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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Looking ahead to Monday’s non-tender deadline

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 30, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Chris Stewart

Right now the Yankees 40-man roster sits at 39 players, and we know they’re on the verge of adding Brendan Ryan and Brian McCann. That means at least one roster spot needs to be opened almost immediately. It’s worth noting, though, that it doesn’t always make sense to open a roster spot by non-tendering a player. If it’s all about opening a 40-man spot, the Yankees would be better off designating for a assignment some of their younger players who might clear waivers and remain in the organization.

Really, I see only two really strong non-tender candidates on the current roster.

1. Chris Stewart — The Brian McCann signing more or less wiped out his chances of making the team out of camp. Might be worth adding a Stewart-type on a minor league deal, but the Yankees — and Stewart — would be better off going in a different direction.

2. Jayson Nix — Perfectly good utility infielder, but with Brendan Ryan signed to a multi-year deal, Nix doesn’t have much of a role to play. Again, might be worth getting a Nix-type on a minor league deal — they’ve already done that with Yamaico Navarro — but it’s not worth keep Nix on the roster and giving him an arbitration raise.

Those two are arbitration eligible, in line to make roughly a million apiece, and have already been crowded out by offseason moves. That’s what makes them good non-tender candidates. The other marginal Yankees players who could come off the 40-man at some point don’t come with an overwhelming need to non-tender. It might happen, but the benefit is limited and a DFA might be a better way to go. Guys like Ichiro Suzuki and Vernon Wells are signed to guaranteed deals, so non-tendering them isn’t really an option and serves no purpose.

Matt DaleyHere are five other names that could very easily come off the 40-man at some point, but perhaps not on Monday.

3. Matt Daley — Given all the holes the Yankees have to fill, it’s hard to imagine Daley staying on the 40-man all winter. He could absolutely be non-tendered, but as a guy who’s making the minimum, there’s not much upside to it. Could DFA him instead and do basically the same thing. If I had to guess right now, I’d say he’ll be non-tendered just because there’s not much for him to do going forward.

4. David Huff — Could legitimately make the roster as a left-handed reliever and possible spot starter, but the crowded 40-man just doesn’t leave much room for him. He’s apparently not arbitration eligible, which means there’s little financial upside to non-tendering him. That said, he probably should have the right to refuse a outright assignment to the minors, which means a DFA is basically the same as a non-tender. Seems like their fourth-best non-tender candidate to me.

5. Brett Marshall — Now we’re into the guys with almost no reason to non-tender. Marshall is coming off a pretty bad year in Triple-A, and he’s clearly behind David Phelps, Adam Warren and Vidal Nuno in the fifth starter / long reliever pecking order. But he does have a good sinker, and if the Yankees can’t keep him on the 40-man, might as well DFA him in hopes of clearing waivers and keeping him in the system. Might not keep his 40-man spot, but that doesn’t mean he’s not worth a contract.

6. Eduardo Nunez — The Brendan Ryan signing creates real questions about the role for Nunez going forward. The Yankees clearly felt the need to get additional shortstop insurance, and basically leaves Nunez third in the pecking order. Non-tender him, though? Surely there’s still some trade value in a relatively young guy who has some offensive potential. I would think that a few teams would be interested in getting a first-hand look at him. And he’s still not arbitration eligible. Unless the Yankees have decided Nunez has absolutely no value, they might as well at least tender him a contract offer and see what happens.

7. Ramon Flores — A perfectly good outfield prospect with some speed and a good eye at the plate, but Flores could become a victim of numbers at some point. He shouldn’t be non-tendered, but he could be DFA to open a roster spot. Flores does a lot of things pretty well, but he’s been primarily a left fielder and he’s never hit for power. Even his speed numbers are not overwhelming. He’s just not a typical corner outfielder, and that might hurt him given the roster crunch.

Associated Press photos

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537 Responses to “Looking ahead to Monday’s non-tender deadline”

  1. tucker November 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Stewie and Nixie? Girardi may not be able to handle losing both.

  2. Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    I have said this before that when it come to statistics in defense, one has to see a player do his stuff to understand how great he is. If you watch the replays, you can appreciate the instincts that Cano has at the crack of the bat in getting to the ball. I would rate Cano’s ability above many of the great fielding light hitting players that the Yankees had, like Jerry Colemen, at 2nd base. The Yankees did have a second basemen who did win a batting title and his name was Snuffy Stirnweiss who did it during the war years with a BA of 309.

  3. tucker November 30th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Cano is a very, very good player, but he is not a superstar. He wants ARod or Pujols-type pay, but he has never achieved the offensive accomplishments of those two players. I’d like to see him re-signed, but he is not a $300 million player.

    I could care less about his perceived lack of hustle. If dogging it out of the batter’s box prevents a groin pull, that’s fine with me. Cano’s never on the disabled list. So much of Pedroia’s hustle is for show, IMO. It doesn’t help him beat out infield grounders. His jump routine at every pitch does not get him to ground balls faster.

    Cano deserves a big pay day. Just not $300 million. I would not give him more than $200 million.

  4. Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Tucker, Cano is in Roger Hornsby’s class and that makes him a super star, and Hornsby could not hold a candle to Cano when it comes to fielding the position. He may not be worth the big big bucks of Pujois type pay, but that does not diminish his billing as a super star instead of a very good player.

  5. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Hank all due respect there are only two players ever to win the triple crown twice, Ted Williams and Hornsby.

    Hornsby also won the MVP twice, led the league in batting 7 times hit for over .400 three times and has the highest lifetime BA for the NL .359.

    I Love Robbie Cano, I have watched almost everyone of his games. To compare him with Hornsby is a farce just based on the numbers which btw is all we have.

  6. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Sorry my mistake Hornsby lifetime BA is .358..

  7. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    MTU needs to weigh in in this since he saw Hornsby play live :)

  8. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    When you compare McCann’s and Stewart’s photographs, who looks more like a catcher?

  9. tucker November 30th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Superstar is more of a qualitative assessment. What makes a superstar? When I think superstar, I imagine a player like Miguel Cabrera, Mike Trout, Pujols in his prime, etc. Cano has never hit more than 30 HRs, no batting title, etc., but he’s the best second basemen in baseball today.

    Hornsby is the best offensive 2bmen ever. He OPS’d over 1.000 8 out of 9 years in the 1920s, hit more than .400 for three seasons, hit about 40 HRs per season for several years, was awarded two MVPs. When it comes to the best to ever play second base, Hornsby stands alone.

  10. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    How’d bird turn out Tom?

  11. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    So that would make Cano the best second baseman to come along in eighty years? I agree he doesn’t match Hornsby’s stats from the 20′s and 30′s. But, C’mon, There are only so many greatest in 8o years type guys that you’ve homegrown.

  12. tucker November 30th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Edit: Cano hit 33 HRs one season.

  13. Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Rhapsody, I am not comparing Cano to Hornsby in his batting ability but throughout baseball history, second basemen were known more for their fielding abilities and not their power and BA. Hornsby was not known for being a great fielder, and as I consider Hornsby a super star because of his offensive abilities and would put him on a team as the greatest 2nd basemen of all time, I would consider Cano to be a super star because of the combination of hitting and fielding and put him behind Hornsby. Name me another 2nd basemen who could beat Cano out for fielding, power and BA other then Hornsby?

  14. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    They used saw mill slats for bats when Hornsby played right? It’s impossible to compare him to Cano…..Cano is one of the 5 best players in baseball today and has been for 3 or 4 years.

    He doesn’t have a superstar personality…..but on the field he is one……Jeter is a super star….and cano is every bit as good a player as Jeter was…..you could argue that Jeter was never as good as cano is now

  15. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Hank

    No argument there. I only find dispute when folks here call Robbie the greatest ever which he is not.

    Let me know when Cano wins an MVP or a triple crown.

  16. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I’ve changed my position on Robbie a little bit over the last few weeks……he still worries me about the back end of the contract but you know what……this is the Yankees and he’s their best player by mile……I’m tired of making excuses for why they shouldn’t sign him. They should sign him …..if he’s overpaid at the back end so what……cost of doing business…..he was underpaid for years so it evens out

  17. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    blake,
    Mrs. Tom did it perfectly in the traditional way.
    She also excels at from-scratch mashed potatoes, green bean casserole, gravy, and everything else. I make scratch cranberry-orange sauce (big deal, I know), and I bought a good pie. It was so good we did a complete replay last night.

    Tonight, with what as left over, it’s turkey and dumpling soup, great for a cold day in Georgia. It’s warmer in New Jersey than it is here.

    Now, let’s go get Beltran and Infante, and worry about Cano later when his side decides to be rational.

  18. Against All Odds November 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Hornsby also played for an incredibly long time.

  19. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Rogers Hornsby had 350 plate appearances over his last 8 years. His last good season of over 100 at bats was his age 35 season After that he was more a big name crowd draw that rarely saw the field but did play 2b, 3b, 1b, rt field and is listed as of.

  20. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    “When you compare McCann’s and Stewart’s photographs, who looks more like a catcher?”

    mccaan is getting fatter each year, but that didn’t hurt molina when he was with the yankees that much.

    i think the problem for maccann is why is he getting fatter? is he too lazy to work out? does he eat too much? is he too beat up to work out? he definitely hasn’t played in many games the past three years.

    if he’s going to be worth his contract he needs to get in shape to play 130 games at the catcher position. he hasn’t done that in years.

  21. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    blake,
    Didn’t the Duke coach come from GA Tech?

  22. tucker November 30th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    I hope the Yanks keep Cano. It won’t be the end of the world if they don’t. I agree that the back end of the contract could be ugly.

    Blake, if you were able to get any five players in MLB today to start a team, would Cano be in that top 5?

  23. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    tomingeorgia says:
    November 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    blake,
    Didn’t the Duke coach come from GA Tech?

    Glad to hear you had a nice and tasty turkey day….I believe Cutcliffe is a Tennessee man isn’t he?

  24. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    randy,
    All I was saying is that Stewart looks bespoke, while McCann looks ready to go up against Papi’s ego.

  25. mick November 30th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    watching game 163 , 1978, what a game!

  26. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    blake,
    Looked up Cutcliffe, helluva pedigree. Started under Bear Bryant, then Tennessee, the head coach at Ole Miss, the Notre Dame, back to Tennessee again, then heart surgery. Finally, Duke. He sure has turned that program around, hasn’t he?

  27. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Rogers Hornsby got 127 at bats over his last 5 years, all with the St. L. Browns in the American League.
    Can you image the stats he could have added to his totals if they had a DH. role for him back then?
    He was a black hole on defense. They snuck him in the line-up for his bat and his name.

  28. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    OK Blake.

    I’ll weigh in.

    About 170.

    How’s that ?

    Seriously, I agree w you. It would be very difficult to compare a player like Hornsby w Cano being several generations apart.

    Numbers wise you can’t argue against Hornsby put you have to flesh things out a bit more I’d think
    to know the whole story.

    I can say that Cano is one of the best 2b of this generation. Maybe the best.

    Over time we will see where his #’s take him in the all-time rankings.

    P.S. Dinosaur omelets are really tasty but really, really filling. Especially if you get the side order of
    Brontosaurus bacon w. Teradactyl toast to go w it.

    ;)

  29. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    blake,
    Looked up Cutcliffe, helluva pedigree. Started under Bear Bryant, then Tennessee, the head coach at Ole Miss, the Notre Dame, back to Tennessee again, then heart surgery. Finally, Duke. He sure has turned that program around, hasn’t he?

    Yup sure does…..Peyton manning worked out there with him when he was making his come back

  30. blake November 30th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    MTU,
    Could Hornsby turn the double play like Robbie? ;)

  31. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    I think there is some chance, not a big one mind you, but some chance Cano signs this coming week.

