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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes could take advantage of weak pitching market

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 29, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil Hughes

I like Phil Hughes. He was always good to me in Scranton, and always good to me in New York. He remained easy to get along with whether he was an elite prospect, an all-star starter, a frustrated guy on the disabled list, or a struggling starter being booed off the mound at Yankee Stadium. I like the guy, he just didn’t pitch well.

It was there at times — the big fastball, the put-away curve; two seasons with at least 16 wins — but Hughes never found the consistency that would let him live up to massive expectations. Not even close, actually. He seemed to be heading that way in 2010, then took a massive step back in 2011, put some things back in order in 2012, and then had a 2013 walk year to forget. Brutal. Yankees couldn’t even make a qualifying offer to get a draft pick out of him.

But Hughes also has pretty decent timing, because the starting pitching market is awfully bad.

Josh Johnson, who’s two years older than Hughes and coming off an even worse season, just got $8 million from the Padres. Dan Haren, who’s been trending the wrong way for two years now, got $10 million from the Dodgers. Jason Vargas, who’s steady but certainly not overwhelming, got four years from the Royals.

In that market, George King reports that Hughes seems to be in line for a two-year deal worth roughly $15 million. The Twins have emerged as an early candidate after already signing a four-year deal with Ricky Nolasco (whose 4.37 career ERA isn’t that much better than Hughes’ 4.54).  I like Hughes, and I hope he does well, but there’s absolutely no reason to believe he’ll have another chance in the Bronx.

Associated Press photo

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183 Responses to “Hughes could take advantage of weak pitching market”

  1. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    I wish him well.

    Still time for him to blossom.

    An excellent buy low candidate.

    Hope he gets on w a Team close to home.

  2. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    I’d love to see what Dave Duncan could do w Hughes.

    ;)

  3. exiledintampa November 29th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Didn’t Duncan just sign with the Diamondbacks? Would that be a team for Phil? Haven’t heard their name mentioned for him.

  4. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Exiled-

    He signed on as special consultant.

    I’m not sure but, now that Harkey is there and w Duncan, it might be.

    If anyone could fix him it would be Duncan. And few know him better than Harkey.

    That’s Duncan’s specialty.

  5. exiledintampa November 29th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    MTU almost makes too much sense.

  6. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Exiled-

    Which is probably why it won’t happen.

    ;)

  7. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Exiled-

    I’d like to see Cashman pry away one of the D’backs young IF guys.

    They have a surplus w Gregorius, Owings, and Davidson.

    They need a young cost controlled C, and ML-ready relievers.

    Both of which we have in abundance.

    And Towers knows our inventory, and owes Cashman a favor.

    Let’s make a deal.

    :)

  8. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Again, probably makes too much sense.

    ;)

  9. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    If we weren’t going to protect Whitley, who is ML-ready, why didn’t we just send him to the Snakes ?

    Same w Burawa or Kahnle ?

    Maybe they could have stashed one of them.

  10. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    This is the D’Backs :

    ROTATION

    T. Cahill
    B. McCarthy
    W. Miley
    P. Corbin- Staff Ace
    R. Delgado
    D. Hudson- coming back from 2nd TJS

    You tell me. Could they use Phil Hughes ?

  11. MoRings42 November 29th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Hughes was really cool in the beginning of his career. He was a lot like Pat Neshek. He was very talkative and fan friendly on the net.. He had his own site, interacted w/ people, encouraged people to send him stuff to sign as he was a collector also.. Then one day he just hit the off switch and that was that. The way he did it was how I lost respect for him.. It was right after he posted on his blog for people to send him things to sign. I’m sure a few people sent him some big items too.

    Anyway, with that stuff aside.. I think he’d do great in a NL park facing weaker lineups on a regular basis. Some people are just not made for the AL. He and Ian Kennedy are among them.

  12. Hankflorida November 29th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Phil Hughes never fit it to the Yankee mold of pitchers and that is why I had my doubts when they traded for Pineda. The Yankees always looked for sinker ball type of pitchers, and that is why they always had good defensive players at SS and 2nd base. Cano fits into that category, but how great Jeter is as an all around player, he could not be compared to the defensive skills of Rizzuto or even Crosetti. That is why I cannot understand his reluctance to move to the outfield or 3rd as many other great players did when they got older.

  13. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Hughes can get a multi-year deal from someone.

    The Twins are rumored to be interested as are others.

    I hope he hooks up w a west coast team.

  14. ac1 November 29th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Twins ballpark is HUGE, so if he signs there, at least he will give up less home runs.
    Won’t help the 15 non home run hits he gives up per game though…

  15. yankinvegas November 29th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    I wish Hughes well. He is one of the most disappointing players that we have had in my 50 years of watching.
    He obviously was overhyped, but he still had good stuff and looked the part of a stud starter. What he doesn’t have is moxie and guts on the mound. Part of the frustration stems from the fact that the Yankees had nobody to coach his potential out of him.
    Whereas I feel the team screwed up Joba, they should have left him as a starter, Hughes on the other hand was groomed as a starter, except when he was needed in 2009 in the bullpen.
    The two of them leave as great exhibits of what might have been.

