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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Important today; forgotten tomorrow

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 27, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil Hughes

Every time things get particularly slow in the winter, I tend to look back to make sure this is a normal phenomenon. I go to the far right side of the blog, scroll to the monthly archive, and click back toward the Ghosts of Offseasons Past. It’s no surprise that I usually find more of the same, just quiet days of more speculation than action.

But clicking back to my first winter on the beat, I found this post from 2009. It’s premise is simple: Asking whether Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain would be a better fit in the 2010 rotation.

It’s thoroughly irrelevant at this point — neither one is even in the organization any longer — but it’s interesting to look back at moments like this that seemed to have long-term consequences. Heading into that 2010 spring training, the choice of Hughes vs. Chamberlain to round out the rotation wasn’t simply a one-year decision, it seemed to be the kind of decision that might carry through an entire decade when one of the two might become irreplaceable in the rotation while the other secured a spot as a potential replacement for Mariano Rivera. These were high-end talents with long-term significance, and now they’re gone with no fanfare or sadness.

How many things this winter are going to feel the same way in four years?

Is all of this nail biting over Masahiro Tanaka going to look foolish? Is some solution going to arrive to make all of the infield uncertainty seem unnecessary? Is Dave Robertson or Derek Jeter or Michael Pineda going to make us wonder why we ever doubted them; or is Brian McCann or Jacoby Ellsbury or Carlos Beltran going to make us wonder why they ever got such a contract in the first place?

Every winter is full of quiet moments that spark endless debate and conversation. Time will tell which ones matter in the long run.

Associated Press photo

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300 Responses to “Important today; forgotten tomorrow”

  1. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 8:56 am
    drob had 3 in how many chances?
    ————————
    6

  2. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    come on back ARod…

  3. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Like A-Roid.

    Endless wasted words.

  4. blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    “I was saying yesterday, I think the Yankees are in a desperate enough situation where maybe it makes sense in any case for us to spend big on Tanaka. We need another starter or we’re not going anywhere, and a young starter is even more critical.”

    They do need a starter…..but there is a point IMO where if Tanaka is gonna cost twice as much as Garza then I’m not sure that makes sense. Kershaw is looking more and more like he could make it to free agency…..if you’re gonna reach and blow it out for somebody then he is the guy.

    Don’t get me wrong….I want tanaka….but there is a point where Id walk away ….if somebody wants to pull a mariners and offer 150 for him then I’m not goin there

  5. blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Go away forever Arod

  6. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    After the 2008 pitching debacle.

    I hope the Yankees learned an important lesson.

    Do not try to break in 2 inexperienced starters in the same rotation at the same time.

  7. 4TrainNorth December 27th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    If any team goes 20/yr on Tanaka, that team is nuts. No matter his numbers last year, the chance is way greater that he’s DiceK/Igawa by 2016 than holding steady at Kuroda/Darvish.

  8. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    When thrown into the fire as a closer Robertson has been badly burned.

    In his short career as a fill-in closer, Robertson has blown 10 saves and successfully saved only eight games. In the ninth inning, Robertson’s career ERA is a pedestrian 3.88. And when pitching in extra innings, when one mistake usually ends the game, Robertson has been even worse—pitching to a 4.63 ERA.

    Robertson’s 8-for-18 in career save chances equals a career save percentage of 44%.

  9. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    C & P….above

  10. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Blake-

    My 1st choice is Bailey.

    Since he does not appear to be a consideration I’d like to see us take a shot with Mr. T.

    But I agree about the risk/reward and relative values.

    After a while Tanaka’s price might become excessive for an unproven pitcher.

    In this type of competition I can see his price going quite high.

    That is why I’m content to let the Yankees figure it out.

    It’s not my money.

  11. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    If any team goes 20/yr on Tanaka
    —–
    which part of this year FA market isn’t nuts, Hughes cost 8 mil, Garza and Santana likely to command 15 mil per. I don’t think it’s ideal but it certainly isn’t in the nut category.

    I think he is going be Kuroda more than Darvish, which certainly makes a reasonable avv to intake. but none of us really know.

  12. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    Joeman-

    a very small sample.

  13. pkyankfan69 December 27th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Robertson’s 8-for-18 in career save chances equals a career save percentage of 44%.
    ——————————–
    This stat is so flawed and misleading… As a set up man Drob gets a blown save for giving up the lead in the 8th but as a set up man he rarely got save opps… Little hard to have a good save % when you usually only have the chance to blow a save not not actually get opportunities to save the game.

  14. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Billy Eppler has scouted Tanaka numerous times.

  15. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    Go away forever Arod
    —————————-
    they need a healthy ARod..no to a Young,Reynolds …free up KJ to rove

  16. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    I wanted Joe Nathan on a 1 or 2 yr. deal.

  17. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:20 am
    Joeman-

    a very small sample.
    —————————————-
    like a taste test..I tasted it and don’t care for it…..

  18. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:22 am
    I wanted Joe Nathan on a 1 or 2 yr. deal.
    ————————————–
    yep

  19. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    I really prefer to never see A-Roid in PS again.

  20. RadioKev December 27th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    “When thrown into the fire as a closer Robertson has been badly burned.”

    Who that has ever watched Robertson, could believe this?

  21. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Joeman-

    I would not mind some insurance in the Pen.

    But my eyes are on the prize.

    Like a laser beam.

    ;)

  22. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Houdini

  23. blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    Go away forever Arod
    —————————-
    they need a healthy ARod..no to a Young,Reynolds …free up KJ to rove”

    Healthy Arod is about as real as centaur Arod is

  24. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:25 am
    Joeman-

    I would not mind some insurance in the Pen.

    But my eyes are on the prize.

    Like a laser beam.
    ———————————–
    I’m trying

  25. RadioKev December 27th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    As Mike Axisa would put it, Robertson is a “True Yankee™.”

  26. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:26 am
    blake December 27th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    Go away forever Arod
    —————————-
    they need a healthy ARod..no to a Young,Reynolds …free up KJ to rove”

    Healthy Arod is about as real as centaur Arod is
    ——————————————————————-
    at this point I have to believe ARod is more healthy than Jeter

  27. 4TrainNorth December 27th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Everyone including DRob knows he throw too many pitches. Is this a lack of control or a case of being too fine? Can he come right at hitters like he’ll need to in the 9th? Is the stuff enough?

