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Thursday morning notes: One way or another, Pineda limited this season

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 13, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Michael Pineda, Francisco Cervelli

Two things to consider as Michael Pineda makes his second spring training appearance.

1. Asked for the most important factor in determining the fifth starter, Joe Girardi said: “What makes our team the best. How you arrange the 12 guys to make our team the best, would be the deciding factor.”

That would seem to work in Pineda’s favor. David Phelps and Adam Warren have bullpen experience, and the Yankees know they can trust them in a relief role. Pineda’s never been a reliever. But…

2. Asked whether the Yankees will be able to get 200 innings out of Pineda, Girardi said flatly, “No you will not.” He wouldn’t go into detail, but Girardi made it clear that Pineda will be limited this season. He hasn’t pitched a full season since 2011, and even then he pitched just 171 innings.

So, basically, the Yankees want to do what’s best for the team as a whole, and they have to take into consideration the fact that one of their rotation candidates won’t be cleared for a normal 30-start season. Girardi said that limitation won’t rule out Pineda from the competition, it’s just that it might throw a wrinkle into the plan at some point.

“Hypothetically, let’s just say he was a starter at some point, you’d have to adjust because you’re not going to get 200 innings out of him,” Girardi said. “I don’t know (how that would work). I know they’ve talked about it. I’m sure if it becomes a factor and he’s part of our club, we’re going to have to see how it works.”

Could mean an innings limit in early starts. Could mean keeping him limited or moving him to the bullpen late in the season. Girardi didn’t even rule out the idea of sending Pineda to the minors for carefully managed innings early in the season (though that doesn’t seem especially likely if Pineda pitches well enough to make the big league team).

The Yankees are usually hesitant to discuss details in a situation like this, and that’s certainly what it felt like this morning. An innings limit for Pineda seems inevitable, it’s just a matter of figuring how and when the Yankees are going to implement it. As long as Pineda’s just a fifth starter candidate — and not the official fifth starter — it’s unlikely Girardi’s going to discuss a plan that doesn’t have to be implemented just yet.

“We’ll cross that when we have to,” Girardi said. “I’m sure we’ll talk about every possibility, and what makes the most sense for us. And we’ll go from there.”

Francisco Cervelli· One change to the Panama travel roster. Brian McCann is now staying in Florida so that he can catch Masahiro Tanaka on Sunday and Hiroki Kuroda on Monday. Francisco Cervelli will make the trip instead. My friend Dan Barbarisi and I were talking about the decision this morning and both had come to the same bit of speculation: Earlier this spring, it seemed the Yankees were establishing Cervelli as a personal catcher for Tanaka. Wonder if Cervelli’s strong spring has boosted his trade value, and the Yankees want to get McCann familiar with Tanaka just in case they find a good Cervelli deal that nets either a bullpen or infield upgrade. That’s just guesswork, but it would make at least some sense. It’s not like the Yankees were stunned to discover Tanaka and Kuroda were pitching Sunday and Monday. The travel squad was set, and they decided to change it for some reason.

· Speaking of Tanaka, he threw a bullpen this morning and said he feels like he’s adjusting to the Major League rotation schedule pretty well. He wasn’t happy with his fastball during this week’s simulated game, so that’s what he focused on in the bullpen.

· Upcoming spring rotation:
Tomorrow: David Phelps
Saturday: Vidal Nuno (Florida), Adam Warren (Panama)
Sunday: Masahiro Tanaka (Florida), CC Sabathia (Panama)
Monday: Hiroki Kuroda
Tuesday: Michael Pineda
Wednesday: Ivan Nova
Thursday: David Phelps
Friday: CC Sabathia

· Although it’s not officially listed, it seems likely Tanaka’s next start after Sunday will come next Saturday. He’ll be on an extra day of rest for that one. He’s been pitching every five days up to this point. Girardi made it clear this morning that he expects to keep Tanaka on an every-five-days scheduled during the season with no overwhelming effort to give him extra rest, just might ease into that routine this spring.

· The Yankees will have a designated hitter for both games in Panama. Girardi said he plans to have Derek Jeter play shortstop for one of the games and DH for the other. It’s likely Alfonso Soriano will play the outfield for each game.

· A bunch of minor league guys are up for the day. Most are going over to Clearwater to play off the bench there (you’ll see their names below).

· Girardi is staying in Tampa for today’s home game against the Orioles. Tony Pena is going to Clearwater to manage the split-squad game against the Phillies.