    It’s being reported that the two sides are still over $100MM apart after meeting/talking Tues and Wed this past week. If that’s the case, why do they want to meet on Monday? When sides to a negotiation are at an impasse, the thing to do is take a break and/or wait for something to happen outside the one on one negotiation. Some event or action by a third party that chances the calculus somewhat. But these parties are supposedly meeting on Monday. That presumes there’s something to talk about. Maybe they are truly negotiating. If that’s the case, there’s a chance for a breakthrough next week.

  32. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    The Rajah may have been the greatest right-handed hitter of all time.

  33. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Man.

    Goose threw a 2 1/3 inng. save in the Bucky Dent game with Lyle in the pen for Yaz for the final out.

    Amazing!

  34. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Hornsby played during the same era as the Bambino who is usually at the top of the greatest ever lists.

  35. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Blake-

    I’m sorry GB is not here to answer that one.

    :(

    Maybe Hank in Fla. will take it ?

  36. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Negotiations of all types are very poorly reported in the media. That’s probably a good thing. When the sides are talking publically that usually means they are not serious yet about getting down to the nuts and bolts of bargaining. When both sides shut up, that usually means something positive is going on. The “no comment” is key. And it’s always a good thing when you see continuous meetings. Pretty hard to agree to anything if you are not talking.

  37. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    I wonder how prohibition (1920-33) effected the game. I’m sure the Babe knew where to get a cold one.

  38. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    I was just watching Baseball the other day. Apparently Hornsby delayed his mother’s funeral so he could play a game. It might have been a World Series game.

  39. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Hornsby appeared to be a butcher in the field with 2B a fallback position for about 10 years.

    Cano, indeed, could be on his way to being the best all around 2B of all time.

  40. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Some fielding info on Hornsby from the Hornsby site:

    First, consider the fact that Hornsby at various times played three important defensive positions and played them very well.

    He played third base in 1916 and in at least one prominent annual survey was selected as the tops at his position in all of baseball.

    In 1917 he played shortstop all season, and was outstanding. He lead the league in double plays and was 21 fielding runs above average. His fielding numbers that year were better than many of the renowned fielding shortstops such as Rabbit Maranville, etc.

    In 1918 he again played shortstop and was again outstanding. He had the highest assist per inning total of any shortstop in the National League. On the Rogers Hornsby thread there have been posted glowing comments about his fielding at shortstop that season from sportswriters, one who went so far as to describe him as perhaps the best fielding shortstop in the National League. The Baseball Encyclopedia finds that he had the best range of any shortstop in the National League that season.

    In 1919 Hornsby had a Honus Wagner like defensive season where he played numerous positions.

    1920 was Hornsby’s first year as a full time second baseman. He lead the league in putouts, assists, and double plays. His assist per inning average was the highest in the league and the Baseball Encyclopedia finds that he had the best range of any second baseman in the league that season.

    In 1921 Hornsby second year as a second baseman was second in the league in putouts, assists and double plays.

    In 1922 Hornsby, in his third year as a second baseman, was first in the league in putouts, double plays and fielding percentage and second in the league in assists. I think his leading in fielding percentage that year is perhaps his most notable fielding accomplishment that season given the fact that he played in every single game on the schedule.

    In 1923 he suffered a torn left knee which caused him to miss 47 games, and which also affected his mobility during the period he attempted to play with the injury.

    In 1924 he was second in the league in double plays. In 1925 he was again second in the league in double plays, only one behind the leader, though his per game average was higher.

    In 1926 was Hornsby’s injury plagued season, where he suffered a serious back injury in May, and then later suffered a bacterial infection which caused him to be hospitalized for a while and to become severely weakened. He played the rest of the season with these ailments and both his offensive and defensive numbers suffered greatly. A large component of the defensive stats used to attack Hornsby’s defensive record are from his under performance during this season. It has also been discussed in detail on the Hornsby thread that during the seasons Hornsby was a player manager his putout numbers were depressed likely due to the fact that Hornsby worked out arrangements with his teammates for them to cover optional pop flies which Hornsby had never liked to deal with because of his vertigo problem. (A fair division of labor since Hornsby as manager had to closely watch and handle his pitchers). I suspect that those systems which use putout totals as one of the ingredients to judge an infielders range will give a misimpression of Hornsby’s actual range.

    In 1927 Hornsby was healthy again and was simply a player again (except for 33 games as interim manager during McGraw’s illness) and he posted outstanding fielding totals. His assist per game total in 1927 was the third best in the history of baseball.

    In 1928 Hornsby was back to being a player manager and his totals went down again, as once again he arranged for teammates to cover the pop flies.

    In 1929 Hornsby was just a player again, and his numbers shot back up. He led the league in assists and double plays. He was second in fielding percentage only one percentage point behind the league leader and it should be noted he played 49 games more that the league leader in fielding percentage so as a practical matter he was really the best in the league in that department as well.

    He developed his serious heel spur problem at the end of th 1929 season and had to have the operation on his foot in the off season, and then broke his ankle early in the 1930 season. I don’t think he ever fully recovered his range or mobility following these later career injuries.

    It should also be noted that Hornsby for his career has the 7th highest assist per game average (3.31 assists per game) of any second baseman in the history of baseball. If you factor out the games he played with injuries and those in his late career when he had the heel spur problem, he would probably be close to being the best in history.

    You should also read the many glowing tributes to Hornsby’s fielding ability from his contemporaries such as George Sisler, Hugh Jennings, etc. In addition to his great range as reflected in his assist totals, he was also considered the best in baseball at turning the double play. George Sisler said his throw was the best of any second baseman he ever saw.

    The same outstanding skills which made Hornsby a phenomenal hitter such as great reflexes, quickness and speed, were obviously carried with him when he played in the field as well.

  41. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    RIB,
    Apparently, everybody did. That’s the origin of NYC’s 21 Club, and a lot of other upscale places.

  42. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Mick-

    They didn’t use WAR in those days.

    At least not on a baseball field.

    ;)

  43. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Just looking at the tweets on this page from Yankee players (or ex). I think Joba still belongs in High School.

    People talking a bit about Hughes this week. I think I’ve seen the vast majority of his starts (didn’t see the Texas one) and at no time was I ever impressed. But Joba, now that was something else. I remember him throwing a wipe out 91 mph slider. I remember him hitting 97 in the 7th inning against the Sox. I remember him with four legit pitches including a very nice curve.

    What the hell happened there? The team, the player, both? In a baseball life, there are very few people who appear on the scene who had what he had. Now that is a shame. Phil wasn’t a shame. Phil was just bad.

  44. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    “All I was saying is that Stewart looks bespoke, while McCann looks ready to go up against Papi’s ego.”

    yes, it does seem that mccann does a short fuse with opposing latin players.

    personally i think mccaan was totally out of line with gomez though gomez went too far with his home run trot.

  45. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Joba got caught up in the Jobamania that was Yankee Stadium back then.
    He was made to relieve here and his instant success defined him as a reliever.
    He didn’t translate as a starter once he established himself as the phenom reliever he became.
    Call it an identity crisis.

  46. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    randy,
    Your preconceptions haven’t changed, I see. Sorry to have offended you.

  47. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    8/200 should get Cano tho’ they must want 250.
    Who else will blow that away?

  48. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    Buckeyes, done (by an eyelash), Duke, done (also, by an eyelash). Waiting on Auburn, UGA, South Carolina and the rest.

  49. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    props to michigan for having the balls to go for the 2 pointer to win.

    too bad it didn’t work.

    instant classic osu-michigan game!

  50. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Mick-

    There are several Teams that can afford Cano.

    The Nats are a dark horse. The Dodgers can. The Tigers probably can. The Rangers can.

    There may be others.

    The Yankees are not alone. They have company.

  51. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    MTU

    It appears that Robbie is ripe for the taking, with our restrictions and all.

  52. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    I wonder if the endorsements in NY are worth that much more than Det or Wash?
    LA might be equivalent.

  53. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Mick-

    I think so unfortunately.

    Our budget is not unlimited as of now.

    I don’t think Hal likes bidding wars.

  54. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Most players go where the money is.

    If Cano gets a substantially higher offer than what the Yankees are prepared to offer I’d color him gone.

    ;)

  55. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    “Your preconceptions haven’t changed, I see. Sorry to have offended you.”

    tomingeorgia-

    mccaan made an ass of himself with that stunt with gomez.

    there’s no preconceptions involved.

    i like the fact he’s a good left handed hitting catcher, but he’s got to earn his pinstripes before i warm up to him.

    he got paid, by the way, for offense . no defensive catcher only gets paid that kind of money.

    if mccaan can play 135 games and have an .800 + OPS then i’ll be pretty happy with him.

  56. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Mick-

    I bet Taxes are.

    ;)

  57. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Texas has no state Income Tax.

  58. mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    MTU

    I said it before but Hal’s “edict” appears to be in operation as of now.
    It’s a game of chicken.
    If Cano doesn’t cave, they have to spend.
    Other teams will wait then pounce and compete with each other if Yanks are spent.

  59. blake November 30th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Randy ,
    You’re gonna like McCann….he’s a redneck Posada. Old school type player that loves to play baseball and doesn’t take crap off the other team. Yanks been missing guys like him

  60. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Mick-

    As you no doubt know “chicken” is a dangerous game.

    ;)

  61. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    “he got paid, by the way, for offense . no defensive catcher only gets paid that kind of money.”

    Also his pitch framing (5th best in baseball last year) and is leadership

  62. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Blake-

    I hear McCann likes BBQ and moonshine.

    :)

  63. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    And NASCAR.

    ;)

  64. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    And hushpuppies and grits.

    :)

  65. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    MTU

    If losing Cano gets you Choo and Ellsbury would you do it?

  66. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    McCann is a actually a good pitch framer…..not like Stewie who frames a lot of balls while chasing them to the backstop

  67. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Campy took nothing from anybody.

  68. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    “MTU says:
    November 30, 2013 at 4:00 pm
    Blake-

    I hear McCann likes BBQ and moonshine.”

    Hey he’s a good ole GA boy…..I’m happy we have a redneck

  69. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    AJ P. has attitude. And swings from the left side.

    What happened to him ?

  70. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    MTU says:
    November 30, 2013 at 4:02 pm
    AJ P. has attitude. And swings from the left side.

    What happened to him ?”

    Yanks just never have shown interest in him…..he’s a terrible defender and he’s old and I just don’t think they like his personality

  71. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Mick-

    As long as I have Infante yes.

    I don’t prefer it.

    I’d like Cano back.

  72. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    so infante, choo and ellsbury = cano?

    what about ellsbury, beltran and infante?

  73. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Choo + Ellsbury + cano is where it’s at…..that’s how you get better

  74. Against All Odds November 30th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    mick November 30th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    ————————–

    His status as a phenom reliever was based on 24 innings

  75. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Blake-

    He has the same kind of edge that McCann has.

    McCann is no great shakes as a defender since his surgery.

    they only needed someone for a 1 or 2 yrs.

    Would have done the trick a lot more cheaply.

    I really never understood the reluctance.

  76. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    His status as a phenom reliever was based on 24 innings
    ===============================
    that’s ~ 24 games.
    whatever it was based on, it was real.

  77. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    “You’re gonna like McCann….he’s a redneck Posada. Old school type player that loves to play baseball and doesn’t take crap off the other team. Yanks been missing guys like him”

    blake-

    i like old fashioned throw back country hardball players , but if “red neck” is another word for bigoted a hole, then count me out. he confronted Jose Fernandez and Carlos Gomez at home plate in a three week period.

    he needs to lose that act at home plate. he’ll get suspended if he pulls it again. that’s not going to help the yankees.

