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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Looking for backup plans at second base

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 06, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Robinson Cano

It’s a little hard to imagine where this Yankees offseason might go if the team doesn’t re-sign Robinson Cano. The easy-to-envision set of expectations all hinge on Cano coming back and rest of the roster being built around him. It’s certainly not a sure thing that he’ll re-sign, but the Yankees generally seem to be the favorites, and without Cano, the handbook kind of goes right out the window. At that point, almost anything would seem possible.

Which might lead to the Yankees being connected — at least loosely — to almost every available hitter out there because . . . who knows what might happen? Have to be prepared for anything. Already the Yankees have been connected to Brandon Phillips as a just-in-case trade target and to Omar Infante as a just-in-case free agent possibility.

Here are a few ways the Yankees could go at second base without Cano.

Free agent market
In theory, I suppose Jhonny Peralta, Stephen Drew or Rafael Furcal could be considered second base options, but that theory might not carry into reality. Of those three shortstops, only Furcal has any big league time and second, and even he’s played only two innings at the position in the past decade. The free agent market for experienced second basemen falls off considerably after Cano. Infante has to be considered the next-best option, but he’s far more a table-setter or bottom-of-the-order bat than a true run producer. And after Infante, it’s a pretty significant drop off to the world of Mark Ellis, Kelly Johnson and Skip Schumaker. The free agent market is kind of a reminder of how difficult it is to find a second baseman who comes anywhere close to Cano’s offensive ability.

Trade market
Phillips is known to be on the market. And as Jon Heyman notes in that first article linked above, Howie Kendrick and Dan Uggla are also believed to be available. Of those three, I have to think Kendrick is the most complete player and possibly the most difficult to acquire. Kendrick turned 30 in July and hit .297/.335/.439 this season, numbers that are more or less in line with his career production. He’s a nice hitter, has been for a while now, and should remain productive through these final two years of his current contract. Uggla has big-time power and takes a lot of walks, but his low average has really dragged down his production the past three years. Phillips has also been trending the wrong way these past three years. Of course, you have to wonder what the Yankees have to offer for one of these guys. Low-level prospects usually don’t carry a ton of weight on the trade market, and the Yankees can hardly afford to trade away a young big league pitcher like Ivan Nova.

In-house options
Reallocation of funds. That would be the thinking behind an in-house replacement at second base. Eduardo Nunez, David Adams and Corban Joseph would be the top in-house options — with the obvious possibility of a Jayson Nix-type coming in on a minor league deal to compete for the job — and the Yankees would make up for the overwhelming decline at second by significantly upgrading elsewhere. That might have to start with Brian McCann behind the plate (second base becomes the weak-hitting spot in the order, catcher becomes the position with a lefty masher), and it would likely have to include and upgrade in right field and a legitimate bat to produce at designated hitter (and potentially play some third base). Of course, this contingency requires that the Yankees move on from Cano early enough to still have other impact bats available.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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87 Responses to “Looking for backup plans at second base”

  1. blake November 6th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    infante is probably the best option because you don’t have to trade for him and he’s pretty good……honestly though the more I’ve thought about it the more I think they should just literally do almost nothing if Cano leaves because it’ll just be too hard to replace him AND get better……you could replace his production by signing multiple players…..the problem is that they aren’t a good team with Cano….so if he goes they become a pretty much terrible offense and there just isn’t enough out there on the market to make it a good offense.

  2. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    My order of preference:

    Cano->Kendrick->Phillips-> Infante.

    :)

  3. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    It’s one of the spots where there are good options out there.

  4. wanzies222 November 6th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    MTU – Eh. Cano is the only one that pays his way, particularly if you are a WAR believer.

  5. pkyankfan69 November 6th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    MTU,

    I don’t want Kendrick.

    Without the Yankees to hit against his BA will drop 50 points. ;)

  6. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    222-

    I’d love to see them keep Cano but I do not see the Yankees engaging in a bidding war to keep him.

    And one might just develop.

    I think many here underestimate how attractive Cano might be to many teams.

    He’s a frickin’ star after all.

    In the George days there would be no chance of him leaving.

    In these more value conscious times there is.

    ;)

  7. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    PK-

    IMO Kendrick is a terrific ballplayer on both sides of the ball.

    He wouldn’t come cheap. That is the main obstacle FWIS.

