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Cashman notes: Rotation market, trading Gardner, retiring Torre’s number

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Maybe I’ll try to get some of the longer quotes posted a little later. For now, here are the takeaway notes from Brian Cashman’s afternoon session with the beat writers.

Brian CashmanBasic stuff from Orlando

• Does Cashman expect to leave Orlando with another new player either on the roster or with a new contract in place? “I don’t know,” Cashman said. “I’d like to be able to leave with a number of players. I just don’t know if that will happen or not yet.”

• The Carlos Beltran signing is still not official, so Cashman would not talk about it. Wouldn’t say when he’s scheduled to take the physical, or whether Beltran has passed a physical.

• As he’s said all along, Cashman said he’s not shopping Brett Gardner, but he’s listening when other teams ask about Gardner. “We have an obligation to hear what anybody’s interest happens to be,” Cashman said. Teams have also called to ask about Ivan Nova, J.R. Murphy and Gary Sanchez (presumably among others). Cashman obviously did not go into detail about what teams are offering in exchange.

• Cashman said he has talked to the agents for Mark Reynolds and Boone Logan. Did not indicate whether he’s close to a deal with either. “But we’re talking to a lot of people,” Cashman said.

Plans for the lineup

• Cashman said he doesn’t envision an everyday designated hitter, and — if the outfield stays like it is — no regular outfield alignment either. “I think that Joe will utilize the DH category to give everybody a rest,” Cashman said.

• Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “… But there’s a comfort level knowing that we have an improved depth situation there that gives us some flexibility.” Cashman said he’d still like to add even more depth-type moves, but some of those might have to wait until late in the offseason or even in spring training.

• Although the Yankees have added quite a few hitters this season, and presumably gotten Mark Teixeira healthy, Cashman said he’s not satisfied with the offense. He wants one of the two or three best lineups in baseball, and the Yankees aren’t there year. It’s not simply a matter of plugging holes at second and third, Cashman wants more legitimate offense. “We need more work there,” he said. “We need to keep going.”

Thoughts on the pitching staff

• The Yankees still want another starting pitcher, but neither the trade nor free agent market is great at the moment. “We certainly could sign a free agent starter,” Cashman said. “Signing one might be easier than trading for one, we’re just trying to find the right one.” Cashman said he’s heard no updates on the Masahiro Tanaka situation. Hasn’t even heard officially that there’s a new posting system in place.

• Michael Pineda is healthy and will come to big league camp looking for a rotation spot. Manny Banuelos is also healthy, but the chances of him breaking camp on the big league roster are pretty slim. “Our expectation would be that he would be in Triple-A,” Cashman said.

• Although he’s not necessarily in the market for a closer, Cashman acknowledged that he’s looking for bullpen help. He specifically said he’d like a left-hander to upgrade on the current lefty options. Right now, Cesar Cabral and David Huff look like the best bets on the current roster.

Other random stuff

• So far, so good in terms of freak accidents this winter. Cashman said no one has been hurt this offseason, no surprise surgeries scheduled or anything like that.

• The Yankees will absolutely retire Joe Torre’s number at some point. “We haven’t given it out for a reason,” Cashman said. “It’s been tucked away for quite some time. At some point, that’ll happen, not doubt about it. Clearly it’s has already unofficially happened.”

Associated Press photo

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437 Responses to “Cashman notes: Rotation market, trading Gardner, retiring Torre’s number”

  1. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    I would make Soriano the primary RF and Beltran the primary DH, actually. I think the media/fan perception that Beltran is a better option in RF is largely based on reputation. He’s one of the worst OFs in the league and Soriano’s solid LF play should translate ok to RF.

    I like Beltran to RF at NYS/Camden, Soriano to RF on the road in bigger parks. Beltran has the better arm so I think he should get some reps there, plus not certain how he will perform at DH.

  2. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    “When does a team ever stop in the beginning of Dec though?”

    when they hit their budget…..that’s the thing….they are almost at the 189 mark already (they are already way past it if you county Arod) so either they are pretty much done or they are going to go over it.

  3. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Bill Shaikin ?@BillShaikin 9m
    #Angels send Trumbo and PTBNL to #Diamondbacks, per source

  4. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Bernie Pleskoff ?@BerniePleskoff 4m
    Deal done. Trumbo goes from #Angels to #Dbacks. Eaton goes to #WhiteSox and Skaggs and Santiago go to #Angels. Don’t know of other players.

  5. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    A look back at some Cashman comments:

    1. He said he wouldn’t have done the Bobby Abreu deal if they didn’t get Corey Lidle too. Really? He wouldn’t have traded garbage to the Phillies for a RF he desperately needed unless they included Corey Lidle? Horsepoop.

    2. He felt almost instant buyer’s remorse in making the trade for Damaso Marte and Xavier Nady. No he didn’t. He gave up one prospect who was a headcase and a couple of back end pitchers for two guys he needed.

    3. The Yankees weren’t going to be able to sign another big ticket item after signing Burnett and CC. A few days after that comment was made, Tex was getting fitted for pinstripes.

    4. Jesus Montero is going to be a catcher long term. Not even close. The Yankees buried him at AAA and didn’t even let him catch when he was a September call-up.

    It’s not Brian’s job to tell us what he really thinks or to update us on things he has in the works for the team. It’s his job to make the team better and if reporters want to ask him stupid questions like “what players are you in on?” or “what’s the outfield alignment going to be?” then they’re going to get stupid answers.

  6. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Angels get Skaggs back

  7. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Bernie Pleskoff ?@BerniePleskoff 4m
    Deal done. Trumbo goes from #Angels to #Dbacks. Eaton goes to #WhiteSox and Skaggs and Santiago go to #Angels. Don’t know of other players.
    ———————

    I would right now get on the phone with Rick Hahn and Kevin Towers and try to get Keppinger out of Chicago for Cervelli and salary relief and Davidson out of Arizona for whatever the heck they want.

  8. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    The two nuggets from Cashman that are good are the health of the pitchers.

    If Pineda’s able to regain his pre-injury form then that gives you a solid 1 – 4 in the rotation even without Tanaka and if Banuelos is also back up to speed in AAA then the Yankees might still have something there.

  9. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    “You say a lot of things that are incorrect. If you stop saying so many incorrect things, I will be happy to stop responding to your comments.”

    no I give opinions that you disagree with and then you feel the need to respond…..as I’ve told you before if you want to debate things then I have no problem with that because pretty much everything I write I can either explain why I feel that way or back up…..your opinions aren’t fact either and the condescending tone you present them with is nothing I care to respond to.

    Either discuss things respectfully or don’t…..drop the snark..

  10. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    • Does Cashman expect to leave Orlando with another new player either on the roster or with a new contract in place? “I don’t know,” Cashman said. “I’d like to be able to leave with a number of players. I just don’t know if that will happen or not yet.”

    _____________

    That makes every GM think he has nothing. NOTHING. The correct way to spin negotiations would be to say that “I’m honestly hopeful. I feel confident. I feel good. I believe I have some things in the works, and I like some of them more than others, but of course GM’s can always make necessary additions and last minute subtractions to make deals more attractive.”

  11. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    I don’t get this deal for the Angels really at all…..but I guess I just don’t value Trumbo as much as some. To me he’s basically a younger Mark Reynolds…..1 tool…..gives you nothing but RH power.

  12. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Angels made out on that one.

    ;)

  13. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    It sounds like Cashman is going to add a 2nd basemen, since he keeps talking about offense. Too bad it took 5 years for him to realize that it had to be addressed.

  14. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    How does this deal impact AZ? Couldn’t they just deal Prado for a leadoff CF?

    Now that they have Trumbo in the OF, there’s no point in putting Prado out there to make room for Davidson at 3B.

  15. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Blake-

    I see him as Adam Dunn lite w/o the OBP.

  16. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Chip December 10th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    MTU –

    The issue with the pitchers is bigger (IMO) than the one with the position players.

