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New posting system could be in place soon

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Tanaka2

This afternoon, Patrick Newman of NPBTracker tweeted a link to a Japanese report saying Nippon Professional Baseball has agreed to a posting system change that limits the amount a Major League team can spend on a posting fee. The limited is reportedly set at $20 million.

At the time, that seemed like incredibly bad news for the Yankees, whose best hope of landing Masahiro Tanaka seemed to be a massive posting fee that would guarantee exclusive negotiating rights.

Now, with new information, the news is still not great for the Yankees, but it’s not quite as bad as it might have been.

According to Joel Sherman and others, the new posting system will include a $20-million limit, but it will also leave negotiations open to any team that’s willing to pay that much. In other words, if the Yankees agree to a maximum posting fee — which they almost certainly will in the case of Tanaka — they at least guarantee themselves a fighting chance to sign Tanaka through a typical offseason negotiation, going up against every other team that bid $20 million.

This is, of course, assuming Tanaka’s team agrees to post him under the current system.

As far as I can tell, the problem for the Yankees is that Tanaka will now get a contract that more closely fits his open-market value. The posting fee will be relatively minimal compared to what it would have been under the previous system, which means Tanaka will likely be able to get a much larger contract for himself as multiple teams bid without the additional weight of a larger positing fee. And assuming the usual rules still apply, that larger contract — unlike the posting fee — will count toward the luxury tax threshold.

Earlier this winter we learned that small-market teams had argued the posting fee should be included in luxury tax considerations, and large-market teams — including the Yankees — had argued otherwise. In a way, I guess this is sort of the middle ground.

This new posting system seems to complicate things in regard to the Yankees $189-million goal, but then again, the Yankees haven’t exactly acted like a team that’s overly concerned about making absolutely sure it reaches that number.

Associated Press photo

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257 Responses to “New posting system could be in place soon”

  1. Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    The Yanks still need a right fielder, unless of course, you are under the misguided notion that they will enter the year with Ichiro Suzuki and his .297 on-base percentage there.

    The assumption is that Brett Gardner will slide over to left, while Alfonso Soriano takes over as a full-time designated hitter, something he has said in the past that he is opposed to.

    Not to mention the Yanks are an aging team. They like to use the DH as a way to give guys like Derek Jeter, Mark Teixeira or even Alex Rodriguez a break in the field.

    Don’t be surprised if you start to hear Gardner’s name bandied about next week at the Winter Meetings.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....0387.story

  2. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    the more I think about it the more I think the NYY will be the landing spot for Cano, not really going out on a limb here but it will happen…goodbye 189…OF,IF & C will be set need to bring in 2 SPers and reset the BP

  3. Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    I think Cano and Beltran never stopped being their top 2 targets after McCann.

  4. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 6:54 pm
    The Yanks still need a right fielder, unless of course, you are under the misguided notion that they will enter the year with Ichiro Suzuki and his .297 on-base percentage there.

    The assumption is that Brett Gardner will slide over to left, while Alfonso Soriano takes over as a full-time designated hitter, something he has said in the past that he is opposed to.

    Not to mention the Yanks are an aging team. They like to use the DH as a way to give guys like Derek Jeter, Mark Teixeira or even Alex Rodriguez a break in the field.

    Don’t be surprised if you start to hear Gardner’s name bandied about next week at the Winter Meetings.
    —————————————
    was thinking that myself but if Cano signs the OF just might be what it is in RF…LF they can’t trade this guy fast enough for me

  5. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    Just another reporters opinion…everyones an expert this time of year.

  6. Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Joeman if he gets traded and you have a P.O. Box I will send you a nice cigar.

  7. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Cano isn’t going anywhere IMO ….

  8. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Howler December 4th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    What was your arm like the next day Giuseppe

    —–

    It was definitely sore but I’m a big believer in stretching, and as a result, I’ve really improved my flexibility (not only in my shoulder, but everywhere else, especially my legs.)

    So I’m convinced that flexibility really made a huge difference in both arm strength and durability.

    And believe it or not, I did it with a torn rotator cuff because I was stupid and got too aggressive with bench presses.

    The rotator cuff issue and the stiffness that came with it was the primary reason I started stretching my shoulder regularly.

  9. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    “Don’t be surprised if you start to hear Gardner’s name bandied about next week at the Winter Meetings.”

    There is no news there.

    That is rather obvious considering they just got Ellsbury.

  10. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Thanks, mac and chicken.

    It might have been a fast gun, but I won’t tell my children and grandchildren that. :)

  11. Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    MTU,

    Which teams will be in on him you think? I think Mariners, Giants, Athletics, maybe Padres.

  12. Sweet Swinging Cano December 4th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Someone mentioned in one of the other threads, the Yankees don’t develop, get used to it. Well they used to. This front office has not. But that clearly doesn’t mean they should spend like drunk sailors. How many times do they need to get burned? I know it is NY and you can’t rebuild, but it boggles my mind. I wish they made a play for Puig and Darvish. But it didn’t happen and it is what it is.

  13. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Absolutely Bret.

    But remember listening is different than actually trading.

    Guess it depends on what they hear.

    ;)

  14. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Heard same RT @JeffPassan: In MLB’s proposal, $20M maximum posting fee. In case of tie, player free to sign with any team with top bid.

  15. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Bret-

    The Reds too.

    ;)

  16. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Soriano and Ichiro might share some time in RF and Soriano some days at DH.

    Soriano played LF better than I expected.

    Bret-they need to focus on Cano and their pitching first

  17. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    I think the Reds will ask about Gardner

  18. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Joeman-

    I already said that.

    ;)

  19. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    love to somehow get Todd Frazier here although it would never happen

  20. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    Sometimes you have to believe what the Yanks and Cashman say. They’ve come right out and said they are not looking for a SS and they are not. It’s been reported that they’ve said they are not trading Gardner. I don’t think that was on the record or for attribution but I bet when they get around to publically announcing Ellsbury, Cash will say something like that.

    Too bad. I was hoping they’d be converting Nunie to CF :)

  21. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: On proposed revisions to posting system: Teams that tie for maximum bid all could compete for player as if he is a free agent.

    So ????

  22. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
    Joeman-

    I already said that.
    ———————————-
    I said it yesterday so there

  23. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    My emoticon didn’t work

  24. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    The Yankees will be listening on GGBG for sure.

    Especially w Choo and Beltran still out there to backfill.

  25. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Bret

    Knowing Gardner is going to be a FA, if I’m the opposing GM I’m going to need you to sweeten the pot and your AAA position players or Nunez won’t do it for me.