  8. wanzies222 November 6th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    MTU – I think that Hal knows the value of star power. It would be stunning if Cano were to end up elsewhere. My guess? 8/220

  9. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Gonna get going soon.

    I just turned 21 today and so I get to do exactly what I want.

    So guess that means some exercise, some BBQ, and a flick.

    :)

  10. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    222-

    That’s an overpay. In both $ and years. The old style of doing business.

    I’d be surprised if they go that far.

    You think so though ?

    Interesting.

    That will definitely screw w 189.

    ;)

  11. wanzies222 November 6th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    MTU – Have a safe day.

  12. Wave Your Hat November 6th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    If Cano goes too many things will have to go right for the Yanks to be competitive, IMO. Yes on paper it is possible to construct a competitive team but the Yanks would actually have to be the high bidder for the guys to replace him and there are a lot of other teams out there with money who will be bidding as well. It isn’t 2001 anymore.

  13. MTU November 6th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    222-

    Thanks.

    Much appreciated.

    I’ll check back later to see what you guys have come up with.

    :)

  14. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Yanks need to decide NOW whether they are (1) going to let Cano write his own check, or (2) allow him to walk. Putzing around and negotiating with Cano while significant players like McCann are signing elsewhere, will paralyze the Yankees. It will Not allow them to improve a team that won 85 games last season, and failed to make the Playoffs. To me, re-signing a 30 something Cano, long term, for huge $$$, is Not improving the team short or long term. It is merely maintaining a status quo which merely produced 85 wins. For the long term ramifications, all you gotta do is look at A-Rod’s declining production and the current ham stringing his contract has rendered on the 2014 roster.

  15. Wave Your Hat November 6th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    If the Yanks hold to the 189 Plan after giving Jeter that contract, just more evidence that they are more interested in being a museum than a World Series winner in 2014.

  16. blake November 6th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    “If Cano goes too many things will have to go right for the Yanks to be competitive, IMO. Yes on paper it is possible to construct a competitive team but the Yanks would actually have to be the high bidder for the guys to replace him and there are a lot of other teams out there with money who will be bidding as well. It isn’t 2001 anymore.”

    yes….I’ve made the case here that you could more than replace Cano’s production by signing Choo and McCann and while that’s true…..1) you lose the draft pick and 2) that just gets you back to where you started more or less.

    This team needs to improve greatly to compete…..not just replace what they lost so the more I’ve thought about it the more I lean towards it should be either Cano or David Adams playing 2B next year.

  17. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Just trying to read the tea leaves here.

    Two articles, I believe both are in the Daily News. Grandy quoted like a man who wouldn’t be all that upset about leaving NY. Doesn’t seem like he’d give the Yanks any kind of edge here. I think he was a little disappointed they QO’d him because it hurts his market value but that’s conjecture. He’ll go on a multi-year deal wherever the money is.

    Cashman, in an article on Cano, seems to be willing to be very patient. Says Robbie earned his right to be a FA and take his time. Don’t think there’s any chance the Yanks gave him any kind of offer with a deadline. Cashman wouldn’t have been quoted this way if he had.

    So what does this all mean? If you see the Yanks make any kind of major free agent signing in the next 5-6 weeks while Cano is still out there it most likely means they’ve ditched 189.

  18. Niblick November 6th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    It’s either Cano or last place. It’s the Yankees choice.

  19. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    It is merely maintaining a status quo which merely produced 85 wins.

    ==========================

    Is it? Doesn’t one have to assume improved offensive production from both 1B and SS?

  20. wanzies222 November 6th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    blake –

    I would argue that Cano is irreplaceable in that there is no one player that they can get that will produce at his level – at any position. He fully realizes what it means to be a lifelong Yankee, both in terms of on the field and off.

    I still maintain that losing costs Hal too much. I believe they will defer on Plan 189; the interesting part will be to watch how they become a WS team again.

  21. blake November 6th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    “Cashman, in an article on Cano, seems to be willing to be very patient. Says Robbie earned his right to be a FA and take his time. Don’t think there’s any chance the Yanks gave him any kind of offer with a deadline. Cashman wouldn’t have been quoted this way if he had.”

    this isn’t very wise IMO……if they wait all winter on Cano then they’ll be left holding an empty bag in January if he leaves. They should have their very best offer and put a time limit on it……of course if he leaves they are kinda screwed anyway

  22. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    For the $$$, McCann and Infante > Cano in 2014, and give us a shot at $189. Also, get off the loss of a draft pick. If we had any decent Bushers, we could trade to upgrade in 2014. The same guys that picked these mediocre Bushers that no other team wants, are making the picks you currently want to save.

