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Girardi acknowledges Cano was upset about batting second (with video)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

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Joe Girardi says he’s going to miss Robinson Cano. And that Cano’s bat will be hard to replace. And that it’s hard to blame Cano for taking a 10-year deal worth $240 million. These were things everyone was expecting to hear from the Yankees manager. It might have come as a mild surprise that Girardi basically confirmed and went on to discuss a New York Post report that Cano was unhappy about being asked to bat second last season.

“He didn’t tell me he was unhappy,” Girardi said. “But there were things that I heard, and I sat down and talked to him. And he was like, OK, whatever you need.”

With the Yankees lineup depleted by well-publicized injuries, Cano hit second fairly regularly in the first two and a half months of the season. At the time, Vernon Wells was easily the Yankees best right-handed hitter, and batting Cano second — with Wells third — was a way of maximizing Cano’s at-bats while using Wells to break up a string of lefties (Gardner, Cano, Hafner, Overbay, and even Granderson for a while).

“There were discussions with a number of my hitters about, I’m going to have to ask you to do some things that you’re not used to doing,” Girardi said. “That’s the bottom line. I talked to Robbie, and I told Robbie, ‘When I can get you back to third, I’ll get you back to third. But right now, I think you hitting second gives us the best chance to win.’ It wasn’t ideal, but it wasn’t ideal all the injuries we had last year, and we had to make some adjustments. And players, they want to hit in those certain spots. I understand that.”

Girardi essentially downplayed Cano’s frustrations, but he did acknowledge that they were real and addressed at some point.

“I felt (batting Cano second) gave us the best chance to win,” Girardi said. “And that’s the reason I did it.”

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212 Responses to “Girardi acknowledges Cano was upset about batting second (with video)”

  1. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Weak.

  2. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Lol…

  3. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    Yeah well I was upset Cano never took leadership of the team last year while everyone else was hurt. I will miss his bat and glove, a superstar no doubt, but he is NOT a leader and doesn’t deserve leader money no matter how good he is.

  4. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS 53s

    yankees intending to keep gardner. ichiro is the one theyd prefer to move … if they can. http://cbsprt.co/JcfHAo

  5. raymagnetic December 10th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Did Jeter bish and moan about flip flopping with Damon that years to stop the double plays?

    He’s lucky Girardi didn’t go all Joe Torre on him and bat him 7th.

  6. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    He’s gone, time to move on.

    Bring me 1 of: Dustin Ackley, Omar Infante or Howie Kendrick.

    Ackley would be best being younger…

  7. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Do not want Infante….brings little besides a good AVG (some years) and will cost too much. Ackley has some real upside and maybe he can be had for a moderate haul. Put Ackley in the bottom of the lineup and let him play 2B everyday and I think we’ll all be awfully surprised with the outcome. I think .280/.350/.450 isn’t out of the question. I like Kendrick, but I feel like he’ll cost a lot and I don’t see why LAA would move him.

  8. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    I was finally starting to admit that 189 might be off when they signed Beltran…..now I’m not so sure anymore

  9. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    If could see them getting Ackley then platooning Nunez and Johnson at 3B and spending whatever they have left at the scrap heap for pitching

  10. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Teddy I am sold on Ackley.
    A first rounder that got ruined by that horrible hitter park in Seattle.
    He is young and we could certainly use some of that.
    Also we seem to trade with Seattle on a fairly regular basis.

  11. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Also, saw the Phillies are shopping Hamels and Lee again.
    Have to at least look, especially if we lose out on Tanaka.

  12. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Re-post:

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    Bigdan,
    I believe the playoffs are somewhat of a crapshoot as well…..but hey aren’t a playoff team right now for me

    _________

    That’s a little bit of a flaw in the plan isn’t it. But if this is right, the plan is in effect nevertheless:

    “Cashman said on the radio they weren’t reaching as high as Infante, Headley and Tanaka. Chad’s reporting seems more positive.”

    Make no mistake, despite McCann, Beltran, Ellsbury et al, this a plan to deeply cut payroll. Sherman was basically right. Forget about 189, that’s a ruse, because they likely will miss it but that doesn’t matter. This was a plan from the get go to cut payroll in the order of 20% or more. The fate of the Yanks next year will rest on a ton of luck and the performance of some old and some untested young pitching.

    Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen. A bumpy ride ahead.

  13. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    If they could move Ichiro it’d give them a little more to spend at the junkyard

  14. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Ackley hit .304 in the 2nd half last year….used to be compared to Chase Utley…..he absolutely raked in college

  15. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    If could see them getting Ackley then platooning Nunez and Johnson at 3B and spending whatever they have left at the scrap heap for pitching

    ————

    Depending on how things play out, I might be with bigdan… They’d save $35-40 by just cutting payroll.

  16. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    So the Ellsbury deal was obviously a we know that Cano is leaving and we have to sign someone quickly so the fans don’t panic move. They obviously wanted to get a player into the fold quickly for that reason and knowing that the prices were going to rise. Even though they overpaid him by a ton.

  17. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    ac1

    Ackley is yet another example of Seattle failing to develop any noteworthy hitting talent since moving to Safeco. Ackley had a pretty solid rookie year, was an elite college player at an elite program, and hit well in the minors. Batting in a good lineup in a very generous park for LH will benefit him exponentially. Ackley has tools and a very smooth swing, a change of scenery is what he needs.

  18. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Ackley is cheap so of they could get him and deal Ichiro then they’d have somewhere around 13 million left to spend on other stuff….

  19. hardwired7 December 10th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Joe could have batted Cano cleanup every single game of the year, and there’s still zero chance he was going to turn down the Mariners’ $240M.

    When a team offers you that ridiculous contract, you sign it. End of story.

    Good luck, Robbie. It was awesome watching you make this difficult game look ridiculously easy.

  20. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    “Depending on how things play out, I might be with bigdan… They’d save $35-40 by just cutting payroll.”

    This year….next year Arods money comes back af they’ll lose that money again if they miss the playoffs

  21. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    you can’t rebuild in nyc. nobody wants to pay ridiculous prices to watch a rebuilding team. the mets are showing that now.

  22. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    michael kay is going crazy over granderson’s ‘real ny’ers’ line…

  23. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    Mick,

    My point is/was that as the team is currently constructed isn’t good enough to win it all… They still need a few players to make it strong enough…If they are not going to go there, then the whole strategy is futile…Scrap heap picks won’t make enough of a difference

  24. coney1 December 10th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    If Infante, Headley, and Tanaka is shooting high then this team is in trouble. Cashman acknowledged he needs a 2b, 3b, SP, and a couple of relievers. I think they will get those pieces but it will probably be folks like Reynolds, Brian Roberts, Paul Maholm, Logan, and maybe a rehab guy like Joel Hanrahan.

