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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Christian Toto

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 25, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Today’s Pinch Hitter is Christian Toto, an award-winning journalist, film critic and radio commentator who blogs about fatherhood issues at Daddylibrium.com. Christian grew up on Long Island and remembers exactly where he watched Bucky Dent go deep in 1978. His favorite Yankees: Bobby Murcer and Hideki Matsui.

As for his blog topic: Can you picture the Bronx Zoo being presented through a filtered image on Instagram?

Reggie JacksonImagine the Tweets Reggie Jackson would have fired off during the heat of a Yankees pennant drive. The “Straw that Stirred the Drink” wore pinstripes in the 1970s, long before social media became part of the culture.

The Bronx Zoo-era Yankees might have crumbled had Jackson and Co. been allowed 140 characters with which to pound their chests, taunt sports reporters or mock their AL East opponents.

As it was, Jackson, Thurman Munson, Billy Martin and the rest of the late ‘70s Yankees kept the tabloids humming without WiFi in the clubhouse. You could never be sure if Martin would be managing the club on any given day based on the previous night’s activities. Jackson might deliver a game-winning home run one day and then bemoan his image to a throng of salivating sports scribes the next. Heck, those two famously brawled one dark day in 1977, a fight that epitomized the combustible nature of the soon-to-be World Champions.

It’s a far cry from the current Yankees squad, players who flex their Twitter might to promote their charitable work and praise fellow teammates. That sense of decorum can be traced back to the dawn of the Joe Torre era. Fans applaud Torre for bringing the World Series back, in duplicate, to the Bronx. The former manager did more than fill in the lineup card properly for 162 games at a clip. He, along with professionals like a young Derek Jeter and Andy Pettitte, restored a sense of honor and purpose to the franchise.

No longer did the Yankees stand for off-the-field shenanigans. Now, the goal was to make the playoffs and earn a parade in the Canyon of Heroes each and every season. Anything that prevented that from happening was an unwanted distraction.

These days, the Yankees’ managerial position isn’t up for grabs on a seasonal basis. Rookies don’t ride the Columbus Shuttle after a ghastly error. Even the current Alex Rodriguez imbroglio, as ugly as anything found in Sparky Lyle’s infamous “The Bronx Zoo” memoir, can’t suspend the sense of purpose found in the modern Bronx Bombers.

No, that drive hasn’t delivered a World Series championship for a few years, and even the free agent signing spree that delivered Brian McCann, Carlos Beltran and Jacoby Ellsbury can’t promise a new dynasty will arise this spring. Still, Yankees fans can hold their head high these days even if baseball snobs still sniff at the thought of the Steinbrenner family “buying” another pennant. New Yorkers know the days of being both enamored with, and embarrassed by, the Bronx Bombers are history.

Associated Press photo

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278 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Christian Toto”

  1. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:06 am

    “Still, Yankees fans can hold their head high these days even if baseball snobs still sniff at the thought of the Steinbrenner family “buying” another pennant. New Yorkers know the days of being both enamored with, and embarrassed by, the Bronx Bombers are history.”

    Adios 189.

    Glad to see Hal flip the rest of baseball the bird.

    ;)

  2. austinmac January 25th, 2014 at 9:11 am

    I hope CC bounces back, not just for the team but because he is a classy guy. He does a lot of good work for people who need help and is a great representative of the Yankees.

    Even putting aside by fandom, I think he will pitch well this year. 18-20 wins.

  3. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:12 am

    We could IF and BP help.

    Finish the job Hal.

    You’re almost there. Don’t stop short.

    :)

  4. austinmac January 25th, 2014 at 9:12 am

    I always loved the days when we “bought” our championships. It is still allowed to buy things with your own money isn’t it? Let’s do more of it.

  5. austinmac January 25th, 2014 at 9:13 am

    MTU,

    Has Wanzies been around or have you heard any rumors?

  6. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:13 am

    Mac-

    The new lean and mean version of CC might surprise a lot of people.

    Let’s hope so.

  7. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Mac-

    For whatever reason he seems to be laying low.

    Haven’t heard anything new from him.

    I hope he decides to pop back in again eventually.

    His input is missed.

  8. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Good morning

    Christian-
    Enjoyed your post. However in reference to Torre-”No longer did the Yankees stand for off-the-field shenanigans. Now, the goal was to make the playoffs and earn a parade in the Canyon of Heroes each and every season. Anything that prevented that from happening was an unwanted distraction.”

    Buck Showalter should be given credit for, pardon the pun, The Buck Stops Here!

  9. austinmac January 25th, 2014 at 9:19 am

    He did have good insight and opinions.

    I wonder if the team is going to do nothing until they see how Jeter, Tex and the rest look in early spring. Of course, solutions may be slim by then. I really do believe Drew would be wonderful insurance at three positions and start where we most need him most.

  10. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:21 am

    I’m twitterless. Where is Shameless?

    Shame- you’ll get a kick out of this:

    http://nomaas.org/2014/01/ron-.....surprised/

  11. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:22 am

    Mac-

    I think the Yankees want to do more but the price has to be right.

    No one greedy from here on out.

    Lot’s of possibilities though. Especially as the days towards ST dwindle.

    I don’t think they will leave any major holes.

    At least I hope not.

    ;)

  12. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Always interesting to read the pinch hitters, thanks. Cliff Johnson is my historical pinch hitter. Cliff was a grumpy looking, but teddy bear figure, and when he was moved, he brought back Tom Henke for me via Texas. Merci, Cliff.

  13. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:26 am

    I’m not on the Stephen Drew Bandwagon. I’d rather the Yankees try and find a young infielder thru trade, and preferably a SS, someone who might be available because they are getting pushed out by someone else.

    Question Is, who might be available?

  14. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:28 am

    Aside from the flurry at the beginning it seems like this OS has been filled w a near endless
    string of delays.

    I’m sure most of us will be glad when ST finally rolls around.

    I know I certainly will be.

  15. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:28 am

    I’m at a toasty 25 today!

    Mac! MTU, Jmills, how about you?

  16. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    YT-

    Haven’t you seen my lists ?

    I’m like a broken record.

    Castro, Owings/gregorius/, Andrus, Franklin, etc.

    Depends on what you have to offer.

    Anyone is available for the right price.

    ;)

  17. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:32 am

    YT-

    Around 60 like it has been for quite a while.

  18. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 9:32 am

    YT, Ron Washington does Stevie Wonder,….sort of?

  19. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Doreen January 25th, 2014 at 8:30 am

    No. Cano likes hitting HRs. He is not merely a product of Kevin Long. Well before he started hitting more HRs in games, Cano liked to display his power in BP. The media always made a point of talking about it. Cano wanted to be in the HR derby a year before he on it, but a slight injury had the Yankeesctprequesting that he not participate. Cano knew the money and fame were for HR hitters, not doubles hitters.

    That being said, I think he has very much continued to hit enough doubles along with the HRs. Cano s a really, really good hitter.
    ///

    I’m not sure there’s a hitter in baseball who considers home runs anathema.

    Cano is a multi-dimensional hitter; he can hit home runs “by mistake” and considering Yankee Stadium’s right field, he has been, outside of stretches in 2012, the model of restraint (in 2012 he was trying to pull the ball into the seats too much), and primarily because he really doesn’t need to cheat for power because of his bat speed, and for the most part, stays within what he does best, which is merely everything, because he can get to any pitch and drive the pitch, to any part of the park, and because he has innate “feel” that is a gift few possess.

    Taking a big cut is also something really good hitters do because they know they can drive that pitch, and I don’t think there is a soul who comprehends how good Cano is who would suggest he lose his aggressiveness.

    Cano maintained that aggressiveness, and put up great OBP and enormous – enormous numbers with runners in scoring position last season, including with 2 outs.

    I have posted those numbers in virtually every conceivable high leverage category over and over again on this site, and some people who regularly post here and who account themselves astute Yankee fans have repeatedly continued to speak of his “no clutch” baseball personality…. did they not watch games last year?

    It goes to show, there is a deep bias around this player among some fans who think in emotional/stereotypical cliches spit out by the likes of baseball mental midgets like Michael Kay, and though they profess to watch the games and comment regularly here, they have spectacularly swung and missed on what Cano did all year long.

    Cano last season was a monster, and monsters need to get paid, particularly monsters who play up-the-middle positions and who are prohibitively the best all-around at their position in their sport.

    The Yankees had to find a way to keep their best player, and what did they do?

    They spent 2013 using Kay as a ventriloquist’s dummy to demean him – they virtually never mentioned his RISP numbers, until Singleton happened to briefly mention it, with great surprise in his voice, even though he’d been doing it all season and the likes of ESPN and MLB Network talked about it all year long – and the dummies fell in line and re-bleated what the Big Dummy said.

    They (not you, obviously) continue to regurgitate their bitterness and dislike of a player who has never been fully appreciated by the fanbase, including some of the people who post here.

    It’s sad – for those of us who know what has been lost. The rest, as they say “won’t miss him”, because you don’t miss what you never knew was there.

  20. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Aledmys Diaz?

  21. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 9:33 am

    YT, nice thing about this time of year – no bugs! :D

  22. NYY fan in NH January 25th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Listening to Bill Madden on WFAN.. I can’t stand that guy. He’s such a Yankee hater. Saying that Tanaka is going to be a #3 starter and pretty much over rated!!

  23. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Thanks Christian,

    Good job, I miss the Bronx Zoo days. I wouldn’t mind a limited return of at least some of the “shenanigans”. It was highly entertaining and not embarrassing at all.

  24. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    YT-

    Other than his age, country of origin, and position what do you know about him ?

  25. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Alfred, I think I’m making a mess of, Hamlet – left you some more ” insights “.

  26. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Bill Madden on wfan trashing the Yankees.

    “The scouts I’ve spoken to say he’s (Tanaka) a #3″

    this is just like the 150 (unnamed) people he claims to have called who told him Biggio used PED’s.

  27. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:37 am

    MTU
    Owings is now the DBacks third baseman, since they traded their 3rd baseman to the White Sox.

    Andrus- offense declining?

    Starling Castro- is there another Cubbie that might make Castro available?

    Franklin is a second baseman ??

