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Non-tenders just the beginning of 40-man maneuvering

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 03, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joe Girardi

Yesterday, the Yankees opened four roster spots and filled one. But the 40-man roster cuts might not be finished.

Chris Stewart has been traded, Brendan Ryan has been signed, and the trio of David Adams, Jason Nix and Matt Daley have been non-tendered. That series of moves left the Yankees with 36 players on their 40-man roster. In next few days — maybe in the next few hours — Brian McCann will bring the total up to 37, leaving only three openings for offseason moves.

That’s not enough.

It seems inevitable that the Yankees will add at least five players.

1. Robinson Cano … or someone else to play second base

2. Carlos Beltran … or someone else to play right field

3. Hiroki Kuroda … or someone else to give the Yankees roughly 200 innings

4. Masahiro Tanaka … or someone else to give the Yankees another 200 innings or so

5. Late-inning reliever … because the bullpen’s lost too many pieces to not add at least one

And that’s to say nothing of these possibilities.

6. Left-handed reliever … unless the Yankees are sold on Cesar Cabral/David Huff

7. Middle reliever … again, because of all the bullpen’s uncertainty and inexperience

8. Third baseman … because the Yankees need to be prepared for an A-Rod suspension

9. Another hitter … because there’s no DH at the moment

10. Random waiver claim … because at least one is probably inevitable

Maybe there aren’t 10 additions coming, but that seems to be the high end of the possibility spectrum. Five to eight seems probable if not inevitable, and that means another two to five spots — at least — that have to be opened at some point. We saw a lot of 40-man maneuvering yesterday, and we’re going to see a lot more in the coming weeks and months.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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158 Responses to “Non-tenders just the beginning of 40-man maneuvering”

  1. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 8:57 am

    So we have 3. If we pick up 10, that means we have to lose 7, correct?

    Do we have any automatic DLs that won’t count for a while?

  2. coney1 December 3rd, 2013 at 8:57 am

    SJ was mentioning on his Twitter blog this morning about the Yanks potentially signing Infante, Beltran and Choo over the next week. Heyman mentioned the Yanks as favorites for Beltran and seriously pursuing Ellsbury last night on MLB Network. I wonder if they are seriously considering signing 2 OFs because they have a solid trade lined up for Brett Gardner. If there is a deal out there for Gardner, I would imagine it’s either for a SP, a SS or a 3b. Perhaps Starlin Castro, Chase Headley, etc. Any other names you can think of?

  3. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 8:59 am

    The Yankees 40 Man has been a mess for a while now.

    They should have cleared some dead wood long ago.

    Should be fun to see how they make room.

    :)

  4. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 am

    I will regretfully give you 7 who are currently on the 40 man who will have to go. Sorry guys.

    Ben Cherington looks like Frankenstein. Just sayin’

  5. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 am

    maybe. Hopefully. some trades are coming.

    Wells should be released or traded.

    Maybe payoff Ichiro.

    The possibility of buying out A-rod even exists.

    And they will have to cull others from the herd.

  6. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:01 am

    You guys sit behind your keyboards and make all these fancy proclamations on what should be done. Do you realize how tough it is to deal with your 40-man, make trades, fit people in, let people go? Not that easy, pals. Have some respect for the process they have to go through!

    And it ain’t your money, by the way!

    ;)

  7. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:02 am

    gardner for headley makes alot of sense.

    the pads clearly cant start maybin out there again, he was one of the worst starters in the sport last season.

    both guys are 29, both a year from free agency.

    the yankees would have to throw in something more.

    again, if they don’t trade gardner they really need to extend him, imo

  8. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Yanks are the favorites to land Beltran. 7 years later, but it still just might work out! Hope Brian McCann doesn’t tell him how to play ball!

    :D

  9. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:03 am

    At this time of yr. most anything Heyman has to say about a Boras client is highly suspect since he is a shill for Boras.

    Ellsbury and Choo are both Boras clients I believe.

  10. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Ys Guy – I could be dead wrong on this one, but I just don’t see them parting with Gardner. And in the “you don’t need an All Star at every position” school of thought, he’s one hell of a player to have!

  11. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Yeah, I’m not buying Heyman either. He’s also a shill for the Sux.

  12. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Bud will do anything he can to screw the Yankees one final time, and he will have his faithful companion Joe Torre there to help out. Don’t expect any closure on the Japanese bidding system soon…

  13. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Trisha-

    What we do around here is speculate and offer opinions.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    W/o it there would be no blog.

    Nobody is pretending they know more than Cashman about the Yankees roster.

    Just offering up opinions on it’s state.

    I don’t feel sorry for Cashman. He makes a ton of money. He should be working hard.

    And many would agree that the 40 man has been a mess for a while now.

    ;)

  14. AAA December 3rd, 2013 at 9:09 am

    SJ was mentioning on his Twitter blog this morning about the Yanks potentially signing Infante, Beltran and Choo over the next week.

