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New Jeter deal will save money toward luxury tax (or maybe not)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 01, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

UPDATE, 2:16 p.m.: Joel Sherman is reporting what seems to make sense based on my limited understanding of the CBA: That Jeter’s contract doesn’t actually save money toward the luxury tax because the average annual value of the previous contract was artificially low to begin with. The player option was dragging it down, and the Yankees have to make up for that. I believe they also have to pay for the buyout, unless the buyout somehow technically never happened. As with all of this luxury tax stuff, it’s awfully confusing.

Derek Jeter’s new $12-million contract will actually save the Yankees some money in their attempt to get below the $189-million luxury tax threshold.

Although his player option would have kicked in at $9.5 million, the average annual value of Jeter’s previous contract was $14.5 million, and that number — not the $9.5 million — would have counted toward the luxury tax. By opting out of that contract and signing for $12 million, Jeter actually got more money but still saved the Yankees $2.5 million in average annual value.

It’s a win-win.

That said, according to one source, saving money toward the luxury tax was not the motivating factor. Jeter and team owner Hal Steinbrenner spoke directly about a new contract. Jeter’s 2014 contract option was a player option, which gave him some leverage. Jeter proposed one figure, Steinbrenner counter with another, and the two sides agreed on the new one-year, $12-million contract.

“At the end of the day, they did a deal,” a source said. “The luxury tax is just a nice benefit.”

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263 Responses to “New Jeter deal will save money toward luxury tax (or maybe not)”

  1. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Hi guys,

    this is a HUGE loss for the Yankees.

    If Jeter accepts his option, the Yankees 189 hit will be 15.5 due to his 14 AAV + 1.5 mil bonus he got for silver slugger. If he declines, the Yankees would instead take a hit of 9 million, which is 6 million that the player option decreased his AAV by the previous 3 seasons + 3 million buy out.

    I don’t know if he nullified or took the buy out on his player option, but either way this is going to cost the Yankees 21 mil in cap space.

    (i) If a Player fails to exercise or chooses to nullify a Player
    Option Year that is deemed a Guaranteed Year pursuant to Section
    E(5)(a)(ii) above, the difference between the amount paid to
    the Player under his Contract (including any Option Buyout payment)
    and the amount that has been attributed to Actual Club
    Payroll of a Club under that Contract shall be added to (or subtracted
    from) Actual Club Payroll in the Contract Year in which
    the Player Option Year falls.

  2. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Sorry all of beat writingdom is wrong again, and if they are right please show your work.

  3. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    At best, if for some reason the buy out is not paid, this costs them 2.5mm in luxury tax space more than the original option would have. At worst it costs them 5.5 more.

  4. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    I’m not sure I understand this luxury tax stuff. So if he exercises his 9.5MM option, the tax hit is over 14MM. But he declines and signs for 12MM and the tax hit is now 12MM and the Yanks save over 2MM Does that make sense to anyone?

    —–

    Nope. You and me both. I’m not a numbers guy so I need to be educated on it too.

    But, I agree, they should have tried to save a few more bucks if they are really intending on sticking to the $189M budget.

    I know it’s Jeter, but the team is more important than one player – especially when we don’t know how healthy he’s going to be next season.

  5. blake November 1st, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    “I’m not sure I understand this luxury tax stuff. So if he exercises his 9.5MM option, the tax hit is over 14MM. But he declines and signs for 12MM and the tax hit is now 12MM and the Yanks save over 2MM Does that make sense to anyone? ”

    player options are counted as guaranteed money for luxury tax.

    Jeter’s contract was for 3/51 with an 8 million dollar player option as the 4th year…..so if he had accepted it it would have made the total contract a 4/59 deal which comes out to a 14.75 AAV…..he also had some bonuses and stuff like that that would have pushed it up closer to 15.5 million in AAV for 2014.

  6. blake November 1st, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    JF are you sure that’s right because everyone seems to be seeing it the other way……it does make sense though that you’d have to decline a player option to sign a new contract

  7. blake November 1st, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Also I can’t imagine the Yankees agreeing to do this unless they were sure it’d actually save them tax money……

  8. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    What this 1yr deal tells me is that Jeet is Seriously considering hangin’ em up after 2014.

  9. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock November 1st, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Methinks I will be spending a lot of time at NYS this coming season.

    The b*stards had better do right by the Captain.

    ——

    I certainly understand that sentiment but sticking to a budget means they need to do a better job spending money wisely.

    Handing out extra cash just because doesn’t seem wise under the circumstances.

  10. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    The AAV of Jeters deal was 15+16+17+8/4 = 14. The buyout is not added to the AAV. Because player option is guaranteed, and the AAV was artificially lowed by it, the Yankees owe back taxes on the 3 prior years of the contract. If the buyout was side stepped by Jeter nullifying the deal, they will still get hit with a 6 million dollar penalty. If its not sidestepped they get hit with a 9 million dollar penalty.

  11. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Also I can’t imagine the Yankees agreeing to do this unless they were sure it’d actually save them tax money……

    I can imagine the Yankees are that dumb.

  12. BrianWilsonsBeard November 1st, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    So does this mean Jeter’s going to pull an “Andy Pettitte” and solely work with 1 year deals from now until retirement? Or is this a fluke thing because he’s coming off an injury-plagued year and the Yankees had all the leverage?

  13. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    (d) Player Option Years
    (i) If a Player fails to exercise or chooses to nullify a Player
    Option Year that is deemed a Guaranteed Year pursuant to Section
    E(5)(a)(ii) above, the difference between the amount paid to
    the Player under his Contract (including any Option Buyout payment)
    and the amount that has been attributed to Actual Club
    Payroll of a Club under that Contract shall be added to (or subtracted
    from) Actual Club Payroll in the Contract Year in which
    the Player Option Year falls.

  14. Jetrer November 1st, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Maybe he didn’t actually decline the option and this would be treated as just an extension with no buyout.
    But it seems like that would still add $6M to the $12M AAV of the new contract to make up for what would turn out to be underpayment in previous years tax.

  15. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Jerkface is right according to my reading.

  16. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Unless there is some tricky extension related stuff going on, I don’t see how this benefits them.

  17. AAA November 1st, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    If the buyout was side stepped by Jeter nullifying the deal, they will still get hit with a 6 million dollar penalty

    =================================

    And that penalty is assessed to the number for upcoming season? Or can they pay “back taxes” for those 3 years?

  18. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    I would guess Hal and Comp ran this Jeet deal and it’s $189 Mill Tax implications by MLB.

  19. Yankee Trader November 1st, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Odd, but true: Yanks save a few bucks by signing Derek to a richer contract
    November 1, 2013 by SJK NoMaas.org

    Instead of Derek Jeter exercising his player option for $9.5 million, the Yankees gave the team captain an additional $2.5 million in a one-year deal worth $12 million.

    This move will save the Yankees about $2.375 million towards the Hal-Cap™ of $189 million, even though Derek is getting more money than if he exercised his option.

    Since luxury tax levels are determined by the Average Annual Value (AAV) of a full contract, Jeter’s option of $9.5 million would have been added to his previous three years’ earnings of ~ $48 million ($48 mil + $9.5 = $57.5 million / 4 = $14.375 million AAV).

    With a new 1-year deal, the AAV is reset to only $12 million.

    This is really somewhat irrelevant though. If the Yankees want to seriously contend in 2014, they need to blow way past the $189 million anyway.
    ——————

    That last paragraph says it all!!

  20. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm e

    The AAV of Jeters deal was 15+16+17+8/4 = 14. The buyout is not added to the AAV. Because player option is guaranteed, and the AAV was artificially lowed by it, the Yankees owe back taxes on the 3 prior years of the contract. If the buyout was side stepped by Jeter nullifying the deal, they will still get hit with a 6 million dollar penalty. If its not sidestepped they get hit with a 9 million dollar penalty.

    That’s what I thought too, that the Yankees would have to make up the difference in AAV this year (because the previous three years were artificially low because of the option year). But I’ve talked to people in the organization who say otherwise, that this actually saves them money toward the luxury tax. I don’t understand how, unless the difference can be somehow paid toward the 2013 luxury tax instead of 2014, but that’s what they’re saying. And obviously several other people are hearing the same thing.

  21. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Joel Sherman ?@Joelsherman1 1m
    Way luxury tax salaries, computed Jeter would have cost $10.75M on payroll if option picked up will cost $12.8M now #Yankees

    what?

  22. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Sherman just confirmed JF.

  23. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    (ii) If the new Uniform Player’s Contract is signed during
    the championship season, it must begin with the next succeeding
    championship season and cannot modify the terms of the
    Uniform Player’s Contract covering the then current championship
    season.
    The Average Annual Value of such new Contract shall be
    increased or decreased, whichever is applicable and beginning
    with the new Contract’s first Contract Year, by the figure arrived
    at by subtracting the amount of Salary that has been attributed
    under the rules of this Article XXIII to a Club in previous Contract
    Years under the Contract that is being replaced from the
    amount that was actually paid to the Player by a Club in those
    Contract Years. If a new Contract is signed during a championship
    season to commence with the next championship season, the
    calculation called for in this paragraph (3) shall be performed at
    the end of the then current championship season. Except for the
    limited circumstances described in this paragraph (3), no Player
    may be signatory to more than one unexpired Uniform Player’s
    Contract at any time.

