The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Short-term impact; long-term concerns

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 03, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mark Teixeira

Time and time again, this Yankees offseason has been compared to the winter of 2008-09 when the Yankees invested heavily in CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Mark Teixeira — and made a lopsided trade for Nick Swisher — and promptly won a World Series. It was a wildly successful bit of roster reconstruction, and it stands as a cautionary tale of short-term payoff vs. long-term problems.

· Sabathia finished fourth in the Cy Young voting during his first year with the Yankees. Now he’s coming off the worst season of his career with diminished velocity and increased uncertainty.
· Teixeira had a near MVP season in 2009. Now he’s coming off wrist surgery and steadily declining numbers, still trying to regain strength with Opening Day two months away.
· Burnett had his only winning season with the Yankees in ’09, and he made one of the pivotal starts of that postseason. Two years later, he was dumped for pennies on the dollar to have a career resurgence elsewhere.
· Swisher gave the Yankees four steady seasons in right field, but while he’d been a steal on the trade market, he hit the free agent market in his early 30s and immediately ceased being a bargain.

Brian McCannWhat the Yankees have done this winter is reestablished themselves as the kind of team that can thoroughly reconstruct its roster through free agency. This winter conjured memories of 08-09 because the Yankees moves were overwhelming and significant. Nearly a half-billion dollars invested in one offseason. That’s remarkable, and it’s surely given fans some cause for hope after last year’s disappointment.

But as Ray made crystal clear this morning, it’s still possible to feel more concern than elation. I tend to think that’s because investing in the free agent market always feels a bit temporary. Young players — especially homegrown players — have a lasting quality. New free agents, even if they’re in their prime, feel a little fleeting. Re-signing Robinson Cano, even though he’s technically older than Brian McCann or Jacoby Ellsbury, would have been a part of a longer investment that began well before he hit free agency. With Ellsbury and McCann, the Yankees missed out completely on their 20s. In a weird way, I think that means something. It changes the way you look at a player.

It seems to me that the average fan is more aware of the farm system than he used to be. Information about prospects is more readily available, so the name Gary Sanchez isn’t limited to only those who study Baseball America and check minor league box scores. A free agent like Cano is no longer the game’s most prized and desired commodity. It’s the young guys like Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw. It’s the short-term impact, with the hope of long-term stability.

The Yankees have proven they can still spend like no other, and that might be enough for a championship run now and then. But until they’re able to produce their own young players — impact prospects with staying power — it’s all going to feel a bit temporary and fleeting.

Associated Press photos

 
 

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106 Responses to “Short-term impact; long-term concerns”

  1. luis February 3rd, 2014 at 11:47 am

    luis February 3rd, 2014 at 11:46 am
    MTU,

    No Yankee dynasty has won without an outstanding homegrown core… Like the Core 4?, unlikely, but you can certainly have a solid core of good players… But first we need that kind of talent…So we have to suck for a few years in order to get it and build the team around that talent… We need a player development oriented organization… Not a win at all costs oriented “Steinbrenner” organization… That´s why I was all for a much needed rebuilding period… If you think this so called “new core” of Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran will give you sustained success, you are bound for a big dissapointment

  2. MTU February 3rd, 2014 at 11:52 am

    The Yankee have produced their own in the past and they will continue to do so in the future.

    :)

  3. MTU February 3rd, 2014 at 11:58 am

    no Luis.

    That is not what I was thinking of as a core.

    A core by definition includes some homegrown players.

    I think we can and will still do that.

    The question, and point of departure, might be in the quantity and quality of those new core
    players.

    I don’t think as you do that we have to suck to get them. Nor do they have to be stars.

    Guys emerge from draft from many levels.

    It makes it more likely if you draft higher but it’s not necessary.

    Take a look at the Cardinals organization. Lot’s of useful guys pulled from various levels of the draft.

    Take D-rob or GGBG as our examples.

    ;)

  4. pat February 3rd, 2014 at 11:59 am

    RichSandomir
    Former ESPN prez George Bodenheimer said last nite that he declined offer to be considered candidate for MLB commissioner

  5. blake February 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    So thanks to Apple for apparently sneaking some software update in where car chargers no longer work unless it’s apple brand. What a rip off

  6. pat February 3rd, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    juicepressny
    read about @teixeiramark25, our new @SohoStrengthLab location, & our big plans for the future in the @nypost: http://ow.ly/tdSPu

  7. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    It’s clear that you can’t win solely through free agency, but that doesn’t mean you should bypass it either. What the Yankees hoped they were doing with the additions of Swisher, Tex, AJ and CC in 09 and Granderson a year later, was hope that they, along with Cano, Hughes and Joba would usher in a new era of greatness anchored by a very strong pitching staff and dynamic position players. It didn’t work out.

    What the Yankees are doing now is similar but not entirely the same. I’m sure that (along with fans) the Yankees themselves have visions of Tanaka, Pineda, Nova and Banuelos forming a tremendous rotation for the next 6 years. That Ellsbury will be the veteran presence in an outfield where he’ll be flanked by Mason Williams and Tyler Austin and that McCann can not only replace some of the fire the team lost when Jorge retired, but be a bridge to Gary Sanchez.

