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Soriano: “Tough times before, but nothing like this”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 04, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Alfonso Soriano

Alfonso Soriano has been on the bench a little more often lately, and there’s a pretty good reason for that. He’s hitless with eight strikeouts in his past 11 at-bats. He struck out three times last night.

“I see the ball good, and I’m not making contact,” Soriano said. “So I think just because my timing is off, I have to work on my timing, and let the ball come to me, and not try to hit the ball in front. I just have to get my timing back.”

Most of Soriano’s struggles have come against right-handed pitching — he’s hit .195/.221/.341 against righties — but last night’s strikeouts all came against the lefty Scott Kazmir, and that’s a problem because the Yankees are counting on Soriano to be a source of right-handed power. While Carlos Beltran is on the disabled list, Soriano is really the only outfielder with typical middle-of-the-order power.

But that raw power doesn’t help if he’s not making contact.

“It’s very tough,” Soriano said. “Like a veteran, I’ve just had tough times before, but nothing like this. Sooner or later I’m going to come out and be fine again.”

The Yankees seem to be hoping that true for a lot of their hitters. Beltran seems to be getting close, and Mark Teixeira had an impact last night, but the Yankees need more production from Soriano and several others.

“You just got to keep running them out there,” Joe Girardi said. “And they’ve got to get the job done. That’s the bottom line. We’ve had different people in the lineup, and everyone’s had a shot. We’ll continue to try to put out what we feel is the best matchups against certain people, and we’ve got to get it done.”

Associated Press photo

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298 Responses to “Soriano: “Tough times before, but nothing like this””

  1. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 9:09 am

    “You just got to keep running them out there,” Joe Girardi said.

    ——————-

    Lol.

  2. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 9:13 am

    Joe, you really think continuining to run Soriano out there is a good idea? Frankly, that seems like an awful idea, but the options are limited as well. Ichiro provides a few singles and that is it. We need extra base hits.

    Rebuilding requires a lot of bricks and mortar. The AAA team is composed mostly of older guys with no upside. The AA team has Refsnyder producing, Sanchez doing decently and the rest underperforming. So, are we rebuilding with guys who will not be in the big leagues for two or three years if all goes well(Imagine that?).

    Unless one accepts the team being well below .500 for a number of years, they cannot simply get young with the minor league system they have so mishandled. The solution is to take on short term money or see if Soriano can actually hit a ball hard sometime in the forseeable future.

  3. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 9:22 am

    Mac, Kuroda was in form last night. does he have a NTC?

  4. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 9:25 am

    I sorta get the idea that by continuing to throw the guys out there (specifically Soriano), they will eventually break out of their slump and start to hit.

    But sometimes, being benched when you expect to play, and generally being out of the action for a time, maybe clears your head a little and you can reset? Remove the guy from his frustration a little? Even Beltran – well, he was not doing well before the DL stint, and sure that probably had a lot to do with both the elbow and whatever aches and pains he had from falling over the wall in Tampa, but he might come back refreshed and give some offense. I know it’s a lot of mights and maybes, but I don’t think the Yankees are in any real position to do anything else right now.

    There really are no immediate solutions here aside from having the faith that the under performers will start to do something.

    And Brendan Ryan is a part-time player that has to be able to bunt. Has to. Because he’s not a guy who’s known for his bat….

    I have to say I am most incredulous about their lack of any oomph at home (I don’t just mean HR power, I mean everything).

  5. Heel June 4th, 2014 at 9:26 am

    DFA Soriano, Aceves, Claiborne. Start to clean the roster up. Bring up players from the minors and hope you can find something as you did with the signing of Solarte.

  6. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Unless one accepts the team being well below .500 for a number of years, they cannot simply get young with the minor league system they have so mishandled. The solution is to take on short term money or see if Soriano can actually hit a ball hard sometime in the forseeable future.
    =====
    what i see here is the lack of trust in cashman to develop a fertile farm. a team that has already committed to massive financial stake in the next 3 years. what do you do is an interesting question. I don’t think either thoughts of reinforcement or rebuilding are absurd.

    the question most have is the execution of FO plus Cashman in executing either.

  7. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 9:36 am

    make no mistake, if the yankees happen to miraculous decide it’s time to revamp and rebuild, it will take more than a year. I think 3 year period is somewhat realistic.

    mac, you are right imo in terms of this team lacks the elite prospects that would entice fans to watch during a rebuilding process as of now. but Rome wasn’t built in one day. If YES wants a consistent juggernaut again, it might be the only way.

  8. blake June 4th, 2014 at 9:36 am

    I don’t think you DFA Sori at all…..he still has RH power and that’s useful. What they need to do is get him into a role he can have success at and that’s probably only batting against LHP and being a power bat off the bench…..of course to do that they have to get somebody to replace him in the every day lineup……anybody out there that comes to mind? That they could sign for just money?/

  9. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Mark Feinsand ? @FeinsandNYDN
    No official word from the Yankees, but Aceves appeared to be packing up after the game. Expect him to be DFA Wednesday for LHP Wade LeBlanc.

    There’s this. A step in the right direction anyway….

  10. Heel June 4th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Soriano is a strikeout machine. He rarely even makes contact. He is of no use as a starter or a pinch hitter if he can’t make contact. Put him out to pasture.

  11. blake June 4th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Happy trails Aceves…..can’t say it was fun

  12. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 9:41 am

    what i think is this … looking at this team… if you going to lose, don’t be shy, go all the way, i don’t want a 80 wins team, gimme top five pick next year to start.

    yankees absolutely tanking might be the best thing that can happen to this team in the long term in term of forcing their hands to make a decision. the catch 22 is i don’t really trust cashman in making good moves in either mode.

  13. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Morning all:

    For me, last night’s defeat was the most devastating so far this year…I had a hard time sleeping. Those are the type of games we simply must win if we’re to stay relevant for the rest of the season. How could they toss away a gem from Kuroda like that?

    I think we all feared the worst when they failed to tack on an insurance run in the eighth and then stranded Ellsbury at third in the ninth.

    As for Soriano, he is just one of a number of veteran cast-offs we have clogging up our roster. Add Johnson, Roberts, Ryan, Sizemore – and, yes, even Ichiro – to that list. They were all jettisoned for a reason – they’re just not very good any more.

    The 2014 New York Yankees are in grave danger of turning into the Seattle Mariners of recent years. Only one game will matter each week…the one Tanaka starts. The rest will be meaningless contests played in front of a half-empty Yankee Stadium.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 9:56 am

    I would love to see this team have a real chance in Jeter’s final year, but I don’t want to see Cliff Lee and Utley in the Bronx.

    That’s going to cost the soon-to-arrive future in Gary Sanchez, at the very least, plus probably someone like Severino, possibly a Bryan Mitchell, maybe a Judge, and probably Betances, etc.

    You just can’t keep being caught half-way there (that’s even optimistic) and “compromising the lack” as Ian Hunter would say, and find yourself on any kind of solid footing.

    They’re where they are because they were so focused on maintaining the status quo, starting in 2010.

    They have Tanaka, Betances, Solarte and JR to build with, the rest are guys who will likely decline (just like in 2010 it was obvious in that ALCS that age had set upon them but they did nothing about it going forward; except this assortment of 30-somethings aren’t nearly as good as those guys).

    Their one chance in what is a mediocre AL East field this year was Nova not getting hurt, Pineda’s shoulder defying the odds, and the troika of Tanaka-Nova-Pineda running the table in 3 of 5 games to make up for the lacking OPS.

    If they were creative in the least, they would shift Betances, bring up one of the back-end types from Pinder/Burawa, bring up Heredia, and go Tanaka-Betances for every 1-2 game of each series. If Kuroda could continue to pitch like he did last night, then that would be a huge boost, and we’d have two shutdown starters and one dependable veteran, and you see what happens.

    But they’re not doing that – they’ll destroy more of the future for short-term gain because they are scared to upset the status quo.

  15. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    Mark Feinsand ? @FeinsandNYDN
    No official word from the Yankees, but Aceves appeared to be packing up after the game. Expect him to be DFA Wednesday for LHP Wade LeBlanc.

    There’s this. A step in the right direction anyway….
    ///

    Except it’s hard to take a step in the right direction when you have failed to build a solid foundation to stand on. Whoever said “there’s nothing to transition to” is right – that wasn’t the case several years ago. You can’t keep slapping on mortar and never lay a new floor, you’re not going to be able to say upright for very long.

  16. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    You’re right, Pruf. Much as Utley would massively improve this team in the short-term, we’ve got to stop trying to apply band-aids to the wound and opt for major surgery instead.

  17. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 10:10 am

    I spent a lot time in Philly territory, let’s just say NYY have the pieces philly desires for a Utley. Chase has a NTC and their GM has no intention of trading him as of now.

    “You just got to keep running them out there,”

    This reads like the NYY solution. the proactive part I imaging is leblancesque picks up and maybe a b list acquisition at TD. That, with a prayer is NYY way of late.

  18. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    *pick ups

  19. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    J. Alfred -

    But you have to start somewhere, and acknowledging that Aceves is a problem is a step, and it’s not in the wrong direction, and at least that particular mistake/misery will be excised.

  20. NYY fan in NH June 4th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    This ship is sinking fast with this team. I need to take a break from this team. It is abysmal to watch them. Can’t score runs and the BP is overused and giving up a ton of runs in the later innings.

  21. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    But I do think that a statement has to be made. I don’t miss the days of people getting fired left and right, but I think a key dismissal at some point could serve to wake people up. Though, I don’t know, what’s the incentive, really? People get paid no matter how they perform. So, they go home early, no October. It’s not like they need the players need the playoff money to avoid having to work a second job.

    And as long as there are these injuries there is a ready-made excuse for the troubles.

  22. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    Greatest Hits because truth never fades:

    On Soriano:

    . . . Let’s switch gears. What about Soriano? I think about six days ago I came out on this site and officially declared him done. And I said exactly why. 50 to 5. 10 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio. I had just discovered that and it occurred to me that you can’t recover from that kind of ineptitude. That’s a sign you are done.

    And since my post, he’s just gotten worse. If that’s even possible. He can’t pick up the ball.

    This isn’t a mystery here. I’ve been saying this for over a week now. The Yanks need to get Younger and Better. That’s the mantra.

    Just like the team they played tonight

    ———
    On the bullpen and it’s impact:

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar…..wn-kelley/

    Here’s an article that outlines the problems with the bullpen. It’s about a week old. It identifies four losses tied to the bullpen in May because Warren and Betances were overused and unavailable. Last night makes it five. Add two blown saves and tonight now we are up to eight losses just since May 1st. I bet you can find two more in April at least. That’s 10 losses tied to the bullpen in just a third of a season.

    People who watch baseball really don’t know what counts. What determines wins and losses. Bad defense, especially bad infield defense, looks really really bad. But it rarely decides games for reasons I’ve outlined many times over the last few months. But a bad bullpen almost always counts. If it fails, it almost always factors in a loss. Infield defense almost never does. This Yankee season is a perfect expression of these differing effects.

    —–

    The difference between the Yanks and the A’s:

    Fans really shouldn’t get too upset about tonight’s loss. The Yanks were very competitive tonight. Their defense was great! But they were beaten by a much much better team. And a Younger team.

    Look at the A’s lineup. I think except for the last batter, every hitter had an OBP .340 or better. And lots of power too. Look at the Yanks lineup. The only credible hitters are Ellsbury, Tex and Solarte and maybe John Ryan. Ok, Gardner too but a LF should really have some power don’t ya think?

    The Yanks shouldn’t beat the A’s. But maybe they can learn from them. Learn the value of platoons (Almonte!!!). A practice practically invented by Casey Stengel. Learn the value of on base percentage. Something Stick brought to the team in the 1980s.

    Somewhere, somehow, things just got all screwed up. But all is not lost. The Yanks aren’t bad. Just average. That means they are just one good offseason away from being really good.

    Transition Year. Embrace it!

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    bruceb – But they aren’t going to honestly stare down the barrel of truth.

    They just don’t do honest self-appraisals. Hal isn’t capable of doing it; he doesn’t know what baseball truth looks like, doesn’t know where to find a solution, even if he were earnestly searching, and I don’t think he is.

  24. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    that’s fine, I pray the ship is not moored at a shoal…. go all the way to bottom, implode, rot away.

    time for some new planks and a dry dock.