  28. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Balmy 18 here this morning.

    Anyone hear the news?

    Cano signed with Seattle.

  29. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:39 am

    YT-

    Andrus- He’s still young w plenty of upside. maybe he needs a change of scene ?

    Castro- Baez makes him expendable.

    Franklin- His natural position is SS

    There are probably others that I am not even thinking about.

  30. austinmac January 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    YT,

    25 this morning, warming to 68. 74 tomorrow. That’s more like it.

  31. NYY fan in NH January 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Why even bother having Bill Madden on WFAN knowing he’s just going to bash the Yankees. “The worst team in baseball in player development” Screw him!! He obviously doesn’t look into the lower levels in the system to see that there are some potentially good players working their way up the system.

  32. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    MTU

    This article hot off the press on the Cubans available, with analysis on Diaz.

    http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....-defectors

  33. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Y’s-

    #3 is his FLOOR.

    His CIELING is Ace.

    :)

  34. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:45 am

    YT-

    Thanks for the article.

    Diaz sounds like he might be worth having if the deal is right.

  35. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    i was quoting bill madden. that’s what he said about 10 minutes ago.

  36. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Actually Tanaka might be a #4……….. That is to start with, in order that both teacher(Kuroda), and son (Tanaka) aren’t pitching back to back and exposing the same hitters to the splitty in the same series.

  37. NYY fan in NH January 25th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Tanaka maybe a #4 due to adjusting to MLB hitters, but his stuff rates as a #2 or maybe #1 down the road!

  38. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    YT-

    That is just a numerical designation though.

    His ability will decide his true #.

    :)

  39. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Y’s-

    And that was my response to him.

    I know it’s not your opinion.

    ;)

  40. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    actually i have no complaint about him saying that they’re the worst at player development, even though it’s an obvious overstatement.

    but the yankees really have been horrible at player development.

    and as for the guys in the lower minors, the guys in the higher minors were all pumped up like those guys when they were in a ball, too and look what that’s turned into.

    i hope some of them turn into major league players, but that’s what the development part is all about and the yankees have not shown they can bring that lower level talent to the majors in the past decade.

  41. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Good morning J Alfred.

    I can understand not going 10 years, but I can’t understand putting a hard cap on 7/175. Especially in light of the money they handed out this off-season including the same 175 for Tanaka.

    NOBODY knows if Robbie would have taken 8 or 9 years, because the Yankees stood firm on the offer of 7.

    They (the Yankee FO) are not dumb, (or so I am told) so they had to know that lame offer for one of the premier hitters in the league was going to be shot down immediately.

    Yet they stood firm “Cano is all about the money”. Well what was Tanaka all about? Did they try and compromise like 8/200? Did they really push hard to bring him back? I know what my answer is… hell no!

    They just didn’t want him back, and have sold the 7/175 BS to the fan base who many have took, hook, line and sinker.

  42. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    There are similiarities between the Yankees and Maple Leafs of the upper seventies/early eighties, except the Yankees won. Toronto’s owner, Harold Ballard, did his best to undermine my team. He completely stressed out a gentleman captain in Darry Sittler, and hired a dated individual in Punch Imlach as GM to dump another gentleman in Lanny MacDonald out of town until Darryl, who had a no trade, finally demanded leaving – Punch delivered Sittler to Philly of all places!!!, where Darryl got to see first hand what a back stabber Bobby Clarke was.

  43. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:55 am

    Y’s-

    I agree.

    Honestly I just don’t think the Yankees are putting everything into it that they could.

    And why you might ask ?

    IMO, it’s because they really don’t value or trust the farm the way some Teams might.

    Teams like the Rays or Braves who absolutely need to depend on it to survive.

    Makes a difference in outlook FWIS.

  44. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 9:56 am

    Madden is a jerk to just categorically state what a pitcher (Tanaka) is going to be.

    Unnamed scouts mean jack. Who cares what they allegedly said or think. Its means nothing if they’re not on the record.

    Who really knows how Tanaka will turn out? What I like though is he’s 25, he’s already built a tremendous track record, has swing and miss stuff and he’s on the Yankees. Nobody can argue he doesn’t have significant upside.

    Time will tell if he realizes it though on the big stage.

  45. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    I can almost guarantee you that if the Yankees made having a top notch Farm system a “mandate”
    they would have had one by now.

    ;)

  46. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    Teacher and pupil!

    jAP

    I too will miss Cano. The Yankees had a lot of holes to fill, still do. JayZ wanted teams to Show Him the Money. The Yankees would have had to pony up more than $240M to even match his contract, to account for no state income tax in Washington as well as lower city taxes.

    Had the Yankees signed him, for let’s say around $255 to $260M, would they then have not been able to make improvements and surround him with a better supporting cast?

    BTW, Carlos Beltran is pretty good with RISP

  47. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    Given their resources IMO the Yankees are the worst ML team at developing their own.

    Just look at their roster and what they’ve had to spend just to be competitive this year.

    There were zero answers from the farm and this goes back years.

    That is on Hal for putting up with it, Cashman for overseeing it and Newman for being directly in charge.

    Development has to improve,you can’t continually spend a half billion dollars every few years to try to win. It is a stupid and non-sustainable model.

  48. hardwired7 January 25th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    You’ll have to forgive Madden, I’m sure he’s extremely hungover.

  49. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    If you have ever watched any video of Tanaka, and you had just an ounce of good judgement,
    you couldn’t possibly say what a guy like Madden says about him.

    He obviously hasn’t watched him much for himself, or maybe not at all.

    He’s relying the reports of some unnamed scouts. Exactly who are they ?

    ;)

  50. Poetkiosk January 25th, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Bill Madden just absolutely destroyed the Yankees organization on WFAN.

    Sum: Everyone in the development department should be fired. The Yankees have way too many holes and what ifs to be close to a contender this year. The FO is basically trying to trick the fanbase into thinking they are a contender.

    Oh and that the sale of YES to Fox might be a sign that the Steinbrenners are selling.

  51. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 10:02 am

    21-

    The failure of the Farm when they needed most is what has caused the Yankees to scrap 189 and return to a different more familiar mode of operating.

    One that they are good at.

    ;)

  52. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:02 am

    PK
    Makes sense and why they spent all they did this off season.

  53. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    “He’s relying the reports of some unnamed scouts. Exactly who are they ?”

    Little voices in his head…that sound just like little Mikey Loopyca?. just a guess :D

    I miss the Loopy rants from murphydog….

  54. Giuseppe Franco January 25th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    I can’t stand Bill Madden either but claiming that the Yanks are the worst at player development isn’t all that far from the truth.

    If they aren’t the worst, they are in the conversation among the worst.

    Their failures in player development is the primary reason why they’ve had to go on such a shopping spree this winter.

  55. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Tar-

    Yes. They were hysterical.

    :)

  56. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    This post is a nice piece of writing.

  57. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    Oh and that the sale of YES to Fox might be a sign that the Steinbrenners are selling.
    ———-
    Don’t know enough-Why?

  58. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    The Yankees have just done a “reset”.

    They’ve bought themselves another few years to make the Farm work.

    Wave # 3 coming. Hope it works this time.

    ;)

  59. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    NYY fan in NH says:
    January 25, 2014 at 9:35 am
    Listening to Bill Madden on WFAN.. I can’t stand that guy. He’s such a Yankee hater. Saying that Tanaka is going to be a #3 starter and pretty much over rated!!

    It was inevitable that he haters would crawl out under their rocks when the yanks got tanaka….what does a Bill Madden know? Who cares what he says?

  60. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    Maybe what the Yanks did over a Cano offer is a little close to the Blue Jay line over, Tanaka – ” we were serious but have a ” policy ” on 5 years only. ” Now, personally, I never thought the Jays were going to land, Frank Tanana, but I think it would be better for AA to say, ” we were no way anything of serious “. Rogers does have a lot of money though…

  61. MTU January 25th, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Have to take a break.

    Back in a while.

  62. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 10:08 am

    The Yankees need to go on a different buying binge; not of players but of player developers.

    They need to find talent among the best development organizations in the game, if it takes top dollar, do it. Rack up the frequent flyer miles to TB, STL and TEX. They can be found there.

    It has to be a better ROI model than a half billion FA splurge every 3-4 years.

    Surely Hal as a numbers guy has to realize that, right. Right?

  63. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    This is what I mean about missing the Bronx Zoo.

    The next time Girardi see’s Maddon he should go all kung fu on him, with the camera’s rolling. That would be both entertaining and hilarious. Not the least bit embarrassing either… I might add.

  64. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    That’s Madden or Maddon hell go off on both of them!!! :twisted:

  65. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    My last word regarding Cano; I don’t think the entire story has been told yet. it’s just my gut feeling based on watching him over the years and culminating with his signing with Seattle. Despite his boyish grin, I think he was sullen in many ways, self absorbed and never a true team player or Yankee. He was obstinate, using his elite status to decide when to run out ground balls as opposed to doing it because it was the right thing to do and his manger wanted him to.

    Also, his friendship with Melky and Ortiz and recently A-Rod never served him well. “Ortiz agrees with Cano that the Yankees disrespected their former superstar second baseman.” and Rodriguez said, “I’m obviously happy for him and his family. I think he is going to have a fantastic career over there.” Again, I believe there is more to this and I think it will come out someday.

    Cano said. “I didn’t feel respect. I didn’t get any respect from them and I didn’t see any effort.” A seven-year, $175-million offer, with a greater average annual value of $25 million was perceived as an insult. Amazing. You can talk about the righteousness of taking the money, I get that, but Pedroia gave the Red Sox a substantial discount to stay with the team and Lester just indicated he will do the same.

    I believe the boos will be loud and there will be no applause at the Stadium for Cano.

  66. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:13 am

    The Yankees need to go on a different buying binge; not of players but of player developers.”

    Agreed….they should have stole all of tampa and the cards development people years ago.

    Cashman should call Friedman say look man…..come to ny to be the GM….we will pay you whatever you want. I’ll be a president or something and specialize in landing free agents and dumpster diving…..you specialize in development and trades etc……together we could rule this planet

  67. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Blake,

    Like Mr. Potter and George Bailey.

  68. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Cano and the Yankees parting ways was more than about just money IMO…..

