The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Random thoughts as the offseason heads into December

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 02, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

With the Winter Meetings one week away, here are five random thoughts on this first Monday of December.

Robinson Cano1. What’s an $80-million gap mean at this time of the year? The Yankees and Robinson Cano clearly have a substantial gap in their negotiations — ESPN puts it at $80 million, with a two-year difference in contract length — but I think it’s hard to put the exact numbers into context on December 2. We know this is a negotiation, each side is trying to do what’s best for itself, and the important thing is that there’s some sense of coming toward a middle ground. What does $80 million mean? It means there are more conversations in order, and more time for this Cano situation to go one way or another. It’s a big number, but not necessarily an insurmountable number. I still think the Yankees should be the favorites to re-sign him.

2. I like Shin-Soo Choo — call me crazy, but I like high-OBP guys who can do a little of everything — but I tend to agree with the idea of Carlos Beltran being the Yankees best fit in right field. He should come on a fairly short contract, and his age won’t be as much of a factor next season when the other aging outfielders (Soriano, Wells and Ichiro) are off the roster. Choo is going to cost more and really needs a platoon partner, Jacoby Ellsbury seems like a poor use of resources considering what the Yankees have in place, and neither Curtis Granderson nor Nelson Cruz is the sort of all-around hitter that Beltran is. I almost entirely discount Beltran’s postseason success, but I still think he fits the opening pretty well.

3. At some point this week, the Yankees will likely have a press conference to introduce Brian McCann. Getting a feel for his personality is going to be interesting. He comes with a pretty good reputation, but his impact as a clubhouse leader could be significant. Last year, with Derek Jeter gone, there were times when it was hard to figure out who the Yankees clubhouse leader was. I wonder if McCann could become that kind of guy. Same for Beltran, if the Yankees finish off that deal.

4. If you didn’t know it before, you certainly know it now: Starting pitchers are very, very expensive. Phil Hughes just got three years, $24 million from the Twins. It’s a signing that sends Hughes out of New York, but also one that sends a very clear signal to a Yankees team that needs two starters. Brian Cashman has said he’s looking for 400 innings. To get those those 400 innings from remotely young pitchers with any sort of upside is going to be expensive and risky. That’s why the risk-reward of Masahiro Tanaka (chance of long-term, relatively affordable impact), and why a one-year deal with Hiroki Kuroda (no long-term risk) are so appealing.

5. Did you catch the Buster Olney report this weekend, the one in which Olney speculates that the Yankees will ultimately release Alex Rodriguez no matter what happens with the suspension? People have brought up that idea for a while, and I’ve always thought it was nonsense. At the end of the day, the guy is owed a ton of money and could be a reasonably productive player. But the longer this thing drags out — the more lawsuits are filed and radio interviews are conducted — the more it starts to feel like a real possibility that the situation could reach that sort of breaking point. It would still be stunning to see it actually happen, but no act seems too crazy for this circus.

Associated Press photo

 
 

Advertisement

127 Responses to “Random thoughts as the offseason heads into December”

  1. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:10 am

    im not prone to listing out proposed lineups, but a cano/kemp/tex middle three is none too shabby, imo…

  2. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Good morning Ys.

    Make it happen!

  3. pat December 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Buster_ESPN
    The Pirates are on the verge of acquiring catcher Chris Stewart from the Yankees.

  4. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    There are ton of issues still to be addressed.

    Thanks for the shorter version Chad.

    Hope you had a good Holiday.

    :)

  5. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Ys Guy says:
    December 2, 2013 at 9:01 am
    again, i’d trade cc for kemp straight up every day and twice on monday.

    I think it would be a risky deal for both teams…..the money is fairly even so you have to ask does it fill a need for both teams……it fills a need for the Yankees but also opens a gaping hole in their rotation.

  6. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    What do the Yankees get in return ?

    A PTBNL ? Cash ?

    A coup if they get anything for Stewart.

    :)

  7. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    The pirates take all our garage……farewell Stewie…..sadly we knew ye too well

  8. Doreen December 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Y’s Guy -

    On Kemp – 2011 was two seasons ago now, so, it’s been two years since he was the best player in baseball. The injuries make me quite hesitant. One of the reasons Cano is such a must-have in my mind (though, if it doesn’t work out, we all move on), is his good health. It may come at the cost of some balls not being run out, sure, but he is playing at least 158 games a season. Not bad.

    randy -

    Jorge Posada himself said that he thought the Yankees ought to sign McCann. He’s not a favorite of mine, but it is definitely an upgrade. They couldn’t go with the status quo. And maybe it’s not such a high bar, but at least it was addressed. We shall see what we shall see. Most players who hit free agency are going to be trending downward these days….