    I firmly believe that the organization under Nardi Contreras doesn’t know the first thing about developing a starting pitcher and that when/if it happens it is by sheer accident. I had hoped that with the Gil Patterson hire things would change, but it appears that Patterson actually reports to Nardi and not the other way around.

    ________

    As I mentioned yesterday, perhaps the biggest player development failure by the Yanks over the last five years was allowing Quintana to get away. Someone should have gotten fired for that.
    —————-

    Nah, a bunch of teams passed on him. That stuff happens. He was a minor league free agent putting up solid numbers in the low minors. It’s like saying they screwed up letting Christian Garcia go; it happens.

    The biggest screw ups in player development were in draft picks – picking pitchers with injury problems like Andrew Brackman, Scott Biddle and Ty Hensley is just wasting picks. Reaching on Cito Culver and Dante Bichette is just as bad.

    And, of course, there’s the actual development of high end pitchers once they’re in the organization whether it’s Humberto Sanchez, Al Horne, Joba Chamberlain, Dellin Betances, Phil Hughes, Manny Banuelos…they’re all mishandled.

    _______

    Wrong and wrong. Garcia never had the consistent success in the minors Quinny had. And all of his success was tainted by injury. Other teams passed on him? Sure, but none of those teams knew Quinny (or should have) like the Yanks did. They had him for four years. He was successful all four years finally dominating as a 22 year old left-hander in high A. Go look up his peripherals. This is the exact type of young pitcher the Yanks should be targeting in their minor league system. Perfect for Yankee Stadium.

    And his major career will be miles better than any of those pitchers you mentioned. Book it.

  17. Howler December 10th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Players will be added and subtracted…the budget hasn’t been figured out as to what players will be here and where it’ll be allocated. I think you’ll see some players from the minors fill in some relief spots like you do most years in ST. No one would’ve predicted someone like Shawn Kelley coming in either, who for the most part had a pretty good year.

  18. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    I don’t get this deal for the Angels really at all…..but I guess I just don’t value Trumbo as much as some. To me he’s basically a younger Mark Reynolds…..1 tool…..gives you nothing but RH power.
    ——————–

    What’s not to get?

    Angels get a couple of young pitchers that they desperately needed for a one trick pony. Gives them options like getting Choo to join Hamilton and Trout in the OF or Cruz to DH or any number of other things.

  19. pat December 10th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    “The Carlos Beltran signing is still not official…..”

    I believe I read they are at 40 so waiting until after the Rule 5 draft or until they know for sure who they are going to cut loose makes sense.

  20. kd December 10th, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    blake,

    i think you may be right. they’re about done. if they can trade ichiro, they may sign a 2b. if not, it’s nuney and a prayer. i also think they know something about arod that we don’t, like he’s not coming back in ’14. or longer.

    the 189 must have been a plan. they’ve gotta be really sick of subsidizing other teams to drive the price up on them

    kinda remind me of the red sox in the late 90′s, always two players away.

  21. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    “What’s not to get?”

    I meant to say I dont’ get it for the Dbacks…..I like it a lot for the Angels.

  22. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Towers confuses me…..

  23. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    D Backs should insist that Towers immediately undergo a drug test. Dude is outta his head.

  24. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    So if the D-backs send Eaton to the White Sox, can we send Gardner there for Prado?

  25. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Towers and Kenny Williams love to make trades. I don’t get the deal from the W.Sox or D’backs point of view.

  26. Pat M. December 10th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Man Matt looks like he’s bilked down quite a bit since the last time I saw him on the links back in 03

  27. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    How does this deal impact AZ? Couldn’t they just deal Prado for a leadoff CF?

    Now that they have Trumbo in the OF, there’s no point in putting Prado out there to make room for Davidson at 3B.
    ————————-

    It makes no sense for Arizona.

    They have Trumbo, Parra, Ross, Pollack in the OF.

    Goldschmidt at 1b and Prado at 3b both block Davidson.

    Gregorious at SS and Hill at 2b block Owings.

    I would love for the Yankees to get both Hill and Davidson or Owings and Davidson – I’m not sure what, other than a package started with Ivan Nova gets it done.

    That said, if Pineda and Banuelos really are healthy – maybe you gamble and deal Nova, go all in on Tanaka and hope that your rotation shakes out with:

    CC
    Kuroda
    Tanaka
    Pineda
    Phelps/Nuno

  28. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Good thing Towers didn’t stay in the Yankees organization. He would trade every prospect that they had.

  29. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    I wish Towers would restrict his trading to the NL. All he’s doing is making the Yankee competition better. That trade is one of the Worst is a Long while.

  30. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    pat December 10th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    “The Carlos Beltran signing is still not official…..”

    I believe I read they are at 40 so waiting until after the Rule 5 draft or until they know for sure who they are going to cut loose makes sense.
    ——————-

    Rule 5 doesn’t impact the 40 if the Yankees aren’t making any picks.

  31. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
    Towers confuses me…..

    ——————-

    Maybe he lost his magic

  32. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    I wonder who it is that Cash thinks he can get that would really improve the offense at this point.

  33. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    “no I give opinions that you disagree with and then you feel the need to respond”

    The problem isn’t with your opinions, but the misinformation that you use to support it.

  34. chicken little December 10th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Towers’ problem seems to be he either was told he can’t spend big money on Choo, or knows if he spends big money on Choo, he has no money left to fill other holes. So, he went for Trumbo — best low cost bat on market.

  35. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Towers has made a lot of weird trades the last couple of years.

  36. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “…

    _______

    If Johnson is more of a bat than a glove, his defense must rival Nunie’s. The last three years his average was .222, .225 and .235. He has no platoon splits either, hitting lefties sometimes better than righties.

    Not sure I can trust you to build a top offense with that type of analysis.

  37. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Parra, Gardner, Trumbo is a nice OF

    with Davidson, Gregorius/Hill/Owings at SS & 2B and Goldschmidt at 1B with Miguel Montero catching.

    Yankees get Prado

  38. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    “The problem isn’t with your opinions, but the misinformation that you use to support it.”

    anyway…..

  39. Pat M. December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    That’s Matt Williams I’m referring too ….Sorry for the distraction as the pool service is cleaning up due to this past weekends storm. Electric Blue is the color for today

  40. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “…

    _______

    If Johnson is more of a bat than a glove, his defense must rival Nunie’s. The last three years his average was .222, .225 and .235. He has no platoon splits either, hitting lefties sometimes better than righties.

    Not sure I can trust you to build a top offense with that type of analysis.
    —————-

    Dan,

    He doesn’t hit for average but does put up power numbers.

  41. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    If I am a GM for any team in MLB, and I see that trade has gone down, I’m banging on Towers door Immediately and stealing whatever D Back players remain that are worth fleecing. Drugs usually wear off.

  42. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Madden had Johnson last season and played him sparingly, which tells you something.

  43. Howler December 10th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    DB…send him some “special cookies” and open up negotiations a couple hours later. Especially if your from Seattle or Colorado where those are legal now.

  44. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Gardner and Betances to Arizona

    Ross and Davidson to the Yankees.

    Arizona sheds some payroll, Yankees get a starting 3b for the next 5 years and an OF capable of playing CF if need be.

  45. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Madden had Johnson last season and played him sparingly, which tells you something.
    —————–

    He played in 120 games and got 400 at bats…that’s not really “sparingly”

  46. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Chip,

    If the idea is for AZ to “shed payroll” why not Prado instead of Davidson?

  47. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “…

    _______

    If Johnson is more of a bat than a glove, his defense must rival Nunie’s. The last three years his average was .222, .225 and .235. He has no platoon splits either, hitting lefties sometimes better than righties.

    Not sure I can trust you to build a top offense with that type of analysis.
    —————-

    Dan,

    He doesn’t hit for average but does put up power numbers.

    ___________

    Count me among the folks who don’t believe in the .220 power hitter Rob Deer type of offense. That’s not the Stick way. The way of the late 90′s Yanks. Again, as I said, makes me question whether Cash is the right person to build a top offensive team.

  48. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Take out Prado’s one off year (not sure if injured) and he’s a .300 hitter. The man earns 11 million per year.

