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Veteran relievers making an impression (but is it lasting?)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 25, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

David Robertson

Walk in the main entrance to the Yankees clubhouse and turn away from the lockers labeled Sabathia, Nova and Kuroda. On the left side of the door, along the front wall of the clubhouse, there are four lockers that seem fairly interchangeable. Each one is occupied by an experienced, right-handed middle reliever who has big league time and outstanding spring training numbers. They came here looking for an opportunity in New York, and each one has done enough to win a spot.

They’re well aware that there won’t be room for all of them, and there might not be room for any of them.

“All four of us right here, you could come up with reasons to take one of us,” Matt Daley said. “And you can also come up with ways that none of us (make it) because of the whole roster situation. … I try to put the thought out of my head as much as possible, but it definitely goes through your mind and you think about it. You think about all the different possibilities. You just realize that they have a lot of good options.”

Daley, David Herndon, Jim Miller and Chris Leroux all sit side by side in the Yankees clubhouse. Just in front of them, maybe 10 feet away, is the fifth guy who would fit in if there were room along that front wall: Japanese right hander Yoshinori Tateyama. All five have sub-1.00 WHIPs. Most have close to or more than a strikeout per inning.

“As a non-roster guy, the odds of breaking are slim coming in, and you know that,” Miller said. “Let’s just make an impression.”

They’ve done that, and even if you don’t see any of them on Opening Day, there’s a chance you could see at least one of these guys at some point during the season.

Matt DaleyMATT DALEY
31 years old
Major Leagues: 86.1 IP, 1.27 WHIP, 88 K
This spring: 7.1 IP, 0.55 WHIP, 7 K

Past: Went undrafted out of Bucknell, but made the Rockies Opening Day roster in 2010. The next year he had shoulder surgery and ultimately rehabbed his way back in the Yankees minor league system.
Present: Fully healthy this spring, Daley said he’s finally felt like himself again. He pitched extremely well in limited action after a September call-up last season. “To get to September and have the success that I did, it made it a much better offseason,” Daley said. “And also made it a little more motivating to know that I could get back to where I was previously and possibly be even better.”
Future: “The goal is to put as much pressure on them as possible to make a tough decision,” Daley said. “The mindset to do that is, control what you can control. That’s what I’ve tried to do every time. Go out there, pitch the way I know I can, and good things will happen. Even if I don’t make the team, the go down to Scranton, do the same thing and be up at some point during the season.”

David HerndonDAVID HERNDON
28 years old
Major Leagues: 117 IP, 1.48 WHIP, 76 K
This spring: 5 IP, 0.80 WHIP, 4 K

Past: Made three Opening Day rosters with the Phillies, but had Tommy John surgery in the middle of 2012 and hasn’t been in the big leagues since. Got to Triple-A with the Yankees last season and pitched well before re-signing this winter.
Prest: Rehab mode is finished, and although Herndon was eased into game action this spring, he’s basically back to pitching at 100 percent. “I feel like I’m starting to put stuff together at the right time,” he said. “I’m pretty pleased going into April.”
Future: “If you look around the room, everybody that’s still here has done the right thing,” Herndon said. “So, at this point, it just depends on which direction they want to go. … The bottom line is you’re going to be doing the same thing whether it’s in New York, whether it’s in Scranton, you’re going to be going, toeing the rubber, trying to get guys out. What you’ve got to do right now is prepare yourself. If I’m in New York, great. But if I’m in Scranton, just work my butt off.”

Chris LerouxCHRIS LEROUX
29 years old
Major Leagues: 69.2 IP, 1.62 WHIP, 63 K
This spring: 10.2 IP, 0.37 WHIP, 9 K

Past: With quite a bit of experience in Florida and Pittsburgh, he finally made his first Opening Day roster last season only to end up designated for assignment and pitching in Japan. Did not pitch well overseas, just five starts with a 9.00 ERA.
Present: This winter, Leroux was pitching in the Dominican Republic when his close friend – and former Yankee – Jeff Karstens suggested he try a two-seam fastball. He’s now all but abandoned his mid-90s four-seamer in favor of a big sinker that generates both ground balls and swinging strikes. “I’m almost a different pitcher than I was last season,” he said (and that’s to say nothing of how much different he looks without the beard he had in Pittsburgh).
Future: “I’m not thinking anything,” Leroux said. “I’m just glad I’ve had a good camp and hopefully open some eyes. If everything works out out of camp, great. If it doesn’t and they end up sending me to Scranton, then I’m geared up to pitch well there and hopefully get the call at some point – sooner rather than later. … Last year was such a write-off for me that I’m just glad to have an opportunity with a good team where there is opportunity.”