  16. blake November 29th, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    I think Hughes could have a sub 4 era next year if he signed with the right team with the right ball park…..YS was really the worst park imaginable for him

  17. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    MTU -

    KC is another obvious spot, what with Dave Eiland being their pitching coach. Either way, Hughes will find work and let’s hope he finds sustained success.

  18. blake November 29th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    @RiverAveBlues: Cotillo: Chris Stewart drawing trade interest http://t.co/7TKuEPdukz

    Lol what ?

  19. Jerkface November 29th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    SELL SELL SELL

  20. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    I hope Hughes can do better than the Twinkies.

  21. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Steve-

    He’s young.

    He still has time.

  22. Giuseppe Franco November 29th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    I think those who are clamoring for Ellsbury are going to rather disappointed.

    Seems like Beltran or Choo are the more likely targets that fit better within their budget and I tend to doubt Hal is going to sign off on acquiring two starting outfielders.

  23. exiledintampa November 29th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    On this date in 1976, The Yankees signed free agent Reggie Jackson to a five-year, $3.5MM contract. During Mr. October’s tenure, the Bronx Bombers will win four divisions, three pennants and two World Series.

    From MLBTR

    What an over pay.

  24. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    GF-

    Choo will be very expensive.

    Cheaper targets are Beltran and Granderson.

  25. ron November 29th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Jeter might move when he really tails off with his production,like ichiro.When he knows his stats are just about done,and is looking to just hang on.
    About cano.
    I might rather have a peralta,and an ellsbury for 31 million that cano at 25,and we’d get another draft pick.
    It is not about what cano can do now,it’s about what he won’t be able to do at 35 years old,so it might be a choice of a 35 year old cano,or an ellsbury,and peralta,frozen in time,if you will.
    For example,right now,if we were not paying arod,we would be light years better with ellsbury,peralta,and a draft pick.The cardinals,and pujols is a perfect example,and that happened immediately.
    That is what this is all about.Paying cano,25 million+,past his prime years.
    It might not hurt now,but the time will come.There is a perfect contract that is fair for both,for every player.

  26. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Granderson and Beltran seem like workable deals, altho there will be that Boras tax.
    Choo and Ellsbury might be too exotic for Sir Hal’s tastes.
    It still leaves you with 4 starting OF’s so wouldn’t be surprised if it’s only one unless Beltran agrees to be the DH.

  27. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    I know Alfred thinks Cano will be fine in the long run, and he might very well be right, as Alfred is an astute, intense individual, who knows more about hockey strategy than me, I just think that players should sign, willingly and lovingly ( given the renumeration ), 4-5 year contracts, while reflecting, ” hey, if I’m good to go after that, let’s negotiate, if not, I’m financially more than sound and can get on with that calculus Phd like, Art Garfunkel “. Its a win-win, the fans still love you, and you get to roll in all that lovin’.

  28. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    There is no reason to believe that Cano will not age very gracefully and injury free. He last went on the DL in 2006 due to a strained hammy. That ain’t gonna happen, not the way he plays.

    There is no disputing that he is a great investment. None.

    And, yes, in baseball, teams overpay, and they pay for historic performance. So what? That’s the way it works.

  29. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    as far as age don’t eastwood and redford get the big bucks.

  30. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    asssuming we keep cano and get beltran grandy tanaka kuroda and infante + mccann

    do we need arod to miss the entire season to make budget?

  31. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    mick -

    Not to make my budget…who cares about 189? The fans haven’t gotten value for the lousy product that the FO has put on the field the last few years, due solely to their mismanagement. Can’t make budget? Too bad. Fix it.

  32. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    if those fellas make 100m +tex, jete and cc ~ 65
    we might have to do some dumping

  33. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    wanz
    do you think hal will abandon and go over by a dollar.
    if that close, i don’t…

  34. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    if hal sees a lineup of

    jeter
    beltran
    cano
    mccann
    tex
    soriano
    granderson
    infante
    gardner

    staring him in the face
    at 189
    do you see him adding and subtracting to get choo or ells
    not happnin’

  35. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    Cano= 25
    Beltran=12
    Grandy=15
    Tanaka=12
    Kuroda=15
    Infante=10
    McCann=17

    Total=106

    A-Rod entire season= 26

    I’ve heard the rest of the guys plus arbs = around 106

    Target for 189 was actually 177 due to benefits, etc.

    So. Short answer is even w/o A-Rod those players put you over.

  36. ron November 29th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    The way it works is,their are good contracts,and bad ones.
    I heard the same thing with arod,who was never hurt,til he was hurt,now he doesn’t play at all,for 27.5 million a year.
    Every player declines at a certain age.
    Arod,pujols,santanna,zito,even fielder was traded because all he can do is hit for power,and when a 1b is hitting 28,or so hr,and can’t do anything else,they are almost worthless.
    Who knows when cano will decline,but there has to be some protection.
    The Yankees already got 8 great years from cano,and I hope we get more,but all i’m saying is,i would not overpay.
    Does that sound unreasonable?
    No it doesn’t,and if he was younger,i would overpay.

    I’d do a 6/150,or 7/154.That is it,or i’d let him go.