    I think reserving judgment until at least after these winter meetings, and at most until spring training is probably in order. Too many variables this off-season that are not under the Yankees’ (or any team’s) control (posting system still undecided, ARod situation still undecided).

  9. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:16 am

    CC is going nowhere.

    Give it up.

    ;)

  10. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Here are the projected salaries, courtesy of the reliable formula created by Matt Swartz for MLB Trade Rumors:

    Reliever David Robertson – $5.5 million.

    Outfielder Brett Gardner – $4 million*.

    Starter Ivan Nova – $2.8 million.

    Reliever Shawn Kelley – $1.5 million.

    Catcher Francisco Cervelli – $1 million.

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....to_go.html

  11. pat December 2nd, 2013 at 9:22 am

    McCann upgrades the position but I hope he leaves the plate cop act in ATL. I’ve read the Jorge/McCann “fire” comparisons but I thought of Jorge as someone who policed his own team not the league.

  12. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:22 am

    If the Yankees plan on keeping GGBG they should try to sign him to an extension this season.

    Try something different for a change.

    It would save them money.

    ;)

  13. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:23 am

    cc’s decline isnt just last year, it clearly started in the second half of 2011.

    cc sabathia 2011;
    pre asb: (145.2 IP) 13-4, 2.72, 1.17 whip, 5 hr allowed
    post asb: (91.2 IP) 6-4, 3.44, 1.34 whip, 12 hr allowed

    so one could say that the 33 year old sabathia is further from his top performance than the 29 y/o kemp.

  14. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I have to say I was very surprised when the Yankees signed McCann.

    I thought C was a position where they might try to save money.

    Shows ya’ what I know.

    :)

  15. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I can’t see the Yankees releasing the “immature,” “out of whack moral compass,” “trying to fit in,” Rodriguez. To pay that kind of money, after a record posting fee to earn the right to sign Tanaka, makes little sense.

    Medically. it’s unlikely he’ll be able to finish the terms of that contract, with his congenitally deformed hip and probable ongoing further deterioration.

  16. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:29 am

    i assume that you are right that cc is going nowhere, but since there’s a publication saying that a cc for kemp trade is being discussed, i just thought maybe we’d kick it around a bit.

    if that trade is on the table and gets turned down the yankees will live to regret not making it, imo.

  17. Doreen December 2nd, 2013 at 9:31 am

    pat I agree 100 percent. Especially did not like the thing with Gomez.

  18. 86w183 December 2nd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Randy I —-

    I take into consideration injuries when evaluating performance.

    McCann played hurt in 2012 and his stats suffered. Last year he was coming off an injury, yet added almost 100 points to his OPS, a fact you typically ignored because it didn’t support your opinion.

    I’d bet on an OPS over .800 in 2014.

  19. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Y’s-

    At this time of year the rumors fly hot and heavy.

    Most have little credibility.

    But have at it.

    After all, it is what we do the most of around here.

    Speculate.

    I wouldn’t fix a hole by opening another major one.

    I know you think CC might be trending downwards. he might.

    But then again he might not.

    In any case, he is far from a one trick pony.

    His stuff is and always has been superior to another very successful lefty named Andy.

    He adjusted and continued on. I see no reason, even in the worst case, why CC couldn’t do the same.

    or better.

    JMO.

    :)

  20. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:36 am

    MCCanns “cop thing” was an extension of the braves ….that’s how they are

  21. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:37 am

    The Yankees probably don’t have the prospects to get a deal done, but Dave Cameron of ESPN.com offered up an interesting proposal: a straight-up deal of Kemp for CC Sabathia.

    “The Los Angeles Dodgers have a crowded outfield, and likely have to trade one of Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier or Carl Crawford due to the emergence of Yasiel Puig (and top prospect Joc Pederson isn’t far behind). They reportedly are in the market for another starting pitcher, but don’t want to part with a draft pick to sign one of the better starters on the market. By swapping Kemp for Sabathia, they could kill two birds with one stone.”

    Discussed in the blogs. No reports that the Yankees have discussed players involved, only a rumored reported interest in Kemp.

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....-matt-kemp

  22. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Randy-

    They could easily trade for one w the D’backs.

    They are a really good match.

    Get Owings for Romine/Cervelli + Betances and Claiborne.

