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Ten questions in the wake of the Ellsbury deal

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jacoby Ellsbury

1. What does this mean for $189 million?
Goal not a mandate. That’s what we’ve heard over and over again, and that certainly seems to be the way it’s playing out. The Yankees are being aggressive. With Jacoby Ellsbury and Brian McCann, they’ve signed the two most expensive free agent deals of the offseason. They also still need a second baseman (though Kelly Johnson helps there), probably a third baseman, and they’re well aware that they still need significant help in the rotation. It’s unavoidable that they’re going to spend more, and it may be that their only hope of staying below the luxury tax threshold is having Alex Rodriguez suspended for the whole season.

2. What does this mean for Brett Gardner?
The Yankees are certainly making it seem as if they’re planning to keep Gardner and play him in left field. And with Gardner likely to make roughly $4 million in his final arbitration-eligible season, the Yankees certainly don’t have to trade him. He’s kind of a poor-man’s Ellsbury, and there’s almost certainly $4-million worth of value in what he does defensively and offensively (not to mention the fact he gives the Yankees a legitimate backup in center field, something they were lacking). But even so, Gardner could still become expendable in the right deal, and teams in search of center field help could come calling. Gardner doesn’t have to go, but it’s much easier to trade him today than it was yesterday.

3. What does this mean for Robinson Cano?
Hard to think the Yankees are bluffing at this point. They’ve made an offer to Cano, and they’re beginning to put themselves in a position of strength by proving they’re willing to spend elsewhere. Cano is the best player on the free agent market, the Yankees know he can play in New York, and they know he plays a position they can’t easily fill from within. He’s a terrific fit, but spending has limits, and the Yankees can’t afford to wait around. If Cano wants to come back, he certainly can, but holding out for more than $200 million might mean holding out for a team other than the Yankees.

4. What does this mean for Carlos Beltran?
Hard to believe it means anything good for him, unless what it means is that the Royals really have offered a big three-year deal, and it was that deal that forced the Yankees to move on to the long-term risk of the Ellsbury signing. If the Yankees are going to keep Gardner in left field, and if they’re going to rotate the DH spot among several players, that means Alfonso Soriano has to play a lot of right field by default. And that doesn’t leave much of a spot for Beltran or Shin-Soo Choo or Curtis Granderson. Then again … If the Yankees decide they aren’t going to sign Cano, they could sign Beltran — or some other outfielder — to help make up for the lost offense, and then shop Gardner in search of either a starting pitcher or an infielder. Seems like a possibility, but the way the team is constructed right now, right field isn’t a position of significant need.

5. What does this mean for Ichiro Suzuki?
It’s been pretty clear for a while that the Yankees were looking for an outfield upgrade. Instead of signing one to play right field — as was expected — they signed one to play center. As long as there’s no permanent designated hitter in place, the Yankees could still use Ichiro to serve as a fourth outfielder, maybe even getting regular starts in right field against right handers, leaving Soriano to DH on those days. Ichiro has much more experience in right than Soriano does, and Ichiro brings a speed element to the bench.

6. What does this mean for Vernon Wells?
The Yankees are basically getting Wells for free this season, so they could dump him pretty easily if he doesn’t produce (or if they simply need the 40-man spot). One thing Wells does have going for him is that he bats right handed, and right now the Yankees are putting together a left-leaning lineup. Even Zoilo Almonte, who is a switch hitter, is much better from the left side. Maybe Wells could scratch out a role as a platoon player against lefties. That seems to be his best shot at sticking around at this point.

7. What does this mean for Slade Heathcott and Mason Williams?
These are two of the Yankees top position prospects, and they’re both leadoff-type center fielders who bat left handed. Of course, the Yankees just signed a seven-year deal with a leadoff-type center fielder who bats left handed. If either Heathcott or Williams looked like a sure thing at this point, the Ellsbury deal might not have happened (or at least, it might have become a little less likely). But prospects are suspects, and that’s certainly true with these two. Heathcott and Williams might now have to hit enough to prove they’re worth a spot in one of the corners. Unless something goes wrong, the center field job won’t be available for a while.

8. What does this mean for the rotation?
Have to assume it means basically nothing. Surely the Yankees aren’t blowing their entire budget this early in the process, only to cry poor when it comes time to actually find some starting pitchers to provide those 400 innings Brian Cashman has talked about. One potential rotation impact might come from Gardner. Even if the Yankees haven’t said outloud that they want to trade Gardner, the Ellsbury signing should at least open the possibility of using Gardner to trade for a starting pitcher.

9. What does this mean for Jacoby Ellsbury?
It better mean that he’s buying the drinks and the dinner next time he’s out with his buddies. It also means the Yankees have put their faith — and their future — into the idea that he can stay healthy and be one of the game’s elite leadoff hitters for several years to come. Every long-term deal is a risk, and that’s especially true for a guy who’s main tool is his speed and who’s already spent some time on the disabled list. The Yankees, though, are in it now. They’re committed to Ellsbury, and it’s up to him to perform. Could certainly go down as a horrible contract, but that’s true of every major free agent signing.

10. What does this mean for Hal Steinbrenner?
Two months ago he was being called cheap. Now there are plenty who think he’s overpaid. I suppose it’s possible to be both — spending freely and spending wisely are different things — but early offseason deals with McCann and Ellsbury really do feel like moves The Boss might have made. It’s hard to say Steinbrenner is digging through the bargain bin this winter. He’s giving out big contracts. Now he needs them to actually work out.

Associated Press photos

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382 Responses to “Ten questions in the wake of the Ellsbury deal”

  1. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Mark Feinsand ? @FeinsandNYDN

    Classic. On @MLBNetwork, Chris Russo is going on and on about Ellsbury, prompting Harold Reynolds to interrupt, “Come up for air!”

    Figures!. As soon as Yanks sign someone. Russo goes rabid! One of the biggest Yanke haters around!

  2. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:05 am

    The Yanks should try to buy low on Olt from the Cubs…..at best he could fight with Johnson for the 3B job….at worst he could maybe platoon with him.

  3. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Kemp has 6 years $128M left on his deal… Isn’t that a better contract then 7 years – $153M for Ellsbury? Obviously both have injury risk but Kemp has a higher ceiling. If the Yanks took Kemp’s full contract I can’t imagine they would have had to give up much.

    Yanks should still trade for Kemp and then sign Cano/Kuroda/Tanaka/Balfour.

  4. Crawdaddy December 4th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Which is why Russo shoudn’t be on MLB Network as it’s a channel for all teams and fans. I don’t mind him being a Yankee Hater, but he shoudn’t be on a channel that caters to all baseball fans including Yankee fans.

  5. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    sign Beltran and Cano and this has the potential to be a beastly lineup…..especially vs RHP.

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter SS
    Beltran RF
    Cano 2B
    Soriano DH
    McCann C
    Tex 1B
    Johnson 3B
    Gardner LF.

    that’s a tough lineup and an incredibly good defensive outfield….maybe the best in baseball.

  6. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Chad – brilliant, common sense, clear thinking. Thank you.

    Each and every point is perfectly stated, and each hits the center of its target.

  7. CountryClub December 4th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Obviously health will be the biggest factor, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that Ellsbury turned 30 in September. That means he’ll “only” be 36 for almost all of the 7 yr of the deal. It could have been worse.

  8. Crawdaddy December 4th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Taking Kemp from the Dodgers allows them to be bigger platers for Cano.

  9. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    “pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Kemp has 6 years $128M left on his deal… Isn’t that a better contract then 7 years – $153M for Ellsbury? Obviously both have injury risk but Kemp has a higher ceiling. If the Yanks took Kemp’s full contract I can’t imagine they would have had to give up much”
    ======================================================
    kemp will not come cheap and whoever picks him up will likely pay every cent of the contract, too.

  10. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    “Kemp has 6 years $128M left on his deal… Isn’t that a better contract then 7 years – $153M for Ellsbury? ”

    Yes but that isn’t the full question…..if you had to deal Nova to get Kemp would you rather have Nova and Ellsbury at 7/153 or Kemp only at 6/128? That’s a tougher question….Kemp is better when healthy but his injuries are worrisome and could be chronic.

  11. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    I would think with Ellsbury signing that the door is closed on Beltran now. Need to focus on the pitching next, and Cano

  12. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    “Taking Kemp from the Dodgers allows them to be bigger platers for Cano.”

    Not to mention Tanaka.

  13. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Vs LHP would be a little tougher…..you probably sit Gardner and go with something like.

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Cano 2B
    Soriano LF
    Beltran RF
    McCann/Cervelli
    Nunez/Reynolds/?
    ???? DH

  14. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    If it cost Nova for Kemp with his full contract being paid by the Yankees I definitely chose Ellsbury instead… If we could give the Dodgers something like Ramirez + Austin for Kemp then I chose the Kemp route.

  15. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    If 189 is out the window then they should go ahead and just sign Beltran too…..right now Ichiro or Wells still has to play and that sucks.

  16. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Good morning.

    Awoke to snow on the ground.

    20 degree drop in temps.

    Brrrrrr !!!!

    Good thing I have the Yanks to warm me up.

    :)

  17. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Did I mention I hate cold weather.

    ;)

  18. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    wait….chris russo is still alive?

  19. CountryClub December 4th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    The way the Yankees want this to play out is for Cano to understand they are not going beyond a $189 million payroll for next season. By their calculations, they can fit McCann, Ellsbury, Cano and Hiroki Kuroda into that budget. But they have offers for more than that group out there. So, for example, if they could get Shin-Soo Choo to agree in the near future, they would play Brett Gardner in left, Ellsbury in center, Choo in right, make Alfonso Soriano the DH and get out on Cano.

    http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/y.....-backfire/

  20. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    “Two months ago he was being called cheap. Now there are plenty who think he’s overpaid.”

    A well-run baseball organization could actually find a happy medium or at the least not have to again gloss over its mistakes by potentially getting into another long term, “mistake” contract.

    But as I said last night, re-sign Cano, Hal, and all is forgiven (Cano should age well and can DH eventually), I’ll even forgive the lame dumpster diving that we season ticket holders essentially paid for and had to endure the last couple of years. Hal and Cash were lucky that anyone came to Yankee Stadium to watch those players play. As for the farm, better not forget that in this new era, players like Hanley won’t likely be available, so don’t shirk on the cash infusions to bolster the team on the development side. Yanks need to recommit on that front or they continue to be lost in a league where other top teams are able to create a young and viable core.

  21. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    “I would think with Ellsbury signing that the door is closed on Beltran now. Need to focus on the pitching next, and Cano”

    I think the Yankees are making incredible moves. People whined about age. Well gang, the Yankees got younger and better with two strokes of the pen. Beltran could have been an okay move, but Ellsbury was a brilliant move IMO.

    People who are questioning it will come to love it, guarantee. And those who feel the need to pretend they know more than the Yankees will find something rotten to say no matter what, so they don’t matter anyway!

    **********

    About Ellsbury and injuries? That’s because the team he played for and the piranhas on the team forced the kid to come out and play before he was fully healed and that unfortunately took on a life of its own when he got injured his first game back. He probably never fully healed because he always had to prove to the fandom and to the team he’d go out there and play no matter what.

    Give him the off season to get himself together. You may be pleasantly surprised at how may games he ends up playing each season for the next 7.

    All we are saying
    Is give Ells a chance
    All we are saying
    Is give Ells a chance

    Think about him on the base paths, only in pinstripes. Come on. Automatic runs coming your way.

    :)

    And remember this, sportsfans. Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

    Put away the microscope, look at the big picture, and be heartened. You’re really wasting good energy to do otherwise.

  22. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    mtu, you should move up here where it’s sunny and mid 50′s again today!

