill and theirs get better?

    i think if you put farrel on the yankees as a pitching coach and put roshchild on the red sox we would see a very different scenario.

    farrel is a really good pitching coach. he’s also a leader.

    rothschild is a good soldier, but the yankees need a pitching coach who can take charge and bring out the best in pitchers.

    look at burnett. when the yankees finally do eat a major contract , the guy leaves and leads another team to the playoffs. what’s up with that?

  10. Bret The Hitman October 31st, 2013 at 9:34 am

    I’ll say it again. If I could add one Red Sox to the Yankees and subtract one Yankee and add him to the Red Sox, I would add Ortiz and subtract Arod.

    That one single move would completely change the look of these rivals and perhaps even alter the course of history.

  11. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 9:34 am

    “So who has a plan ?”

    i plan on rocking the boat whenever i can to dump hal and co into some icy cold water to make them snap out of it.

    do they even have one competitive bone in their body ?

  12. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Randy-

    I agree on LR.

    I was hoping they would not renew his contract. I have soured on him.

    Scott Aldred has a good rep.

    I’ve read some of what he has to say about Pitching and I have to say I like his approach.

    He doesn’t believe in a one size fits all. He believes in treating each pitcher as an individual.

    His approach is to maximize their natural strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.

    Anyway, it seems all we are seeing are minor changes so far.

    Not an indication that they get the message. And that they understand how much change is needed.

  13. Bret The Hitman October 31st, 2013 at 9:35 am

    It is obvious God loves Ortiz and hates Arod.

  14. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Big Sloppy is a fantastic self-promoter.

    He really knows how to grease people.

  15. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:43 am

    The Yankees need to do what Blake has suggested all along.

    Pick a lane and stick to it.

    Don’t get caught runnin’ down the center of the road again.

    ;)

  16. 4TrainNorth October 31st, 2013 at 9:43 am

    It’s obvious that baseball, with all its stupid statistics–like UZR, which makes PD look like a better second baseman than Cano–hasn’t done enough psychological analysis of players. The Sox won because that went after a lot of so-called character guys. Everyone’s using the word “clicked,” and this is why they clicked. And it wins games. The Yankees hardly clicked at all this year–tell me, who are our “character” guys? (We’ve got plenty of corporate characters.)

  17. AAA October 31st, 2013 at 9:43 am

    I bet you next season sux will continue to hit yankee batters and Yanks won’t do a thing about it.

    ===========================

    FWIW, in the 19 games between the two clubs this year, both teams had 12 HBP’s.

  18. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Bret-

    I’m on the Garden of Life stuff.

    :)

  19. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:46 am

    I don’t care what the Sux do.

    Only what we do.

    If we become better than they are we deprive them of victory.

    We can’t pull them down only pull ourselves up.

    ;)

  20. mick October 31st, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Yankee fans should stop looking at the RS the way they used to look at us.
    Look at them as an equal and go from there.
    Perhaps this is why I don’t feel the pain I used to when they won in 04 and 07.
    Every drought they had is over. Finally winning one at home did that last night.
    Put the past in the rear view and get on with rebuilding our team, don’t dwell on America’s darling as that is a sham.
    Their win last night is the same as a win by any other team other than us.

  21. 4TrainNorth October 31st, 2013 at 9:48 am

    The character guys also tend to be natural leaders. Jeter used to be a leader, but he seems over it to me. If he wants to lead, he can start by relinquishing his current position.

  22. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Kuroda
    Tanaka
    Cano/Phillips
    Jhonny P./Headley
    AJ P./McCann/Ruiz
    Castro (?)
    The Korean Closer

    Strengthen as many weaknesses as possible.

    Do not surrender that draft pick if possible.

  23. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:53 am

    We’ve got work to do.

    Let’s get at it.

    Roll up your sleeves and get to it.

  24. mick October 31st, 2013 at 9:55 am

    The Yanks would do themselves a favor and get some character guys too.
    After they get a thumper or 2 of course.
    It’s no wonder so many love the sox for their anti-yankee image.
    They were a team that was having fun this year and it showed.
    But they also had thumpers like ortiz, napoli , pedroia, gomes in that ballpark.

  25. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Our Farm has one more year to produce.

    After that it’s back to business as usual.

    ;)

  26. blake October 31st, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Brett ,
    The only place I have ever done any wine tasting in Asheville is at biltmore and it’s pretty good…..glad you liked Tupelo …

  27. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Mick-

    If Cano happens to depart Brandon Phillips is such a Man.

    ;)

  28. blake October 31st, 2013 at 9:57 am

    But you have to admit the players the Red Sox got outperformed what they were projected to. I mean, not that it means much, but there was a reason they were not picked to go as far as they went.”

    Yep….I thought they’d be a lot better than folks were saying preseason but didn’t really see them being a title team. They had a bunch of guys bounce back all at the same time

  29. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 9:58 am

    “She’s as sweet as Tupelo honey. An Angel of the 1st degree.”

  30. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am

    The Yankees need to hire Mikhail Gorbachev so they can do a “Perestroika”.

    They could use some “Glasnost” too.