    “is his judge-and-jury act a calculated effort to send a message to his team and any future opponents? Is he taking on the role of leader of men in the post-Chipper era? Or is he simply a hair-trigger enforcer playing schoolyard cop? If his motivation was to motivate, the Braves’ response — two hits and zero runs off Kyle Lohse in their nine offensive innings after the incident — should have him considering other approaches.”

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....z-incident

  78. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    mick-

    Ellsbury, Beltran, and Infante is a good combo.

    Maybe Choo, Beltran, and Infante too.

    Still missing a 3b that way though.

  79. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    MTU,
    I thought he was a good fit last year and even as a consideration this year…..but they just don’t seem to like each other

  80. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Would have done the trick a lot more cheaply.

    I really never understood the reluctance.
    ===========================
    it would of been more of the same with ajp.
    another old player.
    let’s hope hal has seen the error of his ways and is moving in another direction
    altho beltran might indicate he isn’t.

  81. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    “i like old fashioned throw back country hardball players , but if “red neck” is another word for bigoted a hole, then count me out.”

    There are all different levels of redneck…..McCann isn’t a jerk ….he just plays the game a certain way and part of that is just the Braves…..they are old school and kinda thin skinned about things

  82. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Still missing a 3b that way though.
    =========================
    depends on arod.
    nunez and reynolds for now.
    maybe some ryan.

  83. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Blake-

    It’s dumb.

    He’s an intelligent guy who’s a good competitor.

    Ever hear him talk baseball on ESPN ? He’s good. No dummy.

    Anyway, it’s water under the bridge now.

  84. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    Mick-

    Nunez and Reynolds plus Ryan doesn’t exactly inspire great confidence.

    I wanted Infante over there but that means we need Cano.

  85. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    yeah Mick.

    Beltran is a counterpoint to what you are saying.

    ;)

  86. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Cano, infante, Tanaka, and Choo would be close to the limit…..might could fit if Ichiro would retire and MLB wins their case against Arod!

  87. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    A-rod isn’t getting off anymore than he is getting all 214.

  88. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Infante is really a 2B by trade.
    They really have to wait on arod.

  89. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Blake-

    If A-Rod got 162 it would be very close.

  90. Against All Odds November 30th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
    His status as a phenom reliever was based on 24 innings
    ===============================
    that’s ~ 24 games.
    whatever it was based on, it was real.

    ——————-

    It was actually 19 games he pitched.

    It was real in a sense that it happened but it wasn’t who he really was.. A majority of his appearances occurred with no one was on base. The made sure he would come into an inning clean except for the last one of the season. He didn’t pitch back to back days until the end of the yr and if he got up they made it a rule he had to be used. Why do fans think he never duplicate that again. Did ppl think he would have a .38 ERA for the rest of his career.

  91. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    A real redneck doesn’t like to get shown up by anybody, no matter who. Get down in the dirt and play right. Besides, McCann is a nice suburban kid who learned to play hard, the way we used to prefer our catchers, and he can hit a little, and he’s 29, and he doesn’t take crap from anybody. What’s wrong with that?

  92. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    It was real in a sense that it happened but it wasn’t who he really was..
    ==============================
    i guess perception became reality.

  93. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    A real redneck doesn’t like to get shown up by anybody, no matter who. Get down in the dirt and play right. Besides, McCann is a nice suburban kid who learned to play hard, the way we used to prefer our catchers, and he can hit a little, and he’s 29, and he doesn’t take crap from anybody. What’s wrong with that?”

    Not a thing! Hey he might order somebody to back Papi’s butt off the plate

  94. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    It;s kind of early in the talks to presuure cano with a 2B signing like infante.
    he could take it wrong, get insulted and walk away.

  95. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Jeter is the captain but Posada was the field general out there and that’s been missing since he retired……I don’t think you can succeed with a collection of back ups behind the plate

  96. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    We need a team of rednecks like the redsox…
    Yank Dynasty!

  97. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Mick-

    Perhaps it is too early.

    Don’t know.

    What I do know is that if Cano doesn’t sign and Infante is off the board it will suck.

    ;)

  98. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    I think they keep Reynolds who can also backup at 1st.

  99. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    The Sux were the Smith Bros. not Rednecks.

    That’s an insult to Rednecks.

    :)

  100. mick November 30th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    sox were zz top.

  101. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Mick-

    You comparing ZZ to the Sux ?

    Really ?

    :)

  102. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    That’s like comparing Bronson Arroyo to Jerry Garcia.

    :)

  103. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    What the Yanks need is a hard-throwing Dominican pitcher to plunk Papi in the ribs, without being asked. That should satisfy randy.

  104. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    One thing about Joba.

    He was a good headhunter.

    ;)

  105. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Please excuse. Sorry.

    Mop #2 needs some exercise.

    I’ll be back.

  106. Migs November 30th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    The problem with Cano is that he’s 31.

    Instead of giving Cano 8 years, 200 kill, it makes more sense for the Yanks to give out shorter, smaller deals to Infante and Beltran. And then trade for Chase Headley. This sures up the offense with McCann, and with the exception of Beltran, really helps the defense.

    Ellsbury and Choo are better than beltran, but depends on the price. They will likely cost too much for too many years.

    Looking ahead to 2015, there are even less intriguing free agent options.

  107. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    “What the Yanks need is a hard-throwing Dominican pitcher to plunk Papi in the ribs, without being asked. That should satisfy randy.”

    hey talk to mariano, he had his chances and he never went after ortiz. i wonder why.
    maybe mariano respects ortiz as a player more than you do.

    maybe mariano thought he was good enough to get him out. that’s what i’m thinking.

  108. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    “A real redneck doesn’t like to get shown up by anybody, no matter who. Get down in the dirt and play right. Besides, McCann is a nice suburban kid who learned to play hard, the way we used to prefer our catchers, and he can hit a little, and he’s 29, and he doesn’t take crap from anybody. What’s wrong with that?”

    what’s wrong with it is he seems to go after latino players. he needs to go after a few fellow red necks to be an equal opportunity take no prisoners player.

    i don’t know who mccan is to be honest. i don’t like his act so far with opposing payers from what i’ve seen. to me he was just trying to be a bully in the incidents last summer. theres no leadership there.

  109. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    randy,
    What did you do when a hitter showed you or your pitcher up?

  110. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    “what’s wrong with it is he seems to go after latino players. he needs to go after a few fellow red necks to be an equal opportunity take no prisoners player.”

    I don’t think this is true at all….they went after Bryce Harper more than once this year for showing up a pitcher or whatever

  111. blake November 30th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    @Joelsherman1: Notes http://t.co/tKkLbtuGxz #Yankees faves for Beltran, but #Royals want badly. #Mets fall out of love with Furcal

  112. Migs November 30th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    So McCann is racist? To the point of picking on certain players? Doubtful.

    I’m glad the Yankees signed him, and I’m sure many here will be too once the season gets going.

  113. Tar November 30th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    to me he was just trying to be a bully in the incidents last summer. theres no leadership there.”

    If I’m not mistaken…. he was backing up his pitcher and 1b man who both started jawing at Gomez as he was rounding the bases. And really Gomez was out of line.

    I like what McCann did there, confronted a jerk and backed up his teammates.

  114. Tar November 30th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Speaking of redneck…I’m going to buy a new Stihl blower and I’m really excited about it.

    Oh how far i’ve fallen. :D

    Catch you all later.

  115. austinmac November 30th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    I agree with Dan that a Monday meeting between Cano’s agents and the Yankees suggests some hope for agreement.

  116. blake November 30th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Embrace it Tar you’re in the south now!

  117. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    The Padres have made a few runs at signing third baseman Chase Headley to a long-term contract to no avail, and now according to sources, San Diego is willing to listen to offers for the switch-hitter.

    The Yankees have inquired before, but neither side thinks they match up for Headley, who will be entering his walk year.

    He is not going to be easy to move for reasons beyond his proximity to free agency. The Padres will want to market him as the MVP candidate who hit 31 homers and drove in 115 runs in 2012, and suitors will be concerned about the 13 and 50 he generated last year. The general consensus is that he probably falls someplace in between as a player.

    ____________

    Seems like the Padres are asking too much.

  118. Tar November 30th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    “Embrace it Tar you’re in the south now!”

    I reckon you’re right. I’m going to skedaddle down to the co-op at buy that gosh darn blower.

    catch y’all later.

    :D

    Maybe I have Blake…although if you had heard my choice of words during the game today……..:mad:

  119. blake November 30th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Bama just rope a dopes teams for awhile to tire them out then they crush them

  120. blake November 30th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    I never get upset about unc football …..I’m numb to it by now

  121. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Bret-

    I’m hoping we do business w the Snakes real soon.

    We’ll get a better deal from them.

    ;)

  122. Ted Nelson November 30th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    “I have said this before that when it come to statistics in defense, one has to see a player do his stuff to understand how great he is. If you watch the replays, you can appreciate the instincts that Cano has at the crack of the bat in getting to the ball.”

    The things about statistics is that they capture consistency. Seeing a guy make one great play is not really a good way to predict how he plays over the course of a full season. I’m sure that I can find you some great defensive highlights of Eduardo Nunez. That doesn’t mean he’s a good defender. Highlights are generally the worst way to judge an athlete.

    It’s also very difficult to eye-ball range, where you have to consider positioning, the speed of the ball, and exactly how far from the guy the ball is hit. A dramatic diving play for one player might be a routine play for another guy with better range.

  123. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    MTU, please don’t bring up the S word as I might be inclined to have one of those dreams when I shoot straight out of bed checking every corner of the layout. Thanks, I know you care about me. And if me and the Prelude make it down your way, just pretend ( for my sake ), that such things don’t exist around your abode.

  124. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Sure Mills.

    No problem.

    ;)

  125. Tar November 30th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    It’s also very difficult to eye-ball range, where you have to consider positioning, the speed of the ball, and exactly how far from the guy the ball is hit.”

    I think you just explained why defensive statistics are so inaccurate.

    No way to back it up…. but I think the Yankees are in the back of the pack when it comes to defensive positioning. I have felt that way for years now.

  126. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Yankees remain the favorites to land Beltran.

    Royals interested in Hughes.

    MLBTR

  127. mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Beltran wants the Yankees.
    Yankees want Beltran.
    It’s going to happen..

  128. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    A problem I have with Beltran is that he’s likely to be part of a significant roster problem as the Yanks prepare for 2014. High risk injury players. Look at what’s possible and quite probable. Jeter-guaranteed DL trip. Arod-if he plays he’ll join Jeter at some point. McCann-quite likely. Tex–almost a certainty. Beltran–I’d bet yes. Gardner–just look at his history. The Yanks better have some nice back-ups or we’re looking at 2013 redux.

  129. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Here’s my statistically proven stat, Robbie Alomar can go get ‘em. I got 95 in U stats, padded my marks, and got to go where I thought I wanted to be at the time.

  130. mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    bigdan

    when it comes to backups, what team is prepared for that, in any sport?
    when the frontline goes down , like it did for us last year, that’s about it.
    it’s why i found those who thought we were ill prepared or poorly constructed were
    using that to fit their narrative.

  131. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    If we’re going to figure out defensive #’s, what is the standard deviation?, are the assertions relevant?, and upon what kind of field are things happening, and is the lighting sufficient?

  132. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Looks like the Yankees are very focused on Beltran.

    He isn’t getting what he’s looking for though.

    3/45 +

    Ain’t happening w the Yankees.

    I’d bump up the AAV and give him 2.

    Something like 2/34 or 2/36.

    Overpay but on a shorter term.

  133. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Kuroda will cost 15 +

  134. mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    2 with an option for beltran

  135. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Cano around 25.

  136. mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    if i had a choice between beltran and grandy , would take grandy.

  137. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Infante 10 +

    Grandy around 15.

    Choo and Ellsbury more.

    Decisions, decisions.