    Owings is in his early 20′s.

    The Yankees need to start getting more creative.

  23. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:39 am

    The Yankees couldn’t even consider trading Sabathia unless they had both Kuroda and Tanaka or another guy like Garza already under contract

  24. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Or even the Cubs.

    ;)

  25. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:40 am

    he MIGHT be trending downward?

    there is no doubt that he is trending downward, there is only speculation that he can get back to being an ace.

    personally, while i like cc alot, i think his days as an ace (in the RS, in the PS he has never been an ace) are over. unfortunately for the yankees, his days of being paid as an ace go on through 2016.

  26. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:42 am

    CC doesn’t have to get back to where he was to have a lot of value…..with his height and him being left handed I have to think he can figure out how to be good again

  27. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #BlueJays in agreement with free-agent catcher on Dioner Navarro on two-year deal, pending physical.

  28. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Kershaw
    Greinke
    Ryu
    Beckett
    Billingsley
    Haren

    The Dodgers are set with starters

  29. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Y’s-

    You are entitled to your opinion but that is far from settled.

    CC might very well return to Ace status. Or not.

    He needs to make some adjustments.

    He has the smarts, competitiveness, and arsenal to do so.

    Let’s hope for the best, eh ?

  30. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Beckett is useless.

    Which is good.

    :)

  31. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:46 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: #pirates will send $ or player to be named to yanks in chris stewart deal being discussed. Olney mentioned 1st.

  32. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Blake-

    Wonderful.

    I would have accepted a bucket of golf balls.

    :)

  33. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    McCann signing is clearly an upgrade over what the Yankees threw out there at catcher last year after Cervelli went out.

    The only question are the terms and length of the contract. He still has to pass his physical.

  34. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    of course im hoping for the best as long as he’s on the roster.

    i just think people have really ignored what the trend is saying about cc and exaggerating the chances of him returning to form.

    his HR allowed rate has doubled since 2011, that is not a good trend.

  35. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 2nd, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Happy December (although a day late!) This is definitely my time of year. TG went great. I had 19 for dinner and company for the next two days and definitely overdid it because I ended up back in the ER yesterday in excruciating pain. Got a shot and more meds and slept away the day and night. Too bad because the back problem was definitely subsiding.

    Haven’t gotten to go through all the posts but love that we have McCann and Ryan so far. I haven’t yet seen any player come to the Bronx and act the total ass and get away with it so I’m not going to stress over McCann. It’ll be good to have someone with fire in his belly. Good for us.

    I also have the beginning of a lip full of cold sores so alternating all my meds is going to be a daunting task! Luckily I have great pills for cold sore outbreaks, so I won’t be dealing with that problem for very long.)

    MTU – how is Lucky doing? I hope the little guy hasn’t missed a beat.

    GO YANKEES!

  36. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:49 am

    MTU-

    Golf balls or numbnuts?

  37. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:49 am

    “so how does mccaan’s braves leadership transfer to new york? a quick look at the braves roster shows no really good latino players. could mccann lead a puig or a cano?”

    Randy love ya man but this whole “McCann hates Latino players” thing you’re pushing is totally unfounded.

  38. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:51 am

    we had this same discussion last offseason, when i said they should really look at getting out of cc’s contract while they could.

    i was roundly criticized.

    then came 2013.

    i hope were not having the same discussion next offseason, but i fear we probably will.

  39. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Can you imaging trying to feed McCann and CC for Thanksgiving ?

    They’d need a whole Turkey each.

    YT-

    I upgraded him because we are getting something for him.

    Trisha-

    Thanks for thinking of us. He is doing well so far.

    Hope you had a great Turkey day w your Family ?

  40. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:53 am

    the yankees are buttoned-down. mccann will take his cue from jeter and the rest.

    im not worried about his attitude at all, i think he will be much mellower.

    not that the yankees couldn’t use at least a little more attitude, imo.

  41. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Here’s an interesting report just released. Every homer that Phil Hughes allowed in YS would have been a homer in Target Field.

    http://www.chatsports.com/new-.....-2-8910486

  42. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Y’s-

    You may turn out to be a prophet.

    But this is one time I hope you are definitely wrong.

    We really need a healthy and effective CC.

    I think he should put back some of the poundage.

    He needs more momentum to the plate and it helps with the ballast keeping him steady.

    Eat more CC.

