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Potential trade target (or maybe not): Logan Forsythe

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 14, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ph_523253File this one as part of that wide net Brian Cashman always talks about: Jon Morosi reported yesterday that the Yankees checked with the Padres about trading for some infield depth. According to Morosi, the target isn’t Chase Headley — who seems barely available, if he’s available at all — but rather utility man Logan Forsythe, a right-handed hitter who struggled last year but hit .384/.465/.545 against lefties in 2012.

I asked a source about the possibility of a Forsythe trade and was told this: “No smoke here. Rumor.”

We all know Cashman tends to check on a lot of different possibilities in the winter (probably true of every general manager), and lately the Yankees have sent signals that they’re looking for Forsythe-type complementary players rather than impact, everyday, third-base solutions. One executive from outside the Yankees organization said it seems the Yankees have asked about every possible third-base option in baseball.

So, are the Yankees going to trade for Logan Forsythe? I guess it’s possible, but I was told that such a trade isn’t imminent.

Comments

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124 Responses to “Potential trade target (or maybe not): Logan Forsythe”

  1. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Reposted from previous thread; Shame thanks for the feedback.

    Having been involved in over 200 arbitration hearings I am well aware that in many instances an arbitrator’s decision, on its face, may be ludicrous. I am also well aware of the fact that in 99.9% of the cases decided by an arbitrator both party’s are stuck with the decision, ludicrous as it may be.
    In this regard I am in the same camp as the majority of “legal experts” who have opined that Rodriguez is unlikely to prevail in federal court.
    After reading the Arbitrator’s decision, it was clear there were two issues, which simple put were “Did MLB prove that Alex Rodriguez continually violate the JDA?” and if so, “What is the proper penalty”
    It can be easily argued that MLB only need rely on their witnesses to prove the first issue, but what troubles me is the fact, Bud Selig, the individual who issued the discipline did not testify as to how he arrived at 214 games and left this unanswered question to the Arbitrator’s discretion.
    Since this is what the Party’s bargained for, I doubt that this is enough to overturn Horowitz’ decision, but as the “legal experts” also say, you never know.

  2. Warning Track Power January 14th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Good job Cash. Keep kicking those tires around until you hit the tire
    that makes you feel the most comfortable.

    Fine GM doing his job 8 days a week

  3. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Someone brought this up last night, I believe.. kudos to that LoHud poster.

  4. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    blake January 14th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Me and Steven Drew are goin to go live on the island with Bret and David Dejesus

    —————–

    Hehehe…

    I don’t hate the idea of Drew it just gives me the sads that Drew is better than what we have. I’d rather try to acquire younger INFers if possible. Diaz and maybe a trade. Adding two more guys with actual potential would be nice.

  5. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    blake January 14th, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    There are a lot of folks that want Rose in the HOF now…..that wasn’t the case when he was caught betting on the game

    —–

    I think Rose eventually gets in.

    But he may not be around to finally enjoy it like what happened to Santo (but for obviously different circumstances).

  6. blake January 14th, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    I think once Bud is gone….there may be some movement on Rose…..I think once Bud is gone the game can finally start healing from the PED era as well. Buds ego has kept the league from moving on for years…..he’s made it totally about him and his legacy

  7. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
    May God have mercy on your soul.

    —–

    I’ve used that reference many times myself. Those were the days when Adam Sandler was still funny and made good movies.

  8. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    Baker over Forsyth please.

    ;)

  9. Mottsx January 14th, 2014 at 3:04 pm

    But Blake wouldn’t you rather just wait for JJ or Hanley next year? ;) They will look good next to ALEX at 3b.

  10. blake January 14th, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    Mottsx says:
    January 14, 2014 at 3:04 pm
    But Blake wouldn’t you rather just wait for JJ or Hanley next year? They will look good next to ALEX at 3b.

    I want drew at SS and Headley at 3b

  11. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    What happens on “Roberts signing official (plus LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow)” stays on “Roberts signing official (plus LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow)”

    :-)

  12. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    But speaking of Adam Sandler…The Longest Yard??!?!? Really?!?!?

  13. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    What happens on “Roberts signing official (plus LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow)” stays on “Roberts signing official (plus LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow)”

    —–

    Don’t know what will happen tomorrow regarding Roberts but I think it’s safe to say he won’t be healthy enough to play a full season.

