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Japanese reports says teams have filed formal offers for Tanaka

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 18, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

As I’ve noted before, finding a good online translation of a Japanese newspaper article isn’t easy. But it seems that the latest news about Masahiro Tanaka is that teams submitted official bids this week, with everyone seriously involved going at least six years and $100 million. The Yankees are mentioned as one of those teams.

This is based on loose translation of a story from Nikkan Sports. I’m able to piece together some rough idea of what the story says, and it helps that the good folks over at MLB Trade Rumors posted the information in a way that I can far more easily understand.

The deadline for a Tanaka decision is Friday.

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243 Responses to “Japanese reports says teams have filed formal offers for Tanaka”

  1. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:41 pm

    repost:

    oak -

    Each morning, Yankee Trader posts a summary of headlines/summaries from the Japanese press. Likely, this is his source:

    http://yakyubaka.com/tag/masahiro-tanaka/

    So if you want to see what the Japanese are writing about his whole mess, check the links.

    Spoiler: The links are in Japanese.

  2. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 8:43 pm

    I would think that Close asked for offers just to get an initial offer. Now they will narrow it down and he will negotiate with 2 or 3 final teams. I am sure that Tanaka has already picked a team and it’s his agents job to get the most money that he can from that team. I don’t think that the highest bidder will win but he will pick where he wants to be if even it’s a little less money. So even if the Cubs offer the most money I don’t think that means anything.

  3. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 8:45 pm

    @TomLoxas

    Heard #Cubs offer for Tanaka in 160 mil neighborhood plus posting fee.

  4. blake January 18th, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Sounds like everyone has bid over 100 million

  5. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    It’s crazy that no one in the media has any idea what the Dodgers or Yanks bid. The only thing we have heard recently is about the Cubs and their insane offers.

  6. bbb51 January 18th, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Tired of all the bs, just make a decision already.

  7. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    If Close told the teams that the minimum was 5 @ 17, it’s not hard to get to 100 from there.

  8. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    Clutch -

    NYY don’t operate in the public arena. Everything they have ever done of consequence has been by stealth. Nothing new here. The other puffery is for the fanbases.

  9. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:54 pm

    And now that MLBTR has posted their story, the rumors are really flying…. yikes.

  10. austinmac January 18th, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    One crazy team, probably the Cubs, is going to blow everyone away. Money overcomes flaws.

  11. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    mac -

    Range of rumors has D’backs at 6/120, CHC and NYY at 8/160. I’m sure there will be more.

  12. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Anthony McCarren’s story:

    Cubs, Dodgers and Yankees still in play for Masahiro Tanaka – http://nydn.us/LyPFso

  13. blake January 18th, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Captain Clutch says:
    January 18, 2014 at 8:45 pm
    @TomLoxas

    Heard #Cubs offer for Tanaka in 160 mil neighborhood plus posting fee.

    That’s nuts

  14. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Figure Tanaka will vote the Dbacks and ChiSox off the island and then choose between the cubs, Yanks and Dodgers

  15. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    I still think that it will come down to the Dodgers and Yanks. The Dodgers are crazy but it’s hard to believe that either team will go over $150m. That is just crazy money for a guy that has never thrown a mlb pitch.

  16. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 9:02 pm

    If the Cubs offered 160, I highly doubt the Yankees went that high.
    So…..
    It will be up to Tanaka if he wants to have a chance to win with a team like the Yankees or the Dodgers, or be paid, but play for a team that will suck for his entire contract. (Cano).
    The Cubs need to step lightly.
    Theo is known for signing ridiculous contracts when walking away and letting it be someone else’s problem.

  17. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    I think if the yanks will match money with the cubs they’ll get him…..dunno if they will. I don’t see the urgency for the Dodgers to go all in but they could if they wanted and them wanting him might be enough

  18. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    blake -

    Chatter has the NYY at the same crazy level as the Cubs….8/160.

  19. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    If I was Hal my final offer would be 7/$147m. If he signs somewhere else I would sign Garza, Drew and Balfour.

  20. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    If the Yankees go 8/160, well that shows the really want him.
    Seems a little bit desperate and I feel like they don’t need him for that much, but at least they field a winner.

  21. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    If I was Hal my final offer would be 7/$147m. If he signs somewhere else I would sign Garza, Drew and Balfour.

    ___

    Agree on Balfour
    Don’t think they are going for Drew
    No thanks to Garza, Jimenez and Santana….

  22. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    Remember, none of this stuff is confirmed, so let’s not get crazy yet.

    Other chatter has NYY at 6/160, which is crazy, crazy money.

  23. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    I can’t see Hal going to 8/160. I think that 7 years is the highest that they will go. Their offer might even be 7/140. Even though I want the Yanks to get him I still think that the Dodgers are the favorites.

  24. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    I’d have to see the entire deal at 8/160 to see if it was worth it..no trade, opt out…seems a little long otherwise.

  25. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:10 pm

    wanzies222 says:
    January 18, 2014 at 9:03 pm
    blake -

    Chatter has the NYY at the same crazy level as the Cubs….8/160.

    Lot of money for somebody that’s never pitched in the bigs

  26. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    Honestly I’d rather have Garza at 3-4 yr vs. Tanaka at 8

  27. Yankee Trader January 18th, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    Range of rumors has D’backs at 6/120, CHC and NYY at 8/160. I’m sure there will be more.

    ——-
    I’m OK with 20M/year and the 8 years ,if really true, will be accompanied with an opt out.

    If it’s between the Cubs and Yankees can you think of one thing that would make him want to choose playing for the Cubs rather than the Yankees, if the deals are equal?

    Unless he wants to bat.

  28. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    To me it’s somewhat hard to justify being unwilling to go past 7/175 for cano if they end up giving Tanaka nearly as much……especially after giving Ellsbury 153

  29. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    That picture of Jack Curry in the twitter feed has him looking like a shady used car salesman…Would You Buy A Car From This Man!!!

  30. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Cano wasn’t going to take a deal that was worth making.

  31. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Agree Blake.

  32. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    I’ll keep reminding you guys… insurance covers DL’d arms, not aging 2B.

    Again, all of these rumors are just that: rumors. None confirmed.

    But much better than talking about the former 3B for the Mariners and Rangers.

  33. tbone1570 January 18th, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    Clutch -

    NYY don’t operate in the public arena. Everything they have ever done of consequence has been by stealth. Nothing new here. The other puffery is for the fanbases.
    —————————————————
    wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:03 pm

    blake -

    Chatter has the NYY at the same crazy level as the Cubs….8/160.
    —————————————————————–
    wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:09 pm

    Remember, none of this stuff is confirmed, so let’s not get crazy yet.

    Other chatter has NYY at 6/160, which is crazy, crazy money.

    *****************************************************
    So if the Yanks use stealth to mask any more of great consequence and there is “chatter” out there about what they are offering, wouldn’t then follow that they are not really in on Tanaka?

  34. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 9:23 pm

    tbone -

    NYY likely still in it, but that’s all I’m believing at this point. None of this chatter comes from the FO.

  35. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:26 pm

    I’m sure it’s just a lot of numbers being thrown around and guessing…someone searching for a story, having somewhat of a source and the story building from there.

  36. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:27 pm

    The real players aren’t going to be letting a lot get out, unless it’s from an agent trying to get the teams to play against each other.

  37. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    To me it’s somewhat hard to justify being unwilling to go past 7/175 for cano if they end up giving Tanaka nearly as much

    ————-

    After Cano signed with Seattle, there were people that were convinced that the Yankees made an offer they knew would be refused because they really didn’t want to re-sign Cano. I thought it was ridiculous at the time… now, I’m beginning to wonder

  38. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    Howler says:
    January 18, 2014 at 9:16 pm
    Cano wasn’t going to take a deal that was worth making.

    Probably true….but is 8/160 plus a posting fee worth making for Tanaka? We are dealing with crazy money here either way…..

  39. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    I think it’s obvious that the Yanks wanted Cano back at their price. They didn’t really, really want him. When the Yanks want someone it’s very obvious. It would stink to go into next year without Tanaka and obviously no Cano. I still don’t get the Ellsbury deal.

