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Cashman: Ellsbury signing a direct reaction to Cano concerns

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Jacoby Ellsbury

This seemed to be the case from the beginning, but Brian Cashman left no doubt today: The Yankees went after Jacoby Ellsbury as a direct reaction to their early concerns about re-signing Robinson Cano.

“We tried to take (Ellsbury) off the board as early as we could,” Cashman said. “Especially with the feeling of how the conversations with Robbie Cano were going. We were like, we better start moving on some things because Robbie’s not going to be here. It was clear. We’d been trying to match up with Robbie since spring training, and by all the conversations and where they were heading, we wound up regrouping. I talked to Hal and Randy and said, ‘We have to start moving now.’ To move early, you have to move up and separate yourself from the pack. That was a concerted effort to do so, and we were happy that we were able to do so. I think it would be harder on us if Robbie moved before we had, for instance, a player like Jacoby in the fold.”

Cashman confirmed the Cano’s camp made a late offer of $235 million — a tiny discount from the deal they had in hand from the Mariners — but the Yankees made it clear they had not been bluffing when they said seven years and $175 million was the highest they would go.

“There was always that uncertainty,” Cashman said. “The hunch was, after the $310 (million) request (from Cano’s camp), and then that sat for a while, then we started really drilling down early into the free agent process this winter and weren’t getting any dialogue or traction or positive momentum (from Cano). It just felt like, this wasn’t going to happen. You just don’t know. I had a conversation with Brodie in Orlando after we got in there and I think that there’s always that wonder of, are they bluffing? Are you bluffing? Both sides look at each other and think, I don’t know if they’re going to get what they’re looking for. They obviously did.

“I think there was a period of time where they thought we were going to eventually jump in and jump up to a level that we were saying every step of the way that we weren’t going to. Obviously in the end they realized, we were negotiating honestly, as we try to do every time, and directly. But I think the believability didn’t settle in until they had their offer in hand with Seattle, and they put the $235 (million) to us. And when we said no and we stuck at $175 (million), they realized, wow, they really were serious.”

Associated Press photo

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229 Responses to “Cashman: Ellsbury signing a direct reaction to Cano concerns”

  1. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    This actually makes a lot of sense.

    People have said that Ellsbury’s contract prevented them from signing Cano but what you’re hearing here is that the Yankees knew what was happening with Cano and made this move already knowing Robbie was gone.

    The timing was off because Robbie didn’t sign until after Ellsbury, but it’s one of those things where Cashman didn’t know exactly where Cano was going to land, but he knew it wasn’t going to be in New York.

  2. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Afternoon.

    Had to leave the command bunker and go to an alternate location.

    Network problems w the primary.

    Posting will be more sporadic until it gets sorted out.

    MTU out.

    :)

  3. ConcernedCitizen December 13th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    The $5 million discount Robbie offered to New York is probably half of what his house in Seattle will cost.

  4. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    I’d be really shocked if Tanaka isn’t posted.

    I’d consider the odds at 95% he is.

    Then the question will be how bad the Yankees want him ?

    They will have serious and significant competition.

    He will be very costly.

    Does Hal have the stomach for that ?

  5. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Time to move on from Cano.

  6. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    MTU – 6 years $18/year

  7. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    As I’ve been saying forever….if they never intented to go above 175 for Cano then they should have traded him in July

  8. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    It depends on who is playing 2b and 3b.

    If the Yankees sign Omar Infante then Baker’s likely getting reps at 3b with Kelly Johnson. If they sign Wilson Betemit to play 3b then he might split time at 2b with Kelly Johnson. If they sign Eric Chavez then he could end up playing a little of both.

    So if they get Baker that spells the end of Nunez. Assuming 12 pitchers..

    OF – Gardner, Ellsbury, Beltran, Soriano, Ichiro (5)
    IF – Jeter, Teixeira, Johnson, ???, Baker, Ryan (6)
    C – McCann, Cervelli (2)

    The question marks being Chavez/Infante/Betemit/whatever

  9. hardwired7 December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Cano insisting on 10 years put an extra $20-30M in Ellsbury’s bank account. He’s the one who should be handing out flowers – to Cano and Jay-Z.

  10. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    I’m calling 6/100 for Tanaka but he could get more

  11. chicken little December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Usually don’t agree with Randy Levine, but I think he is right on this:

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

  12. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    As I’ve been saying forever….if they never intented to go above 175 for Cano then they should have traded him in July

    This

  13. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Sign Tanaka, sign either Drew or infante, sign a reliever or two and lets play ball

  14. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    That’s actually a pretty large lowball.

    Trout gets 15 years easy

  15. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    Well it’s never worked out….actually the examples there are have been terrible

  16. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    hectorlopez,

    If the season starts today, the Mariners are 10 wins worse than the Yankees on paper. They are basically a 75 win team right now, Yanks are around 85 wins.

  17. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Chip/Blake -

    You didn’t answer the question I posed.

    I didn’t ask how much he would go for.

    I asked if Hal has the stomach for it ?

    That’s a lot of moolah. And a lot of risk.

    And he really doesn’t like bidding wars.

    ;)

  18. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    It wouldn’t shock me if Cashman, Levine, Hal and Boras had a little extended chat after today’s festivities.

    Topics to be discussed include:

    Stephen Drew on a 4 year $48 mil deal with the knowledge that the first year is spent at 2b or 3b and then he’ll likely spend the next three at SS with Derek retiring.

    Ollie Perez as a LOOGY (though I think Boone Logan’s insane contract will make the Yankees look internal for that)

    Suk-Min Yoon a Korean pitcher who is 27, had some arm problems but might be worth looking at as a reliever/back of the rotation guy

    Kendrys Morales and Choo – because why not but I don’t think either of those guys are fits.

  19. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    It depends on who is playing 2b and 3b.

    If the Yankees sign Omar Infante then Baker’s likely getting reps at 3b with Kelly Johnson. If they sign Wilson Betemit to play 3b then he might split time at 2b with Kelly Johnson. If they sign Eric Chavez then he could end up playing a little of both.

    So if they get Baker that spells the end of Nunez. Assuming 12 pitchers..

    OF – Gardner, Ellsbury, Beltran, Soriano, Ichiro (5)
    IF – Jeter, Teixeira, Johnson, ???, Baker, Ryan (6)
    C – McCann, Cervelli (2)

    The question marks being Chavez/Infante/Betemit/whatever
    ————————–

    I think the money they gave to Ryan indicated the end of Nunez…fact is he has an option left.

    I also think you can delete Ichiro – more likely at this point that Wells is here than Ichiro.

  20. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    MTU,

    If you can get tanaka for 6/100 plus 20 posting or Garxa or Santana for 5/85 then which are you doing ?

    I want tanaka but really I would take any of them

  21. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Steve-

    If you are out there.

    Just so you know.

    My e-mail is down. Might be for a while.

    :(

  22. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    MTU –

    Yes, I think that Hal will be all in on Tanaka.

  23. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Tanaka is a risk but 25 year old starters basically never are available as free agents

  24. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Blake –

    In order of preference:

    Tanaka
    Garza
    Johan Santana
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Barry Zito
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Ervin Santana

    I just don’t trust Ervin plus he was given a QO.

  25. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Chip-

    Just wondered what people think.

    I’ll be surprised if he all in.

    He like to set targets and stick to them.