  26. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Joeman-

    You said a lot of things yesterday.

    Some of which actually came true.

    That’s why I gave you the Bobcat tribute.

    ;)

  27. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:12 pm
    Joeman-

    You said a lot of things yesterday.

    Some of which actually came true.

    That’s why I gave you the Bobcat tribute.
    ——————————
    LMAO

  28. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    Ok, now that Tanaka will be a free agent, here’s something that will fire everyone up. Who’s the Yanks’ highest priority now for spending purposes, him or Cano?

    I think it’s a no brainer. Well almost.

  29. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Joeman-

    You mean you didn’t get that before ?

    :)

  30. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Pat M. December 4th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Senior Franco, just keep playing and the dropoff is not as dramatic. I tore my cuff back in 78 so all I can do for the last 37 years is elbow the ball up there. Be thankful and as you know take a real long time stretching and warming up the arm

    —–

    Yeah, I have no intention of calling it quits.

    I tore my rotator cuff from bench presses in April of 2012 and it still gives me issues. I really have to be careful and press baby weights (no more than 90lbs on the bar).

    The daily aches and pain caused me to put more effort into stretching because I really didn’t want to have it surgically repaired (and stop my daily routine in its tracks to let it heal).

    Aches or no aches, I’m having too much fun to stop anytime soon.

  31. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    cano.

  32. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Dan

    Sign both. Tanaka will put fans in the seats when he pitches.

  33. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    did hear a lot of (can’t swear) about a month ago when I said Kelly Johnson would be a nice add for this team because he can play all over the field…

  34. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    And Cashman has already said as much.

    ;)

  35. Sweet Swinging Cano December 4th, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Tanaka would mean a lot. They should take a chance.

  36. Sweet Swinging Cano December 4th, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    The Irony of my statement, with my screen name.

  37. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Kelly Johnson also can hit lefties. Fill in at 2nd, 3rd and corner OF

  38. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:18 pm
    Kelly Johnson also can hit lefties. Fill in at 2nd, 3rd and corner OF
    ———————————
    some pop in his bat he’s a vg sign

  39. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Cashman:

    Cano is priority 1

    Tanaka 1A

    ;)

  40. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    YT, Cano. But I want both of them.

  41. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    And I would say Kuroda is priority 1C.

  42. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    things are looking up! i like this posting system. i like that tanaka is going to be in-play soon.

    go get ‘em cash!

  43. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    The Yanks need SP more than they need anything right now. I doubt this team could win 80 games with Cano right now. I don’t think Tanaka alone makes them a playoff team but neither does Cano. At present, I think Tanaka would have a larger positive impact. The question is, how will Tanaka fare in the MLs? You know what his stuff is like through scouting but how he performs when he gets here is some doubt.

  44. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Let’s get our Xmas present.

    Tanaka.

    :)

  45. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Now if Kuroda plays in Japan next year, who should the Yankees sign?

    Bret’s in on Jimenez.
    Santana
    Feldman
    Garza
    Maholm
    Others?

  46. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Kuroda and Tanaka.

    Sword and Sheath.

    They go together.

    :)

  47. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    sign Halladay to a minor league deal if he’ll take it and see what he can do.

  48. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    Kuroda is not playing in Japan.

    He’s coming back.

  49. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Now if Kuroda plays in Japan next year, who should the Yankees sign?

    Colon. Love a guy who can throw 36 straight strikes and not get hit.

  50. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Halladay’s arm is shot.

    He won’t do well doing a Jamie Moyer impersonation.

    You can’t live off of a reputation.

  51. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    my brother always says Colon looks like Fred Flintstone…now I can’t get that image out of my head whenever his name comes up.

  52. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Colon would be my choice too.

    But Hiroki is going to take the money.

  53. LGY December 4th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    It’s interesting how people on here view the Yankees as a dynamic championship caliber team on here when saying Cano can go disappear to a non contender.

    Does this board view the Yankees as a championship contending team as currently constructed?

    What about 2-3 years from now with CC and Tex older, KURODA gone, Jeter gone?

    Is the farm system going to curb the decline and retirement of our older productive players?

  54. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    If Tanaka and Garza cost the same in AAV given the new rules do we still want Tanaka? The big benefit to him was going to be a lesser AAV. He’s younger but he’s also completely unproven in MLB

  55. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    yea, he’s probably shot, but worth a minor league deal

  56. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    LGY-

    Do you believe the Yankees should pay Cano 225-250 Mil ?

  57. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    “It’s interesting how people on here view the Yankees as a dynamic championship caliber team on here when saying Cano can go disappear to a non contender.”

    Well the Yankees currently aren’t a contender…..if they add Cano and 2 good pitches though they certainly could be

  58. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    i dont know about ‘guns a-blazing’ but if the mariners really do have a solid offer on the table, the yankees need to roll up their sleves and sit down with cano’s people and hammer this thing out.

    at least cano’s side now feels like there’s a market and might be ready to move for real.

    and the yankees, now having competition might be ready to come off their posturing and media leak game they’ve been doing thus far.

    lets get this done boys!

  59. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    From NoMaas.org

    After the Yankees made it rain casino-style on Jacoby Ells-bury, the club now has ~ $40 million (including player benefits) to spend on 15 more members of the 25-man roster AND the rest of the 40-man roster before they hit the Hal-Cap of $189 million.
    If the bring back Cano at say $25 million, they’d be left with ~ $15 million to spend on 14 remaining members of the 25-man roster AND the rest of the 40-man. Good luck with that.
    If Horowitz upholds the full 211-game ban, that would give the Yankees ~ $25 million in additional leeway before the magic 189. As it stands currently , Arod’s full salary is included on the payroll.
    Now, if Hal decided to throw to trash the $189 million mandate, then we guess it doesn’t matter.

    But, we still don’t know that yet, and we’d imagine Randy Levine is making virgin sacrifices at the altar of arbitration.

  60. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    You don’t have to throw 90. I was talking to Bob Horner years ago about getting in the batting cage while Phil Niekro tossed some knuckleballs that I’d have a chance to hit. He told me I’d have a better chance to make contact vs a fastball pitcher.

    If you want your sons to play in the majors, no matter how tall or athletic they are, have Phil Niekro teach them the knuckleball.

    —-

    Yep, I learned quickly that hitting guys who throw nothing but easy slop are much harder for me to hit than the flamethrowers (relatively speaking, of course).