  28. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    hear talk not only here that the NYY want to bring a closer in, now why would they want to do that ? to pitch the 8th inning I think not

  29. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    SP is a primary issue.

    RP is a 2ndary issue.

  30. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Drob can definitely close, the question is whether he can be an elite close. a secondary question is with his small frame, how long can he maintain that fb velocity that sets up his nasty curve. unlike MO, he doesn’t have pinpoint command, any loss on their velo, you will see his effectiveness erode quickly imo.

  31. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    *on Drob’s velo.

  32. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Another dumkopf move.

    Not grabbing Aroldis when they had a chance.

  33. djsunyc December 27th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    i still think/thought hughes would be the heir apparent to mariano. too bad we never really pursued that avenue.

  34. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:30 am
    SP is a primary issue.

    RP is a 2ndary issue.
    ———————————-
    I’m trying

  35. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Joeman-

    Try harder.

  36. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    MTU…this Tanaka situation is going to be so drawn out I feel the need to patrol

  37. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I think we have at least 2 guys in house who would make excellent closers now or in the future.

    It’s a secret and would be highly controversial.

    :)

  38. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    MTU, unless you hit the jackpot on a xander or profar, the only way yanks is going get ultra talent on a bargain price is gambling on unrestricted international FA which comes with it’s share of risks. Yanks need to take those gambles when you take everything into considerations.

  39. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Kawasaki has resigned with Toronto and should be conversing avec Frank Tanana about now, relating how great it would be starting a Tom Seaver Blue Jays career…..let the good times roll.

    I hope everybody had a great Christmas, I’m safely back home recovering, with a to Boots Day off this Friday. :)

  40. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Cash-

    Not taking the risks on guys like Chapman, Puig, darvish, etc. has really cost them.

    Not sure Tanaka is still another but he might be.

    That’s up to them.

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    I don’t agree that there’s no sadness in Chamberlain/Hughes departures.

    The sadness ilies in more wasted potential. Is there a team in baseball that mines less from its own talent? Thank goodness Hughes played a key role in 2009 at least.

  42. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    How did we miss on Iwakuma ?

    A huge bargain.

    The M’s just snagged him for a song and a dance.

    You mean to tell me their scouting department is better than ours ?

    If so, we are in a world of hurt.

  43. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    JAP-

    Fortunately, we still have a chance to get it right going forward.

  44. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    or even with a guy like Guerrero that dodger signed for 28 mils, it’s matter where you allocate resources on a limited talent pool that is now available to team who has money to burn.

  45. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Now, now, MTU, don’t lose your positivist edge :D ( even if its only a matter of fooling yourself ).

  46. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Well, I have idea
    Who “ARoXd” is, but I would welcome a healthy Alex back, and I’ll bet his teammates
    Would as
    Well.

  47. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Banuelos and J-Ram are poised to make the jump to the next level if they can stay healthy.

    Both have top-of-the-rotation potential.

    Lights. Camera. Action.

    Take 3.

    ;)

  48. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Alfred, with my Willie Randolph and Paul Blair cards, you sure are going to be strong up the middle. Anything else?

  49. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    I remember when Terry Crowley had to pitch for the Orioles in a 24-10 blow out Toronto win in ’78….it was a week-night game.

  50. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    what’s a Ottawa

  51. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    BJ Birdy

  52. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Mills,’I’ll also take some read-aloud-to Plath over some fresh mint tea while taking in a
    View of the garden, after some salmon and a bean salad, of course :)

  53. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttrw_WtgK0

    EX Yankee great.

  54. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    A Ottawa, who cares? Joe, think Orr’s Oshawa.

  55. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Doug Ault

  56. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Alfred, thank Goddess you didn’t ask me for my rookie Guidry.

  57. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Doug Ault R.I.P. – thanks for those two snowy opening day blasts.

  58. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    The Black Hoof

  59. austinmac December 27th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    None of us truly knows how Robertson will do as the closer, but we know far less about the equally important eighth inning. the team must add someone to pitchlate in games that is reliable. We have no idea what we will get from Kelley.

    A $17M/yr. contract with Tanaka on a six or seven year deal is tantamount to $20m/yr. That is about where my limits are. Garza, as Blake points out, would be about half. His ceiling is likely far less, but the certainty of knowing what you have is probably greater.

    The question we don’t know is how signing or not signing Tanaka will impact other moves. Tanaka and then no Balfour type or decent 3B? Or does it not prevent such moves?

  60. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    We wound up missing out on Mike Trout by one ordinal position.

    And it was Mark Texeira who cost us that opportunity.

    If only we knew in advance.

    :(

  61. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Real Sports Bar & Grill

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Jmills, Guidry (affectionately referred
    To as
    “God” in my household of yore) I will surreptitiously relieve you of while Mrs.’Kravtiz runs interference ;)

  63. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Mac-

    I think a lot of it depends on how the Yankees have evaluated Tanaka.

  64. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    I’m just going to take the 401

  65. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    right into Detroit

  66. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    I remember when Giambi said that Matsui was “the real deal” after seeing him in Japan.

    He sure was.

    What are Yankee people saying about Mr. T ?

    ;)

  67. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    The 401, North America’s busiest HWY. Holy cow, even Barfield made an error in that Hawkins game.

  68. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    right now who’s the better player..ARod or Jeter & both healthy who’s the better player

  69. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    I got taking to a kid going to the outdoor classic. Over $200 for a ticket. ……I’m not going.

  70. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    ” Got talking “

  71. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:12 am
    I got taking to a kid going to the outdoor classic. Over $200 for a ticket. ……I’m not going.
    ————————————-
    I know someone that is going

  72. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    If healthy, who’s the most incomparable hockey player of all time?

  73. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:15 am
    If healthy, who’s the most incomparable hockey player of all time?
    ——————————————————-
    let me think about

  74. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    I would guarantee Tanaka a base of $15 Mill+ incentives for every season. The guy has proven Nothing at the MLB Level. And I certainly would Not rely on Yankee scouts opinions to guide my bidding. Their track record speaks for itself. I would call former MLB’ers that played in Japan and batted against Tanaka. Get their general opinion of Tanaka, and ask them based on their AB’s vs Tanaka, who does Tanaka remind them of that Chucked over here? Very easy thing to do.

