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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


State of the organization: Starting rotation

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 06, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

CC Sabathia

The Yankees are full of options for the back of the rotation. They have guys who are ready to compete for a job right now, and a fairly long list of guys who could be ready to fill-in at some point during the season. What they don’t have are reliable arms that they can absolutely count on going forward. They have a few guys who might be that kind of pitcher, but they need a few key pitchers to meet expectations and deliver.

NovaPhelpsRETURNING STARTERS
CC Sabathia (signed through 2017)
Ivan Nova (first year of arbitration)
David Phelps (not yet arbitration eligible)

Six Yankees made at least four starts last season, and half of them became free agents today. Andy Pettitte, Hiroki Kuroda and Phil Hughes are gone, and Kuroda seems to be the only one with even a remote chance of coming back. What’s left are three very different pieces of a very uncertain rotation. Sabathia is the ace, but after last season, he’s the ace in name only. At 33 years old, Sabathia’s coming off the worst season of his career, which is either a new and disastrous reality, or the kind of thing that forces a mid-30s transition. No doubt, the Yankees need Sabathia to be better, and if he is, that’s a big problem solved. If not, it’s simply a big problem. Nova is in kind of the opposite situation, looking to repeat a terrific 2013 season when he finished with a 3.10 ERA, despite getting off to such a bad start that he was option to the minors at one point. Nova’s shown massive highs and awful lows, but this was the best he’d ever been. A sign that he’s putting things together at age 26, or just another tease in his young career of inconsistency? Then there’s Phelps, who has yet to define himself as either a starter or a reliever. He can do both, and circumstances have dictated that he bounce back and forth between the two roles.

WarrenPinedaNEXT IN LINE
Michael Pineda (not yet arbitration eligible)
Adam Warren (not yet arbitration eligible)
Vidal Nuno (not yet arbitration eligible)
If David Huff isn’t released this offseason (he seems like a non-tender candidate) he could also fit into this category. Huff made three starts for the Yankees this season. So did Nuno. Warren made two and served as the team’s long reliever throughout the season. Pineda … well, he’s Pineda, and it might finally be time for him to — you know — actually pitch in a big league game for the first time since the Yankees traded their top hitting prospect to acquire him two years ago. Huff, Warren and Nuno are the kind of pitchers you expect to be in the mix for a fifth starter spot at this time of year: One reclamation project and two young, relatively inexperienced pitchers looking for an opportunity. The wild card here is obviously Pineda, who came back from shoulder surgery to pitch pretty well in limited Triple-A action (23.1 IP, 18 H, 6 BB, 26 K, 3.86 ERA), and he’ll likely be given a real chance to break camp with the Yankees next spring. Expectations were sky-high after the trade, and hopes are still high since he’s come back with solid arm strength after the surgery. But it’s been two years since the trade, Pineda turns 25 in January, and the Yankees need to get some actually production out of him.

BanuelosRamirezREADY REPLACEMENTS
A few ways to prioritize the minor league starters who are most prepared to step into a Major League role next season. Brett Marshall had a down year, but he did lead Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in innings and got his feet wet in the big leagues (he’s the most experienced of the bunch). Long reliever Chase Whitley has pitched well in Triple-A for two years, and now the Yankees are experimenting with him as a starter (he’s certainly on the verge as a bullpen option, but the rotation is less certain). Jose Ramirez was outstanding in big league camp, terrific in Double-A and got a few Triple-A innings before being shut down with an injury (stands out as a very good upper-level arm). Then there’s the Double-A rotation of Shane Greene, Nik Turley, Matt Tracy, Zach Nuding and Mikey O’Brien (all solid-to-good prospects, none of whom has emerged as a real superstar standout). In other words, there several upper-level possibilities who could be Major League ready at some point next year, but there’s good and bad with each one. Greene had a great year, Ramirez has shown tremendous flashes, and the Whitley experiment is intriguing, but there’s no just-a-matter-of-time replacement here. Which brings us to, perhaps, the most intriguing of potentially ready rotation replacements: Manny Banuelos. Before 2012, he was legitimately one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, and he did carry some of that just-a-matter-of-time expectation. After a season lost to Tommy John surgery, though, Banuelos has to establish himself again. The Yankees say he’s healthy, and he was throwing at the end of the season. He might have fallen into the background for a year, but he still belongs on the radar. His upside is still significant, and a 2014 arrival isn’t out of the question.

DePaulaTOP PROSPECT
It’s impossible to follow the Yankees and not recognize this fact: A top pitching prospect is certainly not a sure thing, even when he’s dominated in the lower levels of the minor leagues. The Yankees had the Hughes, Kennedy Chamberlain trio several years ago, and now all three are out of the organization. More recently, it was Banuelos, Betances and Brackman, and now only one of the three is still considered a starting pitcher (the other two are considered a reliever and a fringe basketball player). The latest Yankees minor leaguer to takeover as the team’s top pitching prospect is 22-year-old Rafael De Paula. This was his first season in the United States, and he opened with a 2.94 ERA and 96 strikeouts through 64.1 innings with Low-A Charleston. Bumped to Tampa, he came back down to earth with a 6.06 ERA and 50 strikeouts in 49 innings. This guy has been talked about for years, and for a while seemed to be more myth than reality, but that strong debut is a pretty good indication of what all the hype is about (and the second half is further proof that hype still needs time to develop). Let there be no doubt, De Paula is legitimately talented, but he’s also inexperienced. He and Jose Campos — the other piece of the Pineda trade — are an interesting one-two punch of potential without polish.

SabathiaSTATE OF THE ORGANIZATION
Lately, the Yankees have had far more success with their non-hyped pitchers — Nova, Phelps, Warren; even Robertson and Claiborne — than with their big-name pitching prospects. And if that continues, the Yankees could be in for a treat of legitimate rotation depth. Guys like Greene, Turley and Ramirez have been sort of second- and third-tier prospects, and they’re now emerging in the upper levels with solid results. They might not be future top-of-the-rotation standouts, but the Yankees do have some upper-level, Phelps-like pitching depth. In the lower levels, they have guys like De Paula, Campos, Ty Hensley, Bryan Mitchell and Ian Clarkin with high-end potential. What’s going to determine whether all of this works in the short term is whether Sabathia gets back on track, Nova finds consistency, Pineda can legitimately contribute, and Banuelos can return from injury to provide that upper-level, high-end pitching prospect that the Yankees currently lack. Back-end depth is great, and the Yankees have a decent amount of that — some of whom could exceed expectations, like Nova did this year — but elite pitching is what’s in demand, and the Yankees can’t be certain they have any of that. The potential is there, but so are questions about production going forward.

Associated Press photo; headshots of Nova, Phelps, Warren, Pineda, Ramirez, Banuelos, De Paula and Sabathia

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526 Responses to “State of the organization: Starting rotation”

  1. blake November 6th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    we have talked a lot about the offense so far this season but if CC pitches to a 5 ERA again then it’s going to be hard for them to win no matter what.

    The rotation pitched over it’s head a good portion of the year in 2013 and kept them afloat…..with Andy retiring and Kuroda possibly gone they can’t count on that again. They need to add a good starter and maybe even 2 good starters.

  2. 4TrainNorth November 6th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Of Ramirez, Banuelos and Pineda, who will be starting a major-league game for the Yankees first?