  61. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    If Tanaka and Garza cost the same in AAV given the new rules do we still want Tanaka? The big benefit to him was going to be a lesser AAV. He’s younger but he’s also completely unproven in MLB

    ———-

    Not a Garza fan so I’ll venture a Yes to still wanting Tanaka

  62. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Sign Cano, Hart, Kuroda, Tanaka or Garza and it’s a good team with a very good and deep lineup and a pretty good staff if CC returns to form

  63. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    LGY
    I don’t see the team staying as currently constructed…it’s early in the postseason and a lot is going to happen between now and ST and middle of the year…how many teams look the same coming out of spring and going into the playoffs…and that even holds more true 2 or 3 years from now…think of the handwringing at the end of last season…and the changes done in the short time so far…some don’t like it, but positive steps have been made.

  64. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Blake-

    I say you post and negotiate with him.

    If his price is out bounds then maybe you move on to a guy like Garza.

    The youth is a huge plus for the right price.

    Garza is a great fallback if he happens to be around.

    Bailey would also be a great alternative.

  65. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    If Tanaka and Garza cost the same in AAV given the new rules do we still want Tanaka?
    ———-
    I still chose Tanaka… Love his age, love the upside… It’s a risk but Garza is nothing special.

  66. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    I’m not a huge garza fan either but he’s at least somewhat of a known commodity……Tanaka at 10-12 AAV I’m all for…..Tanaka at 15 or 16 AAV then I start having some pause because he’s not Darvish and I have no idea what he will be here

  67. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    I was never much of a pitcher, but one thing I did do just for the hell of it was learn how to throw a knuckleball…was fun to fool around with.

  68. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    “Is the farm system going to curb the decline and retirement of our older productive players?”

    Some people can’t see the future when it’s staring them right the face. By this time next year, the rage will be the N & N boys. Nunie and Nuno. Nunie wins the World Series MVP as the Yanks’ SS/Closer while Nuno takes ROY and the Cy.

    Book it.

  69. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    Actually if Tanaka is gonna cost 15 per then I might just sign Feldman and use the difference for something else

  70. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    The gain in attendance will outweigh the dollars sacrificed in 2014 by going over the threshold.

    The Yankees can’t afford to finish out of the playoffs two years in a row.

  71. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Blake-

    I thought you didn’t care about spending money ?

    ;)

  72. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Cashman really needs to try to trade Ichiro somehow

  73. hardwired7 December 4th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    “player free to sign with any team with top bid”

    Free for All, Ted Nugent

  74. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Ichiro + $5M for a ham sandwich?

  75. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    I actually think lefty Kazmir, would have been a good addition

    There’s Bronson Arroyo.

  76. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    All of a sudden Blake has become fiscally responsible.

    Why worry ? 189 is toast.

    :)

  77. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:35 pm
    The gain in attendance will outweigh the dollars sacrificed in 2014 by going over the threshold.

    The Yankees can’t afford to finish out of the playoffs two years in a row.

    Why not…it’s not like they’re going to dry up and float away…if they eventually start to put together a winning team the fans will come back…they did after the early 70′s and the teams of the 80′s…once you start winning again…fans will return…just because you have a couple of down years doesn’t mean the franchise is going to fold…now the Rays might fold, and that might even be if they win the Series.

  78. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    Tanaka will cost a lot more than 15 per. We’ve haven’t a FA with his stuff at his age since . . . .

  79. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    189 is going the way of the DoDo bird.

  80. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    I’d take Tanaka over Garza. More marketable for a larger audience, much bigger upside, less injury concern.

    Garza is more proven but not all that great.

  81. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    I’d rather have Tanaka..bigger upside, although more risk.

  82. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Garza thinks he’s a goat.

    He won’t shave his beard.

    :)

  83. kd December 4th, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    does vernon wells count for 21 million of the 189? since the angels are on the hook for all of that, could they trade him for some sunflower seeds or something?

  84. LGY December 4th, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    MTU says:
    December 4, 2013 at 7:29 pm
    LGY-

    Do you believe the Yankees should pay Cano 225-250 Mil ?

    ———-

    No, but they shouldn’t have signed Ellsbury and possibly McCann if they couldn’t sign Cano to $200M or less.

  85. bigdan22 December 4th, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    The interesting thing with Tanaka is how long would he sign for? Could he get a 10 year deal? And if he could, would he want it?

  86. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    LGY-

    I think they go to 200 but no more.

    That’s why I asked.

    Let’s see exactly how desperate the M’s are.

    They might bid 225-250.

    That would spell real trouble.

  87. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    The angels are on the hook for all but ? Two million of the AAV.

  88. kd December 4th, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    thanks trader

  89. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Wells is basically a freebie.

    So, if they need another roster spot.

    ;)

  90. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Jerkface says:
    December 4, 2013 at 7:39 pm
    I’d take Tanaka over Garza. More marketable for a larger audience, much bigger upside, less injury concern.

    Garza is more proven but not all that great.

    I mean I get it…..but he’s he’s gonna cost a lot then that takes some of the bloom off the Rose for me…..the great thing about him was gonna be an affordable contract

  91. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    c’mon Blake – whats the saying, go big or go home? I’d hate for the Yankees to be kicking themselves later becaused they passed up a stud. On the other hand, I’d hate for the Yankees to be kicking themselves later because they signed another Igawa :)

    Still – Tanaka for me

  92. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    bigdan22 says:
    December 4, 2013 at 7:43 pm
    The interesting thing with Tanaka is how long would he sign for? Could he get a 10 year deal? And if he could, would he want it?

    Nah….there is still too much risk for a team to give him that much. I think 5/85 or 6/100 or something like that is possible though and that’s kinda stuff for a guy that’s never pitched here……of course in real dollars you’re looking at maybe 50 million less in posting though

  93. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Blake-

    The Yankees aren’t worried about the LT threshold it seems so who cares if he costs a bit more.

    He’s a big gamble either way.

    What’s a few more millions in that case.

  94. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    MTU says:
    December 4, 2013 at 7:39 pm
    189 is going the way of the DoDo bird.

    I hope…..if so they should sign Cano, Beltran, and then two pitchers…..

  95. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    yes Blake.

    You squeeze a balloon in one place and it just pops out in another.

    Pick a different spot and the result is the same.

    All the same basic balloon.

  96. Hans Davenport December 4th, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Yankee classics on YES, Reggie’s 3 HR game in the WS Vs. Dodgers.

  97. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    I think they sign Cano, Kuroda, and Tanaka.

    Beltran if he’ll take a 2 yr.

    Or Choo if they ditch GGBG.

    They also need some relief help.

    Maybe Balfour and O’Flaherty.

  98. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    And maybe trade for a young infielder for the present or future.

