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Things we learned from the GM Meetings (aka: things we already knew)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 15, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The GM/Owners Meetings ended yesterday with a predictable lack of player movement. Marlon Byrd and the Phillies set a pretty high price for offensive power, but otherwise, there weren’t many significant moves. The market is still being defined, and teams are still getting a feel for what’s out there and what it’s going to cost. As for the Yankees specifically, we didn’t learn much about them that we didn’t already suspect. The information coming out of Orlando only solidified what we thought we knew. Here are five things we can be, perhaps, more sure of today than a week ago.

Brian Cashman1. Robinson Cano is expected to sign with the highest bidder
Of course Cano is going to sign with the highest bidder! That’s not news. The only relevant thing about this bit of information — the fact the Yankees said repeatedly that Cano will follow the money — is that the Yankees are fully aware that’s the case. They realize they can’t lure Cano back to the Bronx with promises of tradition and championships and a spot in Monument Park. Those things are nice, but the Yankees are going to have to pay if they want to re-sign Cano. They might be talking about cutting payroll, but they still seem to realize that money matters.

2. Two starting pitchers, not one
The term “400 innings” was thrown around a few times. It was Brian Cashman’s way of quantifying what the Yankees need for their rotation. And 400 innings means adding at least two starting pitchers, not one. It’s become pretty clear that the Yankees want to re-sign Hiroki Kuroda and plan to join the bidding for Masahiro Tanaka (assuming he becomes available). But if one of those falls through, it sounds like the Yankees fully expect to target a different rotation addition. They don’t want to count on more than one of David Phelps, Adam Warren and Michael Pineda.

3. Dave Robertson is hardly a slam dunk for the closer role
This one is kind of like the Cano situation: It makes obvious sense, but there’s some clarity that comes from the Yankees discussing it and leaving no doubt. Robertson is the obvious internal candidate for the ninth inning. There’s really no one else who makes even remote sense for an audition. But the Yankees are not banking on Robertson taking over, and even if he does, they recognize it will mean losing their setup man. If Robertson replaces Rivera, the Yankees will need someone to replace Robertson.

4. The wide net is back in action
Each winter, the Yankees seem to be connected — at one point or another — to nearly every big name free agent on the market. They’re also connected to any trade possibility makes remote sense. Cashman likes to say he casts a wide net, looking into each and every possibility that’s out there, and that certainly seems to be the case this winter. Cashman acknowledged meeting with several key agents, and the Yankees have already been tied to all sort of potential acquisitions. This offseason could go any number of directions, and the Yankees seem to be laying the groundwork for all of them.

5. Francisco Cervelli is coming back
Cashman specifically said that Cervelli will be tendered a contract for 2014. We have to assume there’s practically zero trade value there, which means we also have to assume Cervelli will be back with the Yankees in some capacity. For now, he’s the presumptive starting catcher. If the Yankees add someone, he’ll compete with Austin Romine for the backup job. By saying Cervelli is getting a contract offer, the Yankees have left wide open the possibility of non-tendering Chris Stewart.

Associated Press photo

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99 Responses to “Things we learned from the GM Meetings (aka: things we already knew)”

  1. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    The Red Sox have reached a minor league deals with 28 YO shortstop Mike McCoy.

    He’s played in over a season’s worth of MLB games, though spread over four years of brief appearances.

    His career triple-slash is .190/.273/.256 over 380 plate appearances.

    …..can you imagine the outrage if we signed someone like this !

    (props to MLBTR)

  2. mick November 15th, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    who are these guys?

    #Yankees sign minor league free agent 3B Zelous Wheeler and OF Antoan Richardson, re-sign RHP Jim MIller.

  3. mick November 15th, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    ” Cashman likes to say he casts a wide net, looking into each and every possibility that’s out there,”
    ===============
    I do the same when I shop at garage sales.

  4. mick November 15th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    2. Two starting pitchers, not one
    ======================
    I smell Bronson Arroyo.

  5. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Miller pitched 1 or 2 times for us last year.
    How ?
    IDK.

  6. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    WOW !!! so it’s possible that the NYY can have a starting catcher that has zero trade value….

  7. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    WOW !!! so it’s possible that the NYY can have a starting catcher that has zero trade value….
    ————-

    But we have a stockpile of greats ‘on-the-way !