  3. pkyankfan69 November 6th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    I’d guess Pineda, Banuelos, Ramirez in terms of who will start first… Think Manny still has a chance to be really good but hard to expect much this year, maybe second half.

  4. blake November 6th, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    “Of Ramirez, Banuelos and Pineda, who will be starting a major-league game for the Yankees first?”

    I’ll say Pineda but no clue what he’ll do

  5. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Re-sign Kuroda for $16M ($1M raise), Hughes for $6.15M ($1M paycut which pays for Kuroda’s raise), sign Tanaka for $11M (a year for six years), Nova for $3M.

    Done.

    Sabathia / Kuroda / Tanaka / Nova / Hughes would cost $59.15M, only $2M more than 2013 Sabathia / Kuroda / Pettitte / Nova / Hughes.

    Warren, Phelps, Nuno, Banuelos, Pineda, Huff, and Marshall are PLLLENTY of in-house rotation reinforcement and tradebait.

  6. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    “we have talked a lot about the offense so far this season but if CC pitches to a 5 ERA again then it’s going to be hard for them to win no matter what.

    The rotation pitched over it’s head a good portion of the year in 2013 and kept them afloat…..with Andy retiring and Kuroda possibly gone they can’t count on that again. They need to add a good starter and maybe even 2 good starters.”

    The Yanks’ rotation kept the Yanks interesting and very competitive the first half of the season. Think for a moment how bad this past season would have been if that were flipped. That is, suppose the rotation pitched well in the second half and not the first. Nobody would have watched this team.

    Point well taken Blake. That’s why I believe this is a 75 win team right now. Unless the rotation is improved this off season, the fan base will learn very quickly why mediocrity ain’t so bad.

  7. austinmac November 6th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    I like what we have in the minors for pitching prospects far more than positional. Somehow, I like Turley and think he will make it.

    I have believed for a long time they can’t be competitive under $189 this year. No way, particularly with AROD playing any part of the season. I have read going under $189 is a rebuilding direction. I disagree. Other than keeping the first round pick, how does losing rebuild?

  8. blake November 6th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    “Think for a moment how bad this past season would have been if that were flipped. That is, suppose the rotation pitched well in the second half and not the first. Nobody would have watched this team.”

    yup…..they would have been well out of it by the all star break most likely.

  9. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    If Nova is #3 starter good, Hughes is at least #4 good, and one among Warren, Phelps, Nuno, Banuelos, and Marshall is good enough to win the #5 starter job in 2015 spring training, the 2015 Yankees rotation could be 3/5ths homegrown and 4/5ths under 29 (since Hughes would be 28 in ’15) like this:

    Sabathia / Tanaka / Nova / Hughes re-signed / one from Warren, Phelps, Nuno, Banuelos, and Marshall

    Sign Kershaw or Scherzer and it’s Kershaw or Scherzer / Sabathia / Tanaka / Nova / Hughes.

  10. Doreen November 6th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Another slightly off-topic posted (well,more than slightly). I thought this was a cool video from ESPN on the husband/wife team that drew up MLB’s scheduled for 25 years.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9828164

    It runs about 12 minutes, so save it for when you have some time to watch.

    Sorry for interjecting this stuff, but my mind is numb regarding the Yankees, the 189, and all the other stuff that has been swirling around for awhile. :)

  11. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    It just seems to me the Yankees always get to this point with their farm arms. They have raw talent and when the “development” happens, almost none of them pan out. The reason I think it’s a Yankees’ problem is that when these guys go to other teams, sometimes they do pan out. It would not surprise me if Hughes becomes a solid three elsewhere.

    Something is wrong in the organization when the Yankees cannot translate good stuff into good pitcher.
    The Cardinals appear to offer the complete opposite. Michael Wacha was by no means the type of arm the Yankees couldn’t get access to with their spot in the draft, but there hasn’t been a Michael Wacha on the Yankees in 20 years. Joba offered the most hope and then they made him an emergency reliever.

  12. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Kershaw isn’t going to leave LA and Scherzer is a red herring.

  13. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    If I’m the Yanks I reach out to A.J. Burnett and see if he’d take $8.5M or what they paid towards his 2013 salary.

    They spent $20M on him to not throw a single pitch for them the past two years, so what’s another $8.5M to him to actually pitch for them? If he turns in another 2008 or even just another 2012 or 2013, he’d cost the Yanks $28.5M total 2012-14. ‘Say he posts a 2013 Bartolo Colon-like 2014 for the Yanks – possible when did anyone think Colon would even make it through 2013 let alone 2011? That’s an ace year and definitely worth the $23M Sabathia will be paid in 2014 plus $5.5M (ef it.) If he posts a 30 start, 180 IP, 150 SO, 4 or less ERA, 1.3 or less WHIP 2014 he’s a bargain at $8.5M.

  14. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    Burnett has stated he’s staying in Pittsburgh or retiring. His heart isn’t in it anymore. The Pirates are rumored to go as high as 12 million for him, and he’s been successful and doesn’t have to deal with a large market there.

    Not to mention Cashman would never reach out to Burnett. It would be like asking Carl Pavano to come back. It’s unnecessary.

    There is a 0% chance Burnett comes back, nor would he be anything but a five starter if he did.

  15. kd November 6th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    if one of manban, depaula, ramirez, campos, or helsey becomes a legit 1 or 2, the yankees have something.

    i think they should go out and simply overpay for the best minor league coaching available. it’s the one place where their huge financial advantage could really benefit the big club

  16. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
    Kershaw isn’t going to leave LA and Scherzer is a red herring.

    ———

    You don’t know that for certain, besides that you don’t work in the Dodgers or Tigers front office.

    Kershaw and Scherzer will sign with who gives them the biggest contracts. They most certainly haven’t said they want to be with their respective teams for life because they’d have zero leverage. If you’re not publicly saying “This is who I want to retire with”, you are not 100% coming back.

    If the Yanks offer Kershaw 8-10 years and $25-27M a year, he’ll come here.

    But you can think they won’t come here if it makes you feel better. Either you’re a negative nelly or a Yankee hater.

    BTW where have Kershaw and Scherzer publicly said they never want to leave their respective teams?

  17. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    I never heard Exactly why CC went off the deep end with his Dramatic weight loss. No Dr recommends losing that much weight, over such an extremely short period of time, unless there is a serious health issue mandating this immediate action. If there is no health issue involved, and CC puts some of the lbs back on over the offseason, he will be an Ace once again. His velocity did Not drop of a cliff in 2013, which is what you see when a pitcher of his ilk begins to decline and therefore needs to transition in order to achieve continued success. An athlete at the top of his game requires muscle memory to continually achieve success. At the pro level, it’s difficult for an athlete to Repeatedly get his body to do what he requires it to do, (muscle memory), when the body is basically in a state of shock due to dramatic weight loss over an extremely short period of time.

  18. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    I think you read my comments incorrectly. I said Burnett (the one in his late 30′s) has stated he is staying in Pittsburgh or retiring, not to mention it’d be a terrible move for the Yankees and at your price, it’s already been published the Pirates would go higher, but not as high as the QO they didn’t offer him.

    I never said Kershaw or Scherzer wanted to stay where they are but Kershaw can much more easily be paid by the Dodgers than the Yankees since their pockets are deeper at the moment.