    Maybe this will be an exception.

    He’s going to have to fight to get him. That means money.

    Guess well find out.

  26. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Chip,

    I think Wells is an easy cut. Doesn’t count against the luxury tax and he’s completely cooked. Ichiro at least still plays defense and steal bases. Also Ichiro is getting paid a lot, might be difficult to move him.

    Also I’m unsure if the Yankees would want to give Drew a 4 year deal. Maybe they are staying away from this year’s free agent infielders because they are targeting Hanley next offseason

  27. RadioKev December 13th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
    Tanaka is a risk but 25 year old starters basically never are available as free agents
    ————

    Yeah, a risk worth taking.

  28. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees will go after Tanaka at all. They seem to be done spending. I really hope I’m wrong because it would be a pretty big mistake

  29. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Joba: “We’re starting a new chapter here. … The past is the past and I’ve learned from it.”

    ***Joba is so funny. Best laugh on a Friday. Joba hasn’t learned anything. What sort of difference will he make for the Tigers in 2014? None. He will be just as inconsistent. Looking forward to Joba telling Miggie to “sssshhhhhhhh” at some point during the season

  30. pkyankfan69 December 13th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    CC – Kuroda – Tanaka – Nova – Pineda/Phelps/Warren (with possible in season contributions from Ramirez/Banuelos) — Definitely still has its question marks but there should be strong depth and it is without question that they have the potential to be a formidable rotation… CC getting back to at least close to his old form is vital.

  31. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    My opinion is that they will go after Tanaka but not go all in on him.

    I think they’ll have a max. price in mind and will not exceed it.

    They’ll just make him what they think is a fair offer.

    If that works fine. if not I see them walking away.

    Hope I’m wrong.

  32. bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Usually don’t agree with Randy Levine, but I think he is right on this:

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    ______________

    I was going to post this as well. Isn’t this tampering? I don’t think you can even joke about stuff like this. I know if I were Angels I’d be none too happy. The Yanks are telling the world, and Trout, that if you were with us, or would consider us when you are a free agent, we’d sign you for 10 years.

    I think someone needs to go visit the principal.

  33. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Chip,
    I don’t think the draft picks matter anymore much….they have already lost all their best ones.

    1. Tanaka
    2. Garza
    3. Erving Santana

    50 feet of crap

    Everybody else

  34. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    MTU,

    That plan is bound to fail, every team in baseball is in on Tanaka. The only advantage the Yankees have is that they are richer than every team. They MUST go all-in to get the player.

  35. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    My opinion is that they will go after Tanaka but not go all in on him.

    I think they’ll have a max. price in mind and will not exceed it.

    They’ll just make him what they think is a fair offer.

    If that works fine. if not I see them walking away.

    Hope I’m wrong.
    ——————————————————————–
    Last night ESPN talked in depth about Tanaka and how he can instantly be the ace of any MLB staff.
    To pencil him in for 15 wins(minimum).
    Tanaka throws 91-93, but he has a devastating splitter that will frustrate hitters.

    SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN!
    Hope the Yankes can secure his rights.

  36. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    I haven’t been able to keep up with the news.

    Has there been any more scuttlebutt on if and when Tanaka gets posted ?

  37. pkyankfan69 December 13th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    corey hart who hit 30 homers last year
    ———-
    Corey Hart didn’t play last year due to knee problems… Still a good addition for Seattle but no nearly a sure thing he will return to prior form.

  38. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    Usually don’t agree with Randy Levine, but I think he is right on this:

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    ______________

    I was going to post this as well. Isn’t this tampering? I don’t think you can even joke about stuff like this. I know if I were Angels I’d be none too happy. The Yanks are telling the world, and Trout, that if you were with us, or would consider us when you are a free agent, we’d sign you for 10 years.

    I think someone needs to go visit the principal.
    ———————————————————-
    Dan-
    I support what Randy said. Which makes it very easy for me to understand why
    Cano was not retained.

    Yankees have been burned by the 10 year deals. MLB has been burned by 10 year deals.
    Players can ask for those numbers but it doesn’t mean every team will agree to those
    demands.

  39. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Fake Peter Gammons ?@FakePeteGammons 45m
    #Yankees manager Joe Girard called @JacobyEllsbury a flower. I’d love to take 1 last bath in those petals! This is Peter Gammons #RedSox

  40. RadioKev December 13th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
    I don’t think the Yankees will go after Tanaka at all. They seem to be done spending. I really hope I’m wrong because it would be a pretty big mistake
    ———–

    Joel Sherman ?@Joelsherman1 11 Dec
    Cashman on if holding back $ in Hal’s budget that could go now for 2b, SP, etc wait for Tanaka “no, we r ready to rock and roll”

    I dunno. To me that doesn’t sound like they’re done spending.

  41. pkyankfan69 December 13th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I hope we get Tanaka… 25 year old FA starters who are likely entering their prime don’t grow on trees… I’d much rather take a chance on him then give a big contract to Garza/Santata/Ubaaaaldo.

  42. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    All the hype on Tanaka is ridiculous.

    He has yet to throw a single pitch in the Majors.

    His stuff looks promising but there are many factors to consider aside from pure stuff.

    There is no question that he comprises a big risk.

    Especially at the price he is likely to command.

    No one knows how he will translate to the States.

    To compare him to Kuroda is ridiculous.

    The comparison does not consider several important things.

    It’s premature and superficial.

    There is a lot more to Pitching than just stuff.

    ;)

  43. bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Last night ESPN talked in depth about Tanaka and how he can instantly be the ace of any MLB staff.
    To pencil him in for 15 wins(minimum).
    Tanaka throws 91-93, but he has a devastating splitter that will frustrate hitters.

    ___________

    i said this a few days ago. If the Yanks signed Tanaka he’d be their No. 1. In April. In Japan, he’s Rivera for 9 innings.

  44. Jason Voorhees December 13th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I get a kick out of the Fake Peter Gammons tweets.

  45. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Patrick –

    I think Wells says because Ichiro’s going to ask to go. I think the Yankees will try to do what’s right by him and let him move somewhere that he’s going to have a chance of playing rather than ending his career as a defensive replacement for Carlos Beltran.

    You might be right about them buying time for Hanley Ramirez…personally I hope that they’re waiting to pounce when Almedys Diaz is eligible to sign in a couple of months.

    I think the deal with Drew is that they need to wait for him to realize that the only starting SS jobs open to him are the Red Sox on a short term contract (so as to not block Bogarts) or the Mets. Other than that he doesn’t seem to have much of a market.

    I don’t think they’re done spending, just taking a pause. They got three big targets off the board, are waiting to find out if one is going to be available (Tanaka). They did make an offer to Infante that’s on the table. I just don’t think they see the pitchers that are available (Garza, E. Santana) as being guys they feel compelled to move on.

  46. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
    Last night ESPN talked in depth about Tanaka and how he can instantly be the ace of any MLB staff.
    To pencil him in for 15 wins(minimum).
    Tanaka throws 91-93, but he has a devastating splitter that will frustrate hitters.

    ___________

    i said this a few days ago. If the Yanks signed Tanaka he’d be their No. 1. In April. In Japan, he’s Rivera for 9 innings.
    —————————————————–
    I won’t compare Tanaka to Mo, but ESPN made it very clear Tanaka is the real deal.
    Time will tell.
    He could be awesome or the next Irabu.
    It’s a risk but at this point a risk worth taking as far as the Yankees are concerned.
    Currently this team does not have a legit #1.
    C.C.-forget about it. He is no longer a legit #1. He is the new Mussina. Which means if he locates well there is no reason why C.C. cannot win 20 games like Mussina did.