    And I’m sure that in this ideal world the players who the Yankees don’t have room for are thought of highly enough around baseball so that they can go out and trade for high level young players at positions of need.

    The problem is that all those guys (at least the position players) are two years away from being major leaguers and lots can happen in two years. We’ve seen a lot of changes to the scouting and development team this winter; hopefully these guys can help where others failed.

    If not, yes, four years from now we’ll be right back here looking for solutions from other organizations.

  8. Blojaldo February 3rd, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    “But until they’re able to produce their own young players — impact prospects with staying power — it’s all going to feel a bit temporary and fleeting.”

    “Feel” is not a word that’s very applicable to professional sports, I would say winning is much more important. If the Yankees win it all in 2014, will any fans be bemoaning the fact that we won because of McCann, Beltran and Ellsbury? I highly doubt it.

    And Luis, why do we have to “suck?” Our lineup doesn’t suck. Tanaka doesn’t suck. Kuroda and Sabathisa don’t suck. Robertson doesn’t suck. Neither do the position players I mentioned above and many others on this team. If you think the Yankees will ever commit to “rebuilding” in the traditional way, gutting and starting over, I don’t think you are correct.

    Is it a positive to develop home grown, cost controlled talent? Of course it is, and a big one at that. But that will happen over time, and in the interim, we want to win and free agent signings, making an impact in the international market and a few trades if you can is an absolutely effective and smart way to proceed.

  9. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    I think the key to consistently winning is a competent front office. I don’t really think how the personnel is put together is nearly as important.

  10. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    Some how Jeff Loria is going to end up replacing Selig.

  11. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Michael Kay is one of those people that retweets compliments. He’s terrible.

  12. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Shame,

    The change in ownership came at the worst time for the Yankees. There were fundamental shifts in the way the business side of baseball was being handled and Hal wasn’t engrained enough in the sport to know how to deal with it, leaving Levine to make the decisions and as talented as Randy is when it comes to business, he’s not a baseball guy.

  13. pat February 3rd, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    and Kay just gave them 100′s/1000′s of new followers because a mock account is probably going to be better than his real account…..

    RealMichaelKay
    Heads up to all: I have no affiliation with @michaelkayyes. Neither does YES. It is a fake, mock account. Ignore it.

  14. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    I really like the moves the Yankees have made in the last two years when it comes to the instructional side of things.

    Patterson, Quade, Hillman are all good teachers that hopefully will be able to work with these kids and help them continue their progressions.

    Now, if only they would fire Nardi

  15. MTU February 3rd, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    Chip-

    Talk about funny.

    Wolf replaces wolf guarding the henhouse.

    :)

  16. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Chip – I’m not so sure they’re any better equipped now than before. Levine has actually become a more prominent figure in the FO over the last couple of years, which doesn’t inspire confidence that they’re doing better business now than before.

  17. MTU February 3rd, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Shame-

    3 more years to find out.

    ;)

  18. MTU February 3rd, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    Get me Bailey next year.

    Harper the year after.

    Trade a Pitcher and catcher for a solid young IF.

    See. I’m happy.

    :)

  19. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    As far as the today’s pinch hitter…reminds me of what I picked up to get my dog checked for worms…think it was the worst one I’ve seen so far. Just more credence lent to the sky is falling crew. It’s what gives Lohud it’s negative reputation. What happens if they have a good year, Ray going to come back…oops…my bad, never mind.
    If it’s what drives people like Wanzies away, more good people will disappear.

  20. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    Shame,

    I think the difference is that Hal has seen what happens when the team isn’t playoff caliber and understands, from a business side, that it is more damaging than any financial penalties associated with the luxury tax.

    I also think that the mandate that the team has to do better when it comes to their farm system, and not just give lip service to the problem, makes them a better organization. Too many of Cash’s lieutenants have been made too comfortable despite their failings because, other than Brian, no one in the organization paid attention to the farm system.

    Now that the farm system cost Hal the chance to get under $189 by offering no solutions, that era ends.

  21. luis February 3rd, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    Blojaldo,

    I was thinking about a rebuilding process, like the one we had in the early 90´s… Having a couple of bad seasons could help on that regard

  22. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    Luis you really can’t talk about winning in the past without a homegrown core, because you’re only talking about two winning eras during the free agent period..before that every team had a home grown core…it’s just the way baseball was.

  23. Blojaldo February 3rd, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Amen Howler. Good grief. In the last twenty years the Yankees have won five world championships and seven AL pennants. That’s .250 and .350. What pro sports team has that record?

  24. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Luis,

    Different era. You can’t charge what the Yankees want for tickets or ad sales if you’re a bad team for a couple of years. Last season, which wasn’t bottoming out, cost them a ton of money.

  25. Blojaldo February 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    luis February 3rd, 2014 at 12:22 pm
    Blojaldo,

    I was thinking about a rebuilding process, like the one we had in the early 90´s… Having a couple of bad seasons could help on that regard
    ——————

    How so? Higher draft picks don’t guaranty anything. Recognize these number one picks? Brien Taylor, Matt Bush and Steve Chilcott?