    ;)

  31. blake October 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am

    If Cano leaves if rather just try to sign Infante than trade for Phillips

  32. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Yankee fans need to make an adjustment in their thinking just as RS fans have .
    You can see the smugness in their fans as they now expect to win.
    They seemed a bit subdued, for them, last night.
    Nothing like when they were perennial losers.
    Yankee fans have had their expectations lowered a bit since 2000 and are an easy target for RS fans at this point.
    Time to have some humility , swallow your pride and get on with rebuilding.
    Of course that is out of our hands, the rebuilding part that is.
    Let’s hope they know what they are doing…

  33. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Blake-

    Mick was talking about high character guys.

    Few are more than Phillips.

    And he is a slick a fielder as you will ever see.

    And he also hits and is a leader.

    Infante is a good choice but he is way more ordinary.

  34. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:02 am

    If Cano happens to depart Brandon Phillips is such a Man.
    =============
    How so MTU?

  35. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:04 am

    They once went after the character guy named Tony Womack.
    Hard to judge some players till they play for you..

  36. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Absolutely Mick.

    The soul searching needs to happen from the top down.

    We can do little.

    I agree. I hope they know what they are doing and what is needed.

    I definitely have my doubts but the possibilities do abound.

    So we will see.

    ;)

  37. blake October 31st, 2013 at 10:05 am

    MTU,
    I do like Philkips a lot for the reasons you say…..can’t imagine the Reds would give him away cheap the though

  38. Doreen October 31st, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Phillips also has some personality…

  39. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:06 am

    I think the Yanks know already whether Cano is returning or not.

  40. Doreen October 31st, 2013 at 10:07 am

    The Yankees do go after high character guys. Good clubhouse guys, guys who are on board with however they need to be used.

    Character was not the problem. Performance was.

  41. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Mick-

    See my post to Blake at 10:02.

    I’ve seen Phillips play and heard him speak. He is a terrific dude.

    He lights up a clubhouse and is a leader.

    Always positive and determined no matter the situation.

    If Cano goes I’d love to have him. He won’t even cost a draft pick. He’s a trade.

    Rumors are that the Reds would consider moving him.

  42. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Doreen-

    I don’t think Phillips would be overly expensive in prospects.

    He’s thirty two and owed money.

    They cannot demand a King’s ransom under those circumstances.

    He’s the perfect Cano replacement in my book.

  43. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:10 am

    You put Ryan or Drew at SS and pair them w Phillips and you have one dynamite up-the-middle combo.

    Incredible D.

  44. Doreen October 31st, 2013 at 10:11 am

    MTU -

    I could get on board with that. I get a little nervous about which prospects exactly it might take, but….

  45. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:11 am

    As good as anyone’s.

  46. 4TrainNorth October 31st, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Brandon Phillips would be like Jamie Foxx in Django Unchained.

  47. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Rumors are that the Reds would consider moving him.
    ==============
    Moreso than any other team, no team is giving us anything.
    They know we are desperate.
    If Hal is a tightwad, then I doubt he would allow them to be robbed in a deal
    just like I think he will try to make his plan work to cut back on long term, over the top, deals.
    It will tell us much about Cano if he goes somewhere for an extra year or 2 and a few million.
    If he does , it tells you a lot about him.

  48. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Doreen-

    I don’t think it would be all that difficult to match up.

    And I don’t even think it would take our 1st tier guys.

    Cincy needs help in a number of areas.

    Maybe they would even trade us Chapman.

    :)

  49. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 10:13 am

    mtu-

    with some quick checking,the difference between john farrel and scott aldred one difference is that aldred was a really bad mlb pitcher

    aldred- 6.02 era
    farrel- 4.56 era

    also farrel was on teams with bud black, ron washinton,tony pena,hershiser,neil allen,terry francona,etc

    farrel won 14 games on a team that ron washington and francona played on a lot.
    francona thought so much of him he made him his pitching coach.
    http://www.baseball-reference……/1988.shtm

    there is a pedigree there, a background with some depth.

    aldred?

    not so much

  50. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:14 am

    I like the idea of knowing that Phillips is out there.

    So if Robinson splits we have a decent replacement to seek.

  51. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Randy-

    I appreciate you doing that but I still think Aldred is the Man.

    Or possibly Patterson.

    Moot point thought since LR is going to be around for a while.

    He’s the Pitching equivalent of the big hairy approach.

  52. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Phillips has 4/50 left.
    His #’s look real good, gets a lot of hits with some pop.
    They would want Phelps and more prospects for him.
    Tough call…

  53. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:18 am

    And sometimes those who have the most problems are the best teachers.

    They know 1st hand all the things that can go wrong and how to fix them.

    ;)

  54. ronDL white October 31st, 2013 at 10:20 am

    The Red Sox treated Ortiz like crap, he then quit on them last year when their season was looking bleak. We’ve had numerous opportunities to steal him away from the Red Sox, which essentially would have made their world series win unlikely. But we chose to sit on our hands and stare at the sky, hoping for things to get better with the likes of Chris Stewart, Phil Hughes, etc.

