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Getting beneath $189 million keeps getting tougher

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

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Like it or not, cutting payroll beneath $189 million has always made sense for the Yankees. The collective bargaining agreement gives significant financial incentives to do so, and the Yankees have understandably expressed some displeasure at the idea of paying a luxury tax that’s specifically designed to help out their competition. The theoretical idea of the $189 million goal is not so much a matter of being cheap, it’s a matter of being sensible.

And there were two reasons that — despite having a ton of roster holes to fill — this offseason was a solid opportunity to get beneath that number.

1. Alex Rodriguez’s absurd contract, or at least a large part of it, could come off the books temporarily.

2. The top starting pitcher on market was likely to get a below-market-value contract because of the Japanese posting system.

Masahiro TanakaThe Yankees still have no idea what to expect about No. 1, but the situation with No. 2 has changed. Based on yesterday’s reports of changes to the posting system, there’s now a chance that Masahiro Tanaka will not be available at all. And if he is posted, he’ll be, essentially, just another free agent. The posting bid limit is low enough that multiple teams will be involved, and having multiple teams involved — none of which has been forced to pay an overwhelming posting fee — means a pretty typical offseason negotiation.

It’s not about making an offer that Tanaka will find acceptable, it’s about making an offer that he prefers over several others. And his contract will count toward the Yankees $189 million goal.

Whether this changes the Yankees approach to Tanaka remains to be seen. They certainly haven’t been timid so far. In fact, they’ve basically spent to the point that it seems almost impossible that they’ll avoid paying a luxury tax without a full-season suspension for Rodriguez, and even then it might get tricky.

But still, the goal is the goal, and it became a goal for a reason. It’s won’t be dismissed without good reason.

Derek Jeter didn’t accept his player option without a negotiation, and that landed him a slight raise. Carlos Beltran never became an easy signing, and that led the Yankees to a larger contract with Jacoby Ellsbury. Now the Robinson Cano negotiations are still ongoing, and even if the Yankees refuse to go too high, it’s clear they aren’t going to get him on the cheap. It’s not like players have been falling in the Yankees lap, which was never a reasonable expectation to begin with. Now, one of the Yankees only cost-cutting advantages has largely disappeared.

There are still very real and very obvious reasons to keep payroll low, but it seems to be getting harder to meet that goal while achieving the Yankees other stated goal of building a championship contender.

Associated Press photos

 
 

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269 Responses to “Getting beneath $189 million keeps getting tougher”

  1. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong. ”

    Lol

  2. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Ditch 189

  3. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    The Yankees will have to weigh whether by going over the threshold, they will field a competitive team that will be favored to make the playoffs , and sell more seats that have been declining the last three years.

    Tanaka alone will draw crowds to the stadium when he pitches, unless he turns out to be a total dud.

    Decisions, decisions.

    Chad

    Will they go over?

  4. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    To operate under 189 with so many other holes to fill is equivalent of having a R,R with a beat up Fiat engine, it would be beyond stupid. go to 250 Hal.

  5. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    I think Tanaka’s AAV now ends up more like $18M than $11M or $12M. Maybe higher.

    Somewhere, Yu Darvish fumes.

  6. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    There’s an excellent article on how exceeding $189 and having to pay the luxury tax might actually cost them less money than trying to stay below it.

    As Costa explains, New York’s singular spending capacity is closely connected to its unique financial circumstances. The club’s ticket sales and stadium seat licenses took a greater-than-$50MM hit last year due to missing the post-season, Costa reports. When one factors in the impact to merchandise, concessions, and future ticket sales, says Costa, the club’s massive free agent investments begin to look more like a necessity. As Vince Gennaro notes in the piece, “If the Yankees were an 85-win team or an 83-win team for three or four years in a row, they would suffer financially orders of magnitude more than any other franchise.”

  7. JobaTipsHisCap December 5th, 2013 at 9:13 am

    cashman looks like a zombie in that picture.

  8. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    My guess is that Tanaka gets 5 years and $65/$75

  9. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    @McCulloughSL: Column from our man @StevePoliti on why the Yankees need to sign Robinson Cano. http://t.co/FnG4ooG9xl

    Of course they need to sign Cano

  10. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    I think Tanaka gets 6/100 as a true FA at age 25

  11. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    He wouldn’t have a few years ago but the success of Darvish and Kuroda will push his market

  12. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    go to 250 Hal.

    ====================

    $250M is $280M. $189M is $189M

    I know (think?) you were being facetious, but making the postseason sounds like a $50M-$55M proposition for the Yankees. Is he going to spend $90M to make that $55M? And give away whatever bennies he gets from being under?

    If he does go over, I’d guess the high water mark is in the $210M range.

  13. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    AAA says:
    December 5, 2013 at 9:09 am
    I think Tanaka’s AAV now ends up more like $18M than $11M or $12M. Maybe higher.

    Somewhere, Yu Darvish fumes.

    Seriously……

    If Darvish were a FA now he’d get A ton!

  14. bigdan22 December 5th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    MLBTR is now saying that the new posting rules have been approved and the Golden Eagles have accepted the new system and Tanaka will be posted.

    Just as I predicted last night. No Japanese team would walk away from $20MM in pure profit. And I don’t even have Gammons sources to figure this stuff out :)

  15. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    I agree AAA, you basically treat Tanaka as an available 26 year old ace on the open market minus the 20. The fact is unproven in MLB keeps him below the likes of Verlander, Kershaw and others, but not too much less.

    in short, yanks will like pay the same amt as prior to posting change, except a big chunk of his posting fee will go to his salary.

  16. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    It’s not about making an offer that Tanaka will find acceptable, it’s about making an offer that he prefers over several others. And his contract will count toward the Yankees $189 million goal.
    ================
    Said it all along. Fair enough that an IFA gets to decide where he wants to play.

    Wasn’t the contract always counted toward the LT?

  17. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    JMO, Tanaka might be a more crucial piece to the yanks than Cano.

  18. Tackelberry December 5th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Yanks will need to flex their financial muscle now to get Tanaka. PLus, they must now convince him why it is best for him to come to NY. ALot tougher. Perhaps Kuroda can influence him to come here.

  19. bigdan22 December 5th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    I think Blake is close with 6/100 on Tanaka. I think the total budget I’m him under the old rules was around $120-130M. But there will be significant luxury cap implications for the Yanks and perhaps others this way (Dodgers?).

    But this is real hard to predict w/o any good recent comparables. A 25 year old just entering his prime.

  20. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    ====================

    $250M is $280M. $189M is $189M

    I know (think?) you were being facetious, but making the postseason sounds like a $50M-$55M proposition for the Yankees. Is he going to spend $90M to make that $55M? And give away whatever bennies he gets from being under?

    If he does go over, I’d guess the high water mark is in the $210M range.”

    220 is 250 though and if they make the playoffs at 220 then they’d pretty much break even with a team that’s at 189 and didn’t make it

  21. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Lower posting fee means higher contract from what I’ve read.

    Does posting fee now count toward the LT?

  22. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    What Hal wants to is make the playoffs at 189…..then he profits like 100 million more wen you count the tax savings + the playoff revenue…..but they may no be ready to do tha still

  23. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Id they added Cano and Tanaka then they might could make the playoffs if Nova and CC pitch well and if Jeter and tex bounce back

  24. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Ken Rosenthal ? @Ken_Rosenthal

    Luxury tax will apply only to salary, not posting fee. So, #Yankees would be exempt only from $20M if they signed Tanaka. Not good for them.

  25. Russell Munson December 5th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    What I don’t understand is why so many posters here understood the Yankees would lose more in revenue than they would save by getting under the luxury tax and they couldn’t.

  26. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Have to go. Enjoyed this morning.
    Have a great day.

    Until later.