    “Of the 400 ballplayers selected in the top-10 from 1965-2004, 95 of them—23.75 percent—failed to make it to the big leagues.”

  26. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    Chip – I guess I just don’t follow your logic… you say no one besides Cash paid attention to the farm but he’s the very guy that’s gotten marginalized so…..?? That’s better business?

    I am not convinced based on this one off season of mass spending (that still notches them a couple tens of millions below last year’s payroll, and leaves the INF as a major concern) that they’re operating any smarter. For the moment, I see a team that’s interested in competing just enough. And again, the farm was not supposed to – by any measure – be effective so soon. Anyone tracking the best and brightest in the system would have known that. I’m not yet encouraged.

  27. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    There are also plenty of teams with young, talented, homegrown cores that don’t win a thing – think of the Indians in the 90s, Phillies a few years ago, Rays….really the Giants, Boston last year and the Cards a couple of years ago are the only ones who have won with the “home grown” model over the last decade.

  28. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    I could live with them having a couple bad seasons, but the FA compensation kills that because you know they’re going to go after available players to help fix things. The fans will scream for it, they have the money to do it. As was said earlier, it’s a system really made to punish the players.

  29. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    Harper the year after.

    ==============================

    Harper not a free agent til after the 2018 season.

  30. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Shame,

    I think that Cashman was satisfied with the fact that the farm system was working slowly and developing a bench guy here or reliever there. No one paid for the fact that they ruined Joba or Hughes, that they totally wiffed in drafting Culver and Bichette…I think now that ownership is taking a more active interest in the success of the farm system that the organization will allocate more resources to it.

  31. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    If you wanna start from scratch and say, ‘okay, I’m erasing everything that’s happened since 2008 and am evaluating them beginning now,’ that’s totally fine. But I have trouble with that approach. Hal understood what missing the playoffs in 2008 meant…

  32. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    There are also plenty of teams with young, talented, homegrown cores that don’t win a thing – think of the Indians in the 90s,

    =====================================

    The Indians in the 90′s were chronically in the postseason. Homegrown core doesn’t guarantee titles, but it sure does help in remaining a contender for an extended period of time.

  33. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    I think now that ownership is taking a more active interest in the success of the farm system that the organization will allocate more resources to it.

    —————-

    I mean, I hope you’re right.

    But that first part of your post regarding Cashman being satisfied with developing very small complimentary players through the farm doesn’t jive with his public statements (or the treatment of certain prospects, like Hughes).

  34. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Howler,

    You’re not the fan they care about – none of us on this blog are. The Yankees need to keep the average fan who jumped on board in the mid-90s when things were good. They know we’ll stick around, it’s that guy who they want to appeal to.

  35. luis February 3rd, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Chip,

    I agree… But it won´t work.. It is a vicious cycle.

    Howler,

    My point was and is that All Yankee Dynasties have won with a homegrown core, regardless of era… With the exception of 1977-78 at the dawn of FA… If the formula would have been outdated, we wouldn´t have enjoyed the success we have had in the past 17 years… OTOH, Ray makes a very compelling argument on why the FA reliant model doesn´t work… Especially now with a draft, IFA money pool and penalties, the new Japanese posting system and so on… They need to concentrate on player development

  36. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    I think maybe we should be more specific because I don’t think we need a homegrown core of superstars like we were treated to in the 90s/00s. I think developing guys like Gardner or Robertson are good examples of the types of players we should hope to produce through the system. Compliment those guys with FA’s, trades, IFAs and you have a solid club. Bret will cry at the thought, but we need more Gardners.

  37. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Guys… I just made fun of Michael Kay for retweeting compliments and he retweeted it lol.

    #Win

  38. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Shame,

    A lot of what Brian does doesn’t jive with his public statements. You have to look at his actions. If he was that concerned with the development of the farm then the pitching failures that were Hughes, Joba, Betances and Brackman would have cost Nardi his job. The awful record of first round picks (CJ Henry, Cito Culver, Dante Bichette, Brackman) would have cost Oppenheimer his job. The failure to evaluate your own talent (Jackson, Kennedy, Quintana, Montero, Clippard, Abe Almonte) would have cost someone their job.

  39. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    Thanks for the guest post, Ray. Like I have been saying the FA model is antiquated; we need to develop our own while adding some FAs to that mix versus relying on FA’s to be our core. The unhappy fact is that most in their prime FA’s do not get to FA; teams lock them up early. Especially position players. Same old debate. But it is the new MLB reality. We will be lucky if any of the in-prime players we covet get to FA. If they do, take the plunge, but you cannot RELY on FAs. Now IFA’s, internationals, well, that is another story… at least in the short term, buy them up, as we are finally doing. Props on that count.

    As for our prospects, the recent rankings are just cosmetic and based solely on stats without qualifiers and injury factor; this is the same farm system that was ranked at the cusp of the top 10 last season, and that was BEFORE the new draft. I am optimistic if the kids stay healthy that they can and will take a step forward. We have some high end talent at position, just have to see how they develop. As for pitching prospects, we have some very good ones, but they now need to take that one step up in class and stay healthy. I think ManBan will be better than ever. Excited too to see Hensley through with hip rotation. Hopefully, they stay away from Patterson’s cutter-happy clutches. Although sounds like everyone and his brother is learning the cutter this offseason. :(

    FYI, for people who were saying so in the last thread, Aldred isn’t a new org guy, he has been with us since 2007, first with Trenton as pitching coach and then with SWB the last five years.