  24. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Jerkface, get MLB on the horn and ask them how this works differently than how we think it does. ;)

  25. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Get dunked on everyone, please.

  26. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    This is a great example of why everyone on the blog should stay away from, ‘well I think the Yankees know more about X, Y, and Z than people on a blog’-ish statements.

    Good work JF, as usual. Making up for some terrible journalism. It’s amazing how many writers don’t understand what they’re reporting before they actually report it. No offense Chad, but we’ve seen some terrible work by all parties in cases related to the CBA.

  27. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    JF,
    Sherman is saying they would have paid 10.75 in tax if he had picked up the option?

  28. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    What the Yankees are saying doesn’t jive with the rules… this is ridiculous.. does anyone in that org know what they’re doing??

    I hope they found a crazy loophole but with Sherman confirming, I don’t see one. Did the Yankees just outsmart themselves again?!

  29. jpmatrixfan88 November 1st, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Right, Jerkface. I am sure none of the suits, lawyers, and accountants the team employs knows what.they are doing but you have all of the correct info.

  30. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    I can imagine the Yankees are that dumb.

    —–

    Ditto.

  31. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Maybe it really is an extension..? But why wouldn’t that have been in the initial reports?

    Team Frustrated.

  32. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Right, Jerkface. I am sure none of the suits, lawyers, and accountants the team employs knows what.they are doing but you have all of the correct info.

    Well considering that sources in the mlb office for writers such as Mark Feinsand knew less about it than me, I think that is plausible.

    And its not hard, the CBA is public knowledge. You just read it and understand the rules. Contracts are public knowledge. Everyone knew the language of Jeter’s contract.

    The only way the Yankees save money here is if there is some chicanery going on that isn’t readily available in the CBA. Of course this is a possibility, and maybe I will have to wait a bit for someone to actually explain it.

    However at a base reading of the CBA and understanding how the payroll works, I’m definitely right.

  33. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:07 pm e

    What the Yankees are saying doesn’t jive with the rules… this is ridiculous.. does anyone in that org know what they’re doing??

    I hope they found a crazy loophole but with Sherman confirming, I don’t see one. Did the Yankees just outsmart themselves again?!

    The person I talked to made it clear that luxury tax was not the reason for re-signing this deal. Jeter decided to use his player option as leverage and got himself a new contract. That’s what it was about. It seemed that the luxury tax would be simply a happy bonus, but that might not be the case.

  34. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    An extension would not save them because they still eat the 6 million dollar penalty. Nullifying the player option doesn’t save them because they still eat the 6 million dollar penalty.

  35. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    I don’t see how Sherman’s numbers are right, either…

  36. Yankee Trader November 1st, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Salary wise, with signed contracts the Yankees are at $94,525,000 for 7 players.

    From Cots, not yet updated:

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

  37. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    If the Yankees did this thinking it’d save them AAV money on the luxury tax when the opposite was true then it’ll be a new level of incompetence……I also think it’s really funny that JF knows more about the CBA than virtually every baseball writer.

  38. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Jerkface -

    You’re saying they pay a penalty here. Could it be the penalty does not count toward the LT and is a separate payment?

    Just trying to get a handle on why two different results of this move being reported.

    Because I don’t think the Yankees mind spending money as long as it doesn’t count toward the 2014 LT in some way.

  39. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Sherman’s numbers are definitely wrong.

  40. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    You’re saying they pay a penalty here. Could it be the penalty does not count toward the LT and is a separate payment?

    No, the penalty is applied to your luxury tax payroll. Its in the luxury tax section, it is not a physical penalty. The luxury tax payroll is imaginary as we all should know, so is the penalty.

  41. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Chad – Thanks for the response.. to be honest, I’m kinda laughing my ass off that Derek had leverage after a year where he didn’t play.

  42. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Or rather, to clarify what I’m trying to say, it’s maybe not so much about the Yankees saving money overall, but making sure whatever they spend isn’t counted toward LT.

  43. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Well, if it’s a new one year contract, the rules clearly state that the Yankees underpaid for the previous 3 years and that amount gets added to the current (2014) year for payroll calcs.

    Which would mean Jeter will cost them 18 mil on the payroll. (if there was no player buyout)

  44. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    “I don’t see how Sherman’s numbers are right, either…”

    I don’t either…..none of this adds up to me…..and I don’t know why the Yankees would just volunteer to give Jeter 4 million more dollars when he really didn’t have any leverage unless they thought it was going to save them some money.

  45. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Thanks, Jerkface.

  46. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    blake, 2.5 more, his option was for 9.5, it was increased from 8 because he won a silver slugger award.

  47. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    is it possible that the luxury tax penalty could be added onto the 2013 tax as Chad mentioned ?

  48. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    They want Jeter to end his career as a Yankee. I think it’s that simple.

    And I know it shouldn’t be about one player, but that one player is Jeter.

  49. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Unless I’ve totally missed something in the CBA…

  50. tomingeorgia November 1st, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Could it not be that the parties to the original contract simply agreed to tear it up, player’s option and all, and replaced it with a new one?

  51. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    The penalty is added in the year the player option falls.

  52. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:16 pm
    is it possible that the luxury tax penalty could be added onto the 2013 tax as Chad mentioned ?

    No.

    shall be added to (or subtracted
    from) Actual Club Payroll in the Contract Year in which
    the Player Option Year falls
    .

  53. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Could it not be that the parties to the original contract simply agreed to tear it up, player’s option and all, and replaced it with a new one?

    Nullifying the contract still incurs a penalty.

  54. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    If the Yankees did this thinking it’d save them AAV money on the luxury tax when the opposite was true then it’ll be a new level of incompetence……I also think it’s really funny that JF knows more about the CBA than virtually every baseball writer.

    ——————-

    This whole thing is starting to feel like something out of This is Spinal Tap. The Yankees are becoming a parody of themselves.

  55. Yankee Trader November 1st, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Unless the Yankees decide to say to %#@* with the LT n 2014, the Jeter bump in salary and its + or – effect on the AAV for next year won’t matter, because it will be hard to field a competitive team next year with just 7 players under contract, all except Soriano, who had off years for one reason or another.

    If they are going to rebuild, just come out and tell the fans now!

  56. hardwired7 November 1st, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    I just can’t muster up the will to care about Hal’s bottom line anymore. I just want to see a good team on the field.

    Unfortunately, they’ve shaken my faith in their ability to accomplish that one singular goal.

  57. dan l November 1st, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Jeter needs to retire…he’s going to suck…he can’t field…he will not hit right handed pitching anymore either…just wasted money…Derek retire retire retire!!!!

  58. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    They want Jeter to end his career as a Yankee. I think it’s that simple.

    And I know it shouldn’t be about one player, but that one player is Jeter.

    ———-

    I have no problem with that as long as the extra cash given to Jeter doesn’t prohibit them from signing someone else.

    If it does, as Blake said, this really is a new level of front office incompetence.

  59. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    If they had a budget and they did this they are hopeless.

    I’m gonna just choose to take it as a sign that they have no budget.

  60. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Jerkface will appear on MLBtv in about 5 minutes.

  61. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Jeter’s contract and the luxury tax implications were already confirmed by Chad last year in the offseason for my pinch hitter article. So there has to be new, unknown information for the Yankees to not have just blundered preposterously.

  62. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Just reported on WFAN…Yanks saved money on LT with Jeter deal.

    Jerkface to speak after the break.

  63. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Jeter probably feels exactly the way we do about the budget, which is that it’s ridiculous for a team worth billions to penny pinch. Get that money, Derek.

    Watch, he’ll have a good year and want to play in 2015. Derek is basically the definition of ‘like a boss’ (as he just proved) so it wouldn’t surprise me.

  64. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Let the dust settle. Then we will know if the Jailhouse Lawyer has it right.

  65. tomingeorgia November 1st, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    It would not be “nullifying” anything. It would be replacing it with a new one, beneficial to both parties.

  66. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    “blake, 2.5 more, his option was for 9.5, it was increased from 8 because he won a silver slugger award.”

    which would have made his 2014 AAV 15.5 million….and based on the reports that the new AAV would be 12 that’s 3.5 million difference. Unfortunately it seems that may not be correct.

  67. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Jeter must have come in asking for 15m. He was due 9.5.
    So they met at 12.

    Who cares about the LT?

  68. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    It would not be “nullifying” anything. It would be replacing it with a new one, beneficial to both parties.

    Uh yes it would be nullifying something. Jeter is under contract. He has a players option which has 2 very strict definitions. Accepted and not accepted. If accepted he has his contract. If not accepted the Yankees owe him 3 million in a buy out.