  75. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Joe, in the words of Naomi Watts, “Leafs suck” right now, so it could be one big disappointment.

  76. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    DB-

    “And I certainly would Not rely on Yankee scouts opinions to guide my bidding. ”

    Can’t say I blame you.

    ;)

  77. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    The Ever Elusive, Always Inscrutable And Still Incomparable Bobby Orr

  78. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    SEA of BLUE

  79. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Maple Leafs Winter Classic Reebok Men’s Coaches Jacket

  80. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    “Sea of Love”

    Good flick.

    :)

  81. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Today is a hike day.

    I’d like Tanaka to be ours when I return.

    :)

  82. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    never going into Costco again after seeing The Watch

  83. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    http://r10—sn-tt17rn7d.c.....&mv=u

    Naomi Watts says Leafs suck :(

  84. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    MTU is high in the hope department.

  85. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Very sorry to hear of the passing of Paul Blair. I enjoyed watching him play, and he seemed to truly enjoy playing. He always had a smile on his face while cruising around in the OF. He seemed to really Love The Game. This is missing from Many of today’s players.

  86. jmills December 27th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Make that 2 votes for #4.

  87. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    “Sea of Love is OK, but I’ll take “Insomnia”.

  88. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Marc Normandin ?@Marc_Normandin 4m
    Masahiro Tanaka rumors: Japanese ace wants $17 million annually minimum http://sbn.to/1kMdkSQ

    Only? This one is easy Cashman, sign him up for 6 years 17 million, 102 million total

  89. pkyankfan69 December 27th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Only? This one is easy Cashman, sign him up for 6 years 17 million, 102 million total
    —————–
    Sign me up for this plan also… That would be awesome but I doubt it.

  90. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Sign me up for this plan also… That would be awesome but I doubt it.

    I’d also be good with a bit more money. Tanaka is a must for the Yankees

  91. Kelvin December 27th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    I keep thinking to myself, $19M annually over 7 will get it done.. I just feel some crazy team will bid over that, potentially $21M per. I feel he would choose the Yanks, unless the money is crazy.

    According to all reports, Yankees have been scouting him the longest. Two years at the least. Nearly every one of his games. Lesser Scouts, then Eppler and followed by Cash.

  92. pkyankfan69 December 27th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    I know he hasn’t pitched in the big leagues yet but based on how crazy this market has been, the amount of teams interested, and the lack of top pitching available I think for sure someone will give him at least 6 years – $120M with the $20M posting fee on top. If Tanaka said he would sign with the Yanks tomorrow for 6 years – $102M he would definitely be a Yankee tomorrow.

  93. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    It probably means that the bidding will start at $17m. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a little bit more than $20m a year. That is kind of crazy considering he has never thrown a pitch in the majors.

  94. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Don’t get me started on pitcher development. Having Hughes throw a cutter for so long and in lieu of his curveball was a big mistake. Further, as a witness, I can say that Yanks never had Hughes throw the changeup enough in the minors. Never. Even when Hughes went back to AAA specifically to work on that pitch, for some reason, he rarely threw it. Not sure what the new PC’s pitching philosophy is (throw more changeups in the developmental phase, no doubt), but I do know they had Marshall throwing that stupid cutter in 2013 when his slider wasn’t working instead of having him continue to work on his breaking pitch. I sometimes wonder about the Yanks propensity to suspend a breaking pitch (short attention span) to get that dumb cutter into a young pitcher’s repertoire.

    As for Joba and Hughes, I am actually excited to see how they do elsewhere. I watched them grow up, and saw them produce during some great moments at Yankee Stadium. Beyond the great relief appearances, I loved watching Joba start and will never forget Hughes picking up Clemens in Game 3 of the 2007 ALDS, among other appearances. As for our future pitching prospects, do no harm. At least Manny and JRam already have plus or better changeups. And I am expecting a big year from Nova.

    As for Tanaka, hopefully, we will be all in on him. As it should be. Our lack of a bid that gave us a fighting chance on Darvish has to be one of the poorest evaluations of a player and planning jobs for the SP in recent memory, bordering on moronic. While Tanaka isn’t Darvish, I’m relieved that we no longer are conflating all Japanese pitchers with Igawa. A minor signing for a major pay as a knee-jerk PR move to save some face. Just go get Tanaka. And that it has come to this, our so desperately needing Tanaka, says it all about where we are now and how we got here. Free Agency, while you still can…. so spend money (before FA becomes even more of a dinosaur) because it is what we still do best.

  95. blake December 27th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    “Only? This one is easy Cashman, sign him up for 6 years 17 million, 102 million total”

    Id have no problem going there….Id even probbaly go 7 years at 17 per as he’d only be 32 at the end of that deal……basically you’d be getting his entire prime age wise.

    That said if somebody goes nuts and decided to go to 150 or more for him then I’m not going there…..Id rather just sign Garza for half that and save that money up in case Kershaw hits free agency.

    Either way…..Hal and the Yankees have to make sure they are going to be able to chase Kershaw if he hits the market…..you forget any budgets you’re on for him

  96. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    If the Mariners are involved this could get out of hand very quickly. It was obvious by the Cano contract that they are extremely desperate and they know they really have to over pay to get players to come there. They could go to $150m and blow this out of the water.

  97. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Getting outbid by the Mariners twice; that would be rich.

  98. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I really doubt that Kershaw will reach free agency. But Scherzer, Shields and Bailey will most likely be free agents. I think even if the yanks got Tanaka they would still be in the market to sign one of those big pitchers next year.

  99. blake December 27th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    I’m not buying the mariners ponying up another insane offer in the same offseason

  100. blake December 27th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    7/119 would be a good number….Id love to get him cheaper than that but that’s probably unrealistic at this point given the number of big players involved. 7 years is a long time for someone who has never pitched here…..but if he’s good that contract will be a bargain….he will only be 32 in the 7th year and who knows what pitcher contracts will look like 7 years from now.

    Matt Hollidays deal looked big when it was signed……now it’s nothing

  101. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    I’m not buying the mariners ponying up another insane offer in the same offseason
    ————

    They would be really stupid if they do. They need 2 or 3 more bats to add to Cano otherwise what was the point of going crazy to sign him. Teams will be involved to raise the price but I think it will come down to the Yanks and Cubs in the end.