    As for Mesa, I spent many a Trenton night over the last few years, seeing him strike out on 3 straight curveballs. Unfortunate, but reality.

    Love that we are getting updates on ST already, but why isn’t McCarron telling us how Jeet looks fielding the ball? Meanwhile outside it is snowing, snowing, snowing… but I can almost taste and smell live baseball…

  40. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Hensley *throw with hip rotation, should read.

  41. Blojaldo February 3rd, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    FA is not a “model.” It’s what you do when you “need” to and it works. It worked in 2009 and it could very well work in 2014. Yankee fans are lucky we have a club and management that can afford to spend and is willing to do so.

  42. yanks61 February 3rd, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    “No Yankee dynasty has won without an outstanding homegrown core…”

    The 76 – 78 Yankees won 3 straight pennants and came back to win a fourth in 1980. I think that at least qualifies as mini-dynasty. Those teams had how many home grown players?
    The 77 and 78 teams only had about 7 home grown players out of roughly 36 that were on the roster at one time or another.

    Yes, of course it’s great to have as many home grown players as possible. But no Yankee fans in those days were unhappy winning with FA and players for whom the Yanks had traded.

    MTU is exactly right, it’s not the Yankee modus operandi to develop an all home grown team. It’s not practical from the standpoint of their usual drafting position and it’s not practical financially, because most Yankee fans wouldn’t stand for the wait, a la the Rays and other teams that have gone that route. The Core Four of recent times were a once in a life time phenomenon. Dreaming about that happening again is just that – a dream.

    Of course it’s also the case that times have once again changed and the Yanks will need to depend more on the farm, for both their own roster and for trades, as fewer FA will be available in their prime years. But it is extremely unlikely that it will ever be the case that the Yanks will depend primarily on the farm in the future. It’s just one part of the equation – albeit an important one.

  43. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    “They need to concentrate on player development”

    luis, well, this is not solely our idea, even though we have been proponents of its critical role in the Yankees long-term health and ability to thrive for several plus years now; it is our illustrious GM’s and Hal’s mantra, as well. So, those who are poo pooing the concept of farm development as essential to Yankee success aren’t listening to the edicts of their own front office. Even though they have failed at development thus far, it is still a necessary and preferred Yankee goal by those in charge.

    And luis, you have email.

  44. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    I think developing guys like Gardner or Robertson are good examples of the types of players we should hope to produce through the system. Compliment those guys with FA’s, trades…

    =================================

    Kinda think it should be just the opposite.

  45. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    I understand what you’re saying Luis…but before the FA era…every team was built with a homegrown core…so there was no other way…it was how you made your team. So any dynasty they had, or any other team had came from a homegrown core. It was the only way, aside from a few trades to fill in some holes.
    Ray’s post was Debbie Downer with rocket red glare…and flags waving with the marching band playing in the background.

  46. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    Right, FA’s should complement young cost-controlled, in prime core players.

  47. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Shame,

    A lot of what Brian does doesn’t jive with his public statements. You have to look at his actions. If he was that concerned with the development of the farm then the pitching failures that were Hughes, Joba, Betances and Brackman would have cost Nardi his job. The awful record of first round picks (CJ Henry, Cito Culver, Dante Bichette, Brackman) would have cost Oppenheimer his job. The failure to evaluate your own talent (Jackson, Kennedy, Quintana, Montero, Clippard, Abe Almonte) would have cost someone their job.

    —————

    Okay, I guess I’m just confused why you think Hal will make major changes to the farm when he couldn’t evaluate the above as the head of his organization. I just don’t know why I should believe he’s paying more attention now. Cash is still the GM. Shouldn’t he be fired if Hal is now paying attention, given the above?

    I just don’t see recent events as being a strong indicator that we’re headed for a new dawn. I want them to convince me, but the past 6 years haven’t inspired confidence.

  48. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    You can’t build a team on just one or the other, best scenario is to have a solid group of your own players…but you’ll always have to fill the gaps with good trades or FA. In some instances it’s the other way around, more trades and FA, and fill the gaps with your young players.
    Right now that’s the way the Yankees seem to be going until the minors can hopefully start providing again.

  49. yanks61 February 3rd, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:21 pm
    As far as the today’s pinch hitter…reminds me of what I picked up to get my dog checked for worms…think it was the worst one I’ve seen so far. Just more credence lent to the sky is falling crew. It’s what gives Lohud it’s negative reputation. What happens if they have a good year, Ray going to come back…oops…my bad, never mind.
    If it’s what drives people like Wanzies away, more good people will disappear.

    Ha, ha, Howler, the sky is always falling here, even though the Yanks have been in the playoffs how many times since 1996? I’ve come to the conclusion that blogs like this are just a place for many people to post their anxieties. Less expensive than a psychiatrist. It’s kind of group therapy. Everybody feels better after a good shout, a good cry a good moan :)

    ———————————————————————————-

    OK, Luis I see that we agree about the 76 – 80 period.