    If the contract is torn up, the player option is nullified. And there are rules for that, as the CBA clearly states that a player declining or otherwise nullifying it will incur the penalty.

  69. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    either way……Jeter is back officially now so it’s time to move him to 3B and get a SS

  70. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    And please, do NOT be sighting Sherman as a source. That guy botched the AAV situation on Upton last season.

  71. Tar November 1st, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    I’m as big a Jeter fan as anyone. If it doesn’t benefit the luxury tax I can see no reason why theYankees did this.

  72. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    And you cannot be under 2 contracts at the same time, so there is no way the Yankees jsut signed Jeter to a new contract. Something must be done with the player option and his still intact contract.

  73. Yankee Trader November 1st, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    This article came out an hour before Jeter’s new contract was announced.

    Yankee fans should root for Jeter to decline his option
    By John Beck on Nov 1 2013, 1:00p

    http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....-hot-stove

  74. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Jeter opted out and came in with an offer which they compromised on.
    What’s so difficult?

    Am I wrong Mr Jerk?

  75. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Mike F: Yanks will be on top again.

  76. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    “I’m as big a Jeter fan as anyone. If it doesn’t benefit the luxury tax I can see no reason why theYankees did this.”

    if they thought they were saving money and actually weren’t then LOL

  77. pkyankfan69 November 1st, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    This stuff makes my brain hurt… I’m just going to ignore it until someone can tell me with certainty either way.

  78. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    I think the funnier aspect of this whole thing is that the Yankees must really feel like they took a hit in terms of public opinion if they felt Derek had this much leverage. That’s certainly not how they played their hand last time.

  79. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Either way they had to do the deal blake.
    If they take a LT hit, would they not have done it.
    It’s not why they did it.

  80. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    You know what I found suspicious from the get go? When it was reported that luxury tax savings was NOT a motivating factor in the new contract. It it weren’t an issue why even mention that. That tells me either they don’t know what the hit his or they are hiding it from us. They can say later, well Jeter was worth 12MM to us so that’s why we signed him to that contract.

  81. Tar November 1st, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    I bet it was Alex’s fault. :twisted:

  82. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    LOL

    @DannyKnoblerCBS Good job by @Joelsherman1, reporting Jeter deal was not because of luxury-tax savings. Bad job by rest of us, thinking that it was.

  83. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    wasn’t he getting 9.5 + 1.5 for silver slugger? That’s 11 for those that can’t add, he got 12 unless he gets another 1.5 on top of that.

    WHO THE F CARES!

  84. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    I would really like to talk to the actual person/people who calculate the official team payrolls.

    If anyone wants to read for themselves

    http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

    Start at page 105, section E.

  85. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Ignore whatever comes outta the mouths of Sherman and Feinsand. Feinsand is repeating Yankee Clap Trap that has been fed to him.

  86. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    The 2014 option was for 8, increased to 9.5.

  87. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Who ever said reporters know what they are talking about ?
    They got word he signed, it hit the tweets asap with no other details.
    It’s all conjecture…what else is new?

  88. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Jeter had literally no leverage here and the Yanks gave him a raise……it’s fine I mean it’s Jeter but this is the kind of stuff that is irritating when they complain about the budget and payroll…..stop bidding against yourselves. It was either that or they actually thought it’d save them AAV money……then if that turns out to be false they are all morons.

  89. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Jeter had incredible leverage? The Yankees had no leverage. Either Jeter opts in for 15.5 against the luxury tax, or he opts out and they take a 9 million dollar hit.

  90. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    If they don’t sign Jeter they take an immediate season ticket holder hit of much more than his salary.
    He could have asked for 20m.

  91. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    As I said, this signals Jeet is Seriously considering retiring after 2014.

  92. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    @Joelsherman1 @DannyKnoblerCBS thx Dan.was going to respond to all calling me an idiot, but figured would wait for all reporters to call their capologist

    I’m assuming how this whole thing happened was the Yankees released a statement saying they signed Jeter to a one year deal and it was a happy accident they saved money and no one investigated the truthiness of it.

  93. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I like this.
    It means Hal is sending the message for 2014.
    Jeter is our face and he comes 1st.
    Done.

    Next up Cano.

  94. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I don’t even know where Joel Sherman’s numbers are coming from. They make no sense.

  95. sammiejohnson November 1st, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    One possibility: It was reported that this was a deal straight between Hal & Jeter. Is it possible ownership handed out this deal without realizing the cap ramifications?

  96. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Jeter had literally no leverage here and the Yanks gave him a raise……it’s fine I mean it’s Jeter but this is the kind of stuff that is irritating when they complain about the budget and payroll…..stop bidding against yourselves. It was either that or they actually thought it’d save them AAV money……then if that turns out to be false they are all morons.

    ————————

    Based on the statement they released I think they might all be morons.

    We’ve questioned their intellect in the past but this one is really …wow…

  97. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    sammiejohnson November 1st, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    One possibility: It was reported that this was a deal straight between Hal & Jeter. Is it possible ownership handed out this deal without realizing the cap ramifications?

    —————–

    If so, that also does not bode well for the organization.

  98. Jetrer November 1st, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    If they don’t sign Jeter they take an immediate season ticket holder hit of much more than his salary.
    He could have asked for 20m.
    ——-
    And what would he do when they laughed at him?
    He wants to keep playing. He doesn’t want to play anywhere else.
    Nobody else is paying him for his past Yankees glory and giving him anywhere near that number.

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock November 1st, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock November 1st, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Methinks I will be spending a lot of time at NYS this coming season.

    The b*stards had better do right by the Captain.

    ——

    I certainly understand that sentiment but sticking to a budget means they need to do a better job spending money wisely.

    Handing out extra cash just because doesn’t seem wise under the circumstances.
    ///

    GF,

    The budget is theirs to figure out, but whatever they do, they need to stop undercutting the “product.”

    This may well be his last year. It’s unthinkable, on a certain level for me, that he can have a “last year.”

    Jeter’s the Eternal Boy of Summer, so the clock entering the scene is a rude noise, but it is ticking, and I want to see the man have a genuine shot, something real to play for.

    They have screwed around since 2010; they frittered $12M on (wait for it) Kevin f**king Youkilis last season…. Hal and his petty cash box is too prosaic a concern for me; figure it out, Big Boy and stop crying poverty.

    Just put something out there that competes, that incorporates whatever deserving youth more than a two-second attention span from the coaching staff, and that honors the New York Yankees’ status as the greatest franchise in MLB history, and its graceful captain.

    Jeter is all Yankee, Hal is some temporal, wildly inappropriate and undeserving custodian.

  100. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    why wouldn’t sherman or whomever issue the tweet with a little extra hot sauce, right or wrong.

    isn’t that today’s “journalism?”

  101. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS 32s

    turns out, yankee call on Jeter had nothing to do with luxury tax. DJ/Hal/Casey worked out today. real reason: he’s Jeter

    So HAL did this deal without realizing its impacts on the luxury tax and shot himself in the foot, good job, fearless leader.

  102. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    If I’m Cano, my price just went up. This guy didn’t even play last year and he got a raise lol.

  103. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:37 pm
    “Jeter had literally no leverage here and the Yanks gave him a raise……it’s fine I mean it’s Jeter but this is the kind of stuff that is irritating when they complain about the budget and payroll…..stop bidding against yourselves. It was either that or they actually thought it’d save them AAV money……then if that turns out to be false they are all morons”

    That’s the point. Jeter absolutely does not deserve a raise. $9.5 was a totally fair amount for a player in his position. This only makes sense if it saves the Yanks on the tax calculations. But as I said before, I don’t see how that makes sense. And I find JF’s argument to be the most compelling right now. The beat reporters need to be all over this like Woodward and Bernstein. If the FO is actually lying to Chad about this they need to be held accountable. This is every bit as important as the Arod story. It goes right to the integrity of the ownership.

  104. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    “it would have been quite easy for arod and papi to avoid having their names leaked. they could have chosen not to take peds.

    they didn’t. too bad.”

    :D

    Great point, Y’s Guy.

    ****************************

    “This stuff makes my brain hurt… I’m just going to ignore it until someone can tell me with certainty either way.”

    Can’t ditto that enough.

    I don’t understand it when one person’s explaining it, let alone when several people are at odds and attempting to explain why one or two of the others may have gotten it wrong.

  105. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Where is Mr Big = Levine? Let’s hear his explanation for another Yankee Front Office FU.

  106. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Hal is posturing for his Cano contract with that 189.
    He can always change his mind once he gets him in the fold.

  107. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS 32s

    turns out, yankee call on Jeter had nothing to do with luxury tax. DJ/Hal/Casey worked out today. real reason: he’s Jeter

    So HAL did this deal without realizing its impacts on the luxury tax and shot himself in the foot, good job, fearless leader.

    —————

    Unless Jeter gave his word that this is his last year with the club, I do not see how any good came of this.