    Hell, I think the Yanks will be lucky to get 80 games out of him.

  14. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    Guys, thanks for the advice on the car. I will definitely buy something new or close to new (one year certified)? because I want the warranty and want something that won’t need repairs for a while or at least that I won’t be paying for. My current car, bless it, is 16 years old. I love that car with my life, and it still looks great. But it is headed toward nickel and dime city and I can feel it.

    About leasing. I can’t tell you why, but the thought of leasing a car bothers me. And that puts me into the monthly payment that I’m trying to avoid anyway.

    No idea what kind I want.

    Admission. When I got my current car painted this past summer, I took off my Yankee plate holder and took the big NY off the back of my car. I was tired of having it keyed by psychotic Sux fans, and I couldn’t chance it happening after a $1000 paint job (lots of dings removed also.)

  15. pat January 14th, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    BNightengale
    Will Smith of the #Brewers organization becomes 1st player suspended since Arod receiving 100 games for amphetamines and recreational drug

  16. pat January 14th, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    BNightengale
    Will West of #Brewers gets suspended, not Smith

  17. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    I think 2b is less of problem than 3b because Johnson and Roberts are a pretty solid platoon there.

    Now 3b ?

    That’s more of a problem. The options are more limited and the production required is higher.

    That’s why I’m hoping we add at Least Baker.

    That way KJ can shuttle between 2b an 3b.

    It will make JG very happy. He’ll get to imitate Tony LaRussa more.

    :)

  18. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    And unfortunately once I got home I realized I left my garage door opener in the rental car.

    sigh.

    Later y’all.

  19. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    Good luck with your purchase Trisha.

    Me. I’d go w Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, or Ford.

    All pretty much bullet proof.

    Hyundai has the best warranty.

    ;)

  20. Mottsx January 14th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Honda Accord Sport best car for your buck. Short warranty but one of my Honda’s ive had for 11 years with zero problems.

  21. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    receiving 100 games for amphetamines and recreational drug

    ——————

    Wow, so here we go… guys will start getting 50 games per drug.

  22. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    If you’re going upscale Lexus or Acura.

    ;)

  23. Jerkface January 14th, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    Wow, so here we go… guys will start getting 50 games per drug.

    -

    No, this is this second offense. He got suspended for recreational drugs in april.

  24. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    no way pete rose gets into the hof while he’s still alive.

  25. Warning Track Power January 14th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    blake January 14th, 2014 at 2:59 pm
    I think once Bud is gone….there may be some movement on Rose…..I think once Bud is gone the game can finally start healing from the PED era as well. Buds ego has kept the league from moving on for years…..he’s made it totally about him and his legacy
    —————————————————————————————–
    I want a t-shirt that reads exactly like your post.

    Bud is trying to save his legacy with this Alex situation.
    Bud seems to forget he turned his back on PED use years ago. Funny how selective memory works out in a person’s favor

  26. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    No, this is this second offense. He got suspended for recreational drugs in april.

    —————–

    Ooo.. well so much for that lol, interpreted that tweet incorrectly.

  27. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:23 pm

    pat January 14th, 2014 at 3:13 pm
    BNightengale
    Will Smith of the #Brewers organization becomes 1st player suspended since Arod receiving 100 games for amphetamines and recreational drug
    ===
    I’m surprised Smith didn’t do what many players do and get a prescription for amphetamines to battle ADD. As for recreational drug use, I can’t recall if that was covered under union contract. Doesn’t seem like PED. I don’t recall Jeff Weaver ever being suspended for smoking marijuana (have to assume if was coke or something else).

  28. Ted Nelson January 14th, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    What I remember reading yesterday was speculation that it might be Forsythe because Headley would cost too much, nothing saying that it was Forsythe.

    I don’t think Forsythe is an improvement over what they have. Maybe as depth if they’re giving him away, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the real reason the Yankees were calling was to check in on Headley even if they approached it as if they were just asking around about everyone.

  29. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Amphetamines played a far more significant role in the daily grind of a 162 game season than HGH or steroids ever did.

  30. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
    no way pete rose gets into the hof while he’s still alive.

    I disagree. He can always buy a ticket.