    :)

  43. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Yankee Trader says:
    December 2, 2013 at 9:54 am
    Here’s an interesting report just released. Every homer that Phil Hughes allowed in YS would have been a homer in Target Field.

    http://www.chatsports.com/new-…..-2-8910486

    By distance maybe but that’s not the only factor….the ball doesn’t carry in Minnesota like it does in that YS jet stream. Hughes gave up 10 more homers and had double the era at YS last season….. Can’t be coincidence

  44. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 9:57 am

    It’s interesting that the Yankees virtually always trade with either the Pirates or the mariners …..

  45. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Predicting things is a difficult business.

    Just look at the NWS.

    Even with a bazillion dollars worth of Supercomputers to assist them.

    They still get some wrong.

    I’m going to wait and watch. And hope.

    :)

  46. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    id rather be wrong and see cc win the cy young.

    (but id still make the trade for kemp)

  47. 86w183 December 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    blake —

    You have the audacity to voice an opinion on a catcher that’s contrary to Randy’s??

    It’s like arguing catechism with the Pope!

    I’ll pray for your soul

    Gotta run for a while…. Have a Day All! Randy, laxatives might help.

  48. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:00 am

    blake-

    The D’backs should be a natural trade partner too.

    The M’s one is bizarre.

    The Pirates seem to like to take our castoffs.

  49. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    i can’t wait to find out how many dozen used baseball the pirates will give up for the otherwise-sure-to-be-non-tendered stewart.

    im guessing the trade is for someone they can’t give away before non-tendering.

  50. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Can we please just what some of these guys do before we pronounce judgment on them ?

    :)

  51. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    MTU

    Agree. Just look at the attached photo of CC. That’s excess body mass, not lean body mass.

    Dr. Orr Limpisvasti, a sports medicine surgeon at the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles and an orthopedic consultant for the Los Angeles Angels, said that Sabathia’s weight loss should not be dismissed as a possible reason for his struggles.

    “You can assume that when a big player that loses that much weight, you would have to know whether that was excess body weight that wasn’t helping them,” said Limpisvasti, who did not examine Sabathia. “You look at any physiological changes. That includes, has a player lost 20 pounds or put on 20 pounds? Is it lean body mass that he’s losing? Is it excess weight?”

    Limpisvasti has seen significant weight loss affect players in activities that involve repetitions of rotating the body like golfing and pitching. The change in weight alters the mechanics and the power these athletes generate.

    “Players find the point at which their body is most efficient for them, healthiest for them and most durable for them,” he said. “He’s pitched with that body weight for a long time. Surely, losing that much weight can potentially change his mechanics and how his body works in terms of delivering a pitch.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11......html?_r=0

  52. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    “The Pirates seem to like to take our castoffs.”

    And turn them into assets

  53. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Y’s-

    Anything they get for Stewart is a plus.

    :)

  54. Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:03 am

    “what do you call a .698 OPS in 2012″

    A guy playing through a shoulder injury that needed surgery?

  55. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Blake-

    Those factors were mentioned in the article about the homers. Only distance was compared.

  56. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:05 am

    pat December 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Buster_ESPN
    The Pirates are on the verge of acquiring catcher Chris Stewart from the Yankees.

    ——————-

    The end of an error.

  57. Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:05 am

    “By distance maybe but that’s not the only factor….the ball doesn’t carry in Minnesota like it does in that YS jet stream. Hughes gave up 10 more homers and had double the era at YS last season….. Can’t be coincidence”

    The link says this:

    Of course, this only looks at dimensions of the park and does not account for the other factors that can affect a fly ball’s distance, like altititude, humidity, wind and temperature.

  58. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:06 am

    YT-

    Who knows ?

    :)

    Blake-

    Not all of them.

    Sometimes we do lack the patience though.

    ;)

  59. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “maybe i’m missing something but who is a really good latino player on the braves ?”

    1) what does that have to do with McCann? He’s not the GM
    2) Teheran , betancourt (the guy replacing him), Simmons, Constanza.

    I don’t remember reading any reports of those players calling McCann a racist..

  60. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:07 am

    No Shame-

    The existence of an upgrade.

    ;)

  61. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Hughes’s career era is almost a full run higher at YS…..he’s pretty much a 4 era pitcher away from YS in his career and if that’s what the twins get then it be worth his contract easily

  62. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 2nd, 2013 at 10:07 am

    “the yankees are buttoned-down. mccann will take his cue from jeter and the rest.

    im not worried about his attitude at all, i think he will be much mellower.

    not that the yankees couldn’t use at least a little more attitude, imo.”