    ;)

  99. blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Get Beltran or Hart…..need to get Ichiro off the field

  100. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Kd
    It looks like 3M when you look at this spreadsheet for Yankee salaries

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

  101. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Want to see a killer rotation:

    CC
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Bailey
    Tanaka

    or

    CC
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Tanaka
    Pineda

    Or

    CC
    Kuroda
    Nova
    Bailey
    Pineda

  102. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    Get Beltran or Hart…..need to get Ichiro off the field

    ————

    Ichiro to Seattle for some guy named PTBNL.

  103. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    the great thing about him was gonna be an affordable contract

    That was a great thing about him if you are considering the 189 limit. In a ‘Yankees are spending all the money’ scenario I’d want him over Garza 100%

  104. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Blake-

    I don’t think Ichiro is a big part of the Yankees plans.

    At most a platoon guy and 4th OF’er.

  105. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    please ditch Gardner

  106. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    does vernon wells count for 21 million of the 189? since the angels are on the hook for all of that, could they trade him for some sunflower seeds or something?

    Money paid in trades is subtracted from the team acquiring and added to the team sending, so the Angels are on the hook (luxury tax wise) for whatever they pay the Yankees for vernon. The Yankees are on the hook for Vernon’s AAV – amount paid. The angels are believed to have paid enough for it to be 0 in this case.

  107. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    GGBG will be a topic of convo at the WM.

    Depends on what they hear back.

    ;)

  108. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    @pgammo 2m

    Not only are Rakuten Golden Eagles opposed to ever-changing US posting rules, but tonight leaning against posting Tanaka, period.

  109. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    LGY December 4th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Is the farm system going to curb the decline and retirement of our older productive players?

    Unless there is an extremely significant improvement in that area – like now – the answer to that question is hell no.

  110. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    @yakyunightowl 1m

    Last RT: Told you so. Why would a championship team give up their ace for peanuts? No surprise. They won’t.

  111. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    as soon as the signed McCann the 189 was just a number…

  112. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    For example GGBG + Cervelli/Romine + Claiborne might get you something pretty decent.

    ;)

  113. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    I’d be happy with Cano, infante at third, Kuroda and Tanaka, and a lefty in the pen O’Flaherty.

    Any love for Santana (Ervin)or Jimenez

  114. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    @pgammo

    Not only are Rakuten Golden Eagles opposed to ever-changing US posting rules, but tonight leaning against posting Tanaka, period.

  115. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    That was a great thing about him if you are considering the 189 limit. In a ‘Yankees are spending all the money’ scenario I’d want him over Garza 100%”

    Even if they go past 189 there is always a budget….and who is to say if they don’t do it this year they won’t try again next …..Id probably still rather have tanaka too but it’s not nearly as clear cut if he’s making more money

  116. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    Can’t say I blame them.

    Doesn’t really surprise me.

  117. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    If they won’t post him then couldn’t tanaka just retire? I mean multiple millions are at stake for him ……

  118. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Good evening,

    I’ll take Tanaka over Garza 8 days a week…Just by the fact that he is 25 years old and a wider market to appeal to.

  119. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Blake-

    You’re nickel and diming this one too much IMO.

    You said your self the real budget might be closer to 225.

    I don’t think they will try to get under again until the next CBA.

    That’s 2017.

    Why worry. Be happy.

  120. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Brian Costa ?@BrianCostaWSJ 27m
    One thing driving the Yanks’ spending spree: Their ticket revenue plummeted by $58 million this year. Details here: http://online.wsj.com/news/art.....iew_latest

    __
    I haven’t read this yet, but I suspect it is what some of us have been saying. Bottom line is the Yankees have put themselves in a hole with all this $189 fiscal suicide.

  121. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Blake-

    That might have other consequences we don’t understand ?

  122. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Meh…I don’t blame them… It absolutely makes no sense to them…20 mil bucks?…Not enough to warrant losing their ace….He will become available when he becomes a FA…

  123. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    I don’t blame the Japanese team. They were going to post him because they thought they were getting $50m. Now they would be getting a lot less money.

  124. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Hello YF!!,

    We have a brewski date with JAP in NY ;)

  125. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Proceeds from ticket sales and stadium suite licenses alone totaled $295 million through Sept. 30 this year, according to public records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. That is down from $353 million in 2012, $377 million in 2011 and $384 million in 2010, the records show.

    The figures appeared on financial statements the Yankees are required to file with the city to demonstrate their ability to make payments on the bonds used in the construction of Yankee Stadium. Attendance represents just one of the Yankees’ revenue streams, but it highlights the enormity of the financial incentives for the team to make the playoffs.

    People with knowledge of the team’s finances said the drop-off from 2012 is almost entirely a result of the fact that they missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008.

    Had the Yankees failed to reach the playoffs in 2012, their ticket and suite revenues would have been closer to $300 million rather than $353 million, the people said. Similarly, in 2010 and 2011, postseason games accounted for $59 million and $58 million of all such revenues, respectively.

    In other words, a Yankees team that wins 93 games and makes the playoffs brings in about 15% more ticket and suite revenue than a Yankees team that wins 88 games and misses the playoffs. And that is to say nothing of the boost in merchandise and concession sales and next-year ticket sales.

    “What this clearly shows is that the Yankees’ whole financial equation is built around winning,” said Vince Gennaro, author of “Diamond Dollars: The Economics of Winning in Baseball” and a consultant to major-league teams. “If you take that away, they become mere mortals from a financial standpoint.”

    Unsurprising. Also proof that 189 is not the smart plan.

  126. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    If they won’t post him then couldn’t tanaka just retire? I mean multiple millions are at stake for him

    No. As long as a posting agreement is in place the working agreement stops MLB teams from being able to sign NPB players circumventing the system.

  127. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Kelly Johnson played 16 games at 3rd in 13

  128. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    MTU,

    With this new wave of LT contracts they may not be able to reset the tax in 2017 either

  129. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    189 is a great plan if you can still win…..it was always dumb if they can’t

  130. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    c’mon Blake – whats the saying, go big or go home? I’d hate for the Yankees to be kicking themselves later becaused they passed up a stud. On the other hand, I’d hate for the Yankees to be kicking themselves later because they signed another Igawa :)

    Still – Tanaka for me

    ——

    IFA is where this team really needs to be more aggressive.

    Sure, those guys aren’t all going to pan out but those are the risks they desperately need to take when you suck at drafting and developing your own.

    Can’t wait for young superstars to hit free agency because their respective teams are extending them long term.

  131. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Joeman-

    Want a 3b ?

    No problem.