  27. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Lower posting fee means higher contract from what I’ve read.
    =============================
    might mean higher contract due to competition among teams.
    every team can post 20m just to negotiate.

  28. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    The plan could be to for everything they can under this year then spend more next year as next year there may be some better options for their needs available.

    Buy Ellsbury , McCann, cano and tanaka this year…..the go after Headley or Asdrubal or Hanleu or KeRSHAW next year. I don’t think Kershaw will make it to free agency but the closer it gets the more he might want to test that market

  29. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Russell Munson says:
    December 5, 2013 at 9:27 am
    What I don’t understand is why so many posters here understood the Yankees would lose more in revenue than they would save by getting under the luxury tax and they couldn’t.

    I think they probably did but again Hal likely wanted to try to make the playoffs at 189……because that’s literally like 100 million more money in profit.

  30. Cashmoney December 5th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    AAA, i think they be around 220-230 when it’s all set and done, with LT, 250. What remain to be seen is if they will across that threshold, cuz they haven’t yet. Then, the flood gate is open.

  31. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    If the plan is to get under 189 this year with Arods help then spend big again next year then I’m cook with that…..that might be the best way to rebuild this roster quickly

  32. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    What Hal wants to is make the playoffs at 189…..then he profits like 100 million more wen you count the tax savings + the playoff revenue…..but they may no be ready to do tha still
    ———————

    Hal wants what every businessman wants – to make money. I don’t begrudge him that. I want to make money too.

    What Hal has to evaluate is whether or not the cost he faces paying the luxury tax is greater or less than the money he loses by staying under $189 and seeing fan interest dwindle and missing out on playoff revenue.

    I think that if the Yankees had made the playoffs last year $189 would be more a mandate than just a goal and he would have been content to sit through one down year. Missing the playoffs, losing out on all that revenue, I don’t think he’s prepared to do that two years in a row.

  33. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    chad’s ’10 questions’ post from yesterday got posted on the USATODAY site.

    i wonder if he gets anything extra for that.

  34. Hankflorida December 5th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    I am still intrigued with the fact that Ellsbury hit 32 home runs in 2011 which proves that the right field porch at the Stadium may be very friendly to his power. If Johnny Damon coming from Fenway could up his home runs, then it stand to reason that Ellsbury can easily duplicate those power numbers without changing his swing. An outfield of Gardener, Soriano/Welles and Ellsbury with a power lefty DH sharing the spot with Soriano when there is a lefty on the mound may be the way to go, and this leaves Suzuki out for his quest for 3000 hits.

  35. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    If the plan is to get under 189 this year with Arods help then spend big again next year then I’m cook with that…..that might be the best way to rebuild this roster quickly
    —————————

    I think there’s a hope that not only will Alex’s suspension for the whole season be upheld, but that he’ll retire rather than serve it and thus wipe the slate clean.

    I don’t think that’s going to happen – I do think the Yankees will end up releasing him though.

  36. PRDENTIST December 5th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    F…ing small market teams!! It was not enough to steal money from big market teams and keep in your pocket and not put it into payroll but now they mess you the posting system. If the small teams want more money, then they have to be forced to increase their payroll to a % of the top 10 teams. Houston is at 26 million payroll for the whole team!! WTF

  37. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Chad will be leaving us one day for a bigger job….he’s a really good writer

  38. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Hey if the Yanks sign Ellsbury, McCann , cano, and tanaka this year then sign Hanley and Lester next year then I’ll be cool with that! I just want there to be a plan and for the first time in a long time I feel like maybe they are finally getting it

  39. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    I think there’s a hope that not only will Alex’s suspension for the whole season be upheld, but that he’ll retire rather than serve it and thus wipe the slate clean.”

    He’s not going to retire….he’s made it pretty clear he wants his money and will fight this thing to the death.

    The yanks best pay back is to release him and end his career on their terms …

  40. austinmac December 5th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    I am very pleased with the signing thus far, but they will mean little if we don’t do significantly more. They need Cano, two starters and bullpen help. My fifth grade math is pretty good and I don’t see them getting under 189 if they truly intend to fill these neeeds.

    Fans will be interested to see the new players, but it always gets down to having a good team. Right now, they don’t.

    Hal, we are counting on you. Your income is counting on you. Income will slide even more dramatically with multiple non-playoff calibre teams.

  41. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Like many others (read the threads about STH giving up their tix on NYYFans), I withheld my money out of protest against how the Yankees have conducted themselves, and guess what? Not having my money cost the Yankees money, because I wasn’t buying their product any more, because their product was unacceptable.
    ================================
    Of course when ANYONE withholds their money the Yanks lose it.
    Revolutionary.
    Win, they draw.
    Lose , they don’t.
    If you don’t like the team, don’t go. Nothing new there.
    Being a STH is stupid anyway…

  42. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    My fifth grade math is pretty good and I don’t see them getting under 189 if they truly intend to fill these neeeds.
    ==================
    Mac,
    So Hal was bluffing all along.
    Gotta hand it to him…

  43. austinmac December 5th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Chad will get a bigger job in the near future. He well deserves it. Good writer and very hard worker.

    Chad, we won’t boo you even if you leave for more money some day.

  44. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    What Hal has to evaluate is whether or not the cost he faces paying the luxury tax is greater or less than the money he loses by staying under $189 and seeing fan interest dwindle and missing out on playoff revenue.
    ===================
    This should not be that complicated a calculation to compute.

  45. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Chad will get a bigger job in the near future. He well deserves it. Good writer and very hard worker.
    ==========
    Then we’d have to break in a new guy?
    Chad finally got some leverage here now he’s going away?

  46. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    What Hal has to evaluate is whether or not the cost he faces paying the luxury tax is greater or less than the money he loses by staying under $189 and seeing fan interest dwindle and missing out on playoff revenue.
    ===================
    This should not be that complicated a calculation to compute.
    ————–

    Probably not, but I don’t have access to their books.

  47. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Chad,
    We just ask that when you become big one day that you’re more Rosenthal than Buster…..don’t embarrass us ;)

  48. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Hal would like to have it both ways and stay under the cap but won’t know for sure till Alex deal is decided.

    He can’t afford to wait on that and doesn’t appear to be.

    Get Cano next …keep up the good work.

  49. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Just as long as his replacement isn’t a thin skinned closet Red Sox fan.

  50. mick December 5th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Just as long as his replacement isn’t a thin skinned closet Red Sox fan.
    ===========================
    Would all banned be given pardons?

  51. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    In the old posting system, as I understand it, you could blow people out of the water with a ridiculously high bid, and that money would not count toward the LT. The contract would ALWAYS count against the LT, but since you’re the only team, the contract terms would likely be pretty favorable.

    Now, the posting fee is reasonable, but you’re going to have to compete on the contract, which will then necessarily be higher, and be a problem for the Yankees, LT-wise.

  52. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I think the Yankees are in a better position to get Tanaka under these new rules…..but they’ll have to pay a higher AAV for him which takes a little bloom off the Rose

  53. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    With McCann, Ellsbury, Kuroda, Cano, Johnson, Tanaka, all the arbs plus money for benefits, etc.
    there is no way to be under 189.

    And that is w a full season A-Rod money.

    And that is w/o any additional BP help and no 2nd OF’er.

    Kiss it goodbye if they go this route or more.

  54. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Also seems to me that the Yankees seem to be operating hoping Alex Rodriguez does get a suspension of some length, but that they would be prepared to go over the 189 if he doesn’t.

    They can’t wait on that decision, it would totally mess up any hint of fielding a competitive team next season. So, they must have made a decision to let the chips fall where they may, and put aside the 189 if it comes to that.

  55. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    the angels are up against the cap too and the dodgers will be soon.