Jim MillerJIM MILLER
31 years old
Major Leagues: 64.2 IP, 1.41 WHIP, 57 K
This spring: 7.2 IP, 0.78 WHIP, 4 K

Past: After a pretty good year with the A’s in 2012, Miller was DFA and claimed by the Yankees, who stashed him in Triple-A until a late September call-up when the pitching staff was depleted. One of several veterans who pitched well in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre last season.
Present: After choosing to re-sign, Miller reported to spring training early so that he could work on a slider with pitching coach Larry Rothschild. “It’s gotten better over the course of camp,” Miller said. “That was the idea. Let’s leave a lasting impression.”
Future: “I came in with the mindset that I was going to start at Scranton, and if they took me north with them I was going to be pleasantly surprised,” Miller said. “But I didn’t want to get my hopes up and then have them shot down or anything like that. I’m pleased with the way I’ve thrown the ball. I’m pleased with how camp’s gone so far. Just trying to whatever I can to at least make my name stick and make it a hard decision for them.”

Yoshinori TateyamaYOSHINORI TATEYAMA
38 years old
Major Leagues: 61 IP, 1.18 WHIP, 61 K
This spring: 7 IP, 0.86 WHIP, 10 K

Past: Twelve-year professional in Japan, he signed with the Rangers in 2010 and spent parts of three seasons in the Majors with Texas. Traded to the Yankees in the middle of last season and pitched well with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
Present: As he’s gotten older, Tateyama said he’s lowered his arm angle so that he’s a fairly extreme side-arm pitcher at this point. Tateyama said he’s been happy with the action on both his sinker and his slider from that angle.
Future: “We know we’re competing with each other,” Tateyama said. “I focus on my pitching. … I spent spring training the last couple of years in Arizona. There it is so dry, (fingers) slip on the ball. This is my first time in Florida, so the humidity, I like that. I can grip the ball. And I changed my arm location, a little bit down. That’s good for me. Breaking ball is doing well. Sinking fastball is doing well.”

Associated Press photos

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110 Responses to “Veteran relievers making an impression (but is it lasting?)”

  1. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:01 am

    Yanks really need to give some of their younger big arms a chance to win the important bullpen jobs…..Betances and then later on J Ram if he stays healthy. Teams like the cards are never shy abou throwing the big young arms out there. You can’t replace Mo but the he’s way to mitigate his loss is to get multiple guys out there with dominant stuff.

    How cool would it be if by August they have a 3 headed monster or JRam, Betances, and DRob out there

  2. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:02 am

    Maybe even bring Banuelos up in September for the stretch……bunch of guys pumpin 95 plus. That’s how St Louis builds their bullpen……they get a bunch of kids that throw fuel

  3. 4TrainNorth March 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    It’s nice that one of the guys in that photo let his kid brother Davey join in. Man, D-Rob ain’t a big dude.

  4. pkyankfan69 March 25th, 2014 at 9:09 am

    How cool would it be if by August they have a 3 headed monster or JRam, Betances, and DRob out there
    ———-
    That would be sweet… You can add Burawa to that potential group also

  5. 4TrainNorth March 25th, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Seen time and time again where teams catch lightning with young power arms as the season wears on. We actually have a chance to do that this year, for sure.

  6. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:20 am

    Lol, has trisha been around this morning? She seems to misunderstand that things like averages and percentages are calculated using sum totals. I understand Lohud being mad at science, but being mad at math has to be a new one lmao!

  7. Tackelberry March 25th, 2014 at 9:22 am

    I Kinda like Tateyama becuase he would give a different look out of the pen. Not a power arm. Soft tossing sidearmer who would be death on righties, to offset the other power arms in the pen, and give hitters a different look and different speed

  8. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:23 am

    I’d love to see Manny called up at the end of the season… the pitching has looked very, very good.