  8. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    mick November 15th, 2013 at 7:47 pm
    2. Two starting pitchers, not one
    ======================
    I smell Bronson Arroyo.

    ————————————-
    followed a lot of his games last year….he’s a hit the bat SPer that does get 200 innings, but he was 35-34 in the last 3 years with a VG Reds team

  9. blake November 15th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    “By saying Cervelli is getting a contract offer, the Yankees have left wide open the possibility of non-tendering Chris Stewart”

    Girardi may flip

  10. Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Yanks are spinning a yarn about Cano and the dough. He’ll stay in the Bronx if they make a competitive offer and not start playing the lo-ball game with him. This is Bernie Williams redux

  11. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    WOW !!! so it’s possible that the NYY can have a starting catcher that has zero trade value….
    ————-

    But we have a stockpile of greats ‘on-the-way !
    ————————————————————————–
    nobody’s great until they make it..no guarantees

  12. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    Bronson Arroyo
    RHP
    FlyBall pitcher
    37YO
    Doesn’t walk too many
    Last 3 years….500 pitcher
    Alot of these flyballs end up in the seats
    37…and going back to AL….not the best recipe in the cookbook

  13. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    nobody’s great until they make it..no guarantees
    ————————–

    It was supposed to be a bit ‘sarcastic’…..but the tone doesn’t always translate well on blogs.

    I agree with you 100%

  14. blake November 15th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Bronson Arroyo…..lol

  15. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Pat M…nice job the other night with Mich St….not so nice for me with Syr too

  16. MTU November 15th, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Blake-

    Don’t make fun.

    Dude plays a mean geetar.

    :)

  17. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    UpState November 15th, 2013 at 7:59 pm
    Bronson Arroyo
    RHP
    FlyBall pitcher
    37YO
    Doesn’t walk too many
    Last 3 years….500 pitcher
    Alot of these flyballs end up in the seats
    37…and going back to AL….not the best recipe in the cookbook

    ————————————–
    innings are nice but I wouldn’t touch him

  18. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    CANO:
    Make is smart and fair…not stupid (too low or too high or too long)
    J-Z must have something planned with Cano…doesn’t seem right that he’s jump from NYC.

  19. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    nobody’s great until they make it..no guarantees
    ————————–

    It was supposed to be a bit ‘sarcastic’…..but the tone doesn’t always translate well on blogs.

    I agree with you 100%

    —————————————————–
    your right couldn’t tell

  20. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Want to see a great prospect? Check out Otto Velez. The guy OPS’d over 1.000 for a couple years in AAA at age 22/23. OBP of around .450 with power. One year walked like 130 times in 500 ABs with power. All before the Baseball Abstract I think.

    Those were the days. . . .

  21. Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    joeman, That was a great night as Kansas and UCLA did me a solid. I loaded up on the KC Chiefs ( + 8 1/2 ) & I have UCLA tonight laying 3 to Washington.. You see anything good coming up ????

  22. austinmac November 15th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Velez was one of the great hopes. So sad.

  23. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    KC is like the luckiest team of all time. Haven’t played a winning team. I’m not sure they’ve played more than a couple starting QBs. 15 forced fumbles, recovered 11. (For the jets it’s 14/2). One tough game and a buy week to prepare. I see first round exit.

  24. MTU November 15th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    How about what happened to Brien Taylor ?

    :(

  25. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 8:06 pm
    joeman, That was a great night as Kansas and UCLA did me a solid. I loaded up on the KC Chiefs ( + 8 1/2 ) & I have UCLA tonight laying 3 to Washington.. You see anything good coming up ????

    ——————————————–
    I never ever have luck on Friday night….tomorrow will be a fun day so many games my head will spin..Think I’ll go back to the money line

  26. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    bye week that is.

  27. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Velez I think actually had some nice years with blue jays.

  28. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:05 pm
    Want to see a great prospect? Check out Otto Velez. The guy OPS’d over 1.000 for a couple years in AAA at age 22/23. OBP of around .450 with power. One year walked like 130 times in 500 ABs with power. All before the Baseball Abstract I think.