  108. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    So everyone is patting Joel Sherman on the back after he has been wrong in the past, and he has not shown his math/reasoning for his current assertion…

    wtf?

  109. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Please note: Another deal worked out – publicly – without Cash’s involvement.

  110. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    Get dunked on everyone, please.

    ^

  111. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Sherman continues to be nothing short of a Hack.

  112. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    So everyone is patting Joel Sherman on the back after he has been wrong in the past, and he has not shown his math/reasoning for his current assertion…

    wtf?

    ————

    Joel has the benefit of getting it less wrong than anyone else right now lol..

  113. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    That’s the point. Jeter absolutely does not deserve a raise.
    ===================
    Why not?
    He’s Jeter.
    Are they gonna treat him like they did Damon and Matsui or Bernie.

    It’s the right and fair move.
    He could have asked for more but has too much class.

    He is perhaps the most beloved Yankee of all time.

  114. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Less wrong is still wrong!

  115. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Or, show us how it’s right.

  116. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Sherman continues to be nothing short of a Hack.
    ================
    Other than Chad, aren’t they all?

  117. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Beat writers: Blah blah blah
    Jerkface: What? No, you’re wrong.
    Fans: No you’re, wrong, the beat writers vis a vis the Yankees wouldnt be wrong!
    Sherman: They’re wrong! Here is the truth!
    Fans: Oh so Sherman is right that means Jerkface is right.
    Jerkface: What? NO! He’s wrong too!
    Fans: So that means you’re wrong!
    Jerkface: I’m right! Argh!
    Beat writers: Who’s on first?

  118. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    I don’t care if they pay Jeter 12, I just don’t want it counting for 18 against the cap, unless they are going to just blow off the cap.

  119. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Well so glad the 2014 season started so soon….

  120. DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    And Chad bears some responsibility here on this Blog for just tagging along.

  121. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Either Hal is even dumber than we thought or he’s planning to ditch the 189 plan .. Hoping it’s the latter

  122. hardwired7 November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    I hope Derek gave Hal a gift basket afterwards.

  123. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Less wrong is still wrong!

    ——————-

    Oh I know.. I’m just saying he’s the only popular sports journalist that didn’t get it completely wrong… JF should have more followers. Or a job in baseball. Because these guys make themselves look like amateurs.

  124. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Hal will be giving Cano his deadline next.

  125. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Jerkface doesn’t have a deadline to meet.

  126. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    I don’t know what “it” is but I see jerkface and others saying the reporters got it wrong and the Yankees got it wrong.

    I can understand reporters screwing things up. Their reported information has been incorrect on various occasions.

    I do have to say I can’t see an organization like the Yankees, with the people they employ, not understanding “it” and somehow getting “it” wrong.

    So is it possible that they have gotten it right and that what you think they should have gotten they don’t care about?

    Just asking. Again I don’t understand the fine points, and numbers always cross my eyes anyway, but I understand the concept that’s being put across and that is that the Yankees didn’t understand what they were doing, and I find that extremely hard to believe. Not because it’s the Yankees but because large organizations tend to have people in place that are paid to understand all of the fine points of the financial end of things.

  127. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    This signing is not about the LT, not about the budget. It is about keeping a legacy Yankee happy and in pinstripes to the end of his career.

    It is Jeter.

    And even if they take a little bigger of a hit on Jeter’s “portion” of the LT, they’ll make it up somewhere else.

    I think we have to step away and wait for the off-season to play out a little more.

  128. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Andrew Marchand ?@AndrewMarchand 9m
    Told player options do count toward AAV so Jeter’s former number would have been based on the four years of his contact.

    how does a national baseball writer not know this without having to phone a friend?

  129. Niblick November 1st, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Good thing the Yanks have millions to piss away by overpaying a guy who they could just have just let exercise his option.

    What now? $6 million for Stewie?

  130. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Hal is not as stupid as some here make him out to be.
    He used the LT bs against Jeter 1st.
    Now he will use it against Cano and see how much he wants to be a Yankee and all that comes with that, (hint $$$$$)

  131. AAA November 1st, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    So HAL did this deal without realizing its impacts on the luxury tax and shot himself in the foot, good job, fearless leader

    =============================

    Always the possibility he does know and is abandoning the $189M for this year.

  132. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    “Jeter had incredible leverage? The Yankees had no leverage. Either Jeter opts in for 15.5 against the luxury tax, or he opts out and they take a 9 million dollar hit.”

    according to you though doing what he did makes it worse for the Yankees so how is that leverage? They could have just done nothing and let him pick up the option

  133. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    You know I hate to tell people how to do their job but I’m going to make an exception right now.

    Now the luxury tax is not some obscure amorphous thing. It’s been reported about probably a thousand times by hundreds of reporters and blogists over the last few years as it pertains to the Yanks. A good reporter would have a ready source inside the Yanks organization to explain luxury tax implications of any and all Yanks contracts. When a story breaks like this one on Jeter, you call up your source and you get a Quote, for Attribution , on the Record.

    That’s how it used to be done when journalists practiced journalism. When you quote somebody for the record, they try not to get it wrong.

  134. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Hopefully Hal told Derek that they were going to do this but the condition is that if they feel it’s best for him to play another position then hes gotta do it no questions asked.

  135. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    Jerkface doesn’t have a deadline to meet.

    These aren’t print articles, they are tweets and blogging. Everyone is just trying to be fast rather than correct.

  136. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    If I’m Cano, my price just went up. This guy didn’t even play last year and he got a raise lol.

    —–

    It really does boggle my mind how supposedly smart business men could be so stupid.

    I just don’t want to hear any whining about the LT and Project $189M from this front office if that’s how they are going to conduct business.

    If they have decided against Project $189M then I don’t care what they do with their money. But it’s still not smart business to give someone a raise like that for the hell of it.

  137. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    trisha – The fine points matter here. All you need to know is this is the statement that came from the Yankees: “At the end of the day, they did a deal,” a source said. “The luxury tax is just a nice benefit.”

    That appears to be untrue as demonstrated by JF, Sherman, and Chad (see update above).

  138. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Oddly, this is how I thought they’d have handled his last contract…no fuss, no muss, just get it done quickly.

  139. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    trisha,

    If the Yankees were infallible they would win the World Series every season.

    They do not win the world series every season thus we can assume they are not infallible thus we can assume they could have made a mistake on this as well. According to the CBA, they screwed up. There is still a possibility there is info we do not know yet but based on what we know now, the Yankees made a mistake.

  140. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    They could have just done nothing and let him pick up the option
    ==================
    It was his option to pick up. He declined.

  141. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    blake – Marchand doesn’t spend enough time with us.

    Seriously, this place has its low points but I’ve learned more about the CBA here than anywhere else.

  142. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    according to you though doing what he did makes it worse for the Yankees so how is that leverage? They could have just done nothing and let him pick up the option

    Its still leverage because they are also taking into account PR battle vs Jeter. Jeter had leverage because he could threaten to opt out in which case they would get hit with 9 million and NO JETER. This way they atleast still have Jeter?

    The Yankees were caught between a rock and a hard place with Jeter, but we knew that 3 offseasons ago.

  143. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    These aren’t print articles, they are tweets and blogging. Everyone is just trying to be fast rather than correct.
    ================
    That makes my point, even moreso.

  144. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    “This only makes sense if it saves the Yanks on the tax calculations”

    or if it was a bone to get him to move to 3B without any fuss……the only reasons I can think of for them doing this is either that…..or they are boobs and thought they were saving money

  145. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    It helps that people like Jacksquat read and understand the CBA. No one on the beat apparently does this. So there isn’t even a Jerkface/Jacksquat equivalent that can educate his peers.

  146. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    If Jeter exercised his option, he would be paid 9.5 and counted as 15.5 against the payroll.

    If he declined and took the 3 mil buyout, he would have counted as, I think, 9 mil against the payroll and they have no Jeter.

  147. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Sorry JF we are kind of typing the same things, don’t mean to copy.

  148. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Hopefully Hal told Derek that they were going to do this but the condition is that if they feel it’s best for him to play another position then hes gotta do it no questions asked.

    —————–

    This or guaranteed retirement after the 2014 season is the only thing that makes any sense.. and even then, it’s kind of a reach IMO.

  149. blake November 1st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “That’s how it used to be done when journalists practiced journalism. When you quote somebody for the record, they try not to get it wrong.”

    all reporters do now when a story breaks is get on twitter and either repeat or re tweet what everyone else is saying.

  150. mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    But it’s still not smart business to give someone a raise like that for the hell of it.
    ===============
    Again, he is Jeter. And it wasn’t much of a raise. Nothing like the fleecing they took from Arod.
    Avoidint he bad PR, saved them plenty of money on season tickets.

  151. Wave Your Hat November 1st, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    So I guess the Yanks think Jeter is worth $12m, luxury tax or no luxury tax.

    I wonder how many other teams in baseball think Jeter is worth $12M.