  9. Tackelberry March 25th, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Its oretty exciting to see alot of the young pitchers shine this ST. GUys like Shane Greene and Bryan Mitchell as future starters and some power relievers on the horizon like Burawa and J-Ram once he gets healthy. Gonna be more important now that so many teams are locking up their young pitchers before free agency

  10. 86w183 March 25th, 2014 at 9:27 am

    Will be very disappointed if one of the veteran re-treads takes a roster spot away from Betances or even Claiborne.

    Of the veterans Daley probably has the most upside and he’s still reasonably young.

  11. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Where did Greene even come from??

  12. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Yanks got a lot of criticism for no doing more to address their bullpen…..Betances and others could end up showing them why they didn’t.

    Now the infield……

  13. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:34 am

    Yanks got a lot of criticism for no doing more to address their Inf…..Prime Time and others could end up showing them why they didn’t.

    Now the bullpen…

  14. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Cashmoney says:
    March 25, 2014 at 9:34 am
    Yanks got a lot of criticism for no doing more to address their Inf…..Prime Time and others could end up showing them why they didn’t.

    Now the bullpen…”

    Only problem with that is prime time et al aren’t very good and have no upside unlike the potential bullpen options

  15. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Let me get this logic, Guys like Solarte, KJ, Nunez could have demonstrate an adequate inf defense along with some offensive potentials but they hardly matters, an aggregate of less than 10 innings pitched in ST does warrant confidences that BP in fine.

    Do we have a double standard here?

  16. pkyankfan69 March 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Before spring training I was worried that we didn’t sign a Balfour type… After watching most of spring training I think the BP will be just fine… There might be some growing pains as a bunch of guys settle into new roles but I think they’ll be able to work out a pretty good BP from within. I think Betances becomes the regular 8th inning guy no later than midseason.

  17. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:43 am

    Do we have a double standard here?”

    Not at all….Betances has dominant stuff and a great breaking ball……none of those players you mentioned do anything special

  18. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:44 am

    Betances has a lot more potential at his role than any of the Nunies and Solartes do at theirs and that’s the point…..

  19. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:46 am

    Chad, great stuff on the minor leaguers and relief pitchers. Thanks a lot.

  20. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    Not at all….Betances has dominant stuff and a great breaking ball
    —–
    yup, that doesn’t gimme assurances that he will, or that of Burawa and oft injury Jram, I like how everyone is projecting the best case scenario for this pen, when reality Yankees are one Drob sore arm away from mad scrambling.

  21. sigiqaped March 25th, 2014 at 9:49 am

    Nothing worse than veteran retreads.

  22. blake March 25th, 2014 at 9:49 am

    yup, that doesn’t gimme assurances that he will, or that of Burawa and oft injury Jram, I like how everyone is projecting the best case scenario for this pen, when reality Yankees are one Drob sore arm away from mad scrambling.”

    Not projecting it….saying they have the upside…..there is a difference. The infield has no upside so ….not exciting

  23. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Blake -

    I agree with you – it would be a pretty significant step forward if the Yankees can have a three-headed monster of Betances, Ramirez and Robertson. My guess is that the potential of Betances and Ramirez (now that they’ve shifted him to full time relief) is part of the reason there has been no talk of a Robertson extension.

    Of the veterans above, I think David Herndon and Chris Leroux will really emerge this season for the Yankees. Let’s face it, for all the talk about how much the Yankees needed to add more veteran arms to their pen, they really are quite deep in relievers both experienced and big arm young guys.

  24. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Not projecting it….saying they have the upside…..there is a difference. The infield has no upside so ….not exciting
    —–
    not everyone can be as exciting as Drew with his tremendous upsides, blake, the difference here is you see the inf as abysmal and I don’t, we will see where the weakest link lies when the season starts.

  25. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    sigiqaped March 25th, 2014 at 9:49 am

    Nothing worse than veteran retreads.
    ——————

    Keep in mind that the best closer in the league last year was a veteran re-tread that the Red Sox brought in for middle relief duty.

  26. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    Not at all….Betances has dominant stuff and a great breaking ball
    —–
    yup, that doesn’t gimme assurances that he will, or that of Burawa and oft injury Jram, I like how everyone is projecting the best case scenario for this pen, when reality Yankees are one Drob sore arm away from mad scrambling.
    ———————-

    Sometimes good things happen from scrambling. I will beat this dead horse again, Boston lost their top three closer options last year. Worked out really friggin well for them.