  55. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Mick-

    Not a tough at all if Cano departs FWIS.

    He would fit in seamlessly.

    I really like Phelps but for that he is probably expendable.

    Warren has just as much potential.

  56. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Catcher preferences :

    AJ P./Ruiz/McCann.

    In that order.

  57. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Ortiz has 1 year left at 15m b/c he had an injury free option year this year.
    He will be 39 in 2015 and a 2-3 year deal here might not be out of the question.

  58. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:23 am

    SS/3B preferences :

    Castro, Jhonny P, Ryan, Drew.

    In that order.

  59. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:25 am

    I do not ever want to see Big Sloppy in PS.

    I feel the same way in regards to that as I did Ramirez.

    Never. No how.

    It was hard enough to take Pukelis.

  60. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:25 am

    MTU

    Don’t think Phelps would be the centerpiece for Phillips.
    They need pitching and would ask for Nova.
    Maybe Banuelos, JRam, others?
    Other than Sanchez are any prospects untouchable

  61. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:26 am

    It was hard enough to take Pukelis.
    ================
    Boggs, Damon and Clemens worked out.
    Not to mention Ruth.

  62. pkyankfan69 October 31st, 2013 at 10:28 am

    I like the Game of Thrones reference with the title… Hopefully we sign a few white walkers to dismember opposing teams.

  63. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 10:28 am

    “I appreciate you doing that but I still think Aldred is the Man.”

    mtu-

    devils advocate

    why?

  64. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Mick-

    They can demand Nova all they want for Phillips.

    That’s a non-starter.

    Same with the top pitching prospects like Banuelos and J-Ram.

    Phillips isn’t worth that considering his age and contract.

    Remember we are taking on 50 Mil. for a 32 y.o.

    I’d surrender phelps, marshall, or warren + for him but that is it.

  65. ronDL white October 31st, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Why wouldnt you want Ortiz on this team? We might have won a couple more championships over thepast few years. Since our ousting from the playoffs each year is due to our offense turning into a black hole. Either way, addition by subtraction (from the Red Sox).

    Instead, we have laughing hyenas like Nick Swisher who dont take the game seriously. It’s all fun and games.

  66. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:30 am

    I’d surrender phelps, marshall, or warren + for him but that is it.
    ===================
    it smells of tony womack…

  67. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:33 am

    What is a character guy anyway?
    Guys who are not good enough to be called stars but play roles.
    That has always been hit or miss with us.
    Damon was a character guy but he could hit, under pressure.
    Swisher was not.

  68. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 10:33 am

    “And sometimes those who have the most problems are the best teachers.

    They know 1st hand all the things that can go wrong and how to fix them.”

    farrel had serious arm injuries that cut short a pretty good pitcher.

    i think he had his problems.

    but seriously, aldred has no pedigree that i can see.

    i’ll look more, but at first glance he looks like a journeyman guy who was always around losing teams,had no success himself, and now he’s had four years of producing not much for the yankees.

    i say we look real hard at who we have doing the coaching.
    if aldred passes that scurinty, great, we’ll have learned something.

    as it is i see nothing right now that tells me he’s good at what he does.

  69. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Randy-

    For example, When they sent Nova down after LR couldn’t seem to fix him.

    Who do you think likely worked w him ?

    Aldred and/or Patterson.

    When he returned he was a different pitcher.

    Where his strengths were maximized and weaknesses minimized.

    Has Aldred’s signature written all over it.

    Remember the interview I told you about and his pitching Philosophy.

    It’s also possible that Patterson had a big hand in it. Or that they worked jointly to fix him.

    Whatever the case may be I liked the result.

    There are other items but I don’t want to go into that much detail now.

    That is a very illustrative example of why I’d like to see one of the 2.

  70. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Didn’t LR just get an extension?

  71. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:37 am

    I wouldn’t want Sloppy because I just plain don’t like him. He’s a cheat and a self-promoter.

    It has nothing to do with his hitting ability.

  72. ronDL white October 31st, 2013 at 10:37 am

    You want guys that lead by example. Everything was a big joke to Swisher. There is a difference between having fun and being an inept hyena. Swisher is the latter. If he took the game seriously (and roided up) like Ortiz, he could be a great player.

  73. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:37 am

    I’d surrender phelps, marshall, or warren
    =====================
    I doubt that gets him here.

  74. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:39 am

    randy-

    All I can say is that I think you are very wrong about Aldred.

    A lot of our young Pitchers really like him.

    And he has been able to fix some that LR and others couldn’t seem to help.

    I won’t take it any further.

  75. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Even at their advanced ages Yankee FO would salivate about the idea of an order with Jeter, Ortiz and Arod in it.

  76. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Mick-

    He did. That’s why I said to Randy that it was a moot point.

    If that doesn’t get Phillips then that’s too bad because I don’t surrender a potential #2 or ace for him.

    I reserve that for a much higher grade trade.

    ;)

  77. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Really tho MTU
    what would you call a fair offer for Phillips?

  78. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Could Yanks go for say a 2 year deal for Bronson Arroyo?