  25. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Seriously, dan?

  26. blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:22 am

    “You’re right, Pruf. Much as Utley would massively improve this team in the short-term, we’ve got to stop trying to apply band-aids to the wound and opt for major surgery instead.”

    here is the problem though……..a major overhaul is gonna take years. This club’s farm system is not ready to make this a quick 2 or 3 year rebuild I don’t think.

    They chose their path last winter and it was to win now……they only have Tanaka for 3 more years guaranteed…..and Ellsbury, McCann, and Beltran’s best years are likely to be the next 2 or 3 as well……plus CC and Tex are only gonna get older.

    As I said yesterday……this is a win now team than may not be able to win now……but they almost have to try given the investments they have made.

    I’d try to get Lee, Morales, and Headley and see what happens……only Lee puts money on the 2015 books and if he continues to be good he’d be worth what he’s paid.

  27. blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:23 am

    “Fans really shouldn’t get too upset about tonight’s loss. The Yanks were very competitive tonight. Their defense was great! ”

    they played good defense for 1 game! Lets throw a party……their infield D has been atrocious this season…..and when you can’t score that bites you. They can’t hit and they can’t field and somehow they are above .500……

  28. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:24 am

    LeBlanc is a weird move… I’d still rather have Ramirez or Burawa or Pinder or Montgomery up here instead.

  29. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Doreen, I agree that Aceves being gone is better than Aceves being brought in to throw pitches that wind up in the Harlem River.

    But that’s the easiest correction to get rid of a bullpen arm that is failing.

    What else they got?

  30. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 10:26 am

    J. Alfred -

    I guess we’ll find out, but I’m not too hopeful.

  31. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:22 am
    “You’re right, Pruf. Much as Utley would massively improve this team in the short-term, we’ve got to stop trying to apply band-aids to the wound and opt for major surgery instead.”

    here is the problem though……..a major overhaul is gonna take years. This club’s farm system is not ready to make this a quick 2 or 3 year rebuild I don’t think.

    ————–

    I wanna say Lee and Utley make no sense for the direction this team is trying to take… but I have no idea what direction they’re going in. If they’re trying to win now, in 2014-15, you can make a case for both acquisitions. If they’re trying to win in 2016-18, it makes no sense to push for them.

  32. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 10:29 am

    And if you really feel down, just think how much better next year’s infield will be with significant improvements at 3b (Arod), SS (Jeter’s replacement) and 2b (Solarte). That’ a major major upgrade.

    So let’s see how Nuno does tonight against a real tough lineup. Information gathering. The audition continues. . . .

    Transition Year–Embrace it!

    Oh, and a big part of transition is getting rid of dead wood. You don’t have to wait till the offseason for that. I told everyone Soriano was dead a week ago.

  33. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 10:29 am

    So I take it the comment section was basically hell on Earth last night huh

  34. Heel June 4th, 2014 at 10:31 am

    LeBlanc makes perfect sense for the Yanks. Retread, journeyman crap. Throw it at the wall and hope it sticks. Maybe they think he’s Matt LeBlanc?

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:33 am

    here is the problem though……..a major overhaul is gonna take years. This club’s farm system is not ready to make this a quick 2 or 3 year rebuild I don’t think.
    ///

    Can’t keep doing this, blake, because 2-3 years then becomes 6-7, a decade of barrenness.

    Be one thing if they needed a player or two. Even though the AL East is comparatively weak than past years, us getting two players for a bundle of prospects still doesn’t guarantee anything at all.

    Then you go out again in the ALDS’s fifth game – or you get steamrolled again by a pitching staff like Detroit’s… whatever; if you don’t win, you’ve again mortgaged away future pieces that could actually help you build something genuine finally.

  36. mick June 4th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    Sori is in denial.
    Maybe he will hit again when it’s over 85 degrees.

  37. RoS June 4th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    The Yankees can’t build anything anyways, so they’re not mortgaging anything. Betances failed as a starter, Ivan Nova too. Pineda will never be seen again on a mound. The hitting stinks and that won’t change as long as Kevin Long is at the helm.

  38. longtimefan June 4th, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Truth is this team is bad in almost every aspect necessary to be successful, can’t really blame the players assuming they are trying their best, blame has to go on the people who constructed this team. Outside of Tanaka and the feel good story of Solarte the others acquired or brought back from last year were poor decisions. I don’t think there is any one or two acquisitions that will suddenly lift this team to the post season, they are in need of an almost a complete overhaul and we know thats not going to happen.

  39. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    Blake:

    The Yanks are always a “win now” team. When was the last time they weren’t? But situations change. Despite what some people say, no one could have predicted we would lose three fifths of our starting rotation.

    The injuries to Beltran, Tex, CC etc. were more predictable.

    Many on here have been clamoring for the Yanks to sign Morales. The trouble is we’re not one player away from being a contender. Are we going to be seduced by the second wild card for the second year running?

  40. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    I told everyone Soriano was dead a week ago.

    —————

    Myself and others told everyone Vernon Wells was dead wood before he signed…. he was on the team throughout the remainder of the 2013 season.

    I think they should cut a bunch of guys, but they’re not going to. Especially not a guy like Soriano who can hit HRs who is mostly costing the Cubs money. With Beltran in question, they’ll hold Sori even tighter in order to not have to find another bat. It’s how they work. They make me so, so sad.

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    I wanna say Lee and Utley make no sense for the direction this team is trying to take… but I have no idea what direction they’re going in. If they’re trying to win now, in 2014-15, you can make a case for both acquisitions. If they’re trying to win in 2016-18, it makes no sense to push for them.
    ///

    The problem is, anything short of winning it all and it fails.

    If a Cinderella team makes an improbable run that falls short, well kudos – no one expected it and they gave the city some October excitement.

    If a team with an up-and-coming nucleus of talent comes close, great – “their time will come” and all of that.

    If Lee and Utley cost us Sanchez, Severino, Betances, Judge, Refsnyder, etc, – and we don’t win a championship… they’re not on the cusp of winning anything…. if they were to win, it would be serendipity…

    Can’t play the dinosaur game yet again. At least, not at the expense of Gary Sanchez et al.

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    I told everyone Soriano was dead a week ago.

    —————

    Myself and others told everyone Vernon Wells was dead wood before he signed…. he was on the team throughout the remainder of the 2013 season.
    ///

    LOL, and Cashman had been “trying to get him for a few years,” or whatever he said, as if he’d just landed Matt Holliday.

  43. blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    “Can’t keep doing this, blake, because 2-3 years then becomes 6-7, a decade of barrenness.”

    again…..they chose their path last winter. It depends on what it’d cost of course but the Yankees don’t have any cast miss prospects…..it’s not like they have Javier Baez and a bunch of studs sitting there at AAA.

    We don’t have to like the path they have chosen……but that’s over with…..they are a win now team so they need to try to do what it takes to win now.

  44. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Are we going to be seduced by the second wild card for the second year running?

    —————

    Yep. One playoff game would be worth it for the FO. The team will stay around 3-5 games out through the summer and it’ll be the excuse for not being sellers.

    This season is eerily similar to last year. All they need to do is post a crap record in June and it’s following almost the same script. The only good thing is the division is a little tighter I think.. gotta hope someone falls off.

  45. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 10:44 am

    This talk of rebuild and a massive infusion from the farm is utter nonsense. The farm is hardly a solution at all and isn’t even needed for this team.

    This isn’t a rebuild It’s a transition.

    Just look at next year’s team. It’s pretty close to being pretty damn good. Basically a FA SS and SP away.

    Look at the OF. A pretty good left-fielder and a real good CF. The DH may be excellent. RF is uncertain but I think that may be the one position the Yanks could use the farm for and the solution is probably already here–in AAA.

    Look at the infield. Major upgrades at 3b, SS and 2b. Tex a year removed from the wrist.

    Probably best group of catchers in the game.

    A starting rotation led by Tanaka, hopefully an excellent No 2 FA and tons and tons of possibilities to fill out the rest including Pineda, Nova and CC.

    A young bullpen of power arms.

    That will be the start of the Tanaka Years run. Would have been nice if it had started this year but there really were too any holes to fill and a Farewell Tour to conduct.

  46. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    LOL, and Cashman had been “trying to get him for a few years,” or whatever he said, as if he’d just landed Matt Holliday.

    ————–

    I don’t wanna relive that moment… the FO politics is what’s caused this mess in the first place. I’ve never seen a situation where you have a team president openly making deals and talking with agents and players and a GM who is openly acknowledging opposition to such deals.

  47. Hankflorida June 4th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    We all know why Cashman dismantled the Bronx Bombers and that was because of the new age of computer baseball as he felt a balanced team would be able to beat the shifts and have more of a chance of playing better in the post season. He made a huge mistake and did not learn from last year. A balanced team has to have clutch hitters who can produce singles with RISP; he assembled his contact hitters who tend to hit better when the pitchers are not bearing down. He is stuck with these players so either they learn to play small ball or suffer the fate of last year.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    And if they wanted to “win now” then they had to pony up for Cano.

    When you’re going to empty your farm system for guys in their late 30′s because you were worried about paying a superstar player in his ninth and 10th contract years, then the cost of not re-signing the player is far greater than losing some “value” on the back-end of that deal, because it’s going to cost you your future, both in terms of talent and in having young players under team control for several years.

    The Yankees were not “smart” to not re-sign Cano. They are not the Cardinals. They were in no such position to let him go.

  49. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    JAP – I’d never imagine giving up that sort of haul for expensive, aging players like Lee or Utley. I dunno what AA can get for them but I’d be more interested in taking on the contracts and keeping as many prospects as possible. It’s just hard to figure out what this team is setting themselves up for. If they add two or three more big dollar deals this off season, they’ve likely just extended their slow decline and created even less fiscal maneuverability for 2017+.

  50. blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    I’d trade Sanchez for Lee and Utley in a heartbeat if he was the only significant piece in the deal……they have McCann and Murphy and Murphy might have already passed Sanchez in the long term pecking order.

  51. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    I should include that some of the appeal of guys like Lee and Utley is they won’t be on the books very long. You can’t get guys on the open market for those sorts of short term deals. Either or both players would come off the books along with CC, Tex, and Arod – creating a massive amount of payroll flexibility and, theoretically, time to map out an actual plan of action going forward.

  52. blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    “And if they wanted to “win now” then they had to pony up for Cano.”

    well obviously I agree but that’s in the past now…..nothing can be done about that.

    I don’t think Lee and Utley could cost “THAT” much given all the money you’d have to take on……I mean the Yankees are one of the only teams that could do that.

  53. RoS June 4th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    Hamels is the pitcher to target. A good 1-2-3 this year of Tanaka-Hamels-Kuroda and possible 1-2-3-4 next season of Tanaka-Hamels-Nova-Pineda.

  54. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:53 am
    I’d trade Sanchez for Lee and Utley in a heartbeat if he was the only significant piece in the deal.

    ——————

    I do agree here. McCann is here to stay with that contract and I think Murphy is the real deal. Sanchez will take years to make the bigs (under which Girardi will still be manager, keep in mind) so if he’s the only big piece you’re moving along with a Phelps-type pitcher and some B-prospects, I’d do it. At this point we don’t have much use for the OF prospects we’ve racked up, sadly.

    My ideal is a situation where McCann is the 1B providing pop, and Murphy + Sanchez are behind the dish in a tandem, but that’s a long while away and a lot can happen with Sanchez in between.

  55. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    “Can’t keep doing this, blake, because 2-3 years then becomes 6-7, a decade of barrenness.”

    again…..they chose their path last winter. It depends on what it’d cost of course but the Yankees don’t have any cast miss prospects…..it’s not like they have Javier Baez and a bunch of studs sitting there at AAA.

    We don’t have to like the path they have chosen……but that’s over with…..they are a win now team so they need to try to do what it takes to win now.
    /////

    Was Cano a “can’t miss” stud? They tried to deal him – thank God Texas and then the Diamondbacks didn’t want him at the time. If you part with your best prospects – especially when you have virtually no young position players in place who will be reasonably young in 3-4-5 years from now – you can’t just decide they’re expendable because none are apparent studs.

    The path they chose wasn’t “win now”, it was fake it that we wanna win now. If they were really looking to “win now” Cano would be here.

  56. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Hamels would cost a ton. I don’t see them moving him anyway, they’d probably build around him instead of trade him.