  40. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    “After Cano signed with Seattle, there were people that were convinced that the Yankees made an offer they knew would be refused because they really didn’t want to re-sign Cano. I thought it was ridiculous at the time… now, I’m beginning to wonder”

    Honestly I think that’s it…..I think they wanted him but not enough to go past that point….and that they knew that he was probably gone if they didn’t. Something about him they didn’t like at that money…..

  41. oak2455 January 18th, 2014 at 9:36 pm

    Holy crap that’s a lot of gelato

  42. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    I probably wouldn’t do that deal either, but I couldn’t really fault them if they do…It’s just a crapshoot if he’s going to be worth that money. The posting fee I don’t really consider because it doesn’t count against them, and they have plenty of money to spend. The big difference is age, position and the ability to develop someone of that caliber. If he’s just a decent pitcher by eating some of the money they can trade him in a few years, as long as they don’t put in a no trade.

  43. Your Name Here January 18th, 2014 at 9:38 pm

    If it’s between the Cubs and Yankees can you think of one thing that would make him want to choose playing for the Cubs rather than the Yankees, if the deals are equal?

    ———-

    Playing with a core group your own age?

  44. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:40 pm

    Btw Blake, good wins for our teams today… face off against each other Monday. Looking forward to it

  45. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    Probably true….but is 8/160 plus a posting fee worth making for Tanaka? We are dealing with crazy money here either way…..

    They overpaid for Ellsbury they can overpay for a 25 year old starter. If this is the mindset they aren’t going to get any of the hotly contested free agents going forward.

  46. Howler January 18th, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    I think the chance to win would have more pull than playing with a group your own age…and whose to say what that group will look like in a couple of years. It’s probably not much of a consideration.

  47. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    “They overpaid for Ellsbury they can overpay for a 25 year old starter. If this is the mindset they aren’t going to get any of the hotly contested free agents going forward.”

    Yes but there is a point here that you have to consider the risk I think…..from everything I’ve read and saw I think tanaka will be good in MLB ….maybe even great….but it’s not guarantee ….I want him but man 160 is a lot of dough for a guy that never pitched here

  48. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    Hopefully if they do go overboard to get Tanaka then they’ll go ahead and fill the other holes too while they are at it

  49. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    If this is the mindset they aren’t going to get any of the hotly contested free agents going forward

    ————–

    I don’t follow… The fact they are willing to overpay should make them players for hotly contested free agents… maybe I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying

  50. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    I JF is saying that to get the top free agents these days you have to be willing to overpay….I agree there….I just think some players are worth overpaying more than others.

  51. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 9:48 pm

    The fact they are willing to overpay should make them players for hotly contested free agents… maybe I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying

    You are, I’m saying if they aren’t willing to go the distance for Tanaka then they are never going to get a contested free agent. Theres too much money in the game now and in the future. TV deals, revenues are all increasing.

    First its ‘oh no the cubs wanted to pay tanaka a lot of money’ then its ‘oh no the red sox wanted to pay mike trout a lot of money’ and then ‘oh no the tigers wanted to pay bryce harper a lot of money’.

    The only guys they will get are players that arent even that wanted. No one was fiercely bidding for Ellsbury or McCann.

  52. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    Jerk – gotcha. I’m a little slow sometimes

  53. pete2 January 18th, 2014 at 9:51 pm

    I said before that of the Yankees offer him 10/180 he is their man. He will only be age 34 at the end of 10 years, and the value of 20 million then in today’s dollars is only about 13 million. At the very least he should be a valuable ace reliever at the end of his deal. It ain’t the size of the AAV that is most important, its how long you bring it.

  54. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:52 pm

    I get what you’re saying JF….I just think it’s case by case how high you’ll go for certain players. Tanaka isn’t Kershaw….he’s not a guy you just keep I point the bid until he’s yours IMO.

  55. blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    I think Tanaka would want an opt out with a 10/180 deal…..he’s probably gonna want one with any deal but especially one that long

  56. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    I think Tanaka would want an opt out with a 10/180 deal

    ————

    agreed . I think he would want an opt out for any deal longer than 5 or 6

  57. austinmac January 18th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    I tend to agree with JF. You either win these competitions or you do not. They need to win.

  58. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    I just think it’s case by case how high you’ll go for certain players. Tanaka isn’t Kershaw….he’s not a guy you just keep I point the bid until he’s yours IMO.

    Ok but whats the max you’ll go for Trout or Harper? 40 aav? 45 aav? I’m saying in this day and age another team will always be there to 1 up you and if you can’t stomach mid 20s on a 25 year old starting pitcher then you’re not going to be able to stomach what teams will be willing to pay mid 20s position players.

  59. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:00 pm

    JF seems pretty knowledgable about japanese players, some other posters seem to have inside connections… most of us have no clue how much Tanaka is really worth – we rely on posts, tweets, and articles for our info. I guess it boils down to whether you trust the FO to make a sound decision.

  60. pete2 January 18th, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 9:28 pm

    “To me it’s somewhat hard to justify being unwilling to go past 7/175 for cano if they end up giving Tanaka nearly as much”

    The only thing I can think of is that the Yankees may know Canos character better than us. They might feel that with a big money long term deal on what would be his final contract that Cano might slack off on his conditioning. It would not be the first time thats happened. There might also be some PED concerns. Levine joke to Arod may have had a bit of truth . Cano was a workout buddy of Cervelli in the last couple of offseasons, and while players will risk suspension going for the big payday, not everyone will risk a suspension after they get their big payday.

    IMO the Yankees made an offer to Cano that they knew would likely be topped.

  61. Yankee Trader January 18th, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    I believe he’ll get an opt out if it’s 6, 8, or 10 years or somewhere in between.
    Perfect solution for an international player.

  62. pete2 January 18th, 2014 at 10:02 pm

    blake January 18th, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    “I think Tanaka would want an opt out with a 10/180 deal…..he’s probably gonna want one with any deal but especially one that long”

    You are right, 6 yrs should do it.

  63. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    pete2 – you mentioned several things that have crossed my mind but just couldn’t bring myself to say aloud. I really loved Cano and wanted him to be re-signed… Don’t take this as a swipe at you (its not) but I hope you’re wrong

  64. Yankee Trader January 18th, 2014 at 10:11 pm

    Wanzies

    Don’t you have friends in Tokyo?

    Need a stake out at Narita Airport to catch Tonaka and see which flight he’s on! :)

  65. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    I just realized I haven’t seen Luis online in several days… anyone heard from him?

  66. Kelvin January 18th, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Decision day is soon for tanaka. Info is coming out on twitter.

    White Sox out priced, Arizona offered 106M over 6. ESPN has list of all teams that met with him now, apparently. Just hope it’s Yankees ;)

  67. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    YT -

    He hasn’t left yet…. :0

  68. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    Glenn-

    Luis is out wining and dining MT.

    :)

  69. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:20 pm

    Luis is out wining and dining MT

    ——————————

    So, does that help or hurt our cause? :)

    If you’re out there, Luis – just j/k :)

  70. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 10:21 pm

    So, what’s the good news in this latest report?

    How about no Rangers and no Mariners?

  71. BoJo January 18th, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    Looks like the Mets offer of $300M for 100 years was not taken seriously.

  72. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    The anticipation on this whole thing is reaching crazy proportions.

    It’s like when guys all want to date the same woman.

    The competition becomes an object in itself sometimes.

    And when it’s over the realization sets in that it maybe wasn’t what you really wanted after all.

    Wonder if the winning Team will celebrate or have buyers remorse ?

    ;)

  73. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Wonder if the winning Team will celebrate or have buyers remorse ?

    —————

    Both, no doubt about it

  74. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Steve-

    Absolutely a good thing.

    They both might have been serious threats for different reasons.

    Now if could just sabotage the Dodgers.

    ;)

  75. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    ed: if we

  76. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    I’m watching Treehouse Masters on Discovery… Geez! The treehouses they build are nicer than my home!

  77. 4TrainNorth January 18th, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Tanaka’s arm is going to fall off after three years. 10-year contract?

  78. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    I know some of you might not have considered this, or for that matter care, but can you imagine the burden this young Man is going to carry around due to his enormous contract ?

