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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The cost of doing business on the free agent market

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ellsbury2
After last night’s fairly late development with Jacoby Ellsbury, I spent part of today reaching out to a few different executives from other teams to get their sense of the signing.

“This surprised a lot of us,” one wrote in an email. “He is a solid player but not worth the length or (money). Has had some health issues that would worry me for (the) length of commitment. Would have looked at other options with shorter commitments.”

Seems to be a fairly common opinion in the wake of such a lengthy and substantial contract with a guy who’s game is based on speed and a guy who’s spent quite a bit of time on the disabled list the past few years. I myself wrote more than once that I didn’t think Ellsbury was a great fit for the Yankees this offseason. I do think Ellsbury is a great player — I was one of only two people who had him on my MVP ballot this year — but I tend to agree that this is a huge amount of money and a substantial long-term risk. Ellsbury is not a safe signing or a bargain signing.

But that’s life on the free agent market.

These days, the safest long-term contracts seem to be the ones signed before a player actually hits the open market, and the only free agent bargains are often the short-term, risk-reward deals with players who have a lot to prove and often limited upside (older players looking for a resurgence, injured players who make a stunning comeback, anonymous players on the verge of a breakout). Signing the big names — especially the big names in their prime — requires a huge commitment of both money and years. That’s almost completely unavoidable.

So, do I think the Ellsbury signing is a good one? I think the Yankees needed to be aggressive to avoid becoming desperate, and I think Ellsbury could be a tremendously valuable player for a long time. All of the negative that comes with him is simply the cost of having to plug holes through free agency.

Associated Press photo

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193 Responses to “The cost of doing business on the free agent market”

  1. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 pm
    so if the posting fee is a mere 20m, doesn’t that mean the AVV for tanaka are likely blow 189 plan into oblivion?

  2. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    Not likely Tanaka gets posted at this point, so…..moot.

  3. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Steve-

    So it takes GGBG for Bailey ?

    If so, then they need to backfill GGBG with either Choo or Beltran.

    Be smart to grab one of them beforehand.

    Not be in need afterwards.

  4. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    I think its time to turn in… Cardboard boxes need to be made tomorrow :)

    Goodnight all

  5. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Sweet dreams Glenn.

  6. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    CC
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Bailey
    Pineda/Nuno/Phelps/Anderson

    Nice rotation.

    Don’t need Tanaka w that.

    :)

  7. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Baseball America ?@BaseballAmerica 1h
    RT @BenBadler Rakuten is obviously opposed to a cap on posting fees, but the expectation is they will still post Masahiro Tanaka.
    ____
    Here’s hoping.

  8. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    @AndrewMarchand

    Been told same thing about $175M max for Cano, but at the end of day I sort of see Yanks adding a $25M team option/$8M buyout & get to $200M

  9. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    ‘Night, chicken!

  10. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    CC, that’s what I am saying. Get it done now!

  11. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Hmmm, Marchard must be reading the Lohud Blog….

  12. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Good night Chicken

  13. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    If Cano signs with the M’s, Jay Z looks like an idiot. Boras knows what he is doing here by offering us Ellsbury early.

  14. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    MTU -

    CF is the Reds’ real need. If I’m the NYY, I explore it while I figure out the Kuroda/Tanaka situation.

    Gardner/Kuroda/Tanaka is preferable.

    Beltran/Kuroda/Bailey is acceptable.

    Choo may be a real overspend and a lost opportunity to add a switchhitter.

  15. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Boras always get the Yankees to bid against themselves and overpay

  16. willwill December 4th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Haters gonna hate, that’s just business. The FA’S next year suck, this is it for the next 2 years now.

  17. pete2 December 4th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    The Yankees revenue potential due to it’s large market and declining attendance and ratings probably has them valuing a W at about 10 million per, so on that basis its not a terrible deal. Cano will also get done at 8/200 or 7/175 with an option year.

    However, the system works best with a mix of young cost controlled players that susbsidize the free agent market value signings. The poor performance of the farm system makes 189 an unachievable dream (at least if you want a competitive team) since it’s core is overloaded with free agent talent.

  18. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    Steve-

    Yup. Makes sense.

    They could get Bailey and maybe Tanaka comes along later.

    Or not.

    Got to have alternatives.

    I also hoping we can do something w the Snakes along the lines of your suggestions.

    Maybe Owings or Davidson.

    That also makes great sense for both sides.

    Other possibility might be to try and take a flyer on Anderson.

    When he’s healthy he’s a stud.

    No idea what Beane would ask for.

  19. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    pete2 -

    True, but since they didn’t do anything FA-wise for a couple of years, this may be an over-buy year to give the FO some time to let the youngsters mature.

  20. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    pete2,

    Exactly….What I proposed was to take a step back ( not competing for 2 seasons ), while restructuring the organization…In that scenario, resetting and going under 189 made sense

  21. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    MTU -

    Be careful what you wish for with Anderson… he’s Maholm.

  22. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    This is a very active OS so far.

    Lot’s of fun.

  23. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    Lefties are nice especially at NYS.

    Either that or you want guys who can keep the ball on the ground.

    Tanaka is certainly that.

    Don’t know Bailey’s rates.

    I think Anderson is way better than Maholm when healthy.

  24. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    MTU -

    Good to see the NYY PR machine is fully wound up tonight… announcing Johnson’s signing, followed by a Beltran denial….

  25. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    MTU -

    Anderson’s numbers are almost identical to Maholm’s. Bailey’s aren’t bad… a few too many fly balls, but he’s used to playing in a band box.

  26. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    If still like to get Beltran in addition to Cano

  27. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    Boras wants to squeeze Jay z…..you know he wants pay back. Jay Z failing to get Cano his big deal with the Yankees would be a mark on the brand he’s trying to create

  28. tucker December 4th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    The Yankees’ offense has been a starved chicken for the past three years. The first feeding since 2009.

    You can’t add young farmhands onto the MLB roster when you trade them away for the likes of Javy Vasquez and Michael Pineda.