  56. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I can’t wait til there is a playoff in college football…..Alabama and Auburn both would smoke Ohio state

  57. blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    @AndrewMarchand: I think they should open the presser and have Hal say, “About that $189M thing, gotcha!!!… Live from New York, it’s Saturday Night!!!”

    Awesome!

  58. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    And I actually think the terms of the new posting system are more fair. Yeah, it stinks for the Yankees, but it was never fair that effectively only “rich” teams could post on a Japanese player – and it’s more fair for the player himself to be able to negotiate his best contract.

  59. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Doreen-we are on the same page.

  60. hardwired7 December 5th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    The Journal News should consider posting Chad.

    Let the Boston Globe, NYT and Chicago Tribune fight it out.

  61. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    As long as Chad doesn’t go to ESPn

  62. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    “And I actually think the terms of the new posting system are more fair. Yeah, it stinks for the Yankees, but it was never fair that effectively only “rich” teams could post on a Japanese player – and it’s more fair for the player himself to be able to negotiate his best contract.”

    It’s better for everyone except the Japanese team…..and they still get 20 million for doing nothing …..the old system was dumb and really unfair to the player

  63. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    I think an much as 75 % of the teams will make the max bid…..who doesn’t need a 25 year old starter?

  64. chicken little December 5th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    These sort of posts tick me off. Marchard essentially reports his opinion as fact. He has nothing to base this on other than most players go for the most money. Tanaka is in Japan, and as far as we know, has never once said what team in the USA he wants to play for. Perhaps he always dreamed of being a Pirate?

    @AndrewMarchand

    For those asking, Tanaka will likely go for most money. Don’t know if he has always dreamed of River Ave. or not

  65. austinmac December 5th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Mick,

    Chad may be one of the non-loyal go for the money guys. In other words, like the rest of us. Personally, I am still waiting for my bidding war.

  66. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    I wonder how much over 189 the Yankees will go ?

  67. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    @WheresKernan: #OregonState coach Pat Casey tells me all about Ellsbury’s passion and how it will play well in New York #Yankees http://t.co/xfm7xJ4y6I

  68. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    It not Ellsbury’s passion that is in question.

    It’s ability to stay healthy.

    ;)

  69. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Fill in this chart w what we already know and what is projected and subtract a full year of A-Rod and you will see 189 is Kaput :

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

    ;)

  70. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    @pgammo: Some GMs hear there is validity to Price for Walker, Franklin, 2d prospect. Others say M’s won’t deal Walker. Hmmm

  71. Russell Munson December 5th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    “I think an much as 75 % of the teams will make the max bid…..who doesn’t need a 25 year old starter?”

    Honestly, I can’t imagine why every team wouldn’t make the max bid for a player like Tanaka. If you don’t sign him, you don’t pay anything anyway.

    What they ought to do is make it that you will have to pay some percentage of the posting fee to the posting team just for making a bid. Doesn’t have to be much, but something like 5-10%. That would prevent teams from bidding just to bid and would give the Japanese teams a bit more to play with.

  72. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Felix and Price would be some front of a rotation

  73. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Not having the Farm produce on time is what killed 189 for now.

    They needed at least 1 young OF’er to have been ready by now.

    And 1 more SP than they have.

    And a C.

    They didn’t get it.

  74. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    “What they ought to do is make it that you will have to pay some percentage of the posting fee to the posting team just for making a bid. Doesn’t have to be much, but something like 5-10%. That would prevent teams from bidding just to bid and would give the Japanese teams a bit more to play with.”

    I think it would be a bigger issue though if the negotiating rights were exclusive …..if tanaka can negotiate with everybody then it’s not a big deal if everyone bids the 20 million

  75. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Blake-

    Seattle must think Aces grow on trees.

    The fact that a guy like Price is even available is pretty amazing.

    Walker is very talented but he hasn’t proven squat yet.

  76. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Tampa is just being proactive….they know they can’t sign price and he’s getting expensive in arbitration so they will trade him now when his value is very hit rather than wait until his walk year…..I predicted they’d do this two years ago…..it’s how they have to operate and they are good at it

  77. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Tanaka is going to go to whoever ponies up the biggest bucks.

    That is unlikely to be a small market team.

    They can’t afford the freight or the risk.

  78. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    To Tampa they have to trade Price when he’s worth enough to retool with…..they can’t wait until he’s a rental for a team.

  79. Russell Munson December 5th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Price is going to be expensive, may have already had his best seasons, and is on a team that churns out solid starting pitchers and can use young, cheap and talented position players.

    This is what Tampa Bay has to do if their fan isn’t going to support the team.

  80. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    If I were a betting Man I’d say Tanaka winds up with one of the large market West coast franchises.

  81. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    I think it’s either Tanaka or Kuroda now….don’t think they’ll do both.

    Think they’ll ultimately sign Cano and one pitcher then some filler if they have room…..problem is that they may not have room for much more

  82. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    If Tampa can get Walker and Franklin for Price they should probably move on that

  83. bigdan22 December 5th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    I don’t think more than 8-10 will post for Tanaka. Maybe a little less. It’s not because every team can’t afford the $20MM. They can. It’s because they don’t want to waste time. It’s the same reason a big MLB free agent doesn’t get a base offer from every team. Folks have an idea where this bidding is going to go. Probably only 5-8 teams can afford to go there. But if 5-6 teams are actively bidding for his services, and that will most def be the case, the number is going to go up fast.

  84. Bronx Jeers December 5th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    So back in Bummerville, ARod made the cover of New York magazine. Here’s the article which covers the some of the shady dealings behind this whole BioGenesis mess.

    Interesting tidbit: ARod earns about 20MM a year from non-baseball ventures. WTF?

    http://nymag.com/news/sports/a.....ndex1.html

  85. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    It’s M’s who need to get off their cans not the Rays.

    The Rays are absolutely doing what is best for them.

    The M’s can’t snag a guy like Price w/o surrendering at least one of their top guys.

    So happens that is Walker.

    Move him or lose out on Price. Their call.

    There won’t be a shortage of offers to the Rays.

  86. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    If the M’s sign Cano (though there’s a bit of speculation that they are against giving him $200 mil too) then dealing Franklin makes a ton of sense.

    Felix and Price heading the rotation would be very difficult if they get to the playoffs, but they’re still a lot of offensive production away from being there. Even if they get Cano and pair him with Seager they need Zunio, Smoak and Montero to actually hit.

  87. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    i like the new system, it’s fairer, especially to the player, and he’s the guy doing the work.

    as far as large payroll/small payroll it puts posted players in the same category as other players, so it helps the large payroll teams of course, they can afford top talent.

  88. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I don’t agree Blake.

    I think they are getting both and more.

    They are going over IMO.

    They are not going to pass on Hiroki or Tanaka.

    They will try for both. They actually need both.

  89. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    @WheresKernan: How good can Ellsbury be for the #Yankees? Bobby Valentine tells me he could be the best player on the field http://t.co/xfm7xJ4y6I

  90. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Hope you’re right MTU.

  91. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    @jasoncollette: http://t.co/9EHimDSVTA MT @jcrasnick: Hearing teams need to be in 3-year, $30 million range to engage on Scott Feldman.

    Not a bad value

  92. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Blake-

    I don’t see how it can be any other way.

    I’m not saying they’ll get both.

    Especially Mr. T because there will be plenty of solid competition for him.

    I do think the Yankees very much want him and are prepared to make a solid bid.

    I also hope they nail Bailey at the WM. Just as extra insurance.

    ;)

  93. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    I think it’s either Tanaka or Kuroda now….don’t think they’ll do both.

    Think they’ll ultimately sign Cano and one pitcher then some filler if they have room…..problem is that they may not have room for much more
    ————–

    Tanaka, Cano, Hart and someone like Tommy Hanson/Joe Saunders/James McDonald/Scott Feldman

  94. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    You can never have too much pitching.