  50. Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    I think developing guys like Gardner or Robertson are good examples of the types of players we should hope to produce through the system. Compliment those guys with FA’s, trades…

    =================================

    Kinda think it should be just the opposite.

    —————-

    If you’re of the belief that the Yankees can’t draft high end talent because their slot will always be too high, they need to find different ways to acquire it. If they hit on one superstar every decade I’d consider that a win if it came with a couple Gardners, starters and pen arms that were slightly better than league average.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock February 3rd, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    fuji February 3rd, 2014 at 10:01 am

    …..
    that said, i don’t think the yankees have bottomed out yet with their poor management.
    the fact they had to spend almost half a billion dollars to give them a chance at the playoffs show that they haven’t done the job development wise.

    the yankees get a big fail at development. this was all supposed to change when cashman took over before hughes, jobs, and ian kennedy.
    read this to see the typical optimism with hughes at the time :
    http://nypost.com/2008/03/05/f…..-prophecy/

    cashman has to get a big fail . it’s a no brainer, but yankee enabler fans keep supporting cashman when it’s clear he’s a fraud as a baseball development guy.

    i can’t put it any straighter than that. cashman can only survive when he spends close to half a billion dollars. he’s not the solution . he’s the problem.
    /////

    Cashman is still hanging around because a baseball novice owns the team, and because Levine and Hal can basically control Cashman.

    That said, a guy like Stick Michael never would have been controlled; George couldn’t do it, and although George was no baseball guy, after beating his chest and arguing with Michael, including hanging up on him, fake firing him, etc., he often would capitulate to Stick’s greater wisdoms.

    Stick laughing and telling reporters he “had to lie to George” that rival GMs had lost interest in Rivera and Jeter, who George wanted to deal.

    Cashman is a weak leader, whose vision is comically wrong for these Yankee Stadium Yankees.

    Overall, despite some upgrades in the lineup and a big signing of a young pitcher who could potentially significantly upgrade the staff, the Yankees let the best MIF in baseball skate – a guy they would have fallen all over if he’d played elsewhere last year and became available.

    Letting a 900 plus OPS hitter vs. RHP walk – one who made a mockery of “clutch” stats all year with resounding success in nearly every high leverage category, and one who is a left-handed hitter who hits LHP and hits over .300 – that is anathema to this whole “The Yankees are back,” BS.

    Somehow, Gene Michael would have not let Robinson Cano walk. He would have, at the very least, never have allowed him to get to free agency.

    Letting Cano walk is only permissible if you’re a pitcher who knows he can’t get him out.

  52. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Yanks61…I think after reading that the previous pinch hitter Carter might’ve decided to become a Mets fan.

  53. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Of course, you have to have a happy medium of core, FA’s, IFA’s, trades, etc. But all things being new CBA, the homegrown core must be your goal, and FA’s the compensation, add-on factor for what you yourself can’t develop.

    luis, didn’t realize you had already emailed me back. You again have email. :)

  54. yanks61 February 3rd, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 12:58 pm
    Yanks61…I think after reading that the previous pinch hitter Carter might’ve decided to become a Mets fan.

    —————————————————————–

    Howler, I realize that it’s almost certainly not the case with most people who spend most of their time complaining here that they are also negative in the rest of their lives. But I do wonder why, with all the real misery that exists in the world, that folks need to project more misery on a baseball team. For me it’s suppose to be fun, a diversion from the terrible things happening elsewhere. But I guess that’s their way of dealing with real life pain. Write page long moans on the poor way their favorite baseball team is run.

    Oh well, I look at life differently. To me it’s great to be a Yankee fan (going back to at least 1953) and celebrate our successes. They’ll be more. But meanwhile, for me, there’s no point in spending a huge swath of my life agonizing over what happens. Different horses for different courses and all that.

  55. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Just noticed Mark Teixeira’s post about the SuperBowl guess he’ll be a little surprised.

  56. yanks61 February 3rd, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Oh, and with that it’s dinner time and I’ll say goodnight. Have a great afternoon everyone.

  57. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    Yes…after all…we could be Cubs fans :)

  58. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    LOL, about Teix’s tweet. He’ll be turning that SB game off at half time at the latest.

  59. Tar February 3rd, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Good pinch hitting post Ray…. thanks.

  60. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    On YES network, just started 10 minutes ago: “Being: Mariano.”

  61. yankinvegas February 3rd, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    The Yankees are in a tough spot. Yes, the best way to build a team is organizationally. The CBA and the rules regarding international spending are designed to prevent dynasties, and aimed particularly at the Yankees, who are the only dynastic team in this era.
    The conundrum is that the Yankees play in front of a fanbase who consider a 1st round playoff loss a disaster of a season. The media in their market hate them. Other teams mock them when they spend (even though the comments from Lucchino are ridiculous)
    And the fans won’t even watch on TV if the team wins less than 90 games. All of these factors create a situation that is unique to the Yankees.
    Let’s win the WS this season and worry about the future in the future.