  57. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    This team and organization is not built for 2017 or 2018. Who can think that far ahead anyway? It’s not built for 2014 unfortunately either. It’s built for 2015, 2016 and 2017 (maybe).

    There isn’t one single acquisition that can fix the offense or starting pitching (except maybe Lee) for 2014 so get that out of your head right now. As I’ve been saying for a month now, the key for this team to remain competitive with it’s very flawed roster is bullpen depth. If the team had had a better bullpen this year they would have easily have 2-3 more wins right now. At least. The bullpen has been behind 8 losses just since May 1!

    Bullpens have a comparatively huge impact on game results. They are probably 20 times more important than infield defense. And they actually can be improved mid-season. It’s much harder to improve offense, defense and starting pitching.

    The Yanks can compete in this transition year. But they need two more relief pitchers.

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    I would not trade Sanchez for old players. No way.

  59. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 11:02 am

    I think any kind of transition has to include new blood in the front office and a new direction because I don’t really have much faith that the people who got them in this mess are going to make enough smart moves to get them out of it.

  60. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:03 am

    I don’t think Lee and Utley could cost “THAT” much given all the money you’d have to take on……I mean the Yankees are one of the only teams that could do that.
    ///

    Well, we don’t agree on what “that much” is. A Sanchez-centric package with guys like Severino and doubtless, Betances, is what it would take. Utley and Lee are ancient.

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    GF – of course I agree.

    Now how do we get rid of them? ;)

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:09 am

    If they add two or three more big dollar deals this off season, they’ve likely just extended their slow decline and created even less fiscal maneuverability for 2017+.
    ///

    Shame, that is exactly what they will do. That’s what they do.

  63. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 11:10 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    GF – of course I agree.

    Now how do we get rid of them? ;)

    —–

    Maybe someone can pose as a janitor and then plant incriminating evidence in the offices of Cashman, Levine, and perhaps even Hal for good measure so they have no choice but to resign from their respective positions.

  64. sunny615 June 4th, 2014 at 11:14 am

    danger… bridge years ahead… proceed with caution.

  65. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    Shame, that is exactly what they will do. That’s what they do.

    ————–

    It’s been their MO, that’s for sure. I think at some point though they should probably consider changing their business model to match the change in their business approach. On some level, it’s why people can make the case for guys like Lee. What they need are short term deals and an actual plan for how they want to spend their money in a couple of seasons when a bunch of cash comes off the books.

  66. RoS June 4th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    Giuseppe Franco is advocating a criminal conspiracy. SMFH

  67. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    “Was Cano a “can’t miss” stud? They tried to deal him – thank God Texas and then the Diamondbacks didn’t want him at the time.”

    that’s a pretty rare thing though……Montero was a can’t miss stud too and we see where he is now. Prospects are suspects until they prove they aren’t……Lee and Utley would greatly improve the yanks chances at a title in 2014 and 2015 ……

    I don’t want to ride a bridge to nowhere here…….I don’t like this continual duct tape a contender together thing anymore than the rest of you but it’s kinda their lot unfortunately……..you can’t have a young and upswinging team by just snapping your fingers. You have to plan for it for years and the yanks haven’t…….

    they haven’t taken the opportunity to trade maybe a Cano for an Odor from Texas when perhaps they could have……they haven’t taken the opportunity to keep their best draft pick in years when they could have…….they haven’t done a single thing to plan for a rebuild……you can’t force it…….it is what it is…….they are a win now team……..so go try to win.

  68. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:21 am

    The Yankees would be making a big mistake if they dealt valuable prospects for older vets to try and win this year. We are probably not going to win it all and even the second wild card is going to be tough. Welcome to the new paradigm; parity. Then there are the injuries.

    Injuries are the great equalizer and Sabathia, Tex, Beltran, Nova, Kelley and Pineda are just too much to lose for long periods of time. We’re talking about three starters and two middle of the order bats and your eighth inning reliever. This gets you Nuno, Aceves and Phelps.

    But this is nowhere near a re-build. Tanaka, Ellsbury, McCann, Gardner, Solarte, Robertson, Betances, Beltran and Warren are very good ballplayers and Nova will be back and hopefully will stay healthy. And there are others in the minors down the road that will help the team. Plus an international spending spree and some free agents and possible trades that make sense to come.

    This is baseball, there are thirty teams and not everyone can win every year. Yankee fans have to realize that you can’t just throw money around to succeed nor does it make sense to blame the manager, coaches and GM if other teams do better some years than we do.

    Soriano up until a few months ago had hit more home runs the last few years than anyone in baseball (or something like that), McCann is a seven time all-star, Ellsbury can hit and he is one of the best center-fielders, base stealers in baseball, Beltran was very good last season, Tanaka was a great signing. They were very smart for not giving in to Cano’s absurd demands and Roberts and Johnson would be adequate fill-ins this year if the middle-of-the order bats weren’t slumping or injured.

    The ship will get righted, go Yankees!

  69. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Project 189 decimated this team…….they let it rot for 3 years so Hal could have a chance to fullfill his fantasy of avoiding the luxury tax.

    Now they are old…..expensive…..and have no young big league ready talent or star power…..and they STILL didn’t avoid the luxury tax.

    It’s a joke……

  70. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....-contract/

    ——-

    Real good article on just how bad CC’s condition is and what we can expect. A real cautionary tale on giving big contracts to old guys. Especially old big guys.

    The writer pointed out the same comparison to Amare Stoudemire I did a couple of days ago. You never want to mention Amare and knees in the same sentence.

  71. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    Maybe someone can pose as a janitor and then plant incriminating evidence in the offices of Cashman, Levine, and perhaps even Hal for good measure so they have no choice but to resign from their respective positions.
    ///

    Well I can already see it on the front page of the News and Post.

    Levine runs the team so let’s start there.

  72. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    Yankee fans have to realize that you can’t just throw money around to succeed
    ——-
    i laughed a little.

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 11:26 am

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Project 189 decimated this team…….they let it rot for 3 years so Hal could have a chance to fullfill his fantasy of avoiding the luxury tax.

    Now they are old…..expensive…..and have no young big league ready talent or star power…..and they STILL didn’t avoid the luxury tax.

    It’s a joke……
    ///

    I came across a prescient post of CB’s from a few years ago regarding Hal’s business model and what was likely to chance. I’ll find it some time and post it; gotta go or I’d do it now.

  74. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:32 am

    “Project 189 decimated this team.”

    How can that be when even $188 would have been the highest or second highest payroll in baseball? And, this team is far from decimated. We’re five games behind the sizzling hot Jays and a half-game out of the wild card.

  75. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 11:34 am

    SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:32 am
    “Project 189 decimated this team.”

    How can that be when even $188 would have been the highest or second highest payroll in baseball?

    ————

    Because it was not a well thought out plan. They didn’t have the prospects nor the foresight to think it all the way through.

  76. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    When you assemble a roster full of age and high injury risk ballplayers you have very little room for error if and when guys go down for a significant length of time.

    Give a monkey a gun and when it shoots somebody you don’t blame the monkey.

    Cashman and Co. whined about last season’s team having such bad luck with injuries and he and the rest of the FO decision makers did the same thing for 2014.

  77. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 11:41 am

    there is really only two conclusion i draw about you sweet.

    1. NYY are paying you 10/hr to write the most mundane and insipid analysis on internet.

    2. you are not terribly bright if you can’t figure out why one 189 was not enough. empirically or just open your eye lid a tad would do.

  78. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    “How can that be when even $188 would have been the highest or second highest payroll in baseball? And, this team is far from decimated. We’re five games behind the sizzling hot Jays and a half-game out of the wild card.”

    how much of that money is paying dividends? You have over half of it that is either dead money or seriously underperforming.

    You can’t just look at the payroll and say…..”look they are paying a lot of money so they should be good”. You can’t spent 100k on a 89 camaro if you want…….it doesn’t make the 89 camaro a 2014 Ferari.

  79. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Because it was not a well thought out plan.

    ——————

    Not even that, there was no plan other than ‘don’t add any contracts to the books.’

    In theory it could make sense to some, but in practice they had to start selling players and attaining reasonable AAVs wherever possible (IFAs).

  80. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Yankee fans have to realize that you can’t just throw money around to succeed
    —-
    this is you best line though sweet.

  81. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    I don’t agree that “project 189″ decimated this team, but I do agree that the failure to go all in on that project left the Yankees in a situation of plugging holes to try and stay a post-season contender without doing the re-set that would challenge young players to produce and give the Yanks some financial advantages in re-building.

    You can’t avoid dong a complete makeover AND try to reduce payroll AND remain a championship caliber team…. those interests are in conflict.

  82. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:47 am

    But you cannot make the case that you are “decimating a team” by trying to hold the line at the first or second highest payroll in baseball.

    I don’t know what you mean by “well thought out plan” or foresight.” Those sound to me like generic phrases that are after the fact judgments. They know what they are doing; they have tried to get the most out of the good players in their farm system; Robertson, Betances, Nova, Warren, Phelps, Gardner, etc., and supplement them with good veterans to the extent they were available. Some work out and some don’t. Wells not good, Soriano and Ichiro were very good. The Ellsbury, Beltran, McCann and Tanaka signings were all superb; whether McCann is slow out of the gate his first two months or not.

    If I am critical of anything it’s the long term deals that get you players in their very late thirties and early forties. I don’t think they will ever do that again.

  83. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:50 am

    The Yanks have a house they paid 1.5 million for and they are trying to tell the realtor that they want 1.5 to sell it……even though the house beside theirs just sold for 600k.

    A team’s value isn’t what they paid for it…….it’s how good the players are……and if you’re team sucks with a 200 million dollar payroll then you either need to spend more money or you need to cut your losses and sell and get what you can and move on.

  84. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:50 am

    “How much of that money is paying dividends? You have over half of it that is either dead money or seriously underperforming.”

    I agree if we are talking about long term contracts like A-Rod, Sabathia, etc. That’s why they should not have signed Cano. I would do it for a Mike Trout in his mid twenties not a Cano in his thirties.

    Slumps after two months as in McCann and a previously good Soriano and injured Beltran I don’t out in that category. And the Tanaka and Ellsbury signings were stellar.

  85. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:51 am

    You could argue that decimated is a strong word……I think it’s appropriate. They did nothing for years to address the aging offense and then they tried to fix it all in one offseason after it all felll to pieces….

  86. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 11:54 am

    And the Tanaka and Ellsbury signings were stellar.
    ——-
    do tell, which part of 726 ops of the 25 AVV 7 year deal so far has garner the word ‘stellar’.

    really, are you just living in a cocoon?

  87. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 11:54 am

    For Project $189 to be successful you need at least 1/3 (probably more when you consider all the dead money already spent) of your roster comprised of cost controlled players you’ve developed or acquired via IFAs.

  88. blake June 4th, 2014 at 11:56 am

    “And the Tanaka and Ellsbury signings were stellar.”

    The Tanaka signing was stellar…..the Ellsbury signing was crazy.

  89. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    A team’s value isn’t what they paid for it…….it’s how good the players are……and if you’re team sucks with a 200 million dollar payroll then you either need to spend more money or you need to cut your losses and sell and get what you can and move on.
    ___________

    But not in a knee-jerk frenetic panic. You do not need to win it all every year and you can’t know how a player is going to perform in the future. You make the best decisions you can, keep trying to improve and play the games. Holding the line on Cano was very smart. So was what they did to try and improve as I said above. Tanaka, Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran? Come on, those were good deals. And you cannot or should not judge based upon a couple of months and an injury.

  90. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Yanks caught lightning in a bottle for a while with Soriano last year. He’s always had a horrible OBP and if he’s not hitting home runs, he has no value at all. Why do you think the Cubs – yes, the last-placed Cubs – wanted to get rid?

  91. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 11:59 am

    You do not need to win it all every year and you can’t know how a player is going to perform in the future.
    ——-
    pardon me, the NYY has the need to win every year. let’s set this straight.

    you can’t know how a player is going to perform in the future.
    ———
    most insightful comment indeed.

    I am here for you sweet, let’s entertain.

  92. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    There’s nothing being said in hindsight here… there’s documented comments on this blog dating back years that showcase strategies presented by posters that would have worked within their budget plans and also helped the team get younger and more competitive.

    The Yankees approach was simple: add no money to the books. They didn’t trade assets, they didn’t sign cost effective IFAs, they didn’t dump any salaries.

