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Baseball still adjusting — and getting used to — new replay system

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 21, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Girardi replayLast night, the Yankees had Brett Gardner’s fly out changed to an RBI double; they had Ichiro Suzuki’s key late-inning steal changed to a rally-killing out; and they had an attempted double play result in no outs — and eventually a run — because Brian Roberts didn’t make a clean transfer at second base. It was a game that could have been a lot different a year ago.

“I’m glad to get out on top, but I’ve never seen more replays,” Mark Teixeira said. “I still don’t understand some of those calls today, but hey, we got the win. That’s all that matters. … The Gardner (play), I still think that should have been a home run because we’re told to play through. The release transfer play is a silly rule, if you ask me. We’ve been playing the game for 100 years. You’ve got to be quick at second base for a double play. That’s a weird play. Ichi’s call gets reversed. You have to get used to seeing those kind of calls in a game. It kind of disrupts the flow a little bit.”

It’s the brave new world of instant replay and adjusted rules interpretations.

The Gardner play was initially ruled an out after Wil Myers wound up with the deep fly ball in his glove. The Yankees finished off the play as if Myers had not made the catch, and because Myers never threw the ball in from the outfield, Gardner came around for what was — according to what actually transpired on the field — a two-run, inside-the-park home run. When replay showed the Myers had, in fact, simply caught the ball off the wall, the umpires decided to give Gardner a double because the play had been ruled dead when the umpires made their incorrect out call.

That’s one of the odd wrinkles still being worked out with instant replay. Does a play continue just in case a call is reversed, or should play stop as soon as any call is made, even though the call could be overturned? The Yankees were taught in spring training to play through, but it didn’t matter last night.

Rob Drake, Joe West“You’re rewarding (Myers) for acting like he caught it when he knew he didn’t catch it,” Gardner said. “That’s what I was confused about. I don’t think that anything like this has happened before so they really couldn’t give me an answer. You’re taught to keep playing, and I don’t see where it’s any different than maybe a continuation play with a guy scoring from second to home where maybe the first baseman comes off the bag on a ground ball. You’re taught to keep running, and everybody in the dugout was telling me to keep running because it was obvious to them that he didn’t catch the ball.”

The other replay from last night was more cut-and-dry – Ichiro was called safe; he was really out – and the Yankees were instead left asking questions about a play that wasn’t reviewed at all. When Brian Roberts tried to turn two in the seventh inning, he gathered the throw to second base, then dropped the ball while trying to make the quick turn. In previous years, the runner at second would almost certainly have been called out because Roberts dropped the ball on the transfer, but the league is now saying that a second baseman or shortstop must control the ball all the way – catch, turn, and throw – in order to get even one out on a potential double play.

Ken Rosenthal wrote last week that such a strict interpretation of the transfer rule could change before the end of the season, but for last night, the Yankees knew they had no chance of getting the Roberts call overturned.

“You’ve got to make the transfer and he didn’t do it,” Joe Girardi said. “He didn’t have a grip on the ball, so that’s why I didn’t replay it.”

Associated Press photos

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48 Responses to “Baseball still adjusting — and getting used to — new replay system”

  1. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:33 pm
    “apparently the same manager who changed pitchers before the pinch-hitter was announced last night…”

    Heavens to Betsy.

    Farrell had a brain fart ?

    He doesn’t look old enough.
    =====================================
    …the same night he didn’t send bucholz home to get a good night’s sleep before an 11 am game. not a good night for the skipper…

  2. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    With all of it’s flaws and/or pitfalls the use of replay has to be better than relying strictly on the Umps.

    They’ll eventually get it right.

  3. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Y’s-

    Hearing that just breaks my heart.

    ;)

  4. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Can’t wait for machines to call balls and strikes too.

    Some of these umps don’t have a clue as to what the strike zone is and just invent their own.

    ;)

  5. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:47 pm

    Absurd to think of “pitcher-friendly” or “hitter-friendly” umps.