CC Sabathia· Bullpen sessions:
Vidal Nuno (to Jose Gil)
Adam Warren (to Gary Sanchez)
Masahiro Tanaka (to Austin Romine)
CC Sabathia (to John Ryan Murphy)

· Batting practice groups in Tampa (hitting groups for Clearwater weren’t posted)
Group 1: Carlos Beltran, Derek Jeter, Brian Roberts, Alfonso Soriano, Brian McCann
Group 2: Zoilo Almonte, Dean Anna, Russ Canzler, Brett Gardner, Eduardo Nunez
Group 3: Adonis Garcia, Jose Pirela, Antoan Richardson, Zelous Wheeler, John Ryan Murphy
Group 4: Jake Cave, Corban Joseph, Casey Stevensen, Tyson Blaser, Jose Gil, Gary Sanchez

· HOME GAME VS. ORIOLES
Second string: C John Ryan Murphy, 1B Jose Gil, 2B Corban Joseph, SS Jose Pirela, 3B Zelous Wheeler, LF Jake Cave, CF Antoan Richardson, RF Adonis Garcia, DH Gary Sanchez
Scheduled relievers: Dave Robertson, Matt Thornton, Bruce Billings, Cesar Cabral, Chris Leroux (with Matt Daley, Jim Miller and Brian Gordon available if necessary)

·  ROAD GAME VS. PHILLIES
Second string: C Pete O’Brien, 1B Francisco Arcia, 2B Rob Refsnyder, SS Carmen Angelini, 3B Rob Segedin, LF Ben Gamel, CF Mason Williams, RF Taylor Dugas
Scheduled relievers: Shane Green, Bryan Mitchell, Mark Montgomery, Preston Claiborne (with Danny Burawa, Fred Lewis, Tyler Webb and Pat Venditte available if necessary)

Associated Press photos

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160 Responses to “Thursday morning notes: One way or another, Pineda limited this season”

  1. Ys Guy March 13th, 2014 at 11:35 am

    “Mike R March 13th, 2014 at 11:32 am
    Anyone think Betances might be a good fit as the 8th inning guy? His stuff impresses me.”
    ==========================
    DB has alot to prove before he can be considered for that job.

    But he will get the chance to prove himself.

  2. bbb51 March 13th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Lohud Yankees Blog @LoHudYankees
    Exactly my thought MT @DanBarbarisi: McCann staying could be sign of looming trade; Cervy was catching Tanaka, need to get McCann familiar

    You guys are making too much of this. McCann caught Tanaka’s first start, Cervelli was never Tanakas personal catcher just because he caught a couple of his early throw days.

  3. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 11:47 am

    “Hypothetically, let’s just say he was a starter at some point, you’d have to adjust because you’re not going to get 200 innings out of him,” Girardi said. “I don’t know (how that would work). I know they’ve talked about it. I’m sure if it becomes a factor and he’s part of our club, we’re going to have to see how it works.”

    ——————–

    The best way to do this is to start him really slow in AAA. Let him stretch out little by little and have him available for the second half. None of that stupid Strausburg crap, where we need to shut him down during the most important part of the season because he’ll be pitching too much. Let him pitch less now, while we have a lot of starting options.

  4. CompassRosy March 13th, 2014 at 11:49 am

    ::::: 4TrainNorth says:
    March 13, 2014 at 10:00 am
    Of course, spring doesn’t mean much. Just took a look through several teams’ stats, and most of the big-name guys are at the bottom in terms of production. For them it’s just getting the reps. And yes, [b]Cano is just getting reps — but he’s also getting results.[/b]:::::

    And Robbie’s not the only one . . .
    M’s top five in MLB for most offensive categories this ST (first in: hits, RBI, runs, SB and doubles)

    *sigh*

    If only Spring in Arizona could last forever ;-)

  5. Ys Guy March 13th, 2014 at 11:54 am

    imo the best thing for this rotation is to stay in a 6 man rotation with phelps and pineda at 5/6 through those first 3 weeks of the season when they only have one off-day.

    Everyone would basically skip one start which will help down the road, it’ll particularly help Tanaka get used to pitching more than once a week.

    This way they can also evaluate for the 5th spot by how they do in regular season games.

  6. jeffc_76 March 13th, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    Doesn’t seem like it has to be all that difficult. Limit him to 6 innings per start max. Skip him 4x – 5x over the course of the season. He pitches ~150 innings plus some innings in the postseason (hopefully). Unless they feel they need to cap him even lower than that, this seems very manageable.

  7. Chad Jennings March 13th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    bbb51 March 13th, 2014 at 11:44 am e

    Lohud Yankees Blog @LoHudYankees
    Exactly my thought MT @DanBarbarisi: McCann staying could be sign of looming trade; Cervy was catching Tanaka, need to get McCann familiar

    You guys are making too much of this. McCann caught Tanaka’s first start, Cervelli was never Tanakas personal catcher just because he caught a couple of his early throw days.