    =============================

    He also refers to Cano as very good, not great. In that, he loses credibility. Still talking about a top 5 player in the game right now.

  15. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:09 am

    The only issue with Gardner for Headley….even if the padres would do it is that the yanks would have no CFer for 2014. Would make it almost a most to sign Ellsbury …..

  16. LGY December 3rd, 2013 at 9:10 am

    McCann and Ichiro or Russell Martin and Choo?

    (Of course this question changes depending on other free agent signings or trades this winter)

  17. AAA December 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    gardner for headley makes alot of sense.

    ===============

    Not for the Pads it doesn’t.

  18. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    I think people undervalue how good cano really is…..if he’s gone you’re literally lopping 6 or 7 wins right off the top for the Yankees. They’d have to do a lot lf work just to get back to where they were last year .

  19. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    MTU – I’m funning. No humbrage need be taken with anything I say this morning!

    :)

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Ted Lilly retiring. :(

    Someone else will have to take care of the 40-man. I don’t really know all the players and so it isn’t fair for me to shanghai someone who might actually have value.

    :)

  21. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    I also think people are crazy if they think somebody else won’t give cano a 8/200ish contract if the Yankees won’t……

  22. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Blake-

    Yup.

    he’s an elite 2b.

    terrific on both sides of the ball.

  23. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    LGY says:
    December 3, 2013 at 9:10 am
    McCann and Ichiro or Russell Martin and Choo?

    The latter easily…..not signing Martin was a pretty big mistake for a lot of reasons

  24. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:14 am

    hey i agree with you guys on gardner. i was just speculating on where they might get the traditional 3B type in a trade.

    my preference for gardner is for them to extend him now.

  25. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Got to get going soon.

    Hike day today.

    Gonna get a big rain/snow storm around here soon. last chance before the storm.

    And temps are going to drop 20 degrees.

    Brrrrrr !

  26. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    AJP to the Sox, huh? They must be really happy with their prospect. And don’t they still have Ross? Probably still a solid deal for them and doesn’t clog up the position at a high price. Salty became the top catcher on the market after McCann came off the board. It’d be funny if he ends up back in Texas.

    I’m still worried they’ll go too far on Beltran… I’d blink on an 8th year for Cano before I blink on a 3rd for Beltran.

  27. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    as i posted last night, which do you prefer, ellsbury at 7/$140 or gardner at 3/$30M?

    but the yankees don’t do that, they prefer paying waiting so they can pay over $100M next offseason.

  28. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Y’s-

    If they think they might want to keep him beyond this yr. it makes sense.

    They won’t do it though.

  29. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:16 am

    “as i posted last night, which do you prefer, ellsbury at 7/$140 or gardner at 3/$30M?”

    How about Choo at 6/100 ?

  30. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:02 am

    gardner for headley makes alot of sense.

    ————–

    Apparently the Tigers are in on Headley… honestly, there aren’t many teams we could beat out in a trade deal. We need to find the perfect situation to make a trade work with only two legitimate trade chips on the big league roster (since no one wants to humor me and try to trade Tex).

  31. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:18 am

    “Nobody is pretending they know more than Cashman about the Yankees roster.”

    1. Not so fast there, Pancho. Well, maybe nobody in present company!

    2. That said, it is in the realm of possibility that some do!

    Some extremely esoteric advice…

    If you are someone who keeps vouching for players who continue to get traded from the Yankees and/or players who don’t have a shot of coming to the Yankees, you might want to question how much your assessments are really worth. Short of doing that, you definitely don’t want to continue to tell other posters they don’t know anything when they disagree with you!

    :D

  32. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:19 am

    its not my money but if they sign beltan to 3 years, that 2016 payroll, with beltran, cc, tex and arod all over the hill and drawing huge paychecks will be super ugly.

    id expect much better production out of cano that season than from beltran.

    but if they plan to just spend their way through that 2016 payroll mess, then im all for it.

  33. AAA December 3rd, 2013 at 9:19 am

    How about Choo at 6/100 ?

    ========================

    Don’t think sub $17M AAV will get it done for Choo at this point.

  34. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Trisha-

    It isn’t me.

    I can’t speak for others.

    I’m just offering my usually incorrect opinions.

    I’m actually a very good reverse barometer.

    :)

  35. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:22 am

    And please don’t call me Pancho, Annie.

    :)

  36. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:23 am

    “Don’t think sub $17M AAV will get it done for Choo at this point.”

    Maybe not….probably take closer to 20 AAV but Id still rather spend big on him that any of the other outfielders

  37. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:23 am

    @GordonEdes: Indications are that Saltalamacchia within a couple of days of signing elsewhere

  38. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:24 am

    i like choo, bit i still think i’d rather extend gardner and put those resources elsewhere.

    but ill be happy with either choo or gardner in CF next season.

    id be happy with ellsbury there next year, too, but i dont’ want any part of the long term huge money deal it would take to get him

  39. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Hooray.