    That’s what happens with human judges.

    Some of them aren’t even consistent in administering their incorrect strike zones.

    Too funny.

    :shock:

  6. hardwired7 April 21st, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    Baseball should adjust — and get used to — no Joe West.

  7. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    HW-

    Like to see Joe Worst roll off into the Sunset.

  8. austinmac April 21st, 2014 at 5:53 pm

    I didn’t know about the genius Farrell’s screw up. I also enjoyed the other genius’, Madden, intentional walk blow up.

  9. austinmac April 21st, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    I thought last night’s ump was very strike zone generous. Some of the low pitches are never called strikes. It worked both ways, but a strike really should be a strike.

    Is the pitch location on gameday accurate? How is it done?

  10. Rule 9 April 21st, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    The transfer rule needs to revert back to its previous enforcement and needs to be reviewable. The neighborhood play needs to be reviewable.

  11. mick April 21st, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    I don’t remember if anyone was on when Gardy hit his “double” but say there was a runner on 1st.

    Does he score or is it treated as a grounds rule double would be?

  12. Rule 9 April 21st, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    I don’t know what the rule is. It should be the judgment of the umpires on the field and the umpires reviewing the replay in New York. It was not a grounds rule double.

    Previous to this year, if a fan interfered with a live ball with a runner on first, it was the discretion of the umpires on the field to keep the runner at 3rd or send him home.

  13. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    “mick April 21st, 2014 at 6:04 pm
    I don’t remember if anyone was on when Gardy hit his “double” but say there was a runner on 1st.

    Does he score or is it treated as a grounds rule double would be”
    ===============================
    thats up to the best judgement of the replay ump.

    i thought gardner should have been given third (so did sweeny murti).

  14. Tar April 21st, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    J ALfred

    “Are you going to Lakewood to see Severino?” If so have a great time. :D

  15. exiledintampa April 21st, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    Granderson on the Mets reminds me more of George Foster than Jason Bay.

  16. Tar April 21st, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    “The transfer rule needs to revert back to its previous enforcement and needs to be reviewable. The neighborhood play needs to be reviewable.”

    The neighborhood play is all about cutting down on injuries. I’m ok with them leaving that to the umps discretion.

    I have no idea why they messed with the transfer rule. It seems they made it more complicated.

  17. mick April 21st, 2014 at 6:13 pm

    thats up to the best judgement of the replay ump.
    ===========================
    as it should be as they have access to where gardy was on the bases.
    but i thought the field umps judged that gardy would only have been at 2nd.

  18. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    foster played parts of 5 seasons for the mets and put up a .728 OPS with 99HR and 361 rbi. bay played parts of 3 seasons and put up a .687 OPS.

    granderson’s ops with the yankees (4 seasons) was .829.

  19. Rule 9 April 21st, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Then every neighborhood play should be ruled an out on the field. If the 2nd base ump decides he saw the foot of Roberts not touch the 2nd base bag, it would not be appropriate to rule the runner safe at 2nd.

  20. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    the on-field call was out. on review gardner was put on 2nd. i believe it was the replay ump who decided that.

  21. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    they specifically took the neighborhood play out of the perview of the replay ump. i dnot have too much of a problem with how it’s been called for a very long time.

    my biggest objection was on tag plays on the bases, i always thought the umps missed a ton of those, especially on stolen bases. i’d like to see the stats so far on overturned calls on steals.

  22. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    lots of hype about trout-harper tonight. meanwhile, who’s tied for the AL lead in home runs?

    form wash-ups albert pujols and jose bautista.