    :)

  95. PRDENTIST December 5th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    “And I actually think the terms of the new posting system are more fair. Yeah, it stinks for the Yankees, but it was never fair that effectively only “rich” teams could post on a Japanese player – and it’s more fair for the player himself to be able to negotiate his best contract.” All this does is that the money spend on contracts will be a lot larger and subject to tax. That is the only way a small market team with benefit. I don’t see the Astros, pirates, A’s and Marlins spending 20 million just in posting fees and then another 100 million on a contract. The big boys will be the only one’s fighting it out for these future 100 million dollar players.

  96. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Nope.

    they need Kuroda badly.

    or they will be stuck w the likes of Bartolo again.

  97. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    @ajcbraves: #Braves quiet so far, still looking for SP and Uggla trade as Winter Meetings near. DOB blog. Isbell http://t.co/p6HBrxcGnE

    If the braves would eat most of the money is have interert at in Ugly as a RH DH …..only problem is he hits RHP better than LHP……never mind he’s terrible

  98. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    PR-

    Correct.

    That’s the only real potential benny to SMT’s.

    They aren’t getting Tanaka.

    Another Smelligism in action.

  99. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “Tanaka, Cano, Hart and someone like Tommy Hanson/Joe Saunders/James McDonald/Scott Feldman”

    Even that won’t fit under 189…..not even close

  100. Doreen December 5th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Bryan Hoch ?@BryanHoch 1h
    Mariano Rivera’s take on the Yankees so far: “I want to see pitching. Offense is good, but we need pitching.”(video) http://wapc.mlb.com/nyy/play/?.....eam_id=147

  101. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    with Ellsbury here would have like to see them bring back Granderson on a 2 year and package Gardner

  102. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Viva Le Mort du 189 !

    Viva Les Yankees !

    Viva Le Team Greedy !

    Viva Le Blog !

    :)

  103. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    It not Ellsbury’s passion that is in question.

    It’s ability to stay healthy.
    =================
    He has had 2 fluke injuries.
    Nothing wrong with his mechanics or conditioning.
    Doesn’t Gardner get hurt each year?

  104. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “Tanaka, Cano, Hart and someone like Tommy Hanson/Joe Saunders/James McDonald/Scott Feldman”

    Even that won’t fit under 189…..not even close
    ——————–

    Right, but again I don’t think they’re going to be hamstrung by $189.

    The alternative is to deal Ichiro’s contract for a RH bat that can DH that makes similar money or spend less on a RH DH by bringing back Mark Reynolds.

  105. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Grandy is going to the Mutts.

    ;)

  106. jacksquat December 5th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Is this Voodoo Economics day?

  107. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Mariano Rivera’s take on the Yankees so far
    =============
    Hire Mo as the bullpen coach.

  108. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Right, but again I don’t think they’re going to be hamstrung by $189.”

    This is the big question ….

  109. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    I’m thinking within the parameters of 189 until it’s officially off……

  110. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Mick-

    And the flukes might just keep coming the way he plays all out.

    Of course, I hope they don’t.

    And yes GGBG is just as injury prone.

    It’s in the nature of Gazelles like them for that to occur more frequently.

    ;)

  111. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:38 am
    @ajcbraves: #Braves quiet so far, still looking for SP and Uggla trade as Winter Meetings near. DOB blog. Isbell http://t.co/p6HBrxcGnE

    If the braves would eat most of the money is have interert at in Ugly as a RH DH …..only problem is he hits RHP better than LHP……never mind he’s terrible
    —————————————–
    possible Uggla’s K rate is worse than Reynolds…..

  112. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    Blake-

    189 is as dead as the Dinosaurs.

  113. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    If Tanaka goes to a west coast club, what’s to say all or most won’t go there in the future?
    We don’t know if there is a favorite spot to land as they have never had free will before.
    Picture some team with an all Japanese pitching staff lined up with Darvish, Tanaka, Irabu and Igawa.

  114. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    I think that $189 is out the window. The Yanks know that they have to spend money this off season to get fans back in the seats and to make the play offs. They know how much money they lost from being bad. They need Cano, 2 starting pitchers and a bullpen arm. At the least. Another bat would be nice also.

  115. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    why is it that Gardner stop with the base stealing last year….looks like he was having a hard time getting a read on the SPer

  116. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    That might be likely Mick.

    In addition to the availability of cash it has much greater proximity to their homeland.

    Visits from friends and family becoming way easier.

    Now if the Yankees want to includes unlimited jet service ?

    :)

  117. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Uggla can’t do anything…..he’s basically useless

  118. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    And the flukes might just keep coming the way he plays all out.
    ===================
    mtu

    fenway as you know plays different than YS.
    Gardners injuries were at YS on a dive in LF.
    This year in Balt on a check swing.
    I was at both games.

  119. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:46 am
    Blake-

    189 is as dead as the Dinosaurs.
    —————————————–
    said a month ago 189 was just a number…..I’ll prove it if you want me to…LOL

  120. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Now if the Yankees want to includes unlimited jet service ?
    =========
    We might have an All-Japanese team in da Bronx.
    Would that draw?

  121. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Blake –

    Lets say the Yankees do Cano and Tanaka and stop there staying under $189

    CF – Ellsbury
    SS – Jeter
    2b – Cano
    DH – Soriano
    1b – Tex
    C – McCann
    3b – Johnson
    RF – Almonte
    LF – Gardner

    Bench: Ryan, Cervelli and two out of Ichiro/Wells/Nunez

    Rotation:
    CC, Nova, Tanaka, and two out of Phelps/Nuno/Pineda/Warren

    That’s not bad.

  122. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    GGBG had leg issues last year.

    He said so himself.

    He hopes to run more this year.

    But he might just be doing it for the Reds.

    ;)

  123. Hankflorida December 5th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    blake says:
    December 5, 2013 at 10:29 am
    I think it’s either Tanaka or Kuroda now….don’t think they’ll do both.

    You may be right as the one factor that has to go into the equation is Pineda and is he ready to pull his own weight. The pitching staff would be CC, Kuroda or Tanaka, Pineda, Nova and Phelps/Warren/Nuno. The cap may still be in play.

  124. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    why is it that Gardner stop with the base stealing last year….looks like he was having a hard time getting a read on the SPer
    =====================
    not so sure he aND ells will run wild this year either with a team of hairy mashers

  125. blake December 5th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Get under the cap this year

    2015

    Ellsbury CF
    Jeter DH
    Cano 2B
    Hanley/Headley 3B
    McCann C
    Tex 1B
    Owings SS or other
    Heathcott/Austin RF
    Gardner LF (3/30)

    Kershaw/Lester, Sabathia, Tanaka, Nova, Pineda

  126. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Hopefully Ellsbury can help Gardner with base stealing. He definitely needs help reading pitchers.

  127. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Really surprised Tanaka’s team is going to post him based on the rule changes, but it’s great for us under the new system.

    At this point I’ve already bid farewell to $189, so I could care less how much we have to pay him in total payroll dollars. 25 year old top of the rotation arm? Yes please.

    Tanaka, Cano, and another starting pitcher…Colon on a short term deal? Trade?

    I’d still like Infante to be added to that bunch but they might be targeting next year’s FA class to fill their 3B hole.

  128. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    But he might just be doing it for the Reds.
    ============
    so now you like the phillips idea? ;)

  129. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    i like gardner but one thing that bothered me all season was that he somehow just can’t time his jumps at the wall to steal homers. on several occasions this year he was unable to get up and get HR balls that were catchable. he either mistimes his jump, or more often crashes into the wall on his way up, preventing him from reaching over and grabbing the ball. i remember a very catchable ball just barely over the utility scoreboard the he should have had, but once again, he crashed into the wall, preventing him from catching it. its frustrating because with his speed and instincts, he gets in the area of alot of super cheap homers and if he could grab a few it could make a difference of a couple of games over the course of a season.

    i hope ellsbury knows how to grab a ball over the wall.