    Winter Meetings next week.

    :)

  40. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    “I also think people are crazy if they think somebody else won’t give cano a 8/200ish contract if the Yankees won’t……”

    I love Robby as much as if I gave birth to him (well, almost). I adore the kid, I think he’s the bomb, he’s all Yankee, I thrill to watching him. I love his smile, his style, his power, his glorious and effortless fielding. I’ve been sold from the start.

    At what point does it begin to be ridiculous? Are you excited watching the Yankees other 38-year-old players? Good with the nonstop injuries? Loss of power that automatically comes with age? Good with shutting down any other potential 2B in the system for the next 8 years?

    Where does it end? Why not 9? If 9, why not 10?

    I don’t give more than 6 years to a 30-year-old player, and I do that with trepidation.

    All you who have whined incessantly about Tex – and I know who you are because you whined that incessantly – he’s 33 years old! And you’ve tried to dump his contract, get him traded off, and every other thing in the world that isn’t going to happen.

    When do you learn?

  41. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    if choo’s getting 6/$120 ish then they should extend gardner immediately

  42. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Choo is not a good CF’er.

    I wouldn’t be happy w him there.

    Especially relative to GGBG’s D.

    Definite downgrade there.

  43. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:26 am

    I really hope we get an excited winter meetings this year and not just a bunch of hype

  44. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Choo is not a true CFer, he fits better in RF. you can probably get infante choo and beltran for less than 260 which is what Cano want currently. I won’t touch Ellsbury on a long term deal.

  45. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Blake-

    Me too !!!

    ;)

  46. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 am

    “Trisha-

    It isn’t me.”

    Hell no, it isn’t you! It isn’t anyone on the premises.

  47. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:30 am

    “All you who have whined incessantly about Tex – and I know who you are because you whined that incessantly – he’s 33 years old! And you’ve tried to dump his contract, get him traded off, and every other thing in the world that isn’t going to happen”

    The Yankees have gotten themselves into this fix by not having anybody to replace Cano with…..to win short term they probably have to sign Cano.

    The good news is that by the time Cano is 38 all the other bad money should be gone and if they actually rebuild correctly then perhaps his contract won’t be a problem at the end.

    Long term yes youd hope they could get away from having to give out big contracts to get or keep players…..but they aren’t in that position right now…..it’s either spend or stink….not much other option

  48. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Trisha-

    Comments on the Internet w/o the benefit of face to face are easy to misinterpret.

    That’s why I use emoticons so much.

    :)

  49. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:31 am

    I was dead wrong when I said the Yanks would never trade Montero. (Happily wrong at this juncture, but nevertheless wrong.)

    I will once again go out on a limb, this one I think a bit sturdier, and say that the Yankees will never trade Gardner.

    And in saying that, I absolutely hope I’m right because I think he is worth his weight in gold and is totally undervalued by Yankee fans.

    Vee shall see!

  50. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:31 am

    “That’s why I use emoticons so much.

    :)

    I’m wicha!

  51. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I am interested to see how Manny B bounce back in 14, to me, he is best pitching prospect yanks have in terms of being a potential frontliner.

  52. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I don’t see them dealing Gardner because his value isn’t high enough to warrant it…..only way I could see it would be in a package type thing but that’s really hard to predict

  53. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I trust Edes.

  54. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    I would hope they wouldn’t trade him because of his value to the Yankees, forget his value elsewhere. JMO of course.

  55. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Cashmoney says:
    December 3, 2013 at 9:32 am
    I am interested to see how Manny B bounce back in 14, to me, he is best pitching prospect yanks have in terms of being a potential frontliner.m

    Agreed….I still think he’s the best they have in terms of floor and ceiling.

  56. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    i agree with blake’s assessment completely. they will not win the next couple of years without cano.

    they can afford one too-long-for-too-much contract, just not 4 (or 5 with beltran) at a time, imo.

    they should have avoided this, but its where we are now.

  57. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Hell no, it isn’t you! It isn’t anyone on the premises.

    ——————-

    I might regret asking but, why mention it…? Seems that you responding to people’s opinions that haven’t been expressed is far less productive than the ridiculous trade ideas these phantom posters come up with. Trade proposals, however far fetched, always add something to the conversation.

  58. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:34 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue says:
    December 3, 2013 at 9:33 am
    I would hope they wouldn’t trade him because of his value to the Yankees, forget his value elsewhere. JMO of course.

    Yes well that’s the thing….in his walk year his value to the Yankees is likely higher than his trade value would be…..last year maybe not but that’s irrelevant now

  59. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:36 am

    In line with crazy trade proposals… I’m trying to figure out who the Angels will trade Josh Hamilton to. I bet they hope he has a good first half and move him. Or maybe if the right deal isn’t there, they wait until next off season. But I’m 80% sure that deal gets moved.