    I thin Hal looked at those steep revenue declines and looked ahead to next year’s barren FA market and got a little nervous. At that point, Boras had Hal right where he wanted him.

  29. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    I think Beltran definitely wants to be a Yankee.

    He doesn’t want to be a Royal.

    He has never had a ring.

    Where are his chances better ?

    Just need to get the figures satisfactory to both parties to make it happen.

    He wants 3. We want 2.

    How bout a higher 2 yr. deal w an option for a 3rd with a relatively low buyout ?

    Lot’s of maneuvering going on behind the scenes apparently.

  30. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    blake -

    I’ve maintained all along that an OF that included Beltran and Ellsbury was optimum. Soriano is out after 2014, though he’ll likely be looking to re-up for 2@12ish.

    Gotta have a few switcher hitters in the fold….

  31. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    If the Royals are offering 3/48 and Beltran hasn’t taken that yet then it’s a pretty good sign that he really doesn’t want to go there

  32. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    blake -

    Yesterday’s Ellsbury signing was ALL about firing one across JZ’s bow… direct hit…

    MTU -

    Exactly. Don’t for a second think that Beltran is not “in play”.

  33. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    “I’ve maintained all along that an OF that included Beltran and Ellsbury was optimum. Soriano is out after 2014, though he’ll likely be looking to re-up for 2@12ish.”

    Beltran for 3 years isn’t great but if he was good for 2 of those years it would be ok…..if there is no budget then sign him

  34. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    blake -

    This is “let’s go visit and make our market” week.

    As Chief Dan George once said… “sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t”.

  35. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    Steve-

    Look at Anderson’s numbers from 3 yrs. ago when he was healthy.

    Those aren’t Maholm’s #’s ever.

    The potential is there. It’s the health that hasn’t been.

    That’s my take. I would love a 2nd lefty.

    Maybe I get it w Nuno at the back end. Or Banuelos later in the year.

    There aren’t many relatively young starters being offered up.

    Beane wants to move Anderson because he has a surplus and he has been injury prone.

    Not because he lacks talent.

  36. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    MTU –

    Beltran no more wants to be a Royal than Cano wants to be a Mariner.

    You don’t sign on with Jay-Z to go play in Antarctica.

  37. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    So, one question:

    In what way does Ellsbury signing affects JZ??

  38. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    “Yesterday’s Ellsbury signing was ALL about firing one across JZ’s bow… direct hit”

    Agree from Boras’s side….and from the Yankees it was to push cano…..the yanks paid a premium to so the deal early but I guess they were ok with that .

    Now Boras will hold Choo and keep the yanks in play in case Cano leaves the Yanks…..if he does then he will have Choo there gift wrapped and ready. If cano stays then he will get serious with Detroit or Texas or whoever

  39. Against All Odds December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    since it’s core is overloaded with free agent talent.

    —————–

    True but there is more than one way to build a core. In an ideal world the Yankees would have a mix of kids and free agents but due to the farm not performing well they either wait and build or spend.

  40. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    MTU -

    I don’t disagree re: Anderson, but the risk may not be worth it. May have similar on the roster already.

  41. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    “In what way does Ellsbury signing affects JZ??”

    It reduces their leverage with the Yankees….

  42. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    blake & luis -

    You don’t think Hal agreed to do Ellsbury now with the proviso that Choo is done later? Of course.

    luis -

    Boras was showing Cano that HE gets max dollars for his clients, not Jay-Z.

  43. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    OK Steve.

    That I can agree with.

    What about something w the Snakes ?

    Still feeling that ?

  44. Gish December 4th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    What Beltran and Cano want is money. If Beltran can get a third or fourth year, he’ll take it, from whoever gives it to him. If the Mariners want to pay Cano significantly more than the Yanks, he’s going to be a Mariner.

  45. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Rumors that Grandy and Mets have a deal….none of the mainstream guys are confirming it yet

  46. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    MTU -

    Infield-farm needs to be rebuilt. Nothing there in Yankeeland.

    Plenty of assets though, that are attractive to D’backs and Cubs. Good match all around.

  47. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    “You don’t think Hal agreed to do Ellsbury now with the proviso that Choo is done later? Of course.”

    Well I don’t think Choo is in play for the Yanks unless cano leaves….

  48. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    Blake-

    Not surprised.

    There was a ton of smoke on that one.

    Best of luck to him. I like the guy a lot.

    :)

  49. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    If Detroit or another team starts throwing crazy numbers out there and Choo signs soon then the Yanks are screwed. Beltran could be gone soon also. That’s why it’s important that Cano’s agent starts to get serious. The Yanks can’t wait forever.

  50. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Gish -

    No, Beltran wants to play in the AL and get a ring. He wants at least two years to build his HOF resume. He is making money that he will never spend.

    Cano wants to be a rock star. No rock stars in Siberia.

  51. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    Mich state looks dead…..go heels

  52. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    Beltran is a HOFer for me if he retires tomorrow

  53. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    blake -

    Agreed re: Choo. Not a great fit in NY, offensively or defensively.

    He’d be a great fit in Seattle, culturally and other wise.

  54. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Ok, I get that…But doesn’t the overpay for Ellsbury hurt the chances of Cano signing with the Yankees?…I mean, If Ellsbury is worth 21.8, how much does Cano is worth?…Isn’t a bit risky for the Yankees to play that hand and make Cano feel unapreciated?

  55. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I don’t think that Boras is going to sit around and wait for Cano. When a team starts getting serious and gets to big numbers he moves. I think that most of these guys will sign right around the winter meetings.

  56. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    Clutch -

    Patience… it’s a process.

  57. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    I think Choo would fit great with the Yanks but they aren’t gonna sign both he and Cano…..I’m hoping they sign Cano though and Choo if not him. They need one of them

  58. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Luis-

    Cano can still get 25 per.

    He isn’t getting more no matter what. With or w/o JE being in the picture.