  69. PhiltheThrill January 25th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    The sale of YES to Fox happened because Goldman Sachs wanted to divest. The Steinbrenners also made money on the deal, but still control 20% of YES. The Yanks will,at some point, make a deal with YES that eclipses the mammoth new Dodger TV deal. And Fox will foot most of it, instead of the Yankees just moving money from one pocket to another. This is a good thing, other than the fact that it’s Fox. It creates more cash-flow.

  70. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 9:36 am
    Bill Madden on wfan trashing the Yankees.

    —————-

    He is out of touch

  71. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    The worst team in baseball in player development”

    ————————

    That’s extreme they aren’t good at it but the worst team in baseball in terms of development is going far.

  72. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Have they ever said who was replacing mcarver on fox?

  73. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:16 am
    Cano and the Yankees parting ways was more than about just money IMO…..
    _____________

    Agree. What’s your take on what was involved aside from the bucks? In fairness, I do think the Yankees unwillingness to do ten year contracts for 31 year old players had a lot to do with it. Dating was fine but when the marriage ultimatum came they said no and I agree with that decision.

  74. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    “but Pedroia gave the Red Sox a substantial discount to stay with the team and Lester just indicated he will do the same.”

    Three things on this….One what does it say about players feelings for the Sox FO vs the Yankee FO?

    Two…. Arroyo also gave the Sox a discount and was promptly traded. Pedroia and Lester may be ok with their contract now….but lets see how they really feel about it 5 years down the road.

    And finally the Yankees never gave Cano a chance to go the discount route, because they purposely made an offer that wasn’t in the correct range. We don’t know if Cano would have given a discount at lets say 8 years because of the hard line 7 year stance.

    And we can all say “oh the outrage, he thought 175 was an insult” but they just gave the same money to an unproven pitcher.

    All the monetary figures that these guys get are ridiculous anyway, the insult comes into play when you are talking about comparison purposes, and what it means about really wanting someone.

  75. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Here’s to another season, wish the A.L. East of the eighties with no wild cards were here.

  76. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Bio-

    I think I know where you are going with this.

    Hopefully that is not the case.

  77. hardwired7 January 25th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    After thoroughly scouting Tanaka, the Dbacks felt strongly that he would be one of the top pitchers in the game. They were genuinely saddened to lose out on him, because he can be a difference-maker. #3 starters don’t engender that sort of reaction.

    “We were looking to add a pitcher, an elite pitcher, a No. 1 or No. 2 starter, and Tanaka fit the bill,” Towers said.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/arizo.....ing-012214

    I feel more comfortable with the assessment of people who are actually in the game than some blowhard like Bill Madden.

  78. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Tar January 25th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Good morning J Alfred.

    I can understand not going 10 years, but I can’t understand putting a hard cap on 7/175. Especially in light of the money they handed out this off-season including the same 175 for Tanaka.

    NOBODY knows if Robbie would have taken 8 or 9 years, because the Yankees stood firm on the offer of 7.

    They (the Yankee FO) are not dumb, (or so I am told) so they had to know that lame offer for one of the premier hitters in the league was going to be shot down immediately.

    Yet they stood firm “Cano is all about the money”. Well what was Tanaka all about? Did they try and compromise like 8/200? Did they really push hard to bring him back? I know what my answer is… hell no!

    They just didn’t want him back, and have sold the 7/175 BS to the fan base who many have took, hook, line and sinker.
    ///

    Anyone claiming they made a serious run at re-signing him is full of crap.

    They only say it because they want to pre-empt the criticism that the Yankee FO carelessly and consciously let a Yankee-Stadium perfect player, who is also nearly an identical road player (if they even know that), along with all his other virtues, walk and got virtually nothing for him.

    They not only allowed him to leave, they were premeditating the case for his dispatch all season long with Kay’s idiot observations, and yes, hook, line and sinker was the effect on the gullible and those who spit on anyone the instant they become a former Yankee, and spin everything to reflect how smart the FO is, even though they have not a signle player from the system who will be a starter this season.

    Yes Trader, Beltran is a very good hitter and a clutch one, and the Yankee fan response to Cano reminds me oh so very much of how Beltran’s caught looking shaped the Met fan consciousness about that player.

    But to compare a 38-year old, fragile OF with a 31 year old 2B who is the best in the world?

    jmills – sorry, I have something time sensitive that is taking all my focus, but I appreciate your very detailed ruminations and find them fascinating: I don’t want to cheat them with superficial responses (nor reply here, obviously), so I am saving that for when I can devote the attention they deserve.

    Please know, though, that I am utterly delighted to have you deeply communing with these pages, believe me; I almost feel a guilty pleasure, as if I’ve somehow hypnotized your unbelievably subtle mind to enter Elsinore :)

    I’m off for now.

  79. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    .what does a Bill Madden know?

    —————-

    Not a lot since his inside source(The Boss) R.I.P. passed away.

  80. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:29 am

    The Rays spend their money on technical advisors for their GM! Advisors who helped hone the Maddon Shift.

    Blake and Tar

    Get Friedman, their technical team and Maddon and believe in the Shift!

  81. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:30 am

    The Cubs really wanted Tanaka….Hoyer said they had him as a frontline starter and well ahead of the other pitchers on the market due to talent and age

  82. tbone1570 January 25th, 2014 at 10:30 am

    PhiltheThrill January 25th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    The Yanks will,at some point, make a deal with YES that eclipses the mammoth new Dodger TV deal.
    **************************

    The current TV deal with YES runs thru 2042. That’s an aweful long time to wait to strike a better deal then the Dodgers got.

  83. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:31 am

    The Cano negotiations are just perplexing overall. Cano and Jay-Z came out asking for a preposterous $300m. The Yankees hard lined at $175m. The only other offer we know that was higher than that was $240m. Cano and Jay-Z settle for $60m less than their asking price because the Mariners offered $60m+ more than the second highest offer. Than they called the Yankees back to offer a discount of $2-5m? It’s just weird. A weird process.

  84. joeman January 25th, 2014 at 10:31 am

    Sea will get 2-3 good years out of him then it’s all downhill

  85. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:32 am

    Anyone claiming they made a serious run at re-signing him is full of crap.”

    I think they made a bid that was high enough where people wouldn’t question their intentions……but low enough where they knew he wouldn’t take it.

    If the Yankees really had wanted Cano….he would be a Yankee right now…..they spent almost half a billion this winter

  86. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:34 am

    YT

    The Yankees have a chance to somewhat diminish the weakness of their infield defense by using the shift both a lot and correctly.

    YF posted some useful links on the shift including this one.

    Pay attention to the awful Brewers infield defense and how that was somewhat mitigated by the shift.

    http://www.billjamesonline.com....._to_shift/

  87. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Giving a 31 year old player like Cano a ten year deal at $25 million a year would have meant making the same mistake they did with A-Rod. The Yankees were smart enough not to do that. Plus, I truly believe there was more to it that we just don’t know now.

    I’m not regretting Cano being gone, as great a player as he was. I really like the additions of McCann, Ellsbury, Beltran and Tanaka. I’m feeling very positive about this team; barring injuries the future looks bright to me.

  88. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    “I think they made a bid that was high enough where people wouldn’t question their intentions……but low enough where they knew he wouldn’t take it.”

    Exactly

  89. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:36 am

    JAP

    Have a great day. Still believe it was going to take 250 to 260M to match the Mariner contract because of the difference in taxes.

    If you want to blame someone, blame JayZ also. It was about the money.

  90. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Maybe the Yanks thought nobody else would jump in high enough over 175 that he’d actually leave…..but they had to know this was possible. I think when Cash made the comment “Cano loves the money” he already was seeing the writing on the wall and knew he was gone……I get not wanting to give him 235 at age 31……but as I’ve said…..they were never getting him under 200 million and they should have known that……my guess is they did.

    They offered 175 do Kay could go on the radio and talk about how much money that is and how nobody can claim they didn’t try because it’s 25 million a year…….but as Hal said a couple of days ago….the market is what teams will pay…..and somebody was always gonna pay big for cano

  91. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Yanks upgraded at two positions and downgraded at one for the same price as holding steady at one and grabbing sub-replacement level guys at two other positions.

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Before I bolt, the thing going for the Yanks this season is the obvious possibility that 1-4, the pitching staff is pontentially all “ace” quality.

    And fortunately, along with the groundball proclivities (agh, minus Cano), they all have ring-up ability as well.

    I expect a big rebound from C, & I think Kuroda’s troubles, as I said during last season, were exhaustion from trying to walk a tightrope all season, and see no reason why Nova won’t continue to ring up batters and induce grounders, now that he has rediscovered his sinker (or has been persuaded to rely on it once again, one).

    Tanaka will have to do it, but it certainly sounds as though he comes in with elite weapons (I have not yet had time to watch him on video).

    That’s exciting, as is DRob closing, and I believe there’s enough in the system to add in to the bullpen (like we did in 2009).

    The issues are age, injury potential, infield defense, and the fact that you removed a transcendent talent and the glue of your infield.

    Had they just kept Cano, rather than sign Ellsbury (and left Gardner alone; Gardner, who ironically, underwent a radical change as a hitter, even though it seems to have escaped quite a few Lohudders; in fact, complaining about base stealing seems suspect, since the guy was leading off with doubles and triples: I know what I prefer!), they would be scary legit.

    Later

  93. jmills January 25th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    Later, folks. The shovel’s getting restless at the door, but its eggs first.

  94. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    the yankees didnt think cano was worth 10 years. thats all.

    we wont know who’s right for likely 8 years or so.

    i think the last 2-3 years of that contract ($72-$96M) is money down the drain and i wouldnt have gone anywhere near 10 years either.

    the rest is just noise.

  95. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    Is the Yankees infield defense projected to be worse this season than last? I’m not so sure.

  96. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    “Have a great day. Still believe it was going to take 250 to 260M to match the Mariner contract because of the difference in taxes”

    Cashman said that Cano’s camp said 235 would get a deal done with the Yankees that night I believe……so that was the price. The yanks knew the price and they passed …..simple as that

  97. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Blojaldo

    I’m not saying the Yankees should have went 10 years, but they definitely should have tried to comprise between 7 and 10.