  60. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 9:36 am

    It should be interesting to see how many years teams are willing to commit to various tier 1 players in 14, so far i have seen teams doling out big money on MAB, but I think a lot teams are weary of hand out 7 years and beyond deal. I wonder where the equilibrium will lie.

  61. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:36 am

    “I might regret asking but, why mention it…?”

    As a learning experience. I’m responding to “people’s” opinions that HAVE been expressed. I said it was esoteric. The shoe fits or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t apply to you, as I have said it isn’t anyone here now, don’t worry about it.

    Next.

  62. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:37 am

    If they sign Cano for 8/200 then it shouldn’t be a problem on the back end IF they can become more efficient during the first half of the deal.

    Nothing is guaranteed but if Cano can just be good for 4 or 5 years and help bridge the gap to a time when they are actually developing players again then his salary shouldn’t kill them on the back end……but that all continent of course on them actually getting better at player development

  63. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:38 am

    by the way, people sound so pessimistic about cano and cashman played the “he’s probably gone’ card last night.

    in fact cano’s free agency really couldn’t be going any better for the yankeeres at this point.

    we’re approaching the WM and not one other bidder has arisen.

    the yankees have thrown out a big enough # to keep the ‘bargain shoppers’ away.

    things will change but so far, cashman is winning.

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:38 am

    And it has to do with badgering and belittling people who disagree with an opinion.

    Again – hopefully a learning experience for some. If not, oh well.

  65. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 3rd, 2013 at 9:39 am

    I still think Robby will end up with the Yanks.

    Of course that and $1.00 gets you any size soda at MacDonald’s during the summer!

    Have a great day, all!

    :)

  66. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Cashman is a good GM….i know hes a popular punching bag and I like poking at him from time to time but he’s no dummy. If ownership would leave him alone I think he could get this thing fixed ….

  67. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:41 am

    shame, the angels are gonna have to pay off a huge chunk to move hamilton.

    he gets $60M the last 2 years on that pact. but i think you’re probably right, they probably send him and a big check to the highest bidder (tradewise) at the deadline.

    of course if they’re contending and he’s the driving force, which could happen, then they won’t.

  68. austinmac December 3rd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Trisha,

    We know it isn’t our money. It makes it so much easier and more fun to spend.

    I agree filling all these holes is going to be monumentally difficult. It all depends on what they will spend. They could sign Ellsbury and Beltran and trade Gardner, but that is a lot of money.

    My official position is I have no clue what they will do.

  69. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:44 am

    @JeffPassan: More and more, you wonder if Robinson Cano is done in NY. Sources tell Y Sports the Yankees aren’t giving him $200M: http://t.co/YlkvgPKXBc

    Why do people think this is true? Big course they aren’t gonna say they’ll go to 200 when nobody else has made them

  70. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Yes well that’s the thing….in his walk year his value to the Yankees is likely higher than his trade value would be…..last year maybe not but that’s irrelevant now

    ———————

    They were trying to stay competitive without making a move last off season, but trading Grandy made a ton of sense. At the time, I think we even floated the idea of, ‘well, if you aren’t going to move Grandy because he just has a year left, you have to consider moving Gardner.’

    It’d be easier to let Cano walk, IMO, if they had a more solid OF situation. They have Wells and Ichi platooning somewhere right now with Sori as a starter. They have no OFers under contract for next year and if they pursue and sign Beltran, that’s not exactly a solution to the problem we’ll come across in 2015. I can’t imagine after last season they believe Mason, Austin or Flores will be starting on that club by then. In this sense, Choo definitely makes a lot more sense than Beltran.. I’d go 5 for Choo before going 3 for Beltran without thinking twice.

  71. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:47 am

    I want Kemp…..wish that could happen. If he bounced back you’d have a monster middle of the lineup

  72. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Again – hopefully a learning experience for some. If not, oh well.

    ————–

    It’s a backhanded comment at randy. Everyone gets it. I just don’t see what the purpose of posting it is other than to snipe and needle, the things you – rightly so – preach against.

  73. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:55 am

    @JeffPassan: Jim Johnson trade was an obvious salary dump for Baltimore. Source said Orioles could be using money to pursue outfielder Nelson Cruz.

  74. JCPD December 3rd, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Kemp would be nice, but I think he’s just as much of an injury risk as Ellsbury. That being said, money not being a factor, either one is better than what they have now.

  75. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Ys – I could see teams in on Hamilton if he bounces back and given the market/dollars OFers are getting I’, not sure the Angels would need to eat even half of that deal. He’s at a $26 AAV.. if they pay, say, $25 million total to the team that takes the final 3 years you’ve brought it down to a pretty reasonable rate for the power he brings. I just keep coming back to Pence’s deal… and what Choo will likely get..