  49. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Chip,

    If the idea is for AZ to “shed payroll” why not Prado instead of Davidson?
    ——————-

    2 Reasons:

    1. They just traded Justin Upton and Chris Johnson for Prado a year ago – they’re not going to salary dump him now.

    2. I would rather have Davidson and take on Ross’s contract

  50. JobaTipsHisCap December 10th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    4 WS champs weigh more than the biggest choke in MLB history, I think.
    but Torre’s name is associated with that choke forever.

  51. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    I johnson platoon with a Baker type might be the best they can do at 2B…..they still need somebody to play 3rd

  52. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    “2. I would rather have Davidson and take on Ross’s contract”

    it’s still unclear how much money they can take on…..

  53. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    SportsCenter ?@SportsCenter 5m
    We regret that a graphic posted earlier on Twitter misrepresented a Curtis Granderson quote on what he’s been told about NY and Mets fans.

  54. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Count me among the folks who don’t believe in the .220 power hitter Rob Deer type of offense. That’s not the Stick way. The way of the late 90?s Yanks. Again, as I said, makes me question whether Cash is the right person to build a top offensive team.
    ———————-

    you don’t want a whole team of guys like that, but having 1 or 2 isn’t going to hurt.

  55. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS 46s
    #reds now back in in their guy bronson arroyo. #twins, others in, too.

    if they bring back arroyo it would make it easier to move Bailey

  56. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “I would right now get on the phone with Rick Hahn and Kevin Towers and try to get Keppinger out of Chicago for Cervelli and salary relief and Davidson out of Arizona for whatever the heck they want.”

    I think Keppinger probably rebounds from a terrible 2013 (60 wRC+ and -1.5 fWAR), but I’m not sure he’s actually worth trading for. Projected for about 1 WAR in 600 PAs by both Steamer and Oliver. Unfortunately I guess that he might be the best they can do at 3B (probably better than Young or Reynolds).

    I think that Cervelli for Keppinger would probably be overpaying, to be honest. He’s probably comparable in on-field value, but due $8.5M the next two seasons.

  57. pat December 10th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “Rule 5 doesn’t impact the 40 if the Yankees aren’t making any picks.”

    Is there no one on the 40 that would be eligible for the Rule 5 if not on the 40?

  58. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    “2. I would rather have Davidson and take on Ross’s contract”

    it’s still unclear how much money they can take on…..
    ——————–

    Not that unclear – they’ve said the same thing over and over again; $189 is a goal, not the goal.

    But I understand you’re going to be skeptical until the Yankees actually go over it.

  59. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    1. They just traded Justin Upton and Chris Johnson for Prado a year ago – they’re not going to salary dump him now.

    _____________

    I don’t see the logic in that? Pass on upgrading your team because you don’t want to admit a mistake?

    Gardner would be an upgrade over any of their OF aside from Parra and Trumbo. Parra-LF, Gardner-CF, Trumbo-RF is a solid OF.

    They could keep infield prospects across the diamond with Davidson, Gregorius, Hill, Owings and Goldschmidt.

    They were in on Choo so they have some money. Maybe if they subtract 11 M more (Prado), they will have enough for a starting pitcher.

  60. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    FWIW – Cody Ross is due $17 mil over the next two years with a $1m buyout or $9.5 mil option in 2016.

  61. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    “But I understand you’re going to be skeptical until the Yankees actually go over it.”

    I am yea…..there are two conflicting things that they keep saying. We’ll have to see which it actually is

  62. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Tampa Bay was fighting for a playoff spot in Sept, and Madden had Johnson frequently on-the-pine. This is why actually Watching MLB games beats merely Looking at numbers.

  63. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    pat December 10th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “Rule 5 doesn’t impact the 40 if the Yankees aren’t making any picks.”

    Is there no one on the 40 that would be eligible for the Rule 5 if not on the 40?
    ———————–

    Doesn’t work that way. The Yankees would have to designate a player for assignment to take him off the 40 man roster – which means any team could claim the player on waivers rather than try to draft him.

  64. Howler December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Okay…x-ray time…hope something interesting happens in my absence.

  65. UpState December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “…

    _______

    If Johnson is more of a bat than a glove, his defense must rival Nunie’s. The last three years his average was .222, .225 and .235. He has no platoon splits either, hitting lefties sometimes better than righties.

    Not sure I can trust you to build a top offense with that type of analysis.
    —————-

    Dan,

    He doesn’t hit for average but does put up power numbers.

    ===========================================

    Kelly Johnson : (2013)

    FWIW : RISP = .291

    (This is a good sign)

  66. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Chip,

    So AZ is more likely to trade Davidson over Prado? Really? Trade your top prospect so you can save face on a bad trade? Talk about throwing good money after bad.

  67. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    “I’m hopeful that all this stuff they are saying is just spin for leverage….obviously they don’t want to let players and other teams know how much they are willing to spend……but when Levine says that 189 is still a goal and that they are budgeting to still pay Arod then that’s impossible……because they are already past that. Either they have no idea what they are talking about ….or it’s an act…..I guess we will find out soon enough.”
    ________

    I understand the “spin for leverage” approach but when you say something that is patently false, like you can hit 189 with Arod’s salary, you lose all credibility and therefore the leverage. It’s all about the next move. But if they really are intent on cutting payroll, I don’t know how many moves they can make. If you have no money and no prospects, how what kind of trades or acquisitions can you make? Pure dumpster diving I guess, but there’s not even a lot of money for that.

  68. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    I think it’s hard to predict what the Dbacks will do at this point….

  69. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    “I understand the “spin for leverage” approach but when you say something that is patently false, like you can hit 189 with Arod’s salary, you lose all credibility and therefore the leverage. It’s all about the next move. But if they really are intent on cutting payroll, I don’t know how many moves they can make. If you have no money and no prospects, how what kind of trades or acquisitions can you make? Pure dumpster diving I guess, but there’s not even a lot of money for that.”

    true

  70. Zach S December 10th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Can we please stop retiring numbers? Joe was great and deserves a place in monument park, but retiring numbers is really getting ridiculous. Another 50 years there will be a player wearing #100. This goes for #20, 21, 51 that are out of rotation too.

  71. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Read yanks asked about Dustin Ackley. Wouldn’t mind getting him. Firmer first rounder and suffered as a mariner…. He is better than what he has showed there

  72. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    No it’s not hard to predict, Blake.

    Prado makes the most sense to be on the block.

    Davidson is their top prospect and Prado is worth more in a trade than he is in the OF. Gardner is a clear upgrade to their OF and gives them a leadoff hitter.

  73. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Tampa Bay was fighting for a playoff spot in Sept, and Madden had Johnson frequently on-the-pine. This is why actually Watching MLB games beats merely Looking at numbers.
    ————————-

    He started 26 games combined in July and August and 9 in September.

    Did he slump at the end of the season? Yes and that’s why he was benched. That and because Wil Myers and Matt Joyce were playing very well and Luke Scott was back at DH.

  74. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    “Read yanks asked about Dustin Ackley. Wouldn’t mind getting him. Firmer first rounder and suffered as a mariner…. He is better than what he has showed there”

    agreed….he hit .304 in the 2nd half last year…..maybe he was figuring things out finally.

  75. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Based on the Burst of free agent signings the Yanks made, I believe a little birdie has told them what to expect regarding A-Rod’s Appeal.

  76. Chip December 10th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Chip,

    So AZ is more likely to trade Davidson over Prado? Really? Trade your top prospect so you can save face on a bad trade? Talk about throwing good money after bad.
    ———————–

    You’re talking about a team that in consecutive offseasons has traded away Justin Upton and traded for Mark Trumbo. I fully believe they’re committed to Martin Prado over Matt Davidson.

  77. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    I’d have interest in Prado but I just don’t see them dealing him….they like him and they want to win.

  78. jacksquat December 10th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    The Yankees went out on black friday, bought some expensive gifts, then realized they are almost out of money and they’re only half done.

  79. Patrick December 10th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Kevin Towers is not a smart man

  80. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Blake,

    Of course they want to win.