    Those were the days. . . .
    ==================================

    Then traded before the 77 & 78 Championships….replaced by the local Westchester hero-

    Dell Alston

  29. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:10 pm
    KC is like the luckiest team of all time. Haven’t played a winning team. I’m not sure they’ve played more than a couple starting QBs. 15 forced fumbles, recovered 11. (For the jets it’s 14/2). One tough game and a buy week to prepare. I see first round exit.

    —————————————–
    Defense is good and a starting QB that doesn’t make mistakes with a great RB and so-so WR’s…still up in the air about them

  30. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    The guy spent like three years in AAA and crushed. Who was blocking a 1.000 OPS on the big club?

  31. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    Pat M.

    you do the money line ?

  32. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    looking at KC schedule I can see them going 5-2-4-3 here on out

  33. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Bigdan, I remember one double header when I think, Otto Velez, had five in total smashers for the double bill vs Cleveland.

  34. Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    joeman… money line is where it’s at especially when playing a dog. Otto went to Seattle in the expansion draft, no ????

  35. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    jmills…if Godzilla could skate he would be a Boston Bruin

  36. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Anybody see that hilarious Oliver Reed and Paula Yates Advert ?

  37. mick November 15th, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    anyone check this out?

    http://vimeo.com/77336211

  38. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    Ok Joe, you can have Godzilla, I’m going for something better :D

  39. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    good game in Ottawa tonite…2-1 B’s after 1 period

  40. joeman November 15th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    jmills November 15th, 2013 at 8:22 pm
    Ok Joe, you can have Godzilla, I’m going for something better :D

    like who

    Tie Domi

  41. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I followed the Yanks back then but I was still a little young for prospect analysis. Imagine if you had a guy like Velez today? Talk about the hype. I mean did Trout put up numbers like that in AAA?

    Alec Baldwin getting dumped by MSNBC for gay slurs. That guy just can’t get out of the way of himself.

  42. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    1975

    Roy White
    Bobby Bonds
    Elliott Maddox
    Lou Piniella
    Walt Williams
    Terry Whitfield
    Rick Bladt

    1976

    Roy White
    Mickey Rivers
    Oscar Gamble
    Elliott Maddox
    Lou Piniella
    Kerry Dineen
    Terry Whitfield

    Velez was 24 & 25 YO.

  43. MTU November 15th, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    6. The Yankees are getting Tanaka

    :)

  44. MTU November 15th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    Dan-

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    ;)

  45. comet November 15th, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    Pat Velez went to the Blue Jays in the expansion draft I think.

  46. bigdan22 November 15th, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    I miss the “Big O.” Didn’t he call himself “Mr. Ratio” for home runs per AB or “Dial 8″ for long distance. I think Bill White mentioned that.

  47. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Rick Lancellotti

    another guy that had some ‘powerful’ numbers in the minors….

    …only had a couple cups of coffee in the Majors (65 ab’s)

    Talk about a AAAA guy !

  48. MTU November 15th, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    I’d be willing to bet that the Yankees don’t have even 1 untouchable prospect in their entire system.

  49. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    They’re all untouchable….huggers protecting them from the clutches of the traders !

    ….”Can’t Touch This”…

  50. Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Comet….Thanks, Otto was a good guy and with Chambliss anchoring first he was dangled a few times but Mr. Paul hung on to him. Well somebody went to Seatlle but I can’t seem to remember this stuff anymore.

  51. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    Pat M.

    1975-1976….don’t think there was a Seattle franchise (Pilots already gone…no Mariners yet)

  52. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Seattle and me B Jays came in, ’77 – god bless, Willie Horten.

  53. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Damn it! Les ‘Spos won in ’94 and Griffey hit, 69.

  54. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Paul Molitor was having another over the Topps season when things were suspended in ’94.

  55. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    In my childhood, Otto Velez was,….a monster! :D ( 5 HRs in one double header vs Cleveland )

  56. blake November 15th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    My heels better get it together…..losing to holy cross would be about like giving up a homer to Chris Stewart

  57. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    How’s DUKE doing ?
    Playing tonite ?

  58. Pat M. November 15th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    blake….Coach Williams has some issues to deal with.

  59. blake November 15th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Pat M. says:
    November 15, 2013 at 9:59 pm
    blake….Coach Williams has some issues to deal with.