  93. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees didn’t or don’t have a plan. I don’t think that they didn’t spend a great deal of time formulating their plan. And in the last two off-seasons, I don’t think they didn’t try to put a winning team on the field.

    What I think the Yankees did was ignore the possibility of any of there plan(s) going awry. Everything had to work out as they wanted it. Or most everything (because nothing is ever snag-proof). And what happened to them is almost comical. They threw all their eggs in one basket, and the basket was flawed, but if it held out, they’d sell their eggs at market. The either misjudged or ignored the flaws, and almost every single thing that could have gone wrong did.

    Frankly, the odds of that happening as much as it has staggers my mind. Heck, I saw that they were hoping again, but I figured nothing could go wrong as badly as it did last season. Even if the same things happened, but over the course of the season, one player at a time, you can withstand and make some corrections. But when it’s early in the season and pretty much all at once, you can’t even address the issues in a meaningful way, not really.

  94. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Tanaka, Ellsbury, McCann and Beltran? Come on, those were good deals.
    —–
    please explain why you think those were good deals.

  95. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Heading back out into the city

    have a day all

  96. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    Yankee fans have to realize that you can’t just throw money around to succeed
    ——
    still your best line 500 words later. i would very much like to troll you today.

  97. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    The big mistakes were the long term contracts IMO. Those are very, very tough to see through and recover from. What followed, I have no major problem with they made some very good moves. Soriano as an example 58 games, 17 home runs, 50 RBI’s and an .850 OPS in 2013.

  98. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    “Holding the line on Cano was very smart. ”

    not if you turn around and give a lesser player an even worse contract……that’s the contradiction here. The Yankees held the line on one of the top 5 players in baseball and then turned around and gave the save AAV more or less to a guy who is 1) hurt a lot and 2) has one .800+ OPS season in their whole career.

    I liked the McCann deal…..I still think it’ll turn out ok even though I’ll admit I’m starting to worry a little……I liked the Beltran deal ok assuming that Choo didn’t want to come to NY……I loved the Tanaka signing……..but the Ellsbury deal was always nuts.

    The Yankees re-arranged the payrolll and pushed to the public that they spent half a billion dollars……even though in reality they cut payroll by 30 million from 2013 and left giant gaping holes in the roster that are ever apparent now.

    This isn’t hindsight either…..it was obvious all winter.

  99. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    “The Yankees approach was simple: add no money to the books. They didn’t trade assets, they didn’t sign cost effective IFAs, they didn’t dump any salaries.”

    they let it rot……plain and simple……they kept dressing guys up in pinstripes and telling us they were Yankees.

  100. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    189 hurt the yankees because that goal hand cuffed the offseason strategy for 3 years. Because Cashman either chose not to, or was not allowed to add payroll beyond 2013, the team was forced into either: incredibly payroll favorable trades (which were not roster favorable), signing scrapheap guys to fill in needs, and relying on a farm system which we know has been mostly a joke.

    Their 1 big move, trading Montero for Pineda has been a disaster for reasons given by many opposed to the trade, though it was by far the soundest implementation of their strategy and also the only one.

    So what happens is they let an aging roster languish for a few years, trying to plug the leaks with fill in guys on minor league deals and 1 year deals with incentives rather than actually try to fill a hole with a player that might help in more than 1 year. They passed on 189-saving IFA guys, which is the most mind boggling part of the whole deal, likely because they were too scared to take a risk to try to achieve their goal. Instead they only wanted to rely on veteran MLB guys even if they were clearly over the hill.

    Now true to Hal’s word, when it became obvious that there was no way they were going to be able to compete and hit 189 at the same time (and how could they, given the above summary of their moves?! They didn’t put anyone in 2014 except for Ichiro and that was a randy levine move! LOL) they decided to abandon it.

    So what you have here is a team that was built 1 way for 3 years trying to suddenly reverse course, and there was no way they were going to fill all their holes in 1 offseason. Had they actually taken some risks we might have been in a better shape now. If we had Cespedes in RF or LF, if we had Darvish alongside Tanaka, if we had Abreu backing up 1B and DHing, or god forbid they actually got an under the radar guy like Puig.

    But even if they didn’t take risks, their strategy of not pushing any contract to 2014 meant that the only people on the team when 2013 ended were guys with old contracts. We had no one in their prime, or close to it, manning a position of importance.

    We were very fortunate to be able to score Tanaka for his entire prime. Thank the baseball Gods for him. Now imagine if he had a better team built around him.

  101. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Doh Shame said what I said but in like 500 less words.

  102. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    If these are bridge years ahead, I am afraid it is a bridge too far. What is the destination? The Jagielo days? Couldn’t we bridge when we have some good prospects to insert in the lineup?

    Adding Morales this year to a one year contract in no way hurts the future. I suspect he, like Boras did with Drew, will sign for one year because Boras will contend it was the compensation that prevented longer and better contracts.

  103. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    This isn’t hindsight either…..it was obvious all winter.

    —————–

    This discussions has literally been raging for years.

    A lot of people on here had their finger on the pulse of how this would turn out. I don’t think the FO is full of stupid people. I just think they all have conflicting agendas that never aligned and the approach was simply: add nothing to the payroll.

    If you’re trying to create a more cost effective team, that’s not how you go about it. Not with an aging core of very costly players.

  104. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    Everyone read JF’s 12:06 post because it’s dead on the money.

  105. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:03 pm
    “Holding the line on Cano was very smart. ”

    “not if you turn around and give a lesser player an even worse contract……that’s the contradiction here. The Yankees held the line on one of the top 5 players in baseball and then turned around and gave the save AAV more or less to a guy who is 1) hurt a lot and 2) has one .800+ OPS season in their whole career.”
    __________________

    There is no contradiction and one player was not designed to replace the other. After your car gets wrecked or stolen, you get the best car you can afford. Ellsbury was a lifetime .295/.350 hitter and one of the best center-fielders and base stealers in all of baseball.

  106. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    “I don’t think the FO is full of stupid people. I just think they all have conflicting agendas that never aligned and the approach was simply: add nothing to the payroll.”

    yea I agree……I have no way of knowing this but I really think Hal made Cashman try to do something that was nearly impossible……does Cash deserve some of the blame…..sure …..but consider having to try to build a team…..and you have no farm system…..and you can’t sign anyone to a long term deal.

    Basically all you have is the players you already have……a farm system with no big league talent……and the ability to sign 1 year deals. Think how difficult it would be to try to run a team that way? Cashman had to do it for like 3 years……..the fruit from that era is coming now……and it’s rotten.

  107. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    They know what they are doing;
    ————

    They do??? They punted 3 seasons with a half baked plan only to reverse course because they saw their attendance and ratings drop.

  108. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    Good stuff, Jerk. That’s exactly why they are in this position.

    3 years of too many games of checkers and not nearly enough games of chess.

  109. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    “Ellsbury was a lifetime .295/.350 hitter and one of the best center-fielders and base stealers in all of baseball.”

    they already had a CFer…..maybe they should have spent it on the best 2B in baseball instead. They infield kinda sucks.

  110. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    After your car gets wrecked or stolen, you get the best car you can afford.
    ——–
    Yankee fans have to realize that you can’t just throw money around to succeed

    LOL.

  111. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Sweet, please, give us more. love your cogent takes and deductive reasoning.

  112. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    The huge glaring fallacy above is a typical after-the-fact, Monday morning quarterbacking and perhaps even more importantly, an unwillingness to factor in to that analysis who was available and at what cost. And, the reality that amateurs here have no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes in Yankee internal meetings, talks with other agents, GM’s, scouts, team doctors, etc.

  113. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    we don’t need more life boats……this is the Titanic….it’s unsinkable! There are no icebergs here and anyway this is the Titanic! It’s unsinkable! float along float along…..jack and rose do it in a car….float along…float along…….Iceberg!!!! oh no we don’t have enough lifeboats! and the only thing on the market is JJ Hardy!

  114. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    If there is one thing our comments are not, it is hindsight. We have been saying these things since the 2010 budgetary changes. It is not like we are some gurus of baseball. We fans could look at the ages of the players and realize they would be gone or past their prime in the near future.

    The Yankees chose to ignore it and hope for some miracle so Hal could cut costs and show how shrewd he is. Well, Hal, you have cost the team tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars in income.

    I discussed all last year how we needed to replace half the roster for 2014, but they did nothing during the year to fix it. and left gaping holes for all to see in the winter. I suppose we are improving since we may only need ten replacements next year.

    I just hope we can draft someone really cheap and under slot in our second round pick. Hal would be so happy.

  115. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    “The huge glaring fallacy above is a typical after-the-fact, Monday morning quarterbacking and perhaps even more importantly, an unwillingness to factor in to that analysis who was available and at what cost. And, the reality that amateurs here have no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes in Yankee internal meetings, talks with other agents, GM’s, scouts, team doctors, etc.”

    lame….read back….all this was said before the season even ended in 2013 and like all winter.

  116. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:15 pm
    “Ellsbury was a lifetime .295/.350 hitter and one of the best center-fielders and base stealers in all of baseball.”

    they already had a CFer…..maybe they should have spent it on the best 2B in baseball instead. They infield kinda sucks.
    ______________

    No. They got a better center-fielder and filled a need in left. And signing the best second baseman in baseball to a ten year deal into his forties was the best move the Yankees never made. I mean, how stupid would the team have to be after living through the A-Rod contract and others to repeat that mistake?

  117. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    The huge glaring fallacy above is a typical after-the-fact, Monday morning quarterbacking and perhaps even more importantly, an unwillingness to factor in to that analysis who was available and at what cost. And, the reality that amateurs here have no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes in Yankee internal meetings, talks with other agents, GM’s, scouts, team doctors, etc.

    i think this one deserves 15/hr from Levine.

  118. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    JF’s elaborations are on point.

    In 2010 when they traded for Grandy, I was under the impression money was not an issue and the team was going to be a juggernaut going forward. Why else would you trade Jackson and Kennedy for him? After 2010 ended and Grandy was a monster, some of us even thought about trading him (along with or instead of Gardner), as it was unlikely he’d repeat an MVP-type season that was an outlier for him. Another move we discussed at length was trading a very valuable Swisher, who was literally never considered as someone to retain. The fan base and FO seemed on the same page there, so he should have been moved for something of value – he would have given a nice return for his skill set and cost.

    And those are just a few minor things. Passing on a very cost effective Darvish when the system was set up to keep his AAV down was another miss. The same could be said for the talented Cuban players that were making noise. This was all stuff we talked about. And we all related it to the $189 plan because each item above would have helped them get to that goal and not be terrible and force them to take on even bigger money deals going forward that were counter productive.

  119. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 12:22 pm

    Monday morning quarterback, maybe, but it was done on the monday before the game not after.

  120. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    The fallacy, SweetSpot, is that fans can’t possibly know as much as a GM. It’s anything but Monday morning quarterback. The regulars on this blog have been pointing out the flaws in the Yanks’ “plan” (or lack of) for years…and the consequences.

    The chickens have come home to roost. Apologies, Stanley!

  121. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:21 pm
    “lame….read back….all this was said before the season even ended in 2013 and like all winter.”
    —————–
    I see. So you are making the case that a few amateur bloggers are smarter baseball people and know more about running a $3billion dollar behemoth sports and entertainment enterprise than the professionals who have decades of experience and numerous pennants and world championships and billions in profits under their belt do? Did the pros want to lose? Or are the bloggers are just smarter?

  122. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    Not sure how this is Monday morning quarterbacking when everything said here today is the same damn thing we’ve seen screaming for years.

  123. JimK June 4th, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    JF, If 189 was truly the Y’s goals they should have stayed the course, which they could have done by resigning Granderson, not signing Ellsbury of McCann, and make all of the other additional moves they made(sign Tanaka); they may have been under 189 even if they signed McCann.
    The team would not be any better or worse than the current team and with Granderson they still had a legitimate YS HR threat.

  124. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    Folks, I am very dubious hal will spend this year or this off-season. He may very well say spending doesn’t work. Of course, people who don’t know what they are doing think things like this.

    As said better by others, going on team building leave for three years might not be such a good plan expecially when the team was old three years ago.

    We don’t know who decided what, but I would be very surprised if this was not all Hal driven. Surely, a GM would want to add players. But, of course, this is the GM who said offense was not a concern for the past few years.