  27. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:40 am
    Let me get this logic, Guys like Solarte, KJ, Nunez could have demonstrate an adequate inf defense along with some offensive potentials but they hardly matters, an aggregate of less than 10 innings pitched in ST does warrant confidences that BP in fine.

    Do we have a double standard here?

    —————-

    Nah, not at all. KJ, Nunez, Roberts and Solarte are what they are. They’re already in or are approaching their thirties and most haven’t stuck as starters on a big league team in a while – if ever.

  28. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:46 am
    Chad, great stuff on the minor leaguers and relief pitchers. Thanks a lot.

    ————

    Yep, Chad has done a great job this spring.

  29. J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2014 at 9:54 am

    Why would anyone want guys who throw 95-98 mph with sink plus dirty curves and sliders to go away.

  30. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    My guess is that the potential of Betances and Ramirez (now that they’ve shifted him to full time relief) is part of the reason there has been no talk of a Robertson extension.

    ————–

    Could be… it does suck that the first year they get to evaluate Robertson as a closer is the same year he is an FA. But honestly, I would be feeling him out to see what numbers he’s looking at. I think almost all relievers can be replaced, so I’m not going bash the Yankees for not keeping him if he walks but I have a personal soft spot for the guy… I’d love to have him stay in pinstripes for a good long while.

  31. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Sometimes good things happen from scrambling.
    ——–
    you right Chip, sometimes, A Jason Grilli and Melancon emergency from Pits would have been a better example than Boston, as Uehara is not chopped liver and boston had build tremendous depth with their BP LY.

  32. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    Cash -

    Leaving Kelly Johnson aside, the spring numbers of Solarte, Nunez and even Wheeler are less important to me than reliever numbers because the position players aren’t being used in spring training the way they would be during the season.

    What I mean is that right now those guys are playing every day, getting 2 or more at bats. Let’s say Solarte makes the Yankees as a reserve player, he’s going to get 1 game out of every 6 or 7. It is a lot harder to be productive in that scenario because you’re not in rhythm. I honestly believe that being a reserve player on an American League team is one of the hardest jobs in all of baseball for that reason. Guys like Luis Sojo, Enrique Wilson, Darryl when he was with the Yankees, had a special skill set that other guys (Andy Phillips, Shelley Duncan, Josh Phelps) never mastered.

    On the other hand, the relievers are being used in situations more similar to the ones they would face during the season. That’s what, I believe, makes their numbers more relevant.

  33. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    *emergence.

  34. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Chip, overall BP if far easier issue to fix than an entire Inf, I get your drift. I saw the way the young arms have pitched and I am encouraged. But what we talking about here in Balfour and Drew here is simple matter of having a degree assurance. Yanks ran out of money… but that doesn’t mean the point doesn’t stand as a valid one.

  35. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    My guess is that the potential of Betances and Ramirez (now that they’ve shifted him to full time relief) is part of the reason there has been no talk of a Robertson extension.

    ————–

    Could be… it does suck that the first year they get to evaluate Robertson as a closer is the same year he is an FA. But honestly, I would be feeling him out to see what numbers he’s looking at. I think almost all relievers can be replaced, so I’m not going bash the Yankees for not keeping him if he walks but I have a personal soft spot for the guy… I’d love to have him stay in pinstripes for a good long while.
    ——————–

    From a sentimental standpoint I agree with you – but depending on how much Robertson wants to be paid and how guys like Betances, Burawa, Ramirez, Montgomery (and if they get him back, Kahnle) perform, it might not make business or baseball sense to spend $7 mil a year on Robertson.

  36. Mottsx March 25th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    Yanks take a shot on 36yr old Ty Wiggington to play 3b? Can’t be worse than Nunie… can he?

  37. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    “not everyone can be as exciting as Drew with his tremendous upsides, blake, the difference here is you see the inf as abysmal and I don’t, we will see where the weakest link lies when the season starts.”

    Well Drew doesn’t fix everything of course but it helps…..signing Cano instead of Ellsbury woukd have been good but it is what it is. Basically I’m cautiously optimistic about the bullpen…..now it may not work out and they may have to get help during the season…..but at least the potential is there for it to be good and if it isn’t you can find bullpen help in season.