  130. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Yes. Prove it Joeman.

    Go right ahead.

    Maybe some of the doubters here will become more convinced that it is not possible to build
    the complete Team w/o going over.

    :)

  131. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    With 189 out of the way we can still be the team players want to play for.
    sort of like the grateful dead or allman bros of baseball.

  132. AAA December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Over/Under on number of teams that post the full $20M = 10

    I’d say over.

  133. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:51 am
    GGBG had leg issues last year.

    He said so himself.

    He hopes to run more this year.

    But he might just be doing it for the Reds
    —————————–
    hope

  134. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    why is it that Gardner stop with the base stealing last year….looks like he was having a hard time getting a read on the SPer
    =====================
    not so sure he aND ells will run wild this year either with a team of hairy mashers

    —————

    Gardner was on YES a few weeks back and said he was having some leg issues that prevented him from stealing as much as he would have liked and he plans to do more of it this season.

  135. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    i remember another ball bouncing off the very top of the OF fence at YS that gardner was under but smacked his glove into the padding forcing him to miss it too. very frustrating from such a great fielder!

  136. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    Joeman-

    And if it is a good and convincing proof I’ll give you another Bobcat award.

    That would be the 2nd.

    :)

  137. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    I highly doubt that the Yanks will get Tanaka under the new rules. The Cubs, Dodgers, Rangers and others will most likely blow the Yanks out of the water.

  138. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    and im sure garnder plans on working on his bunting in ST this year too…. :roll:

  139. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    i hope ellsbury knows how to grab a ball over the wall.

    ————-

    I hope our pitchers give up less HRs.

  140. mick December 5th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    i remember a very catchable ball just barely over the utility scoreboard the he should have had, but once again, he crashed into the wall, preventing him from catching it. its frustrating
    ==================
    Also Soriano plays LF well.
    At the game in Balt when they got to within a game of the WC, he made a great catch in Left that saved the game.
    I know b/c I was there and saw it with my own eyes ;)

  141. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:54 am
    Yes. Prove it Joeman.

    Go right ahead.

    Maybe some of the doubters here will become more convinced that it is not possible to build
    the complete Team w/o going over.
    —————————
    you know that’s a lot of work

  142. Mottsx December 5th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Do we see Mark Montgomery in the bullpen next summer? He was consider the next David Robertson. His slider was amazing but his walk total went up and his arm fatigue was scary last year

  143. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    blake – On the open market, given the talent available next year, Gardner probably can get more than the deal you proposed (3/30) but that wouldn’t stop me from trying to get him to sign that deal right now. I do really, really, really hope Austin finds his way up in 2015, but having Gardner signed is nice insurance.

  144. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Mick-

    All it means is that players will be back to seeing the Yankees the correct way.

    As the winners they always have been.

    Not some tight a*s small-market imitating out-of-the-playoff hunt non-contender.

    :)

  145. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    gardner’s a great OF, dont get me wrong, its just frustrating when his glove is within inches of a ball but bad technique prevented him from making a griffey catch.

  146. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Not some tight a*s small-market imitating out-of-the-playoff hunt non-contender.

    :)
    ================
    Hal played us like a drum.
    Now he’s doing it to Cano.
    He still might get under tho’.

  147. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    It takes money to make money.

    And making money makes you profitable.

    And being profitable gives you power.

    And power is good because you can crush the opposition.

    See. I’m good at logic.

    :)

  148. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    MTU December 5th, 2013 at 10:55 am
    Joeman-

    And if it is a good and convincing proof I’ll give you another Bobcat award.

    That would be the 2nd.
    ———
    you won’t take my word I said it about 20 times..I have a habit of repeating my thoughts

  149. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    And crushing the opposition leads to more rings.

    And more rings means you’re the Yankees.

    Simple.

    ;)

  150. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Blake –

    My guess is that this is Jeter’s last ride.

  151. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    I think at Least 20 teams will make the max bid

  152. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    And because I think it’s Jeter’s last season – I think that’s the other reason why $189 is out the window this year. It was bad enough for the Yankees to let Andy and Mo walk away without the playoffs – they’re not going to let that happen with Cap.

  153. PRDENTIST December 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    “I highly doubt that the Yanks will get Tanaka under the new rules. The Cubs, Dodgers, Rangers and others will most likely blow the Yanks out of the water.”

    I would have to agree! At 10-12 million a year, it was worth the risk but not at 15-18 a year.

    It pisses me off that the posting system was changed in the first place. The top 5 teams ave. 181 payroll. if the small markets were forced to have their payrolls at least 55% of that, it would be 99 million. Right now 15 teams are under that amount. There are 6 teams under 70 million.

  154. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Joeman-

    I’m convinced.

    It’s some of the others.

    No need to prove it to me.

    Prove it to THEM.

    ;)

  155. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    blake – On the open market, given the talent available next year, Gardner probably can get more than the deal you proposed (3/30) but that wouldn’t stop me from trying to get him to sign that deal right now. I do really, really, really hope Austin finds his way up in 2015, but having Gardner signed is nice insurance.”

    Yes Id consider offering him that as an extension

  156. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Chip-

    +1

    Terrible shame to let Mo and AP go out that way.

    That better not happen again.

    ;)

  157. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    This may be Jeters last ride sure but it’s hard to predict next year…..the point of that lineup guesstimate on is that spending big two offseasons might be preferable to 1 in the long run.

    If getting under the cap this year would allow them to spend more next year then maybe that’s better

  158. 4TrainNorth December 5th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Time to accept that Gardner is just a dummy. Great athlete, no brains.

  159. joeman December 5th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am
    Joeman-

    I’m convinced.

    It’s some of the others.

    No need to prove it to me.

    Prove it to THEM.
    —————————————-
    sounds like a plan

  160. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Who is better positioned to assume risk than a large market Team ?

    And who is the richest of the large Market Teams ?

    I rest my case.

    :)

  161. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    @msimonespn: Stats to know that you might not know on newest Yankees C Brian McCann http://t.co/MPDO1cMiXR

    Perhaps getting to DH a little will help with those slow finishes

  162. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    @BillShaikin: Smith: ex-#Angels prospect, traded to KC for Callaspo. MT @Ken_Rosenthal: #Brewers trade OF Norichika Aoki to #Royals for LHP Will Smith.

  163. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    @mikeaxisa: Aoki probably takes the Royals out on Beltran, no?

    Still would love to see Beltran in RF if the budget is over

  164. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    It is going to be fun to be envied, feared, and hated once again.

    In essence, to be the Yankees again.

    The best Team that money can buy.

    That’s how it should be, N’est pas ?

    :)

  165. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    If Kuroda decides Not return to the Yanks in 2014, Hal may decide to spend that roughly $15 Mill on Tanaka. You guys are writing off Tanaka becoming a Yankee, Far to quickly, and Far to early in an entirely New process. You must let things play out a bit.

  166. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 9:15 am
    @McCulloughSL: Column from our man @StevePoliti on why the Yankees need to sign Robinson Cano. http://t.co/FnG4ooG9xl

    Of course they need to sign Cano
    ______
    Actually great article by Politi; it sounds like the Yankees are doing the exact same thing they did with Jeter the first time around, trying to paint the player in a greedy light and disrespecting him. That “he loves the money” quote as the first thing out of Cashman’s mouth and the general disparaging way the Yankees have gone about these negotiations kind of again points to a troubling modus operandi when it comes to the way the Yanks do business:

    “You wonder sometimes: Do the Yankees want to sign Cano? Or do they want to prove a point at his expense? Are they trying to woo him? Or are they trying to embarrass him?