    Agree.

    Also think that CC needs to put whatever weight back on that he had on when he was most successful. Just a huge guess on my part but I think that changed a lot of things.

  63. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Randy-

    I like contrary positions.

    Chandeliers ? Boat docks ?

    :)

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am

    “The end of an error.”

    :lol:

  65. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am

    MTU,
    Burnett, Tabata, Martin ….all have been either great or at least ok for the pirates

  66. Ted Nelson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am

    “what do you call a .698 OPS in 2012

    .. and 102 games in 2013 with .796 OPS which wouldn’t be bad in isolation but 90 million for under .800 ops ?

    games:

    128games 2011
    121 games 2012
    102 games 2013″
    ————————————————————————————-

    Eh… not sure you understand what a trend is. Having an OPS of .698 and then .796 is not a downward trend. So calling out his OPS in one injury plagued season is completely irrelevant to a discussion of trend. (I would stop using OPS, by the way. It’s just a combination of two unlike things without much of any context. Take a look at his wRC+ or OPS+.)

    If you can’t recognize that he’s a C in talking about his stats or that you are not buying his 2013 production, I don’t know what to tell you.

    The games played is a trend, but you’re presented it without any context. He was recovering from surgery in 2013. He was expected to miss time from before the season. That is not the case this season.

  67. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    I can make CC some BBQ …..he needs his belly back

  68. UpState December 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    TU December 2nd, 2013 at 9:39 am
    Randy-

    They could easily trade for one w the D’backs.

    They are a really good match.

    Get Owings for Romine/Cervelli + Betances and Claiborne.

    Owings is in his early 20?s.

    The Yankees need to start getting more creative.

    ————————————

    Excellent target from Arizona !

    Not sure we’d need to package 3 to send to the desert, though.

  69. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:10 am

    I know he’s a FA but it would be funny as hell if they sent us AJ Burnett.

    Not like as a player under contract but just to send him to NY to hang out.

  70. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:10 am

    CC needs to get back to looking more Wells-like.

    Then the rubber will return to his arm.

    :)

  71. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:10 am

    here’s my problem with the ‘weight-loss caused cc’s problems’ theory.

    his decline started before his weight loss.

    so the decline is more likely to be the cause of the weight loss (in an attempt to ‘find it) than the reverse.

    so telling a heavy 33 y/o pitcher who’s pitched the most innings in baseball the last several years to put on weight doesnt seem to be a good idea to me.

    to me age + workload is the reason for the decline. more weight may well make it worse.

  72. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:10 am

    McCann was also the 5th best in baseball last year at framing pitches…..something Stewie was supposedly good at when he wasn’t whiffing on strikes and chasing them to the back stop

  73. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Shame-

    “An end of an error.” Clearly the line Chad should use in his next post when discussing the Stewart trade..

  74. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:12 am

    UpState-

    Just to give credit where credit is due.

    I am merely echoing Wanzies222 on that one.

    But yeah. It makes a ton of sense.

    ;)

  75. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:12 am

    I doubt CC will ever be what he used to be…..but if he’s healthy I think he will learn to be effective again. It takes time to adjust…..but he’s 6’8 and left handed and still has a great slider and above average CU when he’s on top of the ball……

  76. Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    People who think CC’s weight loss is the reason for his down 2013 should read this article.

    http://www.ericcressey.com/cc-sabathia-weight

  77. UpState December 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:12 am
    UpState-

    Just to give credit where credit is due.

    I am merely echoing Wanzies222 on that one.

    But yeah. It makes a ton of sense.
    ——————————————————–

    Well then…. it seems that 222 is an extremely bright Yankee fan !

  78. Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:15 am

    “Eh… not sure you understand what a trend is. Having an OPS of .698 and then .796 is not a downward trend. So calling out his OPS in one injury plagued season is completely irrelevant to a discussion of trend. ”

    Also, trends are not really predictive in baseball. If they were, we should expect McCann to have an OPS of .894 this year.

  79. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:15 am

    blake-

    AJ B. could not handle the bright lights.

    Tabata was let go because they thought he was a headcase.

    McCann is way better than Martin offensively.

    How about Karstens and than other young pitcher we gave them.

    Not exactly lighting up the Stratosphere.

    the NL is way easier than the AL east and NY. Not every guy is built for the heat.

    ;)

  80. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:15 am

    These reports on Cano are interesting… I still think there are teams – and I mean that sincerely, I think there would be more than one team – that would go 8/200 for Cano.