    Lot’s of choices:

    Infante
    Davidson
    Olt

  132. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
    MTU,

    With this new wave of LT contracts they may not be able to reset the tax in 2017 either

    ————–

    That will be under a new CBA. With the small market teams seemingly weilding such a hammer now, who knows what the penalties will be for exceeding the LT threshold? 100% tax and loss of a draft pick? Probably not that bad but could definitely be more severe than now…. Whatever… when some of these small market teams start making a real effort to put a quality team on the field, maybe I’ll shed a tear for them

  133. RhapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    GF

    Hanley Ramirez, Iglesiais, Bogaerts are all IFAs

    I agree, this is where the Yankees have gone to sleep.

  134. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Luis-

    That remains to be seen I guess.

    ;)

  135. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    Yes to a point Blake and JF….Because if they keep “winning”, they won’t be able to draft premier talent either, so they won’t be able to develop the farm…With how the FA market looks going forward and the pool for IFA, IMO at some point they will be in exactly the same position they were after 2013… Not to mention that the FA route hasn’t worked before, at least it won’t bring sustained success..IMO, the right path would have been to reset it now, suck for a couple of seasons and develop a core that would increase you revenue for a decade.

  136. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Thanks JF and YF for bailing me out . I said before the Yankees can’t afford to miss the playoffs two years in a row. While they probably can afford it, the cost in luxury tax and the revenue disqualification dollars would not outweigh the continued drop in incoming revenue.

    In fact didn’t you state the revenue sharing early predictions in returns were probably overinflated?

  137. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    i had a couple of roommies in college, one from guatemala and one from honduras and in the heat of the missouri summer, liked to take turns pitching to one another in the backyard. i mean, full-out, max-effort, sweat flying pitching,. Carlos was a barrel-chested, strong as an ox huge guy who had a full castro beard and he could bring it. I had nothing, no velo, no movement, so i started working on the knuckler, just for fun.
    i got the hang of it pretty good, i couldnt usually get the seams to stop completely, but i’d get a nice tumble and you could see the pitch move pretty well. but i really never could figure out how to throw it for a strike, it could and did end up anywhere except the zone.

  138. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    GF

    Hanley Ramirez, Iglesiais, Bogaerts are all IFAs

    I agree, this is where the Yankees have gone to sleep.

    ——

    They need to get their hands on more productive youngsters somehow, and when their options are so very limited, a far more aggressive approach regarding IFAs is necessary.

    Otherwise, you can’t build a sustainable winner through free agency alone anymore. Those days are long gone.

  139. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    YT, it was timely, and essentially what I was arguing this morning.

    luis, sounds like a plan! Email me your NY sched!

  140. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    In fact didn’t you state the revenue sharing early predictions in returns were probably overinflated?

    Yes. In the end it’d be around 35 million total for all 3 years. They lose that much just by not making the ALDS.

  141. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    Luis-

    I hope you are well.

    The Farm is not dead just yet.

    There is still a large reservoir of talent down there.

    The problem seems to be developing it.

    There is no good reason it cannot bear fruit in the future as is.

    We just have to give some time.

    Examples: Banuelos, J-Ram, Sanchez, etc. and further down even more.

    ;)

  142. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    The Yankees lost 35 million just in normal ticket sales from 2010 to 2012 just from fan disinterest alone. Probably shoulda got Darvish.

  143. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    Jerkface says:
    December 4, 2013 at 8:26 pm
    The Yankees lost 35 million just in normal ticket sales from 2010 to 2012 just from fan disinterest alone. Probably shoulda got Darvish.

    Lets hope they learned from it

  144. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Off to the store before it closes. Still haven’t read up on Tanaka posts. Is he now officially not being posted at all?

  145. mick December 4th, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Fake Peter Gammons ?@FakePeteGammons 22h

    @dubnoxious It’s truly a Shame. See what I did there? Let me know when mick gets bored of what’s left & finally turns on Queen Voldemort.
    Hide conversation

    6:57 PM – 3 Dec 13 · Details
    blake ?@TarYank6 22h

    @FakePeteGammons @dubnoxious come back dude
    ====================================
    Nice.

  146. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Still haven’t read up on Tanaka posts. Is he now officially not being posted at all?

    Rakuten, the only team to vote No on these changes, is considering not posting him because of the price. Its not official (they have all offseason to post him after all and things could change).

  147. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    JF,
    If they won’t post Tanaka can he not just retire and come here anyway? I know that’s frowned upon but it’s a whole bunch of money at stake for him

  148. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    Guess at a Garza contract? Five for $75M.

  149. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    Time for Cashman to bring along Jeter and pay a visit to Cano and his family. Worked with Sabathia.

    Show him the MONEY

  150. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    austinmac says:
    December 4, 2013 at 8:30 pm
    Guess at a Garza contract? Five for $75M.

    There about yea

  151. coney1 December 4th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Peter Gammons ?@pgammo 36m

    Not only are Rakuten Golden Eagles opposed to ever-changing US posting rules, but tonight leaning against posting Tanaka, period.
    Retweeted by David Waldstein

  152. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    @nickcafardo: Matt Kemp is in play for the Red Sox and the Dodgers would eat some money in the right deal. Just a question of whether the Red Sox want to

    Told y’all ….

  153. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    Thanks, JF. Off to the store.

  154. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    If they won’t post Tanaka can he not just retire and come here anyway? I know that’s frowned upon but it’s a whole bunch of money at stake for him

    I said already, the working agreement (aka the posting system) prevents MLB teams from using this loophole. Thats why the posting system was invented in the first place. Once the NPB and MLB agree to the posting system this is not an option.

  155. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    In fact didn’t you state the revenue sharing early predictions in returns were probably overinflated?

    Yes. In the end it’d be around 35 million total for all 3 years. They lose that much just by not making the ALDS.

    —-

    Hard to believe that a spreadsheet and numbers guy like Hal didn’t foresee the obvious when he signed off on their half-assed offseason and roster construction a year ago.

  156. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    Off topic rant: Watching the UVA-Wisconsin game… UVA has arguably the best D in NCAA but cant score at all!!! Why is it so hard to make a layup? A LAYUP!!! I think I’m gonna have an aneurysm!!!

    Ok, I’m done.

    Carry on

  157. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    If they won’t post Tanaka can he not just retire and come here anyway? I know that’s frowned upon but it’s a whole bunch of money at stake for him

    ==================

    They own his rights for another 2 seasons even if he retires.

  158. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    Some very nice comments about Ellsbury from his coach at Oregon in tonight’s NYPost.