    Because they sure have a weird way of showing their affection, and this was well before they added Ellsbury. For weeks, in public comments and off-the-record leaks, they’ve portrayed their last homegrown star as a player interested in greenbacks far more than blue pinstripes.

    “He loves the money” was the direct quote from GM Brian Cashman, as if it’s a unique position for a professional athlete. Cashman spent that entire weird interview last month referring to Cano as only “the player.”

    Negotiations aren’t supposed to be friendly. Baseball is a business. We get it. Still: Both sides are doing what they’re supposed to be doing — i.e., trying to get the best deal — but only one seems angry about it.”

    And as for floating the Cano isn’t a draw bs. No, he isn’t the draw that Mo or Jeter are/were, but that is like comparing the Pope to the Archbishop of New York. People do come to see Cano play. He sells the Yankees jersey, and was a top ten jersey seller in 2012. 2013 was skewed by all the Mo jerseys sold, Jeet only finished 7th, while Mo was first. But Cano still in second half finished in the top 20. I for one would have to seriously reconsider attending games if the Yankees don’t re-sign Cano.

    Hopefully, the Cash/Levine-esque negotiating tactics are their strategy to save money, but can they for once not trash their homegrown player while in thug-negotiating mode. Is that too much to ask?

  167. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    No more Mr. nice guy.

    :)

  168. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Hal w the kick to the rest of baseball’s groin.

    Ouch. That hurts doesn’t it.

    :)

  169. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Still would love to see Beltran in RF if the budget is over
    ================
    I can still see that happening.
    We both want each other.
    Last chance.

  170. JT December 5th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Nobody forced them to make a ridiculous deal with Ellsbury. And the if you look at McCann’s last 3 years of bWAR, they are extremely close to Russell Martin’s. And Martin could have been signed for half the AAV and less years than McCann.

    They keep digging themselves into these holes.

  171. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Now that the Royals just got an outfielder they might be out on Beltran. If so the Rangers and Sox are probably in on Beltran.

  172. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Hopefully, the Cash/Levine-esque negotiating tactics are their strategy to save money, but can they for once not trash their homegrown player while in thug-negotiating mode. Is that too much to ask?
    ==========
    Please stop the conspiracy theories.

  173. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    The Yankee Fan Base walked The Green Mile in 2013. This means the Yanks MUST get under the $189 in 2014.

  174. Russell Munson December 5th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Since Ellsbury gets hurt often, who is the backup CF if the Yankees trade Gardner?

  175. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Ichiro.

  176. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Look.

    See that.

    189 kicked thru the goal post for a score.

    Awesome kick.

    :)

  177. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    @jasoncollette: Aoki has hit leadoff in 1076 PA’s & has a slash line of .291/.360/.403. Only Choo has a higher OBP as leadoff guy over past 2 seasons

    Pretty nice get for the Royals

  178. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    mick, why would Politi be involved in a conspiracy theory. Sounds a little paranoid, no? :mrgreen:

  179. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    People do come to see Cano play. He sells the Yankees jersey, and was a top ten jersey seller in 2012. 2013 was skewed by all the Mo jerseys sold, Jeet only finished 7th, while Mo was first. But Cano still in second half finished in the top 20.
    ==================
    I guess they weren’t wearing those jerseys to the game.

  180. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    @NYDNSports Hank Gola: NFL refs finding it harder to stay under the radar: http://nydn.us/18nWYra

    This article reminded me of a random sports thought: I dunno if there was much discussion over that Giants/Washington situation, but I find it amusing to watch any analyst talk about ways to improve the game and make sure stuff like this doesn’t happen (applies to literally every sport). I do not understand what type of technology they think we need to fix the problematic officiating in all of the major sports but I am certain that technology already exists. How many more generations before we see sports embrace technology effectively..?

  181. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    If GGBG gets traded Yanks will reel in Choo.

    ;)

  182. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Sounds a little paranoid, no? :mrgreen:
    ===========
    1st tell me what that green face means i’m paranoid.

  183. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Cano doesn’t sell jerseys like Jeter but people come to YS primarily to see the Yankees win….and cano helps them win.

  184. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    The Yanks final offer to Cano will probably be 7/$175m with a vesting option for an 8th year to take it to $200m. If Cano says no to that then I can’t blame the Yanks. That is a very fair contract and plenty for Cano.

  185. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    It would be wonderful to get Cano back assuming he is willing to come down some more on his demands.

    But if he won’t Choo + Infante would be solid replacements.

    I’m hoping for Robbie.

    But I can deal w the alternatives.

  186. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    @mikeaxisa: Aoki probably takes the Royals out on Beltran, no?

    Still would love to see Beltran in RF if the budget is over
    ——————

    Royals still sign Beltran.

    Yankees trade Nunez, Phelps and Campos to KC for Billy Butler.

  187. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Cano helps them win and is part of a TEAM and the TEAM is the thing man…

  188. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    gardner’s ‘only’ made something like $5M so far in his career and he’s just about to turn 30.

    he might just grab at an offer significantly less than he can made as a FA now, just for the security and also because he might just like being a yankee and not want to go through all the uncertainty.

    or he might just say, no way, but its worth a shot. if they had gardner at 2/$20 left on his contract in next year’s market he would be a much more valuable trading chip than he is right now.

  189. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Agree. Somebody must have pulled a Brinks Job on All the Cano jerseys.

  190. Russell Munson December 5th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Cano is 2-3 wins better than Choo because of position.

    Infante + Choo might be about the same as Cano, but it will cost more per year and will take up two roster spots instead of one.

  191. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    CC-

    +1.

    If they go there I bet he takes it.

    ;)

  192. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Lots of people wear Cano jerseys/t-shirts at NYS. He is beloved there. Mick, next time, bring your calculator.

  193. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    “Yankees trade Nunez, Phelps and Campos to KC for Billy Butler.”

    I think we have enough DHs …..and that’s way might for butler anyway

  194. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    You either get excited about the TEAM or you don’t.
    If they were a losing TEAM they wouldn’t fill the park to SEE Jeter.
    Maybe if they brought Mantle, Ruth , Gehrig or DiMag back fans would flock
    but that wouldn’t last either b/c those corpses wouldn’t win either..

  195. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    The team is the thing and Cano needs to be a part of the team. No one is debating team vs. Cano. Stop making things up.

  196. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Infante + Choo might be about the same as Cano, but it will cost more per year and will take up two roster spots instead of one.”

    Yes….cano + Choo is better!

  197. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    “Yankees trade Nunez, Phelps and Campos to KC for Billy Butler.”

    I think we have enough DHs …..and that’s way might for butler anyway
    —————–

    Beltran would be another DH.

  198. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    There were more Cano jerseys in front of their TV sets than at the Stadium YF .

  199. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    My guess would be Seattle has come to the realization that they are bidding against themselves at this point. They essentially are now “passing” in the negotiations with Cano, just waiting to see if anyone is actually behind the curtain.

  200. JT December 5th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Over the past six seasons (2008-13) Ellsbury has averaged 113 games played per season.

    Cano has averaged 160.

  201. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: #royals like aoki as leadoff option, believe he can play cf. not done dealing. still very much interested in beltran.

  202. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Munson-

    They need an alternative.

    That’s one of them.

    Who frickin’ knows what Robbie is gonna do ?

    We can only try our best w our best offer and the rest is in his hands.

    ;)

  203. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    blake, he doesn’t have to sell jerseys like Jeter. Jeter is the #1 jersey seller in mlb with the exception of this year, when Mo’s retirement made his #1. Cano sells jerseys, just not to the extent that an icon like Derek Jeter does.

  204. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Butler would Add\$$$ significant payroll. NOPE

  205. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    who cares how many jerseys cano sells.