    Except maybe from someone desperate like Seattle.

    That is a ton of love.

  59. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    Clutch -

    Wrong. Boras is notorious for waiting out the market.

    The Tigers desperately want Choo; the Mariners desperately want SOMEBODY.

    Cano wants to be in NY, not Siberia.

  60. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    The Mariners somebody might be price…..

  61. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    blake -

    We can agree to disagree (again) re: Choo. Bad fit in NY. Can’t hit lefties and can’t field.

  62. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Blake-

    That would be how I would cast my vote.

    Cano 1st or failing that Choo.

  63. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    blake -

    Mariners are figuring out that no FA will go there. They have to rebuild their mojo via trades first.

    Not dumb, but they should’ve realized it two years ago.

  64. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    MTU,

    If I were Cano and see the deal they made, I am sure I would want more…Or at least would feel that they are not appreciating me…Like Pettitte felt when he went to the Astros…Or Jeter wanting a better deal than Burnett

  65. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    wanzies222 says:
    December 4, 2013 at 10:51 pm
    blake -

    We can agree to disagree (again) re: Choo. Bad fit in NY. Can’t hit lefties and can’t field.

    Can’t hit lefties but still walks against them…..and YS RF is tiny. He’s not perfect but he jus murders RHP

  66. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    I’m thinking Tanaka will get posted. After all, who else is going to give that team $20MM? Does one player bring in that much revenue to a Japanese team? There’s no cost basis here. It’s all profit for the team. They just need to get their head around the realization that they ain’t getting $60MM.

    Here’s the real kicker though. Of all the possible scenarios out there to get Tanaka to the Yanks, the one we end up with gives the Yanks clearly their best chance of closing this deal. Under the old system, it’s a blind bid and the Yanks have no way of knowing who’s bidding and how aggressive they’ll be. A mis-read (or an inability to guess right) equals a fail. Lots of randomness there. With a fixed posting fee and a tie going to the weakest team, the Yanks are def out. With a fixed posting fee and a tie decided by the player without negotiating salary, the Yanks are dependent upon their brand (good) and the New York quality of life (very bad). Not such a good proposition with a low posting threshold and a bunch of West Coast players who can promise great weather. No, this system, virtual free agency, is by far the best for the Yanks. It allows them to use their brand plus their most powerful competitive advantage: Cash.

    So lets not screw this up. Reel this baby in.

  67. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Time to part company soon.

    Great chess game going on.

    Like the Yankees moves so far.

    Need to run to checkmate though.

    I’m hoping that’s coming.

    :)

  68. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Mariners are figuring out that no FA will go there. They have to rebuild their mojo via trades first.”

    Yup….they have two options 1) trade 2) really outbid everyone by a ton on a free agent the way Washington did with Werth.

    Theh either have to trade for Kemp or Price or both…..or they offer Cano so much money that he can’t say no.

  69. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    GN MTU

  70. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    luis -

    Ellsbury wasn’t an overpay. Willing buyer, willing seller in a negotiated market. It is what it is.

    Cano is not related to Ellsbury in any way other than they will be teammates next year.

    Yankees have too many holes and apparently learned about snoozing and losing last year (Martin, anyone?).

  71. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    “Here’s the real kicker though. Of all the possible scenarios out there to get Tanaka to the Yanks, the one we end up with gives the Yanks clearly their best chance of closing this deal. ”

    Unfortunately it’s also the one that he will cost the most in the contract though…..he could get 100 million as a true FA .

  72. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Best solution is sign Cano (at the right price which is absolutely no more than 7) and let Almonte and Ichiro platoon in RF. Ichiro hits lefties pretty darn good.

  73. Against All Odds December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:47 pm
    Ok, I get that…But doesn’t the overpay for Ellsbury hurt the chances of Cano signing with the Yankees?…

    —————–

    True but I think the Yankees will still end up paying Cano more than reports say they will.

  74. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Heels always play well against Izzo …..too bad they lose to UAB

  75. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    bigdan22 says:
    December 4, 2013 at 10:57 pm
    Best solution is sign Cano (at the right price which is absolutely no more than 7) and let Almonte and Ichiro platoon in RF. Ichiro hits lefties pretty darn good.

    Sign cano and trade Ichiro and get Beltran or Hart

  76. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    bigdan -

    Agree. I said earlier that the have-nots were running the risk of interfering with the free market system and their “reward” might be that Tanaka would not be posted at all.

    Hopefully that is not the case. If the market is allowed to flow, it will take care of itself.

  77. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Luis-

    25 Mil is top dollar and is more than just about anyone on the Yankees makes.

    And more than Ellsbury by 4 mill per.

    He isn’t going to get more from the Yankees.

    If he wants to try he’d better keep talking w the M’s.

    25 per makes him one of the highest paid players in the game.

    If that isn’t enough I wish him luck.

  78. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 pm
    “Here’s the real kicker though. Of all the possible scenarios out there to get Tanaka to the Yanks, the one we end up with gives the Yanks clearly their best chance of closing this deal. ”

    Unfortunately it’s also the one that he will cost the most in the contract though…..he could get 100 million as a true FA .

    _____

    I’m thinking 6/100. Get it done. Will be a bargain compared to CC.

  79. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    luis -

    History tells us that the truth about what the Yankees FO is thinking NEVER is revealed in the “leaks” that come out. They are the best at clandestine ops.

  80. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    Steve,

    I guess we disagree here… 21.8 mil for me is anchor type player money… I don’t think Ellsbury is worth that much ( 18 mil per at best IMO )… Cano OTOH is an anchor type ballplayer… I do think he will want more money…That’s human nature…Hence my concern that he may walk after all

  81. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    I think the contract bidding for Tanaka will be really interesting…..

  82. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    Sign cano and trade Ichiro and get Beltran or Hart.

    Def not Old Man Beltran, but if Hart is healthy enough to play the field (please, no DH guys-that’s Jeter’s job!) I’m down with that.