    And when Selig is gone, who knows what will happen (aside from…cue the soundtrack…The Shadow)?

    It is usually folly to predict the future with certainty,

  31. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    “It is usually folly to predict the future with certainty,”

    Not unless you happen to be Nostradamus or the Amazing Kreskin.

    Then it’s easy.

    :)

  32. JobaTipsHisCap January 14th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    This morning WFAN Boomer praise Mike Trout doesn’t take PEDs.
    I mean, who takes PEDs at age of 22?

    what a fxxker boomer is. LOL

  33. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:29 pm
    “It is usually folly to predict the future with certainty,”

    Not unless you happen to be Nostradamus or the Amazing Kreskin.

    Then it’s easy.
    ====
    :-)

  34. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Right now I’d be pretty happy w an accurate prediction as to where MT lands.

    Any Psychics or Seers in the house ?

    People w ESP ?

    Tarot card readers ?

    :)

  35. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Bojo
    The following link is to the JDA:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

    It includes marijuana and hashish, as well as amphetamines, but I do not know where the 100 game suspension comes from as the JDA specifically states 80 games for a 3rd violation.

  36. JobaTipsHisCap January 14th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    NFL conf champ games.
    Root for Seahawks and Denver.
    But Tom Brady has better chance to win it.

  37. AAA January 14th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    Amphetamines played a far more significant role in the daily grind of a 162 game season than HGH or steroids ever did.

    ========================

    HYPOCRISY!!!!!!! ;)

  38. bigdan22 January 14th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    JimK January 14th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Having been involved in over 200 arbitration hearings I am well aware that in many instances an arbitrator’s decision, on its face, may be ludicrous. I am also well aware of the fact that in 99.9% of the cases decided by an arbitrator both party’s are stuck with the decision, ludicrous as it may be.
    In this regard I am in the same camp as the majority of “legal experts” who have opined that Rodriguez is unlikely to prevail in federal court.
    After reading the Arbitrator’s decision, it was clear there were two issues, which simple put were “Did MLB prove that Alex Rodriguez continually violate the JDA?” and if so, “What is the proper penalty”
    It can be easily argued that MLB only need rely on their witnesses to prove the first issue, but what troubles me is the fact, Bud Selig, the individual who issued the discipline did not testify as to how he arrived at 214 games and left this unanswered question to the Arbitrator’s discretion.
    Since this is what the Party’s bargained for, I doubt that this is enough to overturn Horowitz’ decision, but as the “legal experts” also say, you never know.

    ___________

    Some good points Jimk. I had a problem with Selig not testifying as well but I believe that that’s an area where a court will give an arbitrator quite a bit a leeway, assuming of course there was another witness who did testify and was qualified to speak to the length of the suspension.

    I think the key point is what you mentioned: what did the parties bargain for? I think that the parties clearly bargained for a punishment system that was progressive. That is, I think parties thought about this, negotiated and agreed that a player shouldn’t get a life sentence on his first conviction. That no matter how many times he took a banned substance, the first suspension should be 50 games. And that is reflected in Section 7.L. of the JDA.

    I think Horowitz “worked around” what the parties had bargained for to agree with MLB by giving Arod 162 through his “multiple banned substances” interpretation. Essentially, he disregarded the agreement and therefore disregarded the law.

    Now a court could easily say that the agreement, like almost any agreement, is ambiguous as to some points and Horowitz’s interpretation was reasonable. If the parties want to change this in the next agreement they can go ahead. That’s not the role of the court. But my point, based on your concept of “what the parties bargained for,” is there is a legal hook to vacate the decision.

  39. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    JimK January 14th, 2014 at 3:35 pm
    ==
    Thank you.

  40. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    I absolutely will be rooting against the NEP’s.

    :)

  41. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    And I’ll be pulling for the Seahawks.

  42. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    So sad. Finally get a SB in the metro area and no NY Team is even represented.

    :(

  43. Ted Nelson January 14th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    “Johnson and Roberts are a pretty solid platoon there.”

    I don’t know that Roberts/Johnson make an ideal platoon. Johnson has about even career splits, but struggled against LHP in 2011-12. Roberts hit LHP better in like 1/2 a season in 2013, but on his career has the opposite splits.