  25. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    They have to get Tanaka or another good pitcher and a late inning reliever. It would be absolutely ridiculous to give Ellsbury the money they did and not have any left for a starting pitcher. I think they are waiting to see what is going to happen with Tanaka since they aren’t in love with anyone else on the market.

  26. luis December 10th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    =======================

    Spot on as usual

  27. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Luis,
    I agree.
    They are not finished, why would anybody think they are?

  28. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    I get tired of the playoffs are a crapshoot idea. I recall the Yankees regularly winning when they had the best team. No one said they were winning crapshoots. it is an excuse not to build the best team. The best team doesn’t always win, but they always have the best chance.

  29. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Levine answering questions about players is not a good sign.

    —————–

    It never is.

  30. mick December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    So I’m on my way back from the movie and hear Kay shrieking faux anger at Grandy’s statement.
    It was so bad he and LaGreca took the attitude into the commersh so as not to lose the vibe.
    Only in NY…

    Mac-
    Just ignore Cash.
    They are not done.

  31. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    blake – I didn’t say it made sense.. I really dunno what they’re doing.

    Michael Kay is a man child.

  32. blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Kay is super mad at Grandy

  33. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    but he is NOT a leader and doesn’t deserve leader money no matter how good he is.

    ————–

    The thing that’s weird though is ppl have said he was a leader in the WBC for the Dominican team. I know it’s just an exhibition but he did seem to be more vocal. Is it not wanting to step on Jeter’s toes why he didn’t lead or something else?

  34. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Totally disagree on “cutting payroll” being the Primary Objective. With attendance down roughly 9%, and viewship on YES down roughly 30%, you got a Huge revenue Loss. The $$$ saved by hitting the $189, is FAR greater than cutting payroll $20-30 Mill, and will offset the lost revenue. Increased profits due to winning a Championship or winning in general, would be considered a windfall.

  35. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    i thought grandy’s line was funny. of course mets fans have said that for years.

    and granderson didnt even agree with the statement, he just said that some people say that.

  36. mick December 10th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Cano went for the money, plain and simple, there was nothing they could do to bring him back.
    Now move forward and forget it…

  37. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Everyone who thinks the Yankees are done spending need to come back to earth a little. Hal and Cash know they can’t afford to miss the playoffs two years in a row. Presently constructed, this team is very much a fringe team and is anything BUT a lock for the playoffs. It’s fair to say a professional hitter and a legitimate 200 inning SP will be on their way before Spring Training. I applaud them for not throwing money at flavor of the hot stove like Choo and Infante.

  38. UpState December 10th, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    What was Granderson’s exact quote ?

  39. hardwired7 December 10th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    The good news for Grandy is that he’ll get to meet the hundreds of “true New Yorkers” who show up at Citi Field next year.

  40. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    nobody can step up as a leader of the yankees until jeter leaves.

    just like damon said when he arrived, “this is jeter’s team”

  41. mick December 10th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Hal is not going to throw money at the Infante types who are advised to rip off the Yankees as they have a need at 2nd.

  42. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    The $$$ saved by hitting the $189, is FAR greater than cutting payroll $20-30 Mill, and will offset the lost revenue.

    Not really though? 70% of any savings in these situations comes from actually cutting the payroll. The revenue sharing rebates are going to be 35 million or less over 3 years. That’s less than 1 seasons worth of lost revenue. The luxury tax savings is ~45 million over 3 years assuming they stay under the threshold for 3 years. Less if they go over in any year. Thats also less than 1 seasons worth of lost revenue.

    Much less if you consider potential lost revenue from going further into the playoffs. Even mucher lesser if attendance continues to drop because the team is bad.

  43. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Kay is goin nuts

  44. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    “So the Ellsbury deal was obviously a we know that Cano is leaving and we have to sign someone quickly so the fans don’t panic move. They obviously wanted to get a player into the fold quickly for that reason and knowing that the prices were going to rise. Even though they overpaid him by a ton.”

    _______

    That’s how I see it. And notice how just in the last few days, the tone has really changed. Before “we’re in on everybody.” Now “well, tanaka and infante may be a little high for us.”

    They are working the room.

  45. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    UpState says:
    December 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    What was Granderson’s exact quote ?

    He said something like “people in Ny have good me that true New Yorkers are met fans “

  46. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    ““A lot of the people I’ve met in New York have always said that true New Yorkers are Mets fans,”

  47. Giuseppe Franco December 10th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Kay is super mad at Grandy

    —-

    A lot of Yankee fans are super mad at Kay because he sucks at calling games.

  48. UpState December 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    “…Mark Trumbo and a pair of players to be named later will head to the Diamondbacks…”

    Who are the 2 ML/MiLB players that AZ are getting back in the Trumbo deal ?

    How will that effect the AZ roster/depth ?

    Once we find out – maybe it’ll be easier to make a deal with the Yankees !?!?

  49. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    The problem with nickel and diming now is that there is a good chance they are already over 189……unless Alex gets the whole season they are pretty much over now

  50. mick December 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Kay will do anything for ratings.
    He can’t compete with Mike F and he knows it .
    It’s all show business.

  51. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Players to be named later tend not to affect rosters or depth.

  52. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    I’m listening to Tower’s tell how Quickly the 3 teamer came off. Well Yeah. The other 2 GM’s couldn’t jump on that deal up fast enough. Every GM in MLB has gotta be shaking their head and trying to figure out just What got into Towers.

  53. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    December 10, 2013 at 6:04 pm
    ““A lot of the people I’ve met in New York have always said that true New Yorkers are Mets fans,”

    Those people were likely mets fans

  54. mick December 10th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Cash next on Hot Stove.
    I will have to hear for myself..

  55. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm
    “Depending on how things play out, I might be with bigdan… They’d save $35-40 by just cutting payroll.”

    “This year….next year Arods money comes back af they’ll lose that money again if they miss the playoffs”

    _______

    Even with Arod next year they still could keep the payroll less than $200MM. Jeter is off the books. So is Drob, Gardner and Ichiro. And remember, part of this theory is spending more than X doesn’t increase your chances of making the playoffs. That’s a key part of this. They spent $230MM last year!! They probably think they missed the playoffs last year because of bad luck.

  56. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:56 pm
    I get tired of the playoffs are a crapshoot idea. I recall the Yankees regularly winning when they had the best team. No one said they were winning crapshoots. it is an excuse not to build the best team. The best team doesn’t always win, but they always have the best chance.

    ——————-

    Torre and Cash started to pump out the crapshoot line after the began to lose in the PS not the 01-03 yrs but the 04-07 ones.

  57. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    I would guess after the Rule 5 draft, the TBNL players will be announced.