  23. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    The thing about the Cano situation is this. Does JayZ really want his first big client and first big splash to be marketted in such an irrelevant market? For what? Another 25 million or so? Could make that up easily with endorsements here in the NY market

  24. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    “The way the Yankees want this to play out is for Cano to understand they are not going beyond a $189 million payroll for next season. By their calculations, they can fit McCann, Ellsbury, Cano and Hiroki Kuroda into that budget. But they have offers for more than that group out there. So, for example, if they could get Shin-Soo Choo to agree in the near future, they would play Brett Gardner in left, Ellsbury in center, Choo in right, make Alfonso Soriano the DH and get out on Cano.”

    see this is what I’m afraid of……signing Ellsbury with no budget….ok…..signing Ellsbury and still trying to get under 189 and risking losing Cano….not ok.

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    “Good morning.

    Awoke to snow on the ground.”

    Lucky you!

    :)

    Can’t wait to see some of the white stuff coming this way!

    Squirrels are really fat. Old man winter should be visiting us with a vengeance.

  26. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    as ive said all along….I don’t think 189 is off….and if it’s not then this Ellsbury contract is kinda crazy.

  27. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    MTU,
    you going skiing?

  28. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Joel Sherman@Joelsherman1 13m
    Going on Hot Stove on MLB Network at 9:15 to talk Cano, Ellsbury #Yankees
    _____
    As per Sherman’s column last night, he is right, the Ellsbury signings effect on signing Cano. If we lose Cano b/c of this deal, the joke is on us.

  29. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Y’s-

    At least I don’t live in the Midwest where the temps were an astonishing -40 in some places.

    That’s just sad.

    :(

  30. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Bob Klapisch ?@BobKlap 17m
    Even with Ellsbury and McCann, #Yankees off-season incomplete until/unless they re-sign Cano: http://bit.ly/1dPK1hL

  31. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    on signing Cano *could be detrimental*

    Here’s hoping it is not, and we can re-sign Robi.

  32. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Right now this is possible makeup of the 25 man roster:

    OF- Gardner, Ellsbury, Soriano, Ichiro, Wells/Almonte
    IF- Teixeira, Johnson, Jeter, Ryan
    C- McCann, Cervelli

    Two more spots to fill. Cano and a right handed bat-Reynolds?

    Pitchers:
    Sabathia, Nova, Phelps, Warren, Pineda, Claiborne, Betances, Kelley, Robertson

    Need 3 or more spots here

  33. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    What an amazing OS so far.

    Win, lose, or draw you have to say it’s not been dull.

    ;)

  34. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Have to sign Cano now or this whole thing is even crazier…..Give him his 8/200 or so and get it over with.

  35. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    so sad for cano that so far the only interest he can muster to push the yankees is a meeting with the mets at his agent’s request and a rumor from a team nobody will sign with….

    once again, this cano free agency is going really well for the yankees to this point.

  36. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    If we don’t sign Cano, it is an epic fail.

  37. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Good morning Mr. YT.

    Looks like you have your answer.

    ;)

  38. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    “see this is what I’m afraid of……signing Ellsbury with no budget….ok…..signing Ellsbury and still trying to get under 189 and risking losing Cano….not ok.”

    OY VEY

    :roll:

    sigh

    SMH

    blake – please stop with this. You’ve lost your way, my friend.

    If you really can’t center yourself in the reality, maybe you need to realize that you have no control over it, so it really doesn’t matter. Cano will be a Yankee, or he won’t.

  39. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    YF-

    Let’s keep our powder dry until we see what transpires.

    I have to say that some of the Yankees valuations puzzle me so far.

    ;)

  40. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Yanks really need a RH bat even if they sign Cano…..this current lineup is heavily reliant on Soriano, Jeter, and Tex against LHP.

  41. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Corey Hart was cleared for baseball activities as of yesterday.

    Missed all of last year but no denying his production the prior 3 years:

    2010: .283/.340/.525/.865 – 31 HR
    2011: .285/.356/.510/.866 – 26 HR
    2012: .270/.334/.507/.841 – 30 HR

    He’s a right handed bat with good oppo power which obviously plays well in NYS.

    Obviously there is risk coming off of a missed year (and his second major knee surgery) but he will only be 32 to start next season, can likely be had on a very short discounted deal, and can serve as a right handed DH/back up 1B.

  42. brianlopez22 December 4th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    “The Yanks should try to buy low on Olt from the Cubs…..at best he could fight with Johnson for the 3B job….at worst he could maybe platoon with him.

    I actually was saying this to my co-worker (who’s a cubs fan).
    He wants Baez to play 3B this season (shades of Machado), but Theo may not do it, willing to give the job to Olt to see what he can do.

    Since Smardzija is on the block as well, maybe some mixture of Gardner, Phelps + 2 prospects for Smardzija and throw in Olt. (seems too pricey for what we have but I can dream, can’t I?)

  43. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    A few thoughts now that I’ve had time to sleep on the deal.

    1. What the Yankees have done this winter is react directly to issues we all had with the way the team was constructed over the last two years – that they were too one dimensional, that they didn’t think catcher needed to be an offensive position, that they lacked depth and that they waited too long to make moves and were left with table scraps to choose from. With the signings of McCann, Ryan, Ellsbury and apparently Kelly Johnson they are making decisive moves that improve their depth, improve their offense behind the plate and make their offense more multifaceted. Last year Cashman kept saying that he couldn’t move on this guy or that guy because he was focused on something else – it seems like this winter Cashman has done a better job of multitasking and moving on different fronts as they become available.

    2. Speed kills. If the Yankees do keep Ichiro in RF and Gardner in LF and Soriano at DH they are going to have a blistering fast team on the bases. My bet is still that Ichiro goes and that Soriano is the primary RF.

    3. Ellsbury needs to stay Ellsbury. The Yankees realize that the short porch will help Jacoby hit for more power, but he needs to avoid being seduced by it and avoid becoming gunshy of left center. If he gets away from being a guy who uses the whole field and becomes a dead pull hitter like Tex or Granderson then this deal will fail. In his interview with YES Tex said that it’s the most natural thing in the world as a left handed hitter – you hit a few on the nose to left center and they get run down you get angry, and then you hit something weaker to RF and it goes out, your instinct is to go to RF.

    4. The Yankees need a RH bat. Assume for a minute that Cano is re-signed and Kelly Johnson opens at 3b – that gives you a lineup of 6 LH, 2 RH and 1 SH. I think they need to move Ichiro (or use him as a 4th OF) put Soriano in RF and sign a guy like Corey Hart or Mark Reynolds as the DH.

    I happen to be a big fan of the Johnson signing, I thought the Yankees should have signed him last year. I think he’s the perfect guy to platoon with Eduardo Nunez at 3b next year.

    As for what this means for the Yankee prospects, I don’t think it means much. Soriano and Gardner are both free agents at the end of the year. If some combination of Heathcott, Williams and Austin are ready to play, there will be room for them provided they’re still on the team. I think it certainly gives Cashman the ability to listen a little harder on trade proposals that involve the young outfielders and enables him to use Brett Gardner as a trade chip as well.

  44. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    MTU, do not underrate the influence of fan wants and needs. These things must be expressed in order to make them happen. ;)

  45. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    if the mariner’s rumored offer is the only other one out there, expect this to go into january. in the end, he might take it if the yankees don’t budge (they will), but don’t expect cano to take the mariner’s money until all other options have been exhausted.

  46. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    The Yankees have paid Ellsbury as if he is on the same level as Cano.

  47. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    And if Cano is not a Yankee it will have nothing to do with the Ellsbury signing, even though I’m sure some of you will convince yourselves otherwise.

    If Cano doesn’t sign with the Yankees, maybe the epic fail is on his part. Try that on for size.

    ************

    It appears the Yankees are proceeding nicely in building for next season. It appears they are not coming from a position of panic.

    It would be great if fans can follow suit…

  48. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    I remember Hart being a terrible OF but I like that bat esp if you can get it on the cheap. Interesting that there is been no convo about Cruz and Yanks at all, I guess PED is probably the reason.

    I would like the Yankees to sign Cano, but this Cano and bust thing is getting absurd. What they need is more… this looks like 80 win team on paper to me right now.

  49. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:33 am
    The Yankees have paid Ellsbury as if he is on the same level as Cano.
    ___
    Yes, unfortunately. Hope it doesn’t backfire.

  50. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    “He wants Baez to play 3B this season (shades of Machado), but Theo may not do it, willing to give the job to Olt to see what he can do.”

    they gotta make room for Bryant at some point too…..looks like they’d move Olt. I doubt we have enough to get Samardzija. He had a down year but he’s a front line type arm and somebody would outbid us for him I think

  51. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Corey Hart would be an option at first, as his outfield playing days are probably over. Michael Morse, who had a horrible year might help some team. The Yankees signed Russ Canzler to a minor league deal. I think they would, after resigning Cano, look to resign Reynolds for third and first.

  52. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    no even close MTU , Cano has asked for 260, Ells got paid for 150 which i still think it’s an overpay.

  53. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Phelps for Olt? Maybe theo would do that….I dunno

  54. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    pat December 4th, 2013 at 12:57 am

    GordonEdes
    Source close to negotiations said Sox offered Ellsbury a six-year deal for less than $120 million. A 5 yr/100m offer also was on table

    ————-

    This is exactly what I was afraid of..

    If Cano really does have an offer for 30-40 million more than the Yankees were offering, how do you not match that deal?

  55. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Of course right now the Yanks may need Phelps for pitching depth more than they need a risky 3B prospect…..

  56. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Does anyone know if the Ellsbury contract is more front loaded?

  57. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Remember folks.

    This is still the beginning and not the final stop.

    More is on the way.

    The Yankees should change their name to “Pontiac”.

    Because they build excitement.

    The Yankees are a GTO.

    ;)

  58. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    They do need a right handed bat for balance. Hart is possible, is suppose, but I think that it would likely have to come via trade of our newfound excess in CF and catcher.

    Still much work to be done, and I don’t think they can do it with or without a year long suspension. I am hoping it will just go away. 189 is now my least favorite of all numbers.

  59. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Cashmoney-

    Is there a whole lot of daylight between around 22 and around 25 ?

  60. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    MTU, you’ll see “excitement” from me if they don’t sign Cano.

  61. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    And the Yankees haven’t even gotten to 25 per yet.

    ;)

  62. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Ys

    If Cano waits until January, in this current aggressive market, most teams will have already used up their budgets. Even Boras has acknowledged this. I really think Cano will be signed during the winter meetings, with all of his agent entourage at the Disney resort in Orlando.

  63. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    the opening bid for cano is more than the final price for ellsbury and we all know cano is not going to sign for the yankees initial bid.

  64. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    3 mil to be precise, but there is whole of daylight btw 260 and 153. it’s not only the AVV but length of his absurd demand. THIS TEAM WON 85 GAMES WITH HIM!

  65. brianlopez22 December 4th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    “they gotta make room for Bryant at some point too…..looks like they’d move Olt.”

    Bryant will be there by the end of next year.
    Baez moves to 2B, Darwin Barney (who was almost non-tendered) will be traded.
    I agree Olt is the odd man out, and up for grabs. They also have a 3B prospect Candeleria, who was getting a lot of press before Bryant was picked. He’s more of a prospect right now, but it shows that Theo was able to do what Cashman has failed to do in 18 years… develop talent.

    I agree that Phelps is more valuable right now. The only way I throw him into a trade, is for a Smardzija type pitcher.

  66. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Sox refuse to get into those extra years of a contract. Hate to say it, but they are smart that way. Yanks will sign Ellsbury for 7, but won’t give Cano 8, lol.

  67. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    MTU – God bless you for adding happiness as well as logic to the moment. I was thinking I was going to have to find my joy elsewhere because the appearance of a band of Debbie Downers had made its way onto the forum!

    “no even close MTU , Cano has asked for 260, Ells got paid for 150″

    :)

    Guess it has no possibility of “backfiring” then, eh?

  68. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    YF-

    Calmate.

    Tranquillo Senora.

    Esta esperanza.

    ;)

  69. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    yt, i think you’re right, it won’t go into january because someone else will jump in and then the yankees will begin to negotiate in earnest and he’ll sign.

    my point was that he wont take the mariner’s rumored offer until and unless its the only thing out there and even then he’ll make them wait a long time.

    but the mariner’s money will likely still be there because nobody else seems to want to take it either.