    “The options are more limited and the production required is higher.”

    I don’t know that the production required is much higher anymore. I think that was a by-product of the PED-era. In 2013 you had 13 qualifying 2B who hit league average or better, and 15 at 3B.

  44. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    sweeney says the yankees will not fall back on santana jiminez or garza if they dont get tanaka.

  45. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    What does Sweeney know ?

    Is he a personal friend of Hal ?

    ;)

  46. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    francessa suggests arroyo again.

    does he get a cut of bronson’s check?

  47. Tackelberry January 14th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    NFL conf champ games.
    Root for Seahawks and Denver.
    But Tom Brady has better chance to win it.

    _________________________________

    Why? Game is in Denver. PLus, no Gronkowski is big loss for Pats. Peyton is on a mission this year. KNows this could be his last chance at another ring. Eli won a SB in Peyton’s backyard 3 years ago. I’m sure Peyton is determined to return the gesture this year

  48. Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.

  49. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    I might be wrong on this as it happened a long time ago, but IIRC, there was a player suspended for cocaine use, and he was able to get his suspension overturned after the fact. How? He got a doctor to testify that he had ADD and was self-medicating.

    You’ll all surely recall the player–Steve Howe…who actually had like 7 suspensions.

    My point is that i wonder if this player could overturn the suspension by having a doctor testify he was being treated for ADD.

  50. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.
    ====
    Might be better than plan A. I’ve been saying for some time that I am willing to patiently wait a year until they really can get some top talent. Signing Kershaw and Scherzer would qualify as worth waiting for.

  51. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    “Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.
    =================
    its a low % play.

  52. bigdan22 January 14th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.

    ——–

    I referred to this strategy Saturday morning, minutes after the announcement of the Arod decision. Problem is, Plan B is likely to result in win total of less than 90 and no playoffs. It’s one thing if you are rebuilding and are playing a lot of exciting young players like the Jets did this year. But the Yanks have mostly over 30 guys who’s window is closing.

  53. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    “Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.”

    Yes it is for a few reasons.

    1st of all there is no guaranty that CK will ever make to FA.

    2nd, even if he does there is no guaranty we can lure him to NY.

    3rd, that means that our Team will not be competitive this year.

    For all those reasons and probably more a bad way to go IMO.

    Hope it doesn’t go down like that.

    ;)

  54. blake January 14th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Captain Clutch says:
    January 14, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.

    I am for this if they don’t get tanaka….to me it’s either tanaka and more this year or hold , get under 189 and blow it out next year

  55. chicken little January 14th, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    Even if Tanaka goes to LA, i still see the Dodgers re-signing Kershaw. That said, i think Bailey, Scherzer, Masterson, Shields, and Lester (or at least a couple of them) will make it to FA. Not bad consolation prizes.

  56. mick January 14th, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Referendum still is out on Hal.
    We have no idea if he will make a sincere effort for Tanaka.
    Could follow the same script as Cano.
    Nice try, no cigar…

  57. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    No finishing off the pitching will mean that all the money that Hal has already spent will be for nothing.

    The Pitching as it sits is not good enough IMO.

    It’s light on innings, quality, and depth.

    It will be an accident waiting to happen.

    Don’t risk it Hal.

    ;)

  58. BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Kershaw reportedly turned down a $300M extension from Dodgers. Pretty sure that Close wants to take him to FA market.

    Latest rumor has Mets making another play for Tanaka by offering him a $300M deal..Details are it is $3M per year for 100 years or until he retires–whichever comes first. Mets fans are hopeful.

  59. mick January 14th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    3rd, that means that our Team will not be competitive this year.
    ============
    I have a problem with this.
    If we stay healthy we have a good shot.
    Maybe Nova, Phelps and Pineda step up.
    Too many variables to count us out.

  60. pat January 14th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Question for the lawyers….

    The same judge who ruled about Alex’s PR guy not testifying in December is the same judge assigned to yesterdays case against MLB/MLBPA.

    Is that unusual it would be the same judge especially in this area?