  58. mick December 10th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    what was he saying?
    true nyers are losers?

  59. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Can we trade Kay, Marakovits, and Singleton to the Mets for Cohen, Burkhardt, and Hernandez????

  60. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    “Even with Arod next year they still could keep the payroll less than $200MM.”

    I mean 2015.

  61. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    I really think we need to get Ackley……as much buffoonery as goes on in Seattle I think their buffooneryness might cause Ackley to actually turn into Utley in Ny like he was supposed to while Cano declines .
    Just seems like something that would happen to the mariners

  62. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 6:08 pm
    austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 5:56 pm
    I get tired of the playoffs are a crapshoot idea. I recall the Yankees regularly winning when they had the best team. No one said they were winning crapshoots. it is an excuse not to build the best team. The best team doesn’t always win, but they always have the best chance.

    ——————-

    Torre and Cash started to pump out the crapshoot line after the began to lose in the PS not the 01-03 yrs but the 04-07 ones.

    _________

    Didn’t the early Torre Yanks win something like 12 straight World Series games? When I go to Vegas I don’t see too many guys hit 12 straight points at the crap tables. I wish though!!

  63. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    You guys talking about cutting payroll and saving $30-40 Mill? That is chicken feed compared to hitting $189 and resetting the Tax Penalty %.

  64. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Complaining about hitting 2nd does not speak well of Cano’s ego, not that it matters anymore.

  65. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Some think that your best hitter should hit 2nd…..my dad always thought so

  66. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    What are they trading for Ackley? Ichiro? :)

    Not Gardner.

  67. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    You guys talking about cutting payroll and saving $30-40 Mill? That is chicken feed compared to hitting $189 and resetting the Tax Penalty %.

    No it isn’t. This sentence is completely unsupported by Math. You are only taxed on amounts over 189. Assuming a 220 luxury tax budget you’re being taxed 15 million. Which is half or more less than the 30-40 million you are saving by reducing your non-penalty costs.

  68. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    “The other Diamondbacks player to be named will likely be Brandon Jacobs, MLB.com’s Jim Callis suggests (via Twitter). John Gambadoro of Sports 620 KTAR in Phoenix was the first to suggest Jacobs with the likely PTBNL. Jacobs, 23, came to the White Sox from the Red Sox in the Matt Thornton deal in July. The outfielder hit .244/.320/.407 for three teams at Class A+ and Double-A in 2013.

    2:38pm: The Diamondbacks will receive right-hander A.J. Schugel from the Angels in the deal, tweets Jack Magruder of FOX Sports Arizona. Schugel dealt with blisters early in the season and saw a foot injury cut his season short in July after he posted a 7.05 ERA with 7.7 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9 in 89 1/3 innings at Triple-A Salt Lake. However, he posted a 2.89 ERA with 7.0 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9 in 140 innings at Double-A when he was healthy in 2012.

    Baseball America ranked Schugel 12th among Angels prospects prior to 2013, noting that a strong fastball/changeup combo should allow him to become a back-of-the-rotation starter despite a questionable breaking pitch. BA also noted that Schugel is an excellent athlete that fields his position well.”

    More info.

  69. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Bill James thinks so, but players don’t, #3 and 4 are the presitge spots.

  70. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    My dad coached high school and legion ball for 30 years and he always hit his best hitter 2nd….he said he wanted them to hit in the first inning and wanted them to get more ABs over the season

  71. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    arod occasionally has batted 2nd, so did mattingly, and of course jeter.

    i guess 2nd wasn’t good enough for robbie cano though….

  72. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    And I’m sure he doesn’t even know who bill James is

  73. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    What are they trading for Ackley? Ichiro? :)

    _______

    I highly doubt with Cano that Seattle will be asking for the moon for a guy that has numbers that are not fantastic. For a first rounder, maybe we do have to give up Gardner? Maybe Murphy? Maybe Phelps?

    I doubt it would have to be 3:1 though.

  74. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Blake-

    No wonder you are such a Stud and your boys future Yankees stars.

    That explains it.

    :)

  75. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    arod occasionally has batted 2nd, so did mattingly, and of course jeter.

    i guess 2nd wasn’t good enough for robbie cano though….

    —————–

    This is just a non-story being blown up in light of losing Cano.

  76. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    - Jerky -
    I thought the tax penalty was on an accelerated scale?

  77. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Does anyone have any clue what Ackley would cost? I honestly have no idea what the M’s would be looking for.

  78. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Would you give Seattle a top prospect for Ackley if they had to take back Ichiro and all of his salary?

  79. Captain Clutch December 10th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Cashman just said that he is still waiting for some gm’s to respond to his trade text messages…
    haha!!

  80. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Shame-

    Like who ?

  81. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    If the Yanks are Not going to deal Gardner, they may as well shut-it-down.

  82. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Remember those folks who say they Yanks lose more by missing the playoffs through loss of revenue than they save by reducing payroll (whether they hit 189 or not) don’t fully understand the premise of this plan.

    The theory goes like this: you spend just enough to put stars on the field and give your team a chance to make the playoff (wildcard). Spending any more doesn’t increase your chances significantly of making the playoffs. And once you get to the playoffs, it’s all random. So reducing payroll to that threshold doesn’t reduce expected revenue.

    So what is that threshold? For the Yanks they probably think it’s about where they are now. 185-190 (without Arod). They want to keep it right there. If they get a good result from the arbitration, they hit 189 and it’s mo money, mo money, mo money.

  83. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    The art of magic involves misdirection.

    ;)

  84. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Austin for Ackely?

  85. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    With me, my best hitter needs Speed in order to bat up in the order. If my best stick is avg speed, he hits 3rd.

  86. AAA December 10th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    No it isn’t. This sentence is completely unsupported by Math. You are only taxed on amounts over 189. Assuming a 220 luxury tax budget you’re being taxed 15 million. Which is half or more less than the 30-40 million you are saving by reducing your non-penalty costs.

    =======================================

    I suppose they also save the difference between $220M and $189M.

    $189M is $189M. $220M is $235.5M, so that’s technically $46M plus some revenue sharing $$$ and the right to be taxed at 17% should they go over again down the road.

  87. luis December 10th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    Got to go guys…Later

  88. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    I thought the tax penalty was on an accelerated scale?

    What does this mean? The penalty’s rise the more years you are over the cap to a maximum of 50%. Its a marginal tax on amounts over a set limit. The old limit was 178. Its raising to 189. Technically the Yankees tax penalties would decrease if payroll remained the same because less money is taxable under the new 189 limit. Its 17.5% if you’re over for 1 year, then 30%, then 40%, then 50%. The Yankees paid 42.5% last year on amounts over 178.