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/04/e.....-new-york/

  159. hardwired7 December 4th, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    Suddenly, Rakuten regrets running his arm into the ground at the end of the season.

  160. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    JF,
    Gotcha

  161. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    @nickcafardo: Matt Kemp is in play for the Red Sox and the Dodgers would eat some money in the right deal. Just a question of whether the Red Sox want to

    Told y’all ….

    —-

    And if that happens, advantage Red Sox (since Kemp is the far better player over Ellsbury).

    I usually don’t care what the Red Sox do during the offseason, but I have to admit, getting Kemp would annoy me.

  162. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    I don’t blame them.

    They were getting screwed.

    Why should they agree with it.

  163. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Maybe the Dodgers are going to get some of their money back.

    :)

  164. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Soon we will see Kemp traded to the Sox and then the Dodgers will use that money to sign Cano. The longer he is on the market the worse it is for the Yanks.

  165. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Don’t panic.

    The Sux don’t have squat yet.

    Kemp is going to take a lot unless the Sux are willing to take on a lot of salary.

    They can’t be the only Team interested if the Dodgers are shopping him.

    ;)

  166. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:41 pm
    blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    @nickcafardo: Matt Kemp is in play for the Red Sox and the Dodgers would eat some money in the right deal. Just a question of whether the Red Sox want to

    Told y’all ….

    —-

    And if that happens, advantage Red Sox (since Kemp is the far better player over Ellsbury).

    I usually don’t care what the Red Sox do during the offseason, but I have to admit, getting Kemp would annoy me.
    ————————————
    wouldn’t bother me Kemp is injury prone

  167. pat December 4th, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    ChrisLeible
    Just spoke to @johansantana & he is now up to throwing 150 feet, pain free! So far, so good!

  168. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    Exclusive picture of Cano in Seattle

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....n-seattle/

  169. blake December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    @JeffPassan: One team that has the stuff to get Price: Seattle. And sources said they may be inclined to include Taijuan Walker: http://t.co/RLcwaw5t2n

  170. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    How do you lose when you give up only 48 points in a college basketball game?? By scoring 38, thats how!! You don’t believe me? Ask UVA. Utterly pathetic!!!!

  171. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    joeman December 4th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    wouldn’t bother me Kemp is injury prone

    —–

    LOL…that’s a good one. Kind of like that guy the Yanks just decided to give $150M+ last night.

    I’ve been hearing and reading all day long that Ellsbury can be this and that for the Yanks “if he’s healthy.”

    When the phrase “if he’s healthy” is often used in the same sentence as a player’s name, we’re not exactly talking about someone who could be mistaken for Cal Ripken.

  172. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    The Dodgers are not fire saling Kemp. They will expect good prospects in return. We wouldn’t get Kemp. Free agents are at this time are their only real options except now they can consider Gardner.

  173. luis December 4th, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Kemp>Ellsbury….If the Sox manage to pull this off, they would have improved the CF position…Man I wish the Yankess would operate like them…

  174. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    Kemp is different from Ellsbiry. Kemp has overuse issues. He is more of a risk. By far.

  175. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    If the Sox swap Ellsbury for Kemp and still get LA to eat some of the money on the deal I will be soooooo annoyed.

  176. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
    joeman December 4th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    wouldn’t bother me Kemp is injury prone

    —–

    LOL…that’s a good one. Kind of like that guy the Yanks just decided to give $150M+ last night.

    I’ve been hearing and reading all day long that Ellsbury can be this and that for the Yanks “if he’s healthy.”

    When the phrase “if he’s healthy” is often used in the same sentence as a player’s name, we’re not exactly talking about someone who could be mistaken for Cal Ripken.

    —————

    Joeman – let me beat you to the punch on your response… “Gardner is injury prone too” :)

  177. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Luis-

    Kind of jumping the gun a bit aren’t we ?

    :)

  178. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    No more facial hair…

    @YESNetwork

    .@M_Marakovits w/ Brian McCann at @nyysteak. Watch the interview at 2p (press conf.) & 6:30p (Hot Stove) tomorrow pic.twitter.com/CUyx8sh2Uy

  179. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    Luis,

    They didn’t have the tradable assets to get Kemp. Until someone knows how to draft and develop players, this is the only option.

  180. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    pic.twitter.com/CUyx8sh2Uy

  181. tomingeorgia December 4th, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    Sounds like a good time to get a word in edgewise. I’m very pleased with this offseason. Now finish it off. Gitt’er done!

  182. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    You do have to trade for Kemp but Boston has prospects so especially if LA would eat some Kemp would be > Ellsbury

  183. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Mac,

    Younger with more pop on that bat…. 844 OPS career vs 789… I’ll take Kemp over Ellsbury in a heartbeat

  184. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: #yankees baseball people liked ellsbury & choo almost equally. in end, jacoby chosen due to “gamer” “toughness” & boston.

    Uhm

  185. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Well goodnight gang. Time to watch SNL Christmas special

    Till tomorrow

  186. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: #yankees baseball people liked ellsbury & choo almost equally. in end, jacoby chosen due to “gamer” “toughness” & boston.

    Uhm

    ———–

    wut?

  187. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Mac,

    I agree with that…But still, the Sox would have made an incredible move.

    If you read my previous posts, you would know by now that I am not that high on Ellsbury ;)

  188. Pat M. December 4th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    SJ told this blog that The Yanks lost about 40 million back in 2008 for their failure to close out The old Stadium with playoff games. Many questioned that and with The Stadium being dark again in 2013 that number is much higher . Face posted that the 189 savings would pale in contrast with declining attendance months ago and that wasn’t even considering no Postseason. Clearly this approach has so many wondering out loud

  189. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
    Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 8:55 pm
    joeman December 4th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    wouldn’t bother me Kemp is injury prone

    —–

    LOL…that’s a good one. Kind of like that guy the Yanks just decided to give $150M+ last night.

    I’ve been hearing and reading all day long that Ellsbury can be this and that for the Yanks “if he’s healthy.”

    When the phrase “if he’s healthy” is often used in the same sentence as a player’s name, we’re not exactly talking about someone who could be mistaken for Cal Ripken.

    —————

    Joeman – let me beat you to the punch on your response… “Gardner is injury prone too” :)
    ——————————————————-
    you did

  190. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    MTU,

    Sure…But boy what a let down that would be

  191. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
    @JonHeymanCBS: #yankees baseball people liked ellsbury & choo almost equally. in end, jacoby chosen due to “gamer” “toughness” & boston.

    Uhm

    —————-

    Gamer – makes sense. He plays extremely hard there’s no denying
    Boston – closest thing to playing in NY as far as pressure and expectations so that makes sense
    toughness – I hope so.