    I hope I’m wrong about the infield…..I hope Derek and tex stay healthy and bounce back…..I hope Roberts stays healthy and gives them decent production and I hope KJ can be decent at 3B……I also hoped Id win the billion dollar bracket

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    This is what I mean about HalSpeak and agenda being thoroughly o-opted: “ran out of money.” Lol”

  39. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Some guy on twitter tried to tell me yesterday that Brenden Ryan is just as good as drew because their career WAR is roughly the same……WAR is a dangerous thing because any people don’t understand it or it’s limitations…..

  40. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Nunez is one of the few player on this team who can catch up to a premium FB and adroitly taking it opposite field and line it down the line. If you just read stat sheet, he is more or less a replacement player with value on base path… but he is more than that. I see a player who has so far display adequate footwork in the inf this ST, I think he has a chance to above league average player at 2b or 3b.

  41. bigdan22 March 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    There’s nothing wrong with the Yankee’s infield depth. It’s better now than it has been in recent memory. Nunez, Ryan, Anna, Solarte, Sizemore, Wheeler, Pirela . . . . That’s a pretty strong list of back ups that that have been collected.

    The infield’s problem is the starters. And biggest is probably the icon at SS for several reasons that I’ve discussed before. But I told you back in Dec, the Yanks’ infield is set. The Yanks told you in Dec, and Jan, and Feb and last week. All solutions are internal.

    Absent an injury, I see only two possible types of trades right now. A trade for a veteran bullpen arm or a housekeeping trade for the 40 man roster.

    I do believe, however, that there’s a big trade/acquisition pending. Probably for a SS. A really big one. Much bigger than those AZ guys. But it won’t happen until July at the earliest and most likely next offseason.

    So for the present, these are your 2014 New York Yankees. Deal with it.

  42. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Cash -

    I hear what you’re saying and you’re not wrong. We’re used to having veteran laden teams that had former closers (Farnsworth, Karsay, Wholers, Soriano) serving in non-closer roles and guys with good track records (Chavez, Strawberry, Sierra) on the bench and the Yankees have chosen instead to go with mostly unproven talent behind Robertson in the pen (though Thornton did close for a while) and they’re going with clear stop gap options at 3b and 2b.

    Frankly I’m nervous about the infield too and I would sign Stephen Drew if I was running the club, but I look around the league and see that as being potentially fixable if the need arises towards May and June.

  43. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Speaking of infielders, I would like for the Yankees to look at Juan Francisco of the Brewers assuming he clears release waivers. He’s 26, LH and can hit with a lot of power. He can’t field worth a lick which is why the Brewers went with the combination of Overbay/Reynolds over him at 1b, but as a guy they could stash in the minors and bring up if needed for some DH duty…why not?

  44. pkyankfan69 March 25th, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Kelly Johnson is just keeping 3B warm for Aram midseason… Whoever is better between Johnson/Roberts (or still standing in Roberts case) gets 2B.

    CF- Ellsbury
    SS – Jeter
    RF – Beltran
    1B – Tex
    3B – Aram
    C – McCann
    DH – Soriano
    2B – Johnson/Roberts
    LF – GGBG

    That one power righty bat at 3B makes the line up look way better… Amazing how much deeper the line up can get with the addition of 1 guy.

  45. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Chip, I would not have signed either Cano or Ellsbury, I would have opt to spread that money out and committing to a shorter term contracts with the lights Peralta, Infante and others…

    but back to reality, my guess is they will address the issue during TD, be it a ARAM or someone else.

  46. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    The only logic I can see for the Yankees behind not signing Drew is that the Yankees may think they have better options available to them at SS and 3b next winter.

  47. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    “There’s nothing wrong with the Yankee’s infield depth. It’s better now than it has been in recent memory. Nunez, Ryan, Anna, Solarte, Sizemore, Wheeler, Pirela . . . . That’s a pretty strong list of back ups that that have been collected.”

    No it’s not because the starters at 2 spots aren’t very good…..you can’t have depth if the starters should be bench players……all those guys aren’t good depth….they are just guys

  48. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    From a sentimental standpoint I agree with you – but depending on how much Robertson wants to be paid and how guys like Betances, Burawa, Ramirez, Montgomery (and if they get him back, Kahnle) perform, it might not make business or baseball sense to spend $7 mil a year on Robertson.

    ——————

    If he ends up having a really good year, he could probably even command more!