  47. Howler December 13th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    ESPN likes to blow out the hype..they’re the last place I’ll go to for accurate reporting…instantly the ace of any MLB staff..that’s a funny one.

  48. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Chip,

    I hope you are right but I just get the sense that the Yankees feel they can piece the rest of the team together with a bunch of cheap players and hope to get lucky.

  49. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    You guys are way too optimistic on Tanaka IMO

    If it were me. Stuff or not I’d pencil him in at no more than a #4 and hope for better.

    I sure as heck wouldn’t pay him as a certified top of the rotation starter.

    A conservative projection makes much more sense.

    I would not want to be the people responsible for the decision.

    He could be anything from a Darvish to a Dice-K, or anything in between.

    No telling until he takes an ML mound.

    ;)

  50. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    if the yankees get tanaka ,then the yankees are back in the game.

    but if they don’t, then what?

    Then they will be in the middle of the pack in the AL. Still a small chance to make the playoffs but no guarantees

  51. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    You guys are way too optimistic on Tanaka IMO

    If it were me. Stuff or not I’d pencil him in at no more than a #4 and hope for better.

    I sure as heck wouldn’t pay him as a certified top of the rotation starter.

    A conservative projection makes much more sense.

    I would not want to be the people responsible for the decision.

    He could be anything from a Darvish to a Dice-K, or anything in between.

    No telling until he takes an ML mound.

    ;)
    ——————————————————————-
    So is he worth the risk or is he not worth the risk?

    I say yes.

  52. Russell Munson December 13th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    “those two push seattle up more than four games. more like 7-8 games better.”

    And they lost Saunders, Ibanez, Morse and Morales.

    75 wins seems about right.

  53. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I’m out for now.

    I’ll try to check back later.

  54. bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Look at Tanaka’s numbers in Japan. He’s very similar to Riveria in profile. Perhaps a little lower in Ks, but he doesn’t walk guys, or give up homers and for the last three years his WHIP was well below 1.00!!

    Now obviously that wouldn’t convert directly in the MLs but Japan players are extremely easy to scout and profile, for reasons I’ve discussed before. The risk here is how he’ll perform in NY more than anything else. History is mixed in that regard.

  55. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Yanks are just a couple of pieces away from being pretty good….

  56. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    MTU,

    I think the Yankees just have to trust their scouts when it comes to Tanaka. If they say he can be a top of the rotation starter then Cashman should be ALLL IN on Tanaka. 25 years old potential ace? Hell yes.

    Just look at how the Rangers handled Darvish. They scouted him more than any team in baseball, they had a scout at every one of his games. Jon Daniels went out to Japan several times to watch him. They did their homework and made an educated decision that he was a major league ace and they went all in. Turns out they were right.

  57. chicken little December 13th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    if the yankees don’t get tanaka i hope they don’t sign one of the “big name” free agent pitchers to an insane contract. i hope cashman takes the approach of bringing in mid level place holders and waiting until next year because as of now there are about 5-6 guys that are ace material, and probably 2 or so actually end up making it to free agency.

  58. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Yanks are just a couple of pieces away from being pretty good….

    Get a legit starting infielder and a middle of the rotation starter or better. That’s easily worth an additional 6-7 wins right? All of a sudden the Yanks are one of the top 3 best teams in the AL…

  59. MTU December 13th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    WTP-

    It depends on what the Yankee evaluators say his ceiling and floor are, and then the price they would have to pay.

    It’s a risk/reward assessment.

    I have no idea what they are recommending.

    No one does.

    Their bid should reflect the evaluation.

    See ya later.

  60. bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    Usually don’t agree with Randy Levine, but I think he is right on this:

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    ______________

    I was going to post this as well. Isn’t this tampering? I don’t think you can even joke about stuff like this. I know if I were Angels I’d be none too happy. The Yanks are telling the world, and Trout, that if you were with us, or would consider us when you are a free agent, we’d sign you for 10 years.

    I think someone needs to go visit the principal.
    ———————————————————-
    Dan-
    I support what Randy said. Which makes it very easy for me to understand why
    Cano was not retained.

    Yankees have been burned by the 10 year deals. MLB has been burned by 10 year deals.
    Players can ask for those numbers but it doesn’t mean every team will agree to those
    demands.

    ————-

    It’s not a question of whether Levine is right about giving Trout a 10 year deal. Team officials are not allowed to say stuff like that about players who are currently under the control of another team. You can’t even talk about pending FAs that way until they actually become free agents. I think this is tampering and the Yanks could get fined or punished in some way. You may even lose draft picks over somethng like this. The Angels could raise a huge stink especially given all the grief they got over Trout last year.

  61. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Get a legit starting infielder and a middle of the rotation starter or better. That’s easily worth an additional 6-7 wins right? All of a sudden the Yanks are one of the top 3 best teams in the AL…”

    Yup ….they are too close to having A decent team to stop now

  62. Russell Munson December 13th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Ideally Levine gets banned from baseball for tampering.

  63. comet December 13th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    To me it isn’t so hard to understand why Cano would feel he wasn’t respected by the Yankees. They had just given out a huge contract to Ellsbury. Cano plays a tougher position than Ellsbury and was not offered the kind of money one should expect given the gap between them in terms of talent and health.

    It is all relative. If I was to land a job at $200,000 a year I’d feel great. But if everyone else at my company was making $190,000 and I was doing the tougher work and being more successful I’d soon begin to feel that I was being taken advantage of.

    If the Yankees had made a best offer offer of __ years and two hundred million I’d fell more comfortable with Cano leaving.

    Do I blame him for leaving? Not for a minute. The gap between the offers was too great and there is no assurance that Yankees will be contenders next year or in the foresee-able future. Seattle is a young team and appear to be serious about contending. The Yankees are an old team with farm system that is either years away or barren. They also have a lot of money tied up in declining players – Jeter, Arod, Tex, Kuroda and Sabathia.

    They are once again looking to play the game cheaply with the $189mm in payroll.

    BTW I would have matched Seattle’s offer to Cano. Pity that he wasn’t traded when he had some value left. To get only a draft pick that we will have to give up for our best player is criminal.

  64. Against All Odds December 13th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    We’d been trying to match up with Robbie since spring training, and by all the conversations and where they were heading, we wound up regrouping

    ————————

    Why didn’t you match with him two yrs ago when he approached you about an extension.

  65. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    comet December 13th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
    To me it isn’t so hard to understand why Cano would feel he wasn’t respected by the Yankees. They had just given out a huge contract to Ellsbury. Cano plays a tougher position than Ellsbury and was not offered the kind of money one should expect given the gap between them in terms of talent and health.

    It is all relative. If I was to land a job at $200,000 a year I’d feel great. But if everyone else at my company was making $190,000 and I was doing the tougher work and being more successful I’d soon begin to feel that I was being taken advantage of.

    If the Yankees had made a best offer offer of __ years and two hundred million I’d fell more comfortable with Cano leaving.