    And Scherzer, I said was a red herring. I wouldn’t lock him up, he’s inefficient and his W/L can be heavily credited to the best run support in baseball. If I told you I had a 15 game winner who threw over 200 innings once in his life, will be 30 years old and has a career 1.23 WHIP, would you be willing to pay him 20 million a year? Because that’s how you lock up Scherzer.

  19. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Just changing the subject a bit. A couple months ago a wrote a post concerning what I thought were the three most positive minor league developments over the 2013 season. Not a whole lot to choose from but No. 3 on that list was Cito Culver.

    Now the book on Cito is that he’s got a legitimate ML arm and glove. Last year was his first year just batting right-handed. Mostly unimpressive in the Sally League, he spent a short time at Tampa and really hit. Was it 50 odd at bats? Very small sample size. But I’ll tell you this. He’ll probably be the first minor leaguer I’ll follow closely next year. If Tampa last season wasn’t a mirage, he’ll be promoted to Trenton by mid-season. If he doesn’t embarrass himself there with the bat and still shows a ML glove, I think he’s the Yanks’ starting SS in 2015. You have to remember, the offensive bar is so low for a SS now that anyone who can really field in AA and hit just bit will rightfully skip AAA if a spot is open. And I think a spot will be open.

  20. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Vince November 6th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    Burnett has stated he’s staying in Pittsburgh or retiring. His heart isn’t in it anymore. The Pirates are rumored to go as high as 12 million for him, and he’s been successful and doesn’t have to deal with a large market there.

    Not to mention Cashman would never reach out to Burnett. It would be like asking Carl Pavano to come back. It’s unnecessary.

    There is a 0% chance Burnett comes back, nor would he be anything but a five starter if he did.

    ———

    Burnett had a bad 2011-12 for the Yanks but he was no Carl Pavano 2005-08, not even close. He actually gave them starts, innings, and strikeouts in 2011-12 unlike Pavano who had a grand total of nine starts 2006-08 and 26 starts 2005-08.

    ‘Funny you mentioned Pavano because he is planning to make a comeback and the Yanks should sign him to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training. He would be a total no to low-risk, high-reward signing. I’d give him a year and $900K i.e. what the Yanks gave Bartolo Colon for 2011. 2005-08 is a long time ago and maybe he gives the Yanks 5-10 decent starts which is pretty damn good for $900K.

    http://www.themlbnation.com/20.....-comeback/

    A rumor is rumor re: Burnett. Whether Pittsburgh will commit $12M or more to Burnett is another story.

    I say the Yanks should make the offer even if he turns it down and regardless of what he says – how ya like them apples?

    Do you have some inside track to teams and players or something? Doubt it. I never said I did.

    Yeah he’d be a fifth starter who’d give the Yanks 30-33 starts, 180-200 IP, 140-160 SO, that’s so bad and that’s what Phelps, Nuno, Marshall, Warren, Huff, Banuelos, or Pineda (who’s been out of baseball for TWO FULL YEARS) will give them, right PSSSSHHH

  21. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Obviously he’s not Pavano, but he was run out of town the same way. The Yankees paid Burnett to play elsewhere, that’s how absolutely dreadful he was for two full years.
    Sure, offer Pavano a minor league contract, no issues there.
    If he keeps them in the game 10 times than great, but it has nothing to do with Burnett, who actually has leverage.

    There’s nothing wrong with the Yankees making an offer, I just don’t think they would and would hope he doesn’t accept it since he would be terrible in the AL East. Two years ago, he was a 5+ ERA in the AL East only aided by some interleague starts and you want to throw over 8 million at him to be a fifth starter and give you 185 crappy innings? Be my guest, I wouldn’t do it.

    Pineda pitched a decent amount in the minors so he has not been out of baseball for two full years. He’s also in his mid 20′s, not his late 30′s with a diminishing fastball and big market problems.

  22. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    You are literally proposing offering AJ Burnett 8.5 million dollars to be some sort of starter we don’t need to fill in a year the Yankees have 70 million dollars to distribute to 18 roster spots. It’s lunacy.

  23. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Nuno hasn’t pitched in quite some time down in the AFL. I hope he isn’t hurt again. You saw what happened when Austin wasn’t getting playing time.

  24. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    “Now the book on Cito is that he’s got a legitimate ML arm and glove. Last year was his first year just batting right-handed. Mostly unimpressive in the Sally League, he spent a short time at Tampa and really hit. Was it 50 odd at bats?”

    i’ve just seen him play a little bit but if he can ever learn to hit at all he will be a big leaguer and could become a starting SS……SS’s are so rare these days…..we have seen Jose Iglesias come along with great defensive ability and he just learned to at least hold his on offensively and suddenly he’s the Tigers SS.

    Culver can play the position defensively…..it’ll just depend on whether he can learn to hit enough. This isn’t the 80′s where a team is gonna give Ozzie Smith 5 years to learn to hit…..but it’s also an era of very weak SS’s so we will see but I agree he’s one to follow next year.

  25. Triple Short of a Cycle November 6th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    You are literally proposing offering AJ Burnett 8.5 million dollars to be some sort of starter we don’t need to fill in a year the Yankees have 70 million dollars to distribute to 18 roster spots. It’s lunacy.

    ————————————————————

    You are talking to a lunatic which explains the lunacy

  26. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    lol Triple,

    I don’t get to comment much, I don’t know the expectations. Thank you for the heads up.

  27. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    We will see how long Detroit sticks with Iglesias as a full-time SS. To me, the guy is a decent utility IF’er that Boston puffed up and got Detroit to bite. I would take Nunez over Iglesias anyday.

  28. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Donny, I fall somewhere between. I think Iglesias is significantly better than Nunez but I do agree he’s a super utility man. A poor man’s, poor man’s Omar Vizquel. Boston got a ring out of the deal and the White Sox got the better prospect.

  29. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    I highly doubt AJ would come back and pitch for the Yankees anyway….

  30. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Looking at the pic above, can somebody tell why Pineda can’t wear his hat straight? I first noticed that in ST of 2012. Then saw that Felix Hernandez did the same thing so I guess it’s cool.

  31. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    duh must be able to type like 500 words per minute

  32. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    if the Rangers are shopping Elvis then the Yankees should be all over that.

  33. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    I think you read my comments incorrectly. I said Burnett (the one in his late 30?s) has stated he is staying in Pittsburgh or retiring, not to mention it’d be a terrible move for the Yankees and at your price, it’s already been published the Pirates would go higher, but not as high as the QO they didn’t offer him.

    ————————-

    My price is what the Yanks paid Burnett to not pitch for them in 2013 and it’s not a high price for a guy who gives the starts, innings, and strikeouts he has given most of his career including his time with the Yanks and the Pirates at all. You can’t automatically assume Burnett will be as bad as he was in 2010-11 just as much as I can’t assume he’ll be as good as he was before 2010 and with the Pirates. What I do know is he is a durable innings eater and strikeout guy (even at his advanced age) something NO ONE in the Yankees current rotation outside of Sabathia and maybe Kuroda if he returns is a lock to be, not even Nova who still hasn’t cracked 30 GS and 180 IP in a season.

    “I never said Kershaw or Scherzer wanted to stay where they are but Kershaw can much more easily be paid by the Dodgers than the Yankees since their pockets are deeper at the moment.”