  49. Chip March 25th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Chip, I would not have signed either Cano or Ellsbury, I would have opt to spread that money out and committing to a shorter term contracts with the lights Peralta, Infante and others…

    but back to reality, my guess is they will address the issue during TD, be it a ARAM or someone else.
    ———————-

    Peralta didn’t work because of the timing. He signed very early in the winter, before the Yankees knew whether or not Alex would be suspended. They were able to sign Kelly Johnson because, while he would prefer to be a starter, he was ok with the notion of being a utility guy. That wouldn’t have worked for Jhonny.

    They did try to sign Infante, the Royals gave him a 4 year deal that no one outside of Dayton Moore’s office thinks is a good idea.

  50. bigdan22 March 25th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    And the silly reference to “running out of money” is once again more evidence that mabt members on this blog still can’t come to terms with the concept that the Yanks’ are operating under a budget. I raised this issue a couple of weeks ago. Anyone who believes Hal has just a petty man who’s suddenly and unreasonably tied the purse strings really doesn’t understand or is willing to understand that the Yanks operate under budgetary controls. It’s the same thinking that believed the Yanks would “blow out” the budget once 189 was crossed. Or that Arod should be paid $60MM to stay home because he’s too much trouble. Or that the last three years of Cano’s contract really wouldn’t be a financial burden for the team because hey, the Yanks have tons of money and some of us will be dead or senile in 7 years so who cares anyway.

    Let me tell you something else about Hal and how senior financial managers work. The money pipeline hasn’t completely dried up. Guys like Hal always have reserves. A reserve for obsolescence. A reserve for loan loss. In the case of the Yanks, it’s a reserve for injury. And a July reserve for a mid-season reset.

    Hal is a bit more complicated than what some folks make him out to be. But I’ll help out here where I can.

  51. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:22 am

    Chip, the fundamental problems with the Yankees is thatthey don’t utilize their resources to it’s full potentials. Whether this has to do with Hal’s shortsightedness and lack baseball acumen or Cashman’s lack of vision to see the big picture and his deficiency in evaluating and developing talents is up for debate.

    For Now, this year to year plan is prop up only by money, but it won’t enough if Yanks continue to operate in this draconian fashion.

    I have said this a gazillion times, unfortunately i don’t own them, so it is what it is.

  52. SweetSpot March 25th, 2014 at 10:23 am

    it’s all about the pitching IMO – Yankees can handle average infield production if the starters do what they’re capable of and the pen is decent. We’re going to score runs. But I am sure Cash will make a move if necessary.

  53. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    There is a Grand Canyon sized hole between what people understand and what people care about.

  54. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Hal is a bit more complicated
    ——-
    Hal sees other teams winning to 70 percent of payroll, he deduce that is possible. sure Yanks could very well achieve that goal with a combination of taking gambles on IFA players with a track record, FA, bountiful domestic and international drafts and a choice trades of veterans whom are a year or 2 before reaching FA.

    But that’s not how the Yankees are actually operating with their internal resources. And prospects (legit ones) are not allow some opportunities of growing pain in this win now mentality.

  55. Against All Odds March 25th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 9:20 am
    Lol, has trisha been around this morning? She seems to misunderstand that things like averages and percentages are calculated using sum totals.

    ———————-

    Is this a discussion that happened yesterday?

  56. Cashmoney March 25th, 2014 at 10:31 am

    *winning with 70% of Yankees payroll

  57. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 10:32 am

    Yeah, I haven’t counted up all of the Kansas City Royals fans or something lol.

  58. Mottsx March 25th, 2014 at 10:33 am

    I despise Nunie. I appreciate that he can hit a home run off of verlander but guess what so can Jayson Nix… I’m not ready to sign him up to play 3B again.

  59. J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Cano will be better in years 8-10 than Brian ROberts or KJ are
    Right now.

  60. sigiqaped March 25th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    I think you can count up real KC Royals fans with one hand.

  61. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    “And the silly reference to “running out of money” is once again more evidence that mabt members on this blog still can’t come to terms with the concept that the Yanks’ are operating under a budget”

    Everyone knows that…..some just think it’s silly when they have spent half a billion dollars and lost all their draft picks to hold a firm line that’s 25 million less than a year ago

  62. austinmac March 25th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Most of these good reliever nu8mbers come late in games with the minor leaguers in. Veterans can get them out, but that doesn’t say the off speed and 88 mph fastball with get out big league hitters.

    I think the team must go with guys who have stuff and ability to improve.