    Do I blame him for leaving? Not for a minute. The gap between the offers was too great and there is no assurance that Yankees will be contenders next year or in the foresee-able future. Seattle is a young team and appear to be serious about contending. The Yankees are an old team with farm system that is either years away or barren. They also have a lot of money tied up in declining players – Jeter, Arod, Tex, Kuroda and Sabathia.

    They are once again looking to play the game cheaply with the $189mm in payroll.

    BTW I would have matched Seattle’s offer to Cano. Pity that he wasn’t traded when he had some value left. To get only a draft pick that we will have to give up for our best player is criminal.
    ————————————————————————————————————

    I am relieved the Yankees did not match that offer.
    There is no reason to sign Cano for 10 years. Not at those prices.
    Cano might enjoy some individual success for a few years but the majority of that contract will be filled with disappointment.

  66. Against All Odds December 13th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    chicken little December 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm
    Usually don’t agree with Randy Levine, but I think he is right on this:

    “If Mike Trout was here, I’d recommend the 10-year contract. But for people over 30, I don’t believe it makes sense.” – Randy Levine

    ———————

    He has to say that after playing a role in A-rod’s 10 yr deal.

  67. Howler December 13th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Only team in the league with the cheap 189 million dollar payroll.

  68. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Well, we didn’t even offer 8… Or $200… So…

  69. 86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Levine could be fined for tampering, but more likely he’ll get a phone call telling him to watch his mouth.

    If Trout were a FA in 2015 it would be a big deal, but the Angels have him for four more years.

    It will be pretty amazing in 2018 when Trout becomes a FA before his 27th birthday… a year later it’ll be the same story with Bryce Harper.

    That’s about the same age Alex was when he signed with Texas. He really produced up to that initial contract for 2001-10…. 434 HR 1,236 RBI

  70. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Fined for tampering? Man you guys must be bored.

    He was using Trout as an example of a young 20′s player that would be worth signing to a long term deal.

  71. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Currently the yanks outfield defense is maybe the best in baseball while their infield D may be the worst…..Drew woukd really help that.

    Tanaka, Drew, maybe a flyer on Johan and then pen help and we are a contenda

  72. blake December 13th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Levines hair could probably be fined for something

  73. bigdan22 December 13th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    It’s cool that Ellsbury is part Navajo. I wish I had American Indian blood in me. The only thing that would make me prouder would be finding out one of my ancestors was a dinosaur.

  74. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    The Angels would be crazy to not try and extend Trout starting in the next year or two (if they can’t get a deal done they should trade two years of him and bring back a treasure trove of prospects). If he ever hits the market, I’d expect the Yanks to be all in.. but that’s a long way off.

  75. Triple Short of a Cycle December 13th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    So I heard Ellsbury took out a full page ad in the globe thanking the fans. I’m sure he didn’t trash the Red Sox. That is class Cano

  76. jpb173 December 13th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    I wonder if Cano’s absence will enable the maturation and development of Eduardo Nunez. I don’t think that Nunez will ever become an All-Star infielder but I’ve had a feeling that Robinson Cano wasn’t the best influence on him.

  77. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    “their infield D may be the worst”

    Unless they improve upon the IF, the Yanks are taking a page out of Trenton’s book. We always commiserated when sinker ball pitchers were pitching at Waterfront because the infield was so defensively challenged, whereas Trenton in recent memory has a history of GG CF. We’d better get add a pitcher who has high K rates.

  78. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    I thought Melky was the bad influence; looks like Cano has become the new Melky. :roll:

  79. AAA December 13th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    I wonder if Cano’s absence will enable the maturation and development of Eduardo Nunez. I don’t think that Nunez will ever become an All-Star infielder but I’ve had a feeling that Robinson Cano wasn’t the best influence on him.

    =============================

    Seriously?

  80. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Tex is very good at 1b. If they get a good fielding 2b and 3b is at least average, they should be ok.

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    jpb173 December 13th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    I wonder if Cano’s absence will enable the maturation and development of Eduardo Nunez. I don’t think that Nunez will ever become an All-Star infielder but I’ve had a feeling that Robinson Cano wasn’t the best influence on him.
    ///

    ……….

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    I thought Melky was the bad influence; looks like Cano has become the new Melky. :roll:
    ///

    Haha!

    Just keep sending those good contact hitters to the exits… Can’t abide their ilk…

  83. blake December 13th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Nunez…..lol

  84. blake December 13th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    They need to sign Drew….if he will agree to move around a little this year.

  85. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    bbb,

    Who is providing average or above defense at third? Johnson? Nunie?

  86. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    They let Granderson go and signed Beltran, Ellsbury and McCann, all of whom have good k rates relative to their hitting, so I’d say they are moving in the right direction k-wise.

  87. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    blake December 13th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    They need to sign Drew….if he will agree to move around a little this year.
    ——————-

    Blake –

    The question is do you wait for Drew to realize that his market as a SS is limited to a short term deal with the Red Sox or playing for the Mets?

  88. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    I thought Melky was the bad influence; looks like Cano has become the new Melky. :roll:

    ——————

    He was a 4th second baseman..

  89. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    blake – Drew has been tied to the Sox this entire time.. barely heard a peep about him and other clubs. I think he ends up staying there.

  90. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    You guys don’t know Cano recommended to Nunie that he close his eyes when a ground ball is coming?

  91. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    I’m sure the Red Sox are thrilled that Papi is once again trying to renegotiate his deal through the media.

    David Ortiz told reporters that his agent is talking with the Red Sox about extending his deal for another year

    In other words, his agent called, got no traction and now Ortiz is going to claim the Red Sox don’t respect him.

  92. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:20 pm
    bbb,

    Who is providing average or above defense at third? Johnson? Nunie?

    Don’t know, I’m hoping after they sign Tanaka, Arod gets totally off. :D

    I think Johnson could be average or possibly better at 3B, and/or Jeff Baker.

  93. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Shame,

    The Sox are only offering two years according to the Boston papers. I think a longer contract would get him to move. Whether he would do it to possibly play second, who knows.

  94. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    bbb, pitching K rates b/c the infield D right now is weak, as in less ground balls and more K’s to compensate…

  95. blake December 13th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    “The question is do you wait for Drew to realize that his market as a SS is limited to a short term deal with the Red Sox or playing for the Mets?”

    He may already have realized that

  96. blake December 13th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    December 13, 2013 at 2:23 pm
    blake – Drew has been tied to the Sox this entire time.. barely heard a peep about him and other clubs. I think he ends up staying there.

    Swoop ! Perfect…..helps yanks and hurts Boston…..

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    why mac, because Cano can make all the plays with his eyes closed?
    ////

    I laugh reading the blog.

    Everyone talking about how much Cano is going to regret his decision. If they’d offered 8/200, and he walked, that might have some life; but we know that did not happen.

    Perhaps the funniest comment I’ve read here:

    “Cano’s going to regret his decision big time when they start pitching around him…”

    Cannot make this stuff up.

  98. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    It wouldn’t be an offseason without Ortiz asking for an extension.

  99. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:25 pm
    bbb, pitching K rates b/c the infield D right now is weak, as in less ground balls and more K’s to compensate…

    I was referring to JAP’s comment about contact hitters. Beltran, Ellsbury and McCann are not bad at all.

  100. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    I wish we still had Cano. We would now be a far better team. That said, I understand why they didn’t offer him $235M, and I understand why he took the money. I like money myself.