  76. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Kemp is probably more of an injury risk than Ellsbury…..I think he’s better though when he’s healthy …

  77. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 9:57 am

    today the latino post says that the yankees are discussing a trade with the dodgers for andre ethier.

    i liked their story yesterday that they were discussing kemp better….

    kinda bait & switchy….

  78. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 9:58 am

    blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:55 am

    @JeffPassan: Jim Johnson trade was an obvious salary dump for Baltimore. Source said Orioles could be using money to pursue outfielder Nelson Cruz.

    ———

    I’d be shocked if the O’s went after a superstar like Cano, but there is no doubt in my mind they’re going to spend.

    That’s the other X factor of the off season.. we were mediocre last year and we need to get to mediocre before moving past it with the move we make. But it doesn’t account for other teams potentially improving. The Rays and O’s will probably get better. I hope the Sox just sleep on this year.. but they do still have a good rotation.

  79. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    I like Hamilton but his decline was just so strange…..it was literally like he went from MVP level to replacement level over night almost. I’ve never seen a player as talented as him fall that quickly with no injury involved.

    Maybe he can get it back…..but his 32 year old body probably plays more like 37 with all he’s been through

  80. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Ethier sucks….no thanks

  81. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Choo is a significantly better version of Ethier….. Just get him

  82. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:00 am

    I would take almost any improvement but I really hope they don’t trade for Ethier. The only way I’d like that trade is if they give up basically nothing. I don’t wanna trade off value for him. Counter productive.

  83. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    If the dodgers are able to dump a big contact they will go after Cano

  84. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    I like Hamilton but his decline was just so strange…..it was literally like he went from MVP level to replacement level over night almost. I’ve never seen a player as talented as him fall that quickly with no injury involved.
    ===============
    Maybe it’s the money…lack of incentive.

  85. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Kemp could happen. Earlier this offseason, it was posed that the Dodgers could be looking to dump his salary with the Red Sox his likely destination.

  86. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 10:03 am

    It’s silly to say the Yanks can’t win without any individual player.

    If they lose Cano, but sign Beltran, Choo, Infante, Tanaka, Kuroda and Nathan wouldn’t they be a better team?

    Of course they would. No one player is crucial to anything, This ain’t basketball.

  87. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:04 am

    “Maybe it’s the money…lack of incentive.”

    It happened before he signed his contract

  88. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Nevermind, he’s only available as a salary dump to the Red Sox. My mistake.

  89. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:05 am

    “Of course they would. No one player is crucial to anything, This ain’t basketball.”

    Indeed. Basketball is a superstar league, the Pistons of several years ago being the exception.

  90. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 10:06 am

    hamilton’s gonna have to do alot better than .739 OPS to get teams interested in trading for him, unless the angels plan on a big disbersment when he goes.

    i expect some bounceback for him but he has declined quite a bit from his 2010 apex. his 2012 walk year was an uptick but still there’s a 3 year decline and though he’s 32, everybody seems to agree that he’s an old 32.

    he’ll probably move, its just a question of what it will take from both sides to move him.

  91. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:07 am

    “If they lose Cano, but sign Beltran, Choo, Infante, Tanaka, Kuroda and Nathan wouldn’t they be a better team?”

    From 2013? Not really…..Nathan is replacing Mo….Tanaka is replacing Pettite, Beltran is replacing Granderson. So basically you’re looking at Infante/Choo vs Cano and any difference there is between Beltran and Granderson.

    So that club might be a little better than 2013 but not significantly so on paper……if they really want to get better then they need to keep Cano and add all that stuff or some of it to him IMO

  92. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    If they lose Cano, but sign Beltran, Choo, Infante, Tanaka, Kuroda and Nathan wouldn’t they be a better team?

    —————————-

    Probably, but that blows up the budget and if you’re gonna do that I’d rather just get Choo, Cano, Infante, Tanaka and Kuroda instead of paying Beltran and Nathan crazy money.

  93. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    - TUESDAY MORNING MUSINGS -

    (1) That Cashman verbiage was his lame attempt, (from the outside looking in), to get Cano off the dime.

    (2) Choo would be the better way to go, (physically and financially), if you’re serious about Kemp.

    (3) Bosch’s Blackberry is “The Smoking Gun”. CASE CLOSED

    (4) With the early signings of Jeet and McCann, I’m looking for the Yanks to also make a Big Splash at the Winter Meetings. They are making a point of trumpeting being back-on-the-map.

  94. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Signing Choo and Infante would approximate Cano’s value I think…..but that just gets you back to where you were. Adding to Cano is how you really get better…..of course money is an issue

  95. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 10:11 am

    teixeira/mccann is a pretty good upgrade over what they had last season if teix is healthy.

    unless you subtract cano.

    i disagree that cano is not essential to winning next season. more good players rarely makes up for the lack of that key top-notch player, imo.