    Yea…..they are young in some spots and haven’t really gelled yet. I don’t think they are talented enough this year to win it all because there are so may good teams but they could get it together and make a run by march …..this is deepest college game has been in awhile I think

  60. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    Youtube jean claude damn mobile trucks commercial

  61. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    Enya, where the time goes.

  62. jmills November 15th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    ” My name is, Luka, I live upstairs “

  63. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    DUKE Hoop:

    Rodney Hood scored a career-high 28 points, Jabari Parker added 21 and No. 4 Duke routed Florida Atlantic 97-64 on Friday night.

    Parker had his third straight 20-point performance and also got 10 rebounds.

    He became the first freshman in coach Mike Krzyzewski’s 34 seasons at Duke to begin his career with three consecutive 20-point games.

  64. ac1 November 15th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    I would let phelps and nuno start, but if they need more how about dan haren…

  65. UpState November 15th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    HAREN:
    Not that old. (33)
    10-14 with a 4.67 ERA….169 innings (good) ….179 hits (meh)
    Not thrilled about an ‘average’ pitcher leaving the NL headed for the AL.
    Last year made $13.0

    Free Agent ?

  66. Tar November 16th, 2013 at 12:04 am

    Duke looks tough. And they just signed two of the highest rated recruits. This USA basketball has been a real been a windfall for coach K.

    The Heels are real young and haven’t had their leading scorer and main outside threat from last year play yet, so they will get better. They just better do it quick because Mich. State, Kentucky and Texas are coming up and that’s just the primer before the regular season ACC.

  67. pat November 16th, 2013 at 12:09 am

    A person close to Cano says the second baseman has been preparing all along for the possibility that it will take months for the process to play out and get him the mega-deal he wants.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z2kmYbIIRa

  68. jacksquat November 16th, 2013 at 3:15 am

    Screw that, make a good offer with a deadline. There is nothing to spend that money on in January if Cano ends up going to another team.

  69. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 6:20 am

    I don’t know exactly what occured with the Expos in ’94, but it is rather ironic dontcha’ think that the strike arguably put a stake in their heart. And to think they had Pedro, and Tim Raines and Larry Walker after that. I’m trying to think of that over the hill left-hander they traded for from Seattle. Trisha goes on, and she might very well be correct, that the demise of Montreal was all a setup. For me, Expos pain all comes down to the unusual relief of Steve Rogers vs Rick Monday,…at least they knocked out, Philly.

  70. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 6:32 am

    Mark Langston, I looked it up, the Expos never should have traded for, Mark Langston.

  71. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 6:51 am

    http://r7—sn-p5qlsu7s.c......&mv=m

    Mick will like the ex-Beattle song that goes with the above Bill Lee Expos tribute. You Yankee fans should be so thankful that Don Zimmer threw Bill, Fergie Jenkins and I think, Reggie Cleveland out of Beantown. Bill Lee was a proven 17 game winner, but Don and his steel plate just couldn’t co-exist with the Spaceman. If I were Bill Lee, I never would have wrecked my shoulder over, Craig Nettles.

  72. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:14 am

    http://r5—sn-tt17rn7d.c......&mv=u

    Anybody ever try the above? :D

  73. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 7:22 am

    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are

  74. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Joe, tell that to pitcher perfect, Doc Ellis :D

  75. Ys Guy November 16th, 2013 at 7:28 am

    the popular theory is that jeff loria destroyed the expos in order to move them. In fact, under the previous ownership (the brocu group with 15 partners) ordered a fire-sale after the 1994 season.

    GM Kevin Malone quit saying, “”I’m in the building business, not in the dismantling business.”

    Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom, Wil cordero, Jon Wetteland, Rondell White and Pedro Martinez were let go or traded and not replaced. Eventually the Brochu group just stopped paying the Expo’s bills.

    Attendance dropped by 50% by 1999.

    THEN Jeff Loria bought the team.

    Yet the ‘Loria killed the Expos’ theory still gets mentioned especially among the whacko conspiracy types.