    The Yankees would be….. never mind. Its not happening.

  98. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    i posted it yesterday but it bears repeating:

    Brett Gardner came in 9th in OPS among qualifying OF’s.

    not steals, not defense, OPS.

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    If you want to blame someone, blame JayZ also. It was about the money.
    ///

    I can’t: if the Yankees hadn’t spent all season using Kay as a mouthpiece to disparage and insult Cano, that’d be different.

    So, ‘where the offence is, let the great axe fall.’

    Have a good day, folks.

  100. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    sorry that was 9th in qualifying AL OF’s for Gardner.

  101. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    And regarding the less than stellar condition of the Yankees farm system, they are getting ready to break the bank in the international market. That’s their way of feeding great young players into the mix which will hopefully provide a good alternative to the traditional draft pipeline until the Yankees straighten that out – while giving the young lower level talent in the minors time to progress.

  102. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    RadioKev says:
    January 25, 2014 at 10:37 am
    Is the Yankees infield defense projected to be worse this season than last? I’m not so sure.

    Has to be…..they lost cano and we don’t even know who’s playing 3B. The yanks infield D might be the worst in baseball…..especially the left side

  103. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am

    Cano said. “I didn’t feel respect. I didn’t get any respect from them and I didn’t see any effort.” A seven-year, $175-million offer, with a greater average annual value of $25 million was perceived as an insult. Amazing

    —————

    Their offer wasn’t an insult the way they approached him was. The laid the ground work months in advance.

  104. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Brett Gardner came in 9th in OPS among qualifying OF’s.”

    That’s why they aren’t trading him unless they can get homer Bailey or a long term option at SS IMO

  105. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    YsGuy, Gardner adds back some OBP and base stealing to augment a change in his approach at the plate, that would have been a potent player.

    He really became a hitter in 2013.

    Bye

  106. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Tar

    You and I have talked about the shift. It takes the pitchers able to pitch to location in order to get the batter to hit where the infielders are placing themselves, based on the technical info that Maddon gets on each batter.

    Granderson had a very tough time getting any ground ball hit to the right side, thru the shift. Kendrys Morales also.

  107. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Cano’s close relationship with Arod and Melky along with his Papi worship made me a bit nervous.

    I would not at all be surprised if at some point he is fingered as a user.

    So reminiscent of the long contract they gave Arod only to find out shortly afterward.

    To me there is no looking back.

  108. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Screw the Mariner’s 2B!

  109. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    “Their offer wasn’t an insult the way they approached him was. The laid the ground work months in advance.”

    ” thats the way he rolls now” Jorge Posada

  110. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:44 am

    I wonder if the Yankees had an inkling it was going on with Cano.

  111. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:44 am

    “Cano said. “I didn’t feel respect. I didn’t get any respect from them and I didn’t see any effort.” A seven-year, $175-million offer, with a greater average annual value of $25 million was perceived as an insult. Amazing”

    It may have just been the Yankees attitude during the talks…..we really don’t know. Cano gave them a team friendly extension once already…..had been their best player for years……I can imagine if Seattle and other teams were wining and dining him and acting like he hung the moon…..but the yanks were just kinda being smug about their offer like here this take it or leave it…..that it could have miffed cano a bit.

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    If the Yankees really had wanted Cano….he would be a Yankee right now…..they spent almost half a billion this winter
    ///

    This is really it for me, but right. How do you not want Cano???

    There is no answer for that that flies.

    As I must :)

  113. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    As I’ve said ….I get not wanting to give Cano 10/235 at age 31…..but where that falls apart for me is when you turn around and offer Ellsbury an even worse and more risky deal. To me….at best Ellsburys deal is just as risky as Cano’s…..maybe more

  114. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:40 am
    RadioKev says:
    January 25, 2014 at 10:37 am
    Is the Yankees infield defense projected to be worse this season than last? I’m not so sure.

    Has to be…..they lost cano and we don’t even know who’s playing 3B. The yanks infield D might be the worst in baseball…..especially the left side
    ——–

    3B was a collective blackhole last year as well. Ryan is an upgrade over Nunez/Jeter. I don’t know where Roberts defense stands these days. And if Tex is starting the whole season, he’s an upgrade too.

    I’m not declaring our defense great, I’m just questioning if it’s gotten worse.

  115. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    YT

    The Brewers who were absolutely awful on infield defense improved dramatically by using the shift.

    from that link

    “This data is striking. These Brewer infielders improved by 56 runs in 2011. They were still below average with 18 defensive runs lost overall, but that 56 run improvement means five or six wins added to their win total.”

    Is Girardi paying attention?

  116. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

    I WANT RESPECT!!!!

    i WANT MY A$$ KI$$ED NOT ONLY WITH HUNDRED$ OF MILLION$ OF DOLLAR$ BUT LOVE AND KI$$E$, TOO!

    WAAAAHHH!!!

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    “Their offer wasn’t an insult the way they approached him was. The laid the ground work months in advance.”

    ” thats the way he rolls now” Jorge Posada
    ///

    Yup.

    Tar, North Carolina cannot possibly appreciate you.

    We need you back in Gotham :)

    Great afternoon, all

  118. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:47 am

    This is really it for me, but right. How do you not want Cano???”

    We may never know the full story…..but again I think it was more than the money. They soured on him for some reason…..at least enough to not be willing to go where they needed to to sign him

  119. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:47 am

    “I wonder if the Yankees had an inkling it was going on with Cano.”

    RIB

    Let’s for the sake of argument say that is true. Why make an offer of 7/ 175?

  120. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:47 am

    how quickly he forgot that the 1st $57M he made was paid him by the Yankees.

  121. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:48 am

    blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am
    As I’ve said ….I get not wanting to give Cano 10/235 at age 31…..but where that falls apart for me is when you turn around and offer Ellsbury an even worse and more risky deal. To me….at best Ellsburys deal is just as risky as Cano’s…..maybe more
    ———-

    But the Yanks turned around and gave Cano’s contract to two guys.

  122. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:48 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:44 am
    I wonder if the Yankees had an inkling it was going on with Cano.
    —————-

    Maybe but this is the same team that spent big money on Giambi when it was known he was a juicer.

  123. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:48 am

    “3B was a collective blackhole last year as well. Ryan is an upgrade over Nunez/Jeter. I don’t know where Roberts defense stands these days. And if Tex is starting the whole season, he’s an upgrade too.”

    Well hopefully ryan doesn’t play much…..and Roberts who knows…..he used to be a good defender….I have no idea what he is now

  124. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:49 am

    Oh, and McCann is probably a better catcher than Stewie.

  125. pkyankfan69 January 25th, 2014 at 10:49 am

    Bill James ranked Daniel Nava and Gardner over Justin Upton and Bryce Harper.

  126. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:50 am

    Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    ————————-

    As do all players they all liked to be romanced and propped up. None of the players we signed outside of maybe Beltran came here because they absolutely love the team. The Yankees even had to throw an extra yr on Tanaka’s deal just to get him.

  127. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:50 am

    totally disagree that the ellsbury deal is worse than cano’s.. cano’s has $75-$100M of waste built into it.

    ellsbury’s deal goes to age 37, cano’s to 42.

  128. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    “But the Yanks turned around and gave Cano’s contract to two guys.”

    Who? In AAV the 10/235 it would have taken to get cano is basically the same as Ellsbury….it’s like 1 million more. The only difference is Cano’s is 3 extra years long…..in AAV for 2014 Ellsbury + Beltran is like 37 million…..Cano would have been 23.5.

  129. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Tar

    They knew what he wanted, understood he would get it.

    Gave him a take it or leave it.

    You sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.

    I’ve always felt if you wanted to know anyone check out who they hang with.

    Too close for comfort for a ten year contract in my book.

    No regrets here.

  130. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Tar

    The Orioles are now second among teams who use the shift, and I’ve noticed the RedSox are using it against the Yankees. That alone is 57 games a year that many of the Yankee lefties are going to have to try and beat. David Ortiz probably read that article, be cause he claimed it cost him 40 points on his batting average. He at least will lay down a bunt once in a while.

  131. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    i have no problem with the seattle 2b taking the most money, just like jeter said.

    my problem is the ‘respect’ stuff, that’s just bs and crapping on the organization that paid him $50M+ and their fans.

    take the money and go, but show some class on the way out.

  132. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Ys Guy says:
    January 25, 2014 at 10:50 am
    totally disagree that the ellsbury deal is worse than cano’s.. cano’s has $75-$100M of waste built into it.

    Ellsbury has averaged 108 games played in his career…..he may break in year 2 and the whole thing be a waste. Id rather have the guy that plays 160 games for 10 years than the guy that plays 108 games for 7

  133. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:52 am

    Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:50 am
    totally disagree that the ellsbury deal is worse than cano’s.. cano’s has $75-$100M of waste built into it.

    ellsbury’s deal goes to age 37, cano’s to 42.

    —————–

    True but Ellsbury is an injury prone speed guy

  134. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    “Gave him a take it or leave it.

    You sleep with dogs you wake up with fleas.”

    I’m going to take this to mean “to shut up the gullible fan base”

    Thanks for answering.

  135. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am
    “But the Yanks turned around and gave Cano’s contract to two guys.”

    Who? In AAV the 10/235 it would have taken to get cano is basically the same as Ellsbury….it’s like 1 million more. The only difference is Cano’s is 3 extra years long…..in AAV for 2014 Ellsbury + Beltran is like 37 million…..Cano would have been 23.5.
    ——

    In committed money,Ellsbury is $153m and McCann is $85m. $238m.

  136. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Against all Odds

    Balco and Giambi’s invovlement came out after the Yankees gave him that long contract.

    Kind of like AROD.

    And they didn’t renew Giambi either.

  137. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    the rest is just noise.
    ///

    The “noise” was the shrieking and shrill ketchup and mayonnaise-deprived drivel of Yankee hitman Michael Kay.

    Sure, block it out because it doesn’t suit your rose colored view that they tried in earnest to re-sign their prohibitively most important player.

    They ran a smear campaign against him all season long with that idiot running his trap.

    The lowest common denominator fan picked that up and wailed all year in here (while all of you, ‘let’s move on’ people did not offer so much as a whimper in protest).