    So lets say their payroll was 230. They would have paid 22.1 million in luxury tax. Now lets pretend they keep payroll at the same level. They would pay 20.5 million this year in luxury tax at the new 50% rate.

  89. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Would you give Seattle a top prospect for Ackley if they had to take back Ichiro and all of his salary?
    ___

    No idea.
    Just looking back at similar players and thinking that for his numbers, one big league starter (Phelps), and a prospect. Or Gardner straight up. I feel like similar to Montero vs. Pineda, had it gone well that would have been a beneficial 1 for 1 for both sides.

  90. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    If they aren’t trading Gardner (or Nova) they have 2 options:

    1. sign free agents

    2. trade minor leaguers

  91. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Complaining about hitting 2nd does not speak well of Cano’s ego, not that it matters anymore.
    ///

    Man, some of you think like cattle, don’t you???

    If every player second guess or frustration within a team were aired, you’d probably need a court stenographer to keep track of it all.

    The guy is gone, so they are building the case against his “character” to justify letting him walk.

    Girardi is probably just answering the question being asked of him, but the seed has been planted by the Yankees so people (not unlike you) jump to the facile conclusion you just did about Cano’s so-called “character” defects.

  92. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    ““Yankees rotation, again, is already projected to be the 4th best in baseball AS IS. Phelps is a perfectly fine #4 SP.”

    lol by who?”

    By fangraphs. I already linked you the article. You keep going on and on with all your “opinions” yet you ground none of them in fact.

  93. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    If they don’t get a #2 type starter, a solid late inning reliever and a good LOOGY then all these offensive moves will be for naught.

  94. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    An old trick in negotiating something is to plead poverty.

    i.e. I don’t have very much to spend. I’m up against it. Etc.

    ;)

  95. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    I think it would be so beautiful if the yanks got Ackley and he took off and then Cano kids fell off…..it would be so Mariners

  96. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Shame

    I’d probably trade anybody but Sanchez to SEA for Ackley if they’d take on Ichiro’s deal. That allows the Yanks wiggle room to add another FA this year (Tanaka?) or take on a more expensive commodity via trade.

  97. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Mason Williams for Ackley?

  98. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Really, I don’t know why I bother.

  99. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    No way the Yankee rotation is fourth best. You have to heavily discount CC’s 2013 to even begin to think that way.

  100. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
    An old trick in negotiating something is to plead poverty.

    i.e. I don’t have very much to spend. I’m up against it. Etc.

    Yeah, I hear this nearly every day.

  101. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    The fallacy there is the spiraling Downward attendance Revenue + same losses\$$$ for YES viewership. Coupled with the escalating Tax, your playing a Continually Escalating losing game. For 1 season you might be OK, after that your bleeding like a stuck hog.

  102. ron December 10th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    At he very least,we should try to trade for an Ackley type that has more potential than what we have,then mabe sign a 3b,or even trade for one.Kind of like the oneill,brosus trades.I just don’t wan’t to see ryan,nunez,the other guy we signed manning 3b,and 2b,at the same time.
    What happens if jeter goes down?3b,ss,and 2b will be very ugly.
    We can’t leave it like this.It would be a mistake.
    Trade for one infielder,sign another,trade ichiro,maybe cervelli,and consider trading gardner,but I’d b hesitant about gardner,unless I can get something good.

  103. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    WYH-

    I think they get by w a mid-rotation type. IMO doesn’t have to be a 2.

    Definitely agree on the LOOGY. I think they’ll get one.

    Not sure about another late inning guy.

  104. RayVT December 10th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    As some of you have already stated the Yankee’s plan is what appears to be in question. A lot of Yankee FA have left (Cano, Grandy, Joba, Hughes, Logan) as well as Mo & Andy. That said the Yankee chances of improving over last season are stll better in my opinion provided they stay healthy. Basically the Yanks gain Brian McCann, Mark Teixeira, Derek Jeter, Jacoby Ellsbury, Carlos Beltran, Rafael Soriano, Francisco Cervelli, Kelly Johnson, Brendan Ryan, Ichro Suzuki, J.R. Murphy & perhaps Mike Pineda/Manny Banuelos that really didn’t play much last year if at all. That is a lot to add.

    SP1………52 CC Sabathia
    SP2………18 Hiroki Kuroda
    SP3………47 Ivan Nova
    SP4………46 Andy Pettite (GONE) – XXXX Missing
    SP5………65 Phil Hughes (GONE) – 41 David Phelps/Mike Pineda/Manny Banuelos/Adam Warren
    CL*………42 Mariano Rivera (GONE) – XXXX Missing
    SU*………30 David Robertson
    LHS………48 Boone Logan (GONE) – XXXX Missing

    C -… Brian McCann (*UPGRADE)
    1B …25 Mark Teixeira (*UPGRADE)
    2B …24 Robinson Cano (GONE) – XXXX Missing -Kelly Johnson
    SS …2 Derek Jeter (*UPGRADE)
    3B …26 Eduardo Nunez
    OF …Jacoby Ellsbury (*UPGRADE)
    OF … 11 Brett Gardner
    OF … Carlos Beltran (*UPGRADE)
    DH … Rafael Soriano (*UPGRADE)

    BENCH – Francisco Cervelli, Kelly Johnson, Brendan Ryan, Ichro Suzuki, J.R. Murphy & Wells

    I believe the Yanks are not too far away from being right in the thick of it in AL East in 2014.

  105. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    I would give up Phelps for Ackley if thats what it takes. I like Phelps, but we have other guys who can start. Warren certainly earned a shot. Pineda may actually be healthy. Maybe Banuelos gets it together this year and we see him later in the summer.

  106. AAA December 10th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Crikey! Jerkface, I misread what you wrote earlier re: luxury tax. My response probably makes no sense in the context you were talking about. My bad.

  107. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    JAP, I never said other players don’t have ego problems as well. They are professional athletes after all.

    Doesn’t change the fact that complaining about hitting 2nd for the Yankees is ego driven and selfish.

    And there is no jumping to conclusion, it is fact as confirmed by Girardi, there is no “plant”.

  108. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Ackley for one of Austin/Mason/Sanchez + Ichiro and his salary?

  109. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    - Jerky -
    Thanks for the primer.

  110. ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    If we do keep Gardner and don’t replace Cano with a solid #3, I wonder if they consider hitting Gardner 1st and Ellsbury 3rd.

  111. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Who said Ackley is even available ?

    Was there even a whisper to that effect or are you guys just engaging the usual armchair GM stuff ?

    Just wondering ?

  112. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    MTU-

    IMO unless CC really bounces back they will need another starter as good as Andy was. And their bullpen depth is shallow, they will miss Mo’s innings.