    Remember he isn’t American. He’s Japanese.

    I’d expect he’d feel need to fulfill it more than many.

    I hope he can for his sake as well as the acquiring Team’s sake.

    It will represent an enormous pressure and responsibility.

    Just something else to think about when you need to fall asleep.

    :)

  79. pete2 January 18th, 2014 at 10:34 pm

    chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    ” you mentioned several things that have crossed my mind but just couldn’t bring myself to say aloud. I really loved Cano and wanted him to be re-signed… Don’t take this as a swipe at you (its not) but I hope you’re wrong”

    I hope I am wrong too and hope Cano has a monster year, just trying to understand the thinking in letting him go. At the end of 10 years that 24 million AAV is only going to be about 16 million in today’s dollars, and so long as they had some cost controlled players to subsidize his deal it should not be that much of a burden. Arods contract is a burden primarily because the farm system failed and that 27.5 million next year will be 33.5 million with the HR bonus.

  80. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    Just about all the talk about Tanaka today is still pretty much the same that I heard the other day. Cubs will out spend any club, Dodgers are likely the landing spot but Kuroda keeps the Yanks in the game, maybe ……Still some think either the Mariners and or Angels could be a surprise contender. Everyone does agree that this money for a guy who might top out as a # 2 is crazy especially when his fastball is mediocre at best. Don Baylor a very nice guy who has a quick swing and hits the ball a very long way. Chuck Finley played in the foursome behind us and had three water balls on one hole……The Tanaka drama could be over with by Monday night

  81. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    A-rod’s contract is only a burden because the organization is looking to cut costs.

  82. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 10:38 pm

    Everyone does agree that this money for a guy who might top out as a # 2 is crazy especially when his fastball is mediocre at best

    Its a real shame that Pineda’s fastball is only mediocre at best now :( (And if it isn’t, then Tanaka’s is not, its 90-95 with good control)

  83. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    I think deep down, the Yankees have a little concern about who Cano has been friends with.

    A-Rod
    Melky
    Nelson Cruz

    All busted for PEDs.

  84. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    A-rod’s contract is only a burden because the organization is looking to cut costs.

    ___

    As well they should.
    Or at least, spend wiser.
    They are bogged with horrible contracts.

  85. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    Pat M. after you mentioned Baylor this morning, I was looking at his stats. I saw he had 52 steals in ’76 and 285 for his career. I almost fell out of my chair! I didn’t remember him being a stolen base threat… shows what I know.

  86. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    As well they should.
    Or at least, spend wiser.
    They are bogged with horrible contracts.

    Naw, they are only bogged down if they choose to be bogged down. Game is richer than ever and the Yankees are the richest franchise. Theres no excuse for cutting costs and the team will never have enough good players by ‘spending wiser’, since thats impossible to do in a free agency situation. You just end up with no players. You’d have to get your best players through the farm system and thats unrealistic.

  87. ac1 January 18th, 2014 at 10:45 pm

    Naw, they are only bogged down if they choose to be bogged down. Game is richer than ever and the Yankees are the richest franchise. Theres no excuse for cutting costs and the team will never have enough good players by ‘spending wiser’, since thats impossible to do in a free agency situation. You just end up with no players. You’d have to get your best players through the farm system and thats unrealistic.

    ___

    Are you kidding?
    You think the answer is to sign more stupid contracts?

    How many titles have we won by overspending since 2001?

    1

  88. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    Are you kidding?
    You think the answer is to sign more stupid contracts?

    How many titles have we won by overspending since 2001?

    1

    To get better players on the team, yes. The Yankees should be perfectly capable of spending in free agency and pumping money into player development. Todays stupid contract is tomorrows league standard deal.

    The only way to ‘spend wiser’ in free agency is to not sign anyone. How are you going to make a contending team with no players or only dumpster dive 1 year deals?

  89. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:51 pm

    Time to turn things over to Pat M. and the night shift.

    See you all for the breakfast club.

    :)

  90. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 10:52 pm

    night Mike

  91. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    chicken Stanley, I remember when Baylor came up with Baltimore and he could run. Face, stop being such a defensive chump because all I doing is passing on what was spoken about your boy from men who make or made a living in the game . So stop being Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory and get real. Did I mention anything about Pineda ???? And Pineda according to some who actually saw him throw last summer say he was bring it !!!! Tanaka throws a very ordinary fastball and if he’s having an off splitter day he’s toast by the 4th inning.

  92. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    Glenn-

    You moderate in my absence.

    Keep things tidy and moving along.

    Just like one of the lines at those factories you visit.

    ;)

  93. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 10:55 pm

    By the way, I’ll be in NYC for a stickball tourney, our team is looking for a bat boy, you interested ???? I’ll personally pay you a grand out of my pocket just to meet you and be our caddy

  94. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    Pat M, stop with the insults. Act your age. I really doubt anyone you golf with has even seen Tanaka’s fastball if they think a fastball at 93 with movement is mediocre.

  95. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 10:59 pm

    I know it’s not possible but I would love to hear CB and SJ’s opinion on MT.

  96. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    Mike – thats a tall order in this place! :)

  97. Triple Short of a Cycle January 18th, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    Just about all the talk about Tanaka today is still pretty much the same that I heard the other day. Cubs will out spend any club, Dodgers are likely the landing spot but Kuroda keeps the Yanks in the game, maybe

    ————————————

    The Yanks bid the same as the Cubs, also how are the Dodgers the likely landing spot? You sound as credible as Lost

  98. MTU January 18th, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Glenn-

    You can handle it.

    ;)

  99. wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Here’s the report that was run in MLBTR:

    Clubs angling to sign Masahiro Tanaka made formal offers by Jan. 16, Nikkan Sports reports (Japanese link). The list of teams includes the Yankees, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, White Sox and Cubs, with nearly all clubs putting together offers worth more than $100MM over six years.

    Here’s the report in Nikkan Sports that the MLBTR report was based on:

    A number of teams, which could include the Yankees, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, White Sox, and Cubs, submitted formal contract offers to Tanaka up through to the 16th US time (17th Japan time). Almost all teams probably submitted nine-figure deals at six years. [Nikkan Sports 1/18/2014]

    The context of the MLBTR report ignores the doubt and conjecture included in the original report. “Could”, “probably”?

    Typical, shoddy reporting leads to worse rumors. Tsk, tsk.

  100. Yankee Trader January 18th, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    Good night.

    Maybe Tanaka will be on the JAL flight Monday morning (Japan time) out of Narita Airport on his way to New York City.

  101. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:03 pm

    Hey Sheldon, his fast really doesn’t have much movement. His game is all revolving around his split. He falls behind the count he doesn’t possess a Schilling heater to get guys out. Great control, yes but he’s not a number 2 guy in fact if he does sign with the Dodgers, he could be their # 4 maybe even 5…..

  102. Triple Short of a Cycle January 18th, 2014 at 11:06 pm

    Hey Pat didn’t you say the same thing about Darvish? No way would he be a a top of the rotation guy?

  103. oak2455 January 18th, 2014 at 11:06 pm

    wanz where are you getting this info…..I don’t doubt you, just wondering

  104. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 11:08 pm

    I mean I guess you want to be banned? Seriously lay off the grade school shtick. I don’t know why you can’t just stick to baseball.

    His fastball does have movement and he also possesses a 2-seam fastball which he can still run at 89-92. Here enjoy this 4seam fastball with good movement: http://itsaboutthemoney.net/wo.....erts11.gif

  105. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 11:09 pm

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....to-tanaka/

    Here are a bunch more Tanaka pitches with their movement values laid out. Basically the comparison to Pineda was simple. If Tanaka’s fastball is ‘mediocre at best’ then 99% of baseball starters have a fastball that is mediocre at best. Which we know is not the case.

  106. bbb51 January 18th, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    Kuroda’s fastball last year average only 90.6 mph. 3.31 ERA. You don’t need to throw hard to pitch well.