    They won’t lose any production by trading for Gardner, dealing Prado and starting Davidson while freeing up 11 M for other things.

    Gardner + Davidson + 11 M or Prado?

    That’s a real simple calculation to decipher imo

  81. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Luke Scott was another MIA most of Sept. You continue to prove my point. Baseball is actually a Beautiful game to watch.

  82. I am Brett Godner December 10th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    The ‘I am happy withe the team we have but I am always looking to make moves to improve the team’ line is the GM equivalent of a player saying ‘ I just go out there everyday and play hard for the team and the good lord willing we win the game’. I honestly can’t believe anyone is making a fuss about that.

  83. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    I should say

    Gardner + Davidson + 7 M (Prado – Gardner)

    or

    Prado + Eaton

  84. Zach S December 10th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    And Torre hardly ever wore his actual jersey on top of it. Giardi wears his a lot more then Torre did.

  85. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Let’s just say hypothetically they use the 7 M for Eric O’Flaherty.

    What helps the D-backs win more?

    Gardner + Davidson + O’Flaherty

    or

    Eaton + Prado

  86. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    The more I look at that deal, the Worse it gets.

  87. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Which combination of players would you rather have, Blake?

    Gardner + Davidson + O’Flaherty

    or

    Eaton + Prado

  88. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    “They won’t lose any production by trading for Gardner, dealing Prado and starting Davidson while freeing up 11 M for other things.”

    I think they’d rather have Prado than Gardner

  89. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    The statements about wanting to add but also wanting to stay under 189 don’t jive.

    The only way they can get good inexpensive players is to trade other good inexpensive players like gardner and nova, which would be sideways moves.

  90. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    “Which combination of players would you rather have, Blake?

    Gardner + Davidson + O’Flaherty

    or

    Eaton + Prado”

    probably the latter…..but it doesn’t matter what I want.

  91. pat December 10th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Buster_ESPN
    Diamondbacks have offered Joba Chamberlain a one-year deal worth close to $3 million.

  92. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    That’s not the comparison blake. A gardner/Prado trade affects the whole budget and the whole roster, not to mention their future (Davidson)

  93. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Zach S December 10th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    “Can we please stop retiring numbers? Joe was great and deserves a place in monument park, but retiring numbers is really getting ridiculous. Another 50 years there will be a player wearing #100. This goes for #20, 21, 51 that are out of rotation too.”

    ________

    I think the solution to that is “mirror image” numbers. Then they can re-issue all the retired ones. They had to do that for Gary Cooper. When the Coop played Gehrig in Pride of the Yankees he had to bat right-handed because he couldn’t fake left-handed swinging. He wore a mirror image of the 4 on his uniform and they flipped the film around when they developed it to make him appear left-handed.

  94. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    “Which combination of players would you rather have, Blake?

    Gardner + Davidson + O’Flaherty

    or

    Eaton + Prado”

    probably the latter…..but it doesn’t matter what I want.

    ___________

    The former produces more wins.

  95. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    trades are going to be difficult so the bottom line is that if they want to field a contender in 2014 they are going to have to go over 189. Again they only have like 7 or 8 million to spend and that’s if Arod is suspended the entire season…..they are already over the limit if he’s not.

    So if they are being truthful that winning comes before the budget then they need to go ahead and finish the job and fill these holes up.

  96. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Joba making $3 million is harder to swallow than Cano making $240 million.

  97. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    So you basically say “AZ wants to win” and you prefer a combination of players that produces fewer wins.

    It’s Towers, so you never know.

  98. blake December 10th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    if the Dbacks wanted a power hitting OFer then they could have just kept the one they traded last winter…..he can actually play OF

  99. I am Brett Godner December 10th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    They could start using letters and other symbols. Now batting ampersand semicolon.

  100. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    I thought Towers made a bad deal for JUp because the owner was railroading him out of town… but Towers doesn’t seem all that good at his job.

    Those are GMs you need to keep on speed dial.

  101. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    “So you basically say “AZ wants to win” and you prefer a combination of players that produces fewer wins.”

    I’m saying the main pieces of that are Gardner and Prado…..and Gardner is in his walk year and my guess is they’d rather have Prado.

  102. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Ken Rosenthal ?@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
    Source: Joba Chamberlain has offer on table – one year, $3M. Looking for right fit. Money not driving facto

    man he should take that and wobble (i’m not sure he can run).

  103. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    “Count me among the folks who don’t believe in the .220 power hitter Rob Deer type of offense. That’s not the Stick way. The way of the late 90?s Yanks. Again, as I said, makes me question whether Cash is the right person to build a top offensive team.”

    First, there’s more to hitting than batting average. All else equal you want a guy who hits for average. Definitely. You want someone who does everything. Very few guys do everything, though. A .220 hitter who draws walks and hits for power (let alone runs and/or fields) can be a solid offensive contributor. A .280 or even .300 hitter who doesn’t draw walks or hit for power could easily be significantly worse overall offensively than that .220 hitter (Chris Carter his .220 with a 113 wRC+ this season, for example).

    Also, not every guy on the 1990s teams hit for average. They had some really good BA guys, but also a couple of guys who didn’t hit for average. The 1998 Yankee team that won 114 games had 2 .240 hitter who played pretty regularly. Strwaberry hit really well, actually, playing a bit more than half a season. Chad Curtis didn’t hit well overall but played almost a full season. In 1999 Posada and Brosius were in the .240s and two prominent bench guys, Girardi and Spencer, combined for about half a season in the .230s.

  104. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Ken Rosenthal ?@Ken_Rosenthal 53s
    Just seeing this now: @Buster_ESPN reporting Chamberlain offer is from #DBacks.

    more awesomeness from Arizona

  105. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Blake, you have tunnel vision on roster moves sometimes. A trade has to be viewed in full and you have to look at what AZ can then do with a leadoff hitter, with Davidson not blocked, with 7 million in cash to spend and with probably another piece by trading Eaton.

    Prado should be on the block because it would help them deal from a surplus and produce more wins if they do it right.

  106. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 10th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    1. they’re being truthful. Either that or they are great at making it appear that way! (actually I believe it’s the former).

    2. Sad to see Joba leave, if he does leave. In my heart of hearts I will always believe that the way he was yo yo’d definitely hurt him and undercut what could have been a brilliant career.

    3. Boring but information update on yours truly: bulging disc somewhere between L3 and L5 and possible narrowing (whatever all of that means). That’s what the report said, according to my doctor. Next stop: neurologist. Back on prednisone in the meantime.

    GO YANKEES!

  107. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Bret,
    you convince Towers man….I’d love to have Prado

  108. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    They could just go back to the day when players didn’t have a number at all on their backs. Then when you retire that jersey everyone can guess who you mean!!!

  109. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Well they love Prado but how do they feel about Davidson? How long do they want to keep him blocked? Prado has 3 years on his deal.

  110. I am Brett Godner December 10th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Just because Prado should be on the block doesn’t mean the Yankees have the chips to get him. Most of trades thrown out here seem awfully forced.

  111. Bret The Hitman December 10th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    The chips to get Prado? He’s being overrated.

  112. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    From the projected numbers I have seen, Reynolds +Tanaka – ARod = under $189

  113. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    The Dbacks traded Eaton to the White Sox just now for Trumbo.

  114. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    “The chips to get Prado? He’s being overrated.”

    why do you want him so bad then ;)

  115. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    I agree on the “forced trades”. Lotta “reifer madness”

  116. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    “trades are going to be difficult so the bottom line is that if they want to field a contender in 2014 they are going to have to go over 189. Again they only have like 7 or 8 million to spend and that’s if Arod is suspended the entire season…..they are already over the limit if he’s not.”

    Yes, trades are difficult. They still happen all the time.

    They could theoretically trade Gardner for someone like Sandoval and stay under. (Not saying they should, could, or will.) They could try to sign Hudson, if his health checks out, maybe with an eye towards mid-season.