  70. Wave Your Hat December 4th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Does Kelly Johnson really make sense at third? He’s hardly played there. I fear he’s really the first step in saying goodbye to Cano.

  71. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “THIS TEAM WON 85 GAMES WITH HIM!”

    And how was that Cano’s fault?

  72. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    MTU.

    I always wanted a GTO, but instead had a 1967 Pontiac Tempest with no A/C in Texas and went from 0-60 in 9.4 days.

    That’s why I want my rich team to spend.

  73. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Sign Infante and Choo, I will go to war with those 2 if Cano can’t be had at Yanks price. Let’s see Yanks could still use a SS, 2b, 3b and probably 1b when Tex breaks his wrist.

  74. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    yf, the sox have been ‘smart that way’ for all of one year so far. let’s see if they really think they can stay competetive long-term if they don’t go after the top free agents.

  75. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    MTU, serenity is my middle name, for the time being. But thanks for caring. :)

  76. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    “Yanks will sign Ellsbury for 7, but won’t give Cano 8, lol.”

    Probably tired of hearing a whining fan base complain about not being able to have a real DH because they have aging players taking up the spot.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Personally I wouldn’t go over 6 years with a contract for a player who’s 30. So 7 would definitely be my max. But apparently the Yankees are comfortable with 7.

    I guarantee you that people on this forum who are screaming for Robby will be the same voices who are screaming that he should be gone when and if he starts to decline.

    But I guess that’s the nature of fandom. Emotional, not logical.

  77. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    CF – Ellsbury
    SS – Jeter
    2B – Cano
    RF – Soriano
    C – McCann
    1B – Tex
    DH – Hart
    3B – Johnson
    CF – Gardner

    Ichiro – Wells – Cervelli – Ryan

    CC – Kuroda – Tanaka – Nova – Pineda/Phelps/Warren

    Drob – Balfour – Crain – Kelley – Betances – Cabral – Phelps/Warren
    ————
    I could live with that… Subbing in Beltran for Hart would be icing on the cake.

  78. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    YF

    The Sox won by retooling their roster with cheaper free agent options that all panned out with Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, and contributions from their farm system, which I thought should have been depleted by now, after some previous misguided trades.

    You should be working in the front office, assistant GM. The Yankees would build a solid foundation under your guidance!

  79. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    And how was that Cano’s fault?
    —–
    YF, Cano is not indispensable to any teams… he is a complimentary player wants to be paid as the best player in baseball which he is not.

  80. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    I made my apologies.

    As I said I would.

    Because MTU is a Man of his word.

    And I gave mine on that issue.

    I’m eating my plate of humble pie and warmed over crow.

    And I never have and never will be afraid to admit I am wrong and to apologize profusely for it.

    To quote an amigo, I hope 189 is “toast”.

    ;)

  81. CountryClub December 4th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    People need to stop acting like this is Cano vs Ellsbury. If they lose Cano, it’s Cano vs Ellsbury + the other players the yanks sign.

    Like i said last night, I’m going to let the dust settle and then I’ll decide what I think of all their moves. I know one thing, I have no interest in seeing the yanks sign Cano to a 10 yr / 220 mil deal (or whatever craziness he may end up getting from Seattle).

  82. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Ys Guy, Yanks just need to be smart. We are in this situation in the first place because we have too many long contracts on the books. But if they have chosen the Ellsbury contract over Cano’s, then they are clueless.

  83. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Sox refuse to get into those extra years of a contract. Hate to say it, but they are smart that way. Yanks will sign Ellsbury for 7, but won’t give Cano 8, lol.

    ———————

    And they gave Ellsbury a NTC?! What?? Please let that be limited.

    The way I see it, if you’re paying a guy more than anyone else there’s no reason to go the extra mile on a NTC. I mean.. it won’t stop me from trying to trade him down the road but it might stop the Yankees lol.

  84. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    MTU, what are you wrong about?

  85. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    “If Cano really does have an offer for 30-40 million more than the Yankees were offering, how do you not match that deal?”

    I don’t think they can go into the 225+ range for Cano…..but given the market they have to go to at least 200 for him or this ellsbury deal makes even less sense.

  86. brianlopez22 December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 am


    all the free agent signings in the world won’t work unless the yankee farm system comes up to speed.

    Amazing, but the “prospect huggers” have been saying this for the last 8-10 years.

    It also helps Boston that when they miss the playoffs, they absolutely tank, so they get top 10 picks. (The Sux had the #7 pick this year and won the World Series).
    The Yankees haven’t had a losing record in 20 years.

  87. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Yup CC, it’s not Ells vs Cano, it’s about Yanks going after what they need (which they need a lot) while not being held hostages by Cano.

  88. BIG AL December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    MTU -

    Good morning Mike. That cold front is headed our way for the weekend, right now temps in the 70′s.

    I’m really suprised by the Ellsbury signing, I was sure it was going to be Beltran, or perhaps Choo.

  89. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Shame, agree that the NTC is disturbing; gives them even less flexibility will Ells, and we have been there, done that. Guess we are slow learners.

  90. 86w183 December 4th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Gotta run guys —-

    Let’s keep adding!

    Have a day

  91. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    *with Ells.

    Hopefully, we and Robi meet a happy medium. Quite doable if we are interested.

  92. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Personally I wouldn’t go over 6 years with a contract for a player who’s 30. So 7 would definitely be my max. But apparently the Yankees are comfortable with 7.

    ——————–

    The years directly relate to the overall dollar amount so it actually favors the Yankees to give Cano more years on a $200ish million deal because they can spread out the money.

  93. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    “The way I see it, if you’re paying a guy more than anyone else there’s no reason to go the extra mile on a NTC. I mean.. it won’t stop me from trying to trade him down the road but it might stop the Yankees lol.”

    the money and years should have been enough…..they have to stop with these no trades.

  94. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 9:45 am
    MTU.

    I always wanted a GTO, but instead had a 1967 Pontiac Tempest with no A/C in Texas and went from 0-60 in 9.4 days.

    That’s why I want my rich team to spend.
    —————–
    Now I know that we are connected. Same here, a GTO with a Hurst shifter, but alas poor Yorick, I got a red Corvair.

  95. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Teix redux.

  96. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    “If Cano really does have an offer for 30-40 million more than the Yankees were offering, how do you not match that deal?”

    I don’t think they can go into the 225+ range for Cano…..but given the market they have to go to at least 200 for him or this ellsbury deal makes even less sense.

    —————

    Look, I agree. Lock him up at the 8/200 we’ve been assuming since last year.

    But my point is no other team appeared to be remotely close to the final figure Ellsbury got. Dude got at least $30 million more than any other known offer from the Yankees. To overpay by tens of millions for Ellsbury and then say ‘we can’t get up from 7/$168 for Cano’ I don’t get it. It makes no sense in terms of how the market works. The Yankees are now responsible for over-inflating the market and now they don’t want to go higher for their own..? Just resign him and let me rest easy.

  97. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    YF-

    I have been wrong about a number of things (what else is new ?) :

    1) That Hal was more interested in his spreadsheets than in building a championship Team

    2) That Hal was a weak leader

    3) That Hal lacked a passion for winning

    etc.

    etc.

    I made a formal apology yesterday to Mr. Steinbrenner.

    My conscience is now clear. And my slate is once again clean.

    :)

  98. Kelvin December 4th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    I honestly think the Yankees are trying to hand out shorter deals with higher AAV’s.

    From now on all deals will be 7 MAX and if the player wants the 8th year it only is through a vesting option, IE Health/Plate Appearances.

  99. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Shame, I hear what you’re saying, but I think we need to be vigilant about years in a contract. The reason we’re in the position we’re in is because of signing those long-ass contracts.

  100. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    i dont think they’ve chosen ellsbury over cano. i think cano will be at 2b at NYS next spring like always.

    and alot of people thought the napoli contract the RS signed last offseason (5 years for a 31 y/o catcher) was too long, too, but he failed the physical and ended up on a one year deal.

    of course the yankees have to do a better job of developing players, but of course the RS will have to go into the FA market and sign guys to too-long deals, too. every big market, big payroll team has to do both to be successful.

  101. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    the money and years should have been enough…..they have to stop with these no trades.

    ——————–

    Absolutely should have been… really don’t get what happened here other than Boras getting on the phone with Levine and the world exploding some time shortly thereafter.

    Again, hoping it’s not a full NTC.

  102. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    MTU – it’s character building and freeing, isn’t it?

    ;)

    I think back on my many Kuroda mea culpas.

  103. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I’ wouldn’t mind an original Shelby GT FB, or currently, a GT350 if anyone happens to have one lying around.

    :)

  104. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Last night, someone on Twitter was running what Mike Trout should get on a 7 year free agent deal if he signed today. It was based on projected WAR over the 7 years. He did it on Ellsbury too, and it came out to very close to what he got, which makes this neither a good or bad deal, IMO. Means they paid face value, which is fine, especially if you believe in defensive metrics.

    The number he ended up working out for Trout using the same system was 7 yrs/$337M.

    Haven’t seen if he did it for Cano. That would be interesting, but as Ellsbury came in at 7/$150M and change, I’d have to assume Cano comes in much higher that.

  105. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    NEW YORK — Talks between the New York Mets and Curtis Granderson’s representatives intensified late Tuesday, and a source familiar with the negotiations told ESPNNewYork.com the organization is working to land the free-agent outfielder on a three-year deal.

  106. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    if trout was a free agent right now at his age he’d get 350 million …..maybe more.

  107. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    I honestly think the Yankees are trying to hand out shorter deals with higher AAV’s.

    ===============================

    LOL. They so aren’t doing this.

  108. blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    if Granderson will do a 3 year deal then I want him back as a Yankee

  109. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Trisha-

    It is just the way I roll.

    ;)

  110. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    nobody knows what ellsbury was being offered elsewhere. nobody knew the yankees were in heavy negotiations with ellsbury either.

  111. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Shame, I hear what you’re saying, but I think we need to be vigilant about years in a contract. The reason we’re in the position we’re in is because of signing those long-ass contracts.

    ———————

    I really don’t see a huge difference between Ellsbury signed through his age 38 season (he turns 31 this year) and Cano signed through age 39.

    We just threw $153 (possibly $169!!!) at a guy that doesn’t have a history of being able to give you a full season of baseball almost ever…. so why are we splitting hairs on Cano, our homegrown future HOF 2B?? That defeats the purpose of the Ellsbury deal.

    Give Cano what he deserves and take the next 3-4 years to figure out how to make the team more manageable budget wise after the contracts come off in 2016.

  112. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    I need chocolate…

  113. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    nobody knows what ellsbury was being offered elsewhere

    =========================

    Except for Boston, who had 5years/$100M and 6yrs/little less than $120M offers to him.

  114. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Shame-

    Maybe that’s what happens ?

    ;)

  115. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Ellsbury, Choo, and Boris probably all went out to dinner last night to celebrate… I bet Choo gets closer to 6 years – $120M now.

  116. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Taint over till it’s over.

  117. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    nobody should be surprised by the contract inflation. the teams are making much more in tv revenue and overall revenues have been continuously rising for decades. the players share will inevitably go up when this happens.

    ‘clueless bud’ has done exactly what all 30 owners wanted him to do, which is make them richer and richer. nobody can deny that he’s been succsessful like no commissioner ever has at job 1, raising revenues.

  118. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    if Granderson will do a 3 year deal then I want him back as a Yankee

    ================================

    Especially since you don’t get the comp pick for him now if he signs elsewhere.

    I’d have much preferred 3-4 yrs of Granderson to 7 of Ellsbury

  119. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    We just threw $153 (possibly $169!!!) at a guy that doesn’t have a history of being able to give you a full season of baseball almost ever
    ——
    this is simply false , out of 6 full seasons Ellsbury play almost 4 full season while hardly ever played in the other 2 seasons.