  152. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Sorry JF we are kind of typing the same things, don’t mean to copy.

    No I appreciate it that you actually know what you’re talking about and we can actually discuss the CBA and make sure we’re both correct.

  153. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Again, he is Jeter. And it wasn’t much of a raise. Nothing like the fleecing they took from Arod.
    Avoidint he bad PR, saved them plenty of money on season tickets.

    This is basically what Francessa is saying today. But is retaining Jeter really going to drive season ticket sales?

  154. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Anyway, I hope they don’t structure a contract like this again.

  155. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 2:55 pm
    mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    Jerkface doesn’t have a deadline to meet.

    “These aren’t print articles, they are tweets and blogging. Everyone is just trying to be fast rather than correct.”

    That’s my point as well. This world of blogging and tweeting has destroyed journalism. But I’m certainly not the first person to say that. I think it was Henry Clay who said “I’d rather be right then President.”

  156. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    “Its still leverage because they are also taking into account PR battle vs Jeter. Jeter had leverage because he could threaten to opt out in which case they would get hit with 9 million and NO JETER. This way they atleast still have Jeter?”

    Jeter would have risked his image by opting out though…..I don’t think he would have. Honestly I think Hal and the Yankees offered this because they thought it would save them luxury tax money…….if thats the case then it’s typical

  157. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I wonder how many other teams in baseball think Jeter is worth $12M.

    zero .. point … zero

  158. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    all reporters do now when a story breaks is get on twitter and either repeat or re tweet what everyone else is saying.

    ———————

    I can understand group-think reporting… what I have more trouble understanding is how little guys that work within the sport know about the rules of that sport. It’s kinda strange.. but maybe it just seems that way to fans that eat, sleep and breathe the game.

  159. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Jeter would have risked his image by opting out though…..I don’t think he would have. Honestly I think Hal and the Yankees offered this because they thought it would save them luxury tax money…….if thats the case then it’s typical

    Given how many people on this very blog thought the Yankees should have given him 20 million a year 3 years ago I doubt he would have risked good will by opting out of a deal and asking for a 1 year deal with a raise.

    No one would have cared or known that it would secrelty hit the Yankees for 9 million on an imaginary payroll only HAL (and I) care about.

  160. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    I really hope I missed something in the CBA and the Yankees aren’t really going to have Jeter counting as 18 mil (or more) against the payroll.

  161. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    There’s nothing wrong with retaining Jeter.. or paying him more.. as long as there is no budget.

    I’m assuming now there is no budget.

    It’s either that, or Jeter just ate up a few million dollars they planned to include for a one year deal to Youk lol.

  162. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    DONNYBROOK November 1st, 2013 at 2:49 pm e

    And Chad bears some responsibility here on this Blog for just tagging along.

    —-

    I don’t think I was just tagging along. I can’t speak for everyone, but my exact process was this:

    1. I was doing the chat when the Yankees announced the deal. I was still chatting and had made no phone calls when people started reporting that the deal actually saved money on the luxury tax.
    2. I got off the chat and made two quick phone calls. The first person who answered told me exactly what I reported, that the Yankees did not make this deal as an attempt to save money toward the luxury tax, but that it did in fact save luxury tax money as “nice benefit.”
    3. I reported what I’d learned. My source is a good one, and one that I wouldn’t hesitate to use. As I wrote here in the comments, I didn’t understand how it saved money toward the luxury tax — it was explained to me by an league-office source last year that the artificially low AAV of contract like this would have to be settled eventually — but I also know that I’m far, far, far from an expert on things like contracts and the CBA. I trusted my source far more than my limited CBA understanding. My guess is that several of my co-horts did the same.

    Basically, it looks like I got it wrong, but that’s not from tagging along. I did my own reporting and found the same information several others were finding. I got it wrong by simply being wrong. A source told me one thing, I trusted the source, and it was bad information.

    This whole thing was messy for all of us covering the team. Even Joel, who was the first of the writers to report that Jeter’s deal won’t save AAV, had it wrong at first because he was hearing the exact same thing the rest of us were hearing. It’s sloppy and embarrassing, caused by a lack of confidence in our (or at least, my) understanding of the CBA, and the demand to get information out there quickly.

  163. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    I wonder how many other teams in baseball think Jeter is worth $12M.
    ===============
    Exactly. Nobody. He;s worth his most here.

  164. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    blake -

    But if the Yankees are morons, and if they are hell-bent on the 189, competitiveness be darned, then why would it be so out of the realm of possibility that Jeter didn’t want to be a part of that, necessarily, and either not play at all or sign on somewhere else? How does Jeter risk HIS image if he makes a statement saying he opted out because he was not on board with the direction the Yankees were going?

  165. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Also, this should be repeated: This is yet another contract tenured without Cashman’s involvement.

  166. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Chad,

    You need to call out Joel Sherman’s numbers. There is no way Jeter accepting his option would have counted as 10.75 for luxury tax purposes. That number makes zero sense. And 12.whatever he has it counting as now makes zero sense as well.

    Trust in my math, and my pinch hitter article. You got this.

  167. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    the demand to get information out there quickly.
    ===========
    There you go.
    Chad is an honest man. Kudos.

  168. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    “No one would have cared or known that it would secrelty hit the Yankees for 9 million on an imaginary payroll only HAL (and I) care about.”

    they would have cared if he opted out and asked for a new and bigger contract though or if things devolved as they did last time….. Jeter missed all of 2013 and Yankee fans are mad in general right now…..I doubt he would have risked it.

  169. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    It’s also worth noting — on a totally separate issue — that Jeter made $17 million last year. In one way this is a raise, in another way it’s not at all.

  170. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    I guess the people who wanted the Yankee Universe to change the subject from the A-Rod stuff today certainly got their wish.

  171. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Chad if you trust your source, that’s fine, but you need to quote them for attribution. If they refuse to be quoted for attribution, then you have to ask yourself is this really a trustworthy source.

  172. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Does anyone think Jeter and Hal were worried about the LT?
    It was prolly a 5 minute phone call between the 2.
    The LT thing is looking like a sham to negotiate with Cano.

  173. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Chad should certainly use the JF in his pocket and show up all the other reporters. Do it Chad

  174. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    The thing that bugs me the most about all this is that false reports/twits/articles are out there giving fans the wrong ideas. And then I have to argue with these fans.

  175. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    They should just sign Jeter to a lifetime contract of 10m per for PR purposes alone.

  176. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    The thing that bugs me the most about all this is that false reports/twits/articles are out there giving fans the wrong ideas.
    ====================
    Aha!
    Twitter is a sham?
    Nooooooooooo…………….

  177. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    “But if the Yankees are morons, and if they are hell-bent on the 189, competitiveness be darned, then why would it be so out of the realm of possibility that Jeter didn’t want to be a part of that, necessarily, and either not play at all or sign on somewhere else? How does Jeter risk HIS image if he makes a statement saying he opted out because he was not on board with the direction the Yankees were going?”

    Jeter isn’t just some Yankee…..he’s Joe Dimaggio…..he’s a unique case because his legacy is with the Yankees…..there is no way he’s going to another team and everybody knows that.

  178. jacksquat November 1st, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:05 pm
    Also, this should be repeated: This is yet another contract tenured without Cashman’s involvement.

    But whose fault is that, and is that a good thing?

  179. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    This is basically what Francessa is saying today. But is retaining Jeter really going to drive season ticket sales?

    ——————

    Mariano didn’t.

  180. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Blake,

    I think you are just severely underestimating Jeter’s popularity and public opinion of him. He had all the leverage in this offseason.

  181. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    But whose fault is that, and is that a good thing?

    —————-

    No idea who is at fault but it most certainly is not a good thing. This has not been a united FO. And it continues to appear that way. That is NOT good for the org. It’s not good for the team. It’s not good for us.

  182. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Jeter missed all of 2013 and Yankee fans are mad in general right now…..
    =======================
    Up until the Chad Statement a few days ago so was this blog.
    That explains everything about the one time LoHud Civil War.

  183. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Mariano didn’t.
    =============
    He is not in Jeters stratosphere.

  184. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Chad – Thank you for the summary, btw. Obviously we’re all backseat drivers here and I’m sure no one understands our frustration with the false info more than you do.

    Could you shed any light on if you believe the Yankees believed they saved money in LT dollars on this deal based on your source?

  185. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    Jeter isn’t just some Yankee…..he’s Joe Dimaggio…..
    ================================
    Mantle was more loved than DiMaggio.
    Jeter is right there if not ahead of the Mick.

  186. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    It’s also worth noting — on a totally separate issue — that Jeter made $17 million last year. In one way this is a raise, in another way it’s not at all.

    I was about to make a snarky comment about Jeter getting a raise but I looked this up as well and saw he made $17 million. All luxury tax stuff aside, technically he will be making ~30 % less in 2014 which makes sense after he was hurt all of 2013.

    Still, I doubt Jeter gets $12 million on the open market, so it’s still an overpay as far as I’m concerned.