  76. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 7:37 am

    Le Grand Orange

  77. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzfwtX2kgOA

  78. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:44 am

    Yes, Rusty is probably the #1 Expo in the hearts of old farts. I have Chris Speirs, Ken Singleton, Willie Davis and John Boccabella baseball cards. ( I never got a, Ron Hunt, but do have a Steve Renko )

  79. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 7:50 am

    jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:44 am
    Yes, Rusty is probably the #1 Expo in the hearts of old farts. I have Chris Speirs, Ken Singleton, Willie Davis and John Boccabella baseball cards. ( I never got a, Ron Hunt, but do have a Steve Renko )

    ——————————————
    I might have some EXPO cards I’ll look

  80. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:54 am

    Thanks, Joe, I’m pretty sure I could have a good time at a Steely Dan concert. Progressive but never obnoxious.

  81. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 7:59 am

    http://r20—sn-tt17rn7k.c.....&mv=m

    Ollie in the morning, you can’t go wrong.

  82. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    found a Otis Nixon 1988

  83. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 8:01 am

    found a Andre Dawson

  84. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 8:02 am

    found a Andres Galarraga

  85. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 8:03 am

    found the Kid card but he’s in a Mets uni

  86. joeman November 16th, 2013 at 8:04 am

    got a 1986 Barry Bonds

  87. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Got a rookie Ricki Henderson, and thank the lord above, Dave Stieb ( sans hair over the lip ).

  88. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 8:10 am

    I have rookie Andre Dawson, Ellis Valentine and of course, that Rush fan, Warren Cromarties ( Geddy wore Expos jerseys on the ’82 Signals tour )

  89. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 16th, 2013 at 8:11 am

    “Yet the ‘Loria killed the Expos’ theory still gets mentioned especially among the whacko conspiracy types.”

    Don’t want to expose you as having you head up your butt, Ys Guy, but that’s what happens when people who don’t do their research accuse those who do of being “whacko conspiracy types”. Try doing your homework before you open your pie hole next time.

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....snationals

  90. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 16th, 2013 at 8:18 am

    jmills, morning my friend. And yes, you had it right. It was Loria and his butt buddies, Selig and Henry, who killed off the Expos. What Selig orchestrated behind the scenes is just one reason that nasty little thief will burn in hell.

  91. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Hi Trish, losing the Expos sucked :(

  92. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 16th, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Here’s another article on the corrupt machinations of Loria, this time with respect to the Marlins. The little schmuck (excuse my Yiddish) belongs in jail.

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/.....ehind-bars

  93. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 8:46 am

    http://r8—sn-tt17rn7r.c......&mv=u

    Song for, Loria.

  94. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 16th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    “whacko conspiracy types”

    And the reason this kind of thing continues to happen is that the Y’s Guy of the world (no pun intended) either don’t know enough or don’t care enough to educate themselves beyond their noses. Or aren’t offended because it’s not happening in their own back yard.

    One of the most screaming silences on this forum has been the total lack of discussion/interest in MLB’s sham fenway steroids investigation. Yet people like Giuseppe Franco like to call any reference to Selig’s continued protection of John Henry’s interests “bunk”.

    More about Loria – and Bud.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/m.....blame.html

    It’s a shame that Montreal RICO suit ended up in arbitration – and in NY no less. If it went to court, maybe Loria and Bud would be in jail, where they belong. White collar crime is still crime.

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 16th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Good song, jmills.

    Didn’t mean to stop your conversation with joeman. But when I saw the reference to Loria and the Expos, it immediately started to make my blood boil.

    Sorry joeman.

    You guys have a good day. I think I’ll go and work off some of this energy!

    :)

  96. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Peter Pocklington never should have been allowed to sell, Wayne Gretzky, and John Deloreon should have had his nose smelling out production gliches, not over some mirror. There was more than a bad winter that killed that car.

  97. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Trish et all, have a tres fantastique day.

  98. jmills November 16th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    I’m watching an interview with, Lady Diana. I do feel for, just a young spirit who got arranged with Mr Ears. I haven’t seen the Naomi Watts portrayal, beyond the fact I know Naomi is getting blasted. I’ll form my own opinion. It is obvious, Watts is smart.

  99. Ys Guy November 16th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    the poorly bleacher report article trisha cited clearly says that the attendance had dropped by 10,000 per game BEFORE loria bought the expos, as i stated in my earlier post.

    the article is very short on how they got from bronfman to loria, which is where the sell off happened and the attendace collapse. once again, as i said, it happened BEFORE loria bought in.

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