  107. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 11:15 pm

    Pat M/Jerkface – you guys kill me. I love reading both of your posts…You’ll both probably hate me for saying this but if you ever met, I’d bet you would hit it off. Just my thoughts… Carry on with the sword fight

  108. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:17 pm

    Face, are you telling us that Tanaka’s fastball is on par with Michael Pineda ???? Go have some more sake…..Triple, go back and read my comments about Darvish, I agreed that he had Big League stuff, the question was he worth laying out 120 million dollars for 6-7 years .

  109. Jerkface January 18th, 2014 at 11:20 pm

    Face, are you telling us that Tanaka’s fastball is on par with Michael Pineda ???

    Pineda no longer throws hard. His AAA games did not show improved velocity from where he was at in spring training before he got hurt. How hard do you think Pineda is throwing? How hard do you think Tanaka throws?

    Tanaka does not have a fastball like Pineda had in 2011 but that guy no longer exists. My point in referencing them is that *right now* Pineda throws low 90s and can touch 94-95. Tanaka does that easy with his 4seam.

    You’ve never seen him pitch where as I have because I follow NPB, so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish here.

  110. pat January 18th, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    He needs to own a baseball team….

    mcuban
    Just got word that I got fined 100k for speaking my mind to the officials after our game with the clippers. #moretocome

    mcuban
    I will donate an equal amount to a charity. But Im going to wait till iget 2mm followers. And if you email me you are not eligible.

    mcuban
    I couldnt let the commish go without a proper farewell. Its been a fun 14 years of trying to create change and donating to the donut fund !

  111. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:31 pm

    Chicken Stanley. I admire your Nobel Peace Prize approach, however I have as much use for Jerkface as Joe Torre has for Michael Kay

  112. BoJo January 18th, 2014 at 11:33 pm

    pete2 January 18th, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    IMO the Yankees made an offer to Cano that they knew would likely be topped.
    ====
    I’ve been saying this for some time, but you just said it better. I agree 100% that they didn’t want him, and I think it was about PEDs and conditioning. Cano was not this superstar hitter coming up, and didn’t develop into a slugger until ARod took him under his wings.

  113. Captain Clutch January 18th, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    This sounds more like it….
    ———–

    Gordon Wittenmyer @GDubCub

    Beware reports suggesting Cubs have high offer on table for Tanaka or that he’s favoring Cubs. Multiple sources say Cubs remain long shots.

  114. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Pat M – Lol! I’m a baseball guy… I played until my talent could take me no further… I don’t particularly care for advanced statistics… I believe my eyes above all else. That being said, to me JF brings a different perspective. I was just joking in my earlier post but I really dont think you guys are necessarily on opposite sides… you are both undoubtedly Yankee fans, after all.

    Hope I can continue to converse with the both of you.

  115. yankinvegas January 18th, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    I wouldn’t read anything about the Cano negotiation into the Tanaka negotiation. The Yankees want Tanaka and they did not want Cano for more than 7 years when they knew the market was 10.
    I give the Yankees credit for holding to a figure for Cano and not caving and gettingstuck paying big money to a player ate age 38,39 and 40.
    If Tanaka prefers the Dodgers, oh well, that’s business in the big boy pool. Eventually, the Dodgers will get burned by all of their contracts and they will be the ones cutting payroll.
    In order I would like Garza, Jimenez with zero interest in Arroyo or E. Santana.
    Sign Tanaka and let’s roll or else sign Garza + Balfour and play ball.
    Until they get to ST, no one here knows what to expect from Tanaka or Pineda. We’re just going to have to wait and see.

  116. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    Dodgers are dropping well over 40 million dollars in contacts after the 2014 season. They’ll be coining up to 22 plus for Hanley and still have room for whatever they want.. Their new TV deal virtually covers their payroll……Then they’ll lead the game in attendance, lot’s of dough for them

  117. Revenge of Stoneburner January 18th, 2014 at 11:53 pm

    Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:48 pm
    Dodgers are dropping well over 40 million dollars in contacts after the 2014 season. They’ll be coining up to 22 plus for Hanley and still have room for whatever they want.. Their new TV deal virtually covers their payroll……Then they’ll lead the game in attendance, lot’s of dough for them

    Kershaw’s 30 million kicks in next year

  118. chicken_stanley January 18th, 2014 at 11:54 pm

    He needs to own a baseball team….

    ——————

    from what I’ve read, he wants to own a team, but the old guard will absolutely not let him join the party

  119. Pat M. January 18th, 2014 at 11:59 pm

    Stoneburner…. Clayton’s 19 million dollar raise is almost offset by the departing Josh Beckett’s contract

  120. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 12:05 am

    “they did not want Cano for more than 7 years when they knew the market was 10″

    Was there any other team besides Seattle even bidding? I mean they set the market in this case, but I’m not sure there was an actual market at 10 years so much as one bidder willing to blow the market away.

    “Pineda no longer throws hard.”

    Oh, please. He averaged 94 before and was sitting at 93 in May. Sitting at 93 is still throwing hard.

    “Todays stupid contract is tomorrows league standard deal.”

    Overpays tend to carry forward and hurt teams’ ability to spend. The Rockies signed Hampton to something like an 8 years $120 million deals way back in 2000, which is barely below today’s prices.

  121. pete2 January 19th, 2014 at 12:07 am

    I wonder if Tanakas wife gave us a clue when she said “its a goal, not a mandate” of her preference for the West Coast.

    Dodgers also have to consider the fact Greinke has an opt out after 2015. Greinke could be in a for a bigger pay day and maybe Tanaka is a cheaper option for them, and an option that generates more revenue.

  122. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:11 am

    Ted – as for hampton’s contract – 8/140 = 15 AAV. At the time, Hampton was considered a premier pitcher. A 15 mil AAV would be an absolute bargain for a premier pitcher today.

  123. wanzies222 January 19th, 2014 at 12:14 am

    oak2455 -

    The summaries from the Japanese press come from this site:

    http://yakyubaka.com/tag/masahiro-tanaka/

    There are no credible sources that there have been five offers submitted. The MLBTR report is a shoddy interpretation of the Nikkan Sports story, which included the words “could” and “probably”, which MLBTR chose to omit.

    No information has been released or leaked from Tanaka’s agent; anything to the contrary is mere speculation.

  124. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:19 am

    There are no credible sources that there have been five offers submitted. The MLBTR report is a shoddy interpretation of the Nikkan Sports story, which included the words “could” and “probably”,

    ———————-

    I hate to speak for other posters but I think Blake would agree with me that “could” should be replaced with “might could” :D

  125. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 12:22 am

    120/8 = 15. Hampton was #20 in fWAR the three seasons before Colorado signed him, so not all that premier. It may be below the prices you’d pay for someone like that today, but it’s 13 years later. That’s not tomorrow’s contract, it’s over 150% of the contract’s length.

    The point was that the contract didn’t somehow become a good value as it wore on. I can give you dozens of other examples if you don’t like Hampton.

  126. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 12:23 am

    wanzies222 January 18th, 2014 at 10:21 pm

    So, what’s the good news in this latest report?

    How about no Rangers and no Mariners?

    ============

    Now that was funny ! !

  127. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:24 am

    edit – 8/120 not 8/140

  128. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 12:26 am

    It’s like saying “hey sign Tanaka today, because by 2027 that’s going to be a really nice value.”

  129. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:29 am

    Ted – I don’t care to look anything up at this point… fWar didn’t exist in 2000. Hampton was, make no mistake, considered a premier pitcher. So, I guess my only option is to have you give me the dozens of other examples. Have at it

  130. oak2455 January 19th, 2014 at 12:30 am

    thanks Wanz!!!!

  131. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 12:31 am

    Ole Jack Z get cold feet ?

    Isn’t this the last year of his contract ?

    Can they jump over the A’s, Angels and Rangers ? Probably not after 4 straight sub .500 seasons

    Adding Morrison and Hart ?? LOL !

    He is toast after this year imo

  132. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 12:33 am

    chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:29 am

    LOL ! Nice ! :lol:

  133. Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 12:33 am

    Oh, please. He averaged 94 before and was sitting at 93 in May. Sitting at 93 is still throwing hard.