  187. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Not having Jeter would definitely hit ticket sales at least somewhat. Who is the draw? Jeter is close to retirement, he is the last link to the dynasty years, the last one standing of the “Core Four (+Bernie).

    A winning team is the best hedge against failing ticket sales, though.

    And moves in the off-season in that direction will help.

  188. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    @DavidWaldstein 4m

    luxury tax consideration for Jeter’s new contract adds a little under $2 million extra to the payroll than if he had just picked up option.

    This jives with the option being worth 15.5 and the Yankees eating the 6 mil penalty to take a luxury tax hit of 18.

  189. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Again this isn’t rocket science. I’m sure the NFL cap is at least as complicated but specific and accurate information about NFL cap hits get reported routinely. I’m sure each NFL team designates someone inside their organization for reporters to go to to get accurate cap info. Baseball should do the same thing. If they are not, Chad and his buddies must go to their collective bosses and have them reach out to the teams or even MLB a get a protocol in place. It benefits nobody to continue to disseminate inaccurate information.

  190. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    The MLB cap is WAY easier to understand and calculate than the NFL cap because the NFL is not guaranteed, has a bunch of weird rules, and theres cap holdover and stuff year to year.

  191. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    mick November 1st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    But it’s still not smart business to give someone a raise like that for the hell of it.
    ===============
    Again, he is Jeter. And it wasn’t much of a raise. Nothing like the fleecing they took from Arod.
    Avoidint he bad PR, saved them plenty of money on season tickets.

    —–

    I don’t care if it’s Jeter. This is a multi-billion dollar corporation and one player is not more important than the team.

    Secondly, they didn’t have a budget when they signed A-Rod. Now they do (at least that’s what Hal keeps telling us).

    So if they willingly hand out extra cash for Jeter but it also prohibits them from signing someone else that can help them win ballgames then it’s an absurdly idiotic business decision.

  192. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    “trisha – The fine points matter here. All you need to know is this is the statement that came from the Yankees: “At the end of the day, they did a deal,” a source said. “The luxury tax is just a nice benefit.”

    Shame, I’m not trying to give you a hard time here. But do we know who “a source” is? And is it possible that “the source” misunderstood what has gone on?

    ***************

    Patrick, when you’re talking millions of dollars it has nothing to do with infallibility. It has to do with accountability. I personally find it hard, if not impossible to believe that someone in the Yankee organization is going to end up with an “oopsie” on this because they didn’t understand the ramifications of something that has been so talked about for the past three years.

    In any event, and even if it ends up being the case, “a source” is never something you hang your hat on. When you get a direct quote from a named source in the Yankee organization, let me know.

    *************

    I’ve thought all along that they weren’t going to be sticking to the $189 mil so if this plays into it, so it does.

    **************

    No question jerkface is great at this stuff. He always has been. I’m not mistrusting his understanding at all, I’m just not trusting that “a source” may know what he or she is talking about.

    *************

    I’m probably going to go back and read through the previous thread and this one and maybe I’ll be able to better piece some of it together for my own understanding.

  193. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Chad if you trust your source, that’s fine, but you need to quote them for attribution. If they refuse to be quoted for attribution, then you have to ask yourself is this really a trustworthy source.

    —————–

    That’s a nice ideal but just not how it works in journalism.. usually the best sources can’t be named or they’d cease to be sources (cause they’d be fired and junk). It’s an unfortunate reality of journalism.

  194. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    Hal has put Cash in the background on the Jeter deal.
    Muzzled? Like Hank?

    May be he learned a lesson from the last Jeter/Cash negotiation..

  195. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Lets talk about leverage a bit and then hit on courage and leadership.

    So the choice was this. Either no Jeter, no cash payout and $9MM cap hit, or Jeter, plus 12MM in cash payout, plus, what an $18 or 20MM cap hit (do we even know yet?) And Jeter had all the leverage?

    That’s where leadership and courage come into play.

  196. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    I don’t care if it’s Jeter. This is a multi-billion dollar corporation and one player is not more important than the team.
    =======================
    Well I and most Yankee fans do.
    We are not talking about a lot of money here and the bad PR from his last contract need not be repeated so Hal handled it himself and put his hand in his pocket and gave him the difference.

  197. louedwards November 1st, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    So let me see if my takeaway is correct.

    1) cashman wasnt involved and jeter negotiated with stein directly
    2) the “source” stated incorrect misleading information or was ignorant when he said it
    3) the cap hit is something like 21MM vs 14.5MM

    So basically jeter tricked stein into giving him 2.5MM more by possibly feeding him some bs ideas about how caps are counted? Did jeter just put himself in front of the team for a measly 2.5MM? Was the front office really that dumb to not realize they werent saving $ on the LT? Is the front office still overpaying and bidding against themselves??

    Ugh. So much fail here. Get rid of everybody (management, scouting, development) and start over. This is indicative of failure from top to bottom of the organization.

    The way clubs r locking up their stars, the only “good” free agents are the ones that suck or will come with a contract that far exceeds their prime. Seems like free agency is not a strategy to build a team, rather its to supplement it. Seeing as we dont have a damn core anymore, i would say blow everything up and start over. Its about time we stop trying to bandage things with terrible free agents and terrible contracts.

    Never thought i’d say this, but it seems like boston is run better at the moment!

  198. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Secondly, they didn’t have a budget when they signed A-Rod.
    ============
    Of course they did.

  199. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:13 pm e

    Chad – Thank you for the summary, btw. Obviously we’re all backseat drivers here and I’m sure no one understands our frustration with the false info more than you do.

    Could you shed any light on if you believe the Yankees believed they saved money in LT dollars on this deal based on your source?

    —-

    No. I don’t believe they went into this thinking they were saving money. I believe they fully understood the luxury tax implication of what they were doing.

    Like Jerkface is saying, the numbers Joel is reporting right now don’t make sense to me, but I’m also not sure whether Jeter ever opted out of the current contract — if he did, then surely the buyout money has to be accounted for — or simply did something that would count similar to a contract extension. I don’t know how that stuff would be calculated.

    As for the idea of having a contract specialist on speed dial, it’s a good point in theory, but the reality is that there’s nothing baseball people are less likely to talk about than contract figures. And to get anyone to have the patience to walk you through something like this is nearly impossible. I’ve checked with someone in the Yankees front office who is absolutely a contract guru, but I haven’t heard back. Even when I do hear back, I can’t count on getting enlightening or detailed information. That’s just the way it works with this sort of thing, which is frustrating for all of us.

  200. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    blake -

    What do we really know??? :)

    What the bottom line is they both want each other. I think this all has to be looked at through a totally neutral lens. Im sure you’re right – Jeter wouldn’t’ have gone anywhere. But I think it is important that they did this for PR purposes.

    And I also think it’s really something we should all put at arm’s length insofar as the LT goes. This is a solitary situation. I know if may affect what they do elsewhere.

    But I wouldn’t want Jeter gone this way, would anyone?

  201. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    So if they willingly hand out extra cash for Jeter but it also prohibits them from signing someone else that can help them win ballgames then it’s an absurdly idiotic business decision.
    =========================
    How much extra cash are we talking about?
    Enough to keep us away from a FA we want?
    I doubt it…

  202. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    “I think you are just severely underestimating Jeter’s popularity and public opinion of him. He had all the leverage in this offseason.”

    I don’t think he would have risked it over a couple of million dollars……

  203. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Chad if you trust your source, that’s fine, but you need to quote them for attribution. If they refuse to be quoted for attribution, then you have to ask yourself is this really a trustworthy source.

    —————–

    “That’s a nice ideal but just not how it works in journalism.. usually the best sources can’t be named or they’d cease to be sources (cause they’d be fired and junk). It’s an unfortunate reality of journalism”

    I respectfully disagree. We’re not talking about the Pentagon here and high level corruption. When newspapers and news agencies had standards editors required sources on the record before publication. Obviously we are long past that. As I said before, the NFL handles this very cleanly. A protocol just needs to be established. This should be the last time this kind of stuff happens with the luxury tax.

  204. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    but this doesn’t really change anything….2 million bucks isn’t that significant. The Yankees still have to decide if they really want to contend in 2014 ( which means blowing past the budget and signing everybody) or if they want to rebuild. They have to choose one.

    Also I’m hope this new deal with Jeter came with the condition that he’d move positions if they felt it was best for the team……they should move him to 3B and get a SS.

  205. Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    It’s not like this is the first time the Yankees made a boneheaded decision wrt the luxury tax. They have made several in the last year alone … If staying under 189 while still being competitive is the ultimate goal (which is what they have been preaching) a lot of the Yankees’ decisions can be called into question.

  206. exiledintampa November 1st, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Is there an option for 2015? if so, what is it? does this effect the tax hit?

    I’m so confused!

  207. louedwards November 1st, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Sorry i meant 18MM not 21MM

  208. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:16 pm e

    bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Chad if you trust your source, that’s fine, but you need to quote them for attribution. If they refuse to be quoted for attribution, then you have to ask yourself is this really a trustworthy source.