  79. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Mick-

    I already gave it to you.

    Phelps, Warren, or Marshall plus a top reliever like Claiborne or Whitley, and maybe one of our OF prospects like Heathcott, Flores, etc.

    That’s as far as I go. if that’s not enough then we move on. Infante is a decent alternative.

    Not as complete but good.

  80. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:48 am

    I could see the O’s going after Arroyo and another high profile FA pitcher.

  81. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:49 am

    The Yankees have a lot of work to do.

  82. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:50 am

    I already gave it to you.

    Phelps, Warren, or Marshall
    ===================
    sorry, that’s all you gave…not sure what + was.
    don’t think cinci bites at that.
    we really don’t have much to offer in trades.

  83. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Mick-

    Then that’s all she rode on that front.

    You try. If it’s not good enough you move on.

    Fortunately there are other decent alternatives.

    The Yankees should not let themselves get fleeced.

    They have worked hard to build their Farm. And it might be on the verge of delivering.

    I think they have plenty to offer. But they need to keep the very best for themselves.

  84. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Does anybody think if we stock up on a bunch of 5m players that we are going anywhere without a Papi type in the order to carry us?

    This mish mash we have, and I include Soriano and Tex in there, is a bunch of singles hitters and you know how many singles you need to create a run.

  85. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:55 am

    I think they have plenty to offer. But they need to keep the very best for themselves.
    ===========================
    Why would any team want our prospects that we don’t even want.
    Does not compute.

  86. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 10:56 am

    “Remember the interview I told you about and his pitching Philosophy.”

    mtu-

    i’ll see if i can find it.

    don’t be afraid to provide links :)

  87. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 10:57 am

    The way forward:

    FA’s

    The Farm

    Trades

    That’s it. Use all 3 elements.

    Build a balanced Team. Nothing lopsided.

    get younger, faster, and more athletic.

    Do it a piece at a time, or do it quickly but do it.

  88. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:58 am

    MTU

    Sounds like it’s time for you to take a hike ;)

    I am going to.

    To my local Taco Belle, or is it Bell?

    Belle was Albert.

  89. mick October 31st, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Bronson Arroyo MTU?
    You are the pitching Guru here…

  90. mick October 31st, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Belle had a great 10 year career.
    He had over 100 rbi every yr avging 40/130.
    and he didn’t strike out.
    borderline HOFer

  91. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 11:05 am

    “All I can say is that I think you are very wrong about Aldred.

    A lot of our young Pitchers really like him.

    And he has been able to fix some that LR and others couldn’t seem to help.

    I won’t take it any further.”

    mtu-

    i’m not say i know he’s not good enough. i’m saying i don’t see anything that says he is.
    that’s a totally different thing.

    you asked if anyone has a plan today?

    my plan is to get on the coaching staff and management even more.

    i’m going to take it way further with both aldred and rothschild. if they are really that good it’ll become obvious pretty quick.

    now maybe you have an instinct and an intuition about rothschild that is dead right on. we’ll find that out if we look closer won’t we?

    and if he’s that good i’ll learn something in the process. yes nova was much better after he came up.
    lets find out exactly what was done and by whom.

    if aldred did it, and he can do it with others, we have a pitching coach.
    not wanting to take things further is part of the problem.

    taking it further is where you get down to the truth of things.
    i’d like to see jerkface weigh in on some of the stats yankee minor leaguers are putting out and where the yankees rank in pitcher development since aldred has been there.

    and i’ll be doing it myself . though someone more adept at statistical analysis like jerkface could do it about ten times faster.

  92. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Mick-

    You speak in absolutes.

    Prospects are not digital numbers IMO. Ones and zeroes. Great or terrible.

    Their value goes along a spectrum of ability.

    And just because we are willing to part with them doesn’t mean they are valueless or not worthy.

    For example, We have 4 really good young OF prospects in Heathcott, Williams, Austin, and Flores.

    We can afford to let one or two go because we have duplication.

    Not because they are bad. We cannot and should not try to keep them all.

    Same could be said for C. We have Romine, Cervelli, JR, and sanchez.

    We can afford to lose one or maybe two.

    The trick is to know which ones.

    That’s where the Yankees need to get up to speed.

    We also have a ton of Pitching. Some of which should be traded.

  93. 86w183 October 31st, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Hello again……

    If Cano leaves and the Yanks pursue Phillips I think the pkg starts with Brett Gardner. Cincy is losing Choo in all probability and needs a CF/leadoff guy in the worst way.

    Gardner, Phelps/Warren and Adams might do it.

  94. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 11:08 am

    randy-

    I believe the interview was with Norris in the Trentonian. last year.

    I’ll try to find it too.

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock October 31st, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Doreen,

    I would argue that talent was the problem. The lack of it, that is.

    MTU – Aldred is the SWB PC who worked closely with Chamberlain so successfully in his early years (which is why I have been wondering aloud in here for 4 years as to why he was never sent back to him) and he is the PC who worked so well with Nova, or at least the mentor Nova has credited with helping him on his latest MiL reconfiguring.