  23. blake November 6th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    “I would argue that Cano is irreplaceable in that there is no one player that they can get that will produce at his level – at any position. He fully realizes what it means to be a lifelong Yankee, both in terms of on the field and off.”

    no one player could but you could replace his production with 2 or 3 players easily…..if they signed Choo and McCann the offense would be better than with just Cano alone…..and their deals would be shorter than Cano’s as well so you’d be looking at two 5 or 6 year deals instead of one 8 or 9 year deal.

    The problem though is that they really need Cano + more players to actually improve the offense in a significant way…….a way that’ll make them good enough to win again……so it doesn’t seem to make sense to waste that draft pick unless Cano is staying to me.

  24. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Funny how being the only good catcher in the market makes one a great catcher.

    McCann is going to be a massive overpay for somebody.

  25. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    When you simply look at numbers, the sum of the parts NEVER exceeds the whole. You look at the numbers of players like Gomes and Nava vs someone like Cano and you get a no-brainer decision. You look at reality, which is a Championship Parade and you understand.

  26. Ys Guy November 6th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    phillips isnt going to sign before cano unless they offer him alot more than he’s worth.

    so he doesnt really work as a back up plan

  27. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    “Cashman, in an article on Cano, seems to be willing to be very patient. Says Robbie earned his right to be a FA and take his time. Don’t think there’s any chance the Yanks gave him any kind of offer with a deadline. Cashman wouldn’t have been quoted this way if he had.”

    “this isn’t very wise IMO……if they wait all winter on Cano then they’ll be left holding an empty bag in January if he leaves.”

    Cashman’s quotes are consistent with team who really wants to sign it’s best player, but knows that pushing him or creating an artificial deadline will only reduce their chances. The approach is, “here’s our offer. We’re not saying it’s out best offer, but go out there and explore the market. When you get that information digested, let’s talk again.”

    The Yanks obviously know that waiting on Cano will damage their chances of signing other free agents and improving the team. But they seem willing to wait on Cano anyway. This is leading me to believe that 189 will not happen this year.

  28. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    There is not enough pieces to trade for a 2B if Cano leaves. I agree that RF and C and DH will have to become production positions again. You would have to DFA Wells, Cervilli and Ichiro. I would believe that the Yankees would sign a 2B in case Cano leaves and then sign Cano late and move the person to DH or 3B if A-Rod is gone. They did the same with Swish. He was signed to play 1B but when Tex was signed, they moved him to rf.

  29. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    “The Yanks obviously know that waiting on Cano will damage their chances of signing other free agents and improving the team. But they seem willing to wait on Cano anyway. This is leading me to believe that 189 will not happen this year.”

    Of course it could also mean the Yanks aren’t going to sign anybody and just field a team of Canos, Jeters and Ichiros.

  30. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    “McCann is going to be a massive overpay for somebody.”

    I think beltrans market is being inflated as well…..Heyman is saying he’s gonna get 20 million per……he’s 37

  31. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    November 6, 2013 at 12:54 pm
    phillips isnt going to sign before cano unless they offer him alot more than he’s worth.

    He’s not a FA….you’d have to trade for him

  32. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Only 2 players out there are worth an overpay – Cano and Choo.

    I hope we get them both.

  33. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    That means no Beltran, no McCann, no Ellsbury.

  34. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Cano + Choo would make the offense much better….especially if a Peralta is thrown in there. Problem is there is no way that’s fitting under the cap unless Arod suspension is most of the season

  35. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    I could see Beltran getting $20 Mill per for 2 seasons with an AL team\DH maybe. NL? NOPE

  36. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Choo is the 2nd best player on the market so if they are losing the draft pick he should probably be signed to do it……they’d need more though to make it worth it

  37. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Only 2 players out there are worth an overpay – Cano and Choo.

    ==============================

    This is correct……….except for Choo.

  38. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    I don’t care about the Peraltas, Navarros nor any other secondary pieces.

    Just grab Cano and Choo.

    It’s that easy.

  39. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Choo would rake in Yankees stadium. He’s definitely an impact player worth big dollars.

  40. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Choo has a higher career OPS+ than Cano

  41. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    And Choo played most of his career in Cleveland. YS is a better park for hitters as far as I know.