  61. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    Bigdan22, thanks for the feedback and I personally believe Horowitz interpretation meets my standard of “ludicrous.” Moreover, based on the mere fact that Horowitz felt compelled to detail his reasoning leaves me to believe that MLB did not have anyone testify as to the rationale for the original suspension.
    That being said, even under the “progressive discipline” standard of most labor contracts, management has the right to bypass the “progressive” discipline process in certain instances.
    It’s still a crap shoot, and the odds are ARod, will roll “snake eyes,” in his pursuit for legal intervention.

  62. macintosh January 14th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    “I had close to perfect SATs and then scored 99.9% on GMATs…I’m pretty sure you don’t.”

    i just received a telepathic message from beyond from gb7.

    he was wondering WTF your were doing on this blog.

  63. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    Blake-

    Then you can kiss this year goodbye.

    They are not winning it all with the current staff IMO.

    Forget it.

    It would take extreme good fortune.

    I’d rather tilt the odds more in our favor.

    Very stupid move IMO if that is the way it goes.

  64. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    BoJo January 14th, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
    @AndrewMarchand

    Plan B ain’t bad: Lose out on Tanaka, get under $189M and then give Kershaw a blank check next offseason.

    —–

    I’d be fine with that strategy if Marchand had a crystal ball and guaranteed it would play out that way.

    But we don’t know what Kershaw will do a year from now. That would be a big gamble.

  65. austinmac January 14th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    The Dodgers probably have plans too. Sign Tanaka and Kershaw.

  66. pkyankfan69 January 14th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    If Tanaka signs with LA because he wants to be on the WC or if Tanaka signs with an M’s/Cubs type because they went nuts and offered him like $180M then so be it as long as the Yanks made a hard push. It would be disappointing but I could live with that… I’d be pissed if it comes out that we only offered like 4 years – $80M and weren’t even really major players… I don’t expect that though, I fully believe the Yankees are trying their best to get this done. Silence is golden when it comes to the Yanks trying to sign a big deal.

  67. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Bojo

    Your welcome

  68. pkyankfan69 January 14th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Tanaka
    Balfour
    Aram

    And we’re in major business.

  69. blake January 14th, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    It’s not even about Kershaw though for me….it’s about not wanting to put more bad money on the books it’ll it’s not going to put them over the top in 2014…..Tanaka is that type guy presumably ….I’m not are the rest are

  70. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    i dont agree that no tanaka means no decent rotation this year.
    they can still have a very good rotation, it’s just less likely, thats not the same thing.

    if cc has a comeback and pineda or nuno or someome can plug the pettitte they can have a fine rotation. but they have a much thinner margin and significant injury or decline or a lack of a cc comeback will then doom them.

    its more likely they will struggle, but their fate is not sealed if they dont get tanaka

  71. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    Mick-

    Then again we must agree to disagree.

    There is too much risk already built in to add all that to it.

    I am quite sure they won’t go that route because Cashman said as much.

    He stated that they needed 400 innings before Kuroda.

    I count him for 175.

    That leaves 225 unaccounted for. And that is w/o counting any injuries or lost time to anyone else.

    Pineda, Phelps, etc. are not enough to cover that in a viable way.

    And Warren and Nuno in back of them do not inspire.

    Bad idea Mick. Too risky.

    Should not happen. Your view is too much rose colored glasses even for me.

    ;)

  72. austinmac January 14th, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    If the Yankees’ plan is to to fall short on Tanaka, skip the other free agent pitchers and go under 189, then we fans will have a lot of non-Yankee plans this summer. Hal can spend his time with his abacus counting the income going down the drain.

  73. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    And there are still issues w the pen and at 3b.

    If Hal chooses this route I think he is nullifying all the other hard work that’s been done this season.

    It’s self-contradictory.

    He needs to finish what he started.

    ;)

  74. pat January 14th, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Derek sure is diversifying. Publishing and now a food company with Lululemon?

  75. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    i think the dodgers are going to have to extend kershaw as soon as they sign tanaka if that happens. playing his last season as the 5th highest pitcher on their payroll and 10th highest player overall could raise some real resentment when they all get to ST and whip out their contracts, so to speak.

    and you can bet close will pull the ‘we’re not talking once the season starts’ routine.

  76. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    Mac-

    If that is what they wind up doing I’m withdrawing my apology.

    And I will join you as a malcontent.