  192. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Mo was on the Michael Kay show today. He said that he has spoken to Cano and he wouldn’t be surprised if Cano feels like he should get more money now that the Yanks gave Ellsbury $153m. He hopes that he stays in NY and said that he knows that Cano wants to stay. But of course added in that they have to treat him right.

  193. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Clutch,

    Of course…Mo is spot on…The Yankees trapped themselves with that contract in several ways

  194. pete2 December 4th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    The new posting system should smash any remaining hopes for the 189′ers. Instead of being available for 10 million AAV he will fetch closer to 17 million AAV.
    Nothing much else out there except Colon and Kuroda, so they will need to spend about 35 million AAV for 2 SP’ers.

    While I would love to keep Cano, if they got Drew and Beltran instead I would be ok with losing him

  195. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    seen Ellsbury play a lot ( when he wasn’t injured) through the years he’s a gamer

  196. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Luis-

    We shouldn’t be measuring ourselves against the Sux or anyone else.

    What we need to do is build OUR team to the best of our ability.

    So far we have done very well.

    We just need to finish the job.

    Once that’s done we’ll be in a position to compete w anyone.

    And the chips can fall where they may.

    ;)

  197. hardwired7 December 4th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    I’m updating my resume to include ‘gamer’ and ‘tough guy’. Look out, world.

  198. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Ellsbury is a gamer. I can understand the Yanks being concerned about if Choo can play in a big market because he has never been in one. But 7 years and $153 is really hard to believe. I would rather have Beltran for 3 years and a starting pitcher.

  199. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:12 pm
    Luis-

    We shouldn’t be measuring ourselves against the Sux or anyone else.

    What we need to do is build OUR team to the best of our ability….

    ———————

    Well said. It really doesn’t matter what anyone else is doing… The yanks are responsible for cleaning their own house. If they do a good enough job, what others do is of little or no consequence

  200. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    If Cano resigns then I won’t care how much they gave Ellsbury. But if Cano leaves and the Yanks only offer him $170m then it will really stink.

  201. tucker December 4th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Good reporting by the WSJ. Confirms what many on this blog speculated. The marginal savings from not signing players to multiyear deals over the past couple of years is more than offset by lower revenue from ticket sales:

    But a look at the Yankees’ finances reveals that a lust for trophies isn’t the only thing fueling this free-agent splurge. When the Yankees fail to make the playoffs, as they did in 2013, their revenues plummet.

    Proceeds from ticket sales and stadium suite licenses alone totaled $295 million through Sept. 30 this year, according to public records reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. That is down from $353 million in 2012, $377 million in 2011 and $384 million in 2010, the records show.

    The figures appeared on financial statements the Yankees are required to file with the city to demonstrate their ability to make payments on the bonds used in the construction of Yankee Stadium. Attendance represents just one of the Yankees’ revenue streams, but it highlights the enormity of the financial incentives for the team to make the playoffs.

    People with knowledge of the team’s finances said the drop-off from 2012 is almost entirely a result of the fact that they missed the playoffs for the first time since 2008.

    Had the Yankees failed to reach the playoffs in 2012, their ticket and suite revenues would have been closer to $300 million rather than $353 million, the people said. Similarly, in 2010 and 2011, postseason games accounted for $59 million and $58 million of all such revenues, respectively.

    In other words, a Yankees team that wins 93 games and makes the playoffs brings in about 15% more ticket and suite revenue than a Yankees team that wins 88 games and misses the playoffs. And that is to say nothing of the boost in merchandise and concession sales and next-year ticket sales.

    “What this clearly shows is that the Yankees’ whole financial equation is built around winning,” said Vince Gennaro, author of “Diamond Dollars: The Economics of Winning in Baseball” and a consultant to major-league teams. “If you take that away, they become mere mortals from a financial standpoint.”

  202. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    winter meetings should be fun this year

  203. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    MTU,

    Well…If I were the owner ( which I am not ;) )…I would like to have a FO like the Sox

    They chose the spending route and given the FO the Yankees have, it was the right thing to do…But if they fail to sign Cano or they grossly overpay for him, they would have defeated themselves yet again… More LT contracts that eventually will shackle them even further… This FO is not even good at spending…

  204. tucker December 4th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Never mind, I see that’s already been posted.

  205. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Joeman-

    Oh yeah. Big fun.

    :)

  206. Giuseppe Franco December 4th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    Well, if the Yanks want to take advantage of Ellsbury’s “gamer” status they may want to finish the job this offseason and construct a team capable of getting to the postseason.

    We as fans were spoiled for many years and took October Baseball in the Bronx for granted.

  207. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Good evening -

    Sounds like the day after on the ol’ blog today…..

    Still early in the process. Lots left to happen… and sure enough, we’re hearing today what we expected to yesterday… the pre-winter-meetings-our-team-is-interested-in-______. Pretty predictable. A little pre-selling for the undecided FA as well.

    No surprise re: posting system screwup. Typically happens when the have-nots try to control free enterprise.

    And MTU and Joeman…. Bailey for Gardner was a month ago….lol.

  208. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    Luis-

    All they need to do is spend smarter.

    I’m not sure they are doing that. That is debatable.

    I do like the McCann signing. And the jury is out on JE.

    For better or worse the Yankees are a win now team.

  209. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    No surprise re: posting system screwup. Typically happens when the have-nots try to control free enterprise.

    ———–

    A bit surprising to me how much power the have-nots seem to be weilding nowadays

  210. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    For what is worth, Choo’s OPS 854 career….

  211. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    chicken -

    One man, one vote. They put in a system that was “dummied down” so that they could ostensibly participate (when we know they won’t, because they are cheap). We see these same results in the free enterprise system every day.

  212. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    MTU,

    Pretty much like big corporations…Their concern is the next quarter… In my experience that does more damage than good in the long run

  213. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    MTU -

    Win now = pump up the bottom line. Plenty of data out there to support the “fannies in the seats” theory of team management.

  214. Jerkface December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    Yu Darvish says if the max posting is only 20 then rakuten won’t post Tanaka. Also said 9 years is way to long for npb players to wait

  215. Pat M. December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    And what is the cost for respect nowadays ??? 10 years 250 million ????

  216. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Steve,

    With all due respect….That’s shortsighted…Yes they pump up revenue short term, but what happens 5 years from now?

  217. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Bailey for Gardner ………………..could that ever happen ?