    Don’t know how you can trade Ichiro tho.

  83. Gish December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    wanzies222 – This is wishful thinking, and you’re making it up or parroting it to feel good about the Yankees’ chances to sign them. There is no chance Beltran turns down a year or two at 14-16 million per just to play with the Yankees. No way. Watch and see.

    Same with Cano. If coming back to the Yankees includes leaving 30 million or more on the table, in an actual contract offer from the Mariners or whoever (not just speculation), then say goodbye to him. Robinson Cano likes money. Cashman has said this himself. It is common knowledge. Tell yourself all you like that he wants to stay a Yankee, but he will go where the money takes him. Period.

  84. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    You guys miss the point.

    Tanaka can negotiate w anyone at the max bid.

    It’s not like the Yankees just waltz in.

    They’ll have plenty of competition.

    And plenty of teams with big pockets.

    It won’t be that easy to blow people away.

    And even if you could you have to ask if Tanaka is worth that kind of risk ?

    The price has just risen significantly as he is now just like any FA.

  85. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    Convince the mets that Ichiro will sell tickets

  86. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    luis -

    I understand your concerns, but the reality is that Cano (I won’t say “won’t”) didn’t sign on with Jay-Z to be in Seattle or East Bum-F*ck.

    It’s about NY. Always has been.

    He’ll get his coin… it won’t be more than 27@7 IMO. Probably with an 8th vesting.

  87. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    MTU,

    I agree that 25 mil is plenty enough…But human nature is a b… That’s my concern

  88. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    @DaggumRoy: See boys, them timeouts aint worth a squirt.

  89. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Gish -

    We will agree to disagree. On both.

  90. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    Luis-

    That is up to him.

    I don’t see the need for the Yankees to any higher.

    If he thinks more money in Seattle is better he should go for it.

    We will miss him but he can be backfilled decently.

  91. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    Actually I was wrong speaking of Tanaka in the context of his team generating $20MM in revenue with him on the field. A good business needs to generate ten times that or $200MM in revenue to net $20MM in profit. A Tanaka sale is pure profit. Can’t imagine them passing that up.

  92. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    I would have to think that the Yanks discussed that if they give Ellsbury $153m they have to go to $200m for Cano. I doubt that they are stupid to think they will only offer Cano $10m more. So either they know that Cano is gone or they are prepared to up the offer to $200m to get a deal done.

  93. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    Clearly the smart thing for Cano is to deal a bit then take the Yanks’ offer.

    Problem is, humans often don’t do the smart thing. There’s a ton of ego going on here. This is where you need a real good counselor or adviser. I think Boras is pretty good at that. He really tries to get into his client’s heads. Shame he’s not helping Robbie now.

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock December 4th, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Yankeefeminista,

    Thanks for posting the WSJ link on Yanks’ finances:

    “Proceeds from ticket sales and stadium suite licenses alone totaled $295 million through Sept. 30 this year, according to public records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. That is down from $353 million in 2012, $377 million in 2011 and $384 million in 2010, the records show.”

    We’ve been discussing this in the abstract all along, but the article clearly shows what has motivated what appears to be a spending spree.

    So for the folks here who have been saying “it’s not your money,” re 189: that article makes it pretty clear that it, um, is.

    Like many others (read the threads about STH giving up their tix on NYYFans), I withheld my money out of protest against how the Yankees have conducted themselves, and guess what? Not having my money cost the Yankees money, because I wasn’t buying their product any more, because their product was unacceptable.

    So much for the idea that the fan is powerless and should know his place, keep his eyes lowered, and sing hymns to Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner and “eat his gruel” in gratitude.

  95. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Luis-

    Good talking w you amigo.

    Stay safe.

    See the rest of you manana.

    It’s been a pleasure.

    :)

  96. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    The Yanks need to look deep too. Winning contractual battles is not their goal. Winning world championships is. If they have some doubts about Cano in relation to the alternatives, fine, stick to your guns and let this play out. But if they really think Cano belongs in Monument Park, they need to send a very private msg that if Cano blinks, they’ll blink as well.

  97. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    Take care MTU…Likewise, have a good one…I am turning in too…Good night all

    Primo,

    Take care ;)

  98. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    Tar Heels!!!

  99. Tar December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    Blake

    well that game was fun to watch :D

  100. Pat M. December 4th, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    wanzies222. I also think Cano wants to somehow return to The Yanks without giving the perception of crawling back. Cano needs to put aside the ego and tell his handlers to get the best deal out of the Yanks and forget the A-Rod numbers. I always felt that 200 million is the magic number but 8 years is just too long. As for Ellsbury this is about the gap in the Yanks outfielder for the years that lie ahead. As SJ pointed out earlier, just as Jacoby begins to slide the Yanks simply slide in a Mike Trout

  101. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    Steve,

    Missed your last post….Your take about Cano contract seem reasonable….I hope you are right

  102. Tar December 4th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    I love that they act like it was really no big deal.

    Beat the number 1 team on the road… no big deal.

  103. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Pat M,

    Ellsbury is no Mike Trout….But what do I know right? Good night

  104. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    Forgot the emoticon after ? ;)

  105. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    Ok it’s settled. Cano comes back. Joins McCann and Ells and the rest of the crew.

    Wait a minute, Isn’t this team a little too left-hand-centric?

    Nunie come on down!!!