  42. hardwired7 November 6th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    They went with the “in-house options” for catcher last season. That was an absolute disaster.

    Let’s make that Plan Z.

    Though, TBH, I’m not really convinced there’s a team out there that’s going to blow the Yanks out of the water with some obscene offer to Cano. They’ll re-sign him, eventually.

  43. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    With A-Rod’s failed “06″ drug test, and his current obstruction, there is No Way he walks away with under 150 game suspension. Plus, if A-Rod is allowed to get away with his cover-up attempts, it will be open season for every player to attempt likewise when caught. This will be spelled out when his punishment is handed down.

  44. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Choo would rake in Yankees stadium. He’s definitely an impact player worth big dollars

    ================================

    He’s John Olreud with less power and defense at his position. And he can’t hit left handed pitching…….in any park

    He’s good. Very good. But he’s a platoon player. Even if it’s the business half of the platoon, I wouldn’t give a guy like that $90M for 5 years.

  45. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    if A-Rod is allowed to get away with his cover-up attempts, it will be open season for every player to attempt likewise when caught

    =========================

    The precedent for punishment for attempted cover-ups has been established in the Melky Cabrera matter. There is none.

  46. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    No matter what, teams will have to overpay for these free agents. So you take the ones most worth an overpay – that’s Cano and Choo.

  47. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Regardless of the players “numbers”, you need to either plug the gapping holes at C and 3B, or have a plan ready to employ, Before signing Choo. 2B also would need to be plugged if Cano is allowed to walk. The Yankee 25 Man is currently like triage. The OF just ain’t up there with C, 3B, and maybe 2B.

  48. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    - AAA -
    I’m down for 150 games for A-Rod. What say you???

  49. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Donny:

    Well under that number. Closer to 50 than 150. No failed tests. Suspect witnesses. Little if anything in the CBA/JDA that supports anything close to what’s been assessed.

  50. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    A-Rod failed a test in “06″. That has been pretty well established.

  51. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    A-Rod failed a test in “06?. That has been pretty well established.

    ============================

    Actually, it hasn’t been well established at all. That said, even if it actually were well established, the penalty for that particular infraction under the CBA/JDA is ZERO games.

  52. jacksquat November 6th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Jeter
    Choo
    Cano
    Beltran
    Teixeira
    Soriano
    Pierzynski
    Freese
    Gardner

    CC, Tanaka, Nova, Johnson, Pineda

  53. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    “He’s John Olreud with less power and defense at his position. And he can’t hit left handed pitching…….in any park”

    1) Olreud was pretty darn good….career OPS of .863
    2) Choo can’t hit lefties but he still gets on base against them about 35% of the time and he hits RHP like Cano or better

  54. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Yea, in “06″ the punishment was lax, but he still has a Failed drug test on his record.

  55. 86w183 November 6th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Hello again all

    I think Choo’s LH/RH splits are a little severe to justify a 9-figure contract. the last two years his OPs versus LHP is .605 & .612.

    He kills righties however .926 & 1.011

  56. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    JS,
    that team would be competitive but I don’t see any way it’d fit under Hal’s budget.

    They have about 50 million to spend…..could be 80 if Arod misses all year and Cano, Choo, Beltra, AJP, and Tanaka will probably cost around 90-100 million combined.

  57. blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “I think Choo’s LH/RH splits are a little severe to justify a 9-figure contract. the last two years his OPs versus LHP is .605 & .612.”

    still had a .347 OBP though vs LHP last year……Gardner’s was .344 overall! Choo can’t hit lefties at all…..but he does walk against them and he just destroys righties….

  58. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Plus factor in walk years in the OF. Just look ahead one year. That’s all I ask.

    The whole outfield is finished after 2014: Gardner, Ichiro, Wells, Soriano.

    There will be 3 holes in the OF after the season and you can’t procrastinate and try to fill all 3 at the last minute.

    Choo is a must.

  59. jacksquat November 6th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
    JS,
    that team would be competitive but I don’t see any way it’d fit under Hal’s budget.

    They have about 50 million to spend…..could be 80 if Arod misses all year and Cano, Choo, Beltra, AJP, and Tanaka will probably cost around 90-100 million combined.

    If they are shrewd with the contracts, maybe. I didn’t do the math but I thought it would be tight.