  62. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Hey Tar..been waiting to see you around.
    Wanted to let you know that it wasn’t you I was giving a hard time to the other day.
    I was standing up for my former journalistic sensibilities, and blamed someone for what I thought was their misdeed when it was really the place he was quoting from.

  63. Doreen February 3rd, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    Poor Tex. LOL

  64. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    I’m going to be with a group of friends tonight…wonder how hung over they’re going to be :)

  65. UpState February 3rd, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    yanks61 February 3rd, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    “No Yankee dynasty has won without an outstanding homegrown core…”
    ——————————————————————————————–

    “…it’s not the Yankee modus operandi to develop an all home grown team.
    It’s not practical from the standpoint of their usual drafting position and it’s not practical financially, because most Yankee fans wouldn’t stand for the wait, a la the Rays and other teams that have gone that route.

    The Core Four of recent times were a once in a life time phenomenon.

    Dreaming about that happening again is just that – a dream.

    ======================================================

    What other team has a ‘core 4′ similar to ours ?

    (crickets….)

    That’s what I thought.

  66. Poetkiosk February 3rd, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    The economics of a large market prohibit years of failure and/or rebuilding. With so much potential revenue at stake from advertising to merchandising you just can’t compare it with a city of 200,000 people. It’s just not a relevant comparison. Think about it this way, with so much economic pressure from a huge market such as NYC, those in charge will ALWAYS have to make decision based on profit, not some romantic notion of what a team “should” in theory look like. It doesn’t work that way. If you see the Yankees in terms of this context, you will begin to understand all of their moves. This year makes total sense if you see that they couldn’t go another season not making it even into the playoffs. Cano as well was an economic decision. For whatever reason you want to come up with he was not he type of start to put people in seats or boosting advertising (his low English skills might be one reason and his slacker persona might be another). Since he would not help out economically in the short term and a 10 year deal made no sense in the long term – he was let go.

    Also, I get the sense that many on this blog don’t live here in NYC, so the pressure exerted from the NYC fan base is hard to feel, but it is real and palpable. No way will this team ever go into building mode. If that’s what you are waiting for and if that’s what you enjoy being a part of this will never be the team for you.

  67. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    Rob Segedin ?@RobSegedin
    Tampabound

    ____
    More players heading to ST. I know Austin and Hensley are already down there.
    ___
    No one thinks or expects the Yankees to develop an all homegrown team, and dumpster divers have no better chance of winning championships than young up and coming players. Lots of teams win the WS with youth infused into their lineups. It is a Lohud fallacy that “win now” = no young, developing players. With qualifiers, YOUTH is not only the future, it is also the present and makes you a more viable opponent. and how many WS recently or playoff rounds have we won with dumpster divers. Zero.

  68. Howler February 3rd, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Okay…to the vet to make a deposit…
    Welcome back MTU.

  69. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    “For whatever reason you want to come up with he was not he type of start to put people in seats or boosting advertising (his low English skills might be one reason and his slacker persona might be another). ”
    ___
    I don’t think we know this about whether or not Cano draws. Losing doesn’t draw. As for the latter part of this, kind of judgmental and creative of you. Who says Cano is a slacker? :roll:

  70. Blojaldo February 3rd, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    Tidbit from the vault:

    Did you know that George once banned Cashman from walking behind home plate before games so he couldn’t talk to reporters?

  71. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    The Core Four of recent times were a once in a life time phenomenon.

    ———————————–

    Forget the core four can they develop something besides just relievers(although they are valuable)

  72. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    This is reductionist. Rebuild mode = integrate youth/your own players with some established players. It doesn’t mean sticking Hughes, IPK and JOba in the lineup at the same time, as Cashman so naively once did. Yankee fans want to win. Who gives you a better chance to win? Not Vernon Wells. Not Chris Stewart. I would take a young OF or JR Murphy over those guys, and I bet I win more games than you would. And if you are actually a NY’er and were at Yankee games in Sept. 2011, you would know that the fans were thrilled to watch Montero play and even came early to watch his BP. I don’t agree with the idea at all that young players can’t be “now” players and be productive. In fact, I think it is an excuse we sometimes use when the Yankees don’t integrate young players, so that we can continue to mouth the easy narrative. Dumpster divers have done nothing for this team generally. Win now means put the best team on the field regardless of age or experience.

  73. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Odds, yes, one homegrown position player under 30 would be nice for starters. :)

  74. JobaTipsHisCap February 3rd, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Now finally it’s safe to say Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning.
    oh my, what a choke job.

  75. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    because most Yankee fans wouldn’t stand for the wait

    ————————–

    The Yankees themselves can’t stand for the wait.

  76. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    No one would have been able to put up points with that crummy Denver Offensive line.

  77. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:06 pm
    Odds, yes, one homegrown position player under 30 would be nice for starters. :)

    ——————-

    That would be very nice. Do they even have a guy that can make an impact like Cano did back in 05. Is there a kid you can look at and say he’s raw and has a ways to go be he has it and he’s going to be very good in a few seasons.

  78. JobaTipsHisCap February 3rd, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    Brady might still lose the game, but not by 35 points.
    This is all time choke.

  79. UpState February 3rd, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    The previous poster said:

    “slacker persona”

    He/she did NOT say Cano was one as a fact.