    “Davidson is their top prospect and Prado is worth more in a trade than he is in the OF. Gardner is a clear upgrade to their OF and gives them a leadoff hitter.”

    Not sure if any of that is true.

    Archie Bradley is their top prospect. Davidson is generally listed somewhere around #3-5. He is not a slam dunk to contribute.

    Gardner is signed for one season and they already have some similar players in Pollock and Parra.

  117. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    “From the projected numbers I have seen, Reynolds +Tanaka – ARod = under $189″

    they are at around 182 right now without Arod when you include everything that counts towards the luxury tax…..Tanaka won’t fit with or without Arod.

  118. I am Brett Godner December 10th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    I agree Prado is pretty seriously overrated but that just speaks to the absence of tradable chips the Yanks have. I’m as big a fan of Gardner as there is but he is a one year rental of a useful player in a market starved for pitchers and infielders on top of that any value in the minors is far too unreliable at this point. It’s going to be FAs and feasting on scraps. Personally I would love to be beating the drum for Howie Kendrick over Prado but I can’t see anything the yanks could offer to pry him loose.

  119. chicken little December 10th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Its an epic fail if Cashman spent all this money on hitting and left no money for pitching.

  120. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Those are Not the number I have seen. I have seen a projected $180ish, but that Included A-Rod.

  121. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    “They could theoretically trade Gardner for someone like Sandoval and stay under. (Not saying they should, could, or will.) They could try to sign Hudson, if his health checks out, maybe with an eye towards mid-season.”

    Panda has a salary of just over 8 million for 2014. If you swapped him for Gardner then that’s around 5 million added to the Yanks payroll…..if they are at 182 now then that puts them right at the limit and they still have not 4th starter and no bullpen help and no help at 2B either.

    It’s possible….just not realistic

  122. I am Brett Godner December 10th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Panda baaaad.

  123. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    “Count me among the folks who don’t believe in the .220 power hitter Rob Deer type of offense. That’s not the Stick way. The way of the late 90?s Yanks. Again, as I said, makes me question whether Cash is the right person to build a top offensive team.”

    ______

    First, there’s more to hitting than batting average. All else equal you want a guy who hits for average. Definitely. You want someone who does everything. Very few guys do everything, though. A .220 hitter who draws walks and hits for power (let alone runs and/or fields) can be a solid offensive contributor. A .280 or even .300 hitter who doesn’t draw walks or hit for power could easily be significantly worse overall offensively than that .220 hitter (Chris Carter his .220 with a 113 wRC+ this season, for example).

    Also, not every guy on the 1990s teams hit for average. They had some really good BA guys, but also a couple of guys who didn’t hit for average. The 1998 Yankee team that won 114 games had 2 .240 hitter who played pretty regularly. Strwaberry hit really well, actually, playing a bit more than half a season. Chad Curtis didn’t hit well overall but played almost a full season. In 1999 Posada and Brosius were in the .240s and two prominent bench guys, Girardi and Spencer, combined for about half a season in the .230s.

    _________

    Ted before decide to give me a Bill James 101 primer on offense (BTW, I’m an owner of all the original Abstracts of the 1980s), check out Johnson’s OBP the last three years. It’s .304, .313 and .305. Of all the starters for the 1998 and 1999 Yanks, only one starter, Scott Brosius in 1999 had OBP below .341. That’s the Stick way.

  124. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    “Prado should be on the block because it would help them deal from a surplus and produce more wins if they do it right.”

    I would call this the definition of tunnel vision. You have decided how you feel about something and now anyone who doesn’t agree is an idiot. Your points aren’t wrong by any means and there’s definitely a case for trading him, but you refuse to consider the reasons not to trade him. To the point where you are misrepresenting facts in several comments you’ve made.

    And I’m pretty sure they just traded Eaton.

  125. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    “You only hear what they want you to hear.”

    Bobcat

    ;)

  126. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Panda lost a lot of weight and it’s his walk season and his age 27 (peak) season so he might be very good.

  127. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    I think everyone here realizes there is more to offense than batting average.

  128. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    I think the point is they could live with Johnson at 2b.

  129. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    The job needs to be finished.

    And it will be.

    SP, LOOGY, an infielder.

    Minimum.

  130. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    “Ted before decide to give me a Bill James 101 primer on offense (BTW, I’m an owner of all the original Abstracts of the 1980s), check out Johnson’s OBP the last three years. It’s .304, .313 and .305. Of all the starters for the 1998 and 1999 Yanks, only one starter, Scott Brosius in 1999 had OBP below .341. That’s the Stick way.”

    I was just generally responding to your comment about not getting .220 hitters.

    KJ has publicly been called a UTL for the Yankees. They’re one or two starters away from making that a reality, but Sojo was the Yankees UTL in the 1990s. His OBP didn’t break .275 in 1998 or 99.

    The 1990s were also a very different offensive era. In 1999 19 teams scored over 800 Rs. In 2013, 1 did.

  131. sammiejohnson December 10th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    “First, there’s more to hitting than batting average.”

    Thanks for setting us straight on that, Ted.

  132. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    if you swap Gardner for Panda that puts you at about 187. If you can move Ichiro then that takes you back down to 181ish…..if they could find a decent starter for 3 or 4 million and then a reliever for 2 or 3 then maybe it’d all fit…….but that’s totally reliant on Arod being suspended all season.

    What if they nickel and dime to get under 189 and then they rule Arod just gets 100 games…..then the whole thing is blow up anyway…..you’ve lost all your draft picks…..and you’re still only maybe a contender.

  133. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Blake-

    IMO the odds of A-Rod getting suspended for the whole season are low.

  134. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    “IMO the odds of A-Rod getting suspended for the whole season are low.”

    then 189 is over with anyway

  135. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    “Panda has a salary of just over 8 million for 2014. If you swapped him for Gardner then that’s around 5 million added to the Yanks payroll…..if they are at 182 now then that puts them right at the limit and they still have not 4th starter and no bullpen help and no help at 2B either.”

    Again… why do you always misrepresent everything? Gardner is projected for $4M, not $3M.

    Yankees rotation, again, is already projected to be the 4th best in baseball AS IS. Phelps is a perfectly fine #4 SP. He’s not ideal, but he’s fine. Pineda might be a perfectly fine #2 SP if he’s fully healthy. Teams that don’t have a sure thing at every position can still contend and even win the WS. Many projected the Red Sox to finish dead last in the AL East last season. Almost no one expected guys like Lackey and Lester to come back from the dead. Doubront had a ridiculously high career ERA. Things aren’t usually going to go that well, but the point is that things do work out better than expected sometimes. Not always worse.

    It’s perfectly realistic to go into a season without a sure thing at every position.

  136. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Blake-

    I believe it is.

  137. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    i dont get that people think arod is going to win arbitration when he walked out on the second day of his side’s argument.

  138. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    KJ has publicly been called a UTL for the Yankees. They’re one or two starters away from making that a reality, but Sojo was the Yankees UTL in the 1990s. His OBP didn’t break .275 in 1998 or 99.

    ———

    No Ted, that’s where your wrong. If you look at my original post, it was response to this:

    “Kelly Johnson is a legitimate option at either second or third, especially in a platoon situation. The Yankees could pair him with a right-handed hitter at either position. “He’s more of a bat than a defender,” Cashman said. “… ”

    I’ve been saying for over a week now, Johnson is a perfectly fine utility player. In fact, much better than most. He can play a few positions and he’s not an offensive black hole. It’s when Cashman called him a legitimate option, i.e, starter, and worse yet, a platoon starter, that I took exception. If he had a platoon split, which he doesn’t,or if he had even .340 OBP to go with his .220 average, then maybe. This seems to harken back to the “big hairy monster” approach which, if equated to Stick, is a huge case of revisionism.

  139. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    I have to run, but they can also trade prospects for cost controlled young players to fill spots. They might not be great additions, but again… good teams sometimes have a few holes or at least weak spots going into the season.

  140. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Y’s-

    Is getting suspended 100 games winning ?