  138. mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    infante is not a 10m ballplayer.

  139. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Mick-

    A vesting option based on the number of games played the prior yr. ?

  140. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Mick-

    He’s gonna get that and then some in this crazy market.

    :(

  141. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    As someone pointed out.

    Look what Peralta got.

    :shock:

  142. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    mick November 30th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    “bigdan

    when it comes to backups, what team is prepared for that, in any sport?
    when the frontline goes down , like it did for us last year, that’s about it.
    it’s why i found those who thought we were ill prepared or poorly constructed were
    using that to fit their narrative.”

    You are missing the point. Any team can have bad luck and be devastated by injuries but the Yanks are ostensibly planning a lineup that contains a disproportionate amount of injury risk. Too many old and coming off injury players. A 30 year old catcher coming off a serious injury, a 34-year old 1b coming off a serious injury, a 40 year old SS on one leg, and now they want to add a 37 year old right fielder who shows signs of breaking down. The Yanks are banking an extreme amount of luck if they feel these guys stay healthy next season.

  143. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    McCann a fat and getting fatter by the second redneck who dislikes Hispanics.

    So much to learn here.

  144. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Anyone looking for Catching or Relievers should be coming to the Yankees.

    We’re Overstock.com

    :)

  145. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    The Yankees need to meet up w. Infielders-R-Us.

    ;)

  146. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    To be fair, I don’t know anything about, McCann, I’m stuck here trying to figure out how to get Ernie Whitt and Buck Martinez back into the fold.

  147. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    I remember when a young Brian Milner was supposed to be the next Johnny Bench here in Jay land circa 1978. They called this 18-19 year old kid up, he got a couple of hits right off the bat, we were all excited, but then the letdown, similiar to how that girl you like just doesn’t like you.

  148. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    Beltran is just a bad fit for the Yanks, almost at any price. He’s too old and will need DH time which should go to Jeter and McCann.

    This is the way they should play it in RF.

    Beltran: No

    Ellsbury: No (too expensive and injury prone)

    Choo: 5 years (option 6)

    Grandy: 3 years

    If none of that works, play Almonte. You can’t keep running 35+ year olds out there and claim bad luck when they get hurt.

  149. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    Dinner bell calls.

    Later.

    :)

  150. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Ute Lemper and her album, ” Espace indecent “, what could be finer? She also does this record of Berlin Cabaret Songs – out of this world!

  151. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    “Forget about the stats vs. scouts argument: The biggest dissonance in the game right now is between the showmanship of Latino players and the stoicism of the old guard. Some believe it is the fight for baseball’s soul. Some believe that allowing such behavior will irreparably damage the game. It’s a silly argument, of course, but it’s happening.

    A bat flip is not meant to ridicule a pitcher for having allowed a home run. The act is more of a celebration of an accomplishment. What is the harm in that? Furthermore, does the retaliatory action of throwing a baseball at someone really justify the perceived insult?

    “That baseball is a weapon,” Yankees manager Joe Girardi said this year, incensed that Boston Red Sox starter Ryan Dempster had plunked Alex Rodriguez. “It’s not a tennis ball where it’s soft. It’s a weapon and it can do a lot of damage to someone’s life and that’s why I was so upset by it. You can’t just start throwing baseballs at someone. It’s scary.”

    Gomez certainly didn’t have to be — and probably shouldn’t have been — so vengeful about his home run against the Braves, but can you really blame him? He had been thrown at previously by Maholm simply because he’d flipped his bat. At some point Gomez was going to reach a breaking point. And it never would have come to that if baseball simply modernized to reflect the attitudes of the almost 30 percent of players on its rosters who are foreign-born.

    It may be that the style of baseball that has been played for decades, and was developed during a mostly all-white era, has been long-lasting, but that doesn’t make it any better than another style of play. ”

    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/62352290/

  152. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    Based on reports in the Post, Cano is looking for 9/250-260. Yanks still at 7/170. Looks like there’s deal out there for 8 and a little over 200. If the couple really wants to get married, it should happen next week.

  153. Migs November 30th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Why do some want to pay Cano 25 mill over 8 or 9 seasons when we complain about how bad contracts such as Arod’s and Pujol’s are?

    Don’t go over 7, even that is quite a lot for a 31 year old.

  154. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    don’t care 8 years for Cano at 240 is way to much in years

  155. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    how is Ellsbury injury prone and not Gardner

  156. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    McCann will probably be a full time DH in 3 years or less

  157. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Randy

    Latino players who hotdog are treated no different then any of the other players in baseball.

    All players are held to same standards, players just don’t like to be shown up and it doesn’t make any difference who does it..

    The game is by and large color blind.

  158. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Dawgs!

  159. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:18 pm
    Dawgs!
    ———————————-
    had K-ST against Kan today huge

  160. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    You might have a better argument convincing people McCann has gained weight.

    Then trying to sell that link/column which was ripped in the comment section.

  161. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    what is Ala problem today ….

  162. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    just saying McCann just might be a bad sign

  163. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    OMFG!!! Auburn wins like that. I don’t believe it. Bama shoulda just kneeled on it.

  164. mick November 30th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    So Choo and Ellsbury are too expensive.
    Beltran and Kuroda too old.
    McCann too fat.
    Tanaka too far away.
    Cano too expensive.

    Seems like we are doomed…

  165. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Jeez, Auburn!
    What a football day!

  166. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:28 pm
    Jeez, Auburn!
    What a football day!
    ———————————
    and not over yet

  167. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Seminoles vs. Buckeyes here it comes !

  168. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    could ND beat Stamford

  169. mick November 30th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    So Choo and Ellsbury are too expensive.
    Beltran and Kuroda too old.
    McCann too fat.
    Tanaka too far away.
    Cano too expensive.

    Seems like we are doomed…
    =====================
    Calling Curtis Granderson, please report to the Bronx.

  170. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    if Stamford wins …isn’t it Stamford ..Ohio ST

  171. joeman November 30th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    My bad Stanford

  172. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    “Latino players who hotdog are treated no different then any of the other players in baseball.

    All players are held to same standards, players just don’t like to be shown up and it doesn’t make any difference who does it..

    The game is by and large color blind.”

    rhapsody in blue-

    i’ve been in clubhouses with latino players like cesar cedeno, omar moreno, jose cruz, Joaquín Andujar, and paul casanova.

    if you think baseball is color blind you’re ignorant .

    quite frankly you know so little you’re not worth my time.

  173. pkyankfan69 November 30th, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    That Alabama Auburn game was a tremendous game before that last play… Holy Crap! That is an ending you will be 50 years from now… Awesome!

  174. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    Damnest football I’ve ever seen, just unbelievable.

  175. blake November 30th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Crazy game

  176. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    I know a condescending ass when I see one.

  177. blake November 30th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Bamas FG team just wasn’t prepared for that…..rare mistake by Sabean

  178. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    Alex Rodriquez was thrown at because everyone in baseball hates his guts has nothing to with Latino.

    Because he’s a cheat and a liar.

    I could figure that much out.

  179. blake November 30th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    Randy,

    Times are at least a little different than they were when you played Id imagine…..not saying that racism doesn’t still exist in clubhouses but it’s pretty taboo in society these days and wouldn’t be tolerated.

  180. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Could you ever imagine with the 24/7 media coverage with all these mediots seeking recognition if there ever was a race issue how long it go on undetected?

    About 2 minutes.

  181. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Got them all right so far. Go, Gameco*cks!

  182. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    that was a great game.

    huge credit to auburn’s special teams, they set up a return for that FG and he took it right up behind his blockers.

    can’t remember seeing back to back football games that good in decades.

  183. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    im a missouri fan. auburn’s win killed what little chance mizzou had of going to the championship game.

    now they just gotta beat a&m and they go play auburn next week.

  184. JobaTipsHisCap November 30th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    Chris rules.

  185. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Ys Guy,
    OSU, Auburn, UGA. Never seen such a day. Unbelievable, until the last play of the game. That’s why they play!

  186. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    Add Villanova eting Kansas last night, it’s a dream weekend.

  187. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    So is the SEC out of the BCS Champ? Or could Auburn get SOS if Mizzu wins tonite and Auburn wins the SEC champ? OSU could still lose to MSU but I don’t see FSU losing to Duke.

  188. randy l. November 30th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    “Times are at least a little different than they were when you played Id imagine…..not saying that racism doesn’t still exist in clubhouses but it’s pretty taboo in society these days and wouldn’t be tolerated.”

    blake -

    the issue at hand is that mccann thinks he’s some kind of home run cop.
    if you read the article i posted it talks about the different approach to the game that exciting young latino players bring to the game.

    mccann takes exception to these players. to me that’s BS.

    the more i’m learning about mccann,i’m starting to wonder if cano and mccann could coexist on the same team.

    is he going to get on cano when he thinks cano isn’t playing the game right?

  189. sammiejohnson November 30th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    exiled

    I think it would be FSU-OSU unless one of them loses.

  190. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    There are 189 comments in this thread until now.

    I am 190.

    A toast.

  191. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    You don’t think Jorge got on Cano when he felt he wasn’t playing the game right?

    Did you have concerns then?

  192. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Now McCann is a fat redneck if he does the same.

  193. Ys Guy November 30th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    i think its osu and fla state unless someone gets upset.

    fla state has duke left, so no chance of them losing. osu has michigan state so there is some hope there.

    if either one loses, you can bet alabama, auburn or mizzou would step into the big game.

    but barring an upset the SEC is out of the game.

  194. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Blake is proof, rednecks are cool.

    I rest my case.

    McCann forever.

  195. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    Once somebody told my boss i was an Ahole. My boss told him, ” Well he maybe an ahole but he’s my ahole.” Let’s see what McCann looks like in pinstripes. Let’s see how he plays. I got to love Damon and I hated him with Bos.

    If McCann hits, he can be an ahole, hell be my ahole. I’ll love seein him in pinstripes.

  196. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    actually i have concerns about why i’m on a baseball blog with amateur idiots like you.
    =================
    uh…may be b/c you have no followers?

  197. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Rhapsody, I am not comparing Cano to Hornsby in his batting ability but throughout baseball history, second basemen were known more for their fielding abilities and not their power and BA. Hornsby was not known for being a great fielder, and as I consider Hornsby a super star because of his offensive abilities and would put him on a team as the greatest 2nd basemen of all time, I would consider Cano to be a super star because of the combination of hitting and fielding and put him behind Hornsby. Name me another 2nd basemen who could beat Cano out for fielding, power and BA other then Hornsby?
    ///

    Really tough to compare eras, but I’ll take the LH 2B who turns to double play over the righty who was doesn’t, every time (given the LH 2B’s power and ability to hit for avg. and hit both RH and LHP)

    Hornsby would hit in any era, but his ogle numbers occurred in the live ball era, as did his 1922 season. To boot, you did not have “specialists” parading out of the bullpen in those days, either.

    I’m going to take Cano or Morgan over Hornsby, and Cano is absolutely in the conversation for best ever. He’s had what – 8 “peak” seasons already?

    Hank, you and I agree: Robinson Cano is really, really good.

  198. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    randy I.

    You just don’t like to have your points belittled and debunked.

    You, the only person on the planet who suspects McCann to be a bigot with nothing to back it up.

    Who is the amateur? Take your ball and go home.

  199. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Who is the amateur? Take your ball and go home.
    =====================
    you forgot the :)

  200. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    3-2-1…here comes ???

  201. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    jap

    I never said Cano wasn’t a superstar, beside the point.

    The greatest 2nd baseman of all time is Hornsby, 2 MVPS, 7 batting titles, 2 triples crowns (only he and TW).

    Cano has never won a batting title closest he has come is 3rd. No MVPs. No triple crowns so you can say that Hornsby was much more of a dominant player of his era than Cano is now.