    I didn’t get to continue the conversation with 86 yesterday, but I said you could make a case for a team like the Cubs that’s usually a high payroll club with lots of money off the books now and good, young, cheap talent to off-set a huge contract would be a match. The Mariners are in a bit of a similar situation (Compass should have a better idea). And I think there are some wild card teams out there because of that TV money..

    I really think Cano is good for the next 5 years. I think over the next 5 years, he continues to be one of the best second basemen in the league. Any teams that think they have a window might be in.

    I’d rather try to get him to sign a 9/200 deal now lol, take that AAV down a notch. Front load the deal. Buy him out in the last couple if you have to.

  81. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    I don’t have a clue if CCs weight has anything to do with his struggles…..the main reason he struggled was because he was on the side of the ball and his velocity was down …..but what caused that I dunno

  82. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    US-

    He definitely is.

    ;)

  83. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Also: definitely worth noting that we’re getting some more clarity on where the numbers are. Cano has come down about $50 million from initial reports already (it’s still pretty early in the off season.. hard to believe) and the Yanks have come up about $8 million.

  84. Vince December 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 am

    “Since 2006, McCann’s first full season, only four catchers have delivered more offensive value. Strip out Victor Martinez and Mike Napoli, who no longer catch, and McCann trails only Joe Mauer and Buster Posey; and once the 2014 season starts, Mauer won’t be catching, either.”

    If we’re dissecting McCann, here’s a few points:

    1. He is elite at framing pitches (Stewart was too).
    2. He is not good at throwing out baserunners but is elite as pitches in the dirt (an upgrade from the 2013 Yankees’ catching situation.
    3. Yankee Stadium is THE TOP lefty hitting ballpark in the AL and McCann is a pull hitter. Even if he regresses slightly, his numbers naturally improve.
    4. McCann, even last year, was about a three win player. A win is generally regarded as worth about 6 million dollars. Three wins over a replacement caliber player makes McCann even more valuable since our catchers were not replacement level last year.
    5. Games McCann may have sat or been tired for in Atlanta, he might DH in NY. Added value.

  85. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Randy,
    Are you saying he may have culture shock going from Atlanta to Ny or that he dislikes Latin players? Cause those are two different things

  86. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Blake-

    Full recovery from elbow surgery sometimes takes more than a yr.

    ;)

  87. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    blake – I think it’s possible the velo isn’t related to his weight loss. I think he might just be losing it with age and I think this was the first year he couldn’t reach back and find something extra. I really see this as his Mussina circa 2007 year. I think he is a smart pitcher and will figure it out this off season.. he did look a lot better in the last month or two compared to early in the year.

  88. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    4. McCann, even last year, was about a three win player. A win is generally regarded as worth about 6 million dollars. Three wins over a replacement caliber player makes McCann even more valuable since our catchers were not replacement level last year.”

    He’s probably closer to 5 when you factor in the things that catchers do ( like framing pitches ) that WAR doesn’t include

  89. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:20 am

    excellent link russel.

    and once again, the nyt article said that cc weighed in at 315 lbs at the end of 2011.

    as shown above, cc’s statistical decline clearly started in the second half of 2011.

    the weight loss was a reaction to the decline in the second half of the prior year, not a cause of it.

    i think more weight for cc is a bad idea.

  90. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Here is a fun question based on the Kemp discussion:

    If you had to trade a pitcher, would you rather it be CC or Nova?

    We’ll have to assume we’re getting no money back on CC’s deal, I suppose. So the contracts are a part of the package.

  91. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Y’s-

    I wasn’t serious about CC putting the poundage back on.

    ;)

  92. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    we all know which way i’d vote shame…

  93. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Shame-

    C) Neither

    :)

  94. pat December 2nd, 2013 at 10:26 am

    “We don’t yet know where Cano will play next year, and for how much money, but he was not helped by the leaking of the $300 million request, which made a great player seem suddenly overvalued, even greedy, in the eyes of some fans. Most people in the general public do not have the time to follow every story and update, or to differentiate between a midseason negotiation and offseason talk — and so most people probably still believe that Cano is asking to be paid more than any player in baseball history.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....on–0

  95. Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:26 am

    The best case scenario at this point with CC is that he’s worth his contract. Nova is almost certainly going to be worth more than he’s being paid. If they’re going to continue to deluding themselves into thinking they can be competitive with a $189 million payroll you trade CC for whatever you can get.