  102. blake December 27th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    “I really doubt that Kershaw will reach free agency. But Scherzer, Shields and Bailey will most likely be free agents. I think even if the yanks got Tanaka they would still be in the market to sign one of those big pitchers next year.”

    If he doesn’t get signed by opening day then I think he’s going to the open market…..he’d be so close that the Dodgers would really have to make a huge offer to away him id think…..of course they could…..but for them if you have to pay free agency money on an extension then you might as well wait a few months and make sure he’s healthy. I thought they’d get an extension done this winter…..the longer this goes without one the greater the chance it doesn’t happen I think.

  103. Kelvin December 27th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Funny thing, I can see Kershaw in pinstripes. He just seems like a reserved guy, quiet, but a leader in the clubhouse. Of course, he can also pitch lights out. ;)

  104. austinmac December 27th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    I keep hearing that Kershaw is “intrigued’ by free agency. True or posturing, who knows? In my view, the Dodgers will be all over Tanaka if they don’t think they can sign Kershaw.

  105. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    I don’t think there is any way Kershaw hits free agency but I’d be really happy if he did.

  106. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    If Kershaw is a free agent he will get a crazy contract. Like 10 years $260m-$280m. I could see the Yanks and Dodgers fighting it out for him.

  107. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Whether Kershaw is intrigued or not, we should still go after Tanaka hard. We can rely on the whim of a player in FA. Remember Cliff Lee. Yanks need to stop being so reliant on FA.

  108. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    We *can’t* rely on (should read)

  109. Chambliss December 27th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    $100 million for a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the major leagues sounds like a major gamble to me, but I suppose the Yankees don’t have much choice right now.

    As for Joba and Hughes, I am very disappointed with how the Yankees blew it when developing both pitchers. Someone posted that Hughes could have been Mo’s successor. This is perhaps true, but what about Joba? With his violent delivery perhaps elbow surgery was inevitable, but I wonder what we might be saying today about Joba if the Yankees had kept him in a bullpen role. I have fond memories of his early years with the 101 fastball and 90+ slider. He was simply unhittable out of the pen during those years.

  110. blake December 27th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Captain Clutch says:
    December 27, 2013 at 11:18 am
    If Kershaw is a free agent he will get a crazy contract. Like 10 years $260m-$280m. I could see the Yanks and Dodgers fighting it out for him.

    Or 8/240 and then get another big contract when he’s a FA again in his early 30s

  111. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    I believe the Dodgers are “topping” out. Their attempt at unloading Kemp is a “tell”. I worry most about Boston in regard to Tanaka. Yanks burned the sh*t out of them with the Ellsbury signing. Boston will Not stand back and let Tanaka go to NY Now, without an all-out bidding war. Buckle up.

  112. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    joba should be a starter!

    (in japan or maybe korea)

  113. blake December 27th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    If I was Kershaw Id go for an 8×30 deal. That would make him a FA again at like 34 and he could realistic get another huge deal……a 10 year deal would take him to 36 and it’s less likely a club would shell out big for that age. That’s way down the road but 240 million sets anybody for life and it keeps another big deal in play later in his career

  114. Captain Clutch December 27th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Isn’t Boston at $189m right now? If so they are definitely done spending money. There is a zero percent chance that they will go over.

  115. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    i can’t see the dodgers going in whole hog after tanaka with kershaw and hanley still unsettled.

    if they could have moved kemp or crawford, i think they’d be all in.

  116. MTU December 27th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    You guys worry too much.

    You’ll wind w gray hair like me.

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    This isn’t the Yankees 1st rodeo.

    They are good at this sort of stuff.

    Catch you later.

    :)

  117. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    mo had an out pitch. hughes has no out pitch. he would never have been able to close.

  118. Howler December 27th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Hughes had an out pitch…the Hit it Out Pitch…

  119. Mordot11 December 27th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    $100 million for a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the major leagues sounds like a major gamble to me, but I suppose the Yankees don’t have much choice right now.
    —————————————————-
    This is the Yankees’ advantage though. They can take this gamble and if it doesn’t work out absorb the monetary hit. Well, at least that’s how things worked under George.

  120. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Get ???!

  121. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    the japanese characters posted as ???!

    the name i tried to post in japanese characters translates to ma-kun which is tanaka’s nickname.

  122. 86w183 December 27th, 2013 at 11:50 am

    In 50 games out of the bullpen Hughes has a 2.06 ERA with 70 K in 56 2/3 innings.

    He could definitely have been a closer…. he got strikeouts with his high fastball AND curve.

    I thought it was his best long term role due to his inability/unwillingness to develop a reliable change up.

  123. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Get ?? ??

  124. bbb51 December 27th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 11:23 am
    I believe the Dodgers are “topping” out. Their attempt at unloading Kemp is a “tell”. I worry most about Boston in regard to Tanaka. Yanks burned the sh*t out of them with the Ellsbury signing. Boston will Not stand back and let Tanaka go to NY Now, without an all-out bidding war. Buckle up.

    They have six starting pitchers and are up against 189, and they very much don’t want to go over. They would only get him if they could unload a couple higher salaried pitchers to make room. It’s unlikely.

  125. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    hey listen i liked phil and i liked that he did his stint in the bp well.

    but he would have stunk as a closer.

    he can’t put people away. it would have been horrific trying him as a closer imo.

    fortunately we never had to go there.

  126. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Obviously, we will see. I just think you guys are looking at that $189 through Hal’s eyes. The Yanks burned the R\Sox by overpaying for Ellsbury. On top of that, the R\Sox are the Defending Champs. Going over the $189 is No Big Deal to Boston in 2014.

  127. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    did the orioles just take this winter off? they tied for 3rd last year, so they swap closers and that’s it, they’re done? i know they have a pretty good lineup, but they seem to be expecting everyone else to come back to them or something.

    very strange.

  128. 86w183 December 27th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    He put people away in the 8th inning, but couldn’t do it in the 9th? Why is that?

    Can’t compare his strikeout rates as a starter, when he’s pacing himself as opposed to a reliever when he’s letting it fly.