    And of course from a different era but from the same as Babe.

  202. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    robbie alomar put up some great #s

  203. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    jeff kent = future HOFer

  204. mick November 30th, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    ryne sandberg wasn’t bad

  205. blake November 30th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Randy,
    As I said earlier the braves did the same stuff to Bryce Harper…..it’s more a braves thing than a McCann thing and it’s file everyone not just Latino players

  206. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    You could argue Hornsby had a better bat then the Iron Horse.

  207. blake November 30th, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    “Bret The Hitman says:
    November 30, 2013 at 8:21 pm
    Blake is proof, rednecks are cool.

    I rest my case.

    McCann forever.”

    Why think you….we need some edge on this team no matter what flavor

  208. UpState November 30th, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    Jaret Wright never won a ML game after his time with the NYY.

    That’s some mystery.

  209. blake November 30th, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    Pretty shocking that Sabean didn’t have his guys prepared to cover that play……it worth worth the try on the FG but they gotta know it’s a live ball

  210. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    blake,
    Auburn was ready. A few nice blocks, TD! Called them all right so far, most by a hair, but what the hell! Go, Game co*ks!

  211. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    IDK about the call but that return was like watching Rino’s chasing three Cheeta’s.

  212. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    Go, Mizzou!

  213. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Good evening all.

    Awesome picture for this thread… looks like the ump is mimicking Stewie’s pose… pretty cool.

    Reading through the posts – pretty interesting.

    Off Topic – when I dropped off the boys this afternoon, their mom gave me a fairly large box she said she found that belonged to me. I opened it up to find a bunch of baseball cards that I had forgotten I ever owned. A ’53 Rizzuto, a ’54 Kaline among many, many others. I’ve been giddy every since. :)

  214. UpState November 30th, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Merry Christmas, CS !

  215. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    Certainly threw a wrench in the national title game picture

  216. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Tom,
    You’re not a fake Carolina fan are you?

  217. austinmac November 30th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    Chicken,

    Pretty exciting find. Mine are long gone.

  218. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Cano has never won a batting title closest he has come is 3rd. No MVPs. No triple crowns so you can say that Hornsby was much more of a dominant player of his era than Cano is now.
    ///

    Hornsby was not as durable as Cano, who virtually plays 162 games every season and he was not a good defender. Yeah, he’s got the highest all-time BA for a RHB and was a great offensive player, but I am going with the genius glove and great LHB. I’ll take Morgan over Hornsby as well; Morgan, who go stuck playing in a crummy park for hitters for so long.

    Interesting, too, that Hornsby couldn’t seem to not get himself traded, and after hitting .360 one year, like .380 another, and after leading his team to a WS as a manager/player!

    Guy obviously had some issues to get traded so often when player movement was so rare.

    For me, if you can get yourself a LH 2B, a LH SS, or a LH C, that’s quite an advantage.

    Cano is certainly in the discussion for greatest ever if he keeps putting up seasons like last year’s.

    And I agree with Hank: you cannot just act like the glove isn’t part of it. Cano makes plays that make me shake my head and say “genius at work.”

  219. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    blake,
    SC? No, I want the dawgs to beat them, but if they don’t, I’m an SEC fan, except Alabama. I’d like to see how many games Duke and UNC would win in this conference, but I suspect we’d get fat on it. There’s FSU and nobody else,

  220. Chad Jennings November 30th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Really, of all days, today — when I’m with my family trying to watch the Mizzou game — is the day I’m going to have to start banning people from the blog because civility is lost? Come on. Learn how to disagree without turning this place into second grade.

  221. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Upstate/Austinmac- I used to collect cards when I was a kid… I thought the cards of older players (when I say older, I mean vintage 50′s and 60′s) were so cool and I traded for them at every opportunity. By the time I graduated high school, I had a pretty decent collection. I became disenchanted with collecting because it became such a huge business – speculation about value only; so few that collected seemed to be true baseball fans

    I sold the majority of the collection to finance college and had forgotten that these existed. They aren’t necessarily all high dollar cards, but were of players that I liked for one reason or another (Carl Erskine, Del Crandall, Don Newcombe, et al). I’m thinking about starting to selectively collect again :)

  222. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    jap

    After you and I are long gone years from now the numbers as they do today will stand out and dictate to future generations who was the greatest 2nd baseman.

    The numbers aren’t even close, you could argue Hornsby had a better bat then Lou Gehrig.

    Hornsby hit over .400 three times, lifetime BA .358. still the highest right hander in the NL. He hit over .370 seven times.

    I had a post earlier today from the Hornsby site actually addressing some his poor fielding myths it’s still there.

    I like Robbie and want him resigned but please stop comparing him to Hornsby.

  223. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    What’s Chad talking about?

  224. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    Great discovery Glenn.

    Happy for ya’.

    :)

  225. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    randy,

    I missed the whole discussion but read your link. Good piece. Arangure has written those “sociological” type pieces before, and they do need to be written and read. Of course, if you’re not in the sub-group, you’ll swear there is no division or discrimination, because it doesn’t affect you or your group, therefore it must not exist.

    This stuff has been going on forever and part of the problem, I think, is not enough representation in the covering media that reflects the heterogeneous composition of the players.

    The ethos of that group dominates how baseball is viewed and talked about, from columnists to talk radio guys.

    We need more latino writers and spanish speaking reporters; analysts in the booth.

    The game’s composition has changed but there’s been no shift in who holds the narrative power when it comes to the game, its language concepts, and what is culturally permitted.

  226. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    blake,
    SC? No, I want the dawgs to beat them, but if they don’t, I’m an SEC fan, except Alabama. I’d like to see how many games Duke and UNC would win in this conference, but I suspect we’d get fat on it. There’s FSU and nobody else,

    In football? Not many….might could beat Kentucky or Tennessee but that’s bout it

  227. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    I still think Alabama is the best team…..losing like that on the road to the #4 team is hardly a bad loss. Be interesting to see how this all plays out…..can’t wait til the playoff goes in to effect

  228. pkyankfan69 November 30th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
    What’s Chad talking about?
    —————
    I scrolled back a bit expecting some juicy fighting but didn’t see anything. Disappointing!

  229. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    …and I never thought Tony Pena had a chance at the manager’s job.

  230. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    I guess it’s my fault, my apologies to Chad and everyone else.

  231. tomingeorgia November 30th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    blake,
    I love “might could”. and know exactly what you mean.

  232. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    @mlbtraderumors: Cano Asking Yankees For Nine-Year, $250-$260MM Deal http://t.co/k5FePD6gUv #mlb

  233. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Tom,
    You have to put “might could” in front of most teams when you’re talkin about Carolina feet ball

  234. blake November 30th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    9/250 would be a 27ish AAV. Nope …..

  235. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Blake-

    Not happening.

    They are moving the right direction though.

    9 yrs. is too long also.

  236. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Back in the seventies I was foot hockey champion, don’t get in my way :)

  237. UpState November 30th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Even ‘crappy-player’ old baseball cards are great to have !

  238. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Hornsby’s numbers will also always be attached to the live ball era, so they will always have to be considered somewhat inflated.

    Cano murders RHP and is a 2B in deed as well as in name. He’s the best in baseball right now, and if he keeps the numbers where they are going forward, Mine and Hank’s won’t be the only voices to throw around “greatest ever.”

    He has the potential to be that.

    Stay tuned.

  239. UpState November 30th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    …going down the A-Rod path…

    Alex was originally ‘hated’ because of his Texas contract.

    …NOT ped’s

    …NOT his NYY uniform

  240. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    Signing FA from other teams is exciting… you start thinking about how much better your team is going to be because of the new player.

    Signing your own FA is a downer… When/if Cano is signed, I’ll be relieved instead of excited. Then I’ll be depressed because of how much money was spent to maintain, not improve.

  241. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    UpState, I have 2 rookie Wayne Gretzkys :)

  242. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    jap.

    There are GMs in today’s game who would prefer to have Pedroia’s game over Cano’s.

    Both will eventually get to Cooperstown, neither will ever replace Hornsby as being rated the greatest ever the numbers aren’t even close..

  243. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    Fred,

    I guess you made it home in one piece :)

    I have no doubt that Cano will be re-signed, and I have to say, I’ll be excited if we actually can put a worthy team around him, and excited to watch his career play out in pinstripes.

  244. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    mills,

    I have a rookie Gretzky as well, and a rookie Lemieux.

  245. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    ” Hands moving…”

    Sylvia Plath, my favourite American!

    ” With stitched bald head “

  246. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    jap

    As I asked Hank this afternoon let me know when Cano wins just one batting crown, Hornsby had 7, one MVP, Hornsby had two, one triple crown, Hornsby one of only two players to win two the other is Ted Williams.

    Cano like Pedroia is great in this generation.

  247. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    jap.

    There are GMs in today’s game who would prefer to have Pedroia’s game over Cano’s.
    ///

    See Randy’s link ;)

  248. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    No thanks.

  249. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Problem is, Hornsby was in a segregated era.

  250. UpState November 30th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Hope those rookie cards are in whatever plastic protective cases you have !

    …cause if you don’t ….it’s inevitable that they’ll get coffee or “chicken wing” sauce on them !

  251. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Mills

    So was the Babe.

  252. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Cano could go down as the greatest all-around 2B who has ever lived, when you consider: left-handed power bat, hits for average, GG defense, arm, durability.

    The one thing he doesn’t have that Morgan did was he can’t run.

  253. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    ” Indigo nimbus “, one has to admit, Sylvia Plath is, great!

  254. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Hi JAP.

    Home safe, thanks.

    I guess I’ll have to 2nd your reasons for excitedness if he re-signs (I’m still not convinced its a foregone conclusion, though)

  255. austinmac November 30th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Chicken,

    I ate pounds of gum and never got Mantle. My mother disposed of my cards somewhere along the way. I have forgiven her. :)

  256. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Has he won a triple crown?

  257. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Pedroia has at least won an MVP, ROY.

  258. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Chicken, my friend, glad to see you.

  259. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    You can’t resolve some things, and one is that these players appeared in different eras.

    Ruth hit 29 HR in 1919. That had never been done before and that was before the LBE kicked in in 1920.

  260. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    I have rookies Mark Messier and that lead off guy, Rickie Henderson.

  261. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Hello jmills! Hope all is well in the Great White North

  262. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    Has Robbie ever won a triple crown?

    You cannot compare Robbie with someone who has hit over .400 three times and won two triples crowns.

    Doesn’t compute. Cano has a lifetime .308 BA average for 9 seasons Hornsby’s is 50 points higher for 25 seasons!

  263. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    BTW, I should have mentioned this before now. I have several folks on here that I occasionally exchange emails with… If anyone has sent me an email since Thanksgiving day, I’m sorry but I have not been able to receive them. Looks like Monday at the earliest to remedy.

  264. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    Fred,

    Glad you made it.

    No, it’s not a foregone conclusion, but I would be fairly stunned if it didn’t get done. They really have no choice; he’s all we got :)

  265. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Chicken, all is well here, I love Pruf and am in the process of telling how Naomi Watts doesn’t prefer the Leafs, yet, does so all the time. :D

  266. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Correction 22 seasons life time BA .358. Cano 9 seasons BA .308

  267. NYY fan in NH November 30th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    How can Cano expect to get 9 years for $260 million. No way in hell he gets that. He’s not even a superstar. He is at his position, but he’s no Cabrera or Trout. Stick to your guns Yankees.

  268. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Have you looked at Hornsby’s numbers before 1920? Still a great hitter, but there’s a big difference.

    He also said some fairly stupid things about Mantle and Maris.

  269. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    “You can’t resolve some things, and one is that these players appeared in different eras.”

    +1

    ;)

  270. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    Forget about, Hornsby, me and Alomar are getting out of here!