  106. luis December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Bigdan,

    They still need a RH DH ;) … I don’t think Nunie is anymore on the Yankees plans

  107. yankinvegas December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    I hope and think we will sign Cano. If not, the season starts on April 1 in Houston and there will be a quality big leaguer playing 2b for the Yankees. Cano’s offensive production will be replaced elsewhere on the diamond.
    I think that the front office is really down on Cano. I think they were shocked and disappointed by his dismal performance in the 2012 postseason and didn’t see enough things last year to erase that picture from their memory.
    I think that they perceive Cano as a numbers guy – obsessed with his own stats and with his salary. The fact that his people told the Yankees it would take 310 million for him to forego free agency was poison to the Yankees. And the fact that we are 2 months removed from the end of the season and the last number you heard connected to Cano’s people was 250-260 million for 9 years.
    The Yankees are looking at this and seeing a player who has never led the league in anything and whose egregious lack of hustle, while mostly cosmetic, reflects poorly on the organization.
    They look 250 miles north and see a player at the same position who doesn’t have nearly Cano’s overall tools but is beloved by the national media and whose undeniable hustle, while largely cosmetic, endears him to his fanbase in a way that Cano has never connected. Plus the fact that he gave his team a sweetheart discounted deal while Cano is demanding that the Yankees pay him basically almost 2 1/2 times that amount.
    It doesn’t sit well with the Yankees, and it shouldn’t.
    Hopefully it all will be overcome within the next couple of weeks and he will be back.

  108. bartap December 4th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    who’s = who is
    whose = possessive tense

    Please.

  109. PRDENTIST December 4th, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Where are all those who screamed that the Yankees are too old and need to get younger? It seems like the same people are begging for a 37 year old to play the OF for 3 years at 16 million a year no less. Crazy!!!!

  110. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    I really don’t know if you are right yankinvegas with your overall take, but I do agree with your point about Cano’s cosmetic yet egregious lack of hustle. It does reflect poorly on the organization. We’re talking about an organization that for better or worse, won’t sign a player with a beard.

    Makes you wonder where was the locker room leadership hear. This is the kind of thing Joe (Torre) was good at.

  111. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    Luis, Nunie is like the Phoenix. He will rise again!

    He’s like the Terminator “I’ll be back”

    He’s like MacArthur “I shall return”

  112. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    I don’t know about you guys, but I’m looking forward to the news conference next week when Ellsbury puts on his Yankee jersey.

    In that vein, can somebody please photoshop out his uniform in all these posted pics?

  113. Pat M. December 4th, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    luis. I didn’t imply that Jacoby Ellsbury was Mike Trout, my point is that there’s no real outfielders to be had for a while via the Free Agent route and that by the time Ellsbury begins to show wear Trout will be available. Also, Texeria and A-Rod will gone as well. Ellsbury signng has become a very touchy topic here. If you like the signing it means your against Cano. Reminds me of the divide that occurred when they traded away Montero. All I know is that The Yanks are better today than they were 48 hours ago

  114. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    Ichiro:

    May not sell YS seats….but keeps the Japanese market abuzz….may be a big help with the wooing of Tanaka (if it is in fact – players choice)

    Cano:

    7 for 182.
    I’m guessing he won’t have time to spend it all.
    Whatever it becomes – if he feels insulted…..”Forget You” (no singing necessary)
    …but the die has been cast….with the bloated original ‘request’ – he’s now in a PR position that the Texas contract put A-Rod in. He won’t be a favorite throughout baseball.
    Beloved by NYY fans – but a target like young A-Rod was.
    The money makes it worth it, though.

    Corey Hart:

    Gotta test those waters; could be a good gamble.
    (Please do proper homework)

  115. David in Cal December 4th, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    “However, the system works best with a mix of young cost controlled players that susbsidize the free agent market value signings”
    I agree. That’s why the McCann signing was unfortunate. Catcher was the one position where the Yanks had a good chance of developing a good, cost0controlled player in the near future. Even the Yanks don’t have enough money to build a championship level team made up solely of expensive free agents. Here’s the math:

    Suppose 8 position players, 4 starting pitchers, and the closer are expensive free agents, paid an average of, say, $20 million. That’s $260 million. Add another $40 million for long-term free agents who are now useless and another $30 million for the rest of the team + expenses. That’s a payroll of $330 million.

  116. Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 11:55 pm

    Wanzies,

    Of your combos the one I like is one you left out:

    Beltran/Tanaka/Bailey

  117. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 12:04 am

    I think that the Yanks know that its all about the money with Cano. It seems like Cashman and the organization are down on him for some reason. In this interview Cashman says about Cano “He loves the money”.

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde....._cano.html

  118. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 12:04 am

    The positives on signing Ells, were the same as signing Damon. Weaken Boston, while at the same time improving the Yankees. A double whammy.
    The Presser tomorrow will be very interesting as long as Hal does some Q And A. Of course, the mystery surrounding whether the Yanks are still making $189 The Prime Directive, remains the primary question. As long as $189 remains in play, Cano is a gone goose.

  119. luis December 5th, 2013 at 12:05 am

    Pat M,

    Just read your response…I was joking basically…I don’t think there is a divide with Ellsbury…In my case, I just think he was overpaid and this could impact Cano’s negotiations… I honestly don’t think he is such a big upgrade, at least not after the price we paid for him… Again, I hope you are right and I am wrong about this, since it would mean we will have a very good addition for years to come..I just don’t see it…Also and most importantly ( at least in my case ) I don’t think those that like the signing are Cano haters or viceversa…

    As for Trout…I think the Angels will extend him at some point, so I don’t think he will be available…At least until his prime years are gone

    Now I am going to bed for real…Long day ahead…Have a good one ;)

  120. UpState December 5th, 2013 at 12:13 am

    Trout:

    Good chance he WON’T sign an extension & hit the market.

  121. bardos December 5th, 2013 at 12:18 am

    The cost of doing business that all teams share and are forced to deal with is the obligation to pay out contracts for the “dead years” of a player’s career. All teams are forced to pay this “tax” and carry dead wood for a while. This creates a sub-market of trades to free up resources and dump bad contracts.

  122. Giuseppe Franco December 5th, 2013 at 12:19 am

    The problem with that strategy regarding Trout is that elite ballplayers like him nowadays don’t hit the free agent market in their prime years like they once did.

    They usually aren’t available until they are on the wrong side of 30 or their skills have begun to decline.