    You can’t succeed as a starter unless you have a third (or even fourth) pitch unless you have two overwhelming ones (Randy Johnson). But Hughes’ two pitch arsenal played better out of the pen.

  129. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    no, he put people away in the 8th inning 4 seasons ago and his last 2 years he couldnt put anyone away and he stunk.

    maybe if they needed a closer in 2010 he would have been ok, although i doubt it.

    but that was a long time ago.

  130. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    id be curious to know how hughes fared with 2 strikes on a batter vs. other pitchers in the league.

    it seemed like he got 2 strikes in batters and then had to throw pitch after pitch after pitch.

    and even if it wasnt the batter he couldnt put away who took him deep it was the next guy.

    thats just my impression of hughes this year w/o looking at the stats.

  131. austinmac December 27th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    86,

    I agree with you on Hughes. He looked very good in the pen with his limited arsenal.

    Joba had the pitches, but I think he lacked(s) the emotional stability or fitness to start.

  132. 86w183 December 27th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Ys Guy —-

    I agree with your assessment of Hughes as a starter. I just don’t see failures as a starter guaranteeing failures as a reliever.

    The bullpen is where hard throwing failed starters go to find new life. I said all along I thought Joba had more potential as a starter… still feel the same way, though I doubt Joba has the work ethic to excel.

    Doesn’t matter now, touhhg does it?

    Gotta run… back later… have a day

  133. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    so i read that tanaka’s nickname in japan is ma-kun which according to google translate is “Mr. Marr”

    idk if tanaka will even come over before he’s signed but i do hope the yankees have studied up on the little niceties and customs that would be expected from a japanese player.

    some have said they should have hired matsui as an ambassador, i think it might have been a good idea.

  134. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    take care 86, good to see you as always and happy new year!

  135. blake December 27th, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    “id be curious to know how hughes fared with 2 strikes on a batter vs. other pitchers in the league.”

    Hughes got ahead of hitters ok….he’d get 2 strikes and then foul, ball, foul, foul , ball, foul, ball and then when it was a full count hitters OpS 1.030 against him.

  136. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Hughes let batters hit .253 .313 .399 .712 with 2 strikes, which was 76% worse than league average.

    Batters hit .186 .222 .305 .527 on 0-2 which was 80% worse
    .263 .257 .323 .581 1-2 82% worse
    .262 .260 .485 .745 2-2 112% worse
    .298 .541 .489 1.030 3-2 only 59% worse!

  137. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Blake I really have to disagree. The Yankees main resource is money. Matt Garza is more likely to be AJ Burnett than someone who helps the rotation next year in NYS. I don’t think its worth to sign Garza even if he is half as cheap.

    I mean, we could have signed Phil Hughes for 24 million, but going cheap ain’t worth.

    Someone asked about the Orioles. Peter Angelos is cheap as hell so they will never be able to compete outside of fluke seasons. They’ve already said they wont be in on Tanaka because ‘the posting fee is too expensive’. An MLB team in an 8 billion revenue world just said 20 million was too expensive. They could have lied and said the contract requirement or he is too risky but they told the truth and said ‘my owner doesnt want to pay a drop in the bucket to sign a 25 year old potential frontline guy’.

    And the Orioles are one of the teams that could most benefit from his signing since they are on the bubble of playoff teams.

  138. blake December 27th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    I don’t have the numbers in front of me but often Hughes see to jump out ahead and then hitters just fouled off stuff until he got 2-2 or 3-2 and then they jus killed him…..

  139. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    The Yankees should not be wasting time signing pitchers going into their 30s that already have a bunch of red flags. If its a Cliff Lee/CC type, sure, but like why bother with a guy that you’re likely only to get 1 goodish season out of?

  140. blake December 27th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    JF,
    Garza has never posted an era not under 4…..he’d be a good mid rotation guy.

    I want tanaka but I just think there is a point where you have to walk away…….this budget stuff isn’t gonna go away even if they don’t get under this year so they can just spend wildly.

    Id be comfortable with 7/119 or maybe a tick more for him…..beyond that though I’m not sure

  141. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    He has missed 10+ starts each of the past 2 seasons and has a huge HR rate. He’s going to be in his age 30 season at the start of the contract which will probably be 5+ years anyways.

    I don’t think he is going to end up signing for 10 AAV, so while the total outlay could be around 50-75% of Tanaka, you’re not saving 50% in season and in the end thats really the only number that matters.

  142. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Garza at his best is a 3-4 starter, has injury issues and hasn’t thrown 200 innings since 2010. If the choice is overpaying for Tanaka or settling for Garza I say overpay on Tanaka. Garza would upgrade Phelps by like 1-2 wins and will cost probably $15-17 million per year. Really not worth it IMO

  143. luis December 27th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    “why bother with a guy that you’re likely only to get 1 goodish season out of?”

    =======================

    Because he is over 30 and that brings a little more certainty, not to mention is right on the age bracket the Yankees like? ;)

    I rather take my chances with Phelps than pay Garza a bunch millions

  144. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Basically I view the Yankees signing Garza or Santana as another AJ Burnett level signing. Or Pavano/Jaret Wright. Which is like you probably shouldnt do it, but if its just an additional move on top of another nice move (like getting Tanaka + Garza) then I guess its ok but I still don’t like it.

  145. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    wow, i dont need to see how the other pitchers in the league did, 1.03 ops is all you need to see to know he couldn’t put people away.

  146. Shame Spencer December 27th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    If Kershaw goes to FA, I still think LA would end up with him because I’d imagine they’d be willing to match any other team.

    Tanaka is a must. I really could care less if he gets $110 or $150 from us and I’m not sure why anyone else should either. This whole off season is a result of the systemic issues the org has ignored. Money is all they have to work with. Work it like a shake weight, Hal!

  147. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    We need Tanaka more than the Orioles do. I wish we had the upside/close-to-major-league-ready pitching prospects that the Orioles have. Bundy (TJS, but back midyear perhaps), Gausman, and maybe even the lefty Rodriguez in the mix at some point. O’s are doing a good job drafting pitchers.

    As for Garza, would have loved him a few years ago, but not that interested about now…

  148. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Money is still pretty much the one strength the Yankees have if they choose to use it. God knows all other avenues have failed either based on misevaluation or a flawed philosophy. Would that the Yankees could be young and cost controlled, but I am not holding my breath.