  271. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    mills, thanks for the love :)

    do you realize we outshot you guys 17-0 in the third period? How’d that happen?? I’ve been watching hockey for about 47 years, and I had never seen that. We still needed OT to seal the deal, though :)

  272. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    If you had read the article I posted earlier today about Hornby’s earlier years before 1920 (which were Cano like) you would understand why.

    Keep in mind when you were injured during that period 1920-30 they didn’t have access to same medical advances that they do today.

  273. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    MTU,

    How’s the pup?

  274. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    I don’t care about the stupid things Hornsby supposedly said about Mantle and Maris.

    After all Cano has JayZ as an agent.

  275. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Alfred, don’t underestimate my Leafs :D

  276. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    JAP-

    Slow, steady, improvement.

    Thank you for asking.

  277. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    MTU, remember, ” easy does it “.

  278. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    As for the greatest 2nd baseman argument, I have no squabble. As a smart alec, I started to post Mickey Morandini as my choice… after looking up his stats, he’s much better than I remember… I absolutely love baseball reference.

  279. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    jap

    Who do you think will drop off more in the next nine Pedroia or Cano?

  280. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    Little Dusty can’t seem to match Cano, and he has all the advantage of advanced medicine.

    Must be Cano’s DNA.

    Hornsby had like five of 14 years where he played complete seasons.

    Playing nearly every game for eight years is remarkable. Part of the multi-faceted package that is Robinson Jose Mercedes Cano. :)

  281. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Pedroia and his max effort will max out while the luxury sedan is still in cruise control :)

  282. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Robbie Alomar is the greatest 2nd B-man.

  283. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Mills-

    Stitches come out in about a week.

    Not too much before then.

    He’s a wonderful little dog.

    Hasn’t changed one bit despite all he’s been through. Totally stoic.

    His brother is equally amazing w his own unique personality.

  284. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    BS.

    http://www.baseball-reference......ro01.shtml

  285. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Joe Morgan, formidable too!

  286. blake November 30th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Paul walker died?

  287. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Why don’t you guys all just stipulate that Cano is one great 2b and hope that he can stay a Yankee.

    Tomorrow is a hike day.

    I have tried once again to be the peacemaker.

    It’s time to dream.

    :)

  288. austinmac November 30th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Hornsby led the league in OPS+ 12 times. I would say the man could hit.

  289. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    MTU, great to hear things are above board with your pal!

  290. Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Rhapsody, your summary of Hornsby’s fielding is what makes this blog so informative.When I was growing up, Hornsby was the stardard for 2nd basemen based on his offensive ability, and the likes of Mel Allen never raved about “The Rajah’s” defense. Of all of the HOF second basemen that I have seen starting with Charley Gehringer in the late1930′s, Cano is the best in fielding and hitting for both average and power up to this point in his career.
    I welcome any one to correct me on Cano just like Rhapsody did on Hornsby’s fielding prowess which escaped me during the era of “Radio Days.”

  291. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Rogers Hornsby, Alomar does do, contest.

  292. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    I didn’t read the article but Hornsby was not accounted a good defender from what I’ve read over the years.

    I didn’t see him play, so I can’t attest to his glove, or lack of it, only can go by what I have read/heard.

    Cano, Morgan, Alomar, I’ve seen those guys. They are elite defenders.

  293. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    I have tried once again to be the peacemaker.

    ——————-

    and the Peacemaker (MX missile) was nothing to be taken lightly :)

    ‘night MTU

  294. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    MTU,

    Glad to hear it.

  295. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Alfred, count me amongst the luckey,…I saw Alomar!

  296. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Hank

    Of course Hornsby was over in the NL so he would have not seen too many times during the season by Mel Allen.

    Unless it was during the 1926 World Series when player manager Hornsby led the Cards over the Yankees in 7 games.

  297. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    Thanks guys.

    I’ll see you tomorrow.

  298. luis November 30th, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    Good evening guys,

    I just want to add my voice on Cano….Pedroia is nowhere near the level of Cano…While I can’t argue about Hornsby prowes, I must say that Cano is right up there when you add his almost flawless defense…Still the jury is out, I think he still needs to put up some more seasons like last year…But I think he will…I think he already is the best Yankee 2b ever

  299. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    I posted this earlier today.

    Some fielding info on Hornsby from the Hornsby site:

    First, consider the fact that Hornsby at various times played three important defensive positions and played them very well.

    He played third base in 1916 and in at least one prominent annual survey was selected as the tops at his position in all of baseball.

    In 1917 he played shortstop all season, and was outstanding. He lead the league in double plays and was 21 fielding runs above average. His fielding numbers that year were better than many of the renowned fielding shortstops such as Rabbit Maranville, etc.

    In 1918 he again played shortstop and was again outstanding. He had the highest assist per inning total of any shortstop in the National League. On the Rogers Hornsby thread there have been posted glowing comments about his fielding at shortstop that season from sportswriters, one who went so far as to describe him as perhaps the best fielding shortstop in the National League. The Baseball Encyclopedia finds that he had the best range of any shortstop in the National League that season.

    In 1919 Hornsby had a Honus Wagner like defensive season where he played numerous positions.

    1920 was Hornsby’s first year as a full time second baseman. He lead the league in putouts, assists, and double plays. His assist per inning average was the highest in the league and the Baseball Encyclopedia finds that he had the best range of any second baseman in the league that season.

    In 1921 Hornsby second year as a second baseman was second in the league in putouts, assists and double plays.

    In 1922 Hornsby, in his third year as a second baseman, was first in the league in putouts, double plays and fielding percentage and second in the league in assists. I think his leading in fielding percentage that year is perhaps his most notable fielding accomplishment that season given the fact that he played in every single game on the schedule.

    In 1923 he suffered a torn left knee which caused him to miss 47 games, and which also affected his mobility during the period he attempted to play with the injury.

    In 1924 he was second in the league in double plays. In 1925 he was again second in the league in double plays, only one behind the leader, though his per game average was higher.

    In 1926 was Hornsby’s injury plagued season, where he suffered a serious back injury in May, and then later suffered a bacterial infection which caused him to be hospitalized for a while and to become severely weakened. He played the rest of the season with these ailments and both his offensive and defensive numbers suffered greatly. A large component of the defensive stats used to attack Hornsby’s defensive record are from his under performance during this season. It has also been discussed in detail on the Hornsby thread that during the seasons Hornsby was a player manager his putout numbers were depressed likely due to the fact that Hornsby worked out arrangements with his teammates for them to cover optional pop flies which Hornsby had never liked to deal with because of his vertigo problem. (A fair division of labor since Hornsby as manager had to closely watch and handle his pitchers). I suspect that those systems which use putout totals as one of the ingredients to judge an infielders range will give a misimpression of Hornsby’s actual range.

    In 1927 Hornsby was healthy again and was simply a player again (except for 33 games as interim manager during McGraw’s illness) and he posted outstanding fielding totals. His assist per game total in 1927 was the third best in the history of baseball.

    In 1928 Hornsby was back to being a player manager and his totals went down again, as once again he arranged for teammates to cover the pop flies.

    In 1929 Hornsby was just a player again, and his numbers shot back up. He led the league in assists and double plays. He was second in fielding percentage only one percentage point behind the league leader and it should be noted he played 49 games more that the league leader in fielding percentage so as a practical matter he was really the best in the league in that department as well.

    He developed his serious heel spur problem at the end of th 1929 season and had to have the operation on his foot in the off season, and then broke his ankle early in the 1930 season. I don’t think he ever fully recovered his range or mobility following these later career injuries.

    It should also be noted that Hornsby for his career has the 7th highest assist per game average (3.31 assists per game) of any second baseman in the history of baseball. If you factor out the games he played with injuries and those in his late career when he had the heel spur problem, he would probably be close to being the best in history.

    You should also read the many glowing tributes to Hornsby’s fielding ability from his contemporaries such as George Sisler, Hugh Jennings, etc. In addition to his great range as reflected in his assist totals, he was also considered the best in baseball at turning the double play. George Sisler said his throw was the best of any second baseman he ever saw.

    The same outstanding skills which made Hornsby a phenomenal hitter such as great reflexes, quickness and speed, were obviously carried with him when he played in the field as well.

  300. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    RIB – one thing I noticed when I clicked on the Hornsby link you provided was the following statement:

    No induction ceremony in Cooperstown held (until 2013).

    I looked up several players of his era and noticed the same statement for Gehrig. A fairly long period passed until someone noticed that these players needed to be recognized!

  301. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    Hey primo :)

    He’s put up eight outstanding years, one nearly identical to the one before that.

  302. luis November 30th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Good night MTU….I hope your pup will do better from here on out

  303. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    rtsp://r7—sn-p5qlsu7k.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQkXV8me-RnszhMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Haha,…I think :)

  304. RhapsodyInBlue November 30th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    Chicken,

    I didn’t notice that. But it did read inducted into the hall in 1942 but no ceremonies until 2013?

    Strange.

  305. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    Good evening Luis. Que pasa? Unfortunately, after 4 years of Spanish in high school its one of the few phrases I remember (the others being – “cerveza, por favor” and “donde esta el bano”) :)

  306. luis November 30th, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    I know Primo….But last season was a thing of beauty…His OBP 383 ( career high ) tells you he is becoming more selective, which will help him as he ages…Also he is hitting lefties again…If he has 3 more seasons like the one he just had, I don’t think how anyone will be able to argue he is not at least one of the top 3 in the position ever

  307. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    primo,

    I would rank Morgan first overall, but Robi keeps it up, he will be discussed in those terms when all is said and done.

  308. Yes You McCann November 30th, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    Paul Walker died. RIP

  309. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    This is more along the lines of what I’ve always read/heard re Hornsby’s glove:

    “Rogers Hornsby was the greatest hitter ever to spend the bulk of his career at second base, but he was, by all accounts, a brutal fielder, and spent just 12 of his 16 seasons as a major league regular at the position. The greatest fielding second baseman of all time is widely believed to have been Hall of Famer Bill Mazeroski, an eight-time Gold Glove winner who was a below-average hitter but is ironically best remembered for his World Series-winning home run in 1960. Robinson was the most important player ever to spend the bulk of his career at second base, but that was his primary position for just five of his 10 major league seasons.

    The greatest second baseman of all time was either Eddie Collins or Joe Morgan. Collins, a deadball-era superstar for the Philadelphia Athletics and Chicago White Sox, hit .334/.424/.430 with 3,217 hits and 734 stolen bases in his 19 seasons as a starter at the position, won the American League MVP in 1914, played on six pennant-winners, and was a four-time world champion. By the numbers, he was clearly the best second baseman in the game’s history, but given the wildly disparate eras in which the two men played, there’s room to argue for Morgan, who hit .272/.393/.428 with 688 steals in his 20 seasons as a starter at the position, won five Gold Gloves, and was the National League MVP in 1975 and ’76, when his Cincinnati Reds won the World Series.

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z2mBwEGEOq

  310. luis November 30th, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    Todo bien Chicken!!

    You have enough Spanish to at least quench your thirst and how to release yourself after a few ;)

  311. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Alfred, force me to impress this point, Nicole Kidman – Grace Kelly.

    Alomar is, Primo!

  312. Hankflorida November 30th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Rhapsody, you are right as Mel Allen did not see much of Hornsby to talk about his fielding, but some of the National League announcers like Red Barber and Russ Hodges would announce that their standard for fielding was a guy named Emil Verban know as “The Antalope,” and they only mentioned Hornsby greatness was when he had a bat in his hands. Most announcers today talk about Cano’s defense in glowing terms.