    —————–

    That’s a nice ideal but just not how it works in journalism.. usually the best sources can’t be named or they’d cease to be sources (cause they’d be fired and junk). It’s an unfortunate reality of journalism.

    —-

    Players hate reading quotes from unnamed scouts, because they see that as a cowardly way to rip players. But at some point, it became the universal norm that scouts would be quoted anonymously. It’s easy to understand why — reporters get a more honest evaluation that way, and teams don’t want other teams to know how they view certain players — but it’s still awkward, and players have a point when they express frustration. Problem is, it’s almost impossible to change that if you want real information. Scouts are generally doing reporters a favor. The scouts I know and talk to ofter will give me real and honest opinions, but doing so would legitimately hurt them if I used their names. So I don’t.

    It’s a similar situation when talking about contracts. That stuff gets awfully sticky, and executives and agents and whoever else might be on the inside don’t want their names used. If I tell a source who’s willing to talk to me about this — and give me the nugget about Hal being involved directly in the negotiations — that I have to use his name, chances are I’m going to be completely shut out. Might have saved me some embarrassment here, but that’s not usually the case.

  209. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    I respectfully disagree. We’re not talking about the Pentagon here and high level corruption. When newspapers and news agencies had standards editors required sources on the record before publication.

    ——————

    They do require a source (or multiple sources) but not all editors know their journalists’ sources and who they are or even how exactly they obtain their information.

    Anyway, I accept Chad’s view that he thinks the Yankees knew this would cost them more when they made the deal. That at least helps me process this a bit more easily lol.

  210. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    How much extra cash are we talking about?
    Enough to keep us away from a FA we want?
    I doubt it…

    —–

    Have you been paying attention the last couple of years? Hal seems very serious about the $189M budget and they’ve made several decisions based on money that seemed insignificant given their cash flow.

    If they have decided to scrap the $189M plan, then I agree that the extra cash doesn’t matter.

  211. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    “As for the idea of having a contract specialist on speed dial, it’s a good point in theory, but the reality is that there’s nothing baseball people are less likely to talk about than contract figures. And to get anyone to have the patience to walk you through something like this is nearly impossible. I’ve checked with someone in the Yankees front office who is absolutely a contract guru, but I haven’t heard back. Even when I do hear back, I can’t count on getting enlightening or detailed information. That’s just the way it works with this sort of thing, which is frustrating for all of us.”

    All you are saying here is that it’s hard to do your job right. It’s hard to do a lot of jobs right but we respect and reward those who do. If the Yanks aren’t being compliant, that’s why you have a boss and senior editors. They should know what’s going on. This isn’t the first time. It’s not even close to the first time. And it’s not only happening in your shop, it’s happening all over. That’s means other editors and senior media types have a similar interest in developing a protocol. Once again, this is not rocket science.

  212. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    “Players hate reading quotes from unnamed scouts, because they see that as a cowardly way to rip players.”

    annonymous scouts say the strangest things

  213. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    It’s possible the Yankees thought that if Jeter declined the option and wanted to openly negotiate that he could have commanded more than the $12 he got. They’re coming off a terrible season and the Red Sox just won the WS… they may have made the right move not to mess around with the fan base by haggling.

    I just hope it means they have no budget.

  214. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Baseball and baseball teams do not want people knowing how much money is flowing to the owners and MLB.

  215. blake November 1st, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    I do think it’s pretty crazy that most of the baseball writers understand less about the CBA than some fans do…..that’s kinda their job. They should know the important parts of it by heart by now

  216. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Thats why this stuff is so hard to pin down from them.

  217. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Have you been paying attention the last couple of years? Hal seems very serious about the $189M budget and they’ve made several decisions based on money that seemed insignificant given their cash flow.
    ================
    Just like in here…it’s all talk…words (bee gees, great underrated song).
    It’s a tool to fool cano.

  218. Russell Munson November 1st, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    I for one welcome our new Jerky overlord.

  219. mick November 1st, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    I do think it’s pretty crazy that most of the baseball writers understand less about the CBA than some fans do…..that’s kinda their job. They should know the important parts of it by heart by now
    ============
    No, they are here to entertain.

  220. stanzy November 1st, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    It doesn’t save them money overall, but it should save them money toward the cap for 2014. I.e., the tax for the prior years was now too low, because it was calculated with the option in there for 2014. So now they’ll pay back taxes to settle up for ’11, ’12, ’13, and start with a new AAV (12 mil) for 2014.

    Old: 15+16+17+9.5/4 = $14.375M AAV, 2011-2014

    New: 15+16+17/3 = $16M AAV, 2011-2013; $12M AAV, 2014

    Saves them $2.375M toward the cap in 2014, costs them back taxes on $4.875M ($1.625M per) for 2011-2013.

    At least that’s how I understand it from the many discussions of LT on here over the years. :)

  221. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Bonuses are not calculated as AAV. Its 6 million in penalty that is owed in 2014. So its 12+6 = 18 which is more than the 15.5 they would have been hit with had he accepted his option.

  222. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    There seems to be some confusion here. I’m talking about he inside stuff like what a scout says or what role the owner has in negotiations. I’m talking about the value of contracts and the impact on team salaries and luxury tax. Teams routinely report the financial details of individual contracts. MLB routinely reports on team payroll. This isn’t proprietary. Similar data is openly reported and accurately reported in all major sports. It’s time for baseball and this market to get up to speed.

  223. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    And back taxes is just an easy way to understand it, but what its really like is a taxable income adjustment. Since they aren’t actually ‘paying’ the 6 million. Its just being added on to their payroll for 2014.

    So if they end the season at 188 million luxury tax payroll. The 6 million will push them over the limit by 5. and they would then pay taxes on the 5 million.

  224. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Think of the adjustment as MLB saying, “you want to stay under the limit? Here’s 6 million in dead space, sucker.”

  225. stanzy November 1st, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    JF, not going to say I doubt you on that being true, but that sounds really unfair. An adjusted tax payment for prior years shouldn’t count toward next year’s payroll. That means they’re paying tax on the tax. Crazy if true.

  226. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    “No. I don’t believe they went into this thinking they were saving money. I believe they fully understood the luxury tax implication of what they were doing.”

    That makes a heck of a lot more sense in reality than they didn’t understand the luxury tax implication. That was a little too far-fetched for me to believe. Thanks Chad.

    *************

    bigdan22, I feel the same way you do about unnamed sources. I also understand what Chad is saying about sources not wanting to be named. But it turns into a double-edged sword because we’ve seen things floated here, with unnamed sources, that turned out to be patently false. So it is also possible that journalists, thinking that they have a handle on things and wanting to get it to press first, will refer to an unnamed source so it has more of a ring of authenticity.

    Chad – please know I’m not talking about you here!

    :)

  227. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    JF, not going to say I doubt you on that being true, but that sounds really unfair. An adjusted tax payment for prior years shouldn’t count toward next year’s payroll. That means they’re paying tax on the tax. Crazy if true.

    What? No because its not an adjusted tax payment. What happened is that Jeter’s contract was structured in a way that it hid money from the luxury tax calculations in the prior 3 years. Now that they are not eating the downside of it (jeter’s 8 mil option being ‘worth’ 14 mil) they must rectify the BENEFITS they received for the other 3 years (their 16 million being counted as 14 million) and it clearly states the difference is paid in the year of the option which is 2014.

    Sorry, bud!

  228. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    They aren’t paying tax on tax. They are potentially paying tax on payroll hidden from the system for 3 years.

  229. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Patrick November 1st, 2013 at 3:28 pm
    “It’s not like this is the first time the Yankees made a boneheaded decision wrt the luxury tax. They have made several in the last year alone … If staying under 189 while still being competitive is the ultimate goal (which is what they have been preaching) a lot of the Yankees’ decisions can be called into question.”

    You see that’s what makes getting the numbers right so important and why reporters and editors need to take this seriously and do some analysis before making inaccurate statements about the luxury tax. The Yankees have put 189 front and center. Every contract needs to be carefully evaluated with respect to 189 and reported in that context. Ownership integrity is really the overriding issue here. If the Yanks are taking an extra tax hit because of Jeter’s new contract that should be the lead.

  230. louedwards November 1st, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    How about we stop doing optouts and player options…

  231. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    bigdan22 – you’re right that they’ve put $189 front and center but they have also said that isn’t etched in stone.

  232. Doreen November 1st, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    You know, I seriously don’t see how this 189 thing is doable. And I’ve been on the “understanding” side of the issue.

    They’d have to be severely UNDER 189 to have any chance at all at STAYING under throughout the course of the season. If they go over by a skootch it throw the whole strategy out the window, as far as getting the LT to a more manageable percentage in the ensuing years (which is the whole purpose of this exercise).

  233. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 1st, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    How do we know that Cashman wasn’t involved and didn’t know anything about it? If it was made abundantly clear somewhere here I apologize for it. I haven’t been able to fine-tooth every post. Thanks.