    A persona is a perception.

    Mr. Cano, on more occasions that there should have been, fueled the persona as a slacker.

    It is an impression that through some of his actions/or styles, over time, that has many fans (as seen here over the years) have recognized that description.

  80. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:07 pm
    No one would have been able to put up points with that crummy Denver Offensive line.

    ———————–

    True but Peyton didn’t do himself any favors.

  81. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Upstate, I know what a persona is. Cano did not present himself as nor was he perceived by most as a slacker. So, can’t say I agree. Nor do I think the Yankees agree with that portrayal.

  82. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    http://www.myyesnetwork.com/go.....d_new_fans.

    Well these fans definitely don’t think Cano is a draw as well as other things.

  83. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    Odds, agree but a QB is not an island, and is often only as good as his offensive line. However, Denver’s “O” was pathetic. And Seattle’s D was fierce.

  84. 86w183 February 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    No doubt Brady would have blocked better, put more pressur eon Russell Wilson and certainly he would have caught that bad snap AND tackled Percy Harvin on the kick return.

    Peyton Manning was absolutely awful, but no QB could have gotten Denver a win with that total domination on both sides of the line.

  85. David in Cal February 3rd, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    Until a few years ago, the Yanks didn’t need to extend good players in the middle of their contract. They always paid the most, so they could always re-sign anyone they wanted to keep. What happened to Cano shows that this is no longer the case. The Yanks need a new strategy to cope with this new reality.

  86. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Odds, some posters on the Yes Network site. And that is somehow definitive. Especially after the player has left and they are all feeling personally insulted. Please.

  87. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    What other team has a ‘core 4? similar to ours ?

    ==============================

    Braves had a nice run with Chipper, Andruw Jones, Glavine and Justice.

  88. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    David in Cal, yep, and the Yanks themselves have known it for a few years now, but all Cash’s proclamations have shown no ability to move off the past strategy. Guess they will have to try harder. and they know that. Thank God, we had the $$$ to cover our mistakes this time, but next time… Still think the farm has lots of talent though. May we develop it soon.

  89. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Shame Spencer February 3rd, 2014 at 12:51 pm
    Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Shame,

    A lot of what Brian does doesn’t jive with his public statements. You have to look at his actions. If he was that concerned with the development of the farm then the pitching failures that were Hughes, Joba, Betances and Brackman would have cost Nardi his job. The awful record of first round picks (CJ Henry, Cito Culver, Dante Bichette, Brackman) would have cost Oppenheimer his job. The failure to evaluate your own talent (Jackson, Kennedy, Quintana, Montero, Clippard, Abe Almonte) would have cost someone their job.

    —————

    Okay, I guess I’m just confused why you think Hal will make major changes to the farm when he couldn’t evaluate the above as the head of his organization. I just don’t know why I should believe he’s paying more attention now. Cash is still the GM. Shouldn’t he be fired if Hal is now paying attention, given the above?

    I just don’t see recent events as being a strong indicator that we’re headed for a new dawn. I want them to convince me, but the past 6 years haven’t inspired confidence.
    ————————–

    Shame,

    I believe he’s paying more attention now because the failure of the farm cost him his shot at that $189 mil cap. Make no mistake, Hal still wants to reset the tax but knows that the only way that’s going to happen is if they do a better job developing their assets.

  90. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    Brady might still lose the game, but not by 35 points.
    This is all time choke.

    ================================

    Might have lost it by 45 instead. Brady had a lot less in the way of weapons than Manning had. No way they don’t get similarly drilled by the Seahawks.

  91. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Odds, agree but a QB is not an island, and is often only as good as his offensive line. However, Denver’s “O” was pathetic. And Seattle’s D was fierce

    ==========================================

    Seattle has the unique ability to get some pressure up front while still getting good coverage down field. Lot of teams can do one of those. Aside from maybe the 49ers, I’m not sure any other team could do both.

  92. blake February 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    @MLBNetworkRadio: .@JimBowdenESPNxm:Price will remain a #Rays. Friedman did due diligence, after listening to what he could get, he’s keeping him #InsidePitch

  93. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:17 pm
    Odds, agree but a QB is not an island, and is often only as good as his offensive line. However, Denver’s “O” was pathetic. And Seattle’s D was fierce.

    ———————–

    Seattle’s D was scary. They played like players back then used too…hard hits and aggression.

    Colin Cowherd brought this up months ago that when it comes to Peyton Manning lead teams they tend to be finesse in their approach and in big games when they get hit they tend to check out. Anyone agree

  94. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Bryan Hoch BryanHoch 21m
    Derek Jeter hits on field, takes ground balls at SS, according to the AP. “Everything is good so far, knock on wood,” he said.

  95. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:21 pm
    Odds, some posters on the Yes Network site. And that is somehow definitive. Especially after the player has left and they are all feeling personally insulted. Please.

    —————–

    Yea it’s weird he’s gone but over 400 posts dedicated to him.

  96. Chip February 3rd, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    AAA –

    You can’t talk about those Atlanta teams without mentioning Maddux, Smoltz and McGriff who were just as key as anyone who came through their system.