    You could be right, but there were things beyond just catching the early bullpens. Cervelli was also teamed with Tanaka for the team outing — and Girardi had acknowledged that he wanted to pair guys with some purpose in mind — and Cervelli has made some efforts to learn a few Japanese words and phrases. It was never a sure thing that Cervelli was lining up to catch Tanaka, but there were little indications along the way.

    Taking McCann off the trip — when just two days ago McCann and Sabathia were talking about being excited to work together again in Panama — just seems too curious to be a coincidence. The pitching assignments have been set for weeks, so the Yankees were well aware of Tanaka’s and Kuroda’s schedule when they initially assigned McCann to make the trip. Just seems interesting that they changed their mind. Maybe there’s nothing to it, but it’s unusual enough to spark some curiosity. We’ll see. Dan and I were basically just thinking out loud.

  8. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Ys Guy March 13th, 2014 at 11:54 am
    imo the best thing for this rotation is to stay in a 6 man rotation with phelps and pineda at 5/6 through those first 3 weeks of the season when they only have one off-day.

    —————-

    Why not just start Pineda in AAA until you need him? It gives you the chance to 1) earn an extra arb year and 2) limit his innings without impacting the big club.

  9. blake March 13th, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    If Cashman can trade Cervelli for a SS he gets a gold star and he should get a raise

  10. Ys Guy March 13th, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    “Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 12:14 pm
    Ys Guy March 13th, 2014 at 11:54 am
    imo the best thing for this rotation is to stay in a 6 man rotation with phelps and pineda at 5/6 through those first 3 weeks of the season when they only have one off-day.

    —————-

    Why not just start Pineda in AAA until you need him? It gives you the chance to 1) earn an extra arb year and 2) limit his innings without impacting the big club.
    ———————————
    i think the main advantage of going 6 man for 3 weeks is to Tanaka getting used to shorter rest and to CC/Kuroda down the road. Plus the extra that you can see how Pineda/Phelps do in real games.

  11. jeffc_76 March 13th, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    AAA innings are still innings. Lower leverage and they can more easily do things like pull him after only 4, but they still add up. If he gives you the best chance to win in NY, why waste his bullets in AAA?

  12. PRDENTIST March 13th, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    If Pineda is skipped twice and he get 28 starts at 6 innings each, that’s 168 innings. I know we would be hoping for 7 innings but I don’t think that would be wise to push it on him. It also depends on pitch count. If he is at 90 pitches in the 6 then going to the 7th is no biggie but if he is at 100 in the 6th, then you can’t go to far pass that.
    I would skip Pineda over Tanaka because of the injury.

  13. grouchonyy March 13th, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    If Pineda earns the fifth spot, he should come north. You can monitor and adjust innings in NY. Having Phelps and Warren on the roster, as seems likely, gives two spot starter options. In fact,with Kuroda needing a blow once in a while, there seems to be an opportunity for a 5.5 man rotation, the “.5″ being a floater.
    Pineada being sent down after a good spring may be a bad move psychologically. Having there floater covers all necessary rest.

  14. Mottsx March 13th, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Phelps/Warren can piggypack eachother during spot starts if they needed to give Pineda and extended rest period said a 10 day layoff for extra rest.

  15. Hankflorida March 13th, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    That’s the type of hitter Ellsbury is. He isn’t a power hitter.

    Shame, you may be right and that is what does not make sense when you lose power numbers at 2nd and 3rd with Cano and A-Rod. Before last year, I was lamenting playing Ichiro and Brett with Cervelli together when we had Grandy, Text, Hafner and Cano as our power guys. Little has changed this year with the RBI’s guys are McCaan, Beltran, Text and Soriano, and only one played most of his career in the American League. What threw me for a loop was that Ellsbury had hit 32 homers in 2011, but his Wade Boggs swing in ST may show that he prefers this style of play. “You dance with who you brung,” and Ellsbury brought his table setter game to the Big Apple.

  16. PRDENTIST March 13th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Darvish first season he pitched 191 innings and 6 2/3 innings per game ave. He had 4 days rest in 13 starts, 5 days rest 10 starts, 6 days rest 1 start, 7 days rest 1 start and 3 other starts from 9 to 10 days. Total of 28 starts.

    Last year he had 32 starts and 209 innings for a 6 1/3 inning ave. per start. he had 4 days rest on 18 starts and 5 days rest on 10 starts.