  96. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:26 am

    mtu, i wasnt directing that at your joke, which made me chuckle.

    but there is an ongoing discussion about just this, and the nytimes article sided with the ‘put on weight’ side.

    i think that’s a bad idea and i fear that cc may take that suggestion and come into came at 310, which to me can’t be good.

  97. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    “to me age + workload is the reason for the decline. more weight may well make it worse.”

    Read your entire post and then others on weight loss and will now retract my position. I think my guess was likely not a good one.

    *******************

    “the NL is way easier than the AL east and NY. Not every guy is built for the heat.”

    It takes a “special” mentality to make it in the Bronx. We need more Boomer types and fewer Ricky Ledee types in the Bronx. It’s not place for headcases or fragile psyches.

  98. pat December 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Stewie for PTBNL not $

  99. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:28 am

    MTU – Cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater!

  100. Vince December 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Blake: Also valid.

    In addition, It’s very unlikely A-Rod is going to be any sort of cornerstone player in a few years here, if he’s not done already one way or another. It’s also unlikely Jeter plays much beyond next season. This means, contrary to popular belief, the DH spot should have a lot of free time since the team will look very different 2-3 years from now.

    McCann need only catch through the age of about 33 before shifting to DH (or even first base depending on Tex’s situation post 2016) to make this deal worth it. As long as his bat is in the lineup, it’s a solid investment for someone who may be only 35 when the contract ends.

  101. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Russell Munson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 am
    People who think CC’s weight loss is the reason for his down 2013 should read this article.

    http://www.ericcressey.com/cc-sabathia-weight

    ——————————
    Just finished the article, which makes very valid points. Thanks for including it.

  102. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Shame-

    No problem.

    I love pumpkin pie.

    :)

  103. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    i really like cc, i pull for him every time. i love his attitude, he fits on the yankees.

    im rooting big time for a comeback and i do think its possible.

    especially for a guy as tough-minded and hard working as cc.

    cy young, comeback player of the year and a WS ring for 2014, unless he’s on the dodgers, in which case,

    mvp, comeback player of the year, and a WS ring for kemp in pinstripes!

    :)

  104. pkyankfan69 December 2nd, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Joe G must have shed a tear this morning when he heard the news about Stewie

  105. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:32 am

    If you had to trade a pitcher, would you rather it be CC or Nova?”

    Tough choice…..I’m not sold on nova but he’s younger and a lot cheaper. I think Sabathia is a bigger loss baseball wise

  106. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Was the NY Mag article on Alex posted yet..? A real interesting read just on a tidbit level. Their pieces are generally very good. If you’re not worn out by the whole thing, it’s worth your time.

    http://nymag.com/news/sports/a.....-12/#print

  107. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Don’t concern yourself with the past, or even the present.

    Just the future.

    Because that is where hope lies.

    ;)

  108. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    “i ‘m saying this isn’t an ideal fit for new york because i think the yankees should be adding latino stars like puig.”

    That’s pretty tortured logic….and as I’ve said many times the Braves plunked Bryce Harper on more than one occasion for showboating or whatever and he’s not Latino……one time I recall Teheran actually doing it.

  109. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 am

    If the Dodgers called and said we will give you Kemp and 1/3 of his salary for Nova then is probably do it….that gets Kemps AAV down in the 14 million range

  110. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Anyone who does not sense the greatness that is Puig is not a friend of mine.

    Don’t you think a Stallion must put on a display to fulfill his nature ?

    And shouldn’t we as bystanders revel in it ?

    He is not trying to show people up. He is just being who he naturally is.

    ;)

  111. UpState December 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Ricky Ledee :

    While not a big RL fan…over his 520 NYY AB’s he produced -

    17-83-.258

    He helped us, as trade bait, to ‘get’ David Justice.

    Don’t recall his other ‘issues’.

  112. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I think the Pirates overpaid

  113. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Blake-

    If I am willing to think hard about Nova for Castro (I am).

    Then surely I do the same when the name on the other side of the ledger is Kemp + money back.

    ;)

  114. Ted Nelson December 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 am

    “Three wins over a replacement caliber player makes McCann even more valuable since our catchers were not replacement level last year.”

    Yeah, because the starters were well above replacement. While I didn’t expect him to continue his torrid pace from April, Cervelli was always on about a 2 fWAR pace in each of the three other seasons he’s been in MLB. Even without considering P framing Stewart was at 0.5 fWAR. Framing arguably adds a couple of wins for him.