  37. mick November 29th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    cc, nova, kuroda, tanaka, phelps

    drob kelly, claiborne cabral warren whoamimissing ?

    might not room for nathan

    but this team could win a title

  38. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    mtu

    106-26=80 + 106= 186 – 177= 9 (Ichiro 6.5 + 2.5 )

  39. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    if hal is close than i see him doing some creative financing .
    would hate to see them lose infante b/c of arod.

  40. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Ok, guess time, who said this, Yankee fans?

    ” I worried that my teammates would be let down. I worried that the management group who had brought me in would decide that they had made a mistake. That was the kind of pressure that I had never experienced previously. I had to give myself one more chance to play again, so I made the decision to sit out the year. I didn’t accept any salary either. I was paid to play “X”, and I believed that if I wasn’t holding up my end of the bargain, I shouldn’t be cashing checks I hadn’t earned. “

  41. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    mick -

    The Yankees are at 160M right now. Subtract Arod if you want, but they can’t until they can.

    ron -

    We’ll agree to disagree. I like Cano’s chances of lasting a long, long time at a very high level. And there is no “overpay”, not in this FA market, not when you’re talking about the best player at his position.

  42. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    if they don’t get tanaka they will either find another or go within
    this is what hal is thinking

  43. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    infante might not want to play here unless he is guaranteed a starting job
    if he is out then hal would go cheap with reynolds or napoleon dynamite

  44. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    If Phil wants to be a starter in the major leagues he needs to reinvent himself. He needs to stop pitching up in the zone like he’s Roger Clemens or something. He needs to develop a two-seamer and go from there. A third pitch would help too. Otherwise he belongs in the bullpen where he can air it out.

    I’m not sure about his make-up either. If he really had confidence in himself he’d be looking for a one year deal now like Haren and Johnson instead of trying to “cash out” with the most guaranteed money possible. He sure is lucky he’s not in the NFL where they’d be cutting his ass without pay as soon as he shows doesn’t belong.

  45. Ted Nelson November 29th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    I would argue that you’re mixing up supply and demand a little.

    I think that the supply of Ps on the free agent market is actually fine. That this is about as good a SP market overall as you’ll find most years.

    That the prices are due to demand from teams with a lot of cash and not a lot of existing P talent on their rosters.

  46. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    in the NFL where they’d be cutting his ass without pay as soon as he shows doesn’t belong.
    =======
    how do they get away with that?

  47. mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    there is no guarantee they get tanaka and infante so if they save 20m there
    hal will smell his goat and make it easily.

  48. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    rtsp://r1—sn-p5qlsu7l.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQkDwyEBAnbMTBMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Answer for the guy who wouldn’t take payment unless he could make economical exchange ( and he wasn’t even financially independant ! )

  49. exiledintampa November 29th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    how do they get away with that?

    A Salary Cap. 53 players at approx 121 Mill. It’s why even loser teams like my Buffalo Bills are worth more than most baseball teams.

  50. tomingeorgia November 29th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    jmills,
    Couldn’t open it. Who was it?

  51. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Here is a recent article by Sherman which details the budget situation :

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/y.....d-red-sox/

    Basically, if you study his #’s and try to add in Betran, Grandy, Kuroda, Tanaka, and Infante.

    The Yankees won’t be able to make 189.

  52. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Infante would seem to be good move now for security in case Cano doesn’t sign. But maybe the Yanks don’t believe they can afford both if Cano does. I don’t expect the Cano thing to be over until after the meetings and most likely after the new year. These things take time.

    Doesn’t look like Beltran is signing soon either. He may be a winter meetings deal.

    I would def like to see the Yanks add a pitcher asap. Right now their rotation could be worse than bad. There was a story on the IIATM the other day about just how bad CC was last year. He basically finished in the bottom 5 or 10 of any starting pitching ranking you can think of. I think he gave up more earned runs than any pitcher last year. Worst of all, his pitch values, the effectiveness rating of each of his pitches, have been declining steadily (and in the case of his fastball, dramatically) since 2009. What can one really expect of CC next year? We know he’s not an ace, but does he even deserve to be the Yanks No. 1 starter next April?

  53. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    mick November 29th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
    in the NFL where they’d be cutting his ass without pay as soon as he shows doesn’t belong.
    =======
    how do they get away with that?
    ________

    Contracts aren’t guaranteed in the NFL. Only your bonus is. See Michael Vick.

  54. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Maybe Cano will (or won’t) want to wait for Hanley Ramirez to sign before he does….

    “According to Dionisio Soldevila of ESPN Deportes, Hanley Ramirez is in the process of negotiating a contract extension with the Dodgers.”

    Rotoworld

  55. ron November 29th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Ellsbury-18 million
    McCann-17 million
    kuroda-14 million
    tanaka-12 million.

    That is 61 million,but without cano,and it solves the dh problem because Soriano can dh.Mccann will dh a lot also.
    We have around 66 million to spend,before arod loses a single game to suspention,so we’d still have about 5 million left,and about 17.5 million,if arod loses half the year from, suspention.
    If we can’t sign cano,i’d sign,and,or trade for a 2b,3b.
    I would of signed peralta,then either traded,or signed a 2b,and we’d be under 189.
    The number I heard in commitments is,123 million.115 for the 25 man roster,and about another 7-8 million for the rest of the 40 man.
    The reason I go this route is,signing cano might prevent us from getting a 2nd pitcher,outfielder,dh,closer,etc….
    Yes we lose cano,but peralta,when he was available would of been at 3b,wich upgrades that position,and getting another 1-3 players upgrades us even more,and we don’t have to live through cano’s declining years.
    If we can get cano with a fair deal,i have no problem with it,but….