  120. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Granderson for 3/45 >>>>>>>> Ellsbury for 7/153

  121. BIG AL December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Later – Y’all have a great day!

  122. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    MTU, have at your praise of Hal and Co. However, the thing is is that it was probably Hal’s spread sheet which has convinced him to spend, so maybe it isn’t any of the above “moral” issues, but the bottom dollar that still motivates Hal. Plus the Red Sox winning (kind of a perfect storm that the Yanks contributed to bringing about indirectly through their penny pinching… and the excoriation of the Yankees roster makeup by the fan base. Yanks have taken a huge hit at the box office and declining viewership at YES has hit them in the pocketbook. Guess their idea of selling Ichiro’s hits milestone and dumpster diving wasn’t working. Humiliation and financial miscalculation has its own motivations. We’ll see what they do next. Hopefully that means signing Cano. Just do it, Yanks.

  123. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Blake
    Realistically I think the ship has sailed on Beltran. He might as well take the 3/48 from the Royals. Three years may give him a shot at the HOF, even if it’s unlikely he’ll see another WS.

  124. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    “People need to stop acting like this is Cano vs Ellsbury”

    “i dont think they’ve chosen ellsbury over cano. i think cano will be at 2b at NYS next spring like always.”

    +100

    (I hate those little “+ whatevers” by the way, but I think it makes sense to use it here.)

    The Yankees negotiations with Cano have NOTHING to do with the Ellsbury signing.

    The Yankees negotiations with Cano will continue to be a thing unto themselves. The Yankees know what their bottom line is, and it is the same bottom line – whatever it is – as it was before they signed Ellsbury.

    Cano becomes a Yankee – or doesn’t – irrespective of any of the other signings. Count on it.

    Smart money still says Robby ends up in pinstripes. (My smart money, anyway.)

    :)

  125. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Scott Boras still has it gang…..he’s the best. I don’t understand why he isn’t pretty much every player’s agent.

  126. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Can’t wait for those WM’s.

    Should be fun !

    :)

  127. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    I like trades.

    :)

  128. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “Blake
    Realistically I think the ship has sailed on Beltran. He might as well take the 3/48 from the Royals. Three years may give him a shot at the HOF, even if it’s unlikely he’ll see another WS.”

    if they aren’t sticking to 189 then they should sign him…..if they are all in then be all in.

  129. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    And I like the Yankees flexing.

    :)

  130. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    And maybe I need to reiterate this just to be sure I’ve said it: Ellsbury is a good player with some really awesome tools. I look forward to rooting for him.

    I just need Cano. If they haggle with Cano after handing out a huge overpay, I’m going to be really disappointed in the org.

    If they resign Cano I will dance naked in the streets with hundred dollar bills taped to my body.

  131. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    And I still like the potential of our Farm.

    ;)

  132. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:02 am
    I need chocolate…
    ___
    Salazon is the bomb. My new favorite. If a bit pricey…

    http://www.salazonchoc.com/

  133. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    this is simply false , out of 6 full seasons Ellsbury play almost 4 full season while hardly ever played in the other 2 seasons.

    =========================

    134 games isn’t exactly a full season, Cash.

  134. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Anthony McCarron ?@AnthonyMcCarron 5m
    Mariano said, for Christmas, he’d give Derek Jeter a female doll so he’d have a wife. Interesting. For Girardi, hair dye to chase away gray

    Mo wants to get Jeter a blow up doll for Christmas…..too funny

  135. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    And I am ready for the Yankees to get even.

    :)

    Morning Al-

    Yes. JE was quite the surprise.

  136. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Cano could be raking in Safeco Field next year.

  137. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Yanks reportedly have a mega offer out to Al Michaels to become their full time play by play announcer next year. They are really going for it!!

  138. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Blake -

    Why would Granderson sign for less than Carlos Beltran is reportedly getting?

  139. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Blake

    Granderson is >>>> than Ellsbury in only one area-power.
    He can’t beat the shift, by going the other way, he strikes out about twice as much, he doesn’t steal bases anymore, and now like Ellsbury he didn’t stay healthy. I like Grandy, but Ellsbury is a better all around player

  140. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    MTU, farm is stacked below AAA, especially at lower levels; we just have to develop them. Still loving those 2011 and esp. 2012 IFA picks.

  141. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Cano will be forgotten if he signs with Seattle…..offensive purgatory. IMO seattle will have to outbid everyone else by a lot for him to go there…….

  142. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    We just threw $153 (possibly $169!!!) at a guy that doesn’t have a history of being able to give you a full season of baseball almost ever
    ——
    this is simply false , out of 6 full seasons Ellsbury play almost 4 full season while hardly ever played in the other 2 seasons.

    —————–

    4? I see it more like 3. He’s played 3 seasons of +140 games.

    He did that in his 20s. I understand the nature of his injuries, I just don’t know why I’d assume he’d play more baseball in his 30′s than he did in his 20′s. Usually, guys get worse at that age.

    Now… if he stole some of Papi’s milkshakes on the way out, that’s a different story. But everything about science and the statistics we have tell us he probably won’t be posting up an average of 140 games per year throughout the length of this contract.

  143. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    “Why would Granderson sign for less than Carlos Beltran is reportedly getting?”

    I don’t know that he will but Granderson’s value is down and Beltran’s is inflated.

  144. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    “Mo wants to get Jeter a blow up doll for Christmas…..too funny”

    Maybe Matsui (Jeet’s bud) can lend Jeter his paper wife. :)

  145. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    “Granderson is >>>> than Ellsbury in only one area-power.”

    he’s also going to be better at making a lot less money for a lot less years.

  146. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    It’s entirely possible that the Yankees went into this winter never believing that Robinson Cano was coming back and so that’s why they’ve acted so swiftly on other fronts.

    They knew what Jay Z was going to ask for and knew the gulf between that number and the number they were prepared to offer and believe(d) that another team would overpay beyond where they were willing to go to keep him and that Cano (with an agent trying to establish himself as a serious player in the industry) was going to chase the last penny.

  147. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    MTU, how’s the pup healing?

  148. cofuzz December 4th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Maybe they’ve just given up on resetting the luxury tax.
    Have you seen the Twitter meme “YankeesSignNext”?

  149. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    pencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:06 am
    And maybe I need to reiterate this just to be sure I’ve said it: Ellsbury is a good player with some really awesome tools. I look forward to rooting for him.

    I just need Cano. If they haggle with Cano after handing out a huge overpay, I’m going to be really disappointed in the org.

    If they resign Cano I will dance naked in the streets with hundred dollar bills taped to my body
    ————

    You and Lady Gaga.

  150. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    “this is simply false , out of 6 full seasons Ellsbury play almost 4 full season while hardly ever played in the other 2 seasons.”

    :)

    Thanks Cashmoney.

    Shame, you need more than chocolate. You need to step back and breathe. Your facts are distorted and that’s a function of being too emotionally invested and not logically enough invested.

    The sun is going to come up whether or not Robby is a Yankee. (I still say he will be).

    Do yourself a favor and stop comparing Ellsbury and Cano. This isn’t a comparison game. They’re two separate entities and will be treated as such in negotiations.

    I’m sorry, but you have been one of Tex’s biggest critics and have been constantly calling for a possible trade, finding some way, any way, to get rid of him. The guy is 32 years old.

    If the Yankees give Robby 7 years and he takes it, all well and good. Otherwise, I’ll hate to see him go, but oh well.

    If they give him 8 years, it’s ludicrous IMO. But it’s their money and their decision, and I will obviously be on board with whatever they do.

  151. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    YF-

    3 steps to success FWIS in no particular order or % :

    1) Strategic acquisition of FA’s and IFA’s.

    2) Trades

    3) The Farm

    MTU speaks. And no one listens.

    :)

  152. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    “Why would Granderson sign for less than Carlos Beltran is reportedly getting?”

    I don’t know that he will but Granderson’s value is down and Beltran’s is inflated.
    ————————

    Granderson’s younger, has more power, is a better defender and, unlike Beltran, has no chronic injury issues.

    The fact that Granderson didn’t play much last year won’t preclude him from getting a bigger deal. My guess is that he winds up at 4 for $70 with an option that takes it to 5 and $85

  153. tucker December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Still believe the Rangers and perhaps the Nationals are lurking and ready to offer lucrative deals for Cano.

  154. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Salazon is the bomb. My new favorite. If a bit pricey…

    http://www.salazonchoc.com/

    ———–

    We all need to treat ourselves every now and then, thanks!!!

  155. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    YF-

    He is doing like Joba. Healing quickly and well.

    Thanks for asking.

    You know. It’s kind of crazy how much I love these dogs.

    Definitely love my one-eyed Jack.

    :)

  156. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    The fact that Granderson didn’t play much last year won’t preclude him from getting a bigger deal. My guess is that he winds up at 4 for $70 with an option that takes it to 5 and $85

    ——————-

    How does the Ellsbury deal impact the market though..?

    Beltran is looking at a $16 AAV offer… Pence $18… Ellsbury $22 (I can’t..)… I mean, does this make Grandy a $20 AAV player? I think it makes Choo a $24 per year guy.

  157. 4TrainNorth December 4th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Great, now I have Sunglasses at Night stuck in my head.

  158. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Cano better wake up soon if he wants to be a Yankee. He probably has another week or so to lower his demands or the Yanks will move on. I wouldn’t be surprised if Boras tries to throw Choo at the Yanks to stick it to Cano. I think the Yanks will raise their offer a little bit but it would need to happen soon.

  159. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    “If they resign Cano I will dance naked in the streets with hundred dollar bills taped to my body.”

    Are you being literal here?

    By the way, every fiber of my being wants Robby in pinstripes. I’d like to make an ironclad guarantee that it will happen, but I did say you could take to the bank that Montero would never be traded, so there’s that…

    I cannot picture Robby anywhere else. Neither can his dad. And maybe with the McCann and Ellsbury signings, neither can he.

    Good waiters get good tips. (not with that again! I know, I know.)

  160. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    4? I see it more like 3. He’s played 3 seasons of +140 games.
    —–
    i did not realize that’s the qualifier Shamey, so 3 and half then if you don’t think 134 games is a full season. regardless, that’s not ‘almost ever’.

    Will he average 140 games for duration of his contact? I have no idea, would Cano?

  161. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    - WEDNESDAY MORNING MUSINGS -

    (1) Glad to see reason has returned around here. Last night, most of you were doing the lamp shade routine. Tacky has no place around here.

    (2) I see No mention of 3B above. With the addition of Kelly Johnson, that is where I and my wallet would immediately go next.

    (3) We frequently talk about teams like Seattle and KC having to overpay to sign impact free agents. The Yankees have well Overpaid on both McCann and Ellsbury. Get off that thrown and face the fact the Yankees are an 85 win team that is viewed accordingly by MLB free agents.

    (4) The attaining of $189 is Always accompanied by the mention of an A-Rod 2014 suspension. At this point, it should also contain the codicil of “NO CANO”. We suffered through Hal’s nickel-and-dime approach last season with $189 being the goal in 2014. We cringed while watching Wells, Hafner, the conga line of riff-raff that paraded through 3B, all the rookies, Stewart behind the plate full time, blah, blah, blah, (wretch), all of this culminating in a sorry assed 85 wins. And now, after suffering through all that, we are going to sign Cano and forget the $189? Forget the suffering and sacrifice? Forget the paltry 85 wins? Forget NOT making the playoffs? NO WAY. The Yanks can still hit that $189, and bolster the rotation with Kuroda and Tanaka, and win a Championship. With sacrifice comes reward, but we must STAY THE COURSE.

  162. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Blake

    Point taken. However Ellsbury is still a better all around player, money not withstanding.

    If it means no Cano, then yes I’d rather have Grandy and Cano, than Ellsbury and Johnson as it currently stands. I’m going out on a limb, but I believe Cano with his full entourage will sign with the Yankees next week at the Disney resort, in Orlando.