    We now have a couple camps. One who believes the Yankees had some moral obligation to retain Cano and one who thinks he is a terrible human for leaving. I suggest both are wrong. It was a business decision like business decisions that are made every day all over the world.

    Can we not let it go or do we have to have another Monteroesque winter?

  101. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    bbb,

    Sign Tanaka and then AROD returns. You, sir, are a sneaky person. I like it.

  102. RhapsodyInBlue December 13th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    austinmac

    Agreed. Cano is gone, let’s move on.

  103. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Is anyone else as excited as I am that Boone Logan won’t be giving up game losing RBI’s to lefties anymore?

    SO HAPPY!

  104. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    I think that the Yanks will try hard for Tanaka but if they lose out they will be screwed. He probably won’t sign until the end of January and then Garza and all of the good starters will be off the market. It definitely makes sense to go for it but I hope they don’t get stuck with nothing.

  105. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    austinmac, can we all let go of everything we dislike about the blog? Want to see my list? Just kidding, but it really has nothing to do with “sides.” I am on the side of great Yankee baseball, but the tireless trashing of the player is what people can’t let go, and therefore, I am going to object/post in reaction to that until it stops. See if you can make it stop–good luck with that–but it is like breathing for some people.

  106. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    You guys don’t know Cano recommended to Nunie that he close his eyes when a ground ball is coming?

    ——————-

    Actually laughed out loud, mac. :lol:

    I know the Sox are shorting Drew in years but if early reports about the Yankees having offers on the table for multiple players (including Drew and Infante) were/are true, they probably have already made their best offer and Drew hasn’t taken it.

  107. bbb51 December 13th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I would love to be near Hal if he signed Tanaka and then heard Arod got 0 games.

    Of course the 2nd part is very unlikely.

  108. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I really don’t see the Yankees as players for Tanaka, especially not after signing Beltran. Why would they suddenly be able to spend probably over $100mil on a pitcher?

  109. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Hell yes. Boonie needed to go.

  110. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    If someone raises the issue of effectiveness of the team’s management, I am never bashful about pointing out their foolish decisions for the past several years.

    However, I prefer to think of the present and future. Where are we and what needs to be done.

    I have yet to figure out a way to undo what has already occurred.

  111. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    The Yankees apparently made the 3/24 offer to Infante and haven’t moved on it. Doubt they’ll move for Drew. Sounds like the initial offers they put out for everyone were pretty much set… aside from maybe that 3rd year for Beltran.

  112. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I really don’t see the Yankees as players for Tanaka, especially not after signing Beltran. Why would they suddenly be able to spend probably over $100mil on a pitcher?

    __________

    Because they have no farm and they’re admitting it now.

  113. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    YF,

    As saintly as I am I usually can’t resist responding to certain things. I get it. I just wish we could redirect our focus, but you all probably missed the memo making me king.

  114. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    SO HAPPY!

    ————-

    Me too!!

    There will be lots of new whipping boys in the pen, I’m sure lol.. but every time Logan came in I covered my eyes.

  115. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    I doubt that the Yanks are going to up the offer to Infante. The remaining money will probably be spent on a reliever and to try and sign Tanaka. The offer to Infante was fair and I can’t see any team giving him 4 years and if they do they are crazy.

  116. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    I bet they offered Drew and Infante the same years and money and basically are just seeing if either end up taking it.

  117. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Shame,

    If money was equal, which would you prefer? I would prefer Drew for 2015 and beyond for short. I would have expected Drew to earn more than Infante.

  118. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    austinmac, I attempt to do the same, but sometimes sainthood is overrated. Although, I try to pick my spots. ;) I would love to see people redirect their focuc, but I don’t get a vote, unfortunately. Yanks need to do something to help us in that regard. Something noteworthy and good for both the present and the future.

  119. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    *focus

  120. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    They had better not give Infante an additional year.

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Can we not let it go or do we have to have another Monteroesque winter?
    ///

    Here’s an idea: if the Yankees would do smart things and stop saying stupid ones, you might get your way. :)

    And more importantly, I’d get my team back.

    As for Montero, there was more Montero reverb created by the people who spent day and night trolling people like me, luis, and others who loathed the move than there was primary commentary about losing Montero (which remains relevant, since they have no young, truly projectable hitters, but that’s a separate issue).

    I was absolutely dogged by that freak Stoneburner about Montero every second, plus endless comments from a certain poster, that were either directed at, or to, me or luis, that outnumbered both of our takes by a large margin. I must have – very patiently, I might add – restated my position a hundred times to her, because she kept asking questions of me on it, and became frankly obsessive, and progressively troll-some in addressing mine and luis’s comments regarding a trade we did not like one bit.

    I am not apologizing for my focus on that trade and the offense; I am telling it like it is in stating that the “discussion” became far more prolonged by all of the trolling that ensued around it, to the point where that person and her buddy spent nearly all their time here taking pokes at us and acting as incendiaries for the very thing they claimed to want to “get past.”

    As for Cano, I would guess that the comments demonizing the player again outnumber to pushback from people like me who do not take kindly to reading cheap shots at someone who was by far our best player, and who wore the ‘stripes for nine seasons, including some of the horrible, ethnocentric, hate-filled epithets regularly directed at him and his representation.

    Furthermore, it’s clear the Yankees made no attempts to keep their best player.

    I suspect you’re going to hear his name a few times more on this blog, and probably from me, too.

    But especially during the season, when his absence will finally hit home.

  122. Ys Guy December 13th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    hal said they’re not done yet. thats encouraging!

  123. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    JAP,

    If you answered my earlier question I missed it. Do you think the team should have given him $235M? or do you think that story is not reliable?

  124. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Guys – I thought we had an agreement that we would never use the M word again…at least not until he’s back in the majors.

  125. joeman December 13th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    They had better not give Infante an additional year.
    ———————————————-
    they won’t..he’ll fish around this weekend to see whats out there and won’t see much. I have to believe he will sign here

  126. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Infante isn’t that good, I’d much rather get Drew or make a trade.

  127. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Yanks not angry at Cano, ‘feel bad for him’ http://t.co/oYZvFadyyO via @ESPNNewYork

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    austinmac,

    I think they should have offered him eight years/200M. If he balked at that, then they could have gone north of that and just have remained adamant on the eight years.

    But they did not even think their best player – by far their best player – was worth that.

    Cano’s leverage with the Yankees was raised by the team itself, because they refuse to have patience with any young player who has hitting talent, and have refused to sign any “now” IFAs that could have ameliorated the massive holes their lineup has.

    Offering Cano $175/7 is a joke, relatively speaking. We don’t know if he would have accepted a lesser deal had they showed him a “2″ and eight years, but they sure would have enhanced their chances of keeping him.

    Finally, it’s not my money and they have chosen the wrong player to make a example of.

  129. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    I understand why people are concerned that the Yankees are done because they had a quick couple of weeks and have been quiet since.

    But I think the reason they’ve been quiet is that they’re waiting:

    They have an offer to Infante out there that he’s shopping around
    They want to see what happens with Tanaka
    I’m hoping that they’re waiting to bid heavily on Diaz when he’s available in February (according to a report on MLB.com from 3 days ago they are interested – also items on other Cuban players who will be available in the next couple of weeks: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....e_64509354)

  130. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    I firmly disagree the Yankees made no attempt to keep their best palyer. They did offer him a contract last year, during the season and again this fall. The contract they offered him annually was the third best ever and over the term one of the top 8-10.