  125. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    “No. They got a better center-fielder and filled a need in left. And signing the best second baseman in baseball to a ten year deal into his forties was the best move the Yankees never made. I mean, how stupid would the team have to be after living through the A-Rod contract and others to repeat that mistake?”

    10/235 for Cano > 7/153 for Ellsbury.

  126. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    “I see. So you are making the case that a few amateur bloggers are smarter baseball people and know more about running a $3billion dollar behemoth sports and entertainment enterprise than the professionals who have decades of experience and numerous pennants and world championships and billions in profits under their belt do? Did the pros want to lose? Or are the bloggers are just smarter?”

    no….I’m sure Cashman knew all of this as well…..as Shame said they aren’t dummies……but Hal didn’t let them do anything about it. Hal is the antagonist of this story…….he messed everything up.

  127. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    In the past five years, the Yankees have three first place, two second and one third place finishes and one world championship. The sky isn’t falling folks.

  128. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    So you are making the case that a few amateur bloggers are smarter baseball people and know more about running a $3billion dollar behemoth sports and entertainment enterprise than the professionals who have decades of experience and numerous pennants and world championships and billions in profits under their belt do?

    —————-

    Straw man.

    The argument is they didn’t do enough money/personnel maneuvering to accommodate their new budget.

  129. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    We do know, in fact, what these players cost. They signed contracts which are public. Each of the Cubans, Darvish, Ryu etc. were in fact good values, particularly since they didn’t cost luxury cap money.

    They were too cheap or scared off by Igawa who the entire baseball world scratched their heads over when he was signed. Either way, stupid then and stupid now. Just as much of the board said when each became available.

  130. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    The days of George and no luxury tax are gone; parity is here. Expectations need to be commensurate with that reality in my opinion.

  131. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    “The days of George and no luxury tax are gone; parity is here. Expectations need to be commensurate with that reality in my opinion.”

    accept your fate people…..be ok watching mediocrity….pay the highest prices! Are you Hal?

  132. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    I think JF 12:06 is a pretty good summary of how the Yanks got to this place. Essentially, they implemented a 189 plan for their major league roster but they are so culturally risk-adverse that they never took the necessary steps to give 189 a real chance. Extending CC and not bidding on Darvish is a good example of this flaw. I think they also greatly miscalculated the availability of help from the farm.

    What I’ve never been able to understand is why they stayed “mid-market” in terms of Latin international spending four or so years ago at a time when teams like the Rangers rebuilt their farm system by spending twice as much on Latin amateurs as the Yanks did. That type of spending would not have effected 189. Same can be said about a couple low cost and questionable first round draft picks.

    The more pressing issue though is where to go from here? The Yanks need an integrated plan that involves divesting themselves of underperforming aged assets (Soriano), giving young players with promise actual playing time (which they are doing now), making strategic FA acquisitions (that means not old guys who clog up the roster in the near future) and continuing to invest heavily in the farm. Quite simply, the Yanks need to get Younger and Better. They need to create a roster that will become less and less dependent on past prime veterans (Soriano, Beltran, Ichiro, Jeter, Kuroda) and more dependent on players in or entering their prime (Tanaka, Solarte) or at least close to it (Ellsbury, Gardner).

    This team is not nearly as bad as some folks make it out to be. It’s actually pretty close to being very good. They just cannot panic and make some stupid moves that will continue the cycle of more and more old.

  133. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Parity folks. In 2013, 5 of the 10 playoff teams hadn’t made the postseason the year before and MLB hasn’t had a season when half of it’s post-season teams repeated since 2005.

  134. JimK June 4th, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    If you drive your car and only look in the rear view mirror, the probability that you will be involved in a catastrophic accident is 100%.

  135. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Sweetspot,

    Just to understand you, do you believe;

    1. This is a playoff team as currently constituted?
    2.They were correct in passing on Darvish, Puig, Ryu and each of the costly Cubans?
    3. We have cause for optimism going forward with the roster and minor league system?
    4. These issues were not discussed in detail on this board at the time they were occurring?

    Thanks for your clarification.

  136. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Expectations need to be commensurate with that reality in my opinion.”
    ———-
    “I do think we now have a championship-caliber team,” Steinbrenner said.

    I am appalled by you low standards, amateur blogger.

  137. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Luxury tax existed when George was here. It is entirely possible for a team as valuable as the Yankees to make the wrong moves. They don’t do things for no reason, and the reasons might be ok but the move itself wrong.

  138. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    “What I’ve never been able to understand is why they stayed “mid-market” in terms of Latin international spending four or so years ago at a time when teams like the Rangers rebuilt their farm system by spending twice as much on Latin amateurs as the Yanks did”

    partly because some of the guys would have taken big league deals to sign and Hal wouldn’t allow them to put money on the big league books. It’s why they didn’t sign Cespedes…..it’s why they didn’t sign Soler (who has a 1+ OPS in AA right now)……I mean it’s why they didn’t sign a lot of guys.

  139. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:34 pm
    “accept your fate people…..be ok watching mediocrity…”
    ____________

    Mediocrity? Three first place, two second and one third place finishes and one world championship in five years is mediocrity? Or is it spoiled, unrealistic Yankee fans who won’t accept the game has changed?

  140. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    “partly because some of the guys would have taken big league deals to sign and Hal wouldn’t allow them to put money on the big league books. It’s why they didn’t sign Cespedes…..it’s why they didn’t sign Soler (who has a 1+ OPS in AA right now)……I mean it’s why they didn’t sign a lot of guys.”

    ——

    No you missed my point. I’m not talking about that spending. That was major league stuff like you said, major league contracts. I’m talking about the 16 year olds like Sano. That kind of spending. Doing what they are going to do next month four years ago. Because that’s just what Texas did and it really rebuilt their system.

  141. JimK June 4th, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    I hate to beat a dead horse, but not signing Cano to a 10 year 240 million dollar deal at the age of 30 was a good move; the Y’s mistake, and this only a guess since I am not privy to FO negotiations, was after the 2011 season, instead of the Y’s exercising their options in 2012 and 2013, they did not lock up Cano at that time.

  142. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    blake what about the 5 percenters don’t you understand. Let’s clear that right up so you can finally forget the fiction that Robinson Cano was ever going to play for the Yankees again. No matter what they offered. Or how long.

  143. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Speaking of infield, wasn’t it a pleasure watching that part of last night’s game? Axisa mentioned in his column last night the Yanks probably played their best infield defense of the year last night. I was thinking the same thing. They actually made plays. So it was Sizemore at 3rd, Ryan as SS, Solarte at 2b and Tex at 1b. Hmmmm.

  144. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    The Yankees mantra is always play the old guys because they have a track record. Track records are fine if current. The track records they rely on are always based on 2008, it seems.

    How bad are things for next year? They will have Tanaka and what is left of CC as starters to go along with the fill in guys. At the very least one very good starter or two mid-level starters are absolutely necessary. We obvioulsy need a SS. We can hope Solarte can play second. AROD will likely be a shell of the shell we saw last year. We will need a closer or another end of the pen pitcher. We will need an outfielder with power. We will need quality back ups for 3b and 1B.

    Those are tall orders especially if Hal goes cheap becasue of AROD coming back on the books.

  145. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    “Folks, I am very dubious hal will spend this year or this off-season. He may very well say spending doesn’t work. Of course, people who don’t know what they are doing think things like this.”

    Gary Sanchez is gone guys….it’s a matter if time

  146. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    blake what about the 5 percenters don’t you understand. Let’s clear that right up so you can finally forget the fiction that Robinson Cano was ever going to play for the Yankees again. No matter what they offered. Or how long.”

    The yanks could have had him for 10/235. That’s fact……they passed

  147. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Or is it spoiled, unrealistic Yankee fans who won’t accept the game has changed?
    ——
    are you really that thick? how about NYY won’t accept the game has changed. changed in ways of procuring talents. change in ways of drafts. change in the ways cash influx to all teams limits the available pool via trades or FA (the sole playing ground of NYY). the lack of foresight that identify that all important issue of ‘just where am i going to get talents’ going forward?

  148. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    If this year’s team and last year’s team are not defined by you to be mediocre, please refer back to your dictionary. Statistically, in both years, they have been below average. We on’t complain about 2009. The problem is what they have not done since.

    But, Hal would like one more yes man added to his staff. You should apply, SS.

  149. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    “Those are tall orders especially if Hal goes cheap becasue of AROD coming back on the books.”

    —–

    It’s all extremely doable. One SS. One Starting Pitcher. And one $230MM payroll.

    And I think Arod is going to be a very pleasant surprise next year to a lot of folks. But not me. He is one of the greatest baseball players ever. 75-80% of that is going to look really good this time next year.

  150. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    I hate to beat a dead horse, but not signing Cano to a 10 year 240 million dollar deal at the age of 30 was a good move; ”

    It was a good move only in a certain context and this is where I see this stuff differently than some. If the yanks plan had been to rebuild and dip under 189…..keep all those draft picks and try to actually get younger and more efficient ….then yes letting Cano walk makes sense.

    But in the actual context where they spent a ton of money ……lost all their draft picks and gave Jacoby Ellsbury 153 million dollars……then not signing your best player who plays a position you need makes zero sense at all

  151. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:37 pm
    Expectations need to be commensurate with that reality in my opinion.”
    ———-
    “I do think we now have a championship-caliber team,” Steinbrenner said.

    ————–

    Yeah this is also an issue. No one expects the owners to say they’re okay with just being mediocre in a league full of parity (which, btw, is kinda funny if you think about it since all it means is we just need to be marginally better than almost every team in the league to be super competitive).

    But they keep rolling out the same trope. Can’t have it both ways.

  152. comet June 4th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Well many of us have seen this coming for a long time. We advocated trading Cano so as to get something for him.

    JF and Shame have nailed it!

    Dan why do you always need to pat yourself on the back? Ego problems? You know a lot about BB. The way things work, is that you let others acknowledge your wisdom. Oh and why the Big in front of your name. Sounds silly. I really like the point you make about the BP.

    Anyone heard how MTU is making out?

    Morning to Pruf, Shame, Doreen and JF. Also Blake.

    Fire

  153. blake June 4th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Context always matters…..you can’t say I’m not giving cano his money and then turn around and act like giving Jacoby 153 million is ok……that’s just not a consistent stance…..

  154. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    “Gary Sanchez is gone guys….it’s a matter if time”

    ——

    I’ve always been down with that. Just like I was down with trading Montero. It’s the return that is key.

    John Ryan is the keeper. Refs might be as well. Always trade your No. 1 prospect. Capitalize on hype.

  155. JimK June 4th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Blake, I agree that is why I believe signing Ellsbury and not resigning Granderson was a huge mistake.

  156. Cashmoney June 4th, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    later amateur bloggers. Sweet, save some of your eternal wisdom for morrow. It’s too good to wasted in a single day.

  157. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    Morning Comet. :)

  158. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    The team’s starting pitching has been as good since the injuries as before, I would say, except for lesser injuries. We thought they had some depth and, in fact, they did. We thought they had none on the offensvie side. They don’t.

    I think Sizemore can probably do what he did in past years. That is about replacement level. Somehwere, somehow in this lineup they need someone with power. Sizemore and his limited power and .700 OPS might be better than Roberts. Maybe.

    The fanbase is now becoming accepting of marginal players. We used to get criticized for wanting an allstar at every position. Now, we are looking for replacement level players at many.

    Watching the tight games lately, it always seemed the other teams would hit a homer where we needed three singles.

  159. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    10/235 was a joke. But the 5 percenter would have upped the ante if the Yankees agreed. He already had the no respect line going. Face it. He was going with a black manager. Open your eyes wide on this one. Cano was never going back to the Yankees. No matter what.

  160. blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    JimK says:
    June 4, 2014 at 12:56 pm
    Blake, I agree that is why I believe signing Ellsbury and not resigning Granderson was a huge mistake.

    Well I think letting Grandy go was the right move……I think they should have either went all in last winter to try and build a winner or they should have signed Tanaka…..kept Cano…..and kept their draft picks and tried to rebuild a little..