  141. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    “Again… why do you always misrepresent everything? Gardner is projected for $4M, not $3M”

    that really doesn’t matter with regards to my point…..I’ve heard 3 or 4 million for him…..either way it’s very close to 189 if they made that swap.

  142. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    “Yankees rotation, again, is already projected to be the 4th best in baseball AS IS. Phelps is a perfectly fine #4 SP.”

    lol by who?

  143. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    “The Rockies have acquired left-hander Brett Anderson from the A’s in exchange for left-hander Drew Pomeranz and right-hander Chris Jensen, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter).”

  144. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    I asked about Dustin Ackley first

  145. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    “I have to run, but they can also trade prospects for cost controlled young players to fill spots.”

    like who…..so you think they have the 4th best rotation in baseball as is…..and that they can trade their prospects for cost controlled position players? ok……I try to live in the real world.

  146. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    I guess Anderson gone…..

  147. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    wonder how good of a GM Cashman would be with a team that has a small payroll …my guess not to good

  148. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Why would NPB ownership agree to this?

    Some of them don’t recognize the Posting System and refuse to use it. They don’t care if there’s a limit or not. I can only speculate as to why the others would go along with this… maybe they see it as something that won’t come into play very often, or maybe they see it as a disincentive to post their own players. Or maybe they just don’t want to face Tanaka next year.

    No one seems to like the Posting System. Why does it exist?

    It comes down to NPB teams needing to have a way to get something in return for players than are inevitably going to lose to MLB via free agency. Conceptually there is nothing wrong with this; in fact MLB clubs transfer players to Japanese teams for fees that range up to the low seven figures. Case in point, Softbank paid the Cubs $950k last year for Bryan LaHair’s contract.

    What does it matter anyway?

    From a practical standpoint, I don’t know, actually. Seibu invested the money they got from Matsuzaka into improvements to their home stadium, the Seibu Dome. Nippon Ham doesn’t seem to have re-invested their Darvish money back into their baseball operation in an obvious way. Perhaps there are more subtle ways that I haven’t picked up on.

    In the bigger picture, a vibrant Japanese baseball culture and a financially healthy NPB is a very good thing for MLB and baseball in general, and limiting how much a team can benefit from developing a superstar player can’t possibly help.

    http://www.npbtracker.com/2013.....n/#content

    I like NPB tracker and he makes some good points here

  149. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    “What if they nickel and dime to get under 189 and then they rule Arod just gets 100 games…..then the whole thing is blow up anyway…..you’ve lost all your draft picks…..and you’re still only maybe a contender.”

    _________

    You see, this is where I think 189 is a bit of a distraction Blake. A kind of three card Monte. If you tell people that 189 is your goal, because it benefits the team in the long run, they won’t realize that you are really intent on cutting your payroll by $30 or $40 million. That’s why if they miss 189 because Arod only gets 100 games, they still win.

    I’ve never fully accepted the awesome benefits of hitting 189. The luxury tax rate is high, but only funds over 189. And the rev share rebates seem to be speculative. But cutting the budget by $30 or $40 million that’s plenty real.

  150. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I don’t see SF moving Sandoval for just Gardner….I would think they’d have to get more in return. That being said I think Sandoval is a good fit, dude can rake.

  151. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
    I don’t see SF moving Sandoval for just Gardner….I would think they’d have to get more in return. That being said I think Sandoval is a good fit, dude can rake.
    —————————————–
    I’m ready..lets do it

  152. mick December 10th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Cano hitting 2nd is all the spin Team JZ has got?

    Weak..

  153. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    I wouldn’t mind Dustin Ackley either….he has a lot more talent than his MLB career would indicate thus far. And wouldn’t it be nice to see the yankees acquire a player on the right side of 30?

  154. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Blake-

    We should have been able to at least match or even exceed that package.

    Pomeranz was the main piece.

    He hasn’t distinguished self at all so far.

    About 25. High draft pick one year by the Indians.

    We have Huff who is little older, also a former high draft pick, and w a better track record.

    The other guy Jensen is in A ball. Undistinguished. Probably a throw in.

    We certainly could have topped that.

    So Huff, or maybe Nuno, + a better 2nd prospect should have netted us Anderson.

    Whatever ?

  155. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    MTU,
    Pomeranz has been traded twice now….I don’t think that’s a great sign for him./

  156. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    “Pomeranz, 25, was the fifth overall selection in the 2010 draft by the Indians but found himself traded to the Rockies in the Ubaldo Jimenez blockbuster a couple seasons ago.[ Despite his upside, Pomeranz has yet to pan out, posting a 5.20 ERA with 7.6 K/9, 4.6 BB/9 and a 45.5 percent ground-ball rate.] He does own a 2.97 career ERA in the minors, including a 3.60 ERA with 9.7 K/9 and 3.6 BB/9 in 132 1/3 innings at the Triple-A level.”

  157. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Erik Boland ?@eboland11 7m
    Girardi on reports Cano was upset about hitting second:”he didn’t tell me he was unhappy but there were things I heard.” Said the two talked

  158. luis December 10th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Good afternoon again,

    bigdan,

    Cashman can’t build a team, offensive or otherwise period. Most of his tenure he has only to either overpay for obvious FA’s and compliment an already strong foundation… I think Swisher is the only truly great trade on his watch.

    If they stop spending ( I agree there are very few trade chips if any )…We are middle of the pack and we have sacrifice every 1st round pick in the process for a potential rebuild…Worst of all worlds. This could be a direct indictment on ownership and FO competency

  159. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover

  160. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    bigdan,
    yea I don’t know what they are doing to be honest…..if they wanted to get under 189 then they shouldn’t have give Ellsbury 153 million dollars…..they could have spread that money around even if they lost Cano.

  161. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    The rotation is the 4th best in baseball? Did MLB contract?

  162. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    “Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover”

    that would be fine with me.

  163. blake December 10th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    “The rotation is the 4th best in baseball? Did MLB contract?”

    I want to see the publication that projects this……I can think of a bunch of rotations better than the Yanks is currently…..

  164. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    MLB should be doing everything it can to get the best Japanese players to come play here. Instead, they discourage it.

  165. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Ben Badler BenBadler 4m
    Beginning July 2, MLB is essentially going to wipe out $300,000 from every team’s international bonus pool http://bit.ly/J32Gby

  166. kd December 10th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    i think they gave ellsbury that money thinking that cano would stay

    once seattle gave him all of that cash, the plan changed. i think they go into the season trying to have room for the trade deadline

    also, it seems to me they are assuming arod’s salary won’t count in 2014

  167. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    I haven’t studied this super close, but it looks like the Rockies got Anderson pretty cheap. I guess he has a lot of physical questions, but money aside, the Yanks certainly could have matched what the A’s received.

  168. luis December 10th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Blake,

    Last night I made a post about the chances to make it to the PS…I am little lazy to write it all over again…But they certainly can compete for a WC spot… The problem for me is: Is it worth it to sacrifice the necessary rebuilding for an iffy WC contender?

    Patrick,

    After taking in to account Mo’s loss ( I forgot about him :oops: ), this is an 82 – 83 wins teams at best

  169. luis December 10th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Hello Mac,

    Are you mad at me?

  170. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    how is mlb discouraging japanese players. the new system gives the player more money and more choices of teams they can play for.

  171. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    The more I think about it the more I want Ackley….versatile player, lefty stick, very nice stroke, could really benefit from a change of scenery. To me Ackley is the type of guy who could blossom by getting away from the cavernous park and high expectations in Seattle where he was a high pick. Coming to NYY and just being “one of the guys” would probably be a huge benefit to him. I feel the same way about Ike Davis, who would greatly benefit by being dealt to a team like Baltimore.

  172. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    how is mlb discouraging japanese players. the new system gives the player more money and more choices of teams they can play for.

    Who said that? Its not up to the player for posting though, its up to the team. The news discourage the teams.