    Not enough? Maybe not, but did one other team beat it besides the Mariners who acknowledge their need to win back relevancy.

    To say they made no attempts is false. In fact, it makes many of us bristle, even those who wanted him back very much. Arguments are won by facts. Real facts. You have plenty. Use them. Invented facts are unhelpful to your evident cause.

  131. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    You fools, don’t waste your pity on Cano: feel bad for your lousy team because you cannot replace him.

    A few “good” players don’t make up for a great player. But you’ll find out soon enough, FO/owners.

  132. 86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Furthermore, it’s clear the Yankees made no attempts to keep their best player.

    ****************************************************************

    Ridiculous comment.

  133. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Infante isn’t that good, I’d much rather get Drew or make a trade.
    ——————-

    I think we all agree on the fact that Drew is better than Infante. But Drew is going to take some time. He had the chance to sign with the Yankees last year but chose Boston because he wanted to play SS not 3b. I think he’s going to make sure that there aren’t any appealing SS jobs available before he commits to a year at 2b or 3b with the Yankees.

  134. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    You fools, don’t waste your pity on Cano: feel bad for your lousy team because you cannot replace him.

    A few “good” players don’t make up for a great player. But you’ll find out soon enough, FO/owners.
    ————–

    Actually that’s completely false. The St. Louis Cardinals lost a great player and replaced him with very good players and were in the World Series last year.

  135. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Not enough? Maybe not, but did one other team beat it besides the Mariners who acknowledge their need to win back relevancy.
    ///

    Not enough: disingenuous offer.

    They knew that. This is like the Darvish bid, the Torre contract: they knew it wouldn’t get the job done.

  136. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Chip,

    I think Drew was more concerned that with A-rod and Jeter presumably coming back he would be pushed to the bench. I think you can sell him on the fact that there are plenty of openings in the infield, he could very realistically start 160 games if he wanted to and was healthy. Even if Jeter is 100% healthy and A-rod isn’t suspended, Drew can start at 2B.

    That being said, if I’m the Yankees I push Jeter to 3B and grab Drew for SS.

  137. Wave Your Hat December 13th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    “To say they made no attempts is false.”

    austinmac,

    I think it’s partly a definitional battle. I think the anti- side, with probably a few exceptions as is always the case, really means no attempts which were likely to succeed.

  138. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Prufrock – Cano’s offer from the Yankees is anything but a joke. Why SHOULD he be paid like players that he has never actually performed at the level of?

    He was offered more than what he deserved with the 7/175 deal.

  139. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    “A few “good” players don’t make up for a great player. But you’ll find out soon enough, FO/owners.”

    Every recent world series winning team begs to differ.

  140. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    St. Louis arguably has the best farm/org in baseball. Would that we could be half their org in terms of development.

    As for whether or not the Yankees truly wanted Cano… we are mere plebians but that 175 was a low offer especially given what Ells received. We can argue that all day, and we will never agree.

  141. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Patrick,

    I know your thoughts on Jeter at SS vs. 3b and you know mine. I agree that this year is different than last in that the Yankees wouldn’t be asking Drew to fill a “super-utility” role and that might make it more enticing. He just needs to decide between 2 years with Boston, SS with the Mets and 2b/3b this year with the Yankees and then the next 2 or 3 at SS.

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    St. Louis had YOUNG players to plug in from their system, and they had a guy like Holliday in the lineup as well.

    The Yankees don’t have anyone any more: what they had they dealt and then refused to seriously bid on Cespedes/Puig to mitigate their aging lineup.

    The Cardinals were in an entirely different position, and Pujols, great as he was, was not the glue of the infield as Cano has been.

  143. pkyankfan69 December 13th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Girardi isn’t going to call Ellsbury “Ellsey” is he?

  144. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    ID,

    In a void, 7 years $175 million is a fair offer. But it’s not just one team and one player; given the market, Cano was clearly worth $200 million or more. I have no problem whatsoever with the Yankees giving him a low ball take it or leave it offer and letting him walk. But they HAD to know he would get offers of over 200 million from somewhere. The fact that they didn’t even come close to that tells me they didn’t make a big effort to bring him back and that they actually should have traded him 6 months ago.

  145. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Yes, we’d of course rather have Drew than Infante…

    What was the recent purported going rate on Howell?

  146. Wave Your Hat December 13th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    “The fact that they didn’t even come close to that tells me they didn’t make a big effort to bring him back and that they actually should have traded him 6 months ago.”

    Just think how much better off the Yanks would be right now if they had a top pitching prospect from trading Cano.

  147. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    I think it was more or less a fake attempt at cano…..I would guess they thought there was a pretty decent chance Cano was leaning …..which is why they went in hard on Ellsbury when they did.

    If they really wanted to keep Cano and saw him as the face of the organization moving forward then they would have paid what it took IMO…..

  148. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    I know your thoughts on Jeter at SS vs. 3b and you know mine. I agree that this year is different than last in that the Yankees wouldn’t be asking Drew to fill a “super-utility” role and that might make it more enticing. He just needs to decide between 2 years with Boston, SS with the Mets and 2b/3b this year with the Yankees and then the next 2 or 3 at SS.

    That’s a good assessment of his market. On the other hand .. maybe one team offers a significant amount more money to sign him?

    If SS this year isn’t an option for Drew, I think you are right that you can sell him on Jeter being gone in a year. Tell him to pick 2B or 3B, play that for a year then you are our starting SS for 2015-2016 and beyond*.

  149. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Just think how much better off the Yanks would be right now if they had a top pitching prospect from trading Cano.”

    A top anything prospect….Texas may have traded Profar for him ….who knows. I doubt that but you never know what’s will do

  150. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    I know your thoughts on Jeter at SS vs. 3b and you know mine. I agree that this year is different than last in that the Yankees wouldn’t be asking Drew to fill a “super-utility” role and that might make it more enticing. He just needs to decide between 2 years with Boston, SS with the Mets and 2b/3b this year with the Yankees and then the next 2 or 3 at SS.

    That’s a good assessment of his market. On the other hand .. maybe one team offers a significant amount more money to sign him?

    If SS this year isn’t an option for Drew, I think you are right that you can sell him on Jeter being gone in a year. Tell him to pick 2B or 3B, play that for a year then you are our starting SS for 2015-2016 and beyond*.
    ——————

    My guess is that Boras, Cashman, Hal and Levine hung around after today’s event for a chat along these lines.

    4 years $48 mil…that’s a hard payday for Drew to beat right now.

  151. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    A top anything prospect….Texas may have traded Profar for him ….who knows. I doubt that but you never know what’s will do

    I doubt they could have gotten a really elite prospect like Profar but they could have gotten a good return for sure. Certainly better than a supplemental draft pick which goes away anyways

  152. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Yankees didn’t trade Cano because they were trying to get to the playoffs last year. As much as it stinks to lose him for a draft pick, can you imagine the backlash that would have come from dealing away Cano and throwing up the white flag in Rivera’s swan song year?