    The Pitching guy though you’re paraphrasing regarding not touting a one-size-fits-all model is
    The Yanks’ recently appointed new Pitching Coordinator, Gil Patterson (former promising Yankee arm and most recently a pitching coach in Oakland).

    They work together of course, and Betances
    For example seems to have benefited
    This past year from input from Aldred overseen by Patterson,’but the lengthy philosophy on pitching was Patterson’s; Yankeefem first made
    Me aware of it either posting a BA piece on Patterson referencing his ideas when in Oakland or just referencing the piece can’t remember which but I remember seeing those
    Quotes again in an interview with Patterson through either PSP or
    Another outlet and posting a link again here from a non paying site. It’s
    Easy to find no doubt but I’m out for
    Coffee on iPhone. Any way,
    Just
    Wanted
    To properly credit Patterson, because I was
    Very impressed with his mindset also and am hopeful that maybe they finally T least got
    That element in
    The
    Farm right, which would obviously go a long way and maybe impacts sooner
    Than later
    Considering the strong pitching potential we have in the system.

  96. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 11:15 am

    randy-

    Here’s one article I liked :

    http://www.mlive.com/sports/fl.....red_t.html

  97. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Thanks for the input Doreen.

    I know you know a lot about the MiLB’s.

    Same is true for YF and JAP.

    Perhaps they will chime in on Aldred and Patterson.

  98. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Mick is right.

    Time to walk the Mops.

    :)

  99. blake October 31st, 2013 at 11:23 am

    I used to get about as excited about the offseason as the actual season…..because there was always this feeling that you never knew what the Yankees woukd do but they’d try to get better.

    That feeling has been gone for a few years now…..they usually just screw around and complain about the prices…..Cashman just goes through the motions at the winter meetings because he’s been told he can’t do anything …..then they scramble to field a team in January.

    That’s been the MO the last couple of years…..if they do that this time they’ll be a last place team in 2014

  100. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 11:24 am

    You can hate the Red Sox, but you can’t deny they were the best team in MLB this season.

    That said, if the Red Sox 3rd WS in 10 years does not motivate Hal and Co. to do the right moves this off season to put the Yankees back on track to being a championship caliber team, then all hope is lost.

  101. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 11:24 am

    pete2 October 31st, 2013 at 12:40 am

    Thank you Pete Abraham! :roll:

    ********************

    “Maybe we can wash the stain and taste of shame from our mouths and minds”

    “We”? I don’t have any of that. I’m sure no other YANKEE fan has it either.

    Good bye, Ruby Tuesday

    ********************

    “Word is that the Sox will be handing out free leftover PEDs at the parade..”

    Now this is “reality speaks”. Amen, blake.

    ********************

    “if this red sox worlds series victory doesn’t motivate Hal and co to make dramatic changes in how they do business, then hal , cashman, levine, etc have no competitive fire in their bellies.

    if they take this world series by the red sox in stride they are an embarrassment to themselves, the yankees past, present, and future.

    if Hal doesn’t wake up pissed off this morning, he really needs to find another line of work.”

    I can actually agree with all of this. In addition, I am now wondering whether Hal and Hank resented their father’s modus operandi so much that they will intentionally do things their own way. I’m hoping not.

    ****************

    “if they would have lost, it would have just enabled people on this blog and in other places to keep running their mouths about bad luck, injuries , and cheating by the opposition.”

    Which would not have made those things any less accurate, by the way…

    ****************

    “i’m pissed.

    anyone else pissed off ?”

    No. Life happens. The world is much bigger than one of the least-watched World Series. No team is going to win every year anymore. Cheating will give an edge too.

  102. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 11:28 am

    “When the Yankees were winning like crazy, they could have used that as leverage to NOT give out the long term contracts, no?”

    Doreen – the whole thing turned around after the 2001 WS, as I remember. That’s when the offense hit a paltry whatever it was. If the Yankees had won, maybe everything would have been different. But it was right after that that George decided he needed Giambi and more offense, and longer-term contracts seemed to start to become the way they did business. More of an enticement I guess.

    We both know that not all players are cut out to play in the Bronx. While that used to be no big deal since the Yankees could always “bury their mistakes”, with any kind of austerity budget, it isn’t going to play out the same. I don’t know what the eventual answer is, but anyone looking for a short-term fix isn’t going to find it because the old way of doing business appears to be a thing of the past. Once the Boss died, his way of doing things seemed to have died with him. Well you don’t get new owners and expect that they are going to be the same as the old one, or expect that they are going to make wholesale changes immediately.

    There are going to be continual growing pains until they find a way of doing business that works for the team and works for them.

    Some fans will get impatient and go away. Others will wait it out.

  103. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 11:32 am

    “I believe the interview was with Norris in the Trentonian. last year.”

    mtu-

    thanks

    i’ll get going on it too.

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock October 31st, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Found it:

    Trentonian Q &A: Gil Patterson

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....erson.html

    GP: I think a couple of different ways. One, just the caring for the players on and off the field. And I’m not saying it was – it certainly was – however, we keep trying to raise the bar. I think everyone really does, every organization does, every organization and coach. They’re just trying to figure out a way to get better. For me, making sure that players know that we care about their careers on and off the field.