    He averaged 94.7 for an entire season, then ‘sat 93′ for one extended spring training game that the Yankees tweeted about, and then didn’t sit 93 for any of his AAA starts that were on milb.tv. Pineda is not close to where he was in 2011 where nearly 20% of the pitches he threw were above 97 mph and he averaged 95 mph on his 4seamer. Its ok though, his fastball was still above average, and if you want to say he throws hard then ok, that means Tanaka throws hard as well which is fine for the point I was making.

  134. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:37 am

    Deal – sounds like a little bit of sour grapes to me. :D All joking aside, Jack Z seems to be grasping at straws

  135. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 12:40 am

    “Ted – I don’t care to look anything up at this point… fWar didn’t exist in 2000. Hampton was, make no mistake, considered a premier pitcher. So, I guess my only option is to have you give me the dozens of other examples. Have at it”

    Do you actually disagree with my point that a bad contract rarely looks good in hindsight due to inflation, or do you just want to argue semantics about exactly how “premier” Mike Hampton was considered to be 13 years ago? As I’ve already said, how far below market Hampton’s deal is in nominal terms 5 years after it expires is irrelevant to the conversation. I called it “barely below market price today” and if you really want to quibble over how far below market it is, have at it. You can have a nice conversation with yourself.

  136. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 12:42 am

    Chicken:

    Yeah, that Washington Post article several weeks back really shed some interesting light on the M’s and how ole Jack Z treats people.

    Did you catch that article ?

  137. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Ted–You frequently mention that (to paraphrase liberally) people need to look at things in context–which I agree with.

    So, in discussing the Hampton situation, it is also important to look at context as to whether the price rise over the past 13 years will carry forward at the same increase rate. I tend to think it will not.

    Several factors lead me to believe that salaries will escalate faster. First, the revenues are dramatically increasing due to new distribution channels (Internet and TV deals). Second, the new posting laws which free up new talent but also raise the stakes. Third, the influx of Cuban players who are also not tied down by drafts.

    I guess that a $29M contract will be AAV average in 5=6 years because of these factors. Just my opinion.

  138. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 12:46 am

    Pardon—$20M not $29M,,,typo

  139. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 12:48 am

    Chicken:

    Seattle Times, sorry. Here is the link if your interested.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/m.....08xml.html

  140. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 12:50 am

    Actually, perhaps I am confused about your last post. Are you saying that hampton’s contract was bad at the time because he was not a premier pitcher? And therefore his contract would never look good regardless of inflation?

  141. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 12:51 am

    “if you want to say he throws hard then ok, that means Tanaka throws hard as well which is fine for the point I was making.”

    I didn’t respond to anything you said about Tanaka. I responded to what you said about Pineda, that he doesn’t throw hard anymore. In late July reports still had him at 93-95 MPH in Scranton. That is hard for a SP.

    Furthermore, how he threw in his first year back from shoulder surgery is not necessarily an indication of how he’ll throw going forward. Anibal Sanchez, for example, gained 1.6 mph on his FB from when he first came back from a similar injury in 2008 to his first full season back in 2010. Pineda could easily pick up a mph or two in 2014.

  142. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:53 am

    Ted – Hampton was considered a premier pitcher when he was signed… no arguments, correct? Things happen, injuries, ineffectiveness, whatever. The Hampton contract was a disaster, no doubt about it. BUT… Had Hampton performed to expectations, would it have been a bargain in todays dollars… I think so. Inflation of contracts is is a given… at some point the bubble will burst but it hasn’t to this point

  143. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 12:56 am

    Deal – thanks for the link

  144. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:00 am

    BoJo,

    My point was that once Hampton’s contract was exposed as bad value, it didn’t suddenly become good value over time due to inflation. Hampton was just the first example that popped into my head. AJ Burnett’s contract, as another example, didn’t become a good deal over time. The Yankees had to eat the vast majority of it to move him. Igawa’s contract didn’t become a good value. Again, there are dozens upon dozens of examples, Hampton was nothing more than one example of a bad contract that hurt a team’s ability to improve itself.

    I don’t think contract inflation will increase going forward any more than it has in the past. I don’t think the Japanese posting system will have any real impact on MLB contracts. Once Tanaka signs, there is no other elite Japanese player on the horizon that I’m aware of. Maeda is considered the #2 P in Japan, and he’s considered a back-end MLB SP at best. I don’t think that there’s a ton of talent waiting in Cuba either, as I think a lot of it has recently come to the US. While the TV deals could inflate salaries, I don’t think there’s pent up money there. MLB teams just got a $20 mill increase for national games and a lot of big market teams are locked into TV deals.

  145. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:06 am

    chicken,

    I don’t know what your points about Hampton have to do with my points about Hampton. You seem to have misconstrued what I said to pick a fight.

    I never said anything about when Hampton signed. I said that once it was a bad deal it didn’t become a better deal. I only mentioned todays prices to show what a bad deal it was. Not because prices 5 years after the deal expired have anything to do with the deal itself. (As an example, AJ Burnett was #19 in fWAR the 3 seasons before FA and signed for, what, $18 mill per right around when Hampton expired which is all of $3 mill per more.) I also never said that inflation isn’t a real thing, I just said that it’s not a large enough factor to make bad deals become good deals in a matter of a few years. Or “tomorrow” as the original comment I resounded to said.

    Can we stop wasting time yet?

  146. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:10 am

    My point was that once Hampton’s contract was exposed as bad value, it didn’t suddenly become good value over time due to inflation. Hampton was just the first example that popped into my head. AJ Burnett’s contract, as another example, didn’t become a good deal over time. The Yankees had to eat the vast majority of it to move him. Igawa’s contract didn’t become a good value. Again, there are dozens upon dozens of examples, Hampton was nothing more than one example of a bad contract that hurt a team’s ability to improve itself.

    ————————–

    Ted – all you’ve done is show contracts that are bad due to performance, not inflation. Had Hampton, AJ, or Igawa performed up to expectations then the contracts would be considered ok. At this point, i’m not sure what I’m arguing about… Pitchers that crash and burn, crash and burn… but its not an inflationary issue. G

  147. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 1:13 am

    Tanaka is projected to be a solid # 3 starting pitcher in the AL. A very expensive # 3 and if he does end up in Chavez Ravine he’ll be the most expensive # 4 / 5 in the history of baseball…..To a particular Lohuder ” Made in Japan ” to him means much more to him than most. I agree with Ted’s premise about the overvalued contracts and how many of them will play out. Pitching is the most valued commodity in the game ( always has been ) and clubs roll the dice with lot’s of bank on the table…..Tanaka is a fine example, because this cat has never pitched in a Big League game.

  148. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:13 am

    “At this point, i’m not sure what I’m arguing about… Pitchers that crash and burn, crash and burn… but its not an inflationary issue.”

    Clearly you don’t know what you’re arguing about, which is making this a huge waste of my time. In the future, when you pick an argument with someone try to have some idea of what they’re talking about.

    I responded to a comment that today’s bad contract is tomorrow’s solid deal (or something like that). It is entirely an inflationary issue. You are trying to argue with me about things I never said and a topic no one is talking about but you. Please stop.

  149. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:15 am

    oops… hit return before I meant to

    Ted – not looking for a fight… my only point is that bad deals are primarily due to performance, not inflation. Had any of the pitchers you mentioned performed up to expectations there would be no discussion of bad contracts or excessive AAV

  150. jpmatrixfan88 January 19th, 2014 at 1:17 am

    Jerkface, how can you say Pineda hasn’t improved since getting hurt? He was throwing 89-91 with us in spring training sometimes worse. Now he sits 92-93 and touches 95. That’s clearb improvement.

  151. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:23 am

    Ted – Its also abundantly clear that you have no idea what you are arguing about. I’m awaiting your dozens of examples…

    You wonder why you have so much negative feedback here? Take a minute to review our comments on this thread… If you determine that I’m an ass, I’ll be happy to apologize again.

  152. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:23 am

    I don’t know what your points about Hampton have to do with my points about Hampton. You seem to have misconstrued what I said to pick a fight.
    ———–
    Ted complaining about someone wanted to pick a fight… Priceless!

  153. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:24 am

    “Tanaka is projected to be a solid # 3 starting pitcher in the AL.”