  149. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    you can’t be sure how kershaw feels about LA and the dodgers.
    few people thought cano was upset with the yankees until just before he signed and his dad started making noise that cano felt unrespected.

    so its possible he’d stick with LA if they ‘match’ other offers, but its possible that the opposite is true and that the dodgers would have to outbid other teams.

    i guess we wont know till much later, if we ever know…

  150. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    the yankees have to pay up to overcome the woeful player development situation. it would appear that this is their biggest opportunity to make up with dollars what they have failed to do with prospects.

    unless someone just goes crazy high, the yankees should not be outbid for tanaka.

  151. Bronxball December 27th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Tanaka or Balfour,garza, drew..? Kei igawa had great japan numbers. tanaka has great risk..i’m not comparing them but kei should have been alot better.. just didn’t tranlate

  152. Shame Spencer December 27th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    so its possible he’d stick with LA if they ‘match’ other offers, but its possible that the opposite is true and that the dodgers would have to outbid other teams.

    ————-

    Them having to outbid other teams isn’t really the opposite of matching. Basically I don’t see Kershaw leaving the Dodgers for money.. if he leaves it won’t be because they were trying to low-ball him. I’m pretty sure those negotiations will be night and day difference from the Cano negotiations.

  153. luis December 27th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    Money is still pretty much the one strength the Yankees have if they choose to use it. God knows all other avenues have failed either based on misevaluation or a flawed philosophy. Would that the Yankees could be young and cost controlled, but I am not holding my breath.

    ================================

    Hello YF!,

    They are not a “Small Market Team” or so they say… Why bother to develop while we can buy all the players after they are 30? ;)

    Seriously though.. The current FO just doesn´t have the skills to build a team from scratch and ownership doesn´t have the fortitude to stay the course with such a demanding and instant gratification fanbase.. Rebuilding means growing pains and sucking for a while

  154. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Ys Guy, same was true with Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, and here we are. Misevaluation of your talent and of the talent out there will do that. Also lack of fans in the seats/and playoff moolah. Better do all they can to sign Tanaka or the fans won’t be shelling out the bucks to go to NYS.

    As for Hughes, I am very interested in seeing how he fares in the anti-NYS. He will obviously be able to pitch a little differently; won’t be fearing mere contact = a HR at Target.

  155. Shame Spencer December 27th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Unless of course the Dodgers sign Tanaka for crazy money and let he and Kershaw double team the league for a year before deciding if Kershaw is worth the $200+ million he’ll get.

    Honestly, if I’m the Dodgers I go hard for Tanaka without it having anything to do with Kershaw. Magic has those prepaid debit cards now… money is rolling in…

  156. luis December 27th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
    Ys Guy, same was true with Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, and here we are. Misevaluation of your talent and of the talent out there will do that. Also lack of fans in the seats/and playoff moolah. Better do all they can to sign Tanaka or the fans won’t be shelling out the bucks to go to NYS.

    As for Hughes, I am very interested in seeing how he fares in the anti-NYS. He will obviously be able to pitch a little differently; won’t be fearing mere contact = a HR at Target.

    =================================

    Hughes needs a couple of new offerings, but I think the Twins will give him time to develop them

  157. Cashmoney December 27th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    no to Garza at perceived dollars and years. I don’t think Garza can tame a good offense in AL.

  158. luis December 27th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Got to go, have a good rest of the day

  159. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Hi Luis!!! Feliz Ano Nuevo!

    “The current FO just doesn´t have the skills to build a team from scratch and ownership doesn´t have the fortitude to stay the course with such a demanding and instant gratification fanbase.”

    And I will argue that the Yankees conception of “win now” has been part of the cause of their not winning. Young players are not in diametric opposition to winning now. Dumpster divers are much more risky as they usually 1.) ultimately trend downward as the season progresses, 2.) get hurt, 3.) are players management always stays with too long just because they are vets. Youth can and does win. It won in the bullpen and on the field in 2009. “Win now” is the conservative approach, and not interacting youth. “Win now” when you don’t win results in no core team, so it can often be a lose-lose.

  160. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    they need a healthy ARod.

    ============

    He hasn’t been nor will he be healthy, without his ‘supplements’

    It will be a very HAPPY NEW YEAR when he and his circus act are no longer taking up a roster spot

  161. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    “Win now” is the conservative approach and not *integrating* (should read) youth (fallacy, I think).

  162. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    yes they should have gotten in on darvish and cespedes, although yoenis was less than stellar last season. (sub .700 ops the 2nd half last year) if you really wanted cespedes he was very available this offseason. and of course everybody should have been in on puig.

    but there’s no going back. this time they need to win the bidding and not worry about the LT.

  163. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    We don’t know how healthy or not Alex will be. But he did give us a solid month of very good baseball without having trained at all. So, we just don’t know. But I would think as a supporting player he would do well, and much better than the Youks and flukes of the Yankee world of the past few years.

  164. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Ys Guy, there is no going back, but if they don’t learn from their mistakes, shame on them.

  165. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    How about sign Tanaka at 6 @ $120

    Then next year sign Kershaw (assuming he hits the market) 8 @ $200

    Of course $189 will be long gone …………

  166. Shame Spencer December 27th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    To think.. instead of dealing with Tanaka we could just be focused on not extending Darvish right now. Ahh, sliding doors..

  167. Shame Spencer December 27th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    How about sign Tanaka at 6 @ $120

    Then next year sign Kershaw (assuming he hits the market) 8 @ $200

    —————–

    Approved.

  168. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    a NYY lineup with a healthy ARod in it is better than any other FA pickup they get to play 3rd and that’s including KJ…..

  169. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    and right now ARod is healthier than jeter

  170. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    i think people who expect alot out of arod are going to be very dissappointed. he just can’t stay healthy.

    he was only able to keep it together for about a month last year, then went back to ‘broken down arod’.

    i could see him as a bench bat and p/t player with success, but its hard to believe he’s put up with that without causing problems or maybe claiming injury and going after insurance companies to cover his salary.

    arod the player is pretty much done as far as i can see.

    but ‘arod the contract’ will live on for years and year and court case after court case.