    McCann
    tex
    infante,or another 2b.
    jeter
    peralta
    ellsbury
    gardner
    ichiro/wells
    Soriano

    cc
    nova
    kuroda
    tanaka
    phelps/pineda

    I think this is a much more balanced team,unless the Yankees just don’t care about the 189,and we still upgrade everywhere we need to,and still keep cano,wich is what I wan’t,but I just don’t know the spending restrictions.
    The bottom line is,to be great,on paper,and not risk it,and money is not an issue,then sign ellsbury,choo,cano,a 3b,2 pitchers,closer,and about 107 million more.
    We’d be sitting at around 230 million.41 million over,and get taxed 20.5 million.

    McCann
    tex
    cano
    jeter
    peralta
    ellsbury
    gardner
    choo
    Soriano

    cc
    kuroda
    nova
    tanaka
    phelps/pineda

  56. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    “Maybe Cano will (or won’t) want to wait for Hanley Ramirez to sign before he does….”

    That’s an interesting comp. Middle infielders with elite hitting skills at about the same age. Cano has been a lot more durable though.

  57. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Tom, hi, I had difficulty, tres difficille difficulty with that link, meself. The answer, from Parry Sound Ontario, #4 (#1 in my heart and mind ), Robert Gordon Orr.

  58. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Ron-

    how they gonna Peralta back from the Cards ?

    ;)

  59. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    bigdan -

    Agreed, and it will be interesting to see who wants to sign theirs first.

  60. ron November 29th, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    I’m saying when he was available.Not now.
    I wanted him from day one,and if the cardinals gave him that contract,i don’t for one second doubt their decision.
    I know peralta is not a fa,but I would of gobbled McCann,peralta up immediately.
    We have time with 4 good outfielders left,and kuroda,tanaka,a closer.

    What I said was we could of signed McCann,peralta,kuroda,tanaka,and one of the big outfielders for a total of around,74 million,or so,with 66 million to spend,so we’d be over by only 8 million,before arod loses a game from suspention,and you have to think he will lose half the year,minimum,wich will cut 12.5 million,so we’d be under the 189 by 3.5 million,and just added McCann,peralta,one of ellsbury/choo/granderson/cruz,tanaka,kuroda,been under 189,and gotten 2 picks for losing cano,maybe granderson.
    Then we could of traded for a 2b,maybe using Robertson while his stock is sky high.

  61. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    MTU, how’s your pal doing?, still tossing circa avec, Sandy? Remember, some are special with one eye, unlike many with more :)

  62. exiledintampa November 29th, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Is Granderson worth less to the Yankees because they lose the sandwich pick?

  63. blake November 29th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    “There is no reason to believe that Cano will not age very gracefully and injury free. He last went on the DL in 2006 due to a strained hammy. That ain’t gonna happen, not the way he plays.”

    Lots of guys are durable until they aren’t…..it becomes much more difficult to predict after players get in their 30s. Arod was as durable as they come until he hit about 34 then it went south in a hurry…..other guys have done the same.

    Doesn’t mean he will get hurt….just means he could

  64. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Mills-

    He is improving daily.

    No complications thus far.

    Thanks for asking.

    :)

  65. ron November 29th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    What I meant was,we can wait on an outfielder,kuroda,tanaka.
    We desperately need help in the infield.
    Right now arod probably loses significant time,jeter is a huge question mark,cano is a fa,tex is coming off a big injury,and we don’t sign any infielders.
    Huge mistake.
    Build your team.Wait for no one.
    Peralta,infante are exact players to give a team a nice balance.Our infield,outfield,and pitching is a mess.
    We need 2 pitchers,at least one outfielder,a 3b,2b,maybe a closer.

  66. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    I’m happy ( if you can believe it ) if my Jays just get to spring with 5 guys named Mo that won’t get hurt :D

  67. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    I like Buehrle and Dickey, if only they can go 200 plus.

  68. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Now that Josh Johnson is gone, Dustin McGowan is just going to have to take over,….you gotta’ believe.

  69. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    blake, I need a catcher, how is Bill Freehan doing? I like the kid Goins at second, he is like a little Mark Belanger out there, wonderful!

  70. blake November 29th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    jmills says:
    November 29, 2013 at 8:08 pm
    blake, I need a catcher, how is Bill Freehan doing? I like the kid Goins at second, he is like a little Mark Belanger out there, wonderful!

    Chris Stewie is for sale :)

  71. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    …I’ll stick with, Arencibia.

  72. blake November 29th, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    I’m so happy to have a real catcher again

  73. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    McCann completes Blake.

  74. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Not a chance.

    Blake is greedy.

    :)

  75. blake November 29th, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    AAA says:
    November 29, 2013 at 8:20 pm
    McCann completes Blake.

    He helps but MTU is right….I want more!

  76. blake November 29th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    How did the Yankees expect to win without a real catcher? Never made any sense…..

  77. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    Blake-

    I reckon you want a LOT more.