    I don’t think that’s really the case. There were some early rumblings that he was a “mid-rotiation SP” but more recently he’s been talked about in a much more favorable light. Including stats showing he is the best NPB P ever to come over to MLB. A #3 SP would be about #90 in MLB. By fWAR, over the past three years that would make Tanaka worth 1.5 fWAR per. About in line with guys like Jason Vargas, Feldman, Hughes, and Ervin Santana. He’s expected to get at least 3-4x the total money Vargas and Feldman got, 4-5x Hughes’ total money, so clearly the market is valuing him as much better than those mid-rotation guys.

  154. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 1:29 am

    Chicken:

    Lots of intensity in some of these posts (not urs), a bit too much for my liking.

    Catch u manana (just not during the 49er game)

    Out

  155. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:31 am

    Tanaka is projected to be a solid # 3 starting pitcher in the AL. A very expensive # 3 and if he does end up in Chavez Ravine he’ll be the most expensive # 4 / 5 in the history of baseball…..
    ————
    The general consensus I’ve read seems to project Tanaka as a #2 with a lower end ace upside and a middle of the rotation floor. Don’t recall reading too many scouting reports projecting him to just be a solid #3.

  156. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 1:31 am

    pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:23 am

    Seems to be more often than not ……………..

  157. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:31 am

    ” my only point is that bad deals are primarily due to performance, not inflation.”

    Again, this has nothing at all to do with the conversation you chose to enter. I never said anything about what causes bad contracts. I said that bad contracts don’t become good contracts due to inflation. You chose to enter the conversation, yet you still don’t know what it’s about even after I’ve told you like 5 times now.

    “Had any of the pitchers you mentioned performed up to expectations there would be no discussion of bad contracts or excessive AAV”

    This has nothing to do with any of my points. Nothing at all.

    “Its also abundantly clear that you have no idea what you are arguing about. I’m awaiting your dozens of examples…”

    I’m not arguing with you about anything. I’m trying to explain to you what we were talking about before you barged in and picked a fight. I know very well what I was talking about. That bad deals don’t become good deals due to inflation.

    “You wonder why you have so much negative feedback here?”

    No. Never once have I wondered why I get negative feedback.

    “Take a minute to review our comments on this thread…”

    I don’t need to review anything. You started an argument when you had no idea what I was talking about. Even after I’ve told you multiple times, you still don’t seem to understand what I was talking about. Whether you’re an ass or an idiot, I don’t really know or care. I just wish you would stop wasting my time arguing about nothing.

  158. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:33 am

    Deal – I’m not hard to get along with… really! :)

    I’ll be sure to post/email you during the game! :) just joking… enjoy the game!!

  159. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 1:34 am

    “Ted complaining about”

    You don’t seem to know what complaining is.

  160. Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 1:36 am

    Jerkface, how can you say Pineda hasn’t improved since getting hurt? He was throwing 89-91 with us in spring training sometimes worse. Now he sits 92-93 and touches 95. That’s clearb improvement.

    Maybe he was at 89-91 in the beginning of spring training but by the time he got hurt he was 91-93 and thats what I saw when he was in AAA this summer.

  161. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 1:38 am

    I can’t go into deep details about this however someone who is very familiar with the Yanks organization , says they ( Yanks ) have only themselves to blame regarding their pitching woes. Five years ago they had three pitchers who most clubs would have loved to have only to have completely glitched their development. So now they have to once again buy their way out this mess……Those guys will rebound and have fine careers and one will make a case for comeback player in 2014

  162. Deal With It January 19th, 2014 at 1:40 am

    Chicken:

    Ur easy ! ! Oops …….. :lol:

    To get along with that is ! !

  163. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:43 am

    Ted–thanks for the reply. We agree—a bad contract is a bad contract.

    I understand that your point has nothing to do with any other issue raised here, nor are you making any other claim.

    Thanks for the clarity.

  164. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:43 am

    Ted – you are my hero. I don’t want to waste your time. I am so far beneath your train of thought that I don’t even realize you’ve put me in my place multiple times…. I started the argument… I am an ass and an idiot… please forgive me, Lord Ted.

    Seriously, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt even when many of my friends bashed you… Maybe I’m at fault for our “disagreement”… but I’m probably one of the most tolerant posters on the board…. you future here doesn’t look particularly bright.

  165. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:44 am

    I just wish you would stop wasting my time arguing about nothing.
    ——-
    Chicken… I hope you read this carefully… Ted’s Lohud commenting time is very valuable and it is not to be wasted on a peanut brain like you… Please refrain from wasting Ted’s all-knowing brilliance in the future!

  166. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 1:44 am

    pkyankeefan……Well maybe he’ll be a 2 in an average rotation but we’ll find out. The curious question is this, if the posting system hadn’t change would MLB clubs be lining his pockets with 18-20 million per season ?????

  167. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:45 am

    Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 1:38 am
    ===
    I blame Billy Eppier.

  168. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:47 am

    pkyank – my peanut brain is overheated… I need a beer!

  169. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:48 am

    chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:43 am
    =======
    Are you being sarcastic in the first paragraph or the second?

  170. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:50 am

    Bojo – your choice :D

  171. Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 1:50 am

    The curious question is this, if the posting system hadn’t change would MLB clubs be lining his pockets with 18-20 million per season ?????

    Is this really a curious question? Of course he would not get as big a contract because he’d have no leverage. If he only had 1 team to negotiate with he would likely make the same 9-10 AAV that Darvish/Matsuzaka got. Matsuzaka and Darvish would have gotten huge deals if they could negotiate with anyone they wanted to.

  172. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:52 am

    If the posting system hadn’t changed Tanaka wouldn’t have a snowballs chance in hell at getting $20M a year… The posting fee + his contract would likely make it $20M+ per year but not what Tanaka would actually get paid… If it had been the old system the posting fee would have been nuts, I bet it would have reached $70M – $80M…. Total contract something along the lines of 6 years – $60M with the posting fee on top of that so in total 6 years – $130M – $140M… Just guessing of course… Considering the LT it’s a shame for the Yanks it changed.

  173. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:53 am

    chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:50 am
    Bojo – your choice :D
    ===
    Make mine Jack Daniels then (please).

  174. Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 1:54 am

    Considering the LT it’s a shame for the Yanks it changed.

    I think the new system benefits the Yankees. They no longer have to worry about another team out bidding them to gain exclusive rights. If the Yankees had the stones to use their 1 advantage they could conceivably sign anyone who posts.

  175. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:55 am

    Bojo – you’re an idiot (said as a compliment) :)

  176. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:55 am

    Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 1:50 am

    Is this really a curious question? Of course he would not get as big a contract because he’d have no leverage. If he only had 1 team to negotiate with he would likely make the same 9-10 AAV that Darvish/Matsuzaka got. Matsuzaka and Darvish would have gotten huge deals if they could negotiate with anyone they wanted to.
    ==
    This is what i am talking about when i say the change in posting system will be a factor in driving up contracts at a faster rate. If a unknown potential #3 pitcher gets $120/6, what is a Jimenez worth?

  177. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:56 am

    :-)

  178. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 1:58 am

    And I am not saying Jimenez is wortht he same as a 25 year old who also may have upside….that is not my point. But it does drive his price higher…which is why the pitchers are waiting for Tanaka to set the market.

  179. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 1:58 am

    Chicken,

    My peanut brain is still recovering from an open bar in AC last night… No beer today but I would imagine I can sneak a few in for the championship games tomorrow.

    I cannot wait for the games tomorrow… 2 great match ups… Very possibly the last time we get to see Brady V Manning in a big playoff game followed by 2 division rivals that play hard nose football and absolutely hate each other.

  180. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:59 am

    Mike – if you see this when you wake up… I’m not a moderator, I apparently need to be moderated!

  181. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:00 am

    chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 1:55 am
    Bojo – you’re an idiot (said as a compliment) :)

    I am picturing this being said by William Shatner and then Christopher Walken….

  182. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 2:01 am

    Pkyank – AC?… looking forward to the games tomorrow… One of the few Sundays I’m not traveling… I plan on taking “couch potato” to an entirely new level!