  171. luis December 27th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    Hi Luis!!! Feliz Ano Nuevo!

    “The current FO just doesn´t have the skills to build a team from scratch and ownership doesn´t have the fortitude to stay the course with such a demanding and instant gratification fanbase.”

    And I will argue that the Yankees conception of “win now” has been part of the cause of their not winning. Young players are not in diametric opposition to winning now. Dumpster divers are much more risky as they usually 1.) ultimately trend downward as the season progresses, 2.) get hurt, 3.) are players management always stays with too long just because they are vets. Youth can and does win. It won in the bullpen and on the field in 2009. “Win now” is the conservative approach, and not interacting youth. “Win now” when you don’t win results in no core team, so it can often be a lose-lose.

    ============================

    In deed… A homegrown core gives you sustained success and flexibility… There is no coincidence that we enjoyed such a long period of dominance after a few down years, which in turn enabled the development of the core four… They had many, many opportunities to make a gradual transition but they didn´t take advantage of them…Now they had two choices a full fledged rebuilding process or opening the wallet… They chose the second, but I think in the end it is fool´s gold…They can´t have sustained success with the FA model alone.

    Later ;)

  172. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    well a yankee lineup with a healthy ruth in it is better than one with a healthy arod in it, but neither is going to happen.

  173. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I did bang the ARod drum hard today sorry….

  174. bbb51 December 27th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I wouldn’t mind at all if Arod did not get suspended, then hit .280 with 25-30 HR at 3B, which he could still do.

    He’s getting at least 50 though, and probably over 100.

  175. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    “A homegrown core gives you sustained success”
    =================================
    or it gives you a century with no championships.

    ask the mariner’s how well developing a ‘young core’ is going.

  176. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    well a yankee lineup with a healthy ruth in it is better than one with a healthy arod in it, but neither is going to happen.
    ——————————
    any of your Prediction ever come true ?

  177. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    ARod will get 65 games at most …that’s a Prediction

  178. bbb51 December 27th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    The Yankees should not have to be a team that goes through rebuilding phases. They should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

  179. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    with a healthy ARod …………

    =======

    Sorry Joeman ……… I have had my FILL of him, I want him gone preferably forever. Even if he MAY be able to help the team. We are moving on without Cano and we can move on without ARoid too

  180. 4TrainNorth December 27th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    ARod is worth something only if he can turn into 2004 Reuben Sierra.

  181. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    yes joeman, my prediction that re-signing arod would be a disaster turned out to be spot on.

    and my prediction that ‘the trade’ would be a wash has turned out to be true.

  182. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    ‘arod the player is pretty much done as far as i can see.

    but ‘arod the contract’ will live on for years and year’ ……….

    ===============

    In my NEW YEAR he gets suspended for 2014 then Hal steps up to the plate again and negotiates a buyout of the remaining portion of the dollars owed on his contract. That way he will no longer be part of the team while being a distraction at the same time. Most likely gonna have to pay him anyway so just do it and be done.

  183. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    and i was against trading hughes and/or joba for johan even though i always loved johan. that could be looked at either way since neither hughes nor joba turned out to be much but johan was injured for a significant portion of his extention.

    so on the 3 biggest blog arguments of the 5 or so years ive been around i’ve gone 2-0-1.

    not bad.

    but i was always in favor of nunez getting ‘a chance’ which hasnt worked out….

  184. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Well, Alex blew away our below replacement level 3B production, last year. So, until they can get to or above replacement I’d rather have Alex. As for the contract, Yanks are at fault there, but had NO ABILITY to develop or compensate financially by actually trading for youth, cost controlled players. They are only aware of the new CBA it seems in terms of luxury tax but forgot about the dearth of position players on the FA market. So, they need to improve there in terms of getting back picks, signing IFA’s (oops, they failed there in terms of mlb-readiness), or/and dealing contracts to get back hauls, a la the Rays et al. So, get with the program unless you want to be dependent upon the whims of FA’s who you WILL have to shell out for.

    luis, a homegrown core with a judicious FA/IFA signings is ideal. But Yanks chose to not spend and could not develop/traded that development for “win now.” That translated to a hot mess and one championship. Let’s hope we do a better job going forward. But being stingy and unable to develop at the same time, wasn’t exactly working. Take two.

    Later, luis. ;)

  185. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    damn, i guess its been over 6 years since i showed up here a couple months before arod’s opt out in 2007!

  186. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    on a % basis arod may have been above replacement level but he was only healthy for less than 2 months. he was a zero the other 4 months and pretty worthless the last 2 -3 weeks.

  187. yankinvegas December 27th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    The union will never allow a buyout of ARod, or anyone else’s, contract. He will get EVERY penny that he is owed.

  188. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    if arod retires as part of the buyout package, the union may have no say in it.

  189. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Ys Guy, so was most of the lineup. Yanks knew Alex was out due to the surgery and chose to spend 12 million on Youk. Their bad.

  190. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    yes but my original point was just that ‘a healthy arod’ is just not gonna happen and it didnt really happen last year. its even less likely to happen this year.

    a healthy youkilis would have helped last year, too but we know how that turned out.

  191. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    As someone who argued that Alex wasn’t going to be able to carry the club/be that stud in the middle of the lineup from 2010 on, I understand that. I had hoped we would address such issues three years ago, but we did not. Still Alex if he plays is still better than what we have attempted to roll out there. And he may surprise us/can always DH.

    But the unhappy fact is Youk at 12mil was a bad idea from day one, and I said so. And a healthy Youk is a contradiction in terms.

    Heading out to lunch. Enjoy your day, and Happy New Year!

  192. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    and pretty worthless the last 2 -3 weeks.

    His last 8 games he hit: .069 .182 .172 .354
    But the previous games in september he hit: .289 .429 .533 .962

    So actually I think you’re a bit off the mark, ys guy. He had a bad week. he had a great prior 3 weeks.

  193. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    yankinvegas December 27th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Then I would cut him and pay him off (NYY can afford it). Be done with it

    Thanking hi may be productive and stay healthy is wishful thinking imo.