    Michael Kay is a party hack who does what the machine tells him to do.

  138. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    pkyankfan69 says:
    January 25, 2014 at 10:49 am
    Bill James ranked Daniel Nava and Gardner over Justin Upton and Bryce Harper.

    It’s a “right now” list…..so I guess he thinks they are better right now……still that’s crazy and shows no projection. There isn’t a GM in baseball that wouldn’t rather have Harper than the other 3 put together

  139. mick January 25th, 2014 at 10:54 am

    Cano is the one who played “Take it or Leave it.”
    Not the Yankees.

  140. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 10:54 am

    I’m so past Cano leaving for the money because in my mind that is what he did.

    At the end of the day it was his choice, he earned the right to go west.

    No problem, Forget him.

    As much as I despite the MS Media with its love-fest of Pedroia, one thing you cannot say about Pedroia is he did not leave over the money. He loves the Redsox and its tradition and its chance of winning more than the millions more that he was in line for when he reached free-agency.

    Two different uniforms, two different attitudes. I like the latter attitude better, even though the former is a better player.

  141. exiledintampa January 25th, 2014 at 10:54 am

    RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:49 am
    Oh, and McCann is probably a better catcher than Stewie.

    The king of understatement.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    “Maybe but this is the same team that spent big money on Giambi when it was known he was a juicer.”

    Congress wasn’t breathing down their throats when the Yankees spent big money on
    Giambi.

    That was then, this is now.

  143. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    my problem is the ‘respect’ stuff, that’s just bs and crapping on the organization that paid him $50M+ and their fans.

    take the money and go, but show some class on the way out.

    —————

    But that’s how it is with all these players. Bernie almost bolted to Bean town until he called George and they got a deal done. Players want to feel wanted. We see it all the time in sports. Shaq wanted out of the Lakers because they wouldn’t pay him what he wanted, didn’t show him the love, and began moving the team towards Kobe.

  144. mick January 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    The “noise” was the shrieking and shrill ketchup and mayonnaise-deprived drivel of Yankee hitman Michael Kay.
    =============
    A lot of so called “stupid fans” shared that opinion.

  145. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    McCann is probably a better *defensive catcher than Stewie.

  146. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    mick says:
    January 25, 2014 at 10:54 am
    Cano is the one who played “Take it or Leave it.”
    Not the Yankees.

    Both parties did

  147. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    “take the money and go, but show some class on the way out.”

    YEAH Y’s……JUST LIKE THE YANKEES DID (see I can use all caps too).

    Since “Cano is all about the money” he should have just taken his “all about the money” show and hit the road with some class. Leave the classless stuff to yankees and cash man who are really good at it.

  148. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    i predict that the seattle 2b will play less games the last 2 years of his contract than ellsbury will.

    hopefully i live long enough to find out.

  149. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    Congress wasn’t breathing down their throats when the Yankees spent big money on
    Giambi.

    That was then, this is now.

    ————-

    Doesn’t matter they still signed a known user. Everyone knew Jason Giambi was on roids. The Oakland connection didn’t do him any favors as well.

  150. mick January 25th, 2014 at 10:57 am

    Both parties did
    ===========
    So if it was mutual, what is the argument?
    Like Tex sez:
    “Everybody be happy.”

  151. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    The Yankees didn’t win the last four years. I like the feel of this being a fresh start in a way. McCann is 29, Ellsbury is 30 and Tanaka is 25 and all should be major assets. There are no budget constraints now and I look for them to make substantive moves to fill in holes by the trade deadline. They can afford to see how it goes the first half with Roberts, D-Rob, Johnson, etc.

  152. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    Against All Odds

    I don’t recall anyone in the media accusing Giambi of juicing before Balco and all hell broke lose.

    Everyone knew?

    Is that why Torre called him to encourage him to come to the Yankees?

  153. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    Since “Cano is all about the money” he should have just taken his “all about the money” show and hit the road with some class. Leave the classless stuff to yankees and cash man who are really good at it.

    Tar, totally agree with this statement.

  154. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    like i said i have no problem with leaving for the money, just dont crap on the team and its fans on the way out.

    true bernie and mo flirted with the red socks and had they taken more money to leave, fine i have no problem with it.

    do you think either of them would have cried about being disrepsected by the yankees after they signed elsewhere?

    i certainly don’t.

  155. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Blake

    Given that per Cots, the payroll currently by AAV is around 203M, had the Yankees given Cano what Cashman said, $235M over 10 years, what other moves or non moves would the Yankees have had to make to match the current payroll?

    Anyone? No Ellsbury?
    Tanaka?

  156. blake January 25th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Both parties did
    ===========
    So if it was mutual, what is the argument?
    Like Tex sez:
    “Everybody be happy.”

    I have no problem really …..I would have rather signed Cano than Ellsbury though. It’s over now …..I’m cheering for Jacoby. My only real concern with him is health…..if he can play he’s good.

  157. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    He loves the Redsox and its tradition and its chance of winning more than the millions more that he was in line for when he reached free-agency.

    Two different uniforms, two different attitudes. I like the latter attitude better

    ——————–

    Cano went to the Yankees two yrs ago and asked for an extension they turned him down. That right there was his attempt to stay with the team long term but they rejected it.

  158. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    “Given that per Cots, the payroll currently by AAV is around 203M, had the Yankees given Cano what Cashman said, $235M over 10 years, what other moves or non moves would the Yankees have had to make to match the current payroll?”

    Basically just not signed Ellsbury….the AAVs of the two deals are close to the same

  159. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    YS

    Didn’t Posada consider leaving, to the Mets if I remember, until the Yankees gave him a 4th year?

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Cano’s close relationship with Arod and Melky along with his Papi worship made me a bit nervous.

    I would not at all be surprised if at some point he is fingered as a user.
    ////

    You mean, like Brian Roberts? Who, you know, was actually on a list and actually admitted to steroid use, unlike the crap you are just making up here about Cano?:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Roberts

    Steroid allegations

    On September 30, 2006, the Los Angeles Times reported that during a June 6, 2006, federal raid, former relief pitcher Jason Grimsley named Roberts as a user of anabolic steroids. The Times reported that Roberts was one of five names blacked out in an affidavit filed in federal court.[13] However, on October 3, 2006, The Washington Post reported that San Francisco United States attorney Kevin Ryan said that the Los Angeles Times report contained “significant inaccuracies.”[14] On December 20, 2007, the actual names in the Grimsley search warrant affidavit were revealed to the public. Roberts, Jay Gibbons, Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens were not actually named in the report and Miguel Tejada was named only for having a conversation about amphetamines.[15] Roberts, along with the other four players named, denounced the story.[14] Roberts was subsequently named in George Mitchell’s report on performance enhancing drugs. According to page 158 of the Mitchell Report, Roberts lived with then-teammate Larry Bigbie in David Segui’s house near the end of the 2001 season. Bigbie and Segui were regular steroid users; while they were using the performance enhancing drugs and Roberts was present, he asserted that he did not participate. According to Bigbie’s testimony, Roberts told him in 2004 that he had injected himself with steroids “once or twice” in 2003.[16]

    On December 17, 2007, Roberts released a statement in which he admits to using steroids on a single occasion.

    “In 2003, when I took one shot of steroids,” he said. “I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. I never used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident.

    “I can honestly say before God, myself, my family and all of my fans, that steroids or any performance-enhancing drugs have never had any effect on what I have worked so hard to accomplish in the game of baseball.”

  161. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    That right there was his attempt to stay with the team long term but they rejected it.
    ================
    Why do you think they turned him down?
    Price too high? Years too long?

  162. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Jap

    They didn’t Roberts a ten year contract.

    A big difference wouldn’t you say?

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:02 am

    See?

    Brian Roberts swears before God and country that it’s quite alright that he dabbled in steroids, because it didn’t really taint all the “hard work” he put into playing baseball.

    So you can all relax.

    Good day, indeed!

  164. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:02 am

    I don’t recall anyone in the media accusing Giambi of juicing before Balco and all hell broke lose.

    Everyone knew?

    Is that why Torre called him to encourage him to come to the Yankees?”

    RIB

    Maybe not everyone knew, but the Yankees certainly did.

    IF you argue that point, you are arguing that the Yankee front office is even dumber than anything I have ever accused them of. :D

  165. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:03 am

    My only real concern with him is health

    ————-

    That’s the major concern. I can see it getting ugly if he he has frequent DL stints.

  166. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:03 am

    Gardner CF
    Jeter SS/3B
    Cano 2B
    Beltran RF
    McCann C
    Soriano DH
    Tex 1B
    Drew SS/3B
    Ichiro LF

    That’s the lineup they could have had.

    To me that’s better than what they have currently …

  167. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:03 am

    “Doesn’t matter they still signed a known user. Everyone knew Jason Giambi was on roids. The Oakland connection didn’t do him any favors as well.”

    Everyone? Link please? I’d like to know who everyone is.

  168. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    if any team chooses not to pay a player tens of millions of dollars and lets them go to another team, that is not dispresect, its a buisness decision just like the player taking more money to leave is. If you disagree about their buisness decision, fine, but its their buisness not yours.

    be buisnesslike and professional about it, dont whine, you got your money, just say thanks to the fans and the organization for all they’ve given you to that point and move on.

    that’s what bernie and mo would have done.

  169. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Basically if they signed Cano instead of Jacoby….you don’t have Roberts and Ichiro has to play.

    Id rather have Cano and Ichiro on the field than Ellsbury and Roberts.

  170. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Blake, I’m really looking forward to watching Jacoby Ellsbury. And I’m also looking forward to Gardner being part of a base-stealing tag team with Ellsbury and learning from his example.

    I’ve never seen a more timid fast guy than Gardner, so hopefully the addition of Ellsbury will influence Gardner to be a little more reckless on the base paths in 2014.

  171. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    Tar

    You are entitled to your opinions but not to your own version of history.

    No one knew if Giambi was using until Balco.

    Until after he signed his Yankee contract.

  172. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    I didn’t know that about Roberts….haha what a sham.

    I am certain he’s only used that one time. Wow just wow.