  123. Pat M. December 5th, 2013 at 12:23 am

    Senior Franco. I think SJ was just adding some humor and levity to offset the polarization that seems to be sweeping over the Yankee Universe with the Ellsbury signing

  124. Yes You McCann December 5th, 2013 at 12:23 am

    Why is there a good chance Trout will hit the market? Did Moreno suddenly run out of money?

  125. UpState December 5th, 2013 at 12:45 am

    Trout:

    More ‘heavy’ contracts with Angels.
    Will try to schmooze him into a ‘hometown discount’….after seeing what FA has brought recently, I’m sure his agent(s) will rec’mend testing the lucrative waters.

    No one (except maybe the Mets) has run out of money….may run out of guts; but not money.

  126. jacksquat December 5th, 2013 at 12:47 am

    The 2009 team payrolls for the 12 NPB teams ranged from $45 mil down to 17 mil. The Rakuten Golden Eagles were 11th at 21 mil. It’s pretty safe to assume those payrolls haven’t increased a lot given Japans economy recently.

    So I find it hard to believe any Japanese team would scoff at 20 mil. If they don’t post Tanaka it would be extremely spiteful.

  127. Giuseppe Franco December 5th, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Pat M. December 5th, 2013 at 12:23 am

    Senior Franco. I think SJ was just adding some humor and levity to offset the polarization that seems to be sweeping over the Yankee Universe with the Ellsbury signing

    ——

    Gotcha. I guess that one flew way over my head.

  128. Pat M. December 5th, 2013 at 1:17 am

    Doesn’t Rosey from Seattle still pot here anymore ????

  129. LGY December 5th, 2013 at 1:23 am

    $150M for Ellsbury or $56M for Swisher?

  130. Pat M. December 5th, 2013 at 1:35 am

    Swisher is 14 million for 4 more seasons and he’ll be 38 when the deal matures. I’ll go with Ellsbury, younger and is the better ballplayer and both deals expire with the gfuys being the same age…Or there abouts

  131. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 6:00 am

    Glad Ellsbury is here but he would have got 5/100 from me no more, if he said no so be it….

  132. blake December 5th, 2013 at 6:54 am

    “Luis, Nunie is like the Phoenix. He will rise again!”

    Then throw the ball into the stands

  133. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Yanksinvegas,

    Your earlier post about the Yankees seemingly being down on Cano is echoed in this morning’s Star Ledger in a column by Steve Politi. I am asking myself the same questions.

    Cano may not put fannies in the seats, but I have to think that not signing him will definitely sour the mood of many fans and NOT having Cano will keep at least some seats empty. It’s all about keeping one of our own, who just happens to be the best 2b out there right now. And why is it okay for non-Yankee free agents to be all about the money, but not for Yankees free agents to be the same? I’m trying to think positive in this, and that in the next week or so they will agree on terms. But if another team swoops in with a more, ahem, “respectful” or flattering offer, Cano will be gone.

  134. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:28 am

    Good morning Blake and Doreen

    Well there might be some good news Seattle might be backing away from giving Robinson Cano a huge contract and instead look to sign two players

  135. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:29 am

    One thought is the Mariners aren’t against spending big money, but they would prefer two players instead of one. That could lead them to signing free agents Shin-Soo Choo and Kendry Morales.

  136. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:30 am

    Here’s the link from the NY Post

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/05/m.....big-bucks/

  137. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Yankee Trader,

    That would be good news. Why the change of heart, do you think? Do you think they sensed hesitation in Cano? Or do you think they realized one player wouldn’t make enough difference, and he money wouldn’t be well spent, or rather, could be better spent?

  138. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:37 am

    Doreen
    I don’t know it could be pure speculation.

    Joel Sherman reported that the Mariners were ready to give Ellsbury a nine-year deal but Ellsbury was less than enthused about going to Seattle.

  139. blake December 5th, 2013 at 7:38 am

    Well there might be some good news Seattle might be backing away from giving Robinson Cano a huge contract and instead look to sign two players”

    He’s not going to Seattle…..If they lose him it’ll be because some team like the Nats jumps in big

  140. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    There was this pretty funny picture posted of Cano in Seattle yesterday

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....n-seattle/

  141. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:43 am

    I personally think that Cano will be signed next week in Orlando, with all of his agents and him present, working the media and crowd.

  142. blake December 5th, 2013 at 7:44 am

    Funny pic…..yanks got a lot of work to do though to pop those champagne bottles

  143. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:45 am

    Need some clarification. If the Yankees go over the one 189 threshold can they reset the luxury tax back to 17.5% the following year by staying under?

  144. Mottsx December 5th, 2013 at 7:50 am

    Cano’s agents won’t all be at the meetings next week jay z will be at the staples center on tour. Guess he could skype. I’m sure boras will be looking for him.

    Hope boras raps to cano “can I get an encore do ya want more”

  145. austinmac December 5th, 2013 at 7:52 am

    YT,

    Yes, they can reset it then.

  146. blake December 5th, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Something Sherman pointed out in his column that I hasn’t really considered is that if they get under that tax then Ellsburys contract is really 153 million and not the tax on top of it that they normally have to pay……so in working dollars to them that 153 may be more like 120 (guessing at the numbers but you get the idea)…..do that also may have tempted them to go a little higher to secure him now

  147. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Thanks Austinmac. There was a lot of news last night about the Yankees revenue how much they have lost over the last three years since they moved into the new stadium.

    And I see Joel Sherman on MLB TV last night still saying that the Yankees could recoup hundred million dollars through the revenue disqualification program if they stay under the threshold for all three years.

    At projected number has since been significantly reduced to about $30 million.

  148. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 7:59 am

    Glad Ellsbury is here but he would have got 5/100 from me no more, if he said no so be it….

    ===============================

    Turns out the Red Sox stopped at 5/$80M, which means they obviously didn’t care much whether he departed or not. As Sherman indicates in his piece, it appears the Yankees were bidding against the Mariners.