  96. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:12 am

    I want Cano back as well, our team will better with him IMO, but you have to look at the way other teams operate. Like the Red Sox. They don’t anchor their teams down with albatross contracts anymore, while we’ve got Alexander, Mark, Carsten for beginners.

  97. MTU December 3rd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Have a good day.

    Catch you later.

    :)

  98. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    “i disagree that cano is not essential to winning next season. more good players rarely makes up for the lack of that key top-notch player, imo.”

    Hard to see how they can do it and stay under 189 though…..it’s just a much easier path to competing again with Cano. Anything is possible but they’d really have to add a lot elsewhere

  99. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Guys like Cano are a perfect example of why The Game is NOT played on paper. Put away the slide ruler.

  100. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 10:11 am

    teixeira/mccann is a pretty good upgrade over what they had last season if teix is healthy.

    ————————

    And that’s a big if. I think we’re all going to need to exercise patience with Tex at the start of the season… he’s already a slow starter and is coming off an injury that isn’t exactly easy to bounce back from for a hitter.

  101. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:14 am

    “Maybe it’s the money…lack of incentive.”

    It happened before he signed his contract
    ====================
    His 2nd half of 2012 was bad.
    Wasn’t that when the fan incident occurred?

  102. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Had they traded cano in July they’d be sitting in this exact same spot still…..only they’d have somebody’s # 1 prospect in their farm system

  103. Against All Odds December 3rd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    when they are actually developing players again then his salary shouldn’t kill them on the back end……but that all continent of course on them actually getting better at player development

    ——————–

    Yep that’s the point I’ve made more than once. If the back end of Cano’s deal is killing the team it means they still haven’t been able to develop consistently.

  104. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Hard to see where Cano will not get a better offer elsewhere.
    Esp. at the Yanks low offer.
    If they top it, is the question.
    No need to talk anymore, until he comes back with an offer.

  105. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    They don’t anchor their teams down with albatross contracts anymore, while we’ve got Alexander, Mark, Carsten for beginners.

    ——————-

    Problem is, they might end up missing valuable opportunities to improve if they’re focused on short term deals.

    If you think Cano will spend the next five years solidifying his spot in the HOF, I can’t care about the last 3 years of the deal. That’s five years to figure out how to restructure the process of the org and make the team more efficient at acquiring talent.

  106. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    if the red sox had better players instead of middlebrooks, drew and dempster but no ortiz last season, would they have won the WS?

    i think not.

  107. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    “Yep that’s the point I’ve made more than once. If the back end of Cano’s deal is killing the team it means they still haven’t been able to develop consistently.”

    If they don’t start developing players they are screwed whether they sign Cano or not so they might as well bet on themselves and do it

  108. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:21 am

    If Miggy hadn’t been hurt I don’t think Boston would have won the WS

  109. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 10:21 am

    i don’t get the logic, would the yanks won 85 games with better players elsewhere but no Cano last season?

    I think not?

  110. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:21 am

    what we are asking is if cano is worth choo or ellsbury and infante.
    i doubt anyone would make that deal.

  111. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    The yankees should have traded Cano and tried to lose enough to where their draft pick would be protected…..glad we won those 85 games and missed the playoffs anyway though

  112. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:25 am

    @msimonespn: A.J. Pierzynski had the lowest walk rate of any batting title qualifier last season (2.1%– 11 walks in 529 PA)

    That’s pretty much anti Red Sox

  113. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:26 am

    That’s pretty much anti Red Sox
    =================
    They are grasping at straws.
    They got lucky last season.
    Their savior was Uehara, not the scrubs they picked up.

  114. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Problem is, they might end up missing valuable opportunities to improve if they’re focused on short term deals.

    If you think Cano will spend the next five years solidifying his spot in the HOF, I can’t care about the last 3 years of the deal. That’s five years to figure out how to restructure the process of the org and make the team more efficient at acquiring talent.

    _____

    They’re focused on short-term deals, but they also don’t miss out on valuable opportunities. It’s about identifying what’s valuable and what’s not, and knowing when to cut bait. Renegotiating CC’s contract because of opt-out clause was a mistake. Signing a second tier star like Mark to his contract was a mistake. Taking a hard-line approach with Cano is the best option, they should not give in and capitulate to his demands, even if it plays out into late January.

  115. tucker December 3rd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    AJP is a good signing for the Sox. He’s a better defensive catcher than Salty and a short-term deal. He’s probably good for 15-20 HRs in a platoon role.

  116. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2013 at 10:30 am

    I expect the Yankees name to be in the middle of almost Every single trade rumor and pending free agent signing at the Winter Meetings. “Ding-Dong the witch “ain’t” dead”, is what Hal wants everyone in the Yankee FO proclaiming.

  117. Mottsx December 3rd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Cano will sign for 8/199. Get it done. Yankees win and Cano wins.