  234. bigdan22 November 1st, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    I’ve been pretty critical here, and indirectly critical of Chad, but I do have to give him some props for the headline of this segment. As I pointed out earlier, for all the reasons relating to prior ownership conduct, the lead here is not Jeter’s new contract but the impact of the new contract on the luxury tax. Good job.

  235. louedwards November 1st, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Wait, correct me if i’m wrong but jeter opted out. So he gets a 3MM buyout plus 12MM?

    Not much of a paycut from 17MM which was an overpay anyways

  236. hardwired7 November 1st, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    In Jerkface we trust. It’s time to replace Randy Levine as president of the Yankees with a man who actually knows what the hell is going on.

    Let’s get this grassroots campaign off the ground!

  237. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Wait, correct me if i’m wrong but jeter opted out. So he gets a 3MM buyout plus 12MM?

    Not much of a paycut from 17MM which was an overpay anyways

    Well if they pay the buyout they are even dumber as it takes the luxury tax hit to 21. But no, the idea here is that Jeter nullified the option rather than straight declining it. This means he did not receive the buyout.

  238. charlestonchew November 1st, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Derek Jeter earns his money because, honestly, people come to Yankee Stadium to see him play. When he’s not in the lineup, less folks come out. Who the hell else is drawing in fans? Now that Mo is gone and Pettitte threw his final pitch, are you expecting CC to fill the seats? Cano certainly can’t do it alone and I’m not so sure people are that excited about Cervelli. Or Pineda. Or Vernon Wells. Or Ichiro. Or Gardner (even though I love Gardner).

    Derek Jeter IS the Yankees. He’s worth at least $30-40 million a season. I’m glad we got him for 12 (though he should have just picked up his option…)

  239. Shame Spencer November 1st, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Come over to the dark side, Doreen lol…

  240. PRDENTIST November 1st, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Option money is calculated into the AAV

  241. louedwards November 1st, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Charleston chew -

    Which furthers my point of blowing everythig up and developing a new core of stars to take their place.

    But just because a bunch of fans love jeter doesnt mean they’ll come out when the yankees are losing. Nobody LIKES losing, with or without jeter. Which means fiscal responsibility when it comes to doling out legacy contracts is so important.

  242. Jerkface November 1st, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Option money is calculated into the AAV

    Player option money is calculated for AAV, but not bonuses. The 1.5 silver slugger bonus is additive to the year it is earned for.

  243. pat November 1st, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    McCulloughSL
    Talking to Yanks officials, sounds like the $2.5M raise was worth avoiding the acrimony of Jeter opting out. Jeter exercised lev

  244. luis November 1st, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    Good afternoon guys,

    JF and JS excellent contributions to help us understand the implications of the new contract…Thank you very much

    If their takes are correct then this deal makes little sense if they are serious about the cap. I do understand that not having Jeter might have been a PR hit and probably a huge hit in Stadium’s sales…

    I love Jeter and he deserves to retire as a Yankee…But no player should be above the long term health of the team…If giving him this contract makes it harder to reach the goal, he has done a disservice to his team… And ownership is showing very little grasp of what makes a team successful in the long run.

    Why do I think Levine is behind this deal?…Because it seems in line with Ichiro’s…Although in this case I do think he has a point.

    If they scrap the 189 plan, they better start signing a lot of players…In the end, I think it is the wrong way to go about it ( as per my post yesterday )…We are not in the Dodgers position…We have no core in place other than a 40 year old SS and a FA 2B…Also, building a team around FA isn’t a very successful way of doing it ( remember the 80′s )…Not to mention that I think the era of the FA is coming to an end…Teams are keeping their stars and they only become available past their primes or at the end of it ay best…You are usually paying for past production not for future production.

    If they don’t scrap it..Then it is even worse..Because we would be doomed to be in eternal mediocrity…We’ll see.

  245. Chad Jennings November 1st, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    charlestonchew November 1st, 2013 at 4:00 pm e

    Derek Jeter earns his money because, honestly, people come to Yankee Stadium to see him play.

    —-

    I do think this is a big part of it. Remember when Hal gave those radio interviews soon after thee season ended? With both Kay and Francesa, Hal talked about the decline in attendance and viewership being directly related to not having star players. I believe he specifically mentioned Jeter each time. Attendance numbers were down last year, and making sure Jeter comes back could be a way of trying to correct that.

  246. JobaTipsHisCap November 1st, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    another $12m waste.

    good deal.

  247. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    charlestonchew November 1st, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Derek Jeter earns his money because, honestly, people come to Yankee Stadium to see him play. When he’s not in the lineup, less folks come out. Who the hell else is drawing in fans? Now that Mo is gone and Pettitte threw his final pitch, are you expecting CC to fill the seats? Cano certainly can’t do it alone and I’m not so sure people are that excited about Cervelli. Or Pineda. Or Vernon Wells. Or Ichiro. Or Gardner (even though I love Gardner).

    Derek Jeter IS the Yankees. He’s worth at least $30-40 million a season. I’m glad we got him for 12 (though he should have just picked up his option…)

    —–

    A lot of fans feel that way and I certainly understand that.

    However, my rebuttal to that would be that fans aren’t going to come out and spend a lot of money to watch a bad team whether Jeter is in the lineup or not.

  248. JobaTipsHisCap November 1st, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    He’s worth at least $30-40 million a season.

    ********

    then pay him $25million for 2014 and call it a bargain, this will make Yankees look good and classy.
    seriously.

  249. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Logically speaking, the best way to get the fans to come out and watch the team play is to put a winning product on the field.

  250. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    How do you know if a team will be bad?
    Getting Jeter in smoothly is step 1.
    It doesn’t have an impact on the budget.
    Cano’s deal or not, will.
    Much ado about nothing, but what else is new….

  251. blake November 1st, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    McCulloughSL
    Talking to Yanks officials, sounds like the $2.5M raise was worth avoiding the acrimony of Jeter opting out. Jeter exercised lev

    both sides didn’t want to have the drama again….I get that…..but Jeter didn’t have anywhere to go really. The least dramatic thing would have been for Jeter to just take the option……..

  252. NYYanksFan November 1st, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Yankees bid against themselves again. That’s why they don’t get home town discounts.

  253. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Without Jeter last year the Yanks didn’t stand a chance.
    That’s the way most fans felt.
    Whether it’s true or not, it is a perception and we all know perception is reality.
    Attendance was down partially for hat reason.

  254. luis November 1st, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    both sides didn’t want to have the drama again….I get that…..but Jeter didn’t have anywhere to go really. The least dramatic thing would have been for Jeter to just take the option……..

    ===============================

    This….Hence my comment about Jeter…

  255. Giuseppe Franco November 1st, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    How do you know if a team will be bad?

    —–

    Because when you factor how many holes this team had in 2013 (injuries or not) – you can reasonably expect them to be worse if they stick to the $189M plan.

    There were a number of us regulars (who don’t have the reputation of being doom and gloomers) who didn’t like the way this team was constructed from the get-go and didn’t expect this team to be a serious contender in 2013.

    And that was before the injuries started to pile up.

  256. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Who figured the sox to win a series?
    Baseball is hard to predict Suzyn.

  257. blake November 1st, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    I don’t think this is really all that significant unless the Yankees thought they were saving money and thats why they did it…..then it makes them incompetent.

  258. PRDENTIST November 1st, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Everyone is missing the point that the “beloved” yankee must have opted out of his contract in order for this new deal to be had. I have lost respect for Jeter for opting out of a 9.5 million contract after not giving the yankee fan anything in 2013.

  259. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    And that was before the injuries started to pile up.
    ===========================
    They were always a lock to make the playoffs before the injuries.

  260. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    I have lost respect for Jeter for opting out of a 9.5 million contract after not giving the yankee fan anything in 2013.
    ================
    Ever hear of cost of living?

  261. mick November 1st, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    I don’t think this is really all that significant unless the Yankees thought they were saving money and thats why they did it…..then it makes them incompetent.
    ===================
    This wasn’t about the money. It was a PR move.

  262. thomasbp November 1st, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    I believe the key may be in the definition of contract year:

    “Contract Year” shall mean the period from December 2 of
    one year through and including December 1 of the following year,
    or such other one-year period to which the Office of the Commissioner
    and the Association may agree. To the extent that a Contract
    Year is referenced by a number in connection with a particular calculation,
    the reference shall be to the calendar year of the championship
    season that falls in that Contract Year.

    The penalty “shall be added to (or subtracted
    from) Actual Club Payroll in the Contract Year in which
    the Player Option Year falls.” In this case the option fell in the 2013 contract year even though it relates to the 2014 contract year. Yankees pay the tax, but in 2013 so it helps them get under the 2014 189M

  263. beedogs November 2nd, 2013 at 2:51 am

    This team is run by imbeciles and will never win again until the Steinbrenners are forced to sell it. Let’s hope they go broke sometime soon.

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