    Then we will catch Shame on you tube dancing in the streets!:)

  163. yankeefeminista December 4th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Shame, I noticed they have a coupon (discount) online, but you can buy them at Whole Foods. The sea salt with caramel one especially rocks. Not too sweet like most caramel bars are. Kiddie fun with adult attitude… :)

  164. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    First of all, I only want to trade Tex because of salary relief and because he’s got a trade-able contract (unlike Arod) that could bring back value. Most of the arguments on here require examination of context and nuance.

    Secondly, I totally agree with this: “Do yourself a favor and stop comparing Ellsbury and Cano. This isn’t a comparison game. They’re two separate entities and will be treated as such in negotiations.”

    They’re absolutely treating these like separate negotiations and in one they’re willing to overpay to get their guy and in the other they are not.

    Besides, the market in baseball is absolutely a comparison game. Cano’s worth is directly tied to the worth of every other player on the market. That’s how markets operate. I don’t care about them overpay for

  165. Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    I am guessing 3 for 54 for Grandyman and Mets will have 12 hr press conference in announcing it.

  166. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Ugh, that last sentence should read ‘I don’t care about them overpaying for Ellsbury but why NOT overpay for a more talented player that is a Yankee…??’

  167. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Still believe the Rangers and perhaps the Nationals are lurking and ready to offer lucrative deals for Cano.
    ————

    Also the Dodgers if they trade Kemp to the Mariners or Sox. I am sure that the Sox would love to help them do it.

  168. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    The fact that Granderson didn’t play much last year won’t preclude him from getting a bigger deal. My guess is that he winds up at 4 for $70 with an option that takes it to 5 and $85

    ——————-

    How does the Ellsbury deal impact the market though..?

    Beltran is looking at a $16 AAV offer… Pence $18… Ellsbury $22 (I can’t..)… I mean, does this make Grandy a $20 AAV player? I think it makes Choo a $24 per year guy.
    —————————-

    I don’t know if you can put it all on the Ellsbury signing. Marlon Byrd got more than he should have, Carlos Ruiz got more than people thought he would, Jhonny Peralta the same…the sport is flush with new cash and owners are spending it like drunks at a Black Friday sale.

  169. CountryClub December 4th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Neither Ellsbury or Choo are 20 million dollar guys when you compare them to past players that got those kind of deals. But in this market, none of that matters. What we think players are worth and what the market says they’re worth are two different things.

  170. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 9:29 am
    Yanks really need a RH bat even if they sign Cano…..this current lineup is heavily reliant on Soriano, Jeter, and Tex against LHP.

    Corey Hart

  171. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Cashmoney December 4th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    4? I see it more like 3. He’s played 3 seasons of +140 games.
    —–
    i did not realize that’s the qualifier Shamey, so 3 and half then if you don’t think 134 games is a full season. regardless, that’s not ‘almost ever’.

    Will he average 140 games for duration of his contact? I have no idea, would Cano?

    —————

    I think of it in terms of DL stints and I assume a 130 game season means at least 2 DL stints. I could see how those parameters might be considered unfair but when you compare it to Robbie’s durability I don’t think it is given their ages are similar and they both play key positions up the middle.

    Cano at least has a history of averaging 153 games over the course of his career. So will he average 140 for the duration of the deal? Probably not. Does he have a better chance to do that than Ellsbury? All of the evidence we have so far says yes.

    Again.. love Ellsbury’s skill set, can’t wait to root for him and watch him play.. please sign Cano.

  172. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    “They’re absolutely treating these like separate negotiations and in one they’re willing to overpay to get their guy and in the other they are not.”

    Ah, but now we’re into subjectivities. Obviously they do not feel they overpaid. And maybe they feel with Cano they are already overpaying with what they’ve offered!

    See my point?

    Everything is perceptual.

    I just have faith that in the end, we’ll have Robby on the team. And since I can’t impact that one way or the other, I won’t waste any energy on it.

    I stay in my usual watch and wait mode. And whatever the result, I adjust.

    Really the only sane way to do it!

  173. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    They overpaid Ellsbury by $50m…So they can overpay their own all star HOF player…

  174. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Granderson’s younger, has more power, is a better defender and, unlike Beltran, has no chronic injury issues.”

    everybody loves Beltran’s clutchiness though…..he’s being overvalued big time IMO…..he’s a HOFer but he’s 37 and in decline. Granderson might be a better value

  175. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    “Point taken. However Ellsbury is still a better all around player, money not withstanding.”

    well yea but the money always matters…..he’s not 100+ million better

  176. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 7:59 am
    players will NEVER agree to a cap and floor.

    so you can dream about it but the yankees have to play in the real world.

    =======================================

    Salary cap stuff…

    Those in favor of the cap apparently (or unwittingly) want the “flush with new money” to remain in one owners pocket – instead of spreading it around to players….

    Owners will be fine.

    (unless they get greedy & get messed up with Madoff-types)

  177. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    “Point taken. However Ellsbury is still a better all around player, money not withstanding.”

    well yea but the money always matters…..he’s not 100+ million better
    ——————-

    Money only matters if the owner says it matters

  178. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    This is for Joeman as a reward.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/Dec42013?authkey=Gv1sRgCP-6zLe7nbL8IQ#

    Enjoy.

    :)

  179. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    The $$$ the Yanks overpaid on Ellsbury, jacked up the price on Cano. “A rising tide lifts All boats”. I see NO reason why the Yanks would do that, if they were in on Cano. The hangover persists around here.

  180. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    “Point taken. However Ellsbury is still a better all around player, money not withstanding.”

    well yea but the money always matters…..he’s not 100+ million better
    —————-

    And Cano’s not $100+ million better than Pedroia

  181. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    I’ve always been in favor of a salary cap, just because I like fairness and want to see all teams actually be able to be financially competitive. I don’t expect we’ll ever see one, however.

  182. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    “Money only matters if the owner says it matters”

    every reports says they still are trying to get under the cap….it clearly matters.

    you could probably sign Grandy and Tanaka for what Ellsbury got.

    Would you rather have Tanaka and Granderson or just Ellsbury?

  183. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Really the only sane way to do it!

    ——————

    Yeah maybe, but what would we discuss…?? :D

    Talking about this and comparing players vs. production is half the fun of the Hot Stove!

  184. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    “And Cano’s not $100+ million better than Pedroia”

    pedroia isn’t a free agent so that doesn’t matter.

  185. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:00 am
    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Shame, I hear what you’re saying, but I think we need to be vigilant about years in a contract. The reason we’re in the position we’re in is because of signing those long-ass contracts.

    ———————

    I really don’t see a huge difference between Ellsbury signed through his age 38 season (he turns 31 this year) and Cano signed through age 39.

    Ellsbury is not really signed through 38.

    Next year is his age 30 season. The 7th year of his contract is his age 36 season, which is not bad. He only turns 37 in September. He has to be playing regularly to get the option year.

  186. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    “Yeah maybe, but what would we discuss…?? :D

    Talking about this and comparing players vs. production is half the fun of the Hot Stove!”

    Good point, Shame!

    :)

  187. CountryClub December 4th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Trisha,

    Take a look at the standings for the NFL and NBA this year. Parity is another word for mediocrity.

  188. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I never thought I’d say this but I want to be like the NY Rangers who just handed out a huge overpay for King Henrik (a player well into his decline years).

  189. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Jacoby….if you’re reading this please don’t catch balls like in the picture above……that’s a good way to break your wrist and miss the whole season. Turn the glove over.

  190. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    And this one is for YT :

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/20131108?authkey=Gv1sRgCLPPrqvzlN6DuQE#

    for being a good pal.

    :)

  191. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Beltran a HOF’er??? As I said, the hangover persists.

  192. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    And this is for the whole Blog to celebrate the return of the Yankees :

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/WindWaterAndTimePhotographyGallery1#

    :)

  193. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    At least Ellsbury will shave that beard off now, he didn’t look right with it.

  194. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Absolutely beautiful, MTU. As always.

    Ellsbury isn’t a bad looking kid… our team hotness level should be pretty solid with Cano and Ellsbury (they’ll offset McCann).

  195. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I don’t want Granderson back now. The team is too left handed. Plus, I hate his 200 strike outs.

    Today, we must all agree it appears more likely the team will exceed the cap than it did yesterday or two weeks ago. That is a good thing. As has been said before, if they are going over, go over significantly.

    In order for the team to be better than last year, they needed to add better players So far they have added much better players. The willingness to spend makes me more, not less, optimistic they will sign Cano.

  196. yonkel21 December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    You think anyone in Yankeeland has given serious thought to moving Soriano back to 2B? Take the hit defensively but it would fix a lot of issues in the lineup…

  197. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    i see nothing about al michaels coming on google news, so ill assume thats a joke.

    al michaels is very good. im not a huge fan of his, but he’s quick an accurate and knows the rules.

    i think kay is kind of a poor-man’s version of him and models himself somewhat after michaels. they both have that money obsession where every joke is about who’s cheap and who splurges.

    michaels is almost 70 so you’d have to wonder if he’s start getting all sterling before our eyes.

  198. JobaTipsHisCap December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    they never learn.
    I think Mr.Jacoby will be sent to DL in next season.

  199. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    So much for JE being a laid back guy who dislikes the bright lights.

    Boom. Instant multi, multi-millionaire.

    :)

  200. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    If you want to feel better about the Ellsbury deal, read the Boston newspapers. They aren’t happy.

  201. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Thanks Shame but I bet your show will be better.

    :)

  202. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “yonkel21 December 4th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    You think anyone in Yankeeland has given serious thought to moving Soriano back to 2B?
    ==================================================

    no

  203. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    OK, I’ve got to go.
    Although I personally feel that Ellsbury does not fill an area of need, I’m happy that the Yankees are being aggressive, in this very unusual early aggressive market. Hopefully Cano comes back, but at the same time, I hope the Yankees don’t then skimp on their other many crucial needs.

    I also feel that it’s going to be difficult for the Yankees to add talented players thru trades, so I hope Cano is added, Kuroda comes back, Tanaka gets posted and signs with the Yankees, and the Yankees find a LOOGY and one more arm for the pen.

    Am I asking for too much?

    Have a great day everyone.

  204. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter SS
    Cano 2B
    Teixeira 1B
    McCann C
    Hart DH(RF/1B)
    Soriano RF
    Johnson 3B
    Gardner LF

  205. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Ellsbury signing is Damon all over again. Hopefully, the Championship included.

  206. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Mac-

    One of my neighbors is a die hard Boston fan.

    When I spoke w him last.

    His biggest fear ?

    That the Yankees would sign Ellsbury.

    Looks like his nightmare came to pass.

    :)

  207. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    I would expect any player in baseball getting hit in the ribs full speed by the man mountain Beltre is going to get hurt. I also expect any outfileder who has a full grown shortstop fall on his shoulder is going to be hurt.

    He has been injured. That is differnet thaninjury prone. One is injury prone if he is like Reyes and regularly gets hurts running the bases.

    Jeter was injury prone too when he got hurt at third base under the logic Ellsbury is injury prone.

  208. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    If you want to feel better about the Ellsbury deal, read the Boston newspapers. They aren’t happy

    ==================================

    Which is interesting since the fans from what I’ve seen and heard on the radio aren’t all that bothered by it. This is nothing like the J. Damon episode, where Sox fans were truly upset. Where they expected Damon to be re-signed, Ellsbury’s departure has generally been viewed as a fait accompli once the World Series ended.

  209. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    MTU

    I just saw the photo. Thanks. You’re right, it far exceeds the photo I sent you yesterday.

    Have a great day. take Lucky skiing.

  210. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    Ellsbury is not really signed through 38.

    Next year is his age 30 season. The 7th year of his contract is his age 36 season, which is not bad. He only turns 37 in September. He has to be playing regularly to get the option year.

    —————–

    Ohhh, gotcha. I dunno why I thought his birthday was earlier in the year. Thanks for the clarification.

  211. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    Comparing what Salty got vs McCann, shows that the Yanks are storming the Bastille. McCann is not 2X or 3X the player Salty is.