    Cano 23 (x8; give him the 8th year to lower the AAV)
    Choo 18
    Beltran 13 (x2)
    Tanaka 10
    Johnson 8
    Pierzynski 7
    Freese 5 (arb)

    That’s 84. Hmm…

  60. comet November 6th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    MTU hope all is well with you and family.

    MLBTR estimates that Cano will get a contract with the total value exceeding $200mm. I just can’t see paying the money or years.

  61. Mottsx November 6th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    If the entire outfield is gone next year… including Gardner (current leadoff hitter). Why not try and trade him and sign Ellsbury? While he expensive, he is atleast 1 1/2 times the player Gardner is and could possibly hit 25 HR at Yankee Stadium and will netting twice as many stolen bases as he isn’t afraid to steal.

  62. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Ellsbury will get over 20 million for 4 or 5 years. Too much.

  63. 86w183 November 6th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    The Yanks actually have about $ 80 M to spend WITH A-Rod on the books. Problem is that has to cover about 17 players. If you keep Granderson and Kuroda and sign Cano that’s about $ 50-55 M right there.

    the next $$$ would have to go to another starting pitcher. Garza? Nolasco? Kazmir?

    It sure would help if Ichiro retired to Japan and freed up another $ 6.5 M.

  64. 4TrainNorth November 6th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Cano, Choo, McCann and Tanaka. The Core Four. Just kidding. But I have a feeling Beltran is finally going to break down next year.

  65. blake November 6th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    “The Yanks actually have about $ 80 M to spend WITH A-Rod on the books.”

    nope…..not if you add up everything. They have about 98 million in existing contracts, estimated 17 million in arbitration guys, 12 million for benefits that all teams have to pay and then around 13 million in potential bonuses that they have to account for.

    That’s right at 140 million already spent with regards to the luxury tax…..meaning they’d have 49 million left……if Arod gets suspended all season then his AAV (27.5) and his homer bonus of 6 million come off that so only then are we looking at around 80 million to spend.

    Arod getting suspended all year is a must if they want to compete under the budget IMO……i

  66. J. Alfred Prufrock November 6th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    Niblick November 6th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    It’s either Cano or last place. It’s the Yankees choice.
    ///

    They let him walk, hell, just shut the thing down.

  67. Mottsx November 6th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Ellsbury will get over 20 million for 4 or 5 years. Too much.

    Cases are being made for Choo who is being projected to get about $18M a year, Ellsbury is not worth $1-2M more a year? He’s a true lead off hitter that hits both right and left handed pitching, more stolen bases and plays Centerfield not fake centerfield.

  68. Wave Your Hat November 6th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    “Arod getting suspended all year is a must if they want to compete under the budget IMO……i”

    But if he comes back for all or almost all of 2015, then the under 189M window slams shut. So getting under the cap is now or never for them in 2014.

  69. pat November 6th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    In case you have a grand burning a hole in your pocket and don’t know what to do with it…….. Core 4 Q and A Dinner?

    http://www.steinersports.com/p.....-2013.html

  70. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Giving Choo 5 yrs and $90M > Giving Granderson 4/$45M?

  71. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Mottsx, why can’t they re-sign Gardner? I am not a Choo fan either. Too much for a platoon. Plus, it would be good to see what the minors shake out next year as far as OF.

  72. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Sorry, that should be 3/$45M to Granderson

  73. Doreen November 6th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Somewhat off topic:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....d_sox.html

    Great.

    :rolls:

  74. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Granderson is >Slg and OPS

  75. 86w183 November 6th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Blake — You’re just playing math games.. I didn’t count arbitration guys $$$ but I didn’t count them as signed players, either. I included the estimated $ 12 M

    I know about A-rod’s $ 6 M… what other bonuses are you talking about?

  76. Mottsx November 6th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    I don’t see Gardner as a great resign. I’d rather let him see what he can get in the very thin outfield market next year as he will be 31 and as he is a great player, he’s too old to learn how to steal while his legs are going to start to break down.

    Ellsbury is a GREAT player and I think they should take advantage of the opportunity to sign him now.

  77. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    You know, most everyone here has got some really good ideas. But it really all depends on ditching 189 or Arod being suspending all year. The Yanks have no control over the latter. Therefore, the best solution is to ditch 189.