  173. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    kd December 10th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
    i think they gave ellsbury that money thinking that cano would stay

    ======================

    Well, they definitely did a very poor job there… You offer a much lesser player 21.8 mil and then you expect Cano not to think he is worth more?… They should have upped the offer to Cano as a result of this contract before Ellsbury’s news became known

  174. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Luis,

    Of course not. Even on the occasions we disagree, I’m glad to hear your opinions. And I do think most of the management group have proven themselves inept. How can a team with money to spend have such a farm system?

  175. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    “Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover”

    Let’s just get Stanton in RF, Kershaw, and Verlander to fill the 4th and 5th slots too.
    Same likelihood as the above happening

  176. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    “bigdan,
    yea I don’t know what they are doing to be honest…..if they wanted to get under 189 then they shouldn’t have give Ellsbury 153 million dollars…..they could have spread that money around even if they lost Cano.”

    ———

    Actually I think that might make some sense Blake. Part of the 2014 plan, besides cutting payroll, may have been to increase the team’s star power. Those goals aren’t mutually exclusive. Sure Ells was an overpay, but it created buzz and puts a star in the lineup to cover up the Cano loss.

    All of these thoughts could be part of a very cynical plan to improve profitability at the expense of putting the best team on the field now and in the future. I hope this theory is wrong.

  177. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    obviously $20M is less than a couple of teams got for their posted players, but still $20M is alot of money, teams arent likely to pass on that when they know the player wants to go and will go as soon as possible.

    i dont think the max posting will stop many if any teams from posting their players.

  178. kd December 10th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    couldn’t agree more luis. also should have let the cano situation settle itself before offering a contract to anyone else.

  179. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    “Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover”

    Let’s just get Stanton in RF, Kershaw, and Verlander to fill the 4th and 5th slots too.
    Same likelihood as the above happening’

    those things aren’t that far fetched at all really…..they may not happen but it’s not impossible like those other things are.

  180. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    brianlopez22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    “Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover”

    Let’s just get Stanton in RF, Kershaw, and Verlander to fill the 4th and 5th slots too.
    Same likelihood as the above happening
    —————————————–
    if you say so

  181. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    tanaka’s team acted like they wouldn’t post him if the new posting system went through. its bs, he’ll be posted as soon as the system is approved.

    the increased earning potential the players will get from negotiating with several teams will make more players want to be posted.

  182. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    If Tanaka is not posted due to the lowered sum of money that seems to indicate it will discourage player movement.

  183. joeman December 10th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    brianlopez22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    “Dustin Ackley 2nd..Panda 3rd..KJ the rover”

    Let’s just get Stanton in RF, Kershaw, and Verlander to fill the 4th and 5th slots too.
    Same likelihood as the above happening
    —————————————–
    it’s just all talk here like everything else..don’t get your shorts in a bunch

  184. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Cashman clearly said on the radio today they decided to give Ellsbury the money after they were convinced Cano wasn’t returning.

  185. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    See you really can’t tell me Johnson is a legitimate option for the starting lineup in one breath, and then in the next say that you place putting a competitive team on the field ahead of financial concerns.

  186. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    Glad to hear it Mac! The feeling is mutual

    About your question…I guess because they are spending it on the wrong side of the business

  187. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    I wouldn’t think Ackley and his sub .700 OPS would be an unimaginable acquisition.

  188. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    “Cashman clearly said on the radio today they decided to give Ellsbury the money after they were convinced Cano wasn’t returning.”

    I’ve always believed that’s the truth. Ells got Cano’s budgeted salary.

  189. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    tanaka will be posted before christmas.

  190. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    “Actually I think that might make some sense Blake. Part of the 2014 plan, besides cutting payroll, may have been to increase the team’s star power. Those goals aren’t mutually exclusive. Sure Ells was an overpay, but it created buzz and puts a star in the lineup to cover up the Cano loss.”

    If they don’t win it won’t

  191. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Luis,

    They could triple the size of the scouting and development guys and it would still probably cost less than a poor fifth starter. Cashman seemed to promise this focus many years ago. Do they spend the needed money and spend it badly? I don’t know.

  192. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:09 pm
    Cashman clearly said on the radio today they decided to give Ellsbury the money after they were convinced Cano wasn’t returning.

    =========================

    Then there isn’t much to argue here…Only that without Cano any attempt to have a WS kind of team dimishes exponentially…Therefore, it was wiser to go the rebuilding route then and kkep all the picks… We lost Cano literally for nothing

  193. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    austinmac says:
    December 10, 2013 at 5:10 pm
    I wouldn’t think Ackley and his sub .700 OPS would be an unimaginable acquisition.

    He’s better than that…

  194. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    I seriously doubt Johnson will be the opening day 2B….unless they acquire a legit ML 3B. Odds are Cashman will acquire a 2B. Does anyone have a scouting report of Aledmys Diaz?

  195. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Blake,

    I do like the idea of an Ackley acquisition. It was the belief it was utopian that I was responding to.

  196. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    austinmac says:
    December 10, 2013 at 5:17 pm
    Blake,

    I do like the idea of an Ackley acquisition. It was the belief it was utopian that I was responding to.

    Hey he might not be better than that but I think he is….I’m biased though

  197. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    tanaka will be posted before christmas.

    I think thats likely, but doesn’t change the fact that the new rules discourage THE TEAMS from posting their players. And as was said, some Japanese teams don’t post players at all already.

  198. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Why all the gloom and doom on the last thread?
    Did Cash say something that ended our off season?
    Are they done dealing?
    I go to a movie, Out of the Furnace, highly recommend it and come back to a gloomfest.

  199. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Cashman says he wanted to an a bat or two. Ask was asked earlier, who could that be? The best bat I have heard somewhat realistically mentioned by the media is Kendrick. He is a tough out. I hope he isn’t thinking of Reynolds as the missing piece.

  200. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Tanaka went from absolutely 100% would post, to more 50-50. Even if he is posted, the rules put a wrinkle in it.

  201. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
    Luis,

    They could triple the size of the scouting and development guys and it would still probably cost less than a poor fifth starter. Cashman seemed to promise this focus many years ago. Do they spend the needed money and spend it badly? I don’t know.

    ======================
    He just doesn’t know how… He inherited an already built team with one of the best cores in history…He only needed to add pieces to it… The problem is that this team needs an overhaul… And the farm it’s an essential part of any team building… We have no core, our farm isn’t ready to produce players on a consistent basis and truly star FA players will be very scarce and probably will be past their prime once the hit the FA market… That’s why I said that rebuilding and meet the cap was the best route, but first they needed to overhaul the FO… The spending route a distant second optionm but given the abilities of our FO the more logical…But it seems they have chosen the middle road yet again…

  202. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    Money obviously does matter. Otherwise, there would be no posting system at all. Teams don’t let the players leave simply because they would like to.

  203. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Mick,

    Cashman basically said that the spending was over…So we won’t improve the team much more…That’s the reason

  204. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Mick,

    Cashman said on the radio they weren’t reaching as high as Infante, Headley and Tanaka. Chad’s reporting seems more positive.

  205. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Then there isn’t much to argue here…Only that without Cano any attempt to have a WS kind of team dimishes exponentially…Therefore, it was wiser to go the rebuilding route then and kkep all the picks… We lost Cano literally for nothing
    ////

    Hermano, you name my very gripe.

    I said, in jest, if I could create a parallel world where Cano walks, so all the people who cavalierly think his absence is some kind of shrug, could experience life as a Yankee fan with that gaping hole at 2B and in the lineup, I’d do it just to sit back and watch.

    Well, now I can tell my non-baseball sympathetic but biocentrist friends that I have somersaulted into that parallel world.

    I want to halt the experiment; I don’t care how people take his departure. Gimme back a world in which Cano is about to re-sign with the Yankees.

  206. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    “Actually I think that might make some sense Blake. Part of the 2014 plan, besides cutting payroll, may have been to increase the team’s star power. Those goals aren’t mutually exclusive. Sure Ells was an overpay, but it created buzz and puts a star in the lineup to cover up the Cano loss.”