    :)

  77. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Horowitz was required to reconcile three different sections of the JDA, Secions 7(A), 7(G)(2) and 7(L), which don’t necessarily hang together all that well. Horowitz determined that ARod was properly punished under 7(G)(2), and he appears from my reading to believe that 7(L) properly applies to discipline under 7(A), not 7(G)(2).

    However, Horowitz went on to address Section 7(L) of the JDA, he didn’t ignore it. He stated that the notice provisions for non-analytical positives did not protect a player from being separately disciplined due to the use of different prohibited substances. He supports that with precedent from Panel Decision No. 121 which stated that the language of the JDA reasonably implied that “there is a general understanding that separate uses are subject to separate discipline.” So the clear implication is that even if 7(A) did apply, in Horowitz’ interpretation of the JDA, Section 7(L) would not.

    Now, you or I may disagree with Horowitz interpretation or conclusion, and that’s fine for an academic argument which we can have anytime, but I think it is fair to state that his reading is not beyond the bounds of reason. In fact it is perfectly logical, although I’m sure logic could have just as easily constructed an alternate outcome.

    Given that, and given the fact that Horowitz is the ultimate interpreter of the JDA and the CBA in the case before him, an attack on the arbitration decision based on 7(A)/7(G)(2)/7(L) reasoning is highly unlikely to go anywhere.

  78. bigdan22 January 14th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    pat January 14th, 2014 at 3:53 pm
    Question for the lawyers….

    The same judge who ruled about Alex’s PR guy not testifying in December is the same judge assigned to yesterdays case against MLB/MLBPA.

    Is that unusual it would be the same judge especially in this area?—–

    ——-

    I didn’t know that. I know of nothing of the other case.

    This is a practice in law called “low numbering.” What that means is assigning a new case to a judge who has a related older case so that you aren’t wasting judicial resources. This could be the reason Arod got judge Pauley in the matter he filed yesterday. Or it could be a coincidence. I just don’t know enough about the other case.

  79. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Re: Tanaka, I think the Y’s still have the “Igawa regret syndrome.”

  80. austinmac January 14th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Blake,

    You are letting the Hal and his bookkeeping affect you. Not spending this year in no way says they will spend next year or have anyone to spend it on. It will make the Yankees less a desirable team to play for and will cause huge income losses.

    A winning Yankee team makes huge money. A so-so Yankee team probably makes little income.

    Not adding legitimate pitching is bailing on this year. That is unacceptable and stupid. That said, it won’t surprise me in the least considering the choices made the last three years.

  81. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    I will make it my mission in life to poke endless fun at Hal and Co.

    So I hope I won’t have to because I think he is smarter than that.

    ;)

  82. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    My current happiness with Hal and co. is predicated on the notion that 189 sits at the bottom of the sea. In a watery grave.

    If it is somehow resurrected I’m going on the warpath.

    ;)

  83. Warning Track Power January 14th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    MTU January 14th, 2014 at 3:54 pm
    Blake-

    Then you can kiss this year goodbye.

    They are not winning it all with the current staff IMO.

    Forget it.

    It would take extreme good fortune.

    I’d rather tilt the odds more in our favor.

    Very stupid move IMO if that is the way it goes.
    ————————————————————————————-
    True. Unless C.C. has a HUGE comeback year and/and Pineda pitches like the #2 he
    once was projected to be.

  84. mick January 14th, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Bad idea Mick. Too risky.

    Should not happen. Your view is too much rose colored glasses even for me.
    =================
    Well, tell ya what MTU.
    I am not going to sit here on the computer and worry about it and repeat myself over and over again like you do since I have no control over it.
    We get your point already…

  85. pat January 14th, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Dan

    I read the Judge assigned yesterday was Ramos who was the judge from December. If the judge yesterday is Pauley, the article I read had the wrong name.

  86. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    mac-

    If that is what happens (heaven forbid) I want you to keep telling me “I told you so” over and over again.

    Because I’ll deserve it.

    ;)

  87. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    “My current happiness with Hal and co. is predicated on the notion that 189 sits at the bottom of the sea. In a watery grave.

    If it is somehow resurrected I’m going on the warpath.”

    MTU-

    Here’s the point that either you are missing, or I am very wrong about (highly possible).