    How do you know they’re deeper? They committed alot of money to Ethier, Kemp, Crawford, Beckett, and Gonzalez who have their problems going into 2014 like they’re a year older and have had a recent history of underplaying for their contract (or enough to be jettisoned out of Boston in the case of the latter three.)

    “And Scherzer, I said was a red herring. I wouldn’t lock him up, he’s inefficient and his W/L can be heavily credited to the best run support in baseball. If I told you I had a 15 game winner who threw over 200 innings once in his life, will be 30 years old and has a career 1.23 WHIP, would you be willing to pay him 20 million a year? Because that’s how you lock up Scherzer.”

    Hold up. First off, 30 or even 31 is not old. The Yanks signed Mike Mussina age 32 after he posted his third-highest single-season ERA for the Orioles and he posted a 1.223 or higher WHIP half his Yankee career, so I’ll gladly take 1.23 WHIP from Scherzer. Second, Schezer is not a “red herring”, he’s a 73-45 career pitcher who has made 30 or more starts, pitched at least 170 1/3 innings, and struck out at least 174 batters a year for the past half-decade, who is just coming into his own. He will win the 2013 A.L. Cy Young Award. If he posts a 2014 approximate to that, yeah, he’s worth $20M a year, especially if $23M a year 2014-15, $25M for 2015 Sabathia turns in another bad season. If Scherzer turns in another 2012 (nice but not great year), he’s still worth $20M a year because that’s what the market will bear and see his 2013. You want to miss out on him returning to 2013 form in 2015? 2016? Name me an AL starter who’s a free agent after 2014 better than Scherzer besides John Lester, if Lester even makes it to free agency as he may decide he wants a third World Series ring and more WS rings with Boston. That’s one guy I could see staying put before he hits the free agent market.

    Scherzer will have to be locked up after his six years in MLB unless he really, REALLY sucks in 2014 or he misses significant time which I doubt will happen. I’m assuming Scherzer will approximate his 2012 or 2013. If the guy gives the Tigers 200 IP, 180 SO, and a 3-3.40 ERA, I definitely lock him up.

  34. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    ” I would take Nunez over Iglesias anyday.”

    lol

  35. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Big – It’s a style thing.

    Blake: I feel like he would be an overpayment for what he is, which is a base stealer with solid defense. He’s a poor man’s Ellsbury. He is not an OBP guy, doesn’t have any power or OPS whatsoever and he’s signed to a long-term deal, but I still think Texas would demand a blue chipper.

    I would love to have a healthy Andrus and Gardner in the lineup but Kevin Long might faint if he needs to come up with a concept for scoring outside of the right field wall.

    People seem to forget in 2009 the Yankees were 6th in SB and 1st in SB%

  36. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    career in the big leagues.

    Iglesias: .274 .325 .354 .678 \
    Nunez: .260 .307 .372 .679

    Iglesias is an elite level defender at SS…..Nunez can’t even play SS.

  37. austinmac November 6th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Nuno last pitched on the 31st. The league had there little all star break so I don’t see evidence yet of a problem.

  38. DONNYBROOK November 6th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Nunez can hit for power. The difference between the 2 players right now, it that Boston shipped out Middlebrooks and played Iglesias almost daily for better than 3 months. Nunez has been jerked around repeatedly as all of us around here know.

  39. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    vince,

    here is my case for Andrus. 1) he’s an elite defender at SS and he’s 25 years old
    2) I don’t really believe his 2013 numbers. Up until this season he was on a pretty steady trend upwards offensively…..he was getting better every year. Until the first half of this year when he struggled…..but if you look closer you’ll see that it wasn’t really a bad year but more like a bad 1st half. he hit .313 .369.405 .774 in the 2nd half this year and IMO that’s a lot closer to what he could be with the bat.

    There would be some risk in taking him on…..but he’s a 3 or 4 WAR player now with the potential to become a 5 or 6 WAR player as he enters his prime.

  40. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Nunez has hit 10 homers in 270 big league games…..he has like Gardner power or less.

  41. kd November 6th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    andrus or starling castro?

    gonna hurt to trade for either one

  42. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    What do you hope to accomplish with Burnett in the rotation? 180 innings? Phelps and Nova can both do that if they’re healthy and they may be crappy just like Burnett’s. You’re asking for 185 innings for the sake of giving someone 33 starts. That’s 5.6 innings per start. Burnett didn’t eclipse 180 innings on the Yankees because he was good, he did it because he stayed healthy and they didn’t have a choice.

    I know they’re deeper because they don’t have a self imposed luxury salary cap. It also would make no sense for LA to sign everyone they’ve signed and not resign the best pitcher in baseball. Nor would it make sense for the Yankees to give 200 million dollars to a pitcher since every team in baseball would be in on it.

    And my point on Scherzer is you usually don’t come into your own as a 30-year-old and even if you do a couple of years late, you’re paying for maybe 2-3 solid years but the contract will be more than twice that. The Yankees dodged a bullet in CC’s first contract and now they’re gonna pay for the extension. I don’t want two guys on the payroll getting paid 40 million to be a 2 and a 3 starter. Scherzer pitches in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball. He’s a fine arm, he’s just not the guy I built my rotation around. And to answer your question, I don’t want to give ANYONE that money until the Yankees are an arm or two away just like they were going into 2009.

    They aren’t right now. They have a lot more issues to address like building a core.

  43. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Andrus has been worth his contract all but a half of a season over the last 3 years. I tend to believe he had a bad half more than he’s declining as a player at age 25……actually he’ll probably get better. I doubt he’ll ever but a consistent .800 OPS hitter but I could see him routinely OPSing over .750 with a .280-.300 BA and 25-30 steals a year and great defense. Sign me up for that please.

  44. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Blake, I like Andrus, I just think he would cost more than he would translate.

  45. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    “andrus or starling castro?

    gonna hurt to trade for either one”

    tough call….Castro has much more potential as a pure hitter and is 2 years younger but he also isn’t likely to stick at SS long term wheras Andrus is a great defender at the position.

    Both have real contracts but Castro’s is better……I’d probably lean more towards him because he’s younger…..because his contract is better…..and because when in doubt I always would rather have the bat…….but I’d be tickled if they could get either one.

  46. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Vince,
    maybe but if Texas asked the Yanks to take Andrus’s whole contract then I don’t see how they could ask a lot in prospects too…..

  47. kd November 6th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    it would be a huge coup for the yankees if they could get either one. a middle of the diamond with cano would be pretty impressive for a few years at least

  48. blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Scherzer’s track record doesn’t suggest he’s the guy he was this year…..he’s got incredible stuff but he’s never been able to repeat his delivery all that well until this season. Was it real change or was he just in a groove this year? He could show up in ST the same guy he always was and 2013 could be the outlier…..

  49. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Would be interesting, but they may just trade Kinsler and get a better return. Interestingly, of the teams in need of a SS and who can afford that kind of commitment, only the Yankees, Tigers Giants and Mets would truly match up (and I guess the Nats if they want to move on from their situation)

  50. Duh Innings II November 6th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    Obviously he’s not Pavano, but he was run out of town the same way. The Yankees paid Burnett to play elsewhere, that’s how absolutely dreadful he was for two full years.
    Sure, offer Pavano a minor league contract, no issues there.
    If he keeps them in the game 10 times than great, but it has nothing to do with Burnett, who actually has leverage.