  118. tucker December 3rd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Yes, trading Cano, Grandy and maybe Kuroda would have been the smart direction last year. Anybody could see this was not a playoff team in 2013. And they would have restocked the farm.
    But the Yanks mantra is to never retreat wen if it doesn’t benefit the team over the long haul.

    In hindsight, it’s really amazing how epic (in a bad way) last year’s moved were: A fading Ichiro for two years, Youk, Hafner, trading for Wells, letting Martin go because he wanted a two-year deal.

  119. RhapsodyInBlue December 3rd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Their savior in playoffs Papi’s chemist.

  120. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    8 yrs of Cano is a Yankee Death Sentence. Walking The Green Mile with A-Rod has proven that.

  121. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Renegotiating CC’s contract because of opt-out clause was a mistake. Signing a second tier star like Mark to his contract was a mistake. Taking a hard-line approach with Cano is the best option, they should not give in and capitulate to his demands, even if it plays out into late January.

    ——————-

    To me, one of these things is not like the other and that’s Cano lol. Tex and Cano are really hard to compare… but when you consider that the Yankees are trying to offer him $20 million less than the total they paid Tex, I’m sorry but I get why Cano isn’t moving. I know Tex was a bit younger but wasn’t he still like 29??

  122. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Let’s just keep pretending there were a slew of top prospects just there for taking if only they had dealt Cano, Hughes, Kuroda et al. Don’t let the fact that ZERO top prospects weredealt last summer cloud our thinking.

  123. Shame Spencer December 3rd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    In hindsight, it’s really amazing how epic (in a bad way) last year’s moved were: A fading Ichiro for two years, Youk, Hafner, trading for Wells, letting Martin go because he wanted a two-year deal.

    —————–

    It’s too early to make me cry. Mmmm, salty coffee..

  124. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    What’s with Oakland? $ 11 M per for Kazmir and trade for Johnson who might get more in arbitration than Grant Balfour gets thru free agency?

    Movie royalties must be great

  125. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Their savior in playoffs Papi’s chemist.
    ===============
    they don’t get there w/out uehara and tazawa.
    they came from above…

  126. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:44 am

    “Let’s just keep pretending there were a slew of top prospects just there for taking if only they had dealt Cano, Hughes, Kuroda et al. Don’t let the fact that ZERO top prospects weredealt last summer cloud our thinking.”

    There wasn’t a player close to as good as cano traded either…..somebody would have given their top prospect for Cano….almost guarantee it

  127. tucker December 3rd, 2013 at 10:44 am

    86, didn’t have to be top, MLB-ready prospects. Could have been lower-tier prospects. What would the Dodgers have offered to place Cano in the lineup for last year’s playoff run?

    It was a decision more based on marketing/sales than what’s best for the organization, IMO. The Yanks did not want to be perceived as sellers even though the team was clearly not playoff caliber.

  128. Yes You McCann December 3rd, 2013 at 10:46 am

    To me, one of these things is not like the other and that’s Cano lol. Tex and Cano are really hard to compare… but when you consider that the Yankees are trying to offer him $20 million less than the total they paid Tex, I’m sorry but I get why Cano isn’t moving. I know Tex was a bit younger but wasn’t he still like 29??

    _______

    You’re right. Cano does not compare to Mark. Cano is a bona fide superstar.

    Just because the Yankees made a mistake with Teixeira does not mean that Cano should expect as much overall or AAV money as Teixeira. His market will be set by the offers available to him, it’s in the Yankees best interests to not overpay for his services.

  129. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Taking a hard-line approach with Cano is the best option, they should not give in and capitulate to his demands, even if it plays out into late January.

    ——————-
    Whoever wants him can make an offer now for substantially more than our offer, in which case they will most likely get him.

    If they beat us by a little we can top it but he can go back to the other team…sort of like an auction.

    I think if a team wants him badly enough , they will get him..

  130. mick December 3rd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Not seeing other chips ,ellsbury, choo, infante, even grandy, falling until cano deal is done.

  131. JobaTipsHisCap December 3rd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    cano still plays fro yankees next season.

  132. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    There wasn’t a player close to as good as cano traded either…..somebody would have given their top prospect for Cano….almost guarantee it

    ***************************************************************************

    Thanx for validating my point. NO ONE dealt an elite talent because NO ONE was offering up elite prospects and, tucker, NO ONE is trading an elite player for a trio of single-A wannabes.

    Can we get back to debating moves for 2014? Much more interesting than re-hashing every make believe trade that didn’t happen during the 2013 campaign.

  133. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    many of us were in favor of trading cano, grandy and/or hughes last offseason, having failed to extend anybody due to thier tragic ‘no extensions’ policy.