  17. PRDENTIST March 13th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Kuroda first year he had 4 days rest in 20 starts and 5 days rest in 7 starts. he had 31 starts with 183 innings

  18. Howler March 13th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Chad…have to be careful about thinking out loud…can give up vital information…I let it slip about the secret of 42…doing that.

  19. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Shame, you may be right and that is what does not make sense when you lose power numbers at 2nd and 3rd with Cano and A-Rod. Before last year, I was lamenting playing Ichiro and Brett with Cervelli together when we had Grandy, Text, Hafner and Cano as our power guys. Little has changed this year with the RBI’s guys are McCaan, Beltran, Text and Soriano, and only one played most of his career in the American League. What threw me for a loop was that Ellsbury had hit 32 homers in 2011, but his Wade Boggs swing in ST may show that he prefers this style of play. “You dance with who you brung,” and Ellsbury brought his table setter game to the Big Apple.

    ————–

    I understand what you’re saying I’m just pointing out that I don’t think Ellsbury is holding anything back.. he’s a more of a spray hitter, not a power guy.

  20. bbb51 March 13th, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    jeffc_76 March 13th, 2014 at 12:08 pm
    Doesn’t seem like it has to be all that difficult. Limit him to 6 innings per start max. Skip him 4x – 5x over the course of the season. He pitches ~150 innings plus some innings in the postseason (hopefully). Unless they feel they need to cap him even lower than that, this seems very manageable.

    This is what I have posted before. 5th starters only need to make about 25 starts, you can skip them when you have off days, and you can also just sub in a starter for one start. That’s about 150 innings, probably less since he will probably have a few games where he is knocked out early like almost every pitcher.

  21. blake March 13th, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    “Why not just start Pineda in AAA until you need him? It gives you the chance to 1) earn an extra arb year and 2) limit his innings without impacting the big club.”

    According to JF they’d have to keep him down like 75% of the season to gain the extra year.

    They are invested into 2014…..I think the best 25 are going north and I hope that’s the way it goes……Jeters final season….push all the chips to the middle and lets win that sucker

  22. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 13th, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    GO MICHAEL PINEDA!!!!

  23. RadioKev March 13th, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    You could try to do the Joba transition at some point, and have Phelps/Pineda split starts for the season. Starting him in the rotation and finishing him in the pen doesn’t seem like a terrible idea either.

    I don’t like the idea of wasting Pineda in AAA if he’s good to go, unless they definitely get that extra arb year.

  24. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    i think the main advantage of going 6 man for 3 weeks is to Tanaka getting used to shorter rest and to CC/Kuroda down the road. Plus the extra that you can see how Pineda/Phelps do in real games.

    ————–

    I don’t think changing the rotation for three weeks would be all that beneficial to Tanaka.. he’s gotta work on the MLB pitching schedule so the sooner he’s in that rhythm the better, IMO.

  25. blake March 13th, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    @mikeaxisa: Pineda’s pitching and Cone and Singleton are calling the game? Hell yes.

  26. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    According to JF they’d have to keep him down like 75% of the season to gain the extra year.

    They are invested into 2014…..I think the best 25 are going north and I hope that’s the way it goes……Jeters final season….push all the chips to the middle and lets win that sucker

    —————-

    I agree.. but I don’t see evidence just yet that Pineda fits into that group. If he’s got an innings limit I don’t want them throwing him in the pen in August or deciding to shut him down when the importance of the games starts to rise.

    However they handle it, they can’t handle it like the Nats did and cost themselves a chance at going all the way.

  27. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Hank,

    My boy Almonte has the power, what he lacks is the opportunity.

    Know what else he has? He’s a good 2-strike hitter and a good situational guy.

    But you heard Chad – they view him as a “fourth OF.” Melky syndrome.

    Cashman, and whoever else looks at these things, just lack the talent to assess hitters. Almonte could hit .280 and bop 25 homers if he were relied upon and got regular ABs. From there, he could be even better in terms of hitting for average.

    But the Yankees always spit on their own; prefer to pay out for guys pushing 40.

  28. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    I also don’t want them falling into that stupid trap of having him get to either 5 innings or 100 pitches and pulling him.

  29. Shame Spencer March 13th, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    :arrow:

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Pineda and Vato on the same day, and both can be watched.

  31. RadioKev March 13th, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    “If he’s got an innings limit I don’t want them throwing him in the pen in August or deciding to shut him down when the importance of the games starts to rise.”

    I think it might make more sense to have him end in the pen, after a season when maybe his arm is just starting to tire out. Rather than ramping him up to finish off the season, if you know what I mean.

    But yeah, definitely have to make sure he’s on the team in some capacity at the end of the season. Ridiculous how the Nats butchered their playoff shot.

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