    ——————————————-

    The Yanks should definitely sign Pavano. Again, 2005-08 was a long time ago and he had three decent seasons after he left the Yanks. He held the Yanks scoreless through six plus innings before serving up a two-run shot to Posada in the 2009 ALDS and finished that game with a 7 IP 5 H 2 ER 0 BB 9 SO line.

    Burnett doesn’t have leverage because if he turns down $8.5M from the Yanks, no big deal, see ya. I never said it was IMPERATIVE the Yanks sign him. In fact, $8.5M is perfectly respectable when if Pittsburgh is indeed offering $12M, he can’t expect $12M from the Yanks who play in the league with the DH and much tougher bottom of the order since there’s no free out in pitcher batting. If he’s worth $12M in the NL, $8.5M is just about right in the AL. It’s not like the Yanks are giving Burnett a raise, they’re paying him what they paid towards him for 2013. If he sucks ass after 10 starts, hey, he gave them more value than he did in 2013, and who’s to say a Yankee farm kid would’ve done better? You really want to entrust the backend of the rotation to two farm kids with barely any MLB experience? Pineda hasn’t pitched in two full years, !@#$ him, sick of hearing about him. Yeah yeah yeah 2011, so what?

    “There’s nothing wrong with the Yankees making an offer, I just don’t think they would and would hope he doesn’t accept it since he would be terrible in the AL East. Two years ago, he was a 5+ ERA in the AL East only aided by some interleague starts and you want to throw over 8 million at him to be a fifth starter and give you 185 crappy innings? Be my guest, I wouldn’t do it.”

    Fair enough, but sometimes guys come back better. Look at Bartolo Colon. Where was he before the Yanks signed him? Granted he was a better pitcher than Burnett before injuries almost killed his career but did you, I, or anyone else expect the man to turn in the 2011 he had then turn in two more solid seasons after that? 2.65 ERA at age 40? You say Burnett will turn out 185 crappy innings, well where is it written in stone that any of the farmhands will turn in even 100 innings crappy or not? The Yanks need proven durable, innings-eating strikeout guys, Burnett is one of them: at least 25 starts and 165 2/3 IP 8 out of the last 9 years, 30 or more starts and 173 or more SO in 7 of the last 9 years, 30 or more starts each of the last six seasons including his bad ones with the Yanks. He posted 173 SO in 190 1/3 IP across 32 starts for the 2011 Yanks. I would KILL for that from a Yankee farm hand or anyone. 5.15 ERA I know but maybe he can chop it down to 4.50.

    “Pineda pitched a decent amount in the minors so he has not been out of baseball for two full years. He’s also in his mid 20?s, not his late 30?s with a diminishing fastball and big market problems.”

    He hasn’t pitched an MLB game since 2011, so he’s out of baseball as far as I’m concerned. Besides he has shown up to spring training fat and out of shape and was busted for DUI. You want to entrust the fifth starter job to him? I sure don’t. Jesus Montero has flopped for the Ms but he’s given the Ms wayyy more than Pineda has given the Yanks.

    “Vince November 6th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    You are literally proposing offering AJ Burnett 8.5 million dollars to be some sort of starter we don’t need to fill in a year the Yankees have 70 million dollars to distribute to 18 roster spots. It’s lunacy.”

    It’s not lunacy. You know what’s lunacy? Signing a 31-year old secondbaseman who has never had a 2012-13 Miguel Cabrera type season in nine seasons for $50M or more than what Cabrera took from the Tigers and $90M or more than what Pedroia took to stay with Boston. Thinking Sabathia is lock to be ace or #2 good, Nova #3 good, and two farmhands including one who hasn’t thrown a pitch in the majors in two full seasons (Pineda) to be the backend of the rotation.

    I would actually be thrilled if the Yanks re-signed Kuroda for $16M, Burnett for $8.5M and Pavano for $900K because while they’re old, they’re all veteran innings eaters not to mention low-risk high-reward one-year commitments. Sabathia/Kuroda/Nova/Burnett/Pavano would be the ultimate underdog, nothing to lose rotation. The baseball world would laugh at the Yanks but stop laughing if Sabathia retuned to form or close to it, Kuroda and Nova kept doing what they did in 2013, Burnett-Pavano pulled a 2011 Garcia-Colon (or 2005 Small-Chacon), or the Yanks made a deal for a starter if only one from Burnett and Pavano panned out.

  51. tom tresh 15 November 6th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Another Cuban defection. Would be interested in kicking the tires
    *******************************************************************Raicel Iglesias Defects From Cuba
    By Steve Adams [November 6 at 1:47pm CST]

    The number of recent Cuban defectors continues to grow, as reports from Diario de Cuba and the Havana Times have indicated that right-hander Raicel Iglesias has successfully defected from the country. Ibrahim Rojas of CMHS Radio Caibarién tells MLBTR that Iglesias is currently in Mexico.

    Iglesias, 23, was detained on his first attempt to defect after running out of food and water while hiding in the mountains. In his second effort, which reportedly took place on Oct. 9, he successfully fled the country by sea. Iglesias is said by Ben Badler of Baseball America to possess a 92-95 mph fastball with a swing-and-miss breaking ball but questionable control. Badler feels that Iglesias would likely have to begin his pro career in the U.S. by starting in the minor leagues.

    Because Iglesias is 23 years old and has more than three years of professional experience, he can sign for any amount and will not count against a team’s international signing pool.

  52. kschappert November 6th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Nunez actually has double-triple power-showed this year he can hit some and absolutely cannot play SS–Yanks need #3 starter-Kuroda’s obviously gone

  53. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Andrus cleared waivers, that means the Rangers placed him on waivers twice and that means the second time a team could have claimed him if willing to pay his contract alone (no trade required) and that means the Rangers were willing to give away his contract. Andrus would thus, cost zero talent if you absorb the full contract. I don’t know where this notion of him being expensive talent wise comes from. He would not cost any talent.

  54. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Duh,

    We can agree to disagree. Signing Pavano, Kuroda, Burnett has a CHANCE to make the Yankees better in 2014, what it does is gives no chance to make them better in a year that actually matters. The Yankees are not winning the WS this year or likely even going to it.

    If the main goal is 189, than do it and get it over with. I’m not a big fan of giving Cano much more than a 7/168 offer. He’s superior to Pedroia all around and Miggy’s contract came in a different landscape and before he was doing what he has turned out to do.

    But 26 million or so to those three pitchers is not something I’m interested in, I would offer Kuroda his same contract and use the other 10 million elsewhere. Go with CC/Kuroda/Pineda/Phelps and sign a few veterans, take another high draft pick and rebuild the right way and go after Tanaka for the 10 million or so per year it would take to get Burnett and Pavano.
    That’s personally how I feel, but if the Yankees are going to spend, than do it on better products than retreads who didn’t succeed here the first time when they were closer to their primes.

    Colon succeeded here because he (not so) magically started throwing 96MPH again. Burnett’s velocity has been dwindling year after year, he’s not going to improve by moving from Pittsburgh’s pitcher’s park in the NL with no DH to the AL East in a hitter’s park for a fly ball pitcher with a DH.