  173. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    “Blake, I’m really looking forward to watching Jacoby Ellsbury. And I’m also looking forward to Gardner being part of a base-stealing tag team with Ellsbury and learning from his example.”

    I’m looking forward to watching Ellsbury…..Im not lookin forward to watching Ichiro when he’s on the DL though

  174. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 11:07 am

    blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am
    Basically if they signed Cano instead of Jacoby….you don’t have Roberts and Ichiro has to play.

    Id rather have Cano and Ichiro on the field than Ellsbury and Roberts.
    ————

    I’d rather have McCann, Ellsbury, and Roberts

    Than Stewie, Ichiro, and Cano.

    You can add Beltran into both equations fairly, I think.

  175. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:07 am

    “No one knew if Giambi was using until Balco.”

    What you are saying is they “you” did not know.

    Anyone who knows anything about steroids, and steroid users, knew just by taking one freaking look at him.

    RIB it was so freaking obvious I can’t even believe you arguing that point.

  176. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:07 am

    Tar

    Roberts wasn’t seeking a ten year contract.

    They renewed Andy too didn’t they? But a year at a time.

    The length of the contract his associates is what did him in.

    Enjoy the great NW Cano.

  177. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:08 am

    Why do you think they turned him down?
    Price too high? Years too long?

    ——–

    They turned him down due to their old outdated policy.

  178. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 11:09 am

    Blake, hopefully they find a landing spot outside NY for Ichiro and they give Almonte a shot at a a role if/when Ellsbury goes down.

    I respect Ichiro to the nth degree but he brings so little now other than some defense and a little speed, so I hope the Yankees can find a match and one of Almonte or Heathcott can get a shot at a ML gig.

  179. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:09 am

    “I’d rather have McCann, Ellsbury, and Roberts

    Than Stewie, Ichiro, and Cano.”

    They could have still signed McCann….Cano and Ellsburys AAVs are roughly the same. McCann will be gone 7 years from now anyway so the extra 3 years on Cano’s deal doesn’t matter for that.

    Really it’s Cano and Ichiro vs Ellsbury and Roberts…..and Id rate have the former

  180. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    Maybe the Yankee FO didn’t like Cano , for whatever reason other than his bat and glove.
    Maybe they viewed him as a bad attitude, non hustler type.
    They made the gamble, Cano helped it along.
    Seems mutual to me.
    Mutual dislike.
    End of story.
    Life goes on, they have tried to make up for it in other ways.
    No sense wasting time being bitter about it, you have a team to root for.
    If you can’t bring yourself to do it, then don’t..
    No sense belittling fans who don’t agree with your angst.

  181. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    “Maybe not everyone knew, but the Yankees certainly did.”

    I don’t know that’s the case at all Tar. I know that George was on a tear to get offense after the loss in the 2001 WS, when the Yankees hit .183, and Jason Giambi happened to be available, he of the MVP and mutli AS fame. Why wouldn’t they have gone after someone like that? Do you think they were really concentrating on who was using and who wasn’t in 2001?

  182. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    “Roberts wasn’t seeking a ten year contract.”

    Oh I get it…. your “values” and your claims of “cheating the game” “life time banishment” are dependent on the length of the contract. nice

    Thanks for proving my point all along.

  183. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    Tar

    Me arguing with you regarding Cano you shouldn’t surprise anyone.

    Would make me a member of a long list

  184. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:11 am

    “Blake, hopefully they find a landing spot outside NY for Ichiro and they give Almonte a shot at a a role if/when Ellsbury goes down”

    Agreed….he has virtually no role unless they trade Gardner. He’s the 5th outfielder currently

  185. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:11 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Jap

    They didn’t Roberts a ten year contract.

    A big difference wouldn’t you say?
    ///

    So I’m supposed to accept as a premise your COMPLETELY MADE UP scenarios where Robinson Cano is juicing, to justify the Yankees not re-upping with Cano.

    Um, no.

  186. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:11 am

    They turned him down due to their old outdated policy.
    =============
    Do you know what he wanted to extend?

  187. RadioKev January 25th, 2014 at 11:11 am

    Blake,

    I’m not sure why AAV matters more than the committed money? That’s what this all came down to, not signing Cano. The committed money, the years, not the AAV. I think you have to stick to those parameters to be fair.

  188. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:12 am

    The Yankees weren’t giving in to Cano.
    Plain and simple, accept it.

  189. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:13 am

    This is the same sour grapes as the Montero thing.

  190. raymagnetic January 25th, 2014 at 11:13 am

    OMG I thought I clicked on a post dated January 25th 2014.

    Cano is like so 2013.

    He left. His decision. It is what it is. Rehashing the same arguments is just lame, and sad btw.

  191. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:13 am

    Tar

    It’s always the Yankees at fault never the fault of the players you defend.

  192. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:14 am

    “Do you think they were really concentrating on who was using and who wasn’t in 2001?”

    That’s been exactly my point all along. They never cared who was using….. they knew Giambi was using and they didn’t care at all. In fact they were probably happy about it.

  193. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:15 am

    jap

    I didn’t make up anything. I simply said it would surprise me if Cano was outed based on who he keeps company with.

  194. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:15 am

    “would not”

  195. joeman January 25th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Cano making that right hand turn half way up the baseline towards first pissed me off

  196. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    “Would make me a member of a long list”

    “It’s always the Yankees at fault never the fault of the players you defend.”

    Sound like to me that you don’t have a response to my post attacking “your SELECTIVE values”.

    Whatever

  197. yankee21 January 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    There are a significant percent of people that frequent this blog that vehemently disagree with the Yankees for their decision not to retain Cano. From their perspective it is on the Yankees for letting him walk. They might be right. I respect their opinion and I’m not going to try to change it.

    It was the same thing for me when NY foolishly I thought traded Montero. To be frank I still think it was a bad decision making process even though the results are not in. The point is nobody was and is going to change my mind about Montero, only the facts playing out over years will show whether or not it was a good or bad decision in retrospect.

    So folks that love Cano and hate that he’s gone I can relate to, even though I do agree with the Yankees doing the lesser of two evils by not retaining him.

  198. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    “No sense wasting time being bitter about it, you have a team to root for.
    If you can’t bring yourself to do it, then don’t..
    No sense belittling fans who don’t agree with your angst.”

    Fat chance of that. History is just repeating itself. We’ll be punished all season because one person once again didn’t get something he wanted.

  199. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Cano making that right hand turn half way up the baseline towards first pissed me off
    ============================
    I’m glad he’s gone for that alone.
    But he was “conserving” energy.

  200. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Oh I get it…. your “values” and your claims of “cheating the game” “life time banishment” are dependent on the length of the contract. nice
    ////

    That’s reserved for Alex and also a new category of cheater: The theoretical cheater. (that’s the one whom one has any actual evidence against, but whom one hopes and prays turns out to be ‘tainted’ because, to go augment the primary invention, they have “spurned” the Yankees by leaving).

  201. Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    when the yankees signed damon, he spoke well of boston.

    i dont remember any talk of disrepect from ellsbury

    but the seattle 2b felt the need to crap on his former team.

  202. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    I LOVE that Ellsbury is our leadoff hitter, he hit .297 with 52 stolen bases and a .355 OBP in 2013 what’s not to like? And I think he may hit twelve to fifteen home runs playing half his games in the Stadium. Gardner with his .344 OBP back to back with Ellsbury when the lineup turns over; those two can do some damage.

  203. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    We’ll be punished all season because one person once again didn’t get something he wanted.
    ================
    I doubt that.
    When it comes to “hit and run,” some are experts.

  204. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:19 am

    How anyone can look at arod as an innocent is beyond comprehension.

  205. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    Ys Guy January 25th, 2014 at 11:18 am
    when the yankees signed damon, he spoke well of boston. i dont remember any talk of disrepect from ellsbury but the seattle 2b felt the need to crap on his former team.
    _______________________

    What should one expect when your role models are A-Rod and Melky Cabrera.

  206. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    “I doubt that.
    When it comes to “hit and run,” some are experts.”

    God if only.

    Tar, by the way, this isn’t directed at you.

  207. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:21 am

    jap

    I live in a world where people are honest where they take personal responsibility for their decisions and behavior.

    You seem to buy the victim hood routine. That’s ok.

    Frankly it would be refreshing to hear Cano admit he left for the money instead of trashing the Yankees.

    Or for AROD to admit that he is a habitual user. But I guess I’m asking for too much.

  208. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:22 am

    Tar – in fairness, I don’t remember anyone who was unwilling to forgive Arod after he admitted the first time and promised never to do it again.

  209. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:22 am

    Blake

    What would be the AAV of that lineup? Wouldn’t it be more than, the current options, and would Tanaka still fit under the current AAV payroll of 203M or would you need to subtract McCann?

  210. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:22 am

    when the yankees signed damon, he spoke well of boston.

    i dont remember any talk of disrepect from ellsbury

    but the seattle 2b felt the need to crap on his former team.”

    Yeah especially because Theo went to the press and said Damon “was all about the money”.

    And Ellsbury was “all about the money”.

    Cashman took the fist “crap” just like he always seem to do now. And gullible fans like you eat it up.

  211. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Trish-Read between the lines. The lead is always buried somewhere at the mid to bottom of the post.
    Fans are stupid. You are not as smart as me, as I know better.
    That’s about it. Same thing all the time.

  212. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:15 am

    jap

    I didn’t make up anything. I simply said it would surprise me if Cano was outed based on who he keeps company with.
    ////

    What are you talking about?

    You just threw wisdom at the Yankees for not getting encumbered with a 10-year deal on Cano based on an imaginary PED use.

    You don’t see what’s wrong with that, yet you make side remarks to attempt to muzzle people who are spitting mad they did not re-sign they best player.

    Do as you please, unlike you, I don’t feel the need to control discussion and try to tell people what they can and can’t discuss, based on my own subjective desires.

    I, in kind, will post about anything I want to that concerns my baseball team and the moves they do and don’t make.

  213. joeman January 25th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am
    Cano making that right hand turn half way up the baseline towards first pissed me off
    ============================
    I’m glad he’s gone for that alone.
    But he was “conserving” energy.
    —————————-
    I guess

  214. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    “I’m not sure why AAV matters more than the committed money? That’s what this all came down to, not signing Cano. The committed money, the years, not the AAV. I think you have to stick to those parameters to be fair.”