    Now that doesn’t mean you go hog wild and spend $250MM+ on some bad contracts (i.e., McCann and possibly Cano). No, on the contrary, I think the appropriate budget right now for the Yanks is $200-$210MM. At that level you could probably sign Choo, Kuroda and Tanaka if available. Now that wouldn’t be a bad team if you can get Cano at a reasonable price. And guess what Hal? You’d still save about $25MM in payroll over last year. Not bad eh? And with luxury tax threshold moving to 189 you might even pay less than you paid this past year even at 50%.

    I call that as close to win-win as you can get.

  78. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    86w183 November 6th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    “Blake — You’re just playing math games.. I didn’t count arbitration guys $$$ but I didn’t count them as signed players, either. I included the estimated $ 12 M

    I know about A-rod’s $ 6 M… what other bonuses are you talking about?”

    Read RAB’s Nov 4th breakdown of the salaries. That’s the best analysis I’ve seen. Includes all the bonuses, even Jeter’s.

  79. AAA November 6th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Ellsbury is a GREAT player and I think they should take advantage of the opportunity to sign him now.

    ==========================

    Not sure I buy that he is a great player. He’s 30 years old, has a poor outfield arm and is no better than Gardner in CF. And spare me the “He’ll hit 20 homers at NYS” theory. He’s exceeded 9 homers ONCE in his career. His 2011 was the exception not the rule. Signing him to 5+ years at $20M is a mistake of Crawford-ian proportions. His game is speed and speed doesn’t get better as one heads into his 30′s.

  80. blake November 6th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “{I know about A-rod’s $ 6 M… what other bonuses are you talking about?”

    As bigdan mentioned the RAB article that’s where I got my numbers from…..Jeter has a possible 7 million in bonuses that they have to account for as well.

  81. blake November 6th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    “Giving Choo 5 yrs and $90M > Giving Granderson 4/$45M?”

    depends on what else is going with Choo IMO…..if it’s just Choo alone then I’d chose Granderson because he doesn’t cost a draft pick and adding Choo only to this team isn’t going to make a big enough difference IMO…..

    Choo is a significantly better hitter than Granderson is but unless the team is going to be competitive then I wouldn’t give the draft pick to make that swap.

  82. blake November 6th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    Ellsbury has been a great player 1 season…..that season was the outlier in his his career. He’s injury prone and is almost 30. I even consider signing him for the money he’s going to demand…….I would rather sign Choo, Beltran, or Granderson than Ellsbury to be honest. Choo is a better player…..Beltran will demand less years and Granderson doesn’t require the draft pick to sign.

  83. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Let’s see what you describe as great…CF

    who is who?? 1. 30 year old with 9HR, 53 RBI, .298 BA, .355 OBP, .426 SLG, .781 OPS
    2. 30 year old with 8HR, 52 RBI, .273 BA, .344 OBP, .416 SLG, .759 OPS
    3. 31 year old with 21HR, 54RBI,.285BA, .423OBP, .462 SLG, .885 OPS

    1. Is Ellsbury
    2. Gardner
    3. Choo

  84. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    C – A.J. Pierzynski 2014 only $8.5M what the Yanks paid towards A.J. Burnett’s 2013 contract

    Say what you want about Pierzynski but right now he is better than Stewart, Romine, and Cervelli and would cost a fraction of McCann.

    2B – Omar Infante three years x $8M a year = $24M total, at least $137M less than Cano assuming Cano gets no less than $161M for 7 years (Sabathia’s initial contract the Yankees reportedly offered Cano.) The Yanks save $7M at 2B (Cano’s $15M for 2013 – Infante’s $8M for 2014.)

    Infante isn’t Cano but he’s a good player and the perfect #8 hitter who could bat #2 on days Jeter rests. He can play some 3B and SS, maybe some 1B in pinch, too.

    3B – Aramis Ramirez 2014 only $16M salary + $4M buyout paid with $12M cleared letting go of Youkilis and $4M of the $7M saved signing Infante over Cano. Milwaukee would take just Nunez to unload the $20M if the Yanks buy out Ramirez for $4M. If Ramirez is good enough to have the team part of his 2015 mutual option picked up and he picks up his part of it, he’d cost the Yanks $16M for 2014 and $14M for 2015 for $30M total across two years. If he was healthy all year he’d have had a season better than any Yankee save Cano. The Yanks can pay this $16M or $20M with the $25M cleared from A-Rod being suspended for all of 2014 (as I’m predicting his 211-game suspension will be reduced to him missing 2014 only.) The Yanks save $5M or $9M for 2014 (A-Rod’s $25M – Ramirez’s $16M or $20M.)