  153. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    The Yankees basically get a second round pick in return for Cano and a 3rd round pick in return for Granderson. Granderson probably doesn’t bring back much on the trade market but Cano …

  154. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    “Yankees didn’t trade Cano because they were trying to get to the playoffs last year”

    That was dumb though…..they got the absolute most possible out of Soriano and still came nowhere near the playoffs

  155. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Yankees didn’t trade Cano because they were trying to get to the playoffs last year. As much as it stinks to lose him for a draft pick, can you imagine the backlash that would have come from dealing away Cano and throwing up the white flag in Rivera’s swan song year?

    They weren’t making the playoffs, it was pretty obvious. I’m sure the Yankees knew it but that they feared the backlash more than they valued the trade return on Cano. Which, to me, is really dumb.

  156. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    St. Louis had YOUNG players to plug in from their system, and they had a guy like Holliday in the lineup as well.

    The Yankees don’t have anyone any more: what they had they dealt and then refused to seriously bid on Cespedes/Puig to mitigate their aging lineup.

    The Cardinals were in an entirely different position, and Pujols, great as he was, was not the glue of the infield as Cano has been.
    ——————–

    Young doesn’t mean great or even good – it means young. The Yankees don’t have an Allen Craig or a Matt Carpenter – but that’s why they went out and added 3 top notch players (so far).

    If you don’t think Pujols was every bit as important to the Cardinals as Cano was to the Yankees then you have no friggin business talking about baseball.

  157. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    The fact that the Yankees have said pretty much nothing about Drew makes me think they might sign him .

  158. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Yankees didn’t trade Cano because they were trying to get to the playoffs last year. As much as it stinks to lose him for a draft pick, can you imagine the backlash that would have come from dealing away Cano and throwing up the white flag in Rivera’s swan song year?

    They weren’t making the playoffs, it was pretty obvious. I’m sure the Yankees knew it but that they feared the backlash more than they valued the trade return on Cano. Which, to me, is really dumb.
    ————————

    It probably is, but you’re not the fan whose opinion matters to the Yankees. They count you in anyway. The Yankees were losing ratings and ticket sales and didn’t want to drop that number even more.

    Bad baseball move; understandable business decision.

  159. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Good afternoon all,

    I have a few thoughts:

    1) Cano shouldn’t have said what he did… I wouldn’t have if I were him…But offering Ellsbury 21.8 mil per season and 7 years, while their original offer to Robbie was 7/160 (22,8 mil) was kind of like low balling him. It is always the same, they get all excited about the external FA, but very rarely show the same kind of commitment toward their own. He is human after all and trust me, that had a huge impact in his decision making… It is clear that they didn’t want to retain him… If this was the case, they should have traded him while they could… We lost him in exchange for nothing… This is the worst part and this can’t be argued. I wish him the best

    2) This team seems destined to be trapped in eternal mediocrity… Without a clear plan, other than stay as close to 189 mil as possible…They have embraced mediocrity ( building a team good enough to compete for a WC spot is just that )… We lost all the 1st draft picks and we are still a few players short of a WS caliber team…They need to keep on spending…I’ll say a pyroll of around 220-230 without Arod might do the trick… Still, it would be a team with some weaknesses ( especially on the injury potential front )

  160. Russell Munson December 13th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Signing Ryan makes no sense if Drew is in play.

  161. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    It probably is, but you’re not the fan whose opinion matters to the Yankees. They count you in anyway. The Yankees were losing ratings and ticket sales and didn’t want to drop that number even more.

    I should be the ONLY fan they care about! It’s all about me!!!

  162. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Signing Ryan makes no sense if Drew is in play.

    Ryan is a bench player only. Defensive replacement type. Drew is a legitimate starting middle infielder. He’s really quite good…

  163. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    It probably is, but you’re not the fan whose opinion matters to the Yankees. They count you in anyway. The Yankees were losing ratings and ticket sales and didn’t want to drop that number even more.

    I should be the ONLY fan they care about! It’s all about me!!!
    ————-

    I’ll make a note.

  164. 86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    If you don’t think Pujols was every bit as important to the Cardinals as Cano was to the Yankees then you have no friggin business talking about baseball.

    *********************************************************************

    this X 100 — JAP are you listening?

    Also how much longer are we gonna go back to the friggin’ trading deadline?? The Yanks were THREE GAMES out of the playoffs at the deadline. It would have been a disgrace to bail on the season at that stage. They were still within that range with two weeks to go.

  165. Wave Your Hat December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    “Yankees didn’t trade Cano because they were trying to get to the playoffs last year.”

    No, the Yanks didn’t trade Cano, not because they were trying to get to the playoffs, but because the Yanks don’t operate that way and they probably thought trading him would damage their Always Winners brand.

    I never thought they would trade him, although I thought they should.

    But the league has gotten too competitive. Unless they plan to take the payroll to $250M you have to play smart and not leave cards on the table.

  166. vrsce December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Cano is gone, time to move on. I wish him well in Seattle. But I hope the Yankees beat the Mariners every time they play.

    I am a Yankee fan, not a Cano, at any cost fan.

  167. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Russell Munson says:
    December 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    Signing Ryan makes no sense if Drew is in play.

    They aren’t equals….Drew is a starter …Ryan is a back up …..Drew is basically ryan but can hit a little

  168. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Signing Ryan makes no sense if Drew is in play.

    Ryan is a bench player only. Defensive replacement type. Drew is a legitimate starting middle infielder. He’s really quite good…
    ————–

    I agree – though they gave Ryan a lot more money than I would have thought was reasonable. I mean, I’m no fan of Nix, but he could have given them 90% of the glove, a little more bat and come in at 1/4 the price.

    Though the two contracts that I think are even more nuts are McLouth’s deal with the Nats and Logan’s deal.

  169. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    If you don’t think Pujols was every bit as important to the Cardinals as Cano was to the Yankees then you have no friggin business talking about baseball.

    *********************************************************************

    this X 100 — JAP are you listening?

    Also how much longer are we gonna go back to the friggin’ trading deadline?? The Yanks were THREE GAMES out of the playoffs at the deadline. It would have been a disgrace to bail on the season at that stage. They were still within that range with two weeks to go.
    ————–

    I had forgotten how close the Yankees were at the deadline.

  170. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Patrick I don’t think you could just look at Cano and say he was going to get “$200mil” from anyone.

    AAV and Years are individually important. They offered him $25mil/year and he has only ever been worth that much money if you believe in FA WAR Dollars (1 WAR being worth approximately $5mil on the FA market, this is not 100% accurate for this year).

  171. Russell Munson December 13th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Don’t the Yankees already have a shortstop? Derek something?

    Unless they blow away any other offer, why would Drew agree to sign when he isn’t even guaranteed to be the starting shortstop?

  172. Wave Your Hat December 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    “The Yanks were THREE GAMES out of the playoffs at the deadline. It would have been a disgrace to bail on the season at that stage. ”

    They were beyond fortunate to be there. It wasn’t hard to see where the chips were going to fall.

  173. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    they probably thought trading him would damage their Always Winners brand.

    This statement right here depresses me. Because that’s what it is right now, just a brand. I’ve been thinking for the last few seasons that the “Always Winners”, “World Series or Bust” has become a marketing slogan and isn’t actually reality any longer. When George was in charge, this really was the attitude the Yankees had – win at all costs, the season is a bust if we don’t win a world series. But ever since 2009, they are talking the same way but not putting those words into action.

  174. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    They didn’t give ryan THAT much money…..