    Yes it may have….but I’m not sure it should have given the 2 players we are talking about

  215. joeman January 25th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    going to really like Ellsbury play

  216. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    “Trish-Read between the lines. The lead is always buried somewhere at the mid to bottom of the post.
    Fans are stupid. You are not as smart as me, as I know better.
    That’s about it. Same thing all the time.”

    Ah, now I’ve got ya.

    Yeah that stuff is so weak – but never ending.

  217. blake January 25th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    What would be the AAV of that lineup? Wouldn’t it be more than, the current options, and would Tanaka still fit under the current AAV payroll of 203M or would you need to subtract McCann?”

    About the same as it is currently if they sign Drew

  218. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:27 am

    jap

    Don’t be so melodramatic.

    If Cano is found to be using it wouldn’t surprise me. End of story.

  219. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Yeah especially because Theo went to the press and said Damon “was all about the money”.

    And Ellsbury was “all about the money”.

    Cashman took the fist “crap” just like he always seem to do now. And gullible fans like you eat it up.
    ///

    I don’t know what happened to Cashman, honestly, unless he has just been Levine’d and is a mouthpiece for his bosses.

    Jorge’s “that’s how he rolls, now ” demonstrates a change in character or at least, behavior.

    Gee, you think it might offend some fans that they seem to delight in demeaning their own players?

    If they didn’t want to get second-guessed, they should have tried something different: decency and respect.

  220. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    “Tar – in fairness, I don’t remember anyone who was unwilling to forgive Arod after he admitted the first time and promised never to do it again.”

    Trish

    The thing is, just about any player in his shoes would have said and done the same thing.

    Alex and Steroids and lying and reusing are not rare and unique things. Do you believe Roberts statement that he only used one time? Of course you shouldn’t, because it is almost assuredly not true. He said what he had to say to keep what he could of his reputation and career.

  221. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:29 am

    joeman

    I agree. Ellsbury will be fun to watch.

  222. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:29 am

    The length of the contract his associates is what did him in.

    *****

    sounds about right

  223. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    RIB it was so freaking obvious I can’t even believe you arguing that point.

    ———————-

    Exactly the guy went from a bean pole to hulk jr playing in Oakland with Big Mac.

  224. exiledintampa January 25th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    I think the Randy Levine text to A-Rod is the tell on Robbie and roids. If he was a user Levine never would have joked that he should use to A-rod. It was mutually known by both that Robbie was clean.

  225. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:32 am

    Tar, what Cashman said turned out to be the case. I think he was between a rock and a hard place because this was the most watched signing of the off season, and when he probably realized that the Yankees weren’t going to match Seattle’s offer, he put that information out there about the money. Maybe he felt that if he didn’t say anything, fans would think the Yankees just didn’t bother. For Cashman to have said that, you know that his agent had to have transmitted that information to the Yankees.

    A lot of people feel that if Boras was still his agent, Cano would have ended up with the Yankees.

  226. Doreen January 25th, 2014 at 11:32 am

    I try to stay balanced about these things. I try to see if there are two sides to the matter.

    On the surface, it makes absolutely no sense for the Yankees not to go all out to retain Robby. He was the best overall player on the market, he is a durable player, and they have an infield in flux which Robby would have stabilized. I felt like if Robby was not a Yankee, the Yankees would have been all over him, yet, they have shown some restraint in the past several years, so it wasn’t a slam dunk, either. They were not going to be the one crazy team, even for their own guy. And then there’s the whole Alex situation. Everything was rosy with Alex until he opted out and the re-signed him to a crazy contract. And then little by little it all started falling apart. Seriously, a part of me does not blame the Yankees for not wanting to sign a player to his 41st year in one fell swoop.

    But because it seems to make no real sense, you really do have to ask yourselves why the Yankees were if not okay with letting Robby go, at least had prepared themselves for the likelihood. So looking at the entire situation, I believe somewhere along the line staying in NY was not #1 priority to Robby. That’s his prerogative. And it was not #1 priority for the Yankees to keep him here. That’s there prerogative. The entire situation says to me that there is more here than meets the eye. On both sides.

  227. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:33 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:27 am

    jap

    Don’t be so melodramatic.
    ///

    Rhapsody in Blue, if you can manage it, try not to attribute guilt of breaking MLB’s anti-drug policy to a player for whom you have zero proof of doing so.

  228. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Blake I see you answered above.
    So it’s Cano and Ichiro 23.5+6.5=30 instead of Ellsbury 21,857,143 plus Roberts 2= 23,857,143

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

    So maybe they do Garza at 13 instead of Tanaka at 22,847,152
    And come out 3M or so ahead.

    Not sure if that is the case I’d like that.

  229. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Exactly Doreen.
    But some want ed him back , whatever the cost.
    Go figure…

  230. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:35 am

    With Masahiro Tanaka, Hiroki Kuroda and Ichiro Suzuki, the 2014 Yankees will have more Japanese star power than any Major League team ever, writes FOX Sports’ Jon Morosi. Kuroda, in particular, could be especially helpful as Tanaka adapts to U.S. baseball.

  231. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:35 am

    jap

    I am entitled to my opinions as well as my suspicions the last time I checked.

    You can then disagree. Don’t try to mute me.

  232. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:36 am

    mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:11 am
    They turned him down due to their old outdated policy.
    =============
    Do you know what he wanted to extend?

    ———————-

    Not the actual deal but the point is he wanted to be here and expressed it. I can’t wait until the next Yankee prospect that becomes a star comes up and wants to get paid. I want to see the reactions of some fans.

  233. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:36 am

    Suk-min Yoon – let’s go get him

    http://camdendepot.blogspot.co.....tcher.html

  234. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    “I don’t know what happened to Cashman, ”

    Simple, power corrupts.

    I was always a big Cashman fan, then he consolidated his power. Possibly at the same time he went through a mid life crisis episode . Sorry now I think it’s way past time for him to go, or at least move from his current job.

  235. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    Doreen

    My question is why would Cano, then choose the Mariners in a very tough division with the Rangers, A’s and Angels. If he wanted to maximize his chances at the playoffs he would have lessened his monetary demands and gone elsewhere.

  236. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:39 am

    JY: He had been drawing some scouts, I think, but more of them attended his games in 2013 than in previous years, perhaps. It was probably difficult for scouts because he was mostly pitching out of the pen and you just did not know when he would take the mound. I think some teams still may have reservations about Yoon’s shoulder issues, though I am sure Scott Boras and company are trying to defuse such concerns. Also, his peripheral numbers from his most recent season do not really stand out even though I understand scouts will look at more than just stats. Just by looking at his numbers (strikeout ratio, walk rate, home runs allowed, etc.), you could even argue he has been in decline since winning the 2011 MVP. Having said that, I know some teams will look past those stats. I feel that he has the physical tools to succeed in the big leagues, if given a fair chance.

    Yoon has also been adamant that he wants to be a starter, which may or may not have thrown off some teams who were considering him as a reliever.

  237. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Tar – here is the difference, and I know you are objective and fair enough to be able to at least understand this. While someone may not believe what a player is saying, without evidence to the contrary, it’s hard to want to banish a person.

    In Arod’s case, we know now that he never stopped using – and still he continues to deny. I’ve told you before that I would like every user drummed out of the game. Every time there’s an expose and the player falls on his sword, it seems that there’s forgiveness. (In addition, the penalty is spelled out for first-time users.) But if you find out about a second time, after a person has publicly apologized and promised never to do it again, and you find it’s been going on for the past three years, you really can’t blame someone for having extremely negative feelings about that player.

  238. Blojaldo January 25th, 2014 at 11:40 am

    A-Rod was a cheater and Cano although a skilled athlete didn’t hustle and that contract would have been a disaster. They are gone, it’s a new day, a new dawn and I like the clean slate and this team right now.

    Injuries are always a fear, but Sabathia, Kuroda, Tanaka, Nova and Pineda has the potential to be one of the best rotations in baseball. And Ellsbury, McCann, Beltran, Jeter, Soriano, Tex, Gardner, etc., are going to score a lot of runs.

    We’ll see. I can’t wait!

  239. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Stone-

    Kuroda has already said that he is willing to help Tanaka. :)

  240. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:41 am

    exiledintampa January 25th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    I think the Randy Levine text to A-Rod is the tell on Robbie and roids. If he was a user Levine never would have joked that he should use to A-rod. It was mutually known by both that Robbie was clean.
    ///

    You know, I don’t see how a serious discussion even happens around this.

    One poster decides to throw a mud pie at a player, (there have been others who have done the same thing, here).

    It’s friggin’ psychology 101: make a demon of the guy who has left; it’s what Cashman did with his “he’s all about the money” quote, and what they Yankees put Kay up to all year long, by discrediting Cano every chance he got.

    The reality is, Cano isn’t on 2B any more and he either should be there, or the Yankees should have something to show for his not being there.

    And the other fact is, we have no ready INF from the system.

    Failing upgrading the spot through a trade, they need to go all out on IFAs (one thing they have continued to do is sign IFAs, though; they just have not forked over for the big-ticket, “ready” players, which has hurt them) and find one who can play pronto.

    They probably should do both.

    But they obviously had no intention of bringing Cano back, which is why Michael Kay went ballistic all effing year on the guy, while ignoring that he was killing it with RISP all season long and that his OBP was terrific, along with hitting for average and driving the ball.

  241. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 25th, 2014 at 11:42 am

    “The entire situation says to me that there is more here than meets the eye. On both sides.”

    I’d say that’s fair.

  242. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:43 am

    But some want ed him back , whatever the cost.

    ————————

    Not true even the ppl that wanted him back didn’t want him for 10 yrs.

  243. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Tyler Colvin still out there – Baltimore reneged on deal because of back issues – however Colvin had a very good 2012 – 2013 was a lost season – he has played all 3 OF positions plus can play 1b

    look at his 2012: .290 BA, low obp .327, really good slugging .531 – with 18 HRs, his k:bb rate is not good (something i look for) – but the short porch in YS could be interesting with potential lefty power –

    Now i prefer a DeAza to replace Gardner if he is traded to help IF or rotation – but Colvin could be an interesting option 4th OFer – IF he could stay healthy – which appears to be a big question mark

  244. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:43 am
    But some want ed him back , whatever the cost.