    Roberts and Johnson combined make about 25% of what Cano makes.

  63. bigdan22 March 25th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    If you want to get on Hal and the Yanks, a much fairer criticism would be, “hey I understand that you have a budget and all but why did you spend so much of it on the OF and so little on the infield?” Now maybe that had something to do with the timing of FA offers and signings but I think it’s a fair criticism.

    I tell you what irks me. It’s all those wasted first round picks. Not just Bichette and Culver. Now it’s Heathcott and probably Hensley as well. This Hensley thing is really bothering me. If my memory is correct, his first physical problems had to do with groin and abdominal strains. Then they came up with this hip problem and said that was causing the strains. So he misses a whole year for that surgery. Now we hear he’s had hernia surgery. I bet you dollars to donuts that’s a sports hernia. I’ve had that. It’s pretty much a groan and abdominal problem. That’s where all this started. Maybe he should have had that surgery first ya think? All from a guy the Yanks’ drafted in the first round with some congenital shoulder problem.

    And don’t get me started with Heathcott. And I’m still angry about Cole.

  64. DONNYBROOK March 25th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Hal is NOT “Complicated”. He’s 100% “Bottom Liner.” Hal went nickel-and-dime with the construction of the 2013 Yankee Team. As a result, he then witnessed a decline in 2013 Yankee Stadium attendance, and he further suffered through YES Viewership falling off a cliff the same year. This prompted Hal to do a 180, and pump all kinds of $$$ into the construction of the 2014 Yankee Team. Hal is Very easy to read if you simply follow his trail of bread crumbs.

  65. Shame Spencer March 25th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    sigiqaped March 25th, 2014 at 10:37 am
    I think you can count up real KC Royals fans with one hand.

    ——————

    Do you think 50% of 20 is less than 50% of 100?

  66. 86w183 March 25th, 2014 at 10:47 am

    Cano will be better in years 8-10 than Brian ROberts or KJ are
    Right now.

    *************************************************************************

    And he’ll cost $ 20 M a year more than the two of them.

  67. sigiqaped March 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Isn’t it about time we move on from that postseason choker Cano?

  68. austinmac March 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    It is the operating under a budget comments that irritate me. We get that, but does the team get we fans really do expect the team to be competitive for a championship, and if they are not, empty seats will prevail?

    They were talking this morning on mlb radio about what players are critical for the year. I couldn’t decide on the Yankees–Jeter, Teixiera or the rest of the infield. Count me in as one who thinks they are risking the entire season for a comparatively small outlay.

    The worst range in baseball? I think the scout was correct.

    What does does range mean in a season? If a player allows one more hit per week than his contemporaries in the position, then that player must get one more hit per week to even things up. That translates into probably 30-40 points in batting average difference. So, for Jeter to be league average at short, and if he gives up only one more hit per week, then he must hit far above the other SSs to be their equal in value.

    Spread that around the infield, and the problem seems pretty big. Is my analysis correct or missing the boat?
    \

  69. J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Well sure, he’s at least 75 percent better than the two put together.

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock March 25th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    C R 9 Alert

  71. UpState March 25th, 2014 at 10:57 am

    86w183 March 25th, 2014 at 9:27 am
    Will be very disappointed if one of the veteran re-treads takes a roster spot away from Betances or even Claiborne.

    Of the veterans Daley probably has the most upside and he’s still reasonably young.
    ======================================================

    So do we take young kids – just to take young kids ?

    Do we take veterans – just to take veterans ?

    …..or maybe we should take the one’s that are more likely to help the team in 2014 ?

    Whether he’s 12 or 52….the ML team should take players that will help the team win now.

    (others to be released, traded, or stashed in the minors to either develop or maintain their value)

  72. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:57 am

    I laid out a plan last night where they could have probably had just as good a team and kep their first rounder and the pay out would have been similar in money

  73. blake March 25th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    5th starter announcement expected today…..expected to be Pineda

  74. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    What does does range mean in a season?

    Jeter gets around 100 less outs per year than guys with similar numbers of defensive innings as he has. In 2012 he had 277 less outs made than JJ hardy. Thats a lot of extra base runners. You reckon between 3B-SS and 2B you could be looking at 250+ outs the staff is going to have to cover by picking up the fielders.

    Now how often is KJ, Jeter, or BR going to pick them up with the bat above and beyond what a better defender would do?