    If the Yanks blow through the cap this year, they aren’t all of a sudden going to forget all about the luxury tax hit in 2015 and beyond once they have to start paying ARod again. They are going to do what they have been doing, which is to skimp on the bench, find a cut-rate DH or two, and generally not spend money if they can avoid it.

    I don’t think that’s a recipe for success. It will also annoy me to no end.

  88. austinmac January 14th, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    The Yankee will try to sell the new player additions to win back fans. I believe the fans see the team for what it is, a big pile of mediocrity with huge holes.

    Imagine–if the Yankees get back $22M they previously had budgeted for and put it in their pockets. I hope some sportswriter would actually have the gumption to ask about that.

    The syndrome the Yankees have exhibitwed is the dumb syndrome. The Sox sign Matsuzaka and we sign a guy who had been sent to the Japanese minors a year before for bad performance. The A’s sign Cepsedes and we sign Mustelier. Hey, he’s Cuban too.

    Poor decision after poor decision. If they make another one by going cheap, I predict a 15-20% attendance decline. The fans are already dubious.

  89. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Wave-

    I don’t think so. And I don’t think that’s the only alternative.

    They can try to reset the tax at a later date when conditions are more favorable.

    And if they can’t so what ?

    They’ll be a competitive and winning Team making lot’s of money for Hal anyway.

    Hopefully, last year taught him an enduring lesson.

    As far as I’m concerned 189 can stay dead and buried for eternity.

    ;)

  90. Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    The yanks should try to sign Tanaka and Kershaw or Scherzer. They really need to spend money to upgrade the rotation. This is most likely Kuroda’s last year and with CC no loner being what he was they desperately need a #1 type starter.

  91. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    Mac-

    I think you’re right.

    ;)

  92. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    “They can try to reset the tax at a later date when conditions are more favorable.”

    I don’t think they can do that until ARod’s contract is behind them. And maybe I’m just a negative Nelly, but I highly doubt they have learned any lessons, they don’t strike me (from afar) as the lesson-learning type.

    Anyway, I want them to sign Tanaka, so I’m advocating 189 only as a fall back, because I am not as high on the alternatives as you evidently are.

  93. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    if you’re so hot for cespedes, he’s been on the block all winter.

    gardner had a higher ops than cespedes last year.

  94. macintosh January 14th, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    “About leasing. I can’t tell you why, but the thought of leasing a car bothers me”

    you’re only paying for less than half the car on a three year lease. you pay sales tax on only the month you’re paying. the lease is same length as new car warranty.

    you are leasing the best three years of the car for like a third of it’s price

    it would be like leasing a free agent player for the best three years of his career and then turning him in at lease end and only paying a third approx. of his total value.

    you’d still have option of keeping him if you want and paying the rest of his total value. if you like the player you do, if you don’t you don’t.

    i like leasing.

    i wish the yankees leased teixeira.
    ( though i think he’s going to have a good year)

  95. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    OK Wave.

    We just have different views on this.

    No harm no foul.

    ;)

  96. Ys Guy January 14th, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    in the next cba they should do what the nba did and let teams have an amnesty from the LT on one contract.

  97. Captain Clutch January 14th, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    If the Yanks don’t get Tanaka because he chooses a different team fine. But if they lose him because they low ball him I will be really pissed. I doubt that will happen since it sounds like they are all in so I would be surprised if they don’t offer $120m-$140m. The Dodgers can go to a crazy number but I don’t see it happening. Hopefully they figure out a way to get it done.

  98. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    MTU-

    I didn’t mean to beat a dead horse. Just wanted to post a few non-ARod comments.

  99. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Wave-

    I don’t see AR in PS ever again.

    ;)

  100. macintosh January 14th, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    “They can try to reset the tax at a later date when conditions are more favorable.”

    it’s not true that hal asked levine if there was an app on his iphone to reset the tax .

    totally untrue.

  101. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Wave-

    You and I have always gotten along just fine FWIS.

    Nothing but the utmost respect for you.

    Other than that you really need some fresh air.

    :)

  102. blake January 14th, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    You are letting the Hal and his bookkeeping affect you. Not spending this year in no way says they will spend next year or have anyone to spend it on. It will make the Yankees less a desirable team to play for and will cause huge income losses.”