    ;)

  78. ron November 29th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Yankees are not at 160 million now.They are around 140 million.
    Cano is not signed yet.
    There is a worse case,best case,but right now,they are around 140,with McCann.
    They can sign beltran,kuroda,tanaka,and be sitting around 184 million without cano,and before arod gets suspended.
    Even if they use arods suspention as a payroll buffer,we can,after mccann,sign,beltran,or one of the big outfielders
    kuroda,tanaka,so,

    McCann
    beltran,ellsbury/cruz/granderson
    kuroda
    tanaka,and be under the 189,but without cano.

  79. austinmac November 29th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    For all the save our money for Hanley people, MLBTR says he and the Dodgers are talking extension.

  80. Tar November 29th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    “How did the Yankees expect to win without a real catcher? Never made any sense…..”

    Hey Blake

    Feel the same way. How about them Wildcats :D

    Big FB game around here tomorrow, you going to watch ? ( ESPN)

  81. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    Ron -

    Maybe this will help. This is more accurate than you will find anywhere else. Trust me, it’s what I do for a living.

    McCann – 17
    Cervelli – 1
    Teix – 22.5
    Jeter – 12
    Arod – 33
    Gardner – 4
    Soriano – 4
    Ichiro – 6.5
    Sabathia – 24.4
    Nova – 2.8
    Robertson – 5

    29 @ .6 = 16

    Benefits = 12

    Total = 160.2

  82. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    Hi, Austin, despite, Donna Mills, Naomi Watts, is,…considerable! :)

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o5MrB0uw9lo#

  83. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Mac

    To think Hanley was ever going to get to the open market is delusional. Same with Kershaw.

  84. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/n.....#038;rel=0

  85. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Steve-

    I think our target has to be 177, right ?

    Due to pension and benefits, etc.

  86. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    “Big FB game around here tomorrow, you going to watch ? ( ESPN)”

    Of course ….game has big meaning for homies too….if heels beat Dook then VT is in the ACC championship game

  87. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    “Steve-

    I think our target has to be 177, right ?

    Due to pension and benefits, etc.”

    He included the benefits…..that’s pretty close to what I figure too……so basically they can sign Cano and that’s about it unless they dip into the aroid money

  88. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    Assuming you need to hit 177 to make the 189 goal that would leave 17 mil + whatever they get for A-Rod.

    Maximum of 50 mil for Cano, Kuroda, Tanaka, Beltran, Infante , Grandy.

    Not happening.

  89. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    If Arod gets suspended all year then suddenly that 29ish million they have to spent becomes more like 60ish million they have to spend.

    This is why all Yankee fans should put aside morality and cheer for MLB to win the case

  90. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    OK max is 62 mil.

    An that assumes a complete season suspension.

    Even Cano, Kuroda, Tanaka, and Beltran puts you over.

  91. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    25 for Cano, 15 for Kuroda, 12 for Tanaka, and 12 for Beltran.

    That’s 64.

    I don’t think A-rod will get anywhere near a full season.

  92. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    “Even Cano, Kuroda, Tanaka, and Beltran puts you over.”

    Most likely yes….I see no way they can get both Kuroda and tanaka under the cap and address the outfield too…..if they are gonna stay under the cap then they will have to cut corners somewhere .

  93. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    I think they’ll do

    Cano 25
    Kuroda 15
    Beltran 13
    Feldman or somebody 7

    Not ideal but it’s what they’ll do IMO

  94. Against All Odds November 29th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock November 29th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Cano is the most misunderstood Yankee player in my “career” as a fan

    ————————————————-

    You can say that again. The below is from another board on a fans tak on Cano.

    ” I hear what you’re saying. But Robinson cano is no businessman. He’s an idiot ball player who all of a sudden fancies himself a star first and then a ball player. He’s delusional. Doesn’t that scare you ? Robinson, “duh, I can’t stop smiling even though I popped out, cano?” He’s a feeb.

    If I were calling the shots I’d say goodbye. Good riddance. Buh bye. I’d rather spend that money elsewhere. It’s not hard to fathom. He’s a player that I fear has peaked and after pocketing millions and hanging with his newfound posse, I expect diminishing returns. He’s no draw, everyone knows it. He’s greedy. As loonie said, many ask for the moon, but they don’t broadcast it. Cano is a dope. And he’s an ingrate.”

  95. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    I’m not counting on Tanaka….I think somebody else will get him

  96. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    MtU, I like, Shania Twain, positive! Lorrena McKinnet ( if I’m spelling it right ), has a beautiful voice. Sarah McLaughlin is, “building a mystery”.

  97. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Blake-

    Pass on Tanaka ?

    No Infante ?

    Who’s your 3b ?

  98. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    25 for Cano, 15 for Kuroda, 12 for Tanaka, and 12 for Beltran

    =============================

    Beltran for $12M is dreamin’

  99. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    “Who’s your 3b ?”

    Hey I don’t like it….just think it’s what they’ll do

  100. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Mills-

    Only a blind Man wouldn’t dig Shania.

    ;)

  101. blake November 29th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    I think Beltran would have to accept a 12 or 13 AAV before Id give him the 3rd year

  102. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    But Robinson cano is no businessman. He’s an idiot ball player who all of a sudden fancies himself a star first and then a ball player. He’s delusional

    ==========================

    Don’t know who authored this, but whoever did is about 25 IQ points short of being an idiot.