    Don’t get me wrong, McCann is a nice upgrade. His offense is ridiculously better than Stewart’s and he’s generally stayed healthy unlike Cervelli. But the idea that the Yankees previous Cs were so terrible is just unfounded.

  115. pat December 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Shame
    Not a lot new in the article but Alex having Jones fill out a W-9 IRS form was a contrast to MLB handing over a bag of cash in a diner. :wink:

  116. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    puig led my fbb team to the championship, so he’s my guy.

    i think time and leadership (mattingly) can soften some of his rougher edges.

    but dont rain on his enthusiasm, its part of his game.

  117. Captain Clutch December 2nd, 2013 at 10:41 am

    I hope that the yanks are working on ways to improve the rotation. I haven’t heard them connected to any starting pitchers besides Tanaka. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rangers, dodgers and cubs all out bid the yanks. So they better get busy and don’t only have their eyes on one guy.

  118. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:42 am

    pat – Oh I dunno about that.. I didn’t know Selig’s salary!

    Or that little bit about a FA player’s agent that contacted Bosch and subsequently got all of MLB on his doorstep. Thought that was interesting.

  119. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Y’s-

    Thank you.

    My position exactly.

    talent is off the charts. Lot’s of testosterone and cultural difference.

    Don’t try to make gold into lead.

    Wish we had stepped up.

    :)

  120. Shame Spencer December 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am

    :arrow:

  121. Yankee Trader December 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Have to go.

    Will there be any progress when Cano’s agent calls Cashma/Levine today?

    Until later.

  122. MTU December 2nd, 2013 at 10:44 am

    New one ——–>

  123. Ys Guy December 2nd, 2013 at 10:45 am

    ledee was the starting LF on two yankees champions, have some respect.

    its not his fault he was the best they had in LF, but he contributed.

    wherever you are ricky, thanks!

  124. blake December 2nd, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “But the idea that the Yankees previous Cs were so terrible is just unfounded.”

    What? The Yankees catching situation in 2013 was amongst the worst in baseball…..hard to see it any other way.

    A McCann/Cervelli platoon could give .850 overall OPS at the catcher spot and that woukd be huge

  125. Vince December 2nd, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Chris Stewart’s career WAR is 1.9. Career.

    Last year, correct, 0.5 and solely for his defense. McCann, one way or another, will match that and then provide 3 WAR for his offense. Cervelli had 61 AB and has never had more than 317 in a single season at the big league level. Even if you want to pretend over the course of a season his value wouldn’t dwindle from overuse, he’s never exceeded 0.9 in a single season. I think, at best, all things considered, the Yankees’ catchers might have COMBINED for a 1 WAR in 2013. Even if you want to think McCann’s injury last year as well as the ballpark difference accounts for nothing and keeps him at 3WAR, it still doesn’t take into account the other 30-40 or so games of whoever is backing him up.

  126. Ted Nelson December 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    “What? The Yankees catching situation in 2013 was amongst the worst in baseball…..hard to see it any other way.”

    There were 4 teams that got below replacement Cing, and 7 teams that got fewer fWAR at C than the Yankees. That is despite their starter getting hurt a few weeks into the season and never returning. It also doesn’t give Stewart any credit at all for his biggest skill as a P-framer. The Yankees probably got about league average or a bit below production from C. By any standard besides the spoiled Yankee fan standard that is not terrible.

    What evidence do you have on your side besides a bunch of teenagers whining on the internet?

    “Chris Stewart’s career WAR is 1.9. Career. Last year, correct, 0.5 and solely for his defense.”

    You know giving non-playing time adjusted stats isn’t the way to show how good someone is, right?

    P-framing studies estimate that he’s worth another 2+ WAR per season.

    I made it very clear that I think McCann is a big upgrade. Why you’re acting like I didn’t is beyond me. What I said had nothing to do with the upgrade from 2013 to 2014, it had to do with the state of Yankee Cing in 2013. Going from around the middle of the pack to about the top of the pack does not mean that you were at the bottom of the pack to begin with.

  127. pete2 December 2nd, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    I definitely think Arod could be released after his suspension. The Yankees lose about 63 million (salary about 21 million per year for those last 3 years), but save 27.5 million AAV, and also, save on about 12 million in achievable HR bonuses.

    I think they try and trade him and eat a lot of salary but Arod probably vetoes this.

    I also think it possible Arod gets blackballed after being released like Barry Bonds was, although he may have a chance latching on with a team like the Marlins for small dollars if he wants to pursue some HR milestones pro-bono


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581