  175. 86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    gotta go clear my head…. I didn’t realize Cano was the greatest player in baseball history

    Have a day all

  176. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Russell Munson December 13th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    Don’t the Yankees already have a shortstop? Derek something?

    Unless they blow away any other offer, why would Drew agree to sign when he isn’t even guaranteed to be the starting shortstop?
    ———————-

    While it hasn’t been announced, my guess is that this will be Derek’s last year. If you sign Drew with the understanding that he’ll be at 2b or 3b this year and then likely Derek’s replacement in 2015 and beyond.

  177. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Patrick,

    They have become a PR only operation…

  178. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Russell Munson says:
    December 13, 2013 at 3:33 pm
    Don’t the Yankees already have a shortstop? Derek something?

    Yes but even Cashman has admitted he’s not sure if he can actually play there and they probably won’t know until march.

    If he can’t then you have to either play Ryan whonis a total zero with the bat or Nunez who can’t do anything.

    They need a 3B and they need a 2B too so signing drew would potentially fill 1 of those spots, provide a great plan B at SS if Derek can’t do it, and gives you your 2015 SS.

    It would be a very smart move if they could convince him to play kinda a rover type roll initially in 2014

  179. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    86w183 December 13th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    gotta go clear my head…. I didn’t realize Cano was the greatest player in baseball history
    ——————

    I thought Jesus Montero was the greatest player in baseball history?

  180. Chip December 13th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    they probably thought trading him would damage their Always Winners brand.

    This statement right here depresses me. Because that’s what it is right now, just a brand. I’ve been thinking for the last few seasons that the “Always Winners”, “World Series or Bust” has become a marketing slogan and isn’t actually reality any longer. When George was in charge, this really was the attitude the Yankees had – win at all costs, the season is a bust if we don’t win a world series. But ever since 2009, they are talking the same way but not putting those words into action.
    —————-

    This winter gives me hope that they’re trying to reverse course on that.

    I think last year was a wakeup call for Hal. He saw how much money the team loses when they’re not in the playoffs and it’s a lot more than they pay by being over the luxury tax.

  181. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Chip, St. Louis had/has a core in place. The Yankees do not.

  182. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Anybody that thinks the Yankees had a legit chance to win anything last year wasn’t paying attention…..that they won 85 games was a minor miracle

  183. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    Chip, St. Louis had/has a core in place. The Yankees do not.

    =======================

    Yup…. As I said a while back….The ole 80′s are back

  184. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    I said he plays a more important position, but go ahead and get your hubris out of your system, Chip.

    If you think they can replace what he does in the middle of the lineup or in the infield, you haven’t been paying attention for the last nine years, especially last season.

  185. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    The 80′s with one slight difference…They are cheap now too

  186. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    The wake up call was that no one was buying the product, so as per WSJ Hal was determined to go out and aggressively pursue name players (“stars”) to attract fans. They need to now finish the job and get younger. And they need to not rely on an antiquated model/FA’s going forward. You can’t assume Kershaw and HanRam for example will be available. Fingers crossed that we will get it.

    Catch you all later.

  187. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Hi luis, got to run. I’ll backread later. Play nice.

  188. AAA December 13th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    They did offer him a contract last year, during the season and again this fall.

    ================================

    Is there a source on this? Don’t recall ever seeing or hearing about it.

  189. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Play nice, *all. (I know luis always plays nice.)

  190. PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Cano is a fool.

    Sure, he gets the back 3 years at $24 million per year, and maybe, just maybe make the HOF. He gets his $240 million contract.

    However, I’m thinking of the last infield bust the M’s had–Adrian Beltre, anyone? Look how good he is on Texas after leaving that Northwest cesspool. Plus, Cano’s now playing for Lloyd McClendon–and the best you can say about Lloyd is that he and the M’s FO deserve each other.

    He could have taken the high road, and a likely $200 million x 8 contract from NYY. he would have been paid $10-15 million for years 9 and 10 by NY (look at Jeter), and made the rest up in 10 years of far better endorsement deals.

    However, maturity wasn’t ever Robby’s strong suit, and it sounds like he and Shaun Carter read the Yankees completely wrong on this one.

    As they say in the Bronx: “Cry me a river.”

  191. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    I will YF ;)

  192. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Cashman said they had been trying to sign cano since last spring and they were getting nowhere in the talks

  193. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    ID,

    You are looking at this the wrong way. You value Cano based on his performance but completely ignore the marketplace. According to fangraphs Cano has been worth $162.7 million over his career, he’s been paid what like $30 million? On the field performance is completely out of line with what players get paid. If Trout hits the market tomorrow how much do you think he’ll make? 30 million a year if we are being conservative? He will get between 500k and 1 million this year.

    Regardless of what Cano’s FA WAR dollars say, he was going to get $200 million or more based on the current market. If Seattle doesn’t give Cano 240 do you really think there’s not another team out there that would break 200?

    You mention AAV versus years but I don’t think that’s really valid in this case. The Yankees offered more AAV but 3 less years makes that completely meaningless. If Cano hits free agency again at 38 do you really think he makes $69 million from then until age 41? When we get to deals of this length it’s all about the total dollar amount and years.

  194. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    “If you think they can replace what he does in the middle of the lineup or in the infield, you haven’t been paying attention for the last nine years, especially last season.”

    Well they might as well just fold up the franchise and go home guys. Cano can NEVER be replaced. EVER.

  195. AAA December 13th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Cashman said they had been trying to sign cano since last spring and they were getting nowhere in the talks

    =============================

    Ah! Didn’t hear him this afternoon. They were probably a year too late on that anyway. The time to do it, as many of us have talked about is when the options on the previous contract were ready to kick in.

  196. Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Patrick – If there was no Seattle, there was no $200mil. They outbid literally no one.

  197. joeman December 13th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    jeter is going to play SS on this team and when he’s not playing SS he will DH or sit

  198. Patrick December 13th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Patrick – If there was no Seattle, there was no $200mil. They outbid literally no one.

    I think this is speculative and incorrect. The market was just getting warmed up. And there WAS a Seattle and as they say, it only takes one team.

    Did anyone think Ellsbury gets 153? And if he gets that you have to imagine some other team would give Cano 200.

  199. blake December 13th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    December 13, 2013 at 3:49 pm
    Patrick – If there was no Seattle, there was no $200mil. They outbid literally no one.

    Nah I think somebody else would have gone there too eventually. But it doesn’t matter….it just takes 1

  200. luis December 13th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Cano went to the FO two years ago to negotiate an extension…They said no, we don’t do extensions… It was the smart thing to do then ( a team friendly contract, more in line with Cano actual production and with less declining years on the back end ), and they refused…Again, I don’t blame the FO for not agreeing to that 10 year deal… I blame them for not extending him while they could, for not trading him if he wasn’t on the plans and for making an offer that was below his market value when it is put in to context with the market they were dealing with ( Ellsbury anyone?)

    Again, we lost him for nothing…What a great FO we have

  201. blake December 13th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    When this winter started I and most thought that both Choo and Ellsbury would get around 5/100……both are gonna get WAY more than that so it’s not just Cano…..the money is flying all over the place

  202. blake December 13th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Boone Logan just got 3/15!

  203. luis December 13th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    blake December 13th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
    Boone Logan just got 3/15!

    =========================

    Wow!! thanks but no thanks

  204. austinmac December 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Actually, I heard Logan got $16.5M. Wow. I like him more than most, but wow.

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