  103. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    AAA-

    maybe so. Then the problem is just that much more difficult.

    You’re gonna get Feldman over Tanaka ?

    OMG.

  104. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Blake-

    They must have someone at 3b.

    Reynolds ? Nunez ? Nix ?

    Whoa.

    Can’t even afford Reynolds.

  105. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    I think Beltran would have to accept a 12 or 13 AAV before Id give him the 3rd year

    ===========================

    Disagree. 3/$42M is the low water mark. Best possible case is 2 yrs with an option, but you’d still be talking $14M AAV minimum, IMO.

  106. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Then the problem is just that much more difficult.

    ==================

    Yeah, I’m with you on the degree of difficulty.

  107. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    rtsp://r1—sn-p5qlsu7d.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQlcC0XhV6sp9RMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Go, gilles villeneuve!!!

  108. blake November 29th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    “Disagree. 3/$42M is the low water mark. Best possible case is 2 yrs with an option, but you’d still be talking $14M AAV minimum, IMO.”

    As I said other day Id do 3/40 or 2/30 but that AAV has to come down before Id give him the 3rd year…..Victorino got 3/39 last year as a younger player…..seems like a fair number

  109. AAA November 29th, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    As I said other day Id do 3/40 or 2/30 but that AAV has to come down before Id give him the 3rd year…..Victorino got 3/39 last year as a younger player…..seems like a fair number

    ============================

    What’s fair have to do with it? This is free agency. Overpayment is king.

  110. blake November 29th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    MTU,
    Id sign infante or move Jeter there and get a SS but I’m not them ….I just don’t know how they are gonna do everything unless they are planning to go over 189

  111. blake November 29th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    “What’s fair have to do with it? This is free agency. Overpayment is king.”

    Nobody wants to give him the 3rd year though….sure somebody might go there and give him 3/45 or whatever he’s after but then again he might have to give a little to get the extra year if he wants it

  112. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Blake-

    Decisions, decisions.

    ;)

  113. blake November 29th, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Garth brooks has crazy eyes

  114. wanzies222 November 29th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Blake -

    189 is toast. Not possible.

  115. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Steve-

    You a tax attorney or CPA ?

    You said you work with numbers for a living.

  116. blake November 29th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Oh it’s possible….now whether it’s possible to do it and be competitive or not that’s the question.

    I still think they are gonna try to get under…..I hope I’m wrong

  117. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    rtsp://r8—sn-p5qlsu76.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQkGv0_ULmoO_RMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

  118. Against All Odds November 29th, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    AAA November 29th, 2013 at 9:52 pm
    But Robinson cano is no businessman. He’s an idiot ball player who all of a sudden fancies himself a star first and then a ball player. He’s delusional

    ==========================

    Don’t know who authored this, but whoever did is about 25 IQ points short of being an idiot.

    —————–

    A very angry fan authored that piece of material lol.

  119. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    Against, lol, nice to see you; guilty seccret, I love that Phil song, very talented guy, no doubt, Gwen.

  120. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    Phil Collins was an over the top, premium #1 drummer, with, Genesis.

  121. jacksquat November 29th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    wanzies, not everyone on the 40 man gets $600k minimum.

    Players on the major league roster (25 man) get a 500k minimum in 2014.

    For the rest of the 40, non first timers on the 40 man the minimum is $81,500, first timers get a minimum of $40,750.

    So you have some extra millions there.

  122. MTU November 29th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    No matter how you slice it.

    To get the ones we may really need it will either be very close, or simply not possible.

    Have good night.

    See you tomorrow.

  123. jacksquat November 29th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Yankee fans should have to do math though.

  124. jacksquat November 29th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    should *not*

  125. jacksquat November 29th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    And I wouldn’t go 3 years for Beltran.

  126. Jerkface November 29th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    You also need to factor in bump room for bonuses and players pulled off waivers etc.

  127. jmills November 29th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    rtsp://v8.cache1.c.youtube.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQlKfvLdSgxmNxMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Glenn Gould

  128. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    Garth has crazy eyes but he’s still incredibly talented

  129. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Dodgers looking to extend Ramirez. Kershaw coming down the pike. A rotation that’s already a bit clogged. Starting to think the Dodgers will not be the Yanks’ prime competitor for Tanaka. Clearly the Yanks should be about a thousand times more motivated than Big Blue when it comes time to post. I’m sure, absent the Dodgers, they’ll be several other serious competitors for Tanaka. Just nice to know it may not be them.

  130. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    The cubbies will bid big on Tanaka I bet

  131. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    I can def see the Cubs. I put the Yanks odds at even now, 1-1, up from 3-2 against before I figured this Dodger thing out. They are the franchise with the most money and should be among the most, if not the most, motivated. That makes them a clear favorite. But there’s still the field so 50-50 sounds right.

  132. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    I actually think the fact that it’s a closed bid hurts the Yankees chances…..and now that the winner only has to pay the average of the top 2 bids I think it’ll cause somebody to be super aggressive and throw a huge number out there……Hal just doesn’t seem the type to do that…..if it was an open bid and the yanks knew what it would take then maybe they’d go high enough to win but since it’s essentially a guessing game I just don’t know if they will do what’s needed to win……

  133. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    I think I previously thought their bid should be around 67. But this team seems more motivated so I say between 70-72. With a five year contract at $60MM that makes the total payout pro-rated over $25MM a year, probably close to $30MM considering present value of the posting fee. That’s a real big number. I think that should do it. That’s a very expensive asset and I don’t think other teams will go there.