  113. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    ac1 December 10th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    “I would give up Phelps for Ackley if thats what it takes. I like Phelps, but we have other guys who can start. Warren certainly earned a shot. Pineda may actually be healthy. Maybe Banuelos gets it together this year and we see him later in the summer.”

    _______

    That’s the deal. Does anybody think that’s not fair to the Mariners?

  114. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Baseball AmericaBaseballAmerica 10m
    Int’l Update: MLB Eliminating $50,000 Bonus Exemptions For International Signings http://ow.ly/2C0Mqj

    No more bonus pool exemptions. SMH. We had best take advantage from now until July 2, 2014.

  115. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Not trading Sanchez for Ackley.

  116. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    I never thought the Yankees would diabolical enough to narrowly avoid 189 while still reducing payroll. I thought they’d always go for the extreme in either direction. Now it seems likely they may be doing it like that. Lets them hide behind a ‘we’re competing’ angle while still shaving tens of millions off the budget.

    If true, maybe another year of lost revenues will knock sense into them.

  117. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Shame-

    Maybe for Williams or Flores. Austin is injured. Sanchez is way too good.

    But again, I must ask, where do we get the idea that Ackley is even on the block ?

    :)

  118. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    I don’t think I’d ever move a guy like Sanchez for Ackley.. I really just wanna know what we need to give the M’s to take Ichiro back.

  119. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    The Ackley stuff is More hokum.

  120. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    But again, I must ask, where do we get the idea that Ackley is even on the block ?

    ————

    Cause he’s mostly a 2B and they have a pretty good one..

  121. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    How bout Andy and Mo back mid-season? By then their wives will pay the Yanks to take ‘em. Yanks can provide meal money.

  122. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    Batwise, Beltran was to replace Cano. He was signed only hours after Cano signed with Seattle. He’s not as good as Cano of course, but still pretty good.

  123. Jerkface December 10th, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    Theres no way in hell Ackley should command a top prospect. He is a bust who can’t hit under contract for 4 seasons.

  124. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Why do we want Ackley again?

  125. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    It was reported today by various outlets that the Yankees and Mets both called on Ackley. I think Heyman reported it.

  126. AAA December 10th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Who said Ackley is even available ?

    ==============

    Seems like speculation based on Cano going there. However, Ackley can play OF and they may be intrigued enough by his 2nd half performance to keep him around as they still hurt for offense.

  127. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Didn’t the early Torre Yanks win something like 12 straight World Series games? When I go to Vegas I don’t see too many guys hit 12 straight points at the crap tables. I wish though!!

    ———-

    Yep when they were steam rolling through teams yr after yr you didn’t hear the playoffs are a crapshoot. Dynasties aren’t crapshoots. You might get a lucky bounce here or there but not over an extended period of time.

  128. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Ackley second half 2013: .304 .374 .435 .809

  129. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Yeah. And I’m sure the Yanks called on Kemp. It’s due diligence. That’s All it is

  130. Tabbert December 10th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Boston proved last year how important it is to have quality role players/ bench players that they can rotate in and give them production. A bench of Ichiro, nunez, ryan, cervelli, brings very little offense, absolutely zero power, and minimal defense. You add in the fact that Nunez, and Johnson, could both be starters, the starting 9 gets weaker, and the bench even weaker. I cant even imagine what happens when we suffer injuries, and we have nunez,ryan, and irchiro, getting regular playing time. That could get ugly.

    I would really like us to shore up 2b, and 3b, and then have a bench of: Almonte, Johnson, Cervelli, and Ryan. That gives you Infield versatility, decent defense, decent offense, and some pop. This also protects us much more vs the injury bug than the First bench that i posted.

  131. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    “Ackley second half 2013: .304 .374 .435 .809″

    His first half must have been pretty bad.

  132. Hankflorida December 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Luis, I am not disagreeing with your long term concept of building a team from the ground up, but we are now in the era where the deck is stacked with two Wildcards and playing that game keeps the fans interest to thenvery end. If you remember that on this blog, their were postings of the games remaining for the 2nd Wildcard this year for all the teams competing for it with Cleveland having the easiest schedule; it went down to the wire before the Yankees were eliminated. I think the Yankees will at least be there for the 2nd Wildcard next year, and as fans, what more can you expect when your farm system cannot deliver. I know that you are not satisfied playing for the one game playoff in October, but just look at the football Giants who are out of the Wildcard race and ask how many Giant fans watched the Dallas and Chicago game last night since the air has gone out of the balloon? The reality is that Hal has raised his ante, and if he draws the 2nd Wildcard, we, the fans, are all still in the game.

  133. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Not sure why MLB is pushing Ron Darling? Lotta verbiage, says nothing, and outside of the Mets, has NO contacts. Worthless

  134. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Just because Ackley hasn’t hit yet doesn’t mean he CAN’T hit. Ackley has a pretty sweet swing and has real tools, more than Infante does for sure. I have a strong suspicion that a change of scenery and playing in Yankee stadium in a strong lineup could very well kickstart his career. If you’ve seen him play he’s definitely a talented kid.

  135. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm
    “Ackley second half 2013: .304 .374 .435 .809?

    His first half must have been pretty bad.

    It was.

  136. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    “like who…..so you think they have the 4th best rotation in baseball as is…..and that they can trade their prospects for cost controlled position players? ok……I try to live in the real world.”

    There are scores of cost controlled position players. I didn’t say it’s going to be someone all that good. Off the top of my head, there are guys like Matt Dominguez, Dustin Ackley, Nick Franklin, Davidson, Owings, Daniel Murphy, Beckham, Espinosa… Again, they don’t need a super-star at every position to compete.

    Did I say that I think they have the 4th best rotation? Pretty sure that I said that fangraphs says they have the 4th best rotation in MLB.

  137. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    WYH-

    I see.

    I expect a better year from CC. Almost would have to be just by default.

    Kuroda is your #2 with better managed innings.

    A guy like Bailey, if they could get him, slots in nicely as a # w potential for more.

    He also covers some of the risk associated w Nova backsliding some.

    A rotation of :

    CC
    Kuroda
    Bailey
    Nova
    Pineda/Nuno/Phelps/Warren

    Would be very solid and most, if not all, contingencies would be covered.

    For the Pen I envision something like this :

    D-Rob
    Kelley
    LOOGY (Logan, Huff, etc.)
    Warren and/or Phelps
    Betances
    Claiborne

    If there is money left over get a guy like Balfour, benoit, etc.

    That should cover it pretty well.

    A reliever could also be added at the break if necessary.

    JMHO.

    :)

  138. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    You put Reynolds at 3B and get Tanaka, and the Yanks have a bona fide AL East winning team.

  139. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    Sorry. Bailey as a # 3.

    Duh.