  75. UpState March 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Nunnie is not an adequate ML fielder.

    (you’d really be stretched to find ANY ML player at the position that is worse!)

    Hitter ?

    What is is RISP numbers ?….look at that math…you’ll be very shocked how abysmal he is…

    (that is kinda when you need a hit – when you’ve got RISP….no ?)

    Other probably than being a nice guy – he has very little baseball value….but JG loves him; hence we’re stuck with him forever…..

  76. Russell Munson March 25th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    “Jeter gets around 100 less outs per year than guys with similar numbers of defensive innings as he has. ”

    This doesn’t adjust for opportunity. If he was really making 100 fewer plays per season in the same opportunities he would rate as a -80 defender every year.

  77. Hankflorida March 25th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    pete2 March 25th, 2014 at 12:19 am
    Hank. I suspect early in the offseason Drew and Morales were looking for too much money. Ellsbury was available and I suspect Boras put up a convincing argument that his shoulder getting stronger will put more pop in his bat.

    How it turns out will be interesting.

    To paraphrase Bette Davis,”Fasten your seat belts, it will be a bumpy season ahead.” So goes Ellsbury, so goes the Yankees. Rickey Henderson hit 28 bombs with the Yankees and Damon hit 24. If the healing shoulder can produce some power then Ellsbury is a steal in more ways then one.

  78. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:12 am

    This doesn’t adjust for opportunity. If he was really making 100 fewer plays per season in the same opportunities he would rate as a -80 defender every year.

    Eric Aybar and Jeter both had ~320 ‘balls in zone’ in 2012. Aybar ended up with 95 more put outs + assists. JJ Hardy had 100 more balls in zone than Jeter (he played 200 more innings) but converted all 100 extra BIZ to outs given that he had 277 more outs than Jeter did.

  79. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:15 am

    There will always be some opportunity bias in fielding stats, but the middle infield is always going to handle a disproportionate amount of balls.

  80. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Brendan Ryan played like 20 less defensive innings than Jeter in 2012, had 11 less ‘balls in zone’ but made 100 more outs than Jeter.

  81. Russell Munson March 25th, 2014 at 11:21 am

    “Eric Aybar and Jeter both had ~320 ‘balls in zone’ in 2012. Aybar ended up with 95 more put outs + assists. JJ Hardy had 100 more balls in zone than Jeter (he played 200 more innings) but converted all 100 extra BIZ to outs given that he had 277 more outs than Jeter did.”

    Put outs are not part of balls in zone and should not be added to assists.

  82. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:23 am

    How are put outs not a part of balls in zone? Why should they not be added to assists? An assist is any throw or toss Jeter makes to 3B/C/2B/1B where the runner is out. A put out is any time he gets a player out unassisted.

  83. austinmac March 25th, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Whatever the appropriate fielding numbers are, our infielders are going to have to hit like crazy to be equal in value.

  84. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Of course some of those put outs will be from assists by other fielders on the diamond as well, but I never said this was exact science. Its a high level look at what kind of gap exists between Jeter and other SSs.

  85. Russell Munson March 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    “How are put outs not a part of balls in zone? ”

    They are not included in the RZR numbers you are using.

    Plays made
    Aybar: 257
    Jeter: 239

    BIZ
    Aybar: 324
    Jeter: 320

    OOZ
    Aybar: 57
    Jeter: 61

    Put outs + assists:
    Aybar: 591
    Jeter: 496

    So is your claim that Aybar made 270 more plays than he had balls in his zone plus out of zone?

  86. Russell Munson March 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    It’s like Aybar is making magic outs appear out of thin air.

  87. Jerkface March 25th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    You said that any discrepancy would be based around lack of chances. The Balls in Zone shows a similar amount of balls going to SS for Aybar. In the end he landed 95 more assists+putouts combined. I never based anything around the BIZ to begin with, I was merely using it as an example that they likely had a similar amount of chances.

    I mean I could just point to Jeter’s hilariously awful UZR in 2012 to say he is a bad fielder, but I think even using basic old timey box score figures such as assists and put outs can tell you that he isn’t very good.

  88. Russell Munson March 25th, 2014 at 11:42 am

    And I’m saying that you can’t just add put outs and assists because they are not the same thing as balls in zone. Explain the 270 play discrepancy between balls in zone and PO + A.

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