  206. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    mick, probably true about Jeter jerseys too. What is your point? Yes, fewer people are attending games…

  207. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    blake, he doesn’t have to sell jerseys like Jeter. Jeter is the #1 jersey seller in mlb with the exception of this year, when Mo’s retirement made his #1. Cano sells jerseys, just not to the extent that an icon like Derek Jeter does.”

    Agreed….my point was merely the most important thing is they win and cano is a big part of that

  208. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    The Cano “jersey” pitch sounds like something outta Boras. Is that you, Scott ???

  209. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    blake, yep. Sign him, Yanks.

  210. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Beltran is still in play.

    He wants to be a Yankee because it’s his last chance for a ring.

    He’s never had one. He wants one.

    The Yankees are a better chance than the Royal flushers.

    A deal is still possible.

    Stay tuned.

  211. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Butler would make the lineup markedly better and more balanced though

  212. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    if the yanks keep signing winning players and get phillips to play 2nd, nobody will miss cano.
    only if they lose.
    then they will be out telling you I -told-you-so.

  213. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    When Cano starts closing in on crazy career milestones people will start to appreciate just how incredibly consistent the guy has been since day one.

  214. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    I wouldn’t mind being Scott Boras

  215. Howler December 5th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    I wouldn’t give up a lot for Butler

  216. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Shame, one would hope. But they didn’t with Po, so maybe not.

  217. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    They can’t force Cano to sign.

    They’ll up their offer is my bet. But there is a definite limit, and I think they are close to it.

    If that isn’t enough then there is nothing more the Yankees can do.

    The choice then becomes Robbie’s.

    If he has a more lucrative offer in a place he is comfortable playing then more power to him.

    It’s a free Country.

    ;)

  218. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Obviously, Beltran is not Hot on playing for KC.

  219. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    @DPLennon

    Rakuten Eagles president spoke to media in Japan Thu and said they will have internal discussions to see if it makes sense to post Tanaka.

  220. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Cano might be thinking he’s staying here all along.
    Just trying to get the most he can get.
    Like Costanza said to Seinfeld:
    “It’s negotiating Jerry. Negotiations.”

  221. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Why should the Yanks up their offer ??? Right now, all the Yanks see is their offer vs Seattle’s. Jay-Z has placed the Yankees in the “catbird”, and his client stuck between a rock and …………………

  222. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Who doesn’t appreciate Robinson Cano ?

    Are you saying the Yankees don’t ?

    My bet is they’ve shown him 200 hundred million reasons they love him.

    If that isn’t enough love for him then that’s his call.

    That’s a lot of love where I come from.

    A ton of love.

    If he thinks someone else is willing to offer more have at it.

    More power to him.

    :)

  223. J. Alfred Prufrock December 5th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    And as for floating the Cano isn’t a draw bs. No, he isn’t the draw that Mo or Jeter are/were, but that is like comparing the Pope to the Archbishop of New York. People do come to see Cano play. He sells the Yankees jersey, and was a top ten jersey seller in 2012. 2013 was skewed by all the Mo jerseys sold, Jeet only finished 7th, while Mo was first. But Cano still in second half finished in the top 20. I for one would have to seriously reconsider attending games if the Yankees don’t re-sign Cano.
    ////

    Not re-signing the Archbishop could have grave consequences :)

    Yeah, lots of Cano jerseys in Yankee Stadium.

  224. Captain Clutch December 5th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    I think all of this limit and $200m stuff is coming out because the yanks know that they are bidding against themselves. If they know that another team is seriously involved they will up the offer a little bit but not much.

  225. Howler December 5th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    I wouldn’t be hot on playing for KC either…all along I didn’t think he’d be taking that deal even with the money they were offering him…last years of a career you really don’t want to be buried in the middle of nowhere.

  226. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Selling a jersey is an indicator of popularity. Duh. I think Boras or any player agent would and should include that in their player selling points.

    Ichiro I believe was friggin third last season. Don’t you think the Yankees realize that?

  227. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Mick-

    Possible.

    Maybe even likely.

  228. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    i like that the royals are really trying hard to compete. they won 86 games last year, so i can see why they feel they’re close.

    i dont think they’re as close as they seem to think they are, though. there’s just alot of dead wood in that lineup.

    moustakas has been a huge disapointment so far, escobar is a zero with the stick, getz, cain give them nothing. upgrading in RF with beltran (for lough, francour or lohud hero justin maxwell) is a must.

    aoki would be a really nice add for them if they land beltran (who seems to be dragging his feet hoping a contender will outbid them)

  229. J. Alfred Prufrock December 5th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    ydnar December 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    if the yankees sign cano they are back to being the yankees.

    right now they are in the middle of a reconstruction that accomplishes nothing without cano.

    it’s really just a waiting game right now to see what the yankees will do.

    or what cano will do.

    not much to say until that shoe drops.
    ///

    Yes indeed. This is the mirror image of my take :)

  230. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    CC, and they likely know that Cano wants to play in the Bronx.

  231. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    I have NEVER talked to a Yankee fan that said they went to a Yankee game, (Home or Away) to see Cano.

  232. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    With the LT doesn’t Ells contract come to more than 200m?
    Cano > 1/4 billion?

    Bet he still wants to stay under…

  233. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Wanzies had what I thought was a funny line yesterday evening.

    I’m paraphrasing but he said that Cano wants to be a “Rock star” and that there are no rock stars in Siberia (Seattle).

    :)

  234. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    “Rakuten Eagles president spoke to media in Japan Thu and said they will have internal discussions to see if it makes sense to post Tanaka.”

    Translation…..we are going to whine around for awhile because we don’t like the new rules but ultimately we want that 20 million bucks

  235. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Someone here believes the Yanks signed Ichiro to sell jerseys? Just what souvenir stand does Ichiro do this at.

  236. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    I’m paraphrasing but he said that Cano wants to be a “Rock star” and that there are no rock stars in Siberia (Seattle).
    ==================
    lots of grunge rock out there

  237. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Blake-

    +1

    :)

  238. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Someone here believes the Yanks signed Ichiro to sell jerseys? Just what souvenir stand does Ichiro do this at.
    =============
    I think I saw him at Bald Vinny’s the other day.

  239. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    You know that Presser today will be filled with questions about the $189.

  240. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Mick-

    :)

  241. mick December 5th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    You know that Presser today will be filled with questions about the $189.
    =======================================
    Let’s just hope McCann doesn’t blow up at a Latino reporter.

  242. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    DB-

    Only two words needed.

    “It’s dead.”

    ;)

  243. Ys Guy December 5th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    yankees fans go to see the yankees win.

    they will win alot more with cano.

  244. JT December 5th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Career OPS Career OPS+

    Sandberg .796 114
    Morgan .819 132
    Alomar .814 116
    Kent .856 123

    Cano. .860 125

  245. GregD December 5th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Have we signed Cano yet? I was hoping we would while I was bringing home the bacon……

  246. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    They can win a ton w Choo and Infante too.

    ;)

  247. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    “Rakuten Eagles president spoke to media in Japan Thu and said they will have internal discussions to see if it makes sense to post Tanaka.”

    Translation…..we are going to whine around for awhile because we don’t like the new rules but ultimately we want that 20 million bucks

    ————————

    I really dunno why this is the foregone conclusion… people understand the NPB makes money right? And that their players are worth money the way our players are worth money…?

    If the Eagles think they can win another championship next year with Tanaka as opposed to without him, that revenue alone might be worth not posting him. We don’t know what the numbers are.. maybe someone else can provide more clarity on this.. but if the Yankees lost out on $50 million in 2008, there’s a good chance a championship in NPB is worth more than $20 million.