  140. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    anybody who though a rebuilding was going to happen was delusional.

  141. RayVT December 10th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    Oops! Alfonso Soriano & not Rafael! LOL!

  142. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    I believe there’s a pretty high random factor in the playoffs but saying it’s a crapshoot is a cop out. The secret of the Yanks’s success back then was pretty straight forward. Great starting pitching, great bullpen and “the Stick” offense.

    The Stick offense. Good contact hitters who can work a count and aren’t trying to be heroes. As Singleton says, keep the line moving. Line drive power. Can hit to all fields. Very high OBP. OBP more important than slugging. Paulie and Bernie are the best examples.

  143. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Yea I knew that was probably a reach when I posted it, but is Phelps enough to make them take Ichiro lol?

    I just want Ichiro to retire a Mariner (and have them pay him).

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    bbb51,

    You’re not supposed to know that you’re being manipulated ;)

    I’ll say this, Levine may know nothing about baseball, but he’s such a master of spin he should work at City Hall.

    Oh, wait….

  145. Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    MTU,

    Bailey would put up an ERA of 4.00 to 4.25 in the AL pitching in the Stadium, you agree? If CC pitches in the high 4s and Kuroda fades again, does that do it?

    Don’t like that pen you suggest. Risky, IMO.

  146. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    I prefer trying to trade GGBG, ++ for Bailey and backfilling GGBG’s spot to Tanaka.

    Maybe a combo of Almonte/Baker. Or something else if it’s out there.

    Bailey is a known commodity. A real stud.

    Tanaka is a complete unknown in the States.

    He might turn out to be another Kuroda/Darvish type or he might turn into Dice-K or worse.

    Bailey is a sure thing.

    :)

  147. Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    @bigdan

    That’s why I thought Matt Holliday would be the perfect Yankee when he was a free agent a few years ago….good contact hitter, pretty good OBP, not crazy power but always hits for a high average. Would’ve loved to have Holliday in LF….and with the crazy contracts that are being signed now, he would’ve been a bargain.

  148. austinmac December 10th, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    Blake,

    Austin for Ackley.

    I’m sorry you want to get rid of me but I’m probably not enough.

  149. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    Well if there is spin about Cano hitting 2nd, then Girardi is in on it.

    I just can’t see Girardi exaggerating this. He’s a pretty straight shooter.

  150. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    Rockies seem to have Towers as their GM. 1st they dump Fowler, and now admit they boned it with Ubaldo by dealing Pomeranz. No direction, No hope.

  151. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 5:53 pm
    you can’t rebuild in nyc. nobody wants to pay ridiculous prices to watch a rebuilding team. the mets are showing that now.

    ———————-

    True fans won’t go for rebuilding which is why the Yankees always did the incorporate young talent but remain competitive plan when Cash took full control.

  152. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    WYH-

    No I Don’t agree at all on that about Bailey.

    His trend line is fantastic.

    He has top drawer stuff and his WHIP has bee steadily inching down.

    I think he finally solved the C and C issues that were holding him back.

    I see him below 4.00 No idea how much below. The potential to continue to improve is certainly there.

    And IMO there is no way CC is going to be anywhere near that bad again.

    Kuroda will not fade because he will rested a it more.

    That pen could be a little stronger I agree but it could work.

  153. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2013 at 6:51 pm
    MTU,

    Bailey would put up an ERA of 4.00 to 4.25 in the AL pitching in the Stadium, you agree?

    Bailey pitched in a bandbox. 2nd highest HR park factor in 2013.

  154. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    Teddyballgame13 December 10th, 2013 at 6:52 pm
    @bigdan

    That’s why I thought Matt Holliday would be the perfect Yankee when he was a free agent a few years ago….good contact hitter, pretty good OBP, not crazy power but always hits for a high average. Would’ve loved to have Holliday in LF….and with the crazy contracts that are being signed now, he would’ve been a bargain.

    ________

    That was a miss. Blake’s been saying that for years.

    The Stick method works best in high pressure games against the best pitching. A Stick disciple is a good hitter, he can hit for average. He’s not going to be afraid of two strikes because he has good contact skills and because he knows the strike zone he won’t swing at the third pitch he sees for strike three on slider off the plate. He’s not trying to win the game with one swing so he’ll go the other way if he has too. He’s willing to let the line-up behind him clean up for him. Basically he’s a tough at bat. But enough of them together even the best pitchers tire out. Remember how the Yanks beat Pedro? And he was the best.

    That’s what they have to get back to. Paulie should be their hitting coach.

  155. blake December 10th, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    “By fangraphs. I already linked you the article. You keep going on and on with all your “opinions” yet you ground none of them in fact.”

    And that article is fact?

  156. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    i cant understand why the rockies traded fowler nor can i understand why anyone else wanted him.

    he only hits at coors field.

  157. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    I think Girardi answered an effing question, but it’s also not beyond the realm of possibility that he’s not going to protect Cano’s privacy at this point, nor has any motivation to do so.

    I was around pro athletes for 12 years. You have no idea how often players byatch about not getting power-play time, or being on the second PPU, or having to play a cover 2 instead of man (because it undermines their abilities), I could go on and on…

    For all the world, many of these are “team” players…. and they are. They’re just not robots, and they have their own ideas. Doesn’t mean they’re clubhouse lawyers, or that they don’t support the greater cause, and all that other BS we’re now certain to hear about Cano for as long as there are critics of not pursuing him effectively, of not extending him when they could, of not getting anything at all for him…

    But lap it up, go right ahead.

  158. mick December 10th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    River Ave to be renamed Rivera Ave?…Is this true?

  159. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Dinner time.

    I’ll be back.

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Gee, Andy Pettitte complained about us having no offense after a loss…

    what a “crybaby” “loser” that guy is…. “making excuses” for a loss… :roll:

  161. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    “Boston proved last year how important it is to have quality role players/ bench players that they can rotate in and give them production. A bench of Ichiro, nunez, ryan, cervelli, brings very little offense, absolutely zero power, and minimal defense.”

    Cervelli is actually a solid hitter for a C, especially a C, and hits LHP very well. There’s no real point in isolating power without considering overall offensive production. d

    Baseball isn’t just offense, and both Ichiro and Ryan are more than adequate bench players.

    Nunez has really stunk to date and I have no idea if he’ll actually be on the bench. If he is all season, I’d guess it’s because he’s put it together at least a little.

    Really, though, any time you are using one example to say that something was “proven” to be true you are wrong. (You can use one example to say that something is not true, but not to say that something is true.) The Red Sox bench didn’t really have a history of hitting the way they did in 2013. Especially not Iglesias and Nava. Carp had hit one season and not the next. They didn’t have a bunch of guys who had hit in 2012 and then kept it up. They had a bunch of guys who hadn’t been hitting and did. Same could theoretically happen to any team. Using historical data can give you probabilities of future outcomes, but it’s not a perfect predictor.