    If the Yanks had just signed Tanaka and Cano they’d be a better team than they are now…..they’d be cheaper and they would have the #18 overall pick in the coing draft

  161. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    So you are making the case that a few amateur bloggers are smarter baseball people and know more about running a $3billion dollar behemoth sports and entertainment enterprise than the professionals

    ————–

    Those same professionals devised a plan when the team itself wasn’t ready for it. It would be one thing if they didn’t have long term deals and a good farm system but that wasn’t the case.

  162. yankinvegas June 4th, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    The 189 thing hamstrung the organization for at least two off seasons. It was highly doubtful that it would ever happen and Selig made sure of it when he changed the posting system this past winter. I hate that man.
    Hal has no passion for the game. He is a numbers cruncher. His sister, Jennifer and her husband, Steve, love the game. Let them take over.
    I don’t really blame Cashman because I think he was hamstrung by the 189. However, he made awful deals in the afterglow of winning in 2009. Bringing back Vasquez? He totally underestimated Melky. And Granderson was a one way player who took up a lot of payroll.
    It really looks dar now because a long hot streak looks to be impossible because the starters, at least 3 of them are 5 and fly guys. Things should improve when Kelley returns to add another quality arm in the bullpen.
    Bring up Burawa and Ramirez to add two more power arms in the pen. What the hell do we need Daley, LeBlanc and Thornton for?
    Let’s get as many young guys as possible up here to see what we have. The farm system is totally messed up and that is why Cash should be let go.
    Offer Beane or Sabean a blank check and give them some time.
    The mantra of WS or nothing does not work anymore. We had a great run. It is time to reset and start again.

  163. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    I think next year is doable if they are willing to spend up to $230M. But, Hal won’t spend that this year, I doubt he will next. I hope I am wrong.

  164. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    I don’t think Sizemore is the answer to anything. But maybe Solarte can play some 2b. And last night showed you what a real SS can do. And Sizemore gave you a sense of what a competent glove at 3b might look like.

    A glimpse into next year?

    Like I said before, the infield is line for a major major upgrade next year. That will help this team immensely, offensively and defensively.

    But this year is a transition. Discover what works. What doesn’t. That’s what last night was about.

  165. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    H. And June 4th, 2014 at 12:43 pm
    blake what about the 5 percenters don’t you understand.

    —————

    Lol stop it just stop

  166. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:09 pm

    The sky isn’t falling folks.

    ———————

    They have gotten worse though not better.

  167. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    I guess you don’t understand the 5 percenters either. No matter. Cano was never coming back. Laugh all you want. Doesn’t bother me!

  168. comet June 4th, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Sorry I forgot to say good morning to AM – austinmac and AAO.

  169. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    I think next year is doable if they are willing to spend up to $230M. But, Hal won’t spend that this year, I doubt he will next. I hope I am wrong.

    ——

    I don’t think 230 is the right number this year. Not unless you can add Cliff Lee but that’s a whole other can of worms and potential trouble. I think 230 works next year though. Just not sure Hal will go there. But I hope so because I think the value will be out there if it’s spent right.

  170. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Hey what’s up comet

  171. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    H. And June 4th, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    —————

    No I understand you read an article in the Daily News two months ago about Cano’s agent wearing a 5 percent chain and you’re here under a different handle stirring up the same thing you tried to do months ago.

  172. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    Mariano on Francesa talking about his book right now.

  173. comet June 4th, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Hey AAO. I’ve given up on this years team. Think CC, Tex and McCann are money under the bridge. What is new with you?

  174. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Not possible. Two months ago I was in Beirut Lebanon.

  175. Hankflorida June 4th, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    It wasn’t that Cashman tried to create a balanced team that was wrong, it was the players he chose to form a unit. Banjo hitters can play small ball and hit with RISP, but this group has not either not been consistent or hit in bad luck in these areas. Last night, Text was the only Yankee who would have hit that fastball out, and warning track power as Ellsbury showed usually finds the opponents glove, and Solarte’s line drive did not find the hole with a runner on third.

  176. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    Lets face it. The Yanks are never going to field a young team. But they need to be young or younger, in the right places.

    Plenty of championship teams in history had slow and bad fielders at the corners. 1b, 3b, LF, RF. Hell, the Yanks won championships with Yogi in the OF. As long as the corners can hit it’s ok. But you need to be young and good at CF, SS, 2b and catcher. And the Yanks stand to be much better in that regard next year. Arod will not be asked to move that much at 3b next year. He’ll just have to hit. Put a good SS next to him and left side will improve dramatically offensively and defensively.

    We just have to get past this year.

  177. alabamayankee June 4th, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    I just love Joe’s “you’ve gotta just keep running them out there” philosophy. He’s supposed to be reasonably intelligent, yet he keeps up this loyalty nonsense to the detriment of the team. I know, I know, the Yankee management’s overall philosophy is that they’re trying to catch lightning in a bottle. The end result is they usually catch a turd in that bottle. Has anyone figured out how many losers they have signed as free agents over the last several years?

  178. blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Watching the braves is a lot like watching the Yankees…..they usually pitch ok but they can’t hit. The difference is that most of them are young and might get better……rather than as on the Yankees where they might get worse or break a hip

  179. yankeepankee June 4th, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Stop the guess work.
    Lohud Chad should just ask a few scouts if they think Soriano is done.
    Then we can pile on.
    Cashy and his scouts and minors generals have to go.
    Quintana anyone? That’s a disgrace. A low-money No 2 lefty!!
    Then arm after arm with setbacks or not developed properly and made into middle relievers. No infield prospects, even for backup! Maybe Resfy later but he’s not good on D.
    Time to go Cashy. I like Billy Beane. Any other GM ideas?
    Thanks.

  180. yankeepankee June 4th, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    And no way should A-Rod – at 39 – be on the field next year.
    Either hope the feds nail him for obstruction or they buy him out.
    Way past time to move on.

  181. blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    Billy Beane isn’t leaving Oakland…..haven’t y’all seen the movie? Brad Pitt rides around and listens to his daughter sing that song

  182. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    comet June 4th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
    Hey AAO. I’ve given up on this years team. Think CC, Tex and McCann are money under the bridge. What is new with you?

    ——————-

    Haven’t given up yet. Hoping they can get on a streak and at least make the post season. If not it’s going to be a long yr.

  183. blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    They should call up all the cards people and double their money to come

  184. blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    I think if I could pick any GM it would probably be Mozeliak…..he just seems to be the right mix of what the Yanks need. I’m afraid Friedman is too outside the box for NY…..I kinda think he might backfire. Daniels seems like a jerk…..Mozeliak is the guy. Call and offer him whatever he wants to come work with cash and try to fix this mess.

  185. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Keep Granderson? Has anyone been watching him play for the Mets? He has been an unmitigated disaster.

    And, believe it or not, they had an even worse loss than we did last night.

  186. Mottsx June 4th, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    blake June 4th, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    They should call up all the cards people and double their money to come
    ========

    and the Rays or A’s coaches. Michael Kay was praising Chili Davis last night I think he might give him his daughter.

  187. alabamayankee June 4th, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    At least Granderson looks graceful when he swings and misses. Soriano just looks dumb.

  188. yankeepankee June 4th, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    If they miss this year, Hal has to make a change from GM on down. Joe G can stay. Not his fault.
    New GM, buy best scouts. With International draft coming, sharp scouts are the best investments. And Yanks lose top picks with all their FA signings. Gotta get gems below.
    Drew Hutchison was drafted in the 15th round by Toronto. Looked good pumping those 94 mph fastballs and nasty curve last night. He’d be our No. 2 with a bullet.
    Who’d we get in 15th round that year and what McDonald’s is he working at?

  189. SweetSpot June 4th, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    Soriano is just in a slump.

    In 2012 and 2013 Soriano hit (66) home runs had (209) RBI’s and an OPS average of .806

  190. Tyler June 4th, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    People in STL aren’t too thrilled with Mozeliak at the moment.

  191. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    Apart from Ellsbury, and maybe Tex and Jeter, exactly who on this team has a hot spell? Surely you need to have a had a streak before going into slump?

  192. Tyler June 4th, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Beltran

  193. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    “Apart from Ellsbury, and maybe Tex and Jeter, exactly who on this team has a hot spell? Surely you need to have a had a streak before going into slump?”

    their best player…..SOLARTE!

  194. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    There are 2 teams in the AL who have scored fewer runs than the Yankees. The Rays and the Astros

  195. bruceb June 4th, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Beltran? I must have missed it…either that or it was very short.

    I didn’t include Solarte. He wasn’t even supposed to be on the team.

  196. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Beltran was actually really good until he hit that wall in Tampa…he had an OPS over .900 until April 20

  197. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Too much risk, too little reward for crashing into things. It may have ruined Beltran’s season.

    It’s something Bryce Harper better learn if he wants to enjoy a long career. Griffey Jr might have been the best of all time if he had backed away a little more often.

  198. mick June 4th, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Hey AAO. I’ve given up on this years team.
    =============
    Now, that’s the spirit…

  199. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Soriano is old. He can also be bad because of his approach. Its more likely he is finished as a full time player than he is ‘just in a slump’. Maybe he has a season like 09 or 2011 where he is just bad.

    Players have to fade away eventually, most don’t go out on top.

  200. Pat M. June 4th, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    When I was back in The City last month for the stickball event, I was talking to a player from another team who moved from NYC to Denver. He was telling me how much he missed the NY radio sports talk vibe regarding the Yanks. I told him about The LoHud which I think is quite similar only in a written format. I explained to him about all the kitchen GM’s and entertainment that comes with it. I received an e-mail from him this morning and his comments were on the humorous side of life…. Dude played ball with a very young David Justice in Richmond back in the 80′s and naturally there were some great tales he shared.

  201. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    I was not a fan of the Soriano trade last season simply because the front office missed an opportunity to sell their assets and get some value in return instead of letting them walk for jack and sh!t.

  202. UnKnown June 4th, 2014 at 2:38 pm

    Sori has only been slumping the WHOLE season. I must say that is one impressive slump. :roll:

    If one doesnt hit for 162 games is that a slump. Probably is… LMAO

  203. Mottsx June 4th, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Soriano looks like Vernon Wells out there. Aka Dunzo

  204. Tyler June 4th, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 2:37 pm
    I was not a fan of the Soriano trade last season simply because the front office missed an opportunity to sell their assets and get some value in return instead of letting them walk for jack and sh!t.
    ————————————————————–

    I agree. It was pretty obvious that the team wasn’t going to compete at that point without some massive upgrades (and that wasn’t going to be A-Rod). They are just in the weird position of trying to not look like they are just giving up on Rivera and Jeter. But becoming sellers would have been a good move.

  205. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    I don’t doubt that Soriano has maybe two two-week knot stretches somewhere in him.

    But I usually define a slump as a decrease in productivity. He hasn’t been productive. Hence, no slump.

  206. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    GF,

    I disagree. At the trade deadline last year, they did have a fair shot at a wild card spot. It took Kuroda going totally south and the bullpen to finally implode and Gardner to go down to kill any hope at all.

    But Soriano and ARod energized that team, and I think if Kuroda had been able to do even 50% better at that point, it makes a difference. Kuroda was having a Cy Young season till just past the trade deadline.

    You don’t sell if there’s a chance to be in the post-season.

  207. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    “Too much risk, too little reward for crashing into things. It may have ruined Beltran’s season.

    It’s something Bryce Harper better learn if he wants to enjoy a long career. Griffey Jr might have been the best of all time if he had backed away a little more often.”

    agreed…..there needs to be a distinction between playing hard and playing stupid.

  208. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    ***Make that two two-week HOT stretches.

    It’s right now that he’s having knot stretches – giving us knots in our stomachs; K-not hitting.

    ;)

  209. Tar June 4th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    For a ” bunch of amateurs” there were a lot of really good posts from a bunch of different posters today. Good stuff. JF really did nail it at 12:06.

    Oh and CMoney you had me rolling. :D

  210. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    Indeed. They should have been sellers last season.

    And before anyone claims once again that this is 20/20 hindsight, I urge them to read the LoHud archives for June and July of last year.

    There were a number of us SCREAMING from the rafters to sell sell sell. There was no way this team was going to be a legitimate contender for a playoff spot.

    If my memory serves me, that decision might’ve been the last draw for Rich in NJ because I don’t recall seeing him since.