  149. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Blake

    Can you explain that again I’m a little slow this morning

  150. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    I think it’ll be very difficult to stay under in 2015…..Arods money will be back . It’s pretty much now or never if they want to get under

  151. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:02 am

    Need some clarification. If the Yankees go over the one 189 threshold can they reset the luxury tax back to 17.5% the following year by staying under?

    ====================================

    You mean can they reset the number by getting under in the 2015 season rather than the season upcoming? Yes in theory. In practice, the mathematics don’t favor the likelihood of that happening though.

  152. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    AAA
    Yes I found out that the % would be 17.5% in 2015. Do you feel the math won’t work because ARod and his AAV of 27.5M +the 6 million bonus will be back on the books in 2015?

  153. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:08 am

    I see Blake typed that while I was working on my question about 2015

  154. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Yankee Trader says:
    December 5, 2013 at 8:00 am
    Blake

    Can you explain that again I’m a little slow this morning

    Normally on contracts they really aren’t paying the actual amount once you include the luxury tax they pay on top of it all…..they pay more…..so if they don’t have to pay the luxury tax then their payroll is actually what the number is and not plus a percentage more.

    Just another factor in why maybe they spent a little more on Jacoby .

  155. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 8:14 am

    I watched some of Ellsbury’s highlights, what stood out to me was how much easy power Ellsbury has, but aside from 11 the man had never more than single digit homeruns. The ball travels when he squares it up.

  156. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:15 am

    Yes I found out that the % would be 17.5% in 2015. Do you feel the math won’t work because ARod and his AAV of 27.5M +the 6 million bonus will be back on the books in 2015?

    ===================================

    That and the fact that they’re throwing so much long term big money around this offseason. With Rodriguez’s money back on the books next year, you’d have roughly $137.5M for just 6 players (I’m assuming Cano is back at $25, Rodriguez, Ellsbury, McCann, Teixeira and Sabathia). Factor in the auto money for benefits and such and you’re at $149M and still 6 players. $2M for Ryan makes it $151M and 7 players. Obviously that leaves a lot of spots to be filled and pretty short money to do it with. So, if they don’t make it this year, I don’t see them making it at all during the current CBA which expires after the 2016 season.

  157. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Let’s look at this possible scenario.
    Kuroda comes back for 16M
    Cano also resigns for AAV of 25
    The Yankees budget in 14m for arbitration and 11M for benefits, and 5M for in season trades plus factor in all of ARods money. I believe they would be close but still under the 189 threshold.

    If correct, will they now wait until Horowitz rules in January, to add another starter ,,pen help, and maybe Reynolds as the right handed platoon at third with Johnson? I’m making the assumption that the Yankees will take the chance the ruling won’t lead to it being overturned thru his likely appeal.

  158. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:18 am

    And I forgot about the $6M bonus for hitting 6 homeruns for Rodriguez, so the number (again assuming Cano is a Yankee) would be $157M for 7 players.

  159. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:21 am

    now this may just be the opposition rationalizing a signing that hurts

    ==============================

    I don’t think it’s that, as it appears the Red Sox were genuinely indifferent to whether Ellsbury returned or not, but it does paint the absolute worst case scenario for the Yankees (read: absolutely everything that could go wrong does), when that is not especially likely.

  160. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    AAA says:
    December 5, 2013 at 8:18 am
    And I forgot about the $6M bonus for hitting 6 homeruns for Rodriguez, so the number (again assuming Cano is a Yankee) would be $157M for 7 players.

    They will cut him before they let him hit those homers IMO

  161. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    I don’t see them making it at all during the current CBA which expires after the 2016 season.
    —–
    Yanks need young players to curb spending, hopefully by 16 they can produce some positional players to offset a bunch 39 years at the back end their respective mega contracts. With YES network needing contention and stars to garner rating and generating huge profit for the yankees. I don’t see Yanks volunteer or even entertain the notions of retooling.

  162. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:27 am

    They will cut him before they let him hit those homers IMO

    ============================

    Yeah, that’s a good possibility. Tough to carry that kind of dead money. Don’t know the mechanics of a buyout, but I think it’s safe to say there won’t be any sort of discount. I wonder whether the CBA allows for the lux tax hit to be spread out over a longer term?

  163. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    @FeinsandNYDN: YES Network just said today’s Ellsbury press conference will be aired live. So perhaps Ellsbury will be there with McCann after all.

  164. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Something Sherman pointed out in his column that I hasn’t really considered is that if they get under that tax then Ellsburys contract is really 153 million and not the tax on top of it that they normally have to pay……so in working dollars to them that 153 may be more like 120 (guessing at the numbers but you get the idea)…..do that also may have tempted them to go a little higher to secure him now
    ———
    .??

    It’s still about 22M/year AAV if they stay under.
    by going over you could look at it as costing the Yankees in 2014, 33M
    Would it help for you to link me to the article to understand where the 120M is coming from?

  165. pat December 5th, 2013 at 8:29 am

    “Just another factor in why maybe they spent a little more on Jacoby .”

    or just someone looking to justify an overpay.

  166. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Yeah, that’s a good possibility. Tough to carry that kind of dead money. Don’t know the mechanics of a buyout, but I think it’s safe to say there won’t be any sort of discount. I wonder whether the CBA allows for the lux tax hit to be spread out over a longer term?”

    I don’t think it does…..it’s basically dead money anyway though so I think they’ll consider it addition by subtraction

  167. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    It’s still about 22M/year AAV if they stay under.
    by going over you could look at it as costing the Yankees in 2014, 33M
    Would it help for you to link me to the article to understand where the 120M is coming from?”

    The 120 I just made up to illustrate the point…..all I’m saying is that if they don have to pay luxury tax then perhaps they’d be willing to pay a little more on the actual contract because there won’t be a tax on top of it……I think it’s a secondary factor in why they gave him that much but still a factor

    @Joelsherman1: Column http://t.co/HkK3KnMkmK Hal is not George, but he still is a Steinbrenner, and so #Yankees are spending big again

  168. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Yanks need young players to curb spending

    ============================

    Yes they do. It’s a lot less expensive to build a championship team, as the Yankees did in the mid to late 90′s than it is to buy one, as the Yankees did in 2009 and are trying to do again. The player development really has to turn around. It’s doubtful there will ever be a Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Williams, Pettitte kind of class, as that’s quite possibly a once in a lifetime group, but they do need a lot more from their system than they’ve been getting the last decade or so.