    The answer isn’t one or the other – it’s a balanced approach based on your needs, your system and what the market has to offer. I asked it on the previous thread, if Eric Jagielo has a strong season in Tampa and maybe even moves up to Trenton does that mean you don’t go after Chase Headley next year? I don’t think it does. I think you go after Headley and if Jagielo continues to progress you address that situation when he’s ML ready by either moving one of them to a different position or by dealing Eric for a position of need.

  97. blake February 3rd, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    The patriots would have got hammered just as bad or worse…..

  98. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    blake February 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 pm
    @MLBNetworkRadio: .@JimBowdenESPNxm:Price will remain a #Rays. Friedman did due diligence, after listening to what he could get, he’s keeping him #InsidePitch
    ___
    This is what I was saying when we were debating what the big Rays news was (it ended up being the Balfour signing), but I was pretty sure this would in fact happen.

  99. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    “Yea it’s weird he’s gone but over 400 posts dedicated to him.”

    Odds, those fans are just feeling in the lingo of PSD posters “butthurt.”

  100. UpState February 3rd, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 2:22 pm
    What other team has a ‘core 4? similar to ours ?

    ==============================

    Braves had a nice run with Chipper, Andruw Jones, Glavine and Justice.

    ————–

    Good call on these 4 !
    Though less successful than our 4…..
    …and even further back in MLB history.

  101. yankeefeminista February 3rd, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Go Jeet! :arrow:

  102. Against All Odds February 3rd, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    Very well said YF :)

  103. blake February 3rd, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    “Peyton Manning was absolutely awful, but no QB could have gotten Denver a win with that total domination on both sides of the line”

    I disagree he was awful…he actually got the ball in the playmakers hands a lot….they just got destroyed when they caught the ball. Denver’s game is short passes and yards after the catch and staying in tan fast rhythm to get the defense tired. Peyton got the completions…..Seattle is just so fast and such a good tackling teams that they snuffed out the yards after the catch and Denver never got in a flow other than the one drive they scored on.

    Add in the takeaways on fumbles and interceptions and miscommunications on snaps and it was a massacre…..but it was much more about Seattle than about how Manning played IMO…..I’m not sure any QB ever was scoring much against that D last night…..they would have had to run the ball to open it up and they couldn’t do that

  104. AAA February 3rd, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    You can’t talk about those Atlanta teams without mentioning Maddux, Smoltz and McGriff who were just as key as anyone who came through their system

    ================================================

    Sure, just as you can’t talk about the Yankees “core 4″ teams without mentioning Tino, O’Neill, Clemens/Key/Cone etc.

  105. Poetkiosk February 3rd, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    “Upstate, I know what a persona is. Cano did not present himself as nor was he perceived by most as a slacker. So, can’t say I agree. Nor do I think the Yankees agree with that portrayal.”

    I disagree with this. As Kay described time and time again, Cano ran into trouble with Giarardi and Cashman for not running to first, for not diving for balls and for overall not giving the impression that he was a hustler. And even at the very end, while they were still negotiating, Cashman said he was informed that all Cano cared about was the money. I don’t have any reason to believe Cashman was lying when he said that.

    On a personal note, watching almost every game Cano played, he would often do things that made him look like a slacker – like popping a bubble while lackadaisically turning to throw the ball to first and sometimes missing the man at first. Or he would casually try to flip pass a ball to 2B and again not get it there in time.

    To be fair, and why I used the word “persona” and not just straight up call him a slacker- I really don’t know if he was a “slacker” he just kind of gave off that vibe or appearance as a player. Now the term “slacker” isn’t very descriptive, so you might be simply disagreeing with a easily misinterpreted word – you might also say “casual play style”, “lack of hustle” etc. These are all pretty common associates with Cano as a player.

  106. UpState February 3rd, 2014 at 2:45 pm

    Poetkiosk February 3rd, 2014 at 2:39 pm
    “Upstate, I know what a persona is. Cano did not present himself as nor was he perceived by most as a slacker. So, can’t say I agree. Nor do I think the Yankees agree with that portrayal.”

    I disagree with this. As Kay described time and time again, Cano ran into trouble with Giarardi and Cashman for not running to first, for not diving for balls and for overall not giving the impression that he was a hustler. And even at the very end, while they were still negotiating, Cashman said he was informed that all Cano cared about was the money. I don’t have any reason to believe Cashman was lying when he said that.

    On a personal note, watching almost every game Cano played, he would often do things that made him look like a slacker – like popping a bubble while lackadaisically turning to throw the ball to first and sometimes missing the man at first. Or he would casually try to flip pass a ball to 2B and again not get it there in time.

    To be fair, and why I used the word “persona” and not just straight up call him a slacker- I really don’t know if he was a “slacker” he just kind of gave off that vibe or appearance as a player. Now the term “slacker” isn’t very descriptive, so you might be simply disagreeing with a easily misinterpreted word – you might also say “casual play style”, “lack of hustle” etc. These are all pretty common associates with Cano as a player.
    ==========================

    Apologies on my poor ‘cut & paste’ job.

    I agree with you 100%.

    I was attempting to support your thoughts.

    (other poster felt differently than we do)

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