  134. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    I think somebody might bid 80+…..cause they know they won’t have to pay it all

  135. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:37 pm

    There’s no agreement yet on averaging the top two bids and as I pointed out before, from a game theory prospective, that does not change the bidding strategy. If that does go through, the players will up there bids accordingly each knowing they won’t have to pay the full amount of their bid.

  136. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    “If that does go through, the players will up there bids accordingly each knowing they won’t have to pay the full amount of their bid.”

    Yes but there are different levels of that

  137. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    I know there are tax advantages and age advantages to Tanaka…..but he’s no sure thing. He’s not Darvish by almost all accounts……if you gonna have to spend 130+ million total for him I could see them turning elsewhere……

  138. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    Hard to imagine someone bidding 85. If you bid 85 then you are presuming you’ll pay 80. Now that contract is worth over $30MM a year pro-rated with present value. Pitchers just don’t get paid that much. At least not until Kershaw signs.

  139. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:45 pm

    bigdan22 says:
    November 29, 2013 at 11:41 pm
    Hard to imagine someone bidding 85. If you bid 85 then you are presuming you’ll pay 80. Now that contract is worth over $30MM a year pro-rated with present value. Pitchers just don’t get paid that much. At least not until Kershaw signs.

    It’d have to be the Dodgers or Cubs or somebody with loads of money to spend…..it depends on the new rules as well. I think the yanks should get him regardless of the risk because at 25 he could be an affordable (AAV wise) long term solution ……I’m just not that confident they’ll be aggressive enough to get it done

  140. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    I think you have the put the Red Sox and Rangers there as well. Perhaps the Mariners. The Blue Jays are well-heeled too. They’ll be a team or two we aren’t thinking of as well. I just don’t see the number getting much above $70MM though.

  141. blake November 29th, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    bigdan22 says:
    November 29, 2013 at 11:49 pm
    I think you have the put the Red Sox and Rangers there as well. Perhaps the Mariners. The Blue Jays are well-heeled too. They’ll be a team or two we aren’t thinking of as well. I just don’t see the number getting much above $70MM though.

    And it may not….but if you bid 70 I don’t think there is nah guarantee you win…..

  142. bigdan22 November 29th, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    It will be interesting to see if he’ll settle for a $60MM contract too. There’s talk that the winning bid team will have to forfeit some money to the Japanese team even if they don’t sign Tanaka. If that’s the case, that will give Tanaka more leverage than others before him.

    There’s quite a bit of risk here. $70MM is a big number.

  143. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 12:00 am

    If the Dodgers really want to screw the Yanks, they can give Ramirez a 10 year extension.

  144. blake November 30th, 2013 at 12:02 am

    bigdan22 says:
    November 30, 2013 at 12:00 am
    If the Dodgers really want to screw the Yanks, they can give Ramirez a 10 year extension

    They’d be screening theirselves at the same time though

  145. blake November 30th, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Screwing

  146. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 7:04 am

    I don’t mind being a proud Canadian, in fact, sometimes, it even feels good :D Arguably we had the greatest classical pianist of the 20th century in, Glenn Gould, and the greatest jazz entry in, Oscar Peterson. There!

  147. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 7:09 am

    ….don’t forget, the greatest puck observer, #4.

  148. pat November 30th, 2013 at 7:17 am

    2013 MLB drug testing program conducted 5391 tests including 1369 tests for HGH. 8 positives for stimulants and 13 non-analytical positives was what was detected for the season excluding the 122 players who had therapeutic use exemptions.

    Of the 122 MLB players who had therapeutic use exemptions in 2013- 119 were for ADD which allowed them to use amphetamine similar medications with league approval and 3 for hypogonadism which allowed them to use testosterone type drugs.

  149. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 7:28 am

    I wonder what Keith Hernandez has to say about all the goings on.

  150. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 7:35 am

    http://r1—sn-ux3n588t-mj.....&mv=m

    My favourite Christmas song.

  151. blake November 30th, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Gettin my Clark Griswald on today……by tonight my power meter will probably be spinning

  152. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Sorry, blake my man, I’m going to have to look up, Griswald; forgive me, give me a minute, I promise that action Mark Belanger card your way to make up for it!

  153. blake November 30th, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Jmills ,
    If you haven’t seen the movie Christmas vacation then watch it immediately

  154. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:03 am

    Morning guys.

    What’s the latest ?

    Interesting back and forth on Tanaka last night.

    :)

  155. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 8:08 am

    http://r4—sn-ux3n588t-mj.....&mv=m

    Now I get it, I best be watching the whole thing :D

  156. austinmac November 30th, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Blake,

    Don’t fall off the ladder.

  157. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 8:19 am

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/t.....#038;rel=0

    Austin, me and, Donna, send you our best!

  158. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Good morning

    Rumor: There has been interest in trading for Chris Stewart before Monday, the final day to tender contracts.