    Ramirez had an injury-shortned 2013 but still posted a slashline around his excellent career one and was only 6 HR and 11 RBI shy of having more HR and RBI than any 2013 Yankee save Cano.

    RF – Beltran 2014 only $12M with a $14M option for the same ($2M buyout) so he could make $14M for 2014 only or $28M for 2014-15. The Yanks save $1M or $3M for 2014 (Granderson’s $15M – Beltran’s $12M or $14M.)

    Beltran had an excellent 2013 for his age.

    Gardner CF L $4M in his walk year
    Jeter DH R $12M in his walk year
    Beltran RF S $12M in a possible walk year
    Ramirez 3B R $16M in a possible walk year
    Teixiera 1B S $22.5M signed through 2016
    Soriano LF R $5M in his walk year
    Pierzynski C L $8.5M in his walk year
    Infante 2B R $8M signed through 2016
    Ryan SS R $3M in his walk year

    $91M total
    $93M if Beltran is bought out
    $95M if Ramirez is bought out
    $97M if both are bought out

    The Yanks upgrade at every position save CF which is as is with Gardner and 2B. The downgrade from Cano to Infante is offset by the upgrades. Teixiera and Infante would be the only everyday players signed to guaranteed contracts beyond 2014 and both are free agents after 2016 which means the Yanks could rebuild the entire starting nine outside of them and who says they couldn’t trade Teixiera and/or Infante after 2014 since both would be only two-year commitments for reasonable money if they produce ($45M for Teixiera’s 2015-16, $16M for Infante’s 2015-16.) If Teixiera has a bounce/comeback .270/.360/.540/.900 25 HR 100 RBI type 2014, he could fetch a very nice bounty on the trade market. Ditto for Infante if he replicated his 2013.

    If the Yanks picked up the options on Beltran and Ramirez for 2015 they’d be set at all the bases and RF and figure they bring back Jeter for DH and at least one from Gardner, Soriano, and Ryan, so they’d 2/3rds set with their 2015 starting nine. They’d be set with the entire starting nine if they brought Gardner, Soriano, Ryan, and Russell Martin. Why not bring back Martin if he has a good 2014 as he’d turn only 32 in 2015?

    Yes, Jeter, Ramirez, Beltran, Soriano, and Pierzynski are old but Jeter should produce better than the 2013 Yankees shortstop and all the other four were better than the 2013 Yankees at their respective positions. I can’t see all four or five falling off the face of the Earth. I don’t think even three would. One or two might, but these five, Ryan, and Teixiera bury Overbay, Nunez, Youkilis, Suzuki, Wells, Boesch/Francisco, and Stewart/Cervelli who the Yanks went into 2013 Opening Day with as a whopping 7/9ths of their starting nine.

    Bench (assuming the Yanks clear $2.4M trading Wells):

    Romine (C) $500K
    Youkilis (1B/3B) $1M ($11M paycut)
    Nix (2B/SS) $1.5M
    Suzuki (OF) $6.5M

    $9.5M total for the bench

    $124M for the starting nine, bench, and Sabathia ($65M for eleven pitchers assuming the Yanks cap the payroll at $189M)
    $126M if Beltran is bought out ($63M)
    $128M if Ramirez is bought out ($61M)
    $130M if both are bought out ($59M)

    Figure this is spent for the pitching:

    Rotation: $16M Kuroda + $11M Tanaka + $3M Nova + $500K Phelps = $30.5M

    Bullpen: $5M Robertson + $4M Logan + $1.5M Kelley + $500K Warren + $500K Cabral + $500K Clairborne or Betances + $3.5M free agent = $15.5M

    That’s $46M for the other eleven pitchers besides Sabathia for a total 2014 Yankees payroll of $176M, $13M less than $189M, if Beltran and Ramirez are bought out. If neither is bought out, the 2014 Yankees payroll is only $170M, $19M less than $189M.

  85. blake November 6th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    choo is a lot better hitter than ellsbury production wise….he’s way more consistent and he gets on base a lot more.

  86. PRDENTIST November 6th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Duh Innings,
    you don’t mention who the Yankees will give up or the brewers will take for Ramirez?

  87. kd November 6th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    if cano goes (detroit?), they should seriously look into trading tex at the deadline


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