    No I just don’t think the budget is going away….look I with they could sign a bunch of guys this year and sign a bunch next year too but I’m not sure that’s realistic…..even if they go over 189 it’s unlikely Hal will allow the payroll to get above that 220-230 range it’s been…..so they can’t just keep spending money…..I want the money they do spend to be good money

  103. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    New one ——>

    Catch you all later.

    Off to run a few errands.

  104. JimK January 14th, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    Wave your Hat, my original prediction was for 150 games, however I added the 50 game suspension to the 100 game facilitation clause to arrive at my number, but you are correct Horowitz was paid for the decision not me.

  105. MTU January 14th, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    Blake-

    Next year Kuroda disappears, and Ichiro, and Soriano, and maybe even Jeter.

    That’s some serious money coming off the books.

    like 40 mil.

  106. bigdan22 January 14th, 2014 at 4:40 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2014 at 4:05 pm
    Horowitz was required to reconcile three different sections of the JDA, Secions 7(A), 7(G)(2) and 7(L), which don’t necessarily hang together all that well. Horowitz determined that ARod was properly punished under 7(G)(2), and he appears from my reading to believe that 7(L) properly applies to discipline under 7(A), not 7(G)(2).

    However, Horowitz went on to address Section 7(L) of the JDA, he didn’t ignore it. He stated that the notice provisions for non-analytical positives did not protect a player from being separately disciplined due to the use of different prohibited substances. He supports that with precedent from Panel Decision No. 121 which stated that the language of the JDA reasonably implied that “there is a general understanding that separate uses are subject to separate discipline.” So the clear implication is that even if 7(A) did apply, in Horowitz’ interpretation of the JDA, Section 7(L) would not.

    Now, you or I may disagree with Horowitz interpretation or conclusion, and that’s fine for an academic argument which we can have anytime, but I think it is fair to state that his reading is not beyond the bounds of reason. In fact it is perfectly logical, although I’m sure logic could have just as easily constructed an alternate outcome.

    Given that, and given the fact that Horowitz is the ultimate interpreter of the JDA and the CBA in the case before him, an attack on the arbitration decision based on 7(A)/7(G)(2)/7(L) reasoning is highly unlikely to go anywhere.

    ________

    Good analysis, now we’re getting somewhere. (except your part about Horowitz being the “ultimate interpreter of the JDA in this matter.” As with any matter, the ultimate interpreter is the highest court that has jurisdiction and agrees to hear the case. It could even be the Supreme Court in this instance)

    I sort of wonder why Horowitz needed to go to the progressive penalty formula (7.A) for a
    non-analytical positive when the standard under 7.G.2 is simply “just cause.” I suggested in my original post last night (you should read that) that he probably didn’t want that the standard to appear totally arbitrary. Re-thinking this now, maybe he needed some way to get to 150 and the 50 of the 50/100/life gets you there if you multiply 50 by three. I think that sounds better than saying Selig had just cause to give Arod 150 games. That’s why last night I called this some “very tricky lawyering.”

    Looking forward at the decision, with the protection of 7.L specifically covering non-analytical positives, Horowitz got a little worried about his rationale so he came up with his one single cite, Panel Decision No 121 (Nefi Perez), “there is a general understanding that separate uses are subject to separate discipline.” First of all, is this decision available for review? Did the Nefi case even deal with the interpretation of these provisions? It looks to me that the principle he references is extremely general and may not apply to any facts of the facts of this case (you see, tricky, because we don’t have that case do we?). But here’s the rub, where’s the authority for holding that 7.L. protection (you can’t be punished for acts occurring before your first 50 game suspension) doesn’t apply to the use of multiple drugs? That you can multiply each banned drug by 50 games to triple the penalty for a first time offender. He gives absolutely no authority for this. Or is that what Nefi says? I bet not. Very tricky! (See p. 29 of the decision)

    The crux of this matter, as I pointed out before, is that Horowitz circumvents an important policy of the JDA: punishment should be gradual so players have an opportunity to reform and rehabilitate. This is what JimK was alluding to when he referenced the importance of determining what the parties bargained for. Horowitz, in this decision, has unilaterally removed a key benefit of that bargain.

    But as I pointed out several times, this is all on the judge now. He has a clear way legally to vacate the decision if he wants to. MLB would be smart to stay off TV and not give him more of a reason.

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