  212. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    “Ellsbury CF
    Jeter SS
    Cano 2B
    Teixeira 1B
    McCann C
    Hart DH(RF/1B)
    Soriano RF
    Johnson 3B
    Gardner LF”

    wonder how much Hart will cost…..if they stick to the budget they really can’t afford a lot more than Cano and a pitcher…..those two things will take them right to the limit.

  213. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    “If you want to feel better about the Ellsbury deal, read the Boston newspapers. They aren’t happy”

    but Pete Abe says Bradley will give them 75% the production for 2% the money……problem is who else is the in the outfield?

  214. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    I’d like Cano back.

  215. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Thanks Shame but I bet your show will be better.

    :)

    —————

    :lol:

  216. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    I would expect any player in baseball getting hit in the ribs full speed by the man mountain Beltre is going to get hurt. I also expect any outfileder who has a full grown shortstop fall on his shoulder is going to be hurt.

    ================================

    Yeah, this is a fair statement. From what I gather, people’s issues with Ellsbury didn’t center around the actual injuries as much as they did the seemingly inordinate amount of recovery time required.

  217. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Has Cashman been heard from today? Or does Randy Levine have him tied down while he makes the Ellsbury deal and other moves..

  218. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    YT-

    My pleasure. You’re welcome.

    I’m gonna give the Luckster a little more time to adjust before I take him skiing.

    :)

  219. Yankee Trader December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    I’m really going now. Blake-

    They need to budget also for in season trades and pray hard and often that ARod stays home next year.

    They are going over!

  220. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    there was always an indifference in boston toward ellsbury. alot of fans called him soft.
    the writers have been saying for years that there was no way he was going to re sign with boston.
    the plan this offseason was to let ellsbury and drew go and let bradley and bogars take over.

    of course, nothing is universal and alot of boston fans realized what a great player ellsbury was and wish they had kept him.

    and then there are tons of yankee haters who probably didnt care that much that he was leaving but then when he signed with the yankees, went ballistic.

    the reaction is pretty much as expected, imo.

  221. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    “If you want to feel better about the Ellsbury deal, read the Boston newspapers. They aren’t happy”

    but Pete Abe says Bradley will give them 75% the production for 2% the money……problem is who else is the in the outfield?

    —————–

    I think Boston fans are kidding themselves on Bradley, but I’m sure that team will make other moves.

    The reality is they’ve just won the WS and really don’t have anything to prove. Any additions over there gravy.

  222. Doreen December 4th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    When it was the end of Derek Jeter’s last contract, I had not a worry in the world, because I was convinced the Yankees had already “set aside” money for him and that the “negotiations” would be a formality. We saw how that ended up. I was aghast that the negotiations were as contentious as they were, regardless of where the contention originated.

    So I am not convinced that there is a Robby Fund. There is a Robby Limit though, and a total spending limit (even if they do go over 189) and to that extent every other free agent they sign impacts the total limit, and then, the Robby Limit, because there is necessarily overlap.

    Also, remember we were not in those meetings with Cano and the Yankees, and we don’t know what the climate was like in that room. Did either side get a sense that with some time a deal would be made, or did either or both sides start to feel like they were never going to be able to get together?

    For whatever reason, I am concerned that the more time goes by without Cano signing with the Yankees, the less likely it is too happen. The Yankees simply CANNOT wait until they know with certainty about ARod’s situation, because by that time any free agent that is currently available that could possibly help out offensively will likely not be available. Seriously, after Beltran and Choo, who is left that could be a real difference maker?

    Every single thing going on absolutely affects every other thing that is or is not going to happen.

    I think the Yankees have made a fair offer to Cano, but I think after the payday they just gave Ellsbury, the offer needs to be sweetened. And it disgusts me that they never think they have to woo their own free agents. Their attitude reminds me of the boyfriend who never says I love you because you should know that already because he’s there, isn’t he?

    To some extent, I can see how the Yankees may not feel they need to sell the Yankee franchise to someone who is already there. But these guys see other free agents getting wined and dined, opt-outs as enticements, etc., and with their own it’s just supposed to be pro forma – show up at the table, accept our offer, sign on the dotted line.

  223. blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    could it be that Ellsbury gets hurt easier when he does collide with things than other players?

  224. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    Sources: Teams on free-agent 2B Mark Ellis include #Royals, #Rays and #Dodgers – even after Dodgers declined his $5.75M option. However…

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    #Rays are an unlikely fit for Ellis, at least at moment. Difficult to see how he could end up in Tampa Bay.

  225. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    When Bradley actually achieves a level of success at the MLB level, I’ll pay him some attention. To date, the guy has been Overmatched vs MLB talent.

  226. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Shame,

    As president of Team Greedy we need you to get on board with spending. You need to lead the cheers and demand more. As Samuel Gompers, head of the CIO once said, we want more and more, here and now. That is my dogma.

    AAA,

    The Red Sox acted as if Ellsbury was shirking when in reality they didn’t properly diagnose the rib fractures. I have had a rib fracture. Good luck playing with that. He had several as I recall.

  227. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    “Money only matters if the owner says it matters”

    every reports says they still are trying to get under the cap….it clearly matters.

    you could probably sign Grandy and Tanaka for what Ellsbury got.

    Would you rather have Tanaka and Granderson or just Ellsbury?
    ———————

    Those same reports are also saying that the Yankees aren’t done and that this deal isn’t standing in the way of them making other big moves…that they’re still in on Choo, Kuroda, Cano, Tanaka and others.

  228. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    i think salty is a terrible catcher. im just going by what i’ve seen, not by any defense metrics. when i’ve seen him he cant throw anybody out, doesnt block well, doesnt frame well and we all saw what he did in the PS.

    i havent seen him that much, so it could just be that i saw him on his bad days. but the eyeball test to me says he really can’t be a starting catcher.

    and the RS apparently agreed.

  229. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Doreen…. you are a lady and a scholar. Well written post.

  230. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    “Every single thing going on absolutely affects every other thing that is or is not going to happen.”

    My position too Doreen.

    Until proven otherwise.

    ;)

  231. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Again people, Way overpaying on Ellsbury jacked up Cano’s price. The Ellsbury move by the Yanks, signaled they are Out On Cano. If they were in on Cano, they would have delayed announcing the Ellsbury signing.

  232. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Sweeny Murti:

    Brian Cashman has been told by Hal Steinbrenner that $189 is a goal not a mandate. The mandate is and remains winning a championship and $189 will not interfere with that.

  233. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    FWIW, I believe Sherman mentioned that the Cano negotiations have been pretty smooth in the sense that there’s been none of the tension that came with the Jeter negotiations.

    I mean, this is Cano’s one and only big deal. They’ve had him for a bargain for all of his career thus far. Just pay him and let’s be GREAT.

  234. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    there are also reports saying that the money is running out, cano better sign now, the yankees arent going to budge on thier offer and that cano is probably going to seattle.

    its all bs meant to attract eyeballs.

  235. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    wonder how much Hart will cost…..if they stick to the budget they really can’t afford a lot more than Cano and a pitcher…..those two things will take them right to the limit.

    MLBTR guessed about 1/8.

  236. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    bear in mind that all these ‘experts’ who want you to believe they are all hooked in and know everything that’s going on, had no idea that the yankees were only hours away from signing ellsbury yesterday.

    but now all of a sudden they are experts again who know everything that’s going on post ellsbury signing.

  237. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Kuroda is a huge priority.

    I hope we re-sign him.

    I do not want to have to resort to Bartolo again.

    Who knows how long Dr. Purita’s injections will last ?

    ;)

  238. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Please explain how we know Ellsbury was overpayed by $50M? Is someone privy to the negotiations Boras had with other teams. Is the Boston Globe wrong when they said they offered him $20M per year for six years? Does it take more money to lure someone from their former team?

    As I said early yesterday, a players value is what a team will pay. Comparing this signing to a signing in any other year is not an appropriate converation. The times and market have changed.

    No one has said this signing prevents a Cano signing. This signing tells me they get it that a poor team will lose money. I much prefer this feeling to the one that the team can’t meet the market value for players.

  239. GregD December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    I’d say this is “Hot Stove” !!

  240. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    And I really would like a 2nd lefty in the Ro.

    I’m thinking maybe Nuno out of the 5 slot w Man-ban as his piggyback.

    Or maybe they take a flyer on Anderson.

  241. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    $$$ is one thing, PLAYERS are another. As I said yesterday, the cupboard will be bare shortly, which is why I would have put Cano “on the clock”. The Ellsbury signing tells me No Cano. They have $$$ for Kuroda and Tanaka. I also believe the Kelly Johnson thing spells the end of Infante. I’m curious at this point what they have in mind at 3B ???

  242. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Since the Red Sox offered Ellsbury almost 6/120 (20 AAV), the Yankees 7/153 (22 AAV) is not that much of an overbid relative to other teams.

    I still think it’s a lot for Ellsbury, but I don’t think it’s anything like the Arod #2 contract. Arod’s contract goes through age 42 (Ellsbury 36), and the Yankees gave ARod a lot more than probably any other team would have.

  243. Doreen December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Shame -

    That’s at least good to hear, that the negotiations are going relatively smoothly. :)

    I was really caught a bit off-guard on the Ellsbury signing – that it happened at all, first of all, and the scope of it. It just seems out of kilter considering their stance on Cano. I did read, however, that the money they’re offering Cano is more than they every paid Jeter per year, but less than what they gave ARod. Which I think is about where it should be. Actually, I think 8/190-ish would be a better offer, same years as Tex, a little more money. I don’t love the 8 years, but it is what it is. And I feel like Cano, as the only real homegrown star they have, can’t be the first one they deny. Let him be the last one they indulge. Since no one is coming up anytime soon, their policies can change perhaps a bit more gracefully with no one around to challenge the thinking.

    And while Robby didn’t “carry” the team in 2013, he most certainly got them to the playoffs on his back in 2012 during that final push. (It’s also hard to carry a team that is mostly on the DL, but whatever).

  244. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    “MLBTR guessed about 1/8.”

    dont think Cano, Kuroda, and Hart could fit under the cap then.

  245. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    I may be trapped in the house today because of the cold and snow but that’s fine w me.

    I’ll just wait for the next shoe to drop.

    Perfect timing on my part.

    :)

  246. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    “Brian Cashman has been told by Hal Steinbrenner that $189 is a goal not a mandate. The mandate is and remains winning a championship and $189 will not interfere with that.”

    sign Beltran, infante, Cano, Kuroda, Hart, and Tanaka then.

  247. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    I’ll roll up my sleeves and put another pot on.

    I’ve got a Team to build.

    :)

  248. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:04 am
    “MLBTR guessed about 1/8.”

    dont think Cano, Kuroda, and Hart could fit under the cap then.

    I’m guessing 189 might be out the window. They are being pretty aggressive. They could put on the brakes, they could not sign Cano, they could go cheap on starting pitching… we’re still in wait and see mode.

  249. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Comparing a contract negotiation to “never saying I love you” ??? The hangover continues ………………

  250. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Blake-

    I think they are ready to go over if they need to to get what they want.

    How much over I have no idea.

    But I don’t think 189 is a hard cap any longer.

    ;)

  251. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    If 189 is over they need to sign Beltran and Cano…..and then 2 pitchers…..otherwise why bothering busting it open?

  252. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Yanks are playing JZ, they are using 189 as a tool and asking for the hometown discount.
    It’s on Robbie now.
    I’m sure they will up it to 7/200, almost 30m AAV.
    Will Robbie walk away for 1 more year, 20-30m when he can reach immortality and recoup that money here?
    It’s on him, not the Yankees.

    As far as wasting your money on past dumpster dives….I never looked at the Yanks as an investment but have at…

  253. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    exactly austin. nobody knew ellsbury was about to sign with the yankees when the evening news was on last night, now they supposedly know everything about his negotiations with every team.

    nobody knows what anybody else was offering ellsbury , so saying he got more than others were or would have offered is just as clueless as they were about the bora cashman negotiations yesterday.