    Second, the knowledge of throwing mechanics. I’ve been fortunate enough to have a lot of good coaches around me that even to this day continue to help me. The evolution of the throwing programs, pitch counts, all those things I think, to some degree, formulated me into what I am and what I do.

    Then also, there’s the idea of always trying to get better, always trying to get different and new ideas and letting the players have some feedback and autonomy in decisions that we make in their careers. I think the learning curve just went from just thinking there was one way to knowing that there’s many different ways of getting input and information from lots of people before I make a decision.

    JN: With that in mind, when you’re dealing with a kid’s mechanics, is there anything you look for that’s either universally wrong or universally right?

    GP: With all the technology (available), you just go around the American and National Leagues, and even in the minor leagues, and you see so many different deliveries. And you see deliveries that you would think, ‘This guy will never get hurt,” and he breaks down. And then you see someone else who you think has no chance, and he pitches for 10 years.

    GP: I think a couple of different ways. One, just the caring for the players on and off the field. And I’m not saying it was – it certainly was – however, we keep trying to raise the bar. I think everyone really does, every organization does, every organization and coach. They’re just trying to figure out a way to get better. For me, making sure that players know that we care about their careers on and off the field.

    Second, the knowledge of throwing mechanics. I’ve been fortunate enough to have a lot of good coaches around me that even to this day continue to help me. The evolution of the throwing programs, pitch counts, all those things I think, to some degree, formulated me into what I am and what I do.

    Then also, there’s the idea of always trying to get better, always trying to get different and new ideas and letting the players have some feedback and autonomy in decisions that we make in their careers. I think the learning curve just went from just thinking there was one way to knowing that there’s many different ways of getting input and information from lots of people before I make a decision.

    JN: With that in mind, when you’re dealing with a kid’s mechanics, is there anything you look for that’s either universally wrong or universally right?

    GP: With all the technology (available), you just go around the American and National Leagues, and even in the minor leagues, and you see so many different deliveries. And you see deliveries that you would think, ‘This guy will never get hurt,” and he breaks down. And then you see someone else who you think has no chance, and he pitches for 10 years.

  105. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 11:36 am

    “That said, if the Red Sox 3rd WS in 10 years does not motivate Hal and Co. to do the right moves this off season to put the Yankees back on track to being a championship caliber team, then all hope is lost.”

    big al-

    that’s exactly right al.

    but we’ve survived bad owners before. we’ll do like an arab spring and as yankee fans get rid of him if he has no baseballs to react to the red sox.

  106. 86w183 October 31st, 2013 at 11:36 am

    I can’t imagine a treading water type off-season after the Red Sawx win it all.

    Well, I can imagine it, but I sure as hell hope we don’t see it.

    Again I would prefer a $ 140 M payroll with lots of rookies getting playing time and a somewhat painful transition as opposed to patching holes in the tires for another year.

    But I’m hoping angry management says to hell with the luxury taxes and they invest heavily in getting better. It’s not a great FA class, but Beltran, Choo, Ellsbury, Cruz, Napoli, Tanaka, Garza, McCann, Pierzinski, Peralta, Balfour would all fill needs.

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 11:38 am

    “look at burnett. when the yankees finally do eat a major contract , the guy leaves and leads another team to the playoffs. what’s up with that?”

    See: not all players cut out for pressure of playing in the Bronx.

  108. blake October 31st, 2013 at 11:38 am

    The Yankees have essentially been like the housing market was a few years back……

    In order to keep the window from the dynasty open they had to keep throwing money at it……then throwing more and more money at it.

    The natural cycle for teams typically is to be good for a period and then take a step back and regroup for awhile until they can be good again.

    The Braves and Yankees both had similar success in the late 90s and early 2000s…..the yanks won more titles but the Braves were right there with them with regards to consistently winning divisions and making the postseason etc……

    The braves went through a more natiural cycle….. When they got old they too a step back for a few years and rebuilt and now they are set up for another long run or being good.

    The Yankees just kept spending money which kept the machine going for a few more years and did get them another title…..but eventually the bubble burst and when it did there was nothing left…..a bloated payroll and no farm system.

    The yanks have 2 choices to get good again……1) is to spend a lot of money 2) is to rebuild which will take a lot longer but could end in a better and more efficient club .

    They need to decide which they want to do

  109. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 11:40 am

    mtu,

    this is a start, but we need more specifics. one thing this article shows is that aldred has been there for awhile. he has to have more to show than just nova if he did indeed fix nova.
    http://www.mlive.com/sports/fl.....red_t.html

  110. J. Alfred Prufrock October 31st, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Same is true for YF and JAP.

    Perhaps they will chime in on Aldred and Patterson.
    //

    MTU, I just did :)

    But that’s also an interesting link you provided on Aldred, which I just read. Hadn’t seen that one, thanks. Seems like there’s a nice sympathy working there and that both guys are open-minded.

    I think there’s another piece too where Patterson is more expansive about the arcane nature of pitching deliveries (which he does discuss in the Trentonian piece I posted, but deeper into the story).