    My guess is that he’ll be non tendered and become a FA, without getting traded for something.

  159. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    BTW, it was Mo’s BDay yesterday.

  160. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Cashman and Levine to meet again on Monday with Cano’s agents. ? 8 years, $200,000,001. Pure speculation on my part.

    Currently it’s 7 years, $168,000,000. Would you go the extra year and the extra 1M/year?

  161. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    YT-

    If they could get a bag of numbnuts for Stewart they should go for it.

    ;)

  162. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:29 am

    YT-

    I’d go to 200 but no more.

    And I would try to get the contract creatively structured too.

    ;)

  163. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:37 am

    MTU

    Looking up “numbnuts.”

    A complete dumba%#@, one whose intelligence quotient does not surpass that of the average rock. :)

    jmills-
    Numb Nuts- an album released in 2000 by the English punk rock band, Snuff.

    So therefore, the Yankees don’t need any more numbnuts in their front office. I say no deal for numbnuts. :)

  164. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    MTU-

    How are things going with Lucky?

  165. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:39 am

    If you live in the far northern or southern climes you surely know what numbnuts are.

    :)

  166. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    YT-

    Slow steady improvement.

    Stitches come out in about a week if everything goes well.

    Then it’s back to a single front war again.

  167. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    And I almost forgot my manners.

    Thank you for asking YT.

    :)

  168. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    so cano says it wasnt him who put out the 10/$310M number.

    is he creating a little distance between himself and jay-z?

    http://nypost.com/2013/11/29/c.....al-report/

  169. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Here are some of the available free agent second baseman, if Cano signs elsewhere:

    Alexi Casilla (29)
    Jamey Carroll (40)
    Alberto Gonzalez (31)
    Mark Ellis (37)
    Omar Infante (32)
    Kelly Johnson (32)
    Brian Roberts (36)
    Ryan Roberts (33)
    Ramon Santiago (34)
    Josh Wilson (33)

    If the Yankees don’t make any headway this week, I agree with MTU, try to sign Infante, and press on with trying to fill the ther holes.

  170. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:46 am

    I would love for it be true as Steve has indicated, i.e. 189 is toast.

    That said, I am leaning more towards Blake’s position right now that they are going to improve
    but still try to stay under.

    I hope that they are dead serious about getting Tanaka as part of their plans.

    If they stay under they will not be able to meet all of their needs.

    For example, no Infante.

  171. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    YT-

    The best single replacement for a departing Cano would Brandon Phillips via Trade.

    Infante is a close 2nd.

    Phillips can hit and is a wizard w the leather. Natural leader and great clubhouse guy.

    He’s in the mold of Granderson as a player.

  172. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Numb nuts, is it crass to have them over breaky?

  173. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    If Cano can’t be signed (doubtful that he won’t be) and they get say 18 mil from A-Rod.

    They’d have an extra 43 mil to play with.

    Even if you knock McCann’s money out of that you still might be able to get Beltran or Grandy, and Infante
    w. the remainder.

  174. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Mills-

    No more so than Rocky Mountain oysters.

    ;)

  175. blake November 30th, 2013 at 8:54 am

    austinmac says:
    November 30, 2013 at 8:16 am
    Blake,

    Don’t fall off the ladder.

    Too late … I’m ok though

  176. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    If, for the 2014 season, Beltran gets 14M, and Kuroda accepts the same 15M that he got this season, and both are signed before the winter meetings, there won’t be much left to fill the holes at 2nd, 3rd, SP, and a bullpen lrfty, plus a bench. and stay under the 189M threshold.

    Just an opinion, but if we see those signings above, they have raised their 2014 budget a certain amount above the limit.

  177. wanzies222 November 30th, 2013 at 9:01 am

    MTU -

    Good morning …

    Quick comment on Phillips – no thanks.

    He’s 33, coming off a down year offensively and is not what you think he is in the clubhouse.

    If your goal is to stay under 189 (not mine, I’ll stick with my position), then you’d have to trade players that create holes elsewhere to get him with no money to replace him.

    Again, no thanks.

    JMO.

  178. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    http://r1—sn-ux3n588t-mj.....&mv=m

    I found this numb nuts video, not sure if it was what YT was thinking of.

  179. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 9:05 am

    i think the current plan is to stay under 189 IF arod is suspended for the season.

    then i think they will still go over if its necessary to land tanaka.

  180. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Brandon Phillips remaining contract:

    14:$11M, 15:$12M, 16:$13M, 17:$14M
    award bonuses, including $75,000 for All-Star selection

    Dustin Pedroia contract:

    14:$12.5M, 15:$12.5M, 16:$13M, 17:$15M, 18:$16M, 19:$15M, 20:$13M, 21:$12M

    MTU-

    Like Phillips but the easiest less expensive route, if Cano leaves, would be Infante, with $$$$ left over for other needs.

  181. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Thanks for your take Steve.

    Guess we can agree to disagree on that one a little.

    Infante is a much simpler and more efficient solution.

    Not sure they’ll go after him though unless Cano splits.

    By then it might be too late.

    P.S. I didn’t mean to invade your privacy yesterday but I was a bit disappointed that you didn’t
    feel comfortable answering my question about the general parameters of your profession.

  182. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    New one ——>

  183. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    New Post—->

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