  254. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    there are too many benefits to actually getting under the cap to not do it unless you’re really going for it……that means getting Ichiro out of the outfield and fixing the rotation. If you’re going to bust the budget then do it for a good reason.

  255. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    “Brian Cashman has been told by Hal Steinbrenner that $189 is a goal not a mandate. The mandate is and remains winning a championship and $189 will not interfere with that.”

    sign Beltran, infante, Cano, Kuroda, Hart, and Tanaka then.
    ——————

    Pass on Beltran and Infante – with you on the other three.

    For no reason other than You can’t play Beltran if you have Ellsbury, Gardner, Soriano and Hart and you can’t play Infante if you have Cano, Johnson and Jeter.

  256. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    I wonder if Cashman was told yesterday from Cano’s agent that the offer isn’t good enough and Cano has much larger offers on the table. So they are now assuming that he won’t be back and they moved on to other players. The Ellsbury deal doesn’t make sense before they find out what is going on with Cano.

  257. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    Remember, if $189 remains The Goal, that also should include room for a move or 2 at the Trade Deadline\July 31.

  258. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    If they are going to 200, then it should be 8/200 (or 8/199 to keep their word heh). If they want to sweeten it, they could offer a 9th year option that is hard to kick in, like 140 games started at 2B in the 8th year for example.

  259. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    From here I’d like :

    Cano
    Kuroda and Tanaka (if possible)
    An experienced Closer ( I wanted Nathan but Balfour might do)
    A second OF’er
    A good LOOGY
    A solid trade for the future (Owings, Olt, Bailey, Kemp, etc.)

    That’s over but who cares.

    :)

  260. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Oh. and I almost forgot.

    An A-Rod buyout.

    ;)

  261. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Balfour has a mean streak.
    Get him.

  262. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    MTU,

    It is going to be 82 degrees here today and then tomorrow get really cold with possible sleet. I prefer the warmth much like the warm feelings I have today for Hal. Of course, that can change like the weather.

  263. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    With each passing day, and with the signings\$$$ of Ells and McCann, Cano obviously pulled a boner by going with Jay-Z and 86′ing Boras. Say what you will about Boras, but the man brings home the bacon 9 time outta 10.

  264. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    They need a little more right-handed power.

    Too much pressure on Soriano and Tex.

    There are plenty of good lefties these days.

  265. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    With Kelly Johnson and Brendan Ryan, I think Infante is out of the picture.

  266. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    “For no reason other than You can’t play Beltran if you have Ellsbury, Gardner, Soriano and Hart and you can’t play Infante if you have Cano, Johnson and Jeter.”

    ok drop Hart and just sign Beltran….he and Soriano can share RF and DH. And you can play infante at 3B and make Johnson the utility guy or even a DH some days….he’s making almost nohting.

  267. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Mac-

    Only my thoughts are warm today.

    It’s freezing here.

    I can retract my apology if Hal returns to his old ways.

    ;)

  268. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Infante wants to be a starter.
    He can go start elsewhere.

  269. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    infante isn’t as critical…..the main thing now is getting Ichiro and Wells out of the outfield and getting a couple of starters. I’d love to fix the left side of the infield but that’s harder to do.

  270. Against All Odds December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Chip December 4th, 2013 at 10:56 am
    Sweeny Murti:

    Brian Cashman has been told by Hal Steinbrenner that $189 is a goal not a mandate. The mandate is and remains winning a championship and $189 will not interfere with that.

    —————————————-

    Darth Vadar lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  271. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    I’d rather have Hart for 1/8 than Beltran for 3/48. I like Beltran too, but not for 3 years. That’s a deal breaker for me.

  272. Doreen December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Yes, comparing the contract negotiation in terms of how this team (and perhaps others, I don’t follow them closely or even at all) goes about “wooing” a new player versus taking the player already once in the fold for granted.

    I think it’s a good comparison, just from my observations, and from things players say, like Andy Pettitte saying the Yankees didn’t make a fuss over getting him to resign with them, which was partly because of the elbow, but partly because they didn’t think they had to make a big effort to keep him, because he “knew” how they felt about him. Just like the Yankees are saying Cano knows they want him. It’s all about the attention and the money.

  273. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    I recommended Hart a month ago, and got trashed concerning the guy having bum wheels. Glad this place caught up.

  274. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Blake-

    Let’s what the WM bring us in terms of a young ss or 3b for the future ? Or SP ?

    We should be able to do some serious horse trading.

    We have more potential trade bait now.

    ;)

  275. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    cano is going to sign somewhere for a ton of money. if he’d rather have jay-z as his agent than boras, who cares? maybe they’re buds? maybe boras pissed him off somewhere along the line.

    remember jay-z has very good poeple doing the grunt work and they’ll keep him from making any meaningful blunders.

    cano will get paid.

  276. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Balfour and O’Flaherty might work.

    ;)

  277. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    “I’d rather have Hart for 1/8 than Beltran for 3/48. I like Beltran too, but not for 3 years. That’s a deal breaker for me.”

    I guess….just not sure what he is. He was good in 2012 but played none in 2013. This is his average split thought the last 3 years he played .279 .343 .514 .857. For 1/8 that’s certainly I risk I’d being willing to move on.

  278. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    “Infante isn’t as critical” ???? Where you gonna put him??? Kelly Johnson nixes Infante.

  279. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Please God.

    Let’s stay away from Rodney.

  280. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    I would add the following players:

    Cano
    Kuroda
    Tanaka
    Hart
    some combination of Ryan Webb, Ronald Belisario and Sandy Rosario
    and (depending on what they want in trade) Brett Anderson

  281. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    when i read you suggesting hart, my only reaction was that he wasnt available til he was cleared medically.

    now he’s cleared medically.

  282. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    MTU,
    I’d like to trade for somebody but I really don’t know if they can……we’ll see.

  283. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Heyman reports that Ellsbury does get a NTC – that makes me like the deal a little bit less.

  284. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Boras is the best in the business.

    Period.

  285. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    The dude is a serious chess playe who rarely makes mistakes.

    Damon was one the few.

  286. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Andrew Marchand ?@AndrewMarchand 6m
    Infante is still Plan B if Cano goes. Ideally, Johnson is a utility guy.

  287. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    remember jay-z has very good poeple doing the grunt work and they’ll keep him from making any meaningful blunders.

    I think that is not the situation. Like Shame says, Jay-Z does not have a very succesful agency doing “grunt work” for him. Jay-Z made an “agency” to slap his name on other people doing the real work. Jay-Z at most does the social attraction part, some people like apparently Cano want to associate themselves with stars.

  288. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    A source tells Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (on Twitter) that the Yankees not only believe they’ve got room for Ellsbury and Robinson Cano or Shin-Soo Choo, they still plan on signing at least one starting pitcher as well.

  289. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    And I still have the greeds for Puig.

    Absolute shame we missed on him.

    :(

  290. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Cano can come back if he wants.
    We aren’t trying to rip him off.

  291. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Andrew Marchand ?@AndrewMarchand 6m
    Infante is still Plan B if Cano goes. Ideally, Johnson is a utility guy.
    ——-

    My plan b would be Howie Kendrick over Infante.

  292. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    We now can consider moving a catcher, Gardner, and either Williams or Heathcott. Some combination could bring something pretty good, I would think.

    I don’t think they will add another outfielder, but I never thought they would do more than one. As others have recommended, a good left side of the infield player sure would be nice.

  293. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:23 am
    Andrew Marchand ?@AndrewMarchand 6m
    Infante is still Plan B if Cano goes. Ideally, Johnson is a utility guy.

    Meh, I’d rather just go with Johnson than spend quite a bit on Infante, then spend that money elsewhere. Better they just sign Cano though and put Johnson at 3B if they can’t find anyone better.

  294. Patrick December 4th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    blake,

    There is a budget… and then there is 189. We have seen for the last several years that the Yankee budget usually lies somewhere around 205-220 million.

    2013: $228,106,125
    2012: $209,792,900
    2011: $207,047,964
    2010: $213,359,389
    2009: $201,449,189
    2008: $209,081,577

    I think you can argue that last year was a bit higher b/c they spent a lot on one year contracts in an effort to get under 189 in 2014.

    So even if 189 is gone, there is still a budget the Yankees like to stick to. I read somewhere last night that right now we sit at 144 million + ~15 million for arbitration eligible players.

    + 26 million for Cano
    + 16 million for Kuroda
    + 15 million for Tanaka?
    = 216 million .. then add in some minimum contracts to fill out the roster

    Unless there are some significant trades coming down the line I think the above is the most we can hope for

  295. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    A source tells Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (on Twitter) that the Yankees not only believe they’ve got room for Ellsbury and Robinson Cano or Shin-Soo Choo, they still plan on signing at least one starting pitcher as well.

    well lets hope they are signing a pitcher as well because their current rotation is terrible.

  296. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Cano, Tanaka, Kuroda and Balfour, and call it an offseason.

  297. austinmac December 4th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Chip,

    I love Kendrick. He can hit.

  298. Captain Clutch December 4th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    @BobKlap

    Probably in the minority on this, but I think #Yankees willing to go over $189m to sign Cano. Then A-Rod suspension takes them back under.

  299. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Point is Jay-Z has probably prevented Cano from being a Yankee. While Jay-Z was doing his hip-hopping around, Hal simply walked away. Sure, Cano will get his coin, but he will receive it while Shivering atop the Space Needle.

  300. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 11:26 am
    Cano, Tanaka, Kuroda and Balfour, and call it an offseason.
    ===================

    That’s a great and final wish list.

  301. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    “There is a budget… and then there is 189. We have seen for the last several years that the Yankee budget usually lies somewhere around 205-220 million.”

    yes….by “budget” I mean 189…..obviously they aren’t going to spend 300 million. If there budget is their usually 220ish though and Arod gets suspended all year then they really can add a lot more under that number. This is what we hope for.

  302. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Chip-

    Cano, Kuroda, McCann, Ellsbury, Johnson should put them over.

    Choo, Kuroda, McCann, Ells, Johnson, and Infante would too I think.

    That’s even with all of A-Rod’s bucks.

    And they still would need a solid #4, and probably a good closer and LOOGY.

  303. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Potential 3b trades:

    Headley
    Davison
    Olt

  304. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    You know Boras is “The Man”, when he can dial directly into and talk with Hal. NOW, that is a guy with some Clout.

  305. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:28 am
    Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 11:26 am
    Cano, Tanaka, Kuroda and Balfour, and call it an offseason.
    ===================

    That’s a great and final wish list.
    ============================

    …forgot:

    Try to get that/those young infielder(s) from:

    AZ
    CUBS

  306. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    so you’re not arguing my point about jay-z, you’re just saying that he wont be doing negotiations?

    ok, but he says he’s going to be at the table, and he’s the one who is already being credited/blamed for everything.

    my point was that cano’s gonna get his money anyway, no matter how involved or not jay-z is.

  307. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    ok, you say cano is gone, i got that.

    i just disagree.

    we will see soon enough.

  308. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Mac-

    The Winter Meetings are coming.

    I’m ready to be wowed again anytime.

    ;)

  309. Patrick December 4th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    It would be a pretty massive mistake I think to just assume A-rod is going to be suspended. If they are basing their entire financial plan around this and then it turns out he isn’t suspended they will be pretty screwed

  310. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    I see Ellsbury as the 2nd coming of Johnny Damon with better power #’s and a better fielder.
    If he gives us 5 years thru age 35 with a bunch of rings, who cares about the last 2 years.
    Petty. But bring on the dead horsebeaters, they know better.

  311. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    I was surprised at the Rocks dealing Fowler. Depending on the price, I would of preferred him to the 7yrs of Ellsbury, and it would have left $$$ for Cano.