  169. pat December 5th, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Why not use Sherman math on Cano’s contract instead of Ellsbury.

    They could pay Cano 200 million but factor in the 29 million luxury tax they don’t have to pay for staying under the 189, he would only really cost them 171.

    Quite the bargain considering they could be paying Ellsbury 169 for the same number of years. :wink:

  170. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    Technically ARod is still owed around 114M on his contract.. I don’t see the Yankees paying him to disappear. They apparently have insurance on that contract up to 80%. There’s a possible chance that he’ll be injured again, or the hip condition will deteriorate enough that he might need hip replacement.,in which case the insurance kicks in.

  171. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    I don’t think it does…..it’s basically dead money anyway though so I think they’ll consider it addition by subtraction

    =========================

    Suppose the quicker it’s over the better.

  172. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:39 am

    pat says:
    December 5, 2013 at 8:37 am
    Why not use Sherman math on Cano’s contract instead of Ellsbury

    They should if they mean to get under the tax…..they should pay cano either way now

  173. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Technically ARod is still owed around 114M on his contract.. I don’t see the Yankees paying him to disappear. They apparently have insurance on that contract up to 80%. There’s a possible chance that he’ll be injured again, or the hip condition will deteriorate enough that he might need hip replacement.,in which case the insurance kicks in.

    ===================================

    Which would have a positive impact on the Yankees in terms of actual dollars. However, it does nothing to change the impact of his AAV as it relates to luxury tax calculations.

  174. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Quite the bargain considering they could be paying Ellsbury 169 for the same number of years. ”

    They might as well decline that club option now

  175. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    Of course the way it’s going 8 years from now 21 million might be cheap

  176. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source says deal with NPB on new posting system is “very close.” To get Japanese player, MLB clubs must be willing to pay his team $20M.

  177. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    AAA, the path they on are not sustainable, even if the money is eternal, the talents might not be there on a yearly basis.

  178. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:46 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Luxury tax will apply only to salary, not posting fee. So, #Yankees would be exempt only from $20M if they signed Tanaka. Not good for them.

  179. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:47 am

    I think the yanks are gonna try for one of Kuroda/Tanaka and then go cheap on another starter…..maybe Bartolo !

  180. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Tanaka’s salary will blow 189 out to orbit…Yanks are close to point of no return which is pretty much the only realistic way to have legit championship caliber team in place in 14. Don’t stop now, tag another 70 mil on top of it.

  181. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:50 am

    @mikeaxisa: Tanaka was the best SP option anyway, only now the contract terms will be less favorable. NYY still really needs a young arm like that.

  182. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 8:51 am

    AAA, the path they on are not sustainable, even if the money is eternal, the talents might not be there on a yearly basis.

    ==================================

    With regard to sustainability, I agree it’s probably not, though the Yankees would possibly be an exception to that. Or at least stand a far better chance of being an exception than everyone else.

    With regard to yearly talent, I guess I’d argue that it’s not necessary. These “shopping sprees” are occurring 5 years apart. The millions they doled out in 2008 was not for a one year fix. Let’s not forget that the 5 seasons following that spending yielded a championship, plus two additional appearances in the ALCS. The millions spent this winter will not be a one year fix either.

  183. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Blake

    Thanks for the article , but after reading it and seeing this
    still expect them to go under $189 million,” said one AL executive, whose team was interested in both McCann and Ellsbury. “One reason that Ellsbury was attractive to them is that they are paying him $153 million and that is his cost. In the past, you would have a 40 percent or 50 percent tax on top of that, and so $150 million was more like $210 million.”.

    The 2013 rate is 42.5% over 178M calculated at this years end.

    There was no mention of Ellsbury contract being more like 120M if they stay under. It’s still 22M a year and the LT if they go over will be applied to the total amount although you could blame it on signing ELlsbury that tipped the scales.

    I’m sorry but am I wrong?

  184. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Give me a team that they couldn’t use Tanaka’s service.

  185. 4TrainNorth December 5th, 2013 at 8:54 am

    What do folks think of this Grandy-to-Boston rumor? Or are the Mets still frontrunners?

  186. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:54 am

    I get the hesitation that the yanks will just pay Arod to stay home….but remember this isn’t “Arod” anymore…..he may not even be an alive ghost of Arod when he comes back from this suspension. What are they losing by not having him that they haven’t already lost ? The baggage and distraction may outweigh anything he can still provide on the field……plus I think they can’t stand him and revenge would be forcing him into retirement …..nobody will sign him if they release him

  187. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:54 am

    There’s no guarantee that Tanaka’s Japanese team will even let him leave now.

  188. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    There was no mention of Ellsbury contract being more like 120M if they stay under. It’s still 22M a year and the LT if they go over will be applied to the total amount although you could blame it on signing ELlsbury that tipped the scales.”

    Again I made that number up to illustrate the point…. That’s probably an exaggeration of the savings but I like round numbers

  189. blake December 5th, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Yankee Trader says:
    December 5, 2013 at 8:54 am
    There’s no guarantee that Tanaka’s Japanese team will even let him leave now.

    20 million is like half of their payroll…..

  190. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    I still don’t believe ARod will be released or that a settlement will be reached, UNLESS, there is an adjustment made by MLB that allows the Yankees relief from some of the AAV that would still cost the Yankees more.

  191. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 9:00 am

    AAA, it’s 2-3 years fix, the depreciation curve might just hit this current crop all at once in about 3 years.

  192. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Blake

    Thanks again for linking the article and trying to knock some sense into me.

    If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong. :)

    Just kidding

  193. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    New Post ——>

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