  55. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Andrus cleared waivers, that means the Rangers placed him on waivers twice and that means the second time a team could have claimed him if willing to pay his contract alone (no trade required) and that means the Rangers were willing to give away his contract. Andrus would thus, cost zero talent if you absorb the full contract. I don’t know where this notion of him being expensive talent wise comes from. He would not cost any talent.

    __________

    And that’s why anyone willing to give up talent to acquire him, even if it’s only Nunez, doesn’t understand Andrus’ non-existent trade value.

  56. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Andrus cleared waivers, that means the Rangers placed him on waivers twice and that means the second time a team could have claimed him if willing to pay his contract alone (no trade required) and that means the Rangers were willing to give away his contract. ”

    I’m not sure they put him on irrevocable waivers…..link? They put him on the same waivers everyone puts everybody on

  57. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    @RiverAveBlues: Slusser: Yankees have interest in Grant Balfour http://t.co/cqmsa3ZBvd

  58. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Blake,

    The reports said he cleared waivers and nobody made a claim, that’s why the news was notable as far as I know.

  59. Tackelberry November 6th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    tom tresh 15 November 6th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
    Another Cuban defection. Would be interested in kicking the tires
    *******************************************************************Raicel Iglesias Defects From Cuba
    By Steve Adams [November 6 at 1:47pm CST]

    The number of recent Cuban defectors continues to grow, as reports from Diario de Cuba and the Havana Times have indicated that right-hander Raicel Iglesias has successfully defected from the country. Ibrahim Rojas of CMHS Radio Caibarién tells MLBTR that Iglesias is currently in Mexico.

    Iglesias, 23, was detained on his first attempt to defect after running out of food and water while hiding in the mountains. In his second effort, which reportedly took place on Oct. 9, he successfully fled the country by sea. Iglesias is said by Ben Badler of Baseball America to possess a 92-95 mph fastball with a swing-and-miss breaking ball but questionable control. Badler feels that Iglesias would likely have to begin his pro career in the U.S. by starting in the minor leagues.

    Because Iglesias is 23 years old and has more than three years of professional experience, he can sign for any amount and will not count against a team’s international signing pool.

    __________________________________________

    Yanks were on this kid when it was reported erroneously that he defected the first time. Now that he has succesfully made it here, I’m sure they weill be on him again. Guess it’ll take awhile before he establishes residency and then is cleared to sign with a MLB team.

  60. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    “The reports said he cleared waivers and nobody made a claim, that’s why the news was notable as far as I know.”

    That doesn’t mean anything though…..lots of guys clear waivers……it just means nobody claimed him. If somebody had claimed him then Texas could have worked out a trade or pulled him back.

  61. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Texas Rangers shortstop Elvis Andrus has cleared waivers and is now eligible to be traded to any team, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. Knobler notes that the Rangers have no intention of trading Andrus, and that his clearing of waivers comes as no surprise.

    Andrus, 24, has had a disappointing 2013 season, hitting .255 with 1 HR and 40 RBI in 118 games for the Rangers. He signed an 8-year, $120 million extension before the season, and his high price tag means that no team was willing to put in a claim once he hit the waiver wire.

    ______________

    He was not placed on irrevocable waivers but still he’s not exactly a hot commodity according to this.

  62. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Bret,
    A lot of players are sent through, and clear, waivers. It doesn’t mean he can be had for just salary, it means now Texas can trade him anywhere they want and work out a trade.

  63. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “He was not placed on irrevocable waivers but still he’s not exactly a hot commodity according to this.”

    Keep in mind that many teams aren’t in a position to add that sort of payroll in August either because they are already at their budget limit or because they are out of the playoff race.

    Plus if a team claims a player then the team has no shopping power……often this landing just in case some contender wants the player and is willing to overpay for them…..so I wouldn’t make a ton of it and I doubt Texas would just give Andrus away.

    At the same time his contract is substantial and he’s coming off a bad year (made look bad bad his first half) so he’s a great buy low candidate if they will sell low

  64. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    “The reports said he cleared waivers and nobody made a claim, that’s why the news was notable as far as I know.”

    That doesn’t mean anything though…..lots of guys clear waivers……it just means nobody claimed him. If somebody had claimed him then Texas could have worked out a trade or pulled him back.

    __________

    If unclaimed, he could be traded to anyone. If a team wanted him badly enough they could have made a claim and entered into exclusive negotiations. Nobody wanted that privilege. His salary was a deterrent from a team grabbing a position to enter into exclusive negotiations. Instead all GM’s possibly interested were willing to let other GM’s bid for him.

    His value is thus not that high if GM’s would invite competition and allow Texas to shop him around freely. If his trade value were significant, some GM, at least one GM would have made a claim and tried to work out a trade leveraging exclusive negotiating rights and a willingness to pay the contract.

  65. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Bret, entering exclusive trading rights can actually hurt a team’s negotiation because it’s a small window and a big salary commitment.

  66. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    If you let a player slide to other GM’s then you’re not exactly helping your negotiation. You can leave the negotiation if you claim him and you don’t like the demands.

  67. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    The way I see it is every GM is daring Texas to shop him around. All 30. There is no threat out there because his salary is a major deterrent that devalues Andrus.

  68. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    If you operate under the assumption there would be a big market for Andrus. It’s a fine line. Say you’re the Yankees and you badly want him.

    You claim him through waivers in August (Jeter, Nunez and Ryan on the roster or DL) you then have a two day or so window to work out a trade and take on that money and have that money on the books as an annual salary in 2014. If you fail to work out a deal, Andrus cannot be traded the rest of the year.

    If you wait, and don’t claim him, you have the entire offseason to “kick the tires” on Andrus, not make it seem like you are so desperate to have him, and their price likely comes down because the deadline always demands more than the offseason for a long-term contract. The market for him can’t be that huge because half the teams in baseball can’t afford that kind of commitment or don’t want to and another portion have a franchise SS.

  69. Giuseppe Franco November 6th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Andrus cleared waivers, that means the Rangers placed him on waivers twice and that means the second time a team could have claimed him if willing to pay his contract alone (no trade required) and that means the Rangers were willing to give away his contract. Andrus would thus, cost zero talent if you absorb the full contract. I don’t know where this notion of him being expensive talent wise comes from. He would not cost any talent.

    ——

    That’s baloney. Talented ballplayers who make a lot of money get put through waivers every year. Every team does it.

    That does not prove he wouldn’t be costly in a trade.

  70. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Bret I think your overstating the significance of him cleaning waivers…..it’s not that uncommon…..for all we know Cano cleared waivers too last year and nobody claimed him because they knew the yanks woukd just pull him back

  71. Giuseppe Franco November 6th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    It appears Blake and Vince beat me to it.

    Texas putting him on waivers means nada.

  72. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Bret The Hitman says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    The way I see it is every GM is daring Texas to shop him around. All 30. There is no threat out there because his salary is a major deterrent that devalues Andrus.

    His salary does devalue him…..which is why Id like to get him…..but that doesn’t mean they’d give him away

  73. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    And furthermore, the earliest the Yankees would pursue Andrus is next winter since they just gave 12 million to one guy who is unlikely to play SS the whole season and will probably resign Ryan and use Nunez either as a backup or a 3B. They’e not gonna sink 25 million+ into SS to get 45SB.

  74. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    If you anticipate a big market for a player, you try to stay ahead of it. You make the claim. If you anticipate a small market (and it is) you let him slide (and they did).