  313. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    JAP -I had never been a tremendous Morgan fan (his glory days were in my youth) but I looked up his stats after your last post. His slash line between ’73 and ’76:

    73 – .290 .406 .493 .899
    74 – .293 .427 .494 .921
    75 – .327 .466 .508 .974
    76 – .320 .444 .576 1.020

    Pretty impressive

  314. AAA November 30th, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    Old friend Phil Hughes has found a home in Minnesota. 3 yrs/$24M

  315. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    Maybe I’m seling myself short… todo bien is crystal clear! :D

  316. MTU November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    This came to me in a dream :

    “The Twins have agreed to a three-year, $24MM deal with Phil Hughes, LaVelle E. Neal III of the Star Tribune reports, citing an anonymous source.”

    MLBTR

    Now I really do have to get some shuteye.

    ;)

  317. yankeefeminista November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    MLB Trade Rumors ?@mlbtraderumors 2m
    Twins To Sign Phil Hughes http://dlvr.it/4QW5rC #mlb
    Expand

  318. blake November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    The Twins are expected to announce the signing of free-agent righthander Phil Hughes to a three-year, $24 million deal this week, according to a person with knowledge of negotiations.

    @StribSports: Free-agent righthander Phil Hughes next up to join the Twins http://t.co/76CJvxhCbn

  319. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    Fred,

    And Morgan’s lifetime numbers were held down because he spent his first seven years with the Astros in a bad ballpark with no protection.

    That 1976 season was just insane.

  320. blake November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    Good for Phil…..I think that might be a bargain for the twinkles

  321. Yes You McCann November 30th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    3 years, $24 million. Money poorly spent. Good riddance, Hughes.

  322. blake November 30th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Now the question is should the yanks have made him a QO? Probably not…..but his market may have been strong enough that somebody would have signed him

  323. Yes You McCann November 30th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Protection is a myth.

  324. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    yankeefeminista November 30th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    MLB Trade Rumors ?@mlbtraderumors 2m
    Twins To Sign Phil Hughes http://dlvr.it/4QW5rC #mlb
    Expand

    ///

    :( Best of luck, Phil.

  325. AAA November 30th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Morgan in 1975-76 is the high water mark for 2B play in the modern era (I consider Hornsby something other than a modern era player). He was the best player on the best team I’ve ever seen.

  326. luis November 30th, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    AAA,

    Well…I had the chance to see them as well…But I think the Yankees of 1998 were as good if not better

  327. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    rtsp://r2—sn-p5qlsu7d.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQmu8PV8Sa90ARMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Red Barchetta.

  328. J. Alfred Prufrock November 30th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    AAA,

    He also was one of the best base runners and stealers of his era.

  329. luis November 30th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    Good luck Phil…That park may play well for him… I am somewhat surprised though

  330. AAA November 30th, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Luis:

    1998 Yankees are in the conversation, but with expansion and such, it was an easier time to win.

    Mid 70′s Reds were ridiculous. They were so far ahead of the rest of baseball offensively and they did everything else well above average.

  331. sammiejohnson November 30th, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    I am a little surprised by Hughes 3/$24M. I thought he might get something like a 2/$12M or 2/$14M. It’s a crazy market this winter. Minnesota seems to be paying good money to mid tier SP this year. And they need them.

  332. AAA November 30th, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    Good for Phil…..I think that might be a bargain for the twinkles

    =======================

    That park does depress power, left handed power in particular. It could work out OK for him there.

  333. chicken_stanley November 30th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    The Thanksgiving break has been great but headed out to the salt mines tomorrow morning.

    Good night all.

  334. luis November 30th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    No argument there AAA…The Big Red Machine was an amazing team to watch…

  335. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    rtsp://r4—sn-p5qlsu7e.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQnffsWDAG4-WRMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Keith

  336. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    phil doesn’t get that if th Qo is there. Who woulda given up that and the draft pick?

  337. blake November 30th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    I think it’s a good deal for the Twins…..a little risk there but the upside is bigger than the risk IMO

  338. jmills November 30th, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    rtsp://r3—sn-p5qlsu7d.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQnyDFHXNJYTYRMYJCAkFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

  339. sammiejohnson November 30th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    As many have said, that is a really good park for Hughes to be going to. Might work out for both sides. Phil’s agent did a good job. And Minnesota may have found some pitching that they badly need and did not give up players/prospects to get it, only cash.

  340. Yes You McCann November 30th, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    AAA, are you a previous poster named stuckey?

  341. AAA November 30th, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    YYM:

    No sir, I am not.

  342. luis November 30th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    Good night all

  343. blake November 30th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    Sucks about Paul Walker….thought it was a hoax but apparently he really ironically died in a car crash.

  344. exiledintampa November 30th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    I don’t think Mizzou or Auburn were even ranked at the start of the season. Now they’re goin to the SEC championship.

  345. bigdan22 November 30th, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    Gosh a bad team just paid a bad pitcher $24MM. I guess that’s why they are a bad team. Like I said yesterday, Phil is the beneficiary of not being in the NFL where you have to earn your paycheck or get sent home.

    The Big Red Machine was pretty awesome to watch. I spent two freezing nights in the Bronx watching them manhandle the Yanks in 1976. Of course nobody told Munson how good they were.

    More of an offensive machine than a pitching machine though. Their pitching was really not much above average at the time, if that. The 90s Yankees team were more balanced.

  346. Yes You McCann November 30th, 2013 at 11:45 pm

    Thought it was a hoax too. But the mediabuzz site is a hoax site, with the same page, quotes, info for every actor.

  347. Ys Guy December 1st, 2013 at 12:06 am

    hey guys, just finished watching the mizzou game! big win there!

    congrats chad!

  348. Mordot11 December 1st, 2013 at 12:29 am

    Good for Hughes. He was obviously a terrible fit in NY, but I think he worked hard and just wasn’t very good.

  349. Hankflorida December 1st, 2013 at 12:30 am

    At my age, you can watch paint dry so I am watching the Australian Golf Open and rooting for Adam Scott to lose because his caddy is Steve Williams who dissed his former boss, Tiger Woods, and that is why I am for McClory to win. Wish Hughes the best unless he is pitching against The Bronx Bombers who can bomb his high fastball at the Stadium.

  350. Hankflorida December 1st, 2013 at 12:42 am

    McClory beat Scott, Giants and Jets win tomorrow, and then next week, it’s three rounds of golf. It’s a tough life here in the Sunshine State for a senior waiting for Spring training to begin with Cano playing in pinstripes.

  351. RhapsodyInBlue December 1st, 2013 at 12:50 am

    Morgan, Collins, Cano=0 triple crowns

    Rogers Hornsby=2

  352. RhapsodyInBlue December 1st, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Joe Morgan life time .271 BA the best ever?

    jap whatever you’re smoking please share.

  353. RhapsodyInBlue December 1st, 2013 at 12:59 am

    jap

    Hornsby no. 1, Cano no.19. Has a way to go.

    http://www.baseball-reference......s_2B.shtml

  354. Tar December 1st, 2013 at 1:14 am

    “After all Cano has JayZ as an agent.”

    I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean? And technically speaking Jay Z is not Robbie’s agent, Brodie Van Wagenen is doing all the negotiating anyway.

  355. Ted Nelson December 1st, 2013 at 1:17 am

    “No way to back it up…. but I think the Yankees are in the back of the pack when it comes to defensive positioning. I have felt that way for years now.”

    Probably because they are the team you root for, so you agonize over every ball they don’t reach. That’s just human nature. I mean I have no idea where the Yankees are in terms of positioning, but it’s unlikely they are actually at the back of the pack. Guys like Jeter and Cano have zero range despite playing up the middle and still manage to look pretty good. They employ a 14 person statistics department, so I would guess they’re pretty knowledgable on spray charts and such.

    This is really one big reason why you need objective stats to measure things: because subjectivity makes things really messy. Fans let their emotions get in the way and scouts let their preconceptions get in the way (a player with a high butt is better, for example).

    (The other big reason being too much going on for too many plays throughout the season… the whole can’t tell the different between a .200 hitter and .300 hitter from just watching the games thing.)

  356. yankinvegas December 1st, 2013 at 1:23 am

    It just shows the ridiculous price of starting pitching that Phil Hughes who was absolutely terrible this season can get 24 million dollars.
    So the Minnesota Twins, a small market team who has complained about payroll disparity forever, this week shelled out 73 MILLION dollars to Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes. Amazing.
    I don’t want to read any writer ever again complain about the Yankees’ payroll.

  357. Tar December 1st, 2013 at 1:26 am

    “Probably because they are the team you root for, so you agonize over every ball they don’t reach.”

    Well because they are the team I root of, I do get to see them the most. Far too often I have noted excellent positioning for opponents and poor positioning for the Yankees. Of course it’s not absolute, but I have definitely noticed it and have posted about during games.

    ” because subjectivity makes things really messy.”

    The problem I have with defensive stats is because of just that, it is subjective. Some anonymous person is watching the ball in play and determining a lot of things by using his eyes.

    Cano and Pedroia are two great examples. UZR loves Pedey and hates Cano.

    I have watched them both play and I totally disagree with that assessment. DO you?

  358. Ted Nelson December 1st, 2013 at 1:36 am

    I am not sure why so many fans are surprised by Hughes and Peralta’s contracts or think that they are signs of inflation.

    Peralta is a 3 win SS. 4th best SS in baseball the past three seasons by fWAR despite missing 50 games or whatever it was for the PEDs suspension. He’ll probably fall off a bit by the end of the deal, but they’re still probably only paying $5-6 mill per WAR… which has been the market rate for years and years now.

    Hughes has averaged 1.7 fWAR as a SP and is still young. He’s projected for about 2 fWAR over a full season in 2014. He’s a mid-to-back-end SP. Almost ten years ago now the market price for a back-end starter with a career ERA that had to be around 5, Jaret Wright, wasn’t much lower than what Hughes got.

    (Also, can people please stop calling Cano an elite defender? He’s mediocre at best. Yes, he does;t make errors and looks effortless turning the DP… he’s got brutal range, though. On his career he’s been a below average defender at 2B.)

  359. roxy1 December 1st, 2013 at 1:42 am

    “So the Minnesota Twins, a small market team who has complained about payroll disparity forever, this week shelled out 73 MILLION dollars to Ricky Nolasco and Phil Hughes. Amazing.
    I don’t want to read any writer ever again complain about the Yankees’ payroll.”

    That’s pretty silly to say when the Yankees are probably going to drop that much just on a posting fee! Should the Twins just never sign anybody?

    If the Yankees pay a posting fee and a contract for Tanaka, plus CC’s twenty something million and another $15M for Kuroda…they will spend that much in ONE season.

  360. Ted Nelson December 1st, 2013 at 1:52 am

    “It just shows the ridiculous price of starting pitching that Phil Hughes who was absolutely terrible this season can get 24 million dollars.”

    Luckily they aren’t paying him for last season. Hughes has been really volatile, but his contract is totally in-line with this production the last 4 seasons as a SP.

    “Far too often I have noted excellent positioning for opponents and poor positioning for the Yankees. Of course it’s not absolute, but I have definitely noticed it and have posted about during games.”

    Again, in all likelihood this is because you notice the plays that hurt the Yankees more than those that help them. Human nature is such that a loss stings 2-5 times stronger than a gain feels good. It is just likely that as an emotionally attached Yankees fan you are more aware of the defensive plays that they blow and the offensive plays where they hit the ball right at someone. Those plays are going to sting and stick in your memory.

    What’s your argument or evidence that they are poorly positioned? If you have something solid to back it up I might get behind you, but it comes across as bias.

    “Some anonymous person is watching the ball in play and determining a lot of things by using his eyes.”