    I like him. Intuitively, I like his presence at Trenton games. He sat through one with no warm coat (it was freezing, wind was whipping off the water), just kind of hunched forward, with his hand tucked under folded arms, his WS ring catching the in-and-out sunlight – but nothing else about him was glitzy or overstated – eyes zeroed in on the mound, his attention never wavering.

    We’ll see where his mentoring takes Jo-Ram, DePaula, Turley, Greene, Mitchell, et al.

    I do think Aldred might have made a difference in Joba’s fate, and therefore ours, over the last few years, because maybe certain moves don’t get made if that union is allowed to happen again…

    That 89 miL IP remains an indictment and is the epitaph, IMO, of Cashman’s whole overstated, underachieved mission statement about the farm coming to our rescue, and for much wrong-headed decision making that has brought us to where we are today.

  111. joedep October 31st, 2013 at 11:52 am

    The problem is that Boston may win it all the next 3 or 4 years. They will build up and get better. Wake up Hal?

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock October 31st, 2013 at 11:52 am

    That said, if the Red Sox 3rd WS in 10 years does not motivate Hal and Co. to do the right moves this off season to put the Yankees back on track to being a championship caliber team, then all hope is lost.
    //

    Big Al,

    I don’t see how people who make bad decisions generally suddenly gain wisdom in decision-making under big-time pressure.

    I don’t want those guys deciding anything else about the Yankees, but one’s the current owner and the other remains the GM.

    My hope is that Jo-Ram, DePaula and this next generation of arms get to the Bronx and don’t turn into relievers :)

    That Gary Sanchez doesn’t get dealt for some “No. 2″, etc.

    Until they show me that they can think creatively, that they are anything but the sorry lot that dropped the ball in 2010, and cleared a path for teams like the Red Sox to take hold of the AL East, I won’t be on the edge of my seat, waiting for mediocre minds to rally the organization, because the Boston Red Sox won a championship.

  113. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 11:53 am

    randy l. -

    There you go again, if we keep agreeing, folks will think we like each other, lol.

    I must admit, good ideas are good ideas, regardless of the source.

    I’m hoping now that Chad has put his foot down, more good posters will return.

    I seldom, if ever, watch ESPN, but one night I was looking for scores, and they’re talking about this great play made by the Pirates C, Tony Sanchez, and one guy says; “I know his uncle would be very proud of this young man.” I say to myself, I use to talk to that uncle on LoHud, before he got chased away, and I now hope he returns.

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 11:56 am

    mick October 31st, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Well said mick!

    ***************

    “They once went after the character guy named Tony Womack.
    Hard to judge some players till they play for you..”

    Well said again!

    **************

    I love Brandon Phillips.

    ************

    “You put Ryan or Drew at SS and pair them w Phillips and you have one dynamite up-the-middle combo.

    Incredible D.”

    I would LOVE to have Ryan back!!! But if that were to happen, prepare to have your keyboard shorted out all season…

    *******

    “The Red Sox treated Ortiz like crap, he then quit on them last year when their season was looking bleak. We’ve had numerous opportunities to steal him away from the Red Sox, which essentially would have made their world series win unlikely.”

    The Yankees know Ortiz is juicing. They are not stupid. They also know that juicing would stop immediately at the door of the Yankee clubhouse. Don’t delude yourself. The player you see in fenway is NOT the player you would have seen in the Bronx.

    On top of that, and as a not-so-minor aside, I still don’t think the culture of the club is ready for someone who uses the “f” word as every other noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, adverb, and preposition that comes out of is mouth. I can see the first time Ortiz walked in on a Girardi pre or postgame press conference and started talking about someone Girardi should have played in the game. Get the hell out of here. The guy is an incarnation of Barry Bonds and will eventually be ushered out in equally unceremonious fashion. Every dog has his day. Ortiz would never have “played” in the Bronx.

  115. blake October 31st, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Hal shouldn’t need the Red Sox to motivate him…..anybody that wins the AL east and wins the WS besides the Yankees should….

  116. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 11:58 am

    JAP -

    I agree, and wonder if Hal would put a baseball coach in charge of hie hotel business. I doubt it, because he’d want his business run by someone knowledgeable of the hotel business, and all the Yankees want is a quality baseball man running the every day baseball operations, and by qualified, I don’t include Cashman.

  117. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 11:58 am

    j. al.pru

    everyone should read this article. i’m liking what gil patterson says.
    he sounds like someone who knows pitching , and for an old school guy seems up on the newer metrics.

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....erson.html

    GP: Sometimes data is a very important factor when making baseball decisions. It’s shown that sliders are swung and missed at a higher rate than curveballs. However, if you have a good curveball, I’m not going to try to give you a poor slider. I think overall, the quality of the breaking pitch will determine which one you’re going to use.

  118. blake October 31st, 2013 at 11:59 am

    The Yankees need to get better players in their system and guys with less risk…..the high end guys they do have all carry risk of some sort . If they want to improve their farm system for real (and that means developing players that actually make the big leagues and not just rank highly in BA) then they have to start keeping their first round picks

  119. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    “Hal shouldn’t need the Red Sox to motivate him…..anybody that wins the AL east and wins the WS besides the Yankees should….”