  23. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    *former*

  24. Hankflorida April 21st, 2014 at 6:44 pm

    If Cashman is trying to emulate what the Cardinals did last year, his vision must be based on less power and more strategic hitting in order to make the Yanks a more balanced team. The Cardinals only hit 125 home runs but scored 783 runs, and that has to be contrasted to the Yanks who hit 144 round trippers but only scored 640 playing with the DH. Power players cost more and having more banjo hitters on a team certainly brings the cost down. The idea is to have Punch and Judy hitters who can deliver with runners in scoring position, and it is a must that Ellsbury, Gardner and Johnson bat in more then the 50 runs that they did last year. Can this team produce when it counts as right now, it is much too early to tell as it is a work in progress?

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Tar :)

    Watchimg him right now :)

    He’s wild ATM but has rep for impeccable command. See if he settle down.

  26. GregD April 21st, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    Shame Spencer April 21st, 2014 at 4:50 pm
    GregD April 21st, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Deep fried fruit….whoa…… :)

    ————————

    I appreciate the effort Greg.

    Now might be a good time to express how excited I am that we shall all live on for eternity in the cyberverse. These thoughts you deem worthy enough to type and submit on Lohud are tiny gifts to the future.

    Remember this.

    ————–
    I will remember……..

  27. GregD April 21st, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    JAP!!! Reports on Severino!!!! Please…. :)

  28. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    Right now he looks a lot like DePaula to me

  29. mick April 21st, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    If anything the Yanks resemble the past few years teams that were full of hairy monsters and didn’t deliver if only HR’s and they were criticized for thiss.
    This team has it share of potential hairy monsters in McCann, Tex, Soriano and Beltran.
    The idea that they are the Bronx Banjos might be premature.
    I don’t believe Beltran and McCann are that one dimensional. Soriano , at times, can be.
    Tex appears to have become Giambi reincarnate.

  30. Tar April 21st, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    “Then every neighborhood play should be ruled an out on the field. If the 2nd base ump decides he saw the foot of Roberts not touch the 2nd base bag, it would not be appropriate to rule the runner safe at 2nd.”

    I believe the vast majority of neighborhood plays are called out. But it is at the umps discretion, so that means there will be plays ( for whatever reason) that don’t meet that particulars umps discretion.

    As for the Roberts play, I believe it was more about controlling the ball, than it was about the neighborhood play. WHich would go back to the transfer rule change.

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    GRwgD – finally web offspeed
    After
    Just overpowering hitters
    To get
    Two swng g strikes
    For second K.

  32. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    bobby abreu is now a met, but he’s not in the starting lineup tonight against the cardinals.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 6:55 pm

    Stick Michael in the house,
    Talking someone’s ear off per usual :)

  34. GregD April 21st, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    JAP——I have heard nothing but good things about him……..sounds like he is continuing to excel

  35. Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    the mets are borrowing the padres’s cami jerseys tonight…

  36. pete2 April 21st, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    I guess I don’t understand why replay would necessitate a change in the interpretation of the rule in terms of what is a catch

    In terms of continuation of a play, when the umpire calls a 3rd out play stops. Not sure anyone has ever implied it would not be the case. Running hard and disregarding the call can influence the decision by the umpires as to where to a assign runners after a call is overturned. In this case there really did not seem to any great angles showing both the non-catch and where Gardner was but he had just reached 2B when Myers was already running in so you can conclude he was not at 2B when the ump called the ball out.

  37. pete2 April 21st, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    austinmac April 21st, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    I thought last night’s ump was very strike zone generous. Some of the low pitches are never called strikes. It worked both ways, but a strike really should be a strike.

    Is the pitch location on gameday accurate? How is it done?
    ===============

    I believe they just use the raw data from the pitch f/x system. This may not be 100% accurate especially for low pitches since the strike zone has to be adjusted for each batters due to body geometries, and I am not sure pitch f/x does that. It may do so but I have seen some pitches on gameday that looked like clear balls or strikes and look different on BrooksBaseball, so am just guessing that thats the difference. I don’t notice that as much for balls inside or outside.