  211. Pat M. June 4th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Senior Franco. Sometime in August 2012, myself and Rich in NJ had comments about how regardless of what was to happen in October 2012, The Yanks should move Granderson, Cano and Hughes because it was apparent that the club wasn’t going to re-ink them . I still think that the decision not to trade them and get a few nice pieces in return will hurt them for years to come. In fact it’ll haunt them along with not signing Soler and Cespedes. Also in closing , October 2012 was the last chance they had to win it all as Texas , The Angels, Tampa were all gone from the Postseason. At that time the window was closing fast on them, but then again that window was slammed shut when an ankle went snap.

  212. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Lots of people poked fun at me for not wanting to trade Corey Black for Soriano last year……and as I tried to explain at the time it really wasn’t about Black vs Soriano…..it was about buying when they should have been selling. It was about giving away a guy that could one day become a controllable and cheap asset for a shot in the dark at competing in 2013.

    Now sometimes I don’t mind that…..it depends on where you are in the season and how likely it is that the moves will help you contend. Last year I think it was pretty clear the Yanks werent’ a playoff team and Soriano wasn’t going to change that…….he played as well as he could possibly play after the trade and it still didn’t change it.

    The Cubs have coverted Black to a starter BTW it looks like…..he’s started 10 games for their AA club with a 3.44 era and 1.2 WHIP.

  213. Tar June 4th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    I miss Rich, hope everything is cool with him.

  214. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    GF,

    I disagree. At the trade deadline last year, they did have a fair shot at a wild card spot. It took Kuroda going totally south and the bullpen to finally implode and Gardner to go down to kill any hope at all.

    But Soriano and ARod energized that team, and I think if Kuroda had been able to do even 50% better at that point, it makes a difference. Kuroda was having a Cy Young season till just past the trade deadline.

    You don’t sell if there’s a chance to be in the post-season.

    —-

    It’s true they did have a mathematical chance at a postseason berth.

    But when you compare this team and the teams they had to chase and beat for that last playoff spot, I didn’t have any faith they could turn things around.

  215. blake June 4th, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    The Yankees have made no move whatsoever in the recent history to suggest they are actually trying to get younger……they won’t trade off expiring contracts….they didn’t spend on young interantational top talent for years……they don’t covet draft picks…….I mean how are they gonna rebuild?

    What if Texas would have given them Odor for Cano last year? Given that they already had Profar, and Andrus, and Beltre you never know……

  216. Tar June 4th, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    They could have gotten a decent haul for Cano…. To not trade him and then start the negotiation to resign him by saying “he’s all about the money” is just awful planning.

  217. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    AND I argued against selling at the deadline with the Yanks only 3 1/2 out of the Wild Card. I don’t believe the Yanks ever should or would become sellers unless they are clearly out of it.

    Keep in mind other “sellers” didnt have much success. There was very little movement

  218. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Pat M. June 4th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Senior Franco. Sometime in August 2012, myself and Rich in NJ had comments about how regardless of what was to happen in October 2012, The Yanks should move Granderson, Cano and Hughes because it was apparent that the club wasn’t going to re-ink them . I still think that the decision not to trade them and get a few nice pieces in return will hurt them for years to come. In fact it’ll haunt them along with not signing Soler and Cespedes. Also in closing , October 2012 was the last chance they had to win it all as Texas , The Angels, Tampa were all gone from the Postseason. At that time the window was closing fast on them, but then again that window was slammed shut when an ankle went snap.

    —-

    I remember those discussions during the winter of 2012. And I agree, the decision to keep them instead of trading them has set them back for the next few years.

    I can’t understand for the life of me why they weren’t more aggressive in the IFA market before Tanaka.

    When you suck at drafting and developing your own guys then you have to get those kinds of players from somewhere if you want to stay relevant.

    The inability to build a solid young core is the primary reason they are in this mess.

  219. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    The Yanks have never been known for building a solid young core. It’s not what they have been about. Even the Jeter/Mo core was an accident. It seems they are trying to build one at this late date but we shall see. New ownership might be the answer with unlimited spending as it once was seems to be the NY answer.

  220. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Cano had no intention to come back to NY.
    The Yanks , for whatever reason, didn’t seem to want him back.
    End of story.

  221. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    Blake,

    At the rate we are going I think we can overtake the Rays and Astros. I think the Astros are going to overtake us in a yeaer or two on the field. They have some great young players. Most of them were available when we drafted. Oppenheimer invented the nuclear bomb and also blew up our farm system.

  222. Tar June 4th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    Why would Cano have no intention of coming back to the Yankees? Was this something you read about in Beirut?

    But we do agree that the Yankees had no intention of resigning him hence it was dumb to not trade him.

  223. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Mick,

    I don’t disagree that that was the Cano story. But, why lose him for essentially nothing? That’s the part I don’t get. The same holds true for Hughes, Granderson and Swisher. They also knew none of them would come back.

    They weren’t buyers last year and they couldn’t be perceived as sellers. So they did nothing helpful in the long term.

  224. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    I can’t understand for the life of me why they weren’t more aggressive in the IFA market before Tanaka.

    —————-

    One word Igawa. Cashman basically stated that move caused them to reevaluate how they go about signing IFAs like Darvish and Cespedes.

  225. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    GF -

    I think that’s really the dividing line in the opinions here. If a person believed that there was no way for them to get to the post-season, or no way to get past the one-and-done WC, then it would naturally seem the best course of action would be to forget this season and look toward the future.

    While I’m on the other side of the divide, I acknowledge that almost everyone on your side of the divide had passion and logic about where they were coming from; it wasn’t an unreasonable position to take.

    Perhaps my side of the divide was weighted more toward the hopeful than the rational, but there was some rationale there, too. The team was overachieving but there was a drive in that team, and I for one thought that with Nova doing as well as he was, and Soriano bringing some energy and a hot bat, and even ARod contributing even a little, I did think they’d make it. And I subscribe to the “once you get there, anything can happen” line of thinking. They’d been favorites and tanked; I thought it was just as possible to be underdogs and prevail.

    Also, and this isn’t a statement that’s rooted in reason, but when was the last time the Yankees were sellers? It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have been simply based on recent history, but it does point to a line of thinking that is counterintuitive for them. Their plan of action was always to assess at the TD, and figure out what they needed to get them to the promised land. Because of where the team was sitting at the TD, this was the logical thing for them to do at time. And whether or not they had an inkling that Cano would be gone after the season, they were sure as heck gonna have him around to try to get them to the playoffs. (and really, if they had won, perhaps the entire off-season goes just a bit differently).

    If/Then.

    But all that being said, even while trying to understand the Yankees’ rationale in the prior off-seasons with respect to the 189, and all the Cubans and Darvish, and other players they passed it, I was always disappointed they weren’t heavily in the mix for any of those players. And in hindsight, I’m a little ticked off that they gave it just enough effort so they could say they tried but they had a price limit and it went over.

  226. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    Unlimited spending doesn’t help much if you aren’t spending it WISELY.

    Spending $150M on Tanaka during his prime years was wise. Spending $150M on Ellsbury was not.

    Same thing when they decided to spend $12M on Youkilis a year ago and then sign Ichiro for $12M for another 2 years.

  227. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    It seems they are trying to build one at this late date

    ——————-

    They are??

  228. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:16 pm

    I don’t disagree that that was the Cano story. But, why lose him for essentially nothing? That’s the part I don’t get. The same holds true for Hughes, Granderson and Swisher. They also knew none of them would come back.
    ===================
    Mac
    What were they going to get back?
    You don’t see much of that type of trade action these days.
    It’s usually a rental.

  229. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    I don’t agree that the Yankees had no intention of signing Cano. They offered him what they offered him. If no other team offers the 10 years, I believe Cano signs with the Yankees. The Yankees just did not want him at ANY cost.

  230. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    They are??
    ========
    Don’t they have a minor league system?

  231. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    Spending $150M on Ellsbury was not.
    ==========
    That remains to be seen.
    They also hurt Boston in the process.

  232. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    The Yanks have done this before. Making a token offer when they don’t want someone back.

  233. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    The Yanks have never been known for building a solid young core. It’s not what they have been about. Even the Jeter/Mo core was an accident. It seems they are trying to build one at this late date but we shall see. New ownership might be the answer with unlimited spending as it once was seems to be the NY answer.

    —-

    Guess what? It’s 2014 and the game has evolved quite a bit the last 10 years.

    You can’t build a consistent winner through free agency anymore. Those guys don’t become available like they did when George ruled.

    It is essential that they start building a young core or they won’t be sniffing the postseason again for a long time.

  234. blake June 4th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    At the rate we are going I think we can overtake the Rays and Astros. I think the Astros are going to overtake us in a yeaer or two on the field. They have some great young players. Most of them were available when we drafted. Oppenheimer invented the nuclear bomb and also blew up our farm system.”

    maybe we can get a high draft pick next year……I can see them ending up with the 11th pick and losing it to sign JJ hardy

  235. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    With or without Cano they have to rebuild this team. He was not the answer by himself.

  236. blake June 4th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    “I don’t agree that the Yankees had no intention of signing Cano. They offered him what they offered him. If no other team offers the 10 years, I believe Cano signs with the Yankees. The Yankees just did not want him at ANY cost.”

    if the Yankees knew they were going to hold the line at 175 for Cano then they should have traded him last July……because as I said at the time…..they were never keeping him for under 200 million.

  237. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    It is essential that they start building a young core or they won’t be sniffing the postseason again for a long time.
    ============
    It does seem like they are trying and have quite a few good prospects.
    People want to win now but don’t have the patience to wait for their youth down below.

  238. blake June 4th, 2014 at 3:22 pm

    As everyone knew……the season without Stephen Drew was always lost :)

  239. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    I don’t think it’s a difference between optimism and pessimism or realism.

    I believe a season ticket, a sponsorship, a luxury suite is a two-way commitment and you have to honor that commitment by fighting for post-season play throughout the season. To bail with two months to go and only 3 1/2 games out is a breach of trust in my view.

    Now IF they fall 10+ games out, then I believe a strategic sell off is reasonable and prudent. It’s all a matter of where we choose to draw the line(s).

    Last year rather than bail on the season, they added Soriano who was outstanding. If Kuroda had continued to pitch well they would have had a real shot at post-season play… and to me THAT’S the goal.

  240. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    Spending $150M on Ellsbury was not.
    ==========
    That remains to be seen.
    They also hurt Boston in the process.

    —–

    Spending $150M in order to hurt Boston is illogical and a waste of resources.

    You can argue that’s an additional perk to signing Ellsbury, but it should never be a primary reason.

  241. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:17 pm
    They are??
    ========
    Don’t they have a minor league system?
    ————-

    Yea but it isn’t a good one.

  242. 86w183 June 4th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Heading out to NYC — Gonna see them tape Letterman and then enjoy dinner at Bryant Park.

    That doesn’t suck

    Have a day, seeya in the morning

  243. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    It does seem like they are trying and have quite a few good prospects.
    People want to win now but don’t have the patience to wait for their youth down below.

    —————-

    SMH ppl have been waiting on the farm since 05. This isn’t a case of a lack of patience. Next season will be 10 yrs since Cashman gained control.

  244. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:20 pm
    With or without Cano they have to rebuild this team

    —————

    They have been “rebuilding for yrs” There has to be a payoff at some point.

  245. NYY fan in NH June 4th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    When I think of this years team with all the money they spent. I see a worse team than last year. The plus is that Tanaka is a cornerstone ace of the staff, but outside of that you have possibly Betances being the closer. It’s time to let some kids play. These veterans can’t hit a lick and patching holes with guys like Soriano just make this situation worse. Really bad times in Yankee land right now!

  246. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Cano was not coming back to the Yankees. His 5 percenter agent made sure of hat. You know the one that used to wear the NY hat? Yeah that one. The one that plays concerts in Seattle not in the Bronx? Yeah that one. Keep your eyes shut tight if it makes you feel better.

  247. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    I can see them ending up with the 11th pick and losing it to sign JJ hardy

    ————–

    What they really should do this off season is determine who the best INFer is at either 3B, SS or 2B and sign them.

  248. H. And June 4th, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    How does Bean do it but the Yankees should have to pay all kinds of money? I guess that’s what you say when you can’t think of anything else. It’s all about money.

  249. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    Enjoy the city, 86!! I’m trapped in an office! Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

  250. sammiejohnson June 4th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    wallace matthews ?@ESPNNYYankees 1m
    There’s been a Jose Ramirez sighting in the clubhouse. No word yet on roster moves

  251. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    86w183

    My post had more to do with how we here divided.