  134. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2013 at 10:54 am

    “Bona fide” superstar that directed his team to “85 wins”? 85 wins doesn’t = the $$$ and length of deal Cano’s Clowns want. It’s a team game, so judge Cano on the performance of the team with him in the lineup. The proof is in that pudding.

  135. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:55 am

    “Thanx for validating my point. NO ONE dealt an elite talent because NO ONE was offering up elite prospects and, tucker, NO ONE is trading an elite player for a trio of single-A wannabes.”

    Or nobody offered elite prospects because nobody was trading an elite player

  136. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 10:55 am

    @msimonespn: A.J. Pierzynski swung at 60% of pitches last season. That was highest rate among batting title qualifiers http://t.co/GA0zXRx15p

    Swinging at everything is usually a sign the end is near

  137. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I don’t agree that signing Teixeira was a mistake.

    He signed prior to the 2009 season and proceeded to hit .292, while leading the American League in HR (39), RBI (122), and Total Bases (344) and helped the Yanks win it all.

    Yes he’s tailed off since. But anyone who is a key to winning a World Series has earned his contract as far as I’m concerned. Damaso Marte included.

  138. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:05 am

    I don’t think signing tex was a mistake either…..however failing to realize he’s not what you thought you were getting is.

  139. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:06 am

    teixeira improved the yankees infield defense immensely. jeter, especially benefitted knowing that anything he threw across was going to be caught and that confidence improved jeter’s game.

    if he comes back healthy (big if i know) and has another good year or two, his contract will have turned out to be a good one.

  140. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 11:06 am

    blake —-

    You’re right, it is a bit of a chicken/egg argument. But to me the fact that no one of significance was moved is an indication that no one was offering up top prospects to see what he could get for them.

    Either way, I’m much more into debating the best move(s) for the future than the worst moves/non-moves of the past.

    *************************************************************************

    The proof is in that pudding.

    I’ve never understood what the hell that cliche’ means

  141. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 11:10 am

    it’s abbr cliche 86, proof of pudding is in the eating, to paraphrase it.

  142. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:11 am

    the met’s couldnt afford phil hughes or marlin byrd because of their bloated $25M payroll….

    we’ve got it alot better than alot of other fans out there…

  143. 86w183 December 3rd, 2013 at 11:12 am

    I knew that, but the re-phrasing of it makes no sense

    “The Proof is in the Pudding” sounds like an excuse for not turning in math homework

  144. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 11:14 am

    I think Cano secretly wants to be a lifelong Mariners.

  145. UpState December 3rd, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Andre Ethier :

    If Cashman is considering talking to LA about AE….the Dodgers better throw in the Corey Seager kid…

    If that’s the package – it’ll be worth it….

    I guess to make it ‘worth it’ we’d have to trade them some goods.

    What pack of goods would get this done ???

  146. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:17 am

    if cano goes to seattle, we’ll see him for 6 games a year and in the ASG and that’s all we’ll hear from him till he retires

    good coffee and alot of really good tattoo artists, though…

  147. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Ethier can’t do anything but hit RHP and he does that much worse than Choo ….dodgers would have to pretty much give him away before Id even consider him

  148. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 11:17 am

    I ate my homework, Mrs…

  149. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:19 am

    its been said before and i believe it, teams inquire about kemp, the dodgers chat for a bit then bring up ethier. the conversation ends there.

    the next day in the media there are reports that another team is discussing ethier.

    the dodgers seem to think that if they keep saying ethier’s name when people want kemp, that they’re creating a market for ethier.

    he’s still a dodger and they’ve been trying to unload him for at least a year now.

  150. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: #Tigers close to signing free-agent closer Joe Nathan, sources tell me and @jonmorosi.

    He gone

  151. Howler December 3rd, 2013 at 11:21 am

    I think Cano secretly wants to be a lifelong Mariners.

    ====================================

    He likes our fishing boats…reminds him of home.

  152. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:26 am

    i think grandy is the forgotten OF right now. he’s dragging his feet hoping someone will rescue him from the mets right about now.

    i think he can be had quickly and at a reasonable price/lenght of contract.

    solid citizen, solid defense, NYS swing…..

    go get him today cash!

  153. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:26 am

    @BNightengale: Brian McCann passes physical and the #Yankees announce that the five-year deal is official.

  154. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Id love Grandy back for the right deal

  155. Cashmoney December 3rd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Yupper howler, Starbucks in hand, Grunge wear, Cano sailing across Puget Sound while reading Nietzche thru a light breeze.

    Cano also knows where they grow the good stuff.

  156. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    @McCulloughSL: “Our work this offseason has just begun,” Hal Steinbrenner says in a release announcing the McCann deal.

  157. blake December 3rd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    @DanBarbarisi: Rare Hal S. statement in McCann press release: “Our work this offseason has just begun, but we feel we have made an important step.”

  158. Ys Guy December 3rd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    i got news for you, they grow the good stuff right up your block in the basement these days…


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