    Also a very good point.

  120. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    big al-

    maybe the purpose of the bad guys is to let the good guys know that just because they disagree with each other that they still can be the good guys.

    that’s a little convoluted, but i think you know what i mean.

  121. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    blake, we’re not going to know ’til we know.

    This is no longer George’s team.

    Maybe the “win at all costs” mentality is gone. Maybe that’s a good thing.

    Maybe Jeter is right at $189 mil is more than enough to put out a championship team. Ask just about ever other team in the league.

  122. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    randy l. -

    I get your point. :)

  123. luis October 31st, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    Good morning all,

    I have had a little time to think things over, so here are a few thoughts that I have:

    1) The teams that are doing things smartly are: Dodgers, Sox, Cards, Tampa and Oakland IMO

    They have different approaches as to how to go about it:

    Dodgers: They have basically become the Yankees of old…Taking on contracts no one else would in order to get certain players… Outbidding everyone on the FA market…And a very aggressive approach in the IFA market…This model works because they have a good homegrown core in place that it is young…Much like the Yankees was in the late 90′s and
    most of the 00′s decade.

    Boston: They found a partner to dump those contracts that would have hindered their future success…Then invested heavily on the farm ( best farm system according to BA )…And asembled a very good team without compromising the long term health of the team…In fact, they played the way the Yankees used to play the game…That team was as balanced as you could build a team…As much as this pains me to say it…On top of it, they have plenty of payroll space to add to it and a good farm to keep on producing players for them.

    Cards: Did things mostly like the Sox did with a more reliance on their farm…the difference is that they knew when to cut ties with certain players and weren’t forced to dump contratcs as Boston did…their talent evaluation department is as good as anyone

    Tampa and Oakland: Rely mostly on their scouting ability and on player development since they have so very limited financial resources…Their talent evaluation is off the charts…Imagine if this teams had the financial resources the Yankees, Boston or the Dodgers have…

    The Yankees need to find a Hybrid strategy…They can’t go the Dodgers way because they don’t have a core in place… No one would take our bad contracts, so Boston’s way is not an option… And even though the Yankees could blow up the cap, i honestly don’t think that would be smart… Cards would be my choice if I have to pick one, sinceTampa’s and Oakland’s have restrains that we don’t have. What I think they need to do is invest heavily on the farm both in drafting and player development, and invest heavily on the IFA market…Then use their financial advantage to compliment the team with FA’s…This means an overhaul of the whole FO, starting with the GM…The sooner they do this the sooner we will be back on top.

    There is a lesson to be learned from this though…The farm can never be forgotten like it used to be…it needs to become a talent producing line on a consistent basis…

  124. randy l. October 31st, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    “I seldom, if ever, watch ESPN, but one night I was looking for scores, and they’re talking about this great play made by the Pirates C, Tony Sanchez, and one guy says; “I know his uncle would be very proud of this young man.” I say to myself, I use to talk to that uncle on LoHud, before he got chased away, and I now hope he returns.”

    big al-

    sj44 is right here:

    https://twitter.com/sportsJC16

    he’s on there everyday. i follow him. he follows me.

    join twitter, and make him and a whole lot of others part of your daily baseball experience.

    this blog alone doesn’t have enough info. there are times when no one is on and there are no good discussions.

    build up your twitter baseball connections and add them to this blog and you have broken free from the black hole that the blog sometimes becomes.

  125. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    “The Yankees need to find a Hybrid strategy”

    Now you’re talking. There’s no way they were going to do the young guy thing exclusively, unless they really have abandoned worrying about winning in the here and now.

  126. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    The $189M is great for just about every team in MLB, but, those teams are not shackled with the very costly, long term contracts that the Yankees are at this point in time.

    I love Cano, but, I hope the team does not repeat the same mistakes of the past and give him a contract longer than 6 years. If Cano really wants to remain a Yankee, and can learn to live on $24M a year, he’ll stay, if not, his long term contract will be another teams albatross.

  127. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    randy l. -

    Thanks for that info.

  128. luis October 31st, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    New thread guys :arrow:

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 31st, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    “The $189M is great for just about every team in MLB, but, those teams are not shackled with the very costly, long term contracts that the Yankees are at this point in time.”

    Until some of those contracts go away, you might not see a lot of the changes you hope to see, either.

  130. BIG AL October 31st, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Got to run, Y’all have a great day – Later!

  131. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Randy/JAP-

    Thanks for the help on the PC’s.

    Doreen also had something to say as well.

    Glad Contreras and Eiland are gone.

    We have upgrades now. But I do think we could have done better than LR.

    It’s good to know that Patterson and Aldred are handling things now at the MiLB level.

    I’m hoping that leads to better results.

    Now we need to do the same on the hitting side.

  132. MTU October 31st, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    When you see so many Japanese Pitchers making terrific use of the splitter it kind of makes you wonder
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    Doesn’t it ?

    ;)

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