    I agree that the Yankees have the business reasons you stated.

    They were never going to sell at the TD if the numbers at the time gave them even a ghost of a chance.

  252. austinmac June 4th, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Mick,

    I don’t pretend to know what they would get back, but considering all the money these guys were paid it seems to me there would have been a good market.

  253. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Oh, enjoy your evening 86w183!

  254. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    wallace matthews ?@ESPNNYYankees 1m
    There’s been a Jose Ramirez sighting in the clubhouse. No word yet on roster moves

    ————–

    I like it.

    Probably Ace leaving

  255. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    They were never going to sell at the TD if the numbers at the time gave them even a ghost of a chance.

    ————–

    And that trend will continue this year… the question becomes: at what cost?

    They can’t change their business model and not change how they approach it all at the same time. If they want to be better and cheaper and more efficient, they have to sell guys and take a risk. This team is also going to remain within 2-5 games of the second WC because every team is mostly a .500 club.

    All that does is make me mad though.. You don’t even need to be THAT MUCH better in order to really compete in this new MLB that’s full of parity. Even if they excelled at one thing, they’d probably be at the top of the division right now.

  256. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    Yea but it isn’t a good one.
    ===============
    How do you know what it will produce?

  257. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    The Yanks were in it last year till Gardner got hurt in Baltimore in Sept.
    They collapsed from there.

  258. sammiejohnson June 4th, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    “Probably Ace leaving”

    Read a tweat earlier that said it looked like he was packing up after last night’s game. Has to be gone.

  259. Giuseppe Franco June 4th, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    Doreen,

    That’s a perfectly rational argument.

    It’s true we are not used to seeing a Yankees team sell at the TD rather than go for the gold.

    But they are going through a transition period whether they like it or not and they haven’t put themselves in a good position to achieve their goals after their icons have retired. They can’t keep selling their past and need to move on and build for the future.

    I think last season in particular was the right time to sell because they did have assets who weren’t likely to return and I believe it was a missed opportunity to get started on that transition period build for the future.

    They can’t operate the organization in the same manner they did 20 years ago because the game has evolved and they’ve become far too reactive instead of proactive.

  260. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    If Ace leaves for JRam, who leaves for Pepe LaGrand?

  261. blake June 4th, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    “What they really should do this off season is determine who the best INFer is at either 3B, SS or 2B and sign them.”

    they need a SS first and foremost…..Solarte hopefully can play either 2b or 3b but they need a SS. Drew on a 3 year deal might be their best option…….then call the Rockies every day and try to trade for Tulo.

    I don’t really want Hanley……last year was an outlier and he’s gonna be overpaid.

    JJ Hardy is hitting .300 but he’s not hit a homer yet……that’s really weird…..whats up with that.

  262. J. Alfred Prufrock June 4th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    I don’t want to see Jo-Ram going down this road but Betances seriously needs someone to spell him from
    Being the “it” man every other night. He’s already being over-used and it’s high time they give him back his change up.

  263. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    or was it guy leblanc?

  264. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:39 pm
    Yea but it isn’t a good one.
    ===============
    How do you know what it will produce?

    —————–

    Based on their track record they have been at this for 9 yrs mick. It doesn’t start 2 yrs ago.

  265. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    AAO

    I can name 10 prospects that could be successful at the major league level, their time is coming.

  266. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    i guess putting Pineda on the 60 day dl opens a roster spot for jram.
    swapping ace for legrand could be the other move.

  267. sammiejohnson June 4th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    If Ace leaves for JRam, who leaves for Pepe LaGrand?

    ____________________________

    JRam is already on the 40 man. “Pepe LaGrand” doesn’t have to go on the 25 man, just the 40 man. If they DFA Ace, bring up JRam, send “Pepe” to SWB it works.

  268. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    they need a SS first and foremost….

    ————–

    If it’s up to me, I agree in general and absolutely to Tulo. I know people don’t love Andrus’ deal but I’d take that, too, if possible. His OPS is kinda blah, but he brings the awesome D and is about to really hit his prime. Everyone seems to think players will turn into better hitters in NYS when we sign other way worse guys…

  269. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Pepe is a lefty and they need to phase out thornton, i say they keep him.

  270. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Unfortunately lefties hit .319 .372 .544 .916 off Leblanc, don’t think he is anything other than some garbage time reliever.

  271. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    wallace matthews ?@ESPNNYYankees 1m
    There’s been a Jose Ramirez sighting in the clubhouse. No word yet on roster moves

    ——

    Yes. The relief pitcher audition I’ve talked about is about to begin. Still need to a couple more candidates over the course of this season to make it a good competition but this is a start.

    Out with the old (Aceves). In with new. Transition Year. Let the kids play!

    Now if we can only get rid of Soriano and give Almonte a real shot.

  272. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    kelley and beltran will be here by the weekend, a rp will go maybe daly but who goes for beltran?

  273. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Unfortunately lefties hit .319 .372 .544 .916 off Leblanc, don’t think he is anything other than some garbage time reliever.

    —–

    I mentioned his splits yesterday. I don’t get it. Vendette is a better option. Least he gets lefties out.

  274. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    @SBNationMLB The starting pitching market is starting to heat up as the trade deadline approaches, writes @ChrisCotillo http://sbn.to/1kGzCln

  275. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    I can name 10 prospects that could be successful at the major league level, their time is coming.

    ————–

    Which organization do they play for..?

  276. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    girardi loves switchers…seems like venditti is a natural.

  277. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    haha shame

  278. Doreen June 4th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    GF -

    I could have understood selling Granderson, but Swisher was the year before, wasn’t he? And they did actually get to the playoffs in 2012. I do think the Yankees hoped they could sign Cano, but I also believe they did know that there was a chance they would not be able to (based on their own constraints).

    It’s such a nebulous area. How do you sell players who are getting you to the playoff? It’s easier said than done to cut ties early with players you know you aren’t going to sign, but who are currently quite useful.

    I believe they have to be out of it completely by the trade deadline, and I fear Shame is right, that this year will be similar to last year at the TD, unless one of these AL East teams takes off right now before the Yankees even have a hope of regaining some semblance of something.

    Also, as I recall, last year there were a lot of teams still in it, so the return on “rental” players may not have been so great, and we’d have been talking now about how they sold stars and got sawdust in return. Maybe.

    Who knows????? This stuff makes me feel like I’m running in circles. LOL

  279. yankinvegas June 4th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    I watch the games. I will always watch the games. The love of the New York Yankees is in my blood. I am 58 years old and losses like Sunday and yesterday still piss me off royally. My wife knows to stay away from me for at least a couple of hours.
    This team, as presently constituted, sucks. Yes there have been a lot of injuries but @ 200+ million they should not be a death knell.
    It is time for Cashman to go. 16 years is a long time. Offer Billy Beane a blank check and the money to work with that he has never had in Oakland.
    It will take time. But it can be done.

  280. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    “they need a SS first and foremost…..Solarte hopefully can play either 2b or 3b but they need a SS. Drew on a 3 year deal might be their best option…….then call the Rockies every day and try to trade for Tulo”

    —-

    Now we’re making some sense. This is exactly what the plan should be. Solarte is cover for 2b or 3rd. But the key acquisition needs to be SS. Depending on how Drew looks this year, he could be an option. And Tulo should always be the first choice. But I don’t know what he’d cost now after the kind of year he’s putting. Prob impossible for Rockies to trade him.

  281. mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Offer Billy Beane a blank check and the money to work with that he has never had in Oakland.
    ====================
    That is not in Hal’s DNA.

  282. blake June 4th, 2014 at 3:59 pm

    JF,

    why hasn’t Hardy hit a homer yet? Weird…..

    “If it’s up to me, I agree in general and absolutely to Tulo. I know people don’t love Andrus’ deal but I’d take that, too, if possible. His OPS is kinda blah, but he brings the awesome D and is about to really hit his prime.”

    yea I still think there is more in there with Elvis too…..but he’s really not hitting again this year so far…..last year he had a much better 2nd half but the bat has to come back for him to be worth the money. I mean…..the ability is in there….he’s shown it before……but they can get a .600 OPS and great D out of Brendan Ryan….

  283. mick June 4th, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    Is McCann hurt?

  284. Wave Your Hat June 4th, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    The Yanks don’t have enough to get Tulo. I fear they will go for Hanley Ramirez, after all he will be the right age for them. But at least in the coming off season they can at last begin to tackle the SS problem.

  285. mick June 4th, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    Gardner 7, Jeter 6, Ellsburu 8, teixeira 3, McCann DH, solarte 5, Roberts 4, Suzuki 9, Murphy 2, nuno p #yankees

  286. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    day game tomorrow so McCann can’t catch tonight and tomorrow I guess. With Tanaka going tomorrow Girardi will want to catch McCann then.

  287. blake June 4th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Tulo is the best player in baseball when he’s right…..he’s not always right but when he is nobody is better overall. I don’t know if the Rockies will trade him though until he starts to decline……If I were them that’s what Id’ probably do……I’d hold until he’s about 32 and then try to trade him before he starts to decline.

  288. bigdan22 June 4th, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    It’s funny how some prospects are blessed and some are not. Now Almonte had 10 times the ST Murphy had but when there was a clear opening to play him the Yanks would not. But it’s clear now the Yanks love Murphy and want to do what they can to give him playing time. Hey, I got no problem with that. Let the kids play. But what did Almonte do that was so wrong?

  289. Against All Odds June 4th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    mick June 4th, 2014 at 3:46 pm
    AAO

    I can name 10 prospects that could be successful at the major league level, their time is coming.

    ———————-

    What separates them from the previous ten?

  290. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Here is the appeal regarding Andrus as far as I can tell: not a lot of teams can absorb the money so in theory he’d cost less in prospects, it locks up our up the middle crew for the foreseeable future with McCann/Murphy, Andrus, Solarte (I’m starting to buy in.. I’m tempering expectations but I’m still starting to buy in) and Ellsbury. Of course, I’d rather just trade everything for Tulo, but I dunno that it happens. He does have the cost factor which, like Andrus, could mitigate the prospect factor…. I’m not sure.

    Hardy wouldn’t be terrible but my fear is that his AAV will actually be pretty steep and I think you’re stuck with him for like 6 years at least in this market and he’s already like 31 or 32. He’s clearly going to be the best SS available. They’re not growing on trees. Teams are going to be all over him.

  291. Shame Spencer June 4th, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Bah! :arrow:

  292. JimK June 4th, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    Billy Beane had the luxury of enduring 5 losing seasons(2007-2011), without worrying about his job security. Does anyone believe the Y’s FO would tolerate 5 losing seasons without at least pretending to upgrade the team.

  293. Jerkface June 4th, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    But what did Almonte do that was so wrong?

    Hit better from the wrong side at a position the yankees have 5 million players already. You can’t give Girardi a roster with Gardner, Ellsbury, Ichiro, Soriano, & Beltran and expect him to play Zoilo Almonte.

    What we need there is a manager who is willing to listen to the GM,”I’m giving you Almonte, he is young and hits righties, try to give him a few starts a week vs right handers.” Instead it seems like Girardi only used him when he absolutely had to rest everyone else. Almontes biggest consecutive start came in a doubleheader because Girardi felt comfortable wearing him out for a day instead of one of the old players.

    Also say what you will but catcher is absolutely the easiest position to work a rookie into because it has built in offdays for the starter and you can’t shuffle your supporting cast into the role.

  294. sammiejohnson June 4th, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    Mark Feinsand ?@FeinsandNYDN 18s
    Yankees moves: Wade LeBlanc and Jose Ramirez added to active roster. Alfredo Aceves DFA’d and Preston Claiborne optioned to AAA.

  295. nutbutters June 4th, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    I’m convinced that Soriano was kept in the lineup so that someone would look worse than Jeter. Can’t have the farewell tour t-shirt selling star talking about owning teams and being the worst hitter in the league. Oh yeah, we can.

  296. Alvaro Espinosa June 4th, 2014 at 5:47 pm

    Sorry for the new question, but why does the Yankees farm system suck? It used to be great.

    Alvaro

  297. matzcrorkz August 5th, 2014 at 5:13 pm

    fT5dSD Very informative post.Much thanks again. Fantastic.

  298. crorkz August 6th, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    lS7axF I am so grateful for your blog.Really looking forward to read more. Want more.

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