    Again, those people (it’s not one person… you’re getting the cumulative stats off many people) are recording things for a whole season. You are watching one play at a time and remembering in an imperfect way what happened. You’re noticing how they look from play to play from an extremely emotionally biased place. Cano looks really smooth turning a DP that 99% of 2B would have turned, but Pedroia looks like a total spaz getting to a ball that very few 2B would actually get to… so Cano looks like the better defender. Have you ever heard the expression about being able to watch a team for a whole season and not know who is the .200 hitter and who is the .300 hitter without recording it? The difference between the two is, of course, only one hit every 10 ABs. Throw in walk, power, baserunning, etc. and it’s really hard to judge. There are probably even more moving parts defensively.

    I don’t think my subjective opinion matters at all, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Pedroia’s range is far superior to Cano’s. Cano has poor range. Range is really important, especially for a middle IF. Pedroia has very strong range. In my opinion, he routinely gets to balls that Cano would just watch and not even really bother to go for because he’d have no chance.

  361. Hankflorida December 1st, 2013 at 1:53 am

    Rhapsody, again, I appreciate your summary of Hornsby’s defense ability, but the sport announcers who I listened to on the radio in the 1930′s
    And 40′s never mentioned him as a great defensive player, and we are talking about people who saw him play in his prime. Hornsby was always considered in terms of offense. Maybe they looked at him as having limited range when compared to the 2nd basemen in his era who were basically single hitters with speed on the bases and could cover more ground. I could buy your argument based on the stats that you gave us that he was kept at 2nd base even though he had outfielder’s numbers because he was a superior fielder, but those who covered the game never talked about great hitters fielding ability like they spoke or wrote about DiMaggio or even Cano. Why???

  362. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Phil Hughes is a rich man, for what????!

    As far as greatest second b-men, hard to measure Rogers Hornsby’s #’s when one considered he played in the great slanted era of segregation, worse than any present drug experience. Alomar is my #4 guy ( no Orr pun intended ).

  363. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:04 am

    ” When one considers “

  364. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:07 am

    Segregation is a big reason why I cast a shadow upon Ruth’s figures, they just falter in my books. Hank Aaron is my guy, never hit 50 , but boy was he consistant for 40 plus.

  365. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:12 am

    I see someone mentioned positioning as one of the reasons Phil Hughes didn’t do well for the Yankees….hmmm….maybe we should have put some outfielders in the bleachers…………

  366. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:13 am

    Long time Jays announcer Jerry Howarth says that Robbie Alomar is the second most gifted player next to Mays that he has ever witnessed, so the best ever at second is a moot point.

  367. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:15 am

    GregD! Hope all is swell your way :D

  368. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:17 am

    Hi Jmills……yes all is well, my son is going back to school today after a lovely holiday week………need to put up a Christmas tree today…….hope you are staying warm and cozy in your neck of the woods…..

  369. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:18 am

    maybe we will hear some progress on Beltran this week……it sounds like he is the one they Yanks most want………they definitely can get him for less money than they would have to spend on Choo……

  370. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:19 am

    GregD, glad to hear your family has had a wonderful week, my daughter is third year U, just can’t believe how fast the time goes!

  371. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:23 am

    jmills……my son has one more year and you are absolutely right!!! My oldest grandchild will be 11 in January!!!

  372. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:25 am

    GregD, I don’t want to be a grandad anytime soon :D I’m betting my kid wants to remain a kid, a while longer.

  373. austinmac December 1st, 2013 at 7:30 am

    The Daily News says the Yankees are not meeting with Cano’s people on Monday. Evidently, there isn’t anything to say at this point.

  374. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:32 am

    austinmac December 1st, 2013 at 7:30 am
    The Daily News says the Yankees are not meeting with Cano’s people on Monday. Evidently, there isn’t anything to say at this point.

    —————————
    I read that Cano was a 9 years and $250M……..I imagine the gap is too large……I think the Yanks will be lucky to get him to 7

  375. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:32 am

    I have a very nice present planned for my daughter at, Christmas. She’s getting a “kid” Gary Carter Expos card as a bookmarker for her very own Bobby Orr autobio. Such things will go nicely avec whatever unique piece of jewellry I can find.

  376. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:42 am

    I have to yield to Pruf over the Cano thing given that I think Naomi Watts is worth every penny,…..we each have our soft spots.

  377. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:44 am

    all I want for Christmas is a happy family…….

  378. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:47 am

    and of course, Beltran, Cano, Tanaka, Kuroda and Infante……..

  379. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:48 am

    I think the Yanks should pull the trigger on another FA pitcher as we may not get Tanaka……

  380. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:50 am

    GregD, Frank Tanana’s mine.

  381. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 7:55 am

    rtsp://r7—sn-p5qlsu7e.googlevideo.com/CjYLENy73wIaLQn2aEfAXPBGPhMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoYOWmtbK2zNzaUAw=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Watch the above and you will understand how Frank Tanana broke by blue heart.

  382. GregD December 1st, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Jmills….yes, Frank Tanana…..he was a flame thrower who became a pitcher during his career…..

  383. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:02 am

    Yes, Tanana used to go toe to toe with Nolan until being forced to reinvent himself.

  384. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:18 am

    Nelson-

    “They employ a 14 person statistics department.”

    How do you know this ?

  385. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:18 am

    I don’t believe that’s public knowledge.

    ;)

  386. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:21 am

    I hope the Yankees can trade Stewart.

    That would be a coup as I think he is not even worth a bag of numbnuts.

    If the D’backs want him he’s all theirs.

    :)

  387. blake December 1st, 2013 at 8:22 am

    austinmac says:
    December 1, 2013 at 7:30 am
    The Daily News says the Yankees are not meeting with Cano’s people on Monday. Evidently, there isn’t anything to say at this point.

    I think the yanks will budge off 170 but right now there is no reason to……if Cano is at 250 then my guess is if he’d split the difference in total money then they’d have a deal.

    I’ve been saying 8/200 all along but would 9/210 be better? It’s another year but reduces the AAV a little…..heck if you’re doing an 8 year deal what’s another year tacked on……it’s gonna be bad at the end either way mostly likely…..maybe by then they will be in better payroll shape and it won’t matter

  388. Tar December 1st, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Good morning everybody

    “Again, those people (it’s not one person… you’re getting the cumulative stats off many people) are recording things for a whole season. ”

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    Defensive statistics are not counting statistics ( avg. obp. etc), it’s a totally different animal. So you can rely on “many”people who use their eyes and their “human nature” to “record” defensive statistics … I will use my own eyes….. and take what they say under advisement. But with a full dose of skepticism…at least until they bring themselves into the 21st century.

    I repeat garbage in garbage out.

    And what little range Pedy may have over Cano, is more than made up for by what Cano crushes him on….which is everything else.

    Cano is the better 2nd baseman and its not even close.

  389. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Ryan renders Nix expendable.

    A non-tender.

  390. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:24 am

    MTU, I’m running my very own stats department here, it says Bobby Orr #4 is #1.

  391. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Lively crowd this AM.

    :)

  392. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Mills-

    I don’t know squat about hockey but wasn’t Gordy Howe pretty good ?

  393. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Blake-

    At least things are going in the right direction w Cano.

    ;)

  394. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Mills-

    Forget stats.

    Just count the notches in your bedpost.

    ;)

  395. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Anybody score anything good for Black Friday ?

  396. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Pat Quinn says Orr is the geatest hockey player he has ever seen, as no other altered the game as did, Robert Gordon. Consider this, Orr was international tournament MVP in the ’76 Canada Cup when he could barely get out there. Listen to what Bobby Hull and Bobby Clarke have to say over the matter.

  397. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:39 am

    I’ll tell you what kind of baseball classic Bobby Orr would have. He’d shut down the season in July and go at it. None of this, ” I’m worried I might get a hang nail “. Baseball players are such a bunch of babies for not wanting to get it on.

  398. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:41 am

    When Russell Martin tried to say he wouldn’t play for Canada because he had to get used to his new team, I was thinking, ” heartless idiot “.

  399. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Pruf, if you’re listening, Gretzky had to knock some sense into that lug Lemieux over competing in the ’87 Canada Cup. And, no matter how good Patrick Roy thinks he is, he never suited up for Canada, I’ll take Eddie Belfour anyday!

  400. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:48 am

    Ryan Dempster is another guy I can’t stand. I needed staters, obviously.

  401. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:49 am

    *** starters ***

  402. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:51 am

    This is the way it works, if you pass on Canada, you are forever in that non hydro shack.

  403. austinmac December 1st, 2013 at 8:54 am

    The New York Times says the Yankee attendance was down 7% and Yes viewership was down 31%. Hal, that is just the beginning if you go cheap. That is a guarantee. I am willing to bet corporate ticket sales is quite down this year.

    I still think the team will go half way or less for all the missing pieces. 3B will be ugly and so will the pen. That is where they will really go cheap.

  404. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 8:56 am

    What were the Mexicans thinking about???!!! If one simply read the rules of the so called baseball classic, they’d know that scoring as many runs as possible mattered. Ernie Whitt was doing his job managing for my guys. If you continue to throw at my guys next time, expect to eat it.

  405. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Mac-

    That is pretty substantial.

    Thanks for the info.

    :)

  406. jmills December 1st, 2013 at 9:00 am

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  407. austinmac December 1st, 2013 at 9:05 am

    MTU,

    The article was about the Yankees using CC as a ticket salesman. I am afraid the problem is not the salesman. They need to fix the product.

    At this point, I expect most fans have little faith the team will rebound. If true, sales must already be down from last year.

    We older folks remember the CBS years. The Yankees were out of the pennant races in May. The Stadium was empty as attendance went below a million. The ownership let it happen, and it took nearly ten years and a new owner to fix it.

    Every year they go forward without adding youngish players means more years in the recovery process. Rebuilding does not mean playing AAAA players and hoping somehow they turn out to be decent.

  408. MTU December 1st, 2013 at 9:07 am

    New one ——–>

  409. wanzies222 December 1st, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Yanks and Cano are close, as bigdan pointed out yesterday…

    Yanks – 7*24=168
    Cano – 9*28=252

    Middle ground – 8*26=208

    Done.

    I don’t want to hear the p*ssing and moaning about the extra 40M….the franchise lost more than that last year in revenue and p*sses away millions each year in dumb deals….Youk? 12M?

    8/208. Done.

    Move on.

  410. blake December 1st, 2013 at 9:12 am

    The Yankee brand is built on winning first and foremost…..it doesn’t matter what “stars” you dress up in pinstripes…..if they don’t win it’s not gonna work

  411. Ted Nelson December 1st, 2013 at 10:01 am

    MTU, the stats department thing was mentioned in an interview this past season with Cashman: http://www.indexuniverse.com/s.....nning.html

    Tar, even if you and those people were measuring the same thing getting 30 people to measure a guy’s defense is going to give you a more unbiased opinion than getting 1 person. However, they are actually recording how often he got to balls in certain spots, which is something I doubt you are doing.
    I never said that Pedroia is a better 2B than Cano. I said that he is a better defender. How much else is there besides getting to balls? Pedroia is not particularly error prone and his arm is good enough for 2B.

  412. Ted Nelson December 1st, 2013 at 10:08 am

    wanzies222,

    Why should the Yankees meet Cano half way if he has no other offer on the table? Negotiations isn’t about pure compromise for the sake of compromise. It’s about getting a deal that makes sense. Paying someone way more than anyone else has shown any willingness to pay him doesn’t make much sense.

    Once Cano’s camp manages to drum up another offer the Yankees can up their bid. As long as they are the only bid he has, they don’t really need to. The only benefit I can see to substantially upping their bid is if they think some mystery team will come in later in the off-season to bid more than $208 million or whatever. I really doubt it. You could also argue that you don’t want Cano to feel taken advantage of, but as long as you are willing to pay him more than any other team I don’t think that’s a rational feeling on his part. You could give him some non-$ concessions and try to change his frame of reference so he realizes he got an amazing deal that no other team was going to give him.

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