  38. Hankflorida April 21st, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    Mick, I agree with you that the Yanks are not completely the Bronx Banjos and do have some power, and if McCaan, Tex, Soriano and Beltran can be the hairy monsters that drive in 100 runs while the other five just do what they did in previous years, then each one of the five be it Roberts or Solarte will drive in 50 runs. With this number, we are back to last years total of averaging 4 runs a game. Unless our pitching is lights out, that is not enough runs to get us there. Our table setters have to pitch in with RISP and produce as the three run homer is not the name of the new Yankee game. The goal is to emulate last year’s Cardinals who average .300 with RISP. Does anybody disagree that this was Cashman’s plan to dismantle the Bronx Bombers, and dismantle is a perfect word because Mickey Mantle was a symbol of the Bronx Bombers.

  39. pete2 April 21st, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Hankflorida April 21st, 2014 at 6:44 pm

    If Cashman is trying to emulate what the Cardinals did last year, his vision must be based on less power and more strategic hitting in order to make the Yanks a more balanced team. The Cardinals only hit 125 home runs but scored 783 runs, and that has to be contrasted to the Yanks who hit 144 round trippers but only scored 640 playing with the DH. Power players cost more and having more banjo hitters on a team certainly brings the cost down. The idea is to have Punch and Judy hitters who can deliver with runners in scoring position, and it is a must that Ellsbury, Gardner and Johnson bat in more then the 50 runs that they did last year. Can this team produce when it counts as right now, it is much too early to tell as it is a work in progress?
    ==========================

    Actually, I think the Yankees will hit 170+ HR which is more than the Red Sox hit last year. If you recall, what hurt the Cardinlas most in the post season was a lack of HR whereas the Red Sox had key HR with ROB. I think Cashman went with what was available rather than with a master plan to change approach

    While the team is not the Bronx Bombers, it is not the Bronx Banjos either. One paper there is some good balance. Speed and singles hitters who work the count, a power guy who K’s a lot, and some in between guys who can hit with a bit of power and get on base.

    The biggest problem this year has been their hitting with RISP. That could be just a SSS fluke which will regress to league averages or higher.

    So many players on the Yankees can’t play everyday so the bench will have a big impact on their overall offense. So far Solarte and Ichiro are the only members on the bench to produce, and they have outproduced some of the starters, but if they fall to earth then the starters like Tex, Roberts, McCann and Johnson are going to have to hit better than they have.

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    Judge rocket over CF head has two of 3 Charleston hits. He’s huge

  41. pete2 April 21st, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    Jerkface April 21st, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    so wait, the yankees are going to have a soccer team playing at the stadium during the season for 3 years!?! that is potential disaster, imo.

    Its crazy that their new, billion dollar stadium is going to rent out to a sport that plays in season with the Yankees. Not only that but one that trashes up the field. Really bad.
    =========================

    Its not going to help the IF defense that’s for sure, and it could contribute to a few injuries in the OF. But its good for the bottom line so maybe the Yankees can expand their budget a little.

  42. jlyanks85 April 21st, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    Ys Guy April 21st, 2014 at 7:03 pm
    the mets are borrowing the padres’s cami jerseys tonight…

    Yanks are only team in baseball that don’t have like 10 different uniforms. One home and one road, keep it simple which I like.

  43. tomingeorgia April 21st, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    JAP,
    Frank Howard huge?

  44. Rule 9 April 21st, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    I used Roberts name as an example. The play at 2nd base yesterday was indeed a call regarding the transfer rule.

  45. MTU April 21st, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    How will Tanaka pitch to deal w the quirks of Fenway ?

  46. pete2 April 21st, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    MTU April 21st, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    How will Tanaka pitch to deal w the quirks of Fenway ?
    ===================

    20 K’s

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock April 21st, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    Yes on Howard, the guy is 6-7 and built like a tank. That was a standup triple, runs well

    Severino dominant GregD

  48. austinmac April 21st, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Pete,

    Thanks for your gameday info.

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