  183. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:02 am

    In fact, I think everyone here on Lohud would enjoy Ted’s comments more if the pictured William Shatner or Christopher Walken reading them aloud.

    Yeah, go ahead and try one. You know you want to,,,

  184. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 2:02 am

    Bojo – I’m convinced you have a Shatner fixation (which is not an entirely a bad thing) :)

  185. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 2:03 am

    BoJo……You can touch em all, because you just nailed it…..

  186. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 2:06 am

    My whole point is this, Yankee fans are expecting for Tanaka to have the same impact that CC Sabatia had or Catfish Hunter had and they’re going to be greatly disappointed

  187. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 2:06 am

    Pat M… I guess this is the point that you tell me that Ted and I would really hit it off if we met :)

  188. pkyankfan69 January 19th, 2014 at 2:07 am

    Atlantic City… Once 3 O’clock rolls around tomorrow I will be right there with ya… Just need to get the pup tired before then so I can watch in peace.

  189. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:07 am

    Chicken…I would give your right arm to be able toot do a good impersonation of Christopher Walken and William Shatner. They could crack me up just by reading the phone book. The one-on-one interview show Shatner had a few years back had me rolling with laughter listening to him talk.

  190. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 2:09 am

    Bojo – have you ever seen the family guy episode with Shatner? If not, see if you can find it on youtube… priceless!!

  191. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:11 am

    Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 2:06 am
    My whole point is this, Yankee fans are expecting for Tanaka to have the same impact that CC Sabatia had or Catfish Hunter had and they’re going to be greatly disappointed

    I really don’t understand the expectations of many here that Yankees will be a contender with Tanaka but not without him. This is a flawed team, and one pitcher probably won’t be enough to take them all the way.

    Having said that, it would be nice to add another young arm with upside potential…but I don’t expect him to go 24-0 in 2014.

  192. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:13 am

    Chicken–I’ll check it out! Thanks for the heads up.

  193. chicken_stanley January 19th, 2014 at 2:14 am

    Gonna call it a night… Syonara Pat M/Bojo/Pkyank/Ted/whoever else is out there… catch you tomorrow

  194. BoJo January 19th, 2014 at 2:15 am

    Me too. Good night all.

  195. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 2:28 am

    BoJo……A healthy Michael Pineda will do more for the Yanks rotation than Tanaka will. Goodnight all and good morning to Doreen and her Breakfast club. Chicken Stanley ,… as for your 2:06 comment, I’m not a UN Consult nor do I have ambitions to win The Nobel Peace Prize. Hell, just follow my and Face’s lead and entertain and amuse the blog

  196. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 2:35 am

    “Maybe I’m at fault for our “disagreement”…”

    There was no disagreement on my end. You disagreed with a point that I never made, and even though I kept telling you that I never made it you just kept talking about it. You can try to make it into something else or make me look like the bad guy, but that’s all that happened.

    “Those guys will rebound and have fine careers and one will make a case for comeback player in 2014″

    What does IPK’s need to rebound have to do with the Yankees at this point? Very doubtful that Joba will rebound to be a SP at this point. Hughes may rebound, but he rebounded a few times in NY as well.

    “If the posting system hadn’t changed Tanaka wouldn’t have a snowballs chance in hell at getting $20M a year”

    That’s the money that one player gets (and as you yourself said it doesn’t actually reflect an increase in team spending, only where that spending goes). It is not reflective of inflation in MLB contracts in general. There aren’t a bunch of Tanaka’s in Japan just waiting to come over to MLB and make $120 million.

  197. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 2:43 am

    “First its ‘oh no the cubs wanted to pay tanaka a lot of money’ then its ‘oh no the red sox wanted to pay mike trout a lot of money’ and then ‘oh no the tigers wanted to pay bryce harper a lot of money’.

    The only guys they will get are players that arent even that wanted. No one was fiercely bidding for Ellsbury or McCann.”

    If the Yankees don’t sign Tanaka, they will never sign Mike Trout or Bryce Harper!!! The logical leap there is just incredible.

  198. Jerkface January 19th, 2014 at 2:45 am

    A healthy Michael Pineda will do more for the Yanks rotation than Tanaka will.

    I think you might be the only person in the world who believes this. I doubt even Michael Pineda himself thinks he would provide more for the Yankees next year than Masahiro Tanaka. He has barely pitched in the past 2 years and is coming off a major injury, how exactly would he do more for the Yankees than Tanaka? For starters if the Yankees do sign Tanaka then he instantly moves into their rotation and can be counted on for 180+ innings. Pineda is going to be on an innings limit most likely and hasnt even started for 2 years.

  199. Ted Nelson January 19th, 2014 at 2:56 am

    “I think you might be the only person in the world who believes this.”

    I don’t think it’s a given by any means and I wouldn’t even call it the most likely case, but it’s certainly very much within the realm of possibility. Pat M is being extreme in one direction, but you seem to be just as extreme in the other direction.

    “He has barely pitched in the past 2 years and is coming off a major injury, how exactly would he do more for the Yankees than Tanaka?”

    Because he’s supposedly healthy now and has recovered from surgery. Maybe it won’t be this season, but there’s reason to think he’ll come back. Anibal Sanchez supposedly had the most similar injury to Pineda’s of any P and put up a 4.2 fWAR season when he made it all the way back 3 years later.

    “Pineda is going to be on an innings limit most likely”

    Based on what? He’s 25 years old (connective tissue formed) and rehabbed for 15 months. Perhaps he will be limited as he comes back, but if he’s fully healthy like they say he is then he probably won’t be.

  200. Pat M. January 19th, 2014 at 3:04 am

    LA Lakers are having a dreadful season, one that might end with a losing record for only the 7th time since 1960 !!!!!!!!! That’s an amazing , 1 losing season per decade for 7 decades. Pineda is going to make my point rather clear by June

  201. RadioKev January 19th, 2014 at 6:49 am

    6/120 was never going to get it done for Tanaka. Seems like that was the consensus contract, which means you have to outbid the benchmark. If the Yankees scouting department is worth a damn and they like the guy enough to take a risk, they should sign him.

    I do think much more than 7/180 is near albatross levels.

    And yeah… I’d bet on Tanaka outproducing Michael Pineda next year.

  202. GregD January 19th, 2014 at 6:57 am

    I still have reservations about Tanaka and giving him a huge contract……….if the Yankees sign him and he doesn’t turn out to be an ace…….or close to it……..then they are stuck with another huge contract………and despite what some think, I don’t think the Yankees have no end to their ability to spend……

  203. blake January 19th, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Who is Michael Pineda?

  204. Against All Odds January 19th, 2014 at 7:41 am

    Based on the fact that it’s the Yankees and they are more than likely going to take the conservative approach when it comes to MP. Now I’m not saying they’ll cap his innings at 130 or 140 but even if he is healthy I see them restricting his innings even if it’s a little bit. He means so much to their present and future.

  205. austinmac January 19th, 2014 at 7:43 am

    Pineda was a fantasy player who throws 97. Is he now a non-change up throwing guy with a 92 mph fastball? I have no idea if the fantasy guy will ever play again. It would be nice to have someone work out.

  206. austinmac January 19th, 2014 at 7:46 am

    Remember the good old days when people thought Tanaka would decide by last Friday so he come come the his physical? Now, maybe next Friday?

    Is it really true all teams are relying on the doctors selected by Close, albeit good ones, to do the physical with so much money involved? That seems extraordinary.

  207. Ys Guy January 19th, 2014 at 7:49 am

    it all comes down to which scouts you believe. if he’s a #2/3 hes definitely not worth what he’ll get.

    if he’s an ace, he’s worth it. i have no way of knowing so im just a spectator i dont know anything about the guy and i can deal with whichever way it goes.

  208. blake January 19th, 2014 at 7:53 am

    As I’ve said before there are two things I like about Tanaka that make me believe he can be more than just a 2 or 3 in MLB…..one is his fastball command , the other is his split. I’ve seen video of his splitter and it looks very very good….late breakin with extreme vertical movement and thrown from the same arm slot as his fastball. MLB hitters have trouble with all splitters right now…..I suspect they’ll have nightmares about his.