    The market for Andrus is very small and that’s because his contract is difficult to absorb – it lowers his trade value significantly.

  75. champ809 November 6th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
    Nunez has hit 10 homers in 270 big league games…..he has like Gardner power or less.
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Nuney’s hit 10 HRs in 700 plate appearances while Andrus has hit 18 HRs in 3200 plate appearences.

    You do all this projecting for Andrus where the truth is in the 5yrs he’s been in the league his slash line is almost identical to Nunez’s.

    The difference is bginning next season Elvis will cost $100 mil which is why there are no takers for him. For as good a player as he is he will be egregiously overpaid unless he becomes a completely different offensive player.

  76. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Vince,

    No kidding. The Yankees have no interest in Andrus right now. It’s not worth talking about.

  77. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Not only will Andrus be overpaid, he will be overpaid through 2023.

  78. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    champ809 November 6th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Nuney’s hit 10 HRs in 700 plate appearances while Andrus has hit 18 HRs in 3200 plate appearences.

    You do all this projecting for Andrus where the truth is in the 5yrs he’s been in the league his slash line is almost identical to Nunez’s.

    The difference is bginning next season Elvis will cost $100 mil which is why there are no takers for him. For as good a player as he is he will be egregiously overpaid unless he becomes a completely different offensive player.

    ____________

    This is what I’m trying to say here. GM’s don’t want this guy. And the Yankees shouldn’t ever pay 100 M through a decade plus significant talent in prospects for an upgrade on defense.

  79. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Glad to have you back Bret, you were not missed ;)

  80. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Yeah, honestly, If you can get power on the corners (3B, 1B, LF and RF) speed and defense up the middle (SS, 2B, CF) and athleticism behind the plate, that’s how I’d build my team. Just like having 1-2 veterans, two power arms and a young gun in the rotation.

  81. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    If this source, and the ESPN story is accurate, 189 is out. You can’t pursue Cano, McCann and Tanaka and stay under threshold.

    Interesting that Yanks allegedly offered Cano 6-7 years at $25-$30MM per and believe that will be the best offer out there. Don’t expect a response untilDecember. In the mean time, hot after McCann??

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....src=mobile

  82. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    @RiverAveBlues: Slusser: Yankees have interest in Grant Balfour http://t.co/cqmsa3ZBvd
    ================
    NYY’s don’t have faith in DRob, they will get a closer.
    DRob is good at what he does and throws too many balls to be the closer.

  83. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Once they get Cano the 189m is out.
    Mission accomplished.

  84. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    I think if you look at the totality of the info out there, especially the QOs given to Kuroda and Granderson, 189 looks done.

  85. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    Big, I hope that’s true…

    But that doesn’t mean 189 is out. Tanaka is my top target by far, he’s the exact sort of signing they need right now.

    No pick, not a huge yearly contract, entering his prime and a pitcher.

    It wouldn’t kill me to see them get McCann since we have a DH slot, but I don’t want to give up the pick.

    Where I disagree with the Yankee FO is Granderson. If he rejects the QO, please let him walk. Someone is gonna sign him for something and it’s a vital extra pick.

    I agree on Cano, and if he walks, he walks. If he doesn’t, you got him at your budget.

  86. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    “Nuney’s hit 10 HRs in 700 plate appearances while Andrus has hit 18 HRs in 3200 plate appearences.”

    Andrus is better at everything else so I don’t see the point ….and again you’re talking about an elite defender vs a guy that can’t even play big league level defense

  87. Giuseppe Franco November 6th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    The Yankees interest in the former Braves catcher is not news — our own Andrew Marchand broke it down last week — but it does confirm that the experiment of trying to get by with a defensive catcher is over, and that the Yankees recognize that they need more offense behind the plate. That means it’s back to back-up duty for the Chris Stewarts and Francisco Cervellis of the world.

    ——

    I certainly hope this is accurate, although Girardi may shed a tear or two.

  88. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Bret The Hitman says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm
    Not only will Andrus be overpaid, he will be overpaid through 2023.

    I think he will end up being worth that contract …..he has been each of the last 3 seasons aside from the first half of 2013

  89. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    Do any players just want to play fro the Yankees anymore and would take less to play here?
    That’s what they are looking for but it’s very very hard to find.
    McCann’s eyes should light up when YS is mentioned with that short porch.

  90. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    I think it does mean 189 is out Vince. Tanaka is still going to cost you 10-12MM a year. Add that to Cano and you can’t afford any free agent out there and stay under 189. Not Kuroda, not Granderson and especially not McCann.

  91. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    Any comparison of Nunez to Andrus is invalid because Nunez doesn’t play the same position ……Nunez cant play any position

  92. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    So if the Yanks were to give up any picks and gain a few back, isn’t it a wash?

  93. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Mick,

    Glad to be around when I can be, Mick :)

  94. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    mick says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:48 pm
    So if the Yanks were to give up any picks and gain a few back, isn’t it a wash?

    Not really….. The talent gap between picking 18th and 35th can be significant

  95. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Mick:
    It is except they will lose 18th pick the second they sign one of the 10 guys offered a QO.
    The picks they get from their own guys leaving are somewhere after the 30th.

  96. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Bret, We need your humor and lunacy more often as it can get stale here.
    Sometimes, even dull. All this serious baseball talk and all…

  97. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Vince: Thanks for the info. I can’t keep up with all this technical stuff like some of the geniuses here.

  98. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    The best argument against McCann was pointed out I think on another site. In 2 or 3 years he has to be moved to first base, and there his production is only average. He’s a great example of the right player at the wrong price.

  99. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Mick,

    I think that you may be onto something there. The Yankees will sign some guys to keep them under heading into final negotiations with Cano. The fact they’re willing to go higher annually in order to shorten the length may be a tip off regarding 189. There should be a parade of cheaper, secondary pieces that precede him finalizing his deal.

    Who do you think?

    Salty? Balfour? Tanaka?

    Smaller fish first?

    Then Cano and Choo (Boras loves to wait out the market)?

  100. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Dan, you’re assuming Cano accepts. We also don’t know the A-Rod finale yet.

    Best case from a payroll perspective? Cano walks and A-Rod is suspended the full year. That’s a 38 million dollar swing and cancels out the extra 11 million they would have paid Cano.

    Tanaka at 10-12 is replacing Pettitte. Remove Kuroda and Rivera’s salaries and that’s the gap from their current payroll to where they need to be. Go in house to replace Kuroda and Mo.

    And all of a sudden you have Logan, Hughes, Chamberlain, Granderson salaries to cover arb and seek FA.

    That’s what, 25 million?

    In a worst case scenario, they can get Tanaka, resign Cano and probably sign one more guy (Salty?)

    In a best case scenario, they have plenty of money.

  101. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    If i’m the Yankees, Tanaka is my CC 2009 signing. Get him on the books as quickly as possible. Then yeah, you’re looking at a Balfour or Salty. After you secure those two, let the rest fall into place as it will.

  102. blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    “The best argument against McCann was pointed out I think on another site. In 2 or 3 years he has to be moved to first base, and there his production is only average. He’s a great example of the right player at the wrong price.”