  162. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    cano complained about batting second. girardi acknowleged that was the case.

    a few people commented on it. nobody ‘lapped it up.’

    you’re the one making the biggest deal out if it.

  163. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
    Gee, Andy Pettitte complained about us having no offense after a loss…

    what a “crybaby” “loser” that guy is…. “making excuses” for a loss… :roll:

    ————

    lol :D

  164. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    ““By fangraphs. I already linked you the article. You keep going on and on with all your “opinions” yet you ground none of them in fact.”

    And that article is fact?”

    Do you understand what a projection is? When I say that a rotation is “projected to be X” do you take that to mean that it will definitely be the 4th best rotation in baseball next season?

    This is a serious question. In your aggressive rage to be the alpha-commenter on this blog, do you actually take the time to leaner anything about statistics? How old are you?

  165. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Did I say that I think they have the 4th best rotation? Pretty sure that I said that fangraphs says they have the 4th best rotation in MLB.”

    Well if you’re using that as evidence for your argument then you must out stock in it…..I don’t think you could find a single executive in baseball that would even put the yanks current rotation in the top 10…..if CC doesn’t bounce back it could be one of the worst

  166. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    “Do you understand what a projection is? When I say that a rotation is “projected to be X” do you take that to mean that it will definitely be the 4th best rotation in baseball next season?”

    Projections are fine if they make sense….

  167. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Bench player? Ichiro is dead weight at this point.

  168. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    “This is a serious question. In your aggressive rage to be the alpha-commenter on this blog, do you actually take the time to leaner anything about statistics? How old are you?”

    You’ve done nothing but talk in circles….kinda what you do best

  169. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Towers should have known he stepped in it when his offer was Immediately accepted.

  170. Tabbert December 10th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Ted Nelson- Fair enough. I agree with you on cervelli, but Ryan, Nunez, and Ichiro, don’t give you much offense, and virtually zero power. This is why I think it’s important that Johnson slides back into the ” role player” situation and we also give Almonte ( who is tearing it up in winter ball) a shot as our fourth outfielder. This Gives you Cervelli, whom is a decent offensive player, it gives you two guys in Almonte, and Johnson, that provide pop, and wont kill you on defense. That leaves you with Ryan as your super utility guy that will bring you solid defense whenever he is needed to play. That bench has offense, pop, and decent defense. That’s a helluva a lot better than what it currently looks like.

  171. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    In your aggressive rage to be the alpha-commenter on this blog,

    —————————————-

    You haven’t been here long enough lol

  172. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    I must admit Mr. Nelson I’m duly surprised that Fangraphs ranks the Yanks’ rotation that high. The relies on a strong comeback for CC, more of the same from Kuroda and 3+ WAR by Nova. I would consider that a bit optimistic. Let’s hope they are right.

  173. chicken_stanley December 10th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Anyone – how do I type the “rolling eyes” emoticon?

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    I covered a team with a RB who ran for 1,000 yards. He would bounce it outside and fans would complain he didn’t have the mettle to run inside.

    What they didn’t or refused to understand was that this guy wasn’t going to consistently work as a dive guy; but he could break a game open by getting to the outside and using his feet….he could not stay inside and plough, he’d have to make a cutback move or something to gain any ground; just wasn’t built for it.

    There’s always a guy – and it’s by and large, the most talented guy on the team (alert: fan cannot relate to this guy/fan envies this guy) – that fans decide isn’t a “true” (insert name of team). Meanwhile, the team would stink without that guy. When that guy is moved or walks, it’s open season on why he “had to go” because he wasn’t really a “team player.”

    Sorry, but lots of fans are dummies played by team management/ownership like a fiddle.

  175. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    - TED -
    Do NOT let them run you off. The same Garbage was thrown at me when I arrived, and continues to this day. Maybe we should start a Union.

  176. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    “I must admit Mr. Nelson I’m duly surprised that Fangraphs ranks the Yanks’ rotation that high. The relies on a strong comeback for CC, more of the same from Kuroda and 3+ WAR by Nova. I would consider that a bit optimistic. Let’s hope they are right.”

    It’s a lot optimistic to me…..I mean if CC bounces back to his norm and Kuroda holds on another year and nova is the 2013 version and no the 2012 version then maybe…..but that’s a whole lot of ifs and that’s just for the 3 “knowns” in the rotation…..there are 2 total unknowns with whole other levels of risk

  177. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    “now admit they boned it with Ubaldo by dealing Pomeranz. No direction, No hope.”

    You really prefer that a team not admit its mistakes? (Not sure that’s exactly what happened here–they got a very talented P, but surely DP didn’t work out the way that they hoped.) Just bullheadedly stick with whatever decision you made years ago and not monitor how that decision actually worked out?

  178. hardwired7 December 10th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Prediction: The Yanks get under $189M, MLB implements a “Yankees tax” and gets their pound of flesh anyway.

  179. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    JAP-

    I can’t see how anyone could doubt Cano’s talent on both sides of the ball.

    I don’t see that open to question FWIS.

  180. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    You go with a young Chucker, you Must stick with him. And Ubaldo was Not dealt eons ago.

  181. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Oh my bad, I forgot that JAP has superior intellect to nearly everyone. :roll:

  182. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    you’re the one making the biggest deal out if it.
    ///

    YsGuy,

    There is a thread devoted to it, and I’m the one saying it is NOT a big deal.

    Players complaining about manager/coach moves goes on all the time.

    I covered the stupid pro sports world for 12 years; players complained to me, off the record, all. the. time.

    Players who were universally regarded as “team” guys, as well as players who were seen as “primadonnas”, usually because they were the scorers or the skills players.

  183. DONNYBROOK December 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Girardi coming on next. YAWN

  184. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: #SFGiants not interested in Ichiro. Seek righty hitter to platoon with blanco and/or power.

  185. Hans Davenport December 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
    Really, I don’t know why I bother.

    You cannot fool us. These are the Yankees. They would never do that. They are about Truth, Justice and the American way!

  186. Against All Odds December 10th, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    Guys help chicken with the roll eyes emoticon

  187. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Oh my bad, I forgot that JAP has superior intellect to nearly everyone. :roll:
    ///

    Well, I know when I’m being steered/played by team management, that’s for sure.

    It’s so transparent, I’m always surprised, all over again, that the “dirty laundry” timing isn’t transparent to most people.

    Just get little Toto to tug on that curtain, and you’ll see Randy Levine behind it :)

  188. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Come on Donny nobody tried to run you off….I will say though with your eyes and Teds stats you guys could be unbeatable….