  194. Yankee Dog December 27th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    s/b ……… Thinking he may be productive

  195. blake December 27th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    I think they should wait for the Arod suspension to come down and then try like heck to trade him to somebody during the span he’s out….if they can’t find a taker by the end of his suspension then I would release him outright…….the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze anymore. Pun intended

  196. blake December 27th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Alex lasted like a month before he broke down again…..a healthy Arod is a hypothetical…..he’s more like a pain in the butt distraction that’s always too hurt to count on at this point.

    I’m hopeful that the club will be humming along on the way to the playoffs when and if he’s reinstated to play in 2014……and if so they certainly win need the Arod circus coming to town.

  197. blake December 27th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    JF,

    From earlier….to be clear I want Tanaka….they should absolutely try to sign him but my point was that there is a point where Id walk away if somebody does something stupid and offers him 150 million bucks…..:there is just too much risk there

  198. Yankeeclipper December 27th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Do not be surprised if bidding for Tanaka gets into the $140M to $160M range. Mariners are most likely candidate to throw that kind of money out there as an attempt to pre-empt market. Yanks will need to be there if they want him.

  199. blake December 27th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

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  200. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

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  201. ron December 27th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    You can’t release arod with 4 years,roughly 88 million left.
    Simply insane to do so.
    Somebody will pick him up for league minimum,while the Yankees pay him,and if he can ops remotely close to .800,he will be better than any option we have,still.
    The only way you can release arod is,if he plays for a full year,or more,and just does not produce,therefor clogging a roster spot.
    We have absolutely nobody that can come close to putting up decent numbers at 3b,now,or in the near future.
    Hopefully jags,the 3b we signed turns into a decent player.

  202. blake December 27th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    “You can’t release arod with 4 years,roughly 88 million left.”

    Sure you can…..it’s not like he’s any good anymore. It’s dead money anyway…..I mean they could make him sell hot dogs I guess

  203. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    A-rod is still better than any other option the Yankees have at 3B.

  204. blake December 27th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Patrick says:
    December 27, 2013 at 3:06 pm
    A-rod is still better than any other option the Yankees have at 3B.

    Right now….and only until he gets hurt

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  206. tbone1570 December 27th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    joeman December 27th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    and right now ARod is healthier than jeter

    ***************************

    and your opinion is based on what?

  207. blake December 27th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    I just have Arod fatigue guys…..as I said earlier I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze anymore with him and the distraction and negative he brings to the new chemistry they are trying the create probably outweighs anything he can do on the field anymore.

    Yes is unlikely they will just release him given they owe him so much money…..but Id consider it if they can’t trade him ….JMO

  208. Bo knows December 27th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    The thing that was frustrating about Hughes was that he didn’t develop at the Majors level. He had two pitches when he got there and years later he was still at two pitches. He was constantly tinkering and every year, he would fall in love with some new wrinkle – which would work until it didn’t.

    Through it all, he never learned to change speeds. He would pump the same FB over and over and…. Was it the coach? Was it him? The result was the same, whoever was at fault. Every top flight pitcher has to learn to change speeds, that is the one axiom. You have to disrupt the hitter’s timing.

  209. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    and your opinion is based on what?

    Based on most recent evidence. A-rod finished the season mostly healthy, Jeter did not.

  210. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Jeter was bad when he did play and then immediately hurt. His injury was actually pretty serious as it can derail careers and he is 40.

    A-rod came back from his surgery and was an above average hitter overall. Not worth the money, but thats a sunk cost.

  211. tbone1570 December 27th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    and your opinion is based on what?

    Based on most recent evidence. A-rod finished the season mostly healthy, Jeter did not.

    **************************
    he said “right now” not the end of last season. If joeman has better info, I would like to see what it is.

  212. Ys Guy December 27th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    id aggree about the relative health of arod and jeter, we just dont know about jeter and arod’s current state of health means nothing as he wont be playing until mid may at the earliest.

    but i have very serious doubt that jeter will ever be an everyday SS again.

  213. Jerkface December 27th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Why is A-rod out until mid may?

  214. Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    he said “right now” not the end of last season. If joeman has better info, I would like to see what it is.

    I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to assume A-rod is in better health than Jeter right now. Alex came back from the hip surgery and was able to play on a consistent basis. Jeter’s ankle is still a big question mark. He tried to come back several times and re-injured his ankle each time. Jeter hasn’t proven that his injury is behind him, A-rod has.

  215. Bo knows December 27th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Yankee Fem

    and much better than the Youks and flukes of the Yankee world of the past few years.
    ——————–
    Now that’s a classic, right there. Woorf!

  216. joeman December 27th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Patrick December 27th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
    he said “right now” not the end of last season. If joeman has better info, I would like to see what it is.

    I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to assume A-rod is in better health than Jeter right now. Alex came back from the hip surgery and was able to play on a consistent basis. Jeter’s ankle is still a big question mark. He tried to come back several times and re-injured his ankle each time. Jeter hasn’t proven that his injury is behind him, A-rod has.
    ——————————————
    nice job Patrick

  217. tbone1570 December 27th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    so, no better info then what everyone saw at the end of the season

  218. blake December 27th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Jeter is the captain of the team and the opposite of a distraction…..he’s not suing the team doctor. Plus they only owe him 12 million for one season……plus Derek had actually been a good player more recently than Arod has (2012). Alex really hasn’t been healthy in like 5 years…….he’s a broken down mess at this point and even if he is healthy when he comes back it won’t last…..you don’t get hurt every year for 5 or 6 years then all the sudden become durable again at age 40……

  219. blake December 27th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    If Alex wasn’t such a malcontent and circus show then Id like him in the role I want Baker for…..they need to sign Drew and stop even considering that Arod exists rigt now

  220. tomingeorgia December 27th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    My prophesy: Arod will return and will hit well, with power, and field respectably, and I do not want to pay him to do it for somebody else.

  221. pete2 December 27th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    I would not be surprised if Arod is released by the Yankees after his suspension, or at least after 2014, and then subsequently blackballed by MLB teams like Barry Bonds was. What would the LT implications be for the Yankees if they released Arod and paid off what they owe in a lump sum?

    As for Jeter, not sure what to expect really. Seeing him hobble around last year has me pessimistic, but I suppose he can bounce back if he pushes it this offseason. Still, he is 2 years older than 2012 and in 2012 his UZR was -15 runs, and he had 40 IFH in 2012, so if he loses a step or 2 cut that in half.

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