  248. wanzies222 December 5th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Thought I’d jump in real quick…

    Observations:

    1) Brewers trade Aoki to make room for Hart (on a hometown discount, which he offered).
    2) Royals trade for Aoki (great get… improves their D tremendously), boxing Beltran in.
    3) Beltran didn’t sign when he had the chance the other day; hence, it’s not about money he will never spend…it’s the bling.

    Later.

  249. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    I believe currently the $189 is in play. I will believe the $189 is Dead if\when the Yanks ink Cano.

  250. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Nobody is demeaning Cano’s excellence IMO.

    No player is worth what he is asking for.

    And he isn’t getting even 225-250 mil from the Yankees.

    If Seattle or some other Team want to go there that’s up to them.

  251. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:50 am

    I really dunno why this is the foregone conclusion… people understand the NPB makes money right? And that their players are worth money the way our players are worth money…?”

    I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion but 20 million is about half their payroll and clearly he wants to leave

  252. Chip December 5th, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Billy Butler is owed $8 mil this year and $12.5 next year (or a $1 mil buyout)

  253. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Will you believe 189 is dead if they ink Choo and Infante instead ?

    Because it would mean the same thing.

    ;)

  254. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    The $$$ you guys are talking about Cano getting from the Yanks, can be spent on SP and still render a payroll under $189.

  255. MTU December 5th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Blake-

    I think they go the route you suggested.

    They do a “Scioscia” for a while and then post him.

    20 million of something is better than 50 million of nothing.

    ;)

  256. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Choo + Infante = Dead, Yes. The Yankees Priority should be SP if the $189 is still in play.

  257. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 11:54 am

    I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion but 20 million is about half their payroll and clearly he wants to leave

    ——————–

    He clearly wants to leave…? Or the team clearly wanted to post him when they thought they’d be getting a higher bid than Darvish? Because I dunno that we can assume what his motivations are with the information we have.

    Couldn’t they just post him next year instead and make another run? That still gets them the $20 million and they get another year of their best pitcher.

  258. Patrick December 5th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Jayson Stark wrote a good blog post about the Yankee payroll: http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/.....t-pay-cano

    After calculating everything he comes up with … (includes A-rod’s salary) “Which would seem to leave them between $21 million and $31 million to spend on Cano, Hiroki Kuroda, a bullpen arm and another starter — ideally, Masahiro Tanaka.”

    Cano will make in excess of 25 million, Kuroda will make at least 15 million, Tanaka will make at least 15 million …

    Even if you take A-rod out this year I don’t think they have enough money to field a playoff team and stay under 189.

  259. Tackelberry December 5th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Red Sox have signed Rihgyt reliever Edward Mujica to 2 year 9.5 mill deal. Thats a good pickup for them.

  260. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    This is how my math looks:

    $20 million – your best pitcher/biggest star = $20 million

    $20 million + one year of your best pitcher/biggest star = $20 million + another winning season

    Why would you do option 1 if you could ‘settle’ for option 2?

  261. wanzies222 December 5th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    DONNYBROOK -

    WADR – Do the math. They are at 183 w/Arod… take him out if you’d like and they are at 150. Gotta add 25 ish for Cano or Choo/Infante (low), then the 16 that is on the table for Kuroda. Now, conservatively, you’re at 191 w/o another 200 IP, bullpen help, Jeter’s bonuses, etc.

    Toast.

  262. J. Alfred Prufrock December 5th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    “He loves the money” was the direct quote from GM Brian Cashman, as if it’s a unique position for a professional athlete. Cashman spent that entire weird interview last month referring to Cano as only “the player.”

    Negotiations aren’t supposed to be friendly. Baseball is a business. We get it. Still: Both sides are doing what they’re supposed to be doing — i.e., trying to get the best deal — but only one seems angry about it.

    “It’s a question of, does (Cano) want to be a Yankee, or is he just about the money?” someone described as a “baseball insider” told ESPN New York, as if these two things have ever been mutually exclusive.

    Ellsbury is a fine upgrade now, even if they end up with another $20 million utility player in 2019. Brian McCann, who will be introduced Thursday, gives them power behind the plate again.

    But the Yankees have already spent nearly a quarter of a billion dollars this offseason without accomplishing their two priorities. They need to improve their starting pitching. And they need Cano.

    The offseason is a failure without keeping him, and now fiscal responsibility is no longer an excuse. This isn’t a team taking baby steps toward a parade. The Yankees are making it rain again in baseball, announcing with these deals that they’re still the ultimate win-now-and-worry-later franchise.

    So how can that end with anything but Cano in uniform?
    ///

    It can’t.

    While it’s not incumbent upon the Yankees to give Cano unlimited love, they are going to have to pay him to keep him, and they are veering dangerously into “dis” territory with all the stupid, undercutting crap they’ve been pulling since they tried to humiliate Jorge Posada.

    We have seen an anonymous source tell Bill Maddon that “Hal hates the players…” How do you overlord a group of employees whom you not-so-secretly “hate”, and actually have any passion for what they do?? If he “hates” the players, he must feel antipathy for what the players do: play baseball.

    So any comments about Hal being “like his father” are just wishful nonsense. Hal doesn’t like seeing his profit margins slide, and perhaps we can give him credit for realizing that he and his austerity plan, in addition to his GM who has done nothing of note since 2010, are responsible.

    Great. The Cashman comment, as well as all the other shots taken at long-standing players, show the Yankee ownership/management team to be bullies. They have no class, that’s just the reality. Fine. Just sign Robinson Cano, and let us watch baseball in peace. The less I see or hear from these suits, the better: they’re not the Yankees to me, the players are.

  263. blake December 5th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    “He clearly wants to leave…? Or the team clearly wanted to post him when they thought they’d be getting a higher bid than Darvish? Because I dunno that we can assume what his motivations are with the information we have.”

    wouldn’t you? He could get a 100 million dollar contract in MLB

  264. Hankflorida December 5th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Joe DiMaggio was a quiet man who kept to himself, and yet fans came out to see him play because he could hit and get to balls in the outfield that most center fielders would not even get near. Cano can hit and make spectacular plays at 2nd, and if that does not draw fans, I do not know what will.

  265. DONNYBROOK December 5th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    I look at that $150 and forget Cano and Choo. The focus shifts to $$$ for 2 SP’s.

  266. yankeefeminista December 5th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    As for the t-shirt comedians… the reference to t-shirt sales were relevant to my discussion about Cano’s popularity but if you want to get all tangential: that second year of Ichi’s contract isn’t all about his play on the field. If he gets that hits record we signed him to, don’t you think the Yankees are zeroed in on rolling out the commemorative t-shirt and other merchandise in order to sell sell sell and milk the Ichi milestone for all it is worth? …. If you actually go to NYS you’d know that all the Yankees do is push merch on the big screen to the crowd for 1 continuous hour before the game at such a heightened volume that if you don’t cover your ears, you’ll go deaf… If you get there two hours early at least you get to see some great historic Yankee highlights, but that viewing is short-lived…

    Back to the original point, Cano is popular, so stop spinning it otherwise, Yanks. Yankees fans want him back even if the Yankees want to spin it that “Robbie loves the money.” The Ells’ signing is a waste of ink without Cano in the Bronx. Sign Cano!

  267. jackamir December 5th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Beltran is next….130 games in RF……Gardner is a “goner”……..

  268. GregD December 5th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    I don’t agree that the Ellsbury signing is a nothing sign if they don’t sign Cano……..let me be clear….I want them to sign Cano but I see the Ellsbury signing as insurance for the possibility that we could lose Cano…….if we wait and wait, Cano could sign elsewhere and all other options are gone………

  269. kschappert December 6th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    Yanks obviously willing to spend money just spooked by years ( and rightly so)–Cano not well liked by fans great player but carried the impression of that “I couldn’t care less” attitude and, in the end, he couldn’t have


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