  218. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    where’s the girl from RI been

  219. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Luis – I understand your concerns but for the Yankees (IMO), rebuild was never an option. First, the average Yankee fan won’t stand for multiple years of mediocrity. Second, the cupboard (while not bare) has few options available short term. Third, the organization has shown absolutely no ability to develop talent. At this point what else is there than try to spend?

  220. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    joeman -

    I think it has a chance. Bailey is going to be $9.3M+/- and he is a FA after 2014, a la Gardner. Reds would get a one-year bandaid to see if Hamilton is the guy in CF.

    Makes sense to me, but what do I know…..

  221. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    luis -

    The Plan 189 program was an unmitigated failure. They can toss that biz model out the window.

    Do they need to do a better job of prospecting? Sure, but they are the Yankees. One of their biggest assets is revenue. They’d be crazy not to maximize it, and then re-invest it.

    That’s what they are doing.

  222. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    I met Hamilton in AZ (I think it was 2012?). Seemed like a really nice guy… I’ve never seen a thinner human in my life! I’m thinking he has to dance in the shower to make sure he gets wet!

  223. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    And by the way…

    I have a lot of respect for Nick Cafardo as a baseball mind, but, really?

    He tweets once today and it’s to let the Nation know that Kemp “is in play”? Please.

    Therapy session over… the RS fanbase has been calmed.

  224. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Heels hangin in against the izzos

  225. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    @mikeaxisa: So what would be the package for Price? Walker + Franklin or Ackley + Montero (1B) + a prospect I’ve never heard of? Might be a little light

  226. tucker December 4th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Luis — good analogy on the chase for quarterly profits.

    I think the Yanks stopped investing in the farm and began to shed their good prospects after 2009. They should have continued to spend on the draft and IFAs then. They might have developed a new core by now if they stayed the course because the farm was in decent shape then.

  227. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Most attractive FA OFers next year are probably Gardner, Rasmus, Crisp, Cuddyer and – if options are declined – Markakis and Rios. So …

    Pretty rough

  228. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Steve-

    Is Bailey a salary dump ?

    why don’t they want to re-sign him ?

    The guy has tossed a pair of no-no’s hasn’t he ?

    I don’t understand that ?

  229. luis December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Glenn,

    I agree with your take…In the end, the spending route was the way to go, considering the assets they have and the FO they have…But if I were the owner, I would have overhauled the FO and reset the tax…They need to change the model to have sustained success in this environment… A model that emphasizes player development and compliments it with FA, IFA or trades… A beefed up Cards model for instance… I know they would have taken a hit in the bottom line short term, but in the end they would have been better off. That’s the entrepreneur in me speaking.

    In any case, we are on the spending boat…So far, I think McCann’s pick is a good one….Ellsbury while he is an upgrade, that wasn’t a position of inmediate need and I think they grossly overpaid for his services, which IMO will impact Cano’s negotiations…That’s not smart spending IMO, and even if they chose to go the spending route, they need to do so smartly

  230. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    blake -

    Hence the “get two now” theory that we talked about weeks ago…

    And how did that work out for Beltran? The three year stance is going to chase away the Red Sox and Yankees and he’ll be left with the same decision Cano is facing … Royals or Mariners for 3 years, or Yankees for two?

    My guess? His agent will push for the 3 (bigger commission) and his family will push for the chance at a ring, which is what he REALLY wants.

  231. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Heels hangin in against the izzos

    ———————–

    Not just hanging in – the lead near half. Do you remember a few days ago when I was eating a Jimmy john’s sub and you started posting about NY strip? Thanks, Blake for posting this after the UVA debacle!!! :)

  232. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Cano was never gonna get more than 200.

    Ellsbury or no Ellsbury.

    That’s an obscene amount of money.

    25 mil per is a ton of love.

  233. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    MTU -

    They have broached the subject, but Bailey is not interested. Wants to test the market in 2015. Perfect one year match for the NYY.

  234. chicken_stanley December 4th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    That’s not smart spending IMO, and even if they chose to go the spending route, they need to do so smartly

    ——

    agreed 100%

  235. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Reds rotation & 4 of their top 7 prospects in the minors are SPers

    1. J. Cueto
    2. M. Latos
    3. H. Bailey
    4. M. Leake
    5. T. Cingrani

  236. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    joeman -

    Correct. But CF is problematic.

  237. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    Steve-

    I guess they don’t feel they can re-sign him as a FA so get something for him now.

    That’s a shame. He’s a really good young arm.

    It would probably give the Yankees the inside track if they like his performance.

    They wouldn’t be hesitant to re-sign a good young arm.

    To me he is at least a 4 if not better.

    At times he has Ace potential. Consistency has been his problem.

    I saw his No-No. He was totally overpowering in all respects.

  238. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Most attractive FA OFers next year are probably Gardner, Rasmus, Crisp, Cuddyer and – if options are declined – Markakis and Rios. So …

    Pretty rough

    —————

    It’s really not a terrible idea to see if you can extend Gardner for another couple years.. we’re probably past that point because he’d get more on the open market, but I’d at least try.

  239. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    Tucker,

    Thanks for posting that. It is good to see real numbers. Smart numbers guys like Hal have to look at income as well as expenses. Keep spending.

  240. joeman December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 9:57 pm
    joeman -

    Correct. But CF is problematic.
    ——————————————–
    waiting on Hamilton

  241. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    joeman -

    True, and a year of Gardner gets them that. Reds’ FO acknowledges the need for the bandaid.

  242. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Here is the thing, Yanks could have done two things, retool and stay under cap for 14 which including trading away kuroda,Cano and Grandy if the opportunities presents itself in 13 Or, spend their way to a competitive team for next 2 years and hope the farm curb the depreciation of the current grp. Now, I don’t love Ellsbury signing but it does improve the club for the immediate future. I am hoping yanks is doing the latter.

  243. wanzies222 December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    MTU -

    Bailey is the kind of match that works for the NYY (there aren’t many).

  244. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    New one ——->

  245. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    so if the posting fee is a mere 20m, doesn’t that mean the AVV for tanaka are likely blow 189 plan into oblivion?

  246. luis December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Tucker,

    Spot on…. After so many missed opportunities and the new CBA, they need to change the business model.

    Steve,

    Yes…The problem is that the model is no longer viable long term… I’ll give you an example…I run a few businesses…When I took over i designed a business plan that meant losing money for at least 3 years while the company was restructured…And we did, we even lost market share…But afterwards, revenues increased exponentially to the point that the group right now is 10 times what it used to be…

  247. PittsburghYankeeFan December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    $25 million x 7, Senor Cano. Perhaps an option year. Won’t last forever.

  248. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    I’m on the new thread.

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