    ————————

    Not true even the ppl that wanted him back didn’t want him for 10 yrs.

    *****

    agree odd – how are you doing this Saturday morning??

  245. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    “RIB it was so freaking obvious I can’t even believe you arguing that point.

    ———————-

    Exactly the guy went from a bean pole to hulk jr playing in Oakland with Big Mac.”

    I’m still waiting to hear back on that one…. crickets.

    Let me guess Cashman and the Yankees did not know that Giambi was using until after Balco….yeah ok.

    Why have no GM’s been suspended for signing known PED users? If i was part of the players union and wanted to toughen up the JDA I would insist on it.

  246. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    ooops – meant odds

  247. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:46 am

    If no Baker, what about Romine for Keppinger w/ the Sox? I have always liked Keppinger’s contact ability – plus if you look at his career he has one off year one on year – maybe we get that on year after an off year last year!!!

  248. mick January 25th, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Not the actual deal but the point is he wanted to be here and expressed it. I can’t wait until the next Yankee prospect that becomes a star comes up and wants to get paid. I want to see the reactions of some fans.
    ===================================
    Isn’t it the actual deal that matters?
    It’s the same scenario as what just happened.
    No player is going to dictate the terms of a contract.
    The Yanks will overpay, only if they want to..

  249. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Red Sox CEO: Money can’t buy Yankees a title

    http://nypost.com/2014/01/24/r.....s-a-title/

    Ahh yes it can and it has

  250. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:48 am

    Tar January 25th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    “I don’t know what happened to Cashman, ”

    Simple, power corrupts.

    I was always a big Cashman fan, then he consolidated his power. Possibly at the same time he went through a mid life crisis episode . Sorry now I think it’s way past time for him to go, or at least move from his current job.
    ///

    I was also a big supporter, for several years, here, and also on PSD.

    He’s lost me as a GM through bad trades, poor self scouting, and totally mismanaging the farm.

    As a person, he has basically behaved toward his own players like someone who has some issues that should seek more appropriate channels and outlets. But I have no doubt, too, that Levine and Hal’s views of the “inventory” have helped shape the FO speak.

    Eppler is being groomed for the spot. Not sure how that helps.

  251. Yankee Trader January 25th, 2014 at 11:49 am

    More on Tanaka from Japan:

    Tanaka’s former Rakuten teammates Manabu Mima, Shinichiro Koyama, and Ryohei Isaka wore Yankee caps during workouts at Kobo Stadium on Friday. Mima purchased the caps (five of them at about 5,000 yen a pop) the day before. … The Eagles have reportedly given up on holding a farewell ceremony for Tanaka because of scheduling problems. [Sponichi 1/24/2014)

    Tanaka might not leave for the United States until some time around February 10. He is expected to continue his workouts at Kobo Stadium until then. He will not have anyone to work out with in February since Rakuten players will be in Okinawa for spring camp. Yoshiki Sato could step in and help. [Daily Sports 1/25/2014]

    UPDATE @ 5:04pm – Tanaka worked out at Kobo Stadium today. With regards to his uniform number, he told reports he had no special feelings for the number eighteen and had no particular reason for picking the number nineteen. [Daily Sports 1/25/2014]

    UPDATE @ 6:26pm – ZakZak’s Yoshifumi Ejiri notes that fans in Japan might not have a chance to see Tanaka pitch in the next WBC because of his decision to sign with the Yankees. [ZakZak 1/25/2014]

  252. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:50 am

    “I’m still waiting to hear back on that one…. crickets.”

    I answered you more than once and this is the last time.

    Giambi was outed with the balco revelations long after he signed with the Yankees.

    If you want to try to rewrite history be my guest.

  253. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:51 am

    Th’abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power

    True dat

  254. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am
    Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:43 am
    But some want ed him back , whatever the cost.

    ————————

    Not true even the ppl that wanted him back didn’t want him for 10 yrs.

    *****

    agree odd – how are you doing this Saturday morning??

    ——–

    I’m fine Stone thanks for asking.

    It’s nice to have you back.

    How are you doing?

  255. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:53 am

    If you want to try to rewrite history be my guest.

    ——————

    No history is being re written. Giambi was a juice head just like Sosa and Mcguire before him. He profiled as a user from the change in body type to the big seasons he put up.

  256. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2014 at 11:54 am

    Whatever the reason, he’s gone and the Yanks are going to miss him. Especially if there is an injury on the offense somewhere. That’s why the Yanks have to find a little more production in the infield somewhere.

  257. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:54 am

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:35 am

    jap

    I am entitled to my opinions as well as my suspicions the last time I checked.

    You can then disagree. Don’t try to mute me.
    ///

    You are joking, aren’t you??

  258. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:56 am

    Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:52 am
    Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am
    Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:43 am
    But some want ed him back , whatever the cost.

    ————————

    Not true even the ppl that wanted him back didn’t want him for 10 yrs.

    *****

    agree odd – how are you doing this Saturday morning??

    ——–

    I’m fine Stone thanks for asking.

    It’s nice to have you back.

    How are you doing?

    ****

    Doing well. Looking forward to ST and just having some baseball back!!

  259. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Isn’t it the actual deal that matters?

    ——————

    Sure it does which is why when they approached him in ST of 2013 with the idea of extending it didn’t happen because they missed the opportunity to do. If he was willing to sign on with yrs left on his deal why try to extend him with only a few months left on it?

  260. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    jap

    I typically ignore your long winded tripe.

    You have the same option.

  261. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 11:59 am

    So looking at the entire situation, I believe somewhere along the line staying in NY was not #1 priority to Robby. That’s his prerogative.
    ///

    Maybe he didn’t like, and saw through, being Michael Kay’s whipping boy on nearly every broadcast, while he was gutting out playing 160 games and driving in baserunners at a dizzying clip.

    Maybe, just maybe, that got him wondering how much “respect” the Yankees had for him?

  262. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 11:59 am

    interesting side story involving A’Rod’s attorney and his once client disgraced former NYPD commissioner – just a side story if interested:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1590817

  263. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    “you really can’t blame someone for having extremely negative feelings about that player.”

    First your feeling went way beyond “negative”. Second I do not blame anyone who had negative feelings towards Alex. I get it

    Where my angst comes from is in my values and my sense of fairness.

    I believe MLB has been complicit in this mess from day one. I believe that Bud only found religion after as you say Congress forced him to. I believe he has never confessed to his sins in this matter. I believe that MLB teams have profited and encouraged the use of PEDS, and at the same time turned a blind eye towards the problem.

    I feel Alex is just a cumulative scapegoat, “witch”, for a giant mess of an problem that has been years in the making. I feel that Bud has used Alex to try and cement his legacy as a sorting parting shot. I also feel strongly about the Union and their terrible (under statement), handling of the situation.

    As for using and lying…I believe a majority of players if confronted would do the same thing. In fact how many have come out and admitted like Alex did?

  264. Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    Doing well. Looking forward to ST and just having some baseball back!!

    —————–

    So am I. The off season feels like it gets longer every yr but we’re already in late January. I’m excited to see Tanaka.

  265. Hankflorida January 25th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    It’s sad – for those of us who know what has been lost. The rest, as they say “won’t miss him”, because you don’t miss what you never knew was there.

    Alfred, “for never was a story of more woe, then the Yankees and their Cano.” I mean this in terms of Yankee history where I cannot recount the Yankees letting such a great player leave or be traded away. Someone please refresh my mind!

  266. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    jap

    I typically ignore your long winded tripe.

    You have the same option.
    ///

    Ignoring posts is fine; not to speak for anyone else here, but I’m sure we all read selectively.

    But shrieking that a player has signed elsewhere, because someone wants to continue to discuss them and your subjective whim is not to read about the player, then that is attempting to “mute” that someone.

    Ignoring is not presumptuous; the other is.

  267. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Against All Odds January 25th, 2014 at 12:02 pm
    Doing well. Looking forward to ST and just having some baseball back!!

    —————–

    So am I. The off season feels like it gets longer every yr but we’re already in late January. I’m excited to see Tanaka.

    ****

    Same here. If Tanaka starts one of the first three games in Houston to begin the year – i might go see him pitch in person!!!

  268. Revenge of Stoneburner January 25th, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    new post —–>

  269. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Giambi was outed with the balco revelations long after he signed with the Yankees.

    If you want to try to rewrite history be my guest.”

    Whatever. I call this hiding one’s head in the sand.

    Funny how your “righteousness” only extends to Length of players contracts, and when, not if, they were “outed”.

    I’m guessing you were a Giambino fan like me.

  270. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    Alfred, “for never was a story of more woe, then the Yankees and their Cano.” I mean this in terms of Yankee history where I cannot recount the Yankees letting such a great player leave or be traded away. Someone please refresh my mind!
    ///

    It is epic. And so not in a good way.

  271. mick January 25th, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    Sure it does which is why when they approached him in ST of 2013 with the idea of extending it didn’t happen because they missed the opportunity to do.
    ====================
    Do we know what the deals were?
    Maybe both sides couldn’t agree.

  272. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    Tar

    You tend to obstinate, mule headed occasionally. And this is one of those occasions.

    Later.

  273. J. Alfred Prufrock January 25th, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    jap

    I live in a world where people are honest where they take personal responsibility for their decisions and behavior.

    You seem to buy the victim hood routine. That’s ok.
    //

    I understand.

    If only you were an honest debater.

  274. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    “You tend to obstinate, mule headed occasionally”

    Well good new RIB… I’m guilty as charged which means we do agree on somethings…. other than of which color of blue is the real true blue. :D

  275. Tar January 25th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    J alfred…. I have to run ( at least attempt to be productive) have a good day

  276. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    jap

    Not so sure anyone who disagrees with your pov is being dishonest.

    Get over yourself.

  277. RhapsodyInBlue January 25th, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    One last thing.

    Any poster here who happens to comment on either AROD or Cano views contrary to what jap and tar believe can pretty much expect to be attacked.

    None of us are allowed to have an alternate view.

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