  312. mick December 4th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Johnny Damon Says Yankees’ Signing of Jacoby Ellsbury ‘Puts Them Right Back Into the Race Again’
    NESN.com

  313. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    “I was surprised at the Rocks dealing Fowler. Depending on the price, I would of preferred him to the 7yrs of Ellsbury, and it would have left $$$ for Cano.”

    the rockies aren’t very smart…..

  314. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Corey Hart is making more and more sense to me if he’s healthy.

  315. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    I do Not see Ellsbury as the level of player that delivers a team a Championship. He’s certainly top level, but not the kind that carries a team on his shoulders. That 1 Big HR season has carried him a long way in the eyes of most.

  316. blake December 4th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    .270 .334 .507 .841

    that’s Hart’s line from 2012 which was the last season he played…..that was with 30 homers. If he could get back anywhere close to that then it’s an incredible bargain on a one year deal if thats what it would take.

  317. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    That a boy Blake, ease that horse around.

  318. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Ellsbury will need to perk up a little if he is going to match Damon offensively with the Yankees. Damon OPS’d .841, .747, .836, .854.

  319. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    - Squatter -
    Agree with you on Kelly Johnson. To me, he and Infante are too similar to add both to the team.

  320. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    I never bought into the idea that one player carries a team on his shoulders…it doesn’t happen

  321. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    It’s a media and mythological concept.

  322. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    We have seen it with Reggie, and Giambi did it with Oakland. It can and has been done.

  323. yankinvegas December 4th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Very good point Trish about how maybe it is Cano who is screwing up the deal, not the Yankees.
    Anyway, when we sign Cano, the same writers who are screaming about how we need him will be screaming that it is a bad contract.
    Is there anything in life more predictable than Lupica, Madden, Martino and a totally irrelevant Chris Russo bashing anything and everything that the Yankees do. They are all just total professional lowlifes.
    The whole key now is to have enough money in 2018 to sign Harper and/or Trout. ALL of the Yankee current contracts will be off the books by then except McCann (in his final year) and Ellsbury.
    Hal is going after it. Screw the NY Daily News and especially that little prick Lupica.

  324. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    sorry..Reggie didn’t do it

  325. Ys Guy December 4th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    fowler has some really extreme home/away splits.

    186 ops higher at home than on the road for his career

    more than 2x the hr and rbi at home

  326. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    there were a lot of other great players on that team…and last I remember he didn’t pitch

  327. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Agree with you on Kelly Johnson. To me, he and Infante are too similar to add both to the team.

    ====================================

    Infante is a lot better and offers more flexibility, but he’d cost a lot more. I think this was a good signing.

  328. exiledintampa December 4th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    If Gardner stays, I hope Jacoby teaches him the art of base stealing.

  329. pkyankfan69 December 4th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Hart also has a lot of opposite field power so that fits perfect for a righty in YS… As a right handed DH and back up 1B he is a nice fit… From what I read it’s unlikely he will be able to play any OF at all, he was bad defensively out there to begin with. If the price is indeed very low which it seems he might be a nice fit on a 1 year deal.

  330. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Corey Hart:

    Making more & more sense.

    (to replace Wells ?….our ‘free’ player)

  331. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Point is Jay-Z has probably prevented Cano from being a Yankee. While Jay-Z was doing his hip-hopping around, Hal simply walked away. Sure, Cano will get his coin, but he will receive it while Shivering atop the Space Needle.

    ___

    Cano must be kicking himself for dumping Boras for the flash…

    Boras is the best at his job.

    Cano would have easily netted at least 225 under Boras, but he is likely now to end around 7/175 with 20 M option for 8th year.

  332. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Gardner hitting 9th with Ellsbury leading off is quite a deadly stolen base threat, would give opposing pitchers and infielders fits.

  333. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    The Cano to Seattle idea is crazy unless they offer 250. He didn’t join JayZ so he could move to Washington and fall into obscurity….

  334. Doreen December 4th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Well, clearly, in baseball a single player can’t do it all. But a player can get hot at different Times during the season and be the main contributor. In September of 2012, Cano went on a tear that seemed to carry the team into he playoffs.

    In general, in baseball, over the course of a season, it takes a village. ;). But there are players who seem to thrive more when the going gets tough.

  335. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Gardner hitting 9th with Ellsbury leading off is quite a deadly stolen base threat, would give opposing pitchers and infielders fits.
    ___

    Some days i would even consider them 1 and 2. Gardner is patient, and will give Ellsbury a chance to steal.

    Jeter doesn’t take pitches so Ellsbury won’t get as many chances to steal…

  336. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Gardner + Ells = Girardi needing retraining. A Mgr can Not wait on a 3 Run Homer with Both these players in the lineup. Girardi needs to change his managerial style with both these players in tow.

  337. Patrick December 4th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Gardner hitting 9th with Ellsbury leading off is quite a deadly stolen base threat, would give opposing pitchers and infielders fits.

    Yeah that’s pretty exciting to think about. Maybe Ellsbury can give Gardner some pointers on stealing bases

  338. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Gardner + Ells = Girardi needing retraining. A Mgr can Not wait on a 3 Run Homer with Both these players in the lineup. Girardi needs to change his managerial style with both these players in tow.

    Gardner and Ellsbury 1-2 and Ichiro 9 vs. lefties would give them fits when the lineup turns over.

  339. UpState December 4th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    “Obi-Wan Jacoby To The Dark Side”

    Love it – they’re not happy up there !

    – props to DirtDogs (Red Sox Blog)

  340. exiledintampa December 4th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    There have been times when I have absolutely hated Scott Boras. But, I have to say, I admire how good he does his job so much that it out weighs the hate. He should be the first player rep in the HOF. WTH He has done more to reshape the player contract landscape than anyone but maybe the “Boss”.

  341. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Gardner and Ellsbury 1-2 and Ichiro 9 vs. lefties would give them fits when the lineup turns over.
    -__

    Vs righties sorry.

  342. Howler December 4th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Ichiro needs to see the field rarely. They need to find a taker for him.

  343. AAA December 4th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    In September of 2012, Cano went on a tear that seemed to carry the team into he playoffs

    ===================================

    In September 2011, Ellsbury went on a tear (8 homers, 21 rbi, 1.017 OPS) that carried the Red Sox to a 7-20 record and a legendary collapse.

    It’s never just one guy.

  344. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Absolutely Jack.

    And how many balls are going to find grass with those two ?

  345. ac1 December 4th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    7/153 has upper management written all over it.
    I would guess Cashman got overruled on this one as it does not seem to go with his strategy.

  346. Mike in Harrisburg December 4th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    Here’s what the Ellsbury deal comes down to, in my opinion.

    If there’s a budget, it’s a bad signing.
    If there’s no budget, it’s a great signing.

    It can only be assessed in the context of who else the Yankees get.

    Also, if Cano leaves, I can’t help but think of what was squandered by not trading him.

  347. exiledintampa December 4th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    We haven’t heard anything of consequence from the Yankees yet on this signing. If Cashman looks like a deer in the headlights at the presser we’ll know he didn’t make this deal.

  348. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    I don’t think Gardner forgot how to steal. He was 47-9 in 2010 and 49-13 in 2011. 2012 he was out and he said last year he had some leg problems and he anticipates running more in 2014.

  349. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
    Absolutely Jack.

    And how many balls are going to find grass with those two ?

    Very few that could possibly be caught by anyone!

  350. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Yankees might lead the league in SB’s.

    :)

  351. Chip December 4th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......-contract/

  352. blake December 4th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    “Yankees might lead the league in SB’s.”

    and runs allowed if they don’t fix their rotation :(

  353. jacksquat December 4th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Left-center would definitely become a new kind of Death Valley, where fly balls go to die.

  354. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Blake-

    They are getting Kuroda ( I hope).

    Maybe Tanaka depending on how the agreement works out.

    And even w/o Tanaka there may be other good options for the 4 slot, i.e. Bailey, etc.

    I’m not worried if they land Hiroki.

    If they don’t that’s a different story.

  355. DONNYBROOK December 4th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Yeah, I would have to seriously consider the SP for Gardner trade that was paraded around here last night. That has merit.

  356. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Blake-

    Why so negative ?

    Still reeling from the JE signing ?

    They’re not done.

    ;)

  357. Tackelberry December 4th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    I just Ellsbury doesn’t try to change his style of hitting becuase of the short porch in right in YS like Texiera did. His strength is hitting the ball where it’s pitched, using the gaps and taking advantage of his speed. Hitting to the gap in LC should get him lots of doubles and triples. He’ll get his share of HRs too

  358. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    I would think GGBG can now be in play at the WM.

    As well as a young C, relievers, etc.

    Austinmac made the point.

    I agree. I think we are in a strong position to deal.

  359. Boston Jim December 4th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Sour grapes in Bos

  360. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    The Sux treated Ellsbury really badly when he injured his ribs.

    They basically implied he was malingering.

    Bet that didn’t sit to well w him considering how hard he plays. Definitely conflict there and bad feelings I would think.

    Dumb move on the Sux part.

    But that doesn’t surprise me. It’s the Sux.

    ;)

  361. Shame Spencer December 4th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    It sounds like they’re equating Choo and Cano.. which is fine on some level but not when you consider that $160 for Choo is also crazy and I’d rather just have our guy for crazy money than other guys for crazy money.

  362. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    You expect anything else out those winners.

    ;)

  363. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    ed: out of

  364. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Shame-

    Let’s see what happens.

  365. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Get that dance ready just in case.

    ;)

  366. Bronx Jeers December 4th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    This article by Chad is going viral.

  367. blake December 4th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    MTU,
    I honestly don’t know what to think or what this means…..there could be circumstances where it’ll make me happy….I’m waiting to see.

  368. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 4th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    “Please explain how we know Ellsbury was overpayed by $50M? Is someone privy to the negotiations Boras had with other teams. Is the Boston Globe wrong when they said they offered him $20M per year for six years? Does it take more money to lure someone from their former team?

    As I said early yesterday, a players value is what a team will pay. Comparing this signing to a signing in any other year is not an appropriate converation. The times and market have changed.

    No one has said this signing prevents a Cano signing. This signing tells me they get it that a poor team will lose money. I much prefer this feeling to the one that the team can’t meet the market value for players.”

    Austin, when people can’t separate logic from emotion, they come up with all kinds of weird answers. And of course signing Ellsbury doesn’t prevent a Cano signing. If you can read a post and actually hear some level of hysteria, you probably know not to pay great attention to what’s written in it. MO

    ***************

    Because an Ellsbury signing caught someone off guard has relevance where? It probably tells me you don’t have quite as much a pulse on the Yankees as you think you do.

    ***************

    “Comparing a contract negotiation to “never saying I love you” ??? The hangover continues”

    Spoken for major truth, ha ha!

    ****************

    Why ever would you sign Beltran when you have 28 outfielders already?

    ****************

    “exactly austin. nobody knew ellsbury was about to sign with the yankees when the evening news was on last night, now they supposedly know everything about his negotiations with every team.

    nobody knows what anybody else was offering ellsbury , so saying he got more than others were or would have offered is just as clueless as they were about the bora cashman negotiations yesterday.”

    Yep

    ***************

    “Cano can come back if he wants.
    We aren’t trying to rip him off”

    Exactly. It’s some of the fans who are trying to rip off the Yankees. Robby at any cost! Hogwash.

  369. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter/Ryan SS
    Cano 2b
    Tex 1b
    McCann C
    Soriano DH
    Beltran/Choo RF
    Ryan/Johnson 3b
    GGBG LF

    That lineup would give teams fits.

    :)

  370. MTU December 4th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    New one ——->

  371. pete2 December 4th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Cruz might be a better fit in RF if Beltran not available or too pricey, and if his price comes down. Then they trade Gardner for pitching. He probably won’t get you a SP’er.

    As for 3B, sign Drew and move Jeter over, or maybe move Drew to 3B as silly as that would be. He has the perfect swing for that stadium although he is another LH bat.

    Need 2 SP’ers, Colon and Tanaka. Don’t trust Jiminez since he is too erratic. Also need to bolster the pen, maybe Gardner helps get a decent arm there.

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