    “If they don’t win it won’t”

    The assumption built into your statement is that every dollar you spend improves your chances of winning a championship. But what if Hal doesn’t believe that. What if he accepts what Billy Beane has been saying for awhile that the playoffs are a crapshoot. Now I don’t totally believe that but suppose Hal does and the goal is to get to the dance. Say win 89-92 games. Moreover, under this theory, there is no marginal benefit to spending above a certain threshold, say 190ish. The plan would be to put an interesting, albeit flawed team on the field with a good shot at making the playoffs without spending over $190MM.

    I’m not saying I agree with this, but this could be an accountant’s logic. It certainly wasn’t George’s.

  207. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Please no more trades with the Mariners. They would take whatever good is left from the farm system.

  208. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    @CaseyStern: Girardi and Cashman both told us there was a point it seemed rather clear Cano wasn’t coming back. Well before day he left @MLBNetworkRadio

  209. chicken little December 10th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Cashman also once said the yankees were done spending and then they went out and signed Msrk texeira. lets see what happens. if its dumpster diving than this was very poor planning (and they probably should not have signed either ellsbury or beltran and instead spread the money around). if it is not dumpster diving than all cashman was doing was blowing smoke.

  210. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Bigdan,
    I believe the playoffs are somewhat of a crapshoot as well…..but hey aren’t a playoff team right now for me

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    bigdan,

    Yes on your points re the anti-Stick schtick of back-leg, low-contact, power bats (who beat up bad pitching).

    Been complaining about it since the first of the hit tool types began to exit the building, beginning in 2010.

    Listening to Cashman congratulate himself for learning the lessons well at Stick’s knee is so much dissonance.

  212. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Luis,

    Our only disagreement is spending to put a competitive team on the field should not prevent a great development system. I agree the people who do it don’t do it well. Today on MLB radio they were discussing Don Cooper of the White Sox ,and how he can take Quintana, let go by the Yankees, and make him a sought after pitcher.

    We need some success stories.i said last year it was a critical year for the minor league system. It went badly, and principally because players didn’t perform.

  213. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    Mac/Luis,

    Your interpretations are different. The spending being over is different from not meeting Infante price or what they want for Headley in a trade. Tanaka , of course is a crap shoot but I don’t think they will get into a bidding war.

    Sounds like the likely move would still be Infante if and when he drops his demands.

    I do think most of the spending is over tho and if they have to go for a 1-2 year deal on a Colon or give Brian Roberts a MiL/ST invite the will. Balfour would also be nice but he might go to the O’s.

  214. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    I wish I could please you and give you that alternate universe… This team is all about PR and draw fans to YS3, not winning… At least not for real…You know I am not a big fan George, but I miss him right now…He would have fired Cashman on the spot

  215. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    JAP,

    The problem is far more than Cano not resigning. If they had signed him, they would have then used it as an explanation for not spending elsewhere, and the result would still be a bad team. If you prefer a crappy team with Cano and the seven dwarves to a crappy one without Cano, I understand that. At least we had one star to watch.

    If they had a plan to build a good team, fine. But, if it lose Cano and we get another year of ten retreads, no thanks.

  216. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    primo,

    It is all very discouraging.

    One of my biocentrist friends wants me to read out his latest; just wanted to say “hell yes” to your post.

    See ya later, my friend.

  217. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Mick,

    He didn’t say he wouldn’t spend but made it sound like he was going to be on the cheaper players. His statement that I heard was they weren’t thinking that high. Somewhat cryptic to be sure.

  218. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Mac,

    I do agree that you can do both… We just missed so many opportunities to do just that, that I think now it is too late…There were two clear paths…It seems that they have chosen the in between, if that’s the case ( being the “if” the key word ) we are pretty much screwed and destined for mediocrity.

    Bigdan,

    Beane does what he does because with his resources he can’t have a truly WS kind of team… The Yankees aren’t the A’s…

  219. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    Bigdan,
    I believe the playoffs are somewhat of a crapshoot as well…..but hey aren’t a playoff team right now for me

    _________

    That’s a little bit of a flaw in the plan isn’t it. But if this is right, the plan is in effect nevertheless:

    “Cashman said on the radio they weren’t reaching as high as Infante, Headley and Tanaka. Chad’s reporting seems more positive.”

    Make no mistake, despite McCann, Beltran, Ellsbury et al, this a plan to deeply cut payroll. Sherman was basically right. Forget about 189, that’s a ruse, because they likely will miss it but that doesn’t matter. This is a plan from the get go to cut payroll in the order of 20% or more. The fate of the Yanks next year will rest on a ton of luck and the performance of some old and some untested young pitching.

    Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen. A bumpy ride ahead.

  220. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: yankees intending to keep gardner. ichiro is the one theyd prefer to move … if they can. http://t.co/AMIagxdW2u

  221. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    I try not to go to the place of PR dictates all, but I fear it does. Perhaps, Cano didn’t seem to be a big enough draw on a mediocre team. Maybe they thought Ellsbury might. We have already seen such thinking with Ichiro. Levine answering questions about players is not a good sign.

  222. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Dan-

    It surprises me how lightly people passed over the Anderson trade.

    And it surprises me further that we didn’t seem to bother matching that rather flimsy package to obtain him which we certainly could have done.

    He certainly merits that kind of attention IMO.

    If for not other reason that he is left-handed and still has potential if he stays healthy.

    Last year he broke a foot. That’s a fluke injury. before that he had TJS. He’s still young.

    Big deal on that. The success rate is very high and the arm is usually stronger than before..

    Definitely should have taken a flyer on him for that. The A’s even kicked in 2 million bucks.

    :(

  223. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Wow, Heyman has deduced the Yankees believe Ichiro has less value to the team. It’s great to get the insider’s scoop.

  224. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    New one ——–>

  225. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    JAP,

    The problem is far more than Cano not resigning. If they had signed him, they would have then used it as an explanation for not spending elsewhere, and the result would still be a bad team. If you prefer a crappy team with Cano and the seven dwarves to a crappy one without Cano, I understand that. At least we had one star to watch.
    ///

    mac,

    I’m multi-tasking, but my thinking is a bit along these lines. Adding McCann was a bold and necessary move – with Cano still on the club.

    I mean it: some people had to lose him to really understand what has been lost. Unfortunately, the Yankees FO, which should know better is among that group, IMO.

    Same old, same old, in different clothes.

    I’ll be in later.

    Hope you are all enjoying the snowfall and the impending holidays.

    Cheers.

  226. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Primo,

    Take care….Give my thanks to your friends…I am honored…See ya in NY ;)

  227. pete2 December 10th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    If Pineda is really healthy I would think he would be in the rotation at some point. Banuelo as well, or at least in the pen.

    I still would love Drews bat, and glove. They are going to need another SS soon anyways. If Girardi makes decisions base on whats best for the team (like batting Cano 2B), Jeter won’t be at SS too much in 2014 anyways. Even in 2012 he was a defensive liability per UZR.

    I suspect Cashman waits to hear about Arods suspension length before making a move, but that would be a mistake IMO. No way he gets much less than 100 games, and may get a full 162.

  228. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    MTU,

    I am bracing myself for Cashman saying in a couple days that we couldn’t match up on anything. My Hal apology is still on hold. I am sensing money dictates every thought at this point.

    I hope they didn’t sign a couple of new toys and think fans are going to be fooled into thinking it is a good team.

  229. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    So I’m on my way back from the movie and hear Kay shrieking faux anger at Grandy’s statement.
    It was so bad he and LaGreca took the attitude into the commersh so as not to lose the vibe.
    Only in NY…

  230. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Mac-
    Just ignore Cash.
    They are not done.

  231. pete2 December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    As currently constructed this team wins no more than 85 games, which is what they won last year, which was 6 games over their pythag thanks to a great bullpen. No guarantee even 90 W gets you to the dance. So Cashman needs to spend another 25 million for 5 WAR, or make a trade to get it.

    Maybe losing with a few new faces puts a few more fans in the park, but probably not too many.

  232. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Mick,

    i responded in the next thread :arrow:

  233. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

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    lol by who?”

    By fangraphs. I already linked you the article. You keep going on and on with all your “opinions” yet you ground none of them in fact.

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