    His production woukd actually be good at DH though….. Again it all comes back to the plan…..if they put a contending team together and McCann helps them make runs at titles over the next 3 years then hands the reigns off to Sanchez then the contract was worth it even if he becomes a .750 OPS DH the last couple years of it…….but if not then it’s pointless

  103. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Brett,
    I love Balfour’s take no sh!t moxie and would leave DRob at set up.
    Tanaka is a no brainer.
    I’d pass on Salty.

  104. Bret The Hitman November 6th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Who do you want for catcher, Mick?

  105. mick November 6th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Who knows? Balfour might just want to play here.
    Nathan would also be OK.
    Making DRob the closer would upset the pen as the setup man would be too much up in the air.

  106. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    You could rock Benoit and have him and D Rob fall into place at a fraction of the price….But I’m OK with Balfour, not crazy about Nathan. Less long-term potential there.

  107. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Vince, the Yanks supposedly have an outstanding offer to Cano. They have to operate as if he’s going to accept until the offer is withdrawn. You can’t make any other offers to other free agents while the offer is outstanding and not treat that money as spent.

    I made this point this morning when I was analyzing Cash’s statement about Cano (which are very consistent with this ESPN story). The tell is what the Yanks do before Cano signs. Any offers to big free agents (other than Tanaka) like Grandy, Kuroda, Choo, or McCann before Cano signs means 189 is dead.

  108. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    I agree with you except I think they can fit Tanaka and another piece in there in addition to Cano and not even taking into account A-Rod. A-Rod to me is a bonus though, use his salary dump as trade deadline salary.

  109. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Brett, I know you love Navarro but, a 2-3 year contract for McCann would be nice.
    I like Ruiz if he has anything left.

  110. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    blake November 6th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    “The best argument against McCann was pointed out I think on another site. In 2 or 3 years he has to be moved to first base, and there his production is only average. He’s a great example of the right player at the wrong price.”

    “His production woukd actually be good at DH though…..”

    But who spends that kind of money on a DH? Well I guess the Sox do but he’s like the greatest player of all time :).

  111. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Ruiz is interesting too. I wouldn’t mind him. I just think for McCann there are too many 80% options out there that will not cost a pick or too long of a deal. I don’t like Salty but I’d take him this year over McCann. Ruiz would be a good compromise of defense and offense too.

    Tanaka is an arm too perfect of a fit not to Yankee the situation and blow everyone out of the water off the books.

    And whether it’s Cano or someone else, make sure you have a middle of the order bat in the lineup on Opening Day.

  112. blake November 6th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    “But who spends that kind of money on a DH? Well I guess the Sox do but he’s like the greatest player of all time .”

    Well DH/C but that’s worst case scenario …..most FA contracts are bad on the back end. The yanks has to decide if what he can provide on the front end is worth it

  113. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Blake,
    Another reason I’m not so keen on big contracts this offseason.

    The Yankees aren’t in a position where the front end is that vital right now. They need a core first. Tanaka is a long-term piece so it makes sense, and so does getting maybe one other guy to bridge a gap (I would be OK with Choo too, but I think he gets overpaid elsewhere).

    Yankees should sign big names when they’re a piece or two away, not when they’re hoping they can get a young core.

  114. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    When Sanchez gets here he will not just step in, they will ease him under a mentor whose job he can take away like Posada with Girardi.
    Even if they go 1 year at a time with Ruiz, he would be an upgrade.

  115. blake November 6th, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    The Yankees aren’t in a position where the front end is that vital right now. They need a core first. Tanaka is a long-term piece so it makes sense, and so does getting maybe one other guy to bridge a gap (I would be OK with Choo too, but I think he gets overpaid elsewhere) ”

    Can’t argue…..I’m only for signing McCann if they are also gonna sign Choo or Beltran, Tanaka, Kuroda, Peralta and even more guys and forgetting the budget…..signing McCann alone does nothing but make then slightly less mediocre

  116. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    I don’t think McCann is the right way to go for the Yanks given other options but, lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, McCann, Cano and Tanaka means not only that 189 is out, but that this franchise is not thinking cheap, transition or really anything else other than competing next year. Are they kidding themselves? That remains to be seen. They better get some serious pitching though.

  117. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Big, yeah, I think we will know all we have to know about this team in 2014 by December 1st.

    I sincerely hope it’s awfully quiet, they reset the tax, they get Tanaka and in 2015/2016 they come roaring with a core.

  118. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    They have got to get a middle of the order bat to protect Cano.
    Not many out there. Having Tex, Beltran, Soriano and a catcher who can hit a little should be a goal.
    A 3b would be nice and a DH (Beltran/Ichiro).

    Can see Beltran, Tanaka and a catcher.

  119. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Glad to see you here Vince.
    How’s the Mouse?

  120. bigdan22 November 6th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    I think I’ve come around. I forgot who said this on here and I apologize but I agree. I think that whole Red Sox lovefest changed everything. The Yanks are going all in next year. Old school way. They wouldn’t be dropping all these names if they weren’t. Remember last year? All you heard last off season was that the Yanks weren’t interested in anybody. Now they’re interested in everybody. Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen.

  121. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Mick,

    If Cano comes back and A-Rod doesn’t in 2014, you’re probably looking at:

    Gardner
    Jeter
    Cano
    Sori
    Tex
    Wells/Ichiro
    Ruiz
    Something Cheap
    Nunez

  122. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    haha Mouse is fine. Getting more and more expensive.

    You know what’s strange about living down here? We have a city, Universal, Disney, Wet N Wild and Sea World all under an hour, but not one good zoo until you hit Tampa or Melbourne.

  123. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    You know what’s strange about living down here? We have a city, Universal, Disney, Wet N Wild and Sea World all under an hour, but not one good zoo until you hit Tampa or Melbourne.
    =================
    Sounds like a mickey mouse kind of town to me Vince.

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    Balfour is the kind of guy that they have no chance to sign and stay below $189M without having majors holes elsewhere. The BP is the area they would have to go really cheap because it is an organizational strength… I would take signing a guy like Balfour as a sign that the budget is out of the window… Obviously “having interest” isn’t the same thing but it’s at least leaning towards good news in my mind.

  125. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    the funniest thing i have seen was when we once “accidentally’” opened a gate at a petting zoo in Fla and all of the goats galloped out into the parking lot.

    they seemed exhilirated with their new found freedom, you could almost see it on their faces.

  126. Vince November 6th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Mick,

    I would pay to see that.

  127. mick November 6th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Vince,
    When you have children, or before, also you should bring their grandparents, you should accidentally free the animals.
    They will get herded up just fine. Must happen all the time.
    I think we were in Ft Lauderdale, long time ago.

  128. pkyankfan69 November 6th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    If 189 is out the window, I think something like this is possible:

    CF – Gardner
    SS – Jeter
    2B – Cano (8 years – $200M)
    1B – Tex
    LF – Soriano
    RF – Grandy (3 years – $45M)
    DH – Morneau (1 year – $8M)
    3B – Peralta (2 years – $20M)
    C – Salty (3 years – $30M)

    CC – Kuroda (1 year – $15M) – Tanaka (6 years – $60M) – Nova – Pineda/Phelps
    Drob – Balfour (2 years – $15M) – Kelley – Betances – Cabral – Phelps/Warren/Nuno

    If they followed this plan the budget would be similar to last year and they would only add 2 long term deals. In this scenario we would also keep the draft pick.

    Probably asking too much but I think this team could do some major damage.

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