  189. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Confident in Kuroda
    Confident in Nova

    CC, no idea. But one would think he would have to be better. CC is key, if he pitches like a #5 again, everyone else has to move up a spot.

  190. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    maybe one person (besides you) made it a big deal, none as big as you have.

    but thank god we have someone to save us from being bamboozled by the lying-dog yankees.!

  191. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    Hans Davenport December 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
    Really, I don’t know why I bother.

    You cannot fool us. These are the Yankees. They would never do that. They are about Truth, Justice and the American way!
    ///

    Mea culpa. I’ll just go to the end of the line, humbly extend my empty bowl, lower my eyes, and hope Randy Levine will ladle out some gruel for me. :)

  192. Tabbert December 10th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    As Ted Nelson points out, our entire Pitching staff ( as is) ranks 13th overall according to Fangraphs. This does not include another starting pitcher, and bullpen help. Also, if you feel confident that CC will bounce back, that adds even more value to the entire staff.

    Lets just say for the Yankees added Colon (3.9 WAR) Logan ( 0.3 WAR) that would equal a 18.2 WAR for the entire pitching staff, which would have been good enough for fourth overall last year. Obviously that is based of last year, and you would have to go with projections to gauge this years staff, and as well know, projections are just projections. However, I just want to point out that Ted Nelson has been spot on with his analysis of our rotation.

  193. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    This isn’t just a rumor though, it’s a fact.

    Anyway, it’s not a huge deal, Cano isn’t the only player with an ego, you would just think that if hitting 2nd is ok with Jeter, it should be ok with Cano.

  194. Ys Guy December 10th, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    im pretty sure is colon roll colon no spaces.

    :roll:

  195. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Fangraphs also has Phelps giving us 185 innings next year out of the four spot. I’ll take that. Big miss on Nuno though. Next year’s ROY and Co-MVP with Nunie!

  196. RadioKev December 10th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    I would never give up a top prospect for a reclamation project. That’s where Ackley’s value stands. Just a no can do. That said, I would want to add him on the cheap.

    I’m mildly surprised that Cano actually did have a problem with batting 2nd, but I believe Girardi that it was all sorted out. I doubt it became a problem.

    I’d still like the Yankees to sign Tanaka. Seems like the best value out there, and I don’t think pulling the Santana-Sabathia ‘wait-it-out’ makes sense. The market has changed since then, and many of the expected free agents will be extended, or highly overpaid.

  197. Tabbert December 10th, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Blake- for what is worth, streamer projects a 2.1 WAR for David Phelps. Interestingly enough, they give home bailey a 2.1 WAR projection for next season.

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    JAP-

    I can’t see how anyone could doubt Cano’s talent on both sides of the ball.

    I don’t see that open to question FWIS.
    ///

    They can’t doubt that, which is why the Yankees are going for the “intangibles” angle.

    It’s fairly obvious what is going on.

    Cano killed it – positively killed it, with RISP and in high leverage last year, killing another disaparaging meme about him with facts.

    But you can’t really disprove that ole’ “clubhouse character” stuff…

  199. RadioKev December 10th, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    I also imagine Granderson was having a little harmless fun with his “True New Yorkers” comment. He knows that will appeal to Mets fans.

  200. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    The fangraphs projections aren’t all that optimistic. Mostly, they have people repeating their 2013 or taking a step back. They have CC taking a 1 WAR step back, but only about half way back. http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=P

    Blake can pretend whatever he wants in his head, but fangraphs numbers are using an actual objective model. Certainly any model is going to contain errors plus fail to exactly predict future results, but it’s infinitely more objective than random fans’ comments.

  201. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Tabbert-

    That is a joke.

    ;)

  202. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Tabbert says:
    December 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm
    Blake- for what is worth, streamer projects a 2.1 WAR for David Phelps. Interestingly enough, they give home bailey a 2.1 WAR projection for next season.

    Do you really think they are equals? I mean this is where projection and real life don’t always match up…..one guy has proven himself in the big leagues and has gotten better each of the last 5 seasons and the other has never pitched a full season and was hurt in 2013

  203. bigdan22 December 10th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    From the sounds today, it doesn’t look like the Yanks can afford Colon. MLBTR predicts he’ll cost north of $10MM for just one year.

  204. RadioKev December 10th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:31 pm
    Do you really think they are equals? I mean this is where projection and real life don’t always match up…..one guy has proven himself in the big leagues and has gotten better each of the last 5 seasons and the other has never pitched a full season and was hurt in 2013
    ———-

    Plus Phelps ain’t going 200 IP+ in 2014.

  205. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    JAP-

    My opinion of Cano is surely not going to be conditioned that way.

    I don’t blame him one bit for taking the money.

    It’s what 99% of ballplayers do.

    If someone feels the need to knock him because he decided to leave for it.

    That’s on them. Makes them look small IMO.

    Most people I would think see right thru the character assassination type stuff.

  206. Tabbert December 10th, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Blake- No. But, what else do we have to do in the off-season? I’ve gone through baseball musings lineup analysis a million times, and fangraphs a million times, just trying to gauge what our team might actually look like in terms of value next season. Obviously projections are the be all end all, but it is a starting point.

  207. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Tabbert-

    And I happen to like Phelps.

    He can’t touch Bailey.

  208. MTU December 10th, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    El Neuvo Hilo——->

  209. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    MTU,

    One would think…

  210. blake December 10th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Ted,
    You can feel free to believe the current rotation is good enough…..I kinda doubt anybody in the game would agree with you but you’re free to have your opinions.

    This whole thing started by me saying that the yanks needed to so more to justify the money they have already spent.

    One “projection” I read had them currently at 84 wins…..that’s not good enough when you’ve spent 300+ million and have lost all your top draft picks in the next draft.

    The yanks made the decision to be all in when they signed Ellsbury, McCann, and Beltran…..and when they forfeited pieces to rebuild with in the draft.

    If you think they are good enough as is then ok…..but I don’t see them currently much better than 2013…..the pitching is currently worse as they have subtracted Pettite and Mo and not replaced them yet

  211. bbb51 December 10th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    btw, cano

    hitting #2: .955 OPS

    hitting #3: .886 OPS

    :D

  212. Ted Nelson December 10th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    “I don’t think you could find a single executive in baseball that would even put the yanks current rotation in the top 10″

    Have you polled even one MLB executive on the subject?

    “You can feel free to believe the current rotation is good enough…”

    Thanks for your permission.

    “One “projection” I read had them currently at 84 wins…”

    Source? I cite the most reputable baseball quant site out there, you use an anonymous source…

    “I don’t see them currently much better than 2013″

    Care to provide any evidence?

    “Projections are fine if they make sense….”

    How much do you know about building models? In all seriousness.

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