  209. blake January 19th, 2014 at 7:54 am

    Also his age of course in that he still could get better at age 25

  210. blake January 19th, 2014 at 8:00 am

    @pgammo: As Tanaka bidding(NYY,LAD,ChiC&WS, Ariz) winds down, new posting system gets small markets revenue sharing $, 0 shot at top Japanese players

    Somebody please call the whambalance. Good grief…..first the small market clubs whine because they can’t compete on the posting fee…..now they are going to complain that they can’t compete on the contract. What do they want? For MLB to give them some coupons to use?

  211. Against All Odds January 19th, 2014 at 8:06 am

    Pat M made a good point at 1:38. The fact that the Yankees need Tanaka this badly shows how poor their pitching development has been. No one is saying they should produce aces every yr or have guys ready to step in and be top 15 pitchers in baseball but at some point the plan was to have a stockpile of pitching be a pipeline to the big club and it all honesty it hasn’t been that.

  212. blake January 19th, 2014 at 8:20 am

    I think its assumed that everyone develops pitching but the Yankees though….they don’t and it’s not really that easy. There are only a handful of teams that actually develop pitching well…..and most of those had the benefit of drafting 1 or more can’t miss guys highs in the first round.

    The tigers probably had the best rotation in the AL last year….Verlander was a can’t miss high draft pick….they traded for Scherzer, traded for Fister, and signed Sanchez as a FA.

  213. blake January 19th, 2014 at 8:24 am

    @Buster_ESPN: A teammate says of a Red Sox prospect: He’s the next Kershaw. http://t.co/9fLpEDGuIg

    Here we go

  214. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Can Tanaka just get this over with sign with the NYY because that’s what he’s going to do anyways…NYY need to sign Balfour if he’s healthy

  215. blake January 19th, 2014 at 8:26 am

    joeman says:
    January 19, 2014 at 8:25 am
    Can Tanaka just get this over with sign with the NYY because that’s what he’s going to do anyways…NYY need to sign Balfour if he’s healthy

    I thought you said he wasn’t coming to NY ;)

  216. dan l January 19th, 2014 at 8:30 am

    joeman…why Balfour? He is just not that good on the road…his home parks have been pitchers parks.

  217. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:30 am

    C&P…Owens

    Scouting Report: Left-hander with an excellent frame, but needs to add strength. Loose thrower with low energy when expending delivery from 3/4 arm slot. Possesses an 88-92 mph fastball with late tail. Inconsitantly tops out at 94 mph. Potential to add sitting velocity with physical development. Below-average fastball command. Needs to fine tune command and pitchability in early pro career. 74-76 mph curveball shows deep break and hard bite. Finishes the pitch well to create consistent snap. Commands offering well, with ability to throw for strikes. Plus-to-better potential. Also throws his curve slower at 66-69 mph to pick up strikes. Loose and on the loopy side. Low-80s changeup grades as above-average, having improved quite a bit in his early yeats. Feels pitch well, but can leave it up in the zone where it tends to float. Needs work finishing consistently. Deceptive delivery. Hides fastball well in motion causing it to jump on opposing hitters. Mature demeanor on mound. Needs to put on weight to handle rigors of starting as a professional and build stamina to hold stuff deep into games. Highly projectable. Ceiling of a second/third starter on a first-division team.

  218. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:33 am

    dan l January 19th, 2014 at 8:30 am
    joeman…why Balfour? He is just not that good on the road…his home parks have been pitchers parks.
    —————————————————————-
    just a fall back for DRob..multiple nights closing..can’t do the job…injury

  219. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:35 am

    blake January 19th, 2014 at 8:26 am
    joeman says:
    January 19, 2014 at 8:25 am
    Can Tanaka just get this over with sign with the NYY because that’s what he’s going to do anyways…NYY need to sign Balfour if he’s healthy

    I thought you said he wasn’t coming to NY ;)
    ——————————————————————

    was a big no back in late November…NYY interest grew so did mine…

  220. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Good morning Tanaka watchers.

    Many good points made here last night on both sides of the equation.

  221. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:44 am

    Pineda can be successful with diminished velo but he is going to have to work his CU in more to do it.

    He won’t able to simply overpower guys as before.

    His delivery is a violent one and will be a cause for continued concern going forward.

    And yes. He is definitely going to be on an innings count this season.

  222. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Joeman-

    Keep your eyes on the prize.

    :)

  223. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:46 am

    MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:45 am
    Joeman-

    Keep your eyes on the prize.

    :)
    ——————————
    trying to….

  224. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:48 am

    And the question of whether or not MT will be able to fulfill the price of his contract is a very real one.

    He’ll have a huge burden on him.

    Heavy lies the head that wears the crown.

    ;)

  225. Against All Odds January 19th, 2014 at 8:48 am

    True the Yankees aren’t the only team that can’t develop pitchers but after nine yrs the results haven’t been what they felt it should be.

  226. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Joeman-

    Stay focused.

    Imagine you were working in the bucket.

    ;)

  227. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:51 am

    more than half way thru the month I hate the most….expecting another artic front to move into the northeast in a couple of days and it’s going to hang out till the end of month…no major snow storms coming so that’s a good thing just a couple of clippers..

  228. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:52 am

    I have heard the criticism of the Yankees development screw-ups from several sources.

    They agree.

    One of the reasons I find myself SMH that more people at the MiLB level didn’t feel the axe.

    Newman, in particular.

    I’m still hoping that this next group under Patterson and Aldred w do better.

    Banuelos and J-Ram have top of the rotation potential.

    Let’s not mess those 2 up.

    ;)

  229. Tar January 19th, 2014 at 8:52 am

    RE: Tanaka physical

    Not sure why that keeps coming up…. but like when you buy a house there usually is a clause in there “pending inspection”. I would imagine the same thing will be in play with Tanaka, a thorough team physical ( lets hope Ahmad checks both sides of the MRI :wink: ).

    If anything shows up, you can bet the team would renegotiate, or drop out, and MLB would allow it. Teams do that all the time anyway, Napoli last year comes to mind.

  230. oak2455 January 19th, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Good morning it’s almost Festivus !!!!

  231. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 8:54 am

    MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:48 am
    Joeman-

    Stay focused.

    Imagine you were working in the bucket.

    ;)
    ————————————————————-
    for 18 years back when I was younger I was a troubleshooter ( first response) …those night you had to stay focused

  232. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:55 am

    Blake-

    If you have seen video of MT then you know that his Split is practically unhittable.

    His slider is very good too.

    If he comes anywhere close to the way HK tosses the ball he should be terrific.

    Adjusting to the greater workload of ML baseball is another thing he’ll need to learn.

    I said from jump street that having HK as his mentor would be of enormous value.

    If he’s smart he’ll factor things like that seriously into his decision making process.

    It will make his transition a lot easier.

  233. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:57 am

    Joeman-

    Then return to your past Batman.

    Keep your eyes on the prize.

    :)

  234. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 8:59 am

    MT is a Pitcher not a thrower.

    Has all sorts of ways to get batters out.

    :)

  235. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 9:00 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDTRyjMnDOk
    —————————–
    enjoy

  236. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 9:00 am

    15 wins for MT in his rookie season as a Yankee.

    :shock:

  237. joeman January 19th, 2014 at 9:02 am

    For me its a Den..SF Super Bowl

    NE..will have to keep the ball away from PM for any shot

    Sea…really don’t like how the QB is playing

  238. MTU January 19th, 2014 at 9:03 am

    New one———>

    Thanks Joeman. I liked it.

  239. oak2455 January 19th, 2014 at 9:03 am

    It’s almost comical that no one knows what the F is going on ….. Can’t Jeter get some info ;)

  240. joedep January 19th, 2014 at 10:10 am

    Tanaka will end up with the Dodgers! If U don’t think so just ask his wife….Conserative Tanankas will want no part of nutsie liberal NY !!

  241. Poetkiosk January 19th, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    How is LA more conservative? /lol

  242. JQRlJoZou July 30th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    cheap tramadol no prescription buy tramadol online from usa – can you buy tramadol over counter us

  243. Chase Christesen August 23rd, 2014 at 12:18 am

    Relax and no perform!

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