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Girardi: “You can’t just start changing everything”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 10, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Derek Jeter

Thirty seven times Carlos Beltran has been in the Yankees starting lineup this season, and for 36 of those games, he batting third, fourth or fifth. Always in the middle of the order. Always in a high-profile spot. Always in a position that makes clear that the Yankees expect him to be a potent run producer.

On Monday, Beltran was batting seventh.

Of course, that was before the rain started coming down in a relentless shower that forced a postponement. Manager Joe Girardi never actually used the lineup he posted in the clubhouse, but the prepared batting order was certainly different from anything the Yankees had previously used this season. Surely a sign of the Yankees manager planning to shake up the lineup and try to get something going.

Alfonso SorianoOr maybe not.

“The one thing you can’t do is you can’t just start changing everything,” Girardi said. “You look at what guys have done in the past, you look at what guys have done this year, and you try to put what you feel is the best lineup together every day. It’s been two months. We’ve struggled the last three or four weeks scoring runs. Obviously we know we need to score more, but guys are going through a tough time and sometimes you’ve just got to ride it out a little bit.”

Monday’s lineup had slumping Alfonso Soriano hitting cleanup. It had Mark Teixeira up from fourth to third. It had Beltran in the bottom third of the order, and Yangervis Solarte hitting ahead of Brian McCann. It had Brendan Ryan getting a rare start at second base. But there were extenuating circumstances — Jacoby Ellsbury was out with a sore hip, the Royals were scheduled to start a lefty — that seem to have played a big role in the changes.

“Sometimes (changing the lineup) can have an impact,” Girardi said. “Probably a lot of times it doesn’t. You might move a guy one position down, one position up, that sort of thing. For the most part, numbers equal out over time. Maybe it’s (like) trying to buy and sell stocks all the time. You’re trying to figure out when it’s going to be its highest and when it’s going to be at its lowest, and it’s tough to predict. No one knows the answer.”

Ellsbury had a bad month of May — .231/.317/.327 — but he’s turned things around to become the Yankees hottest hitter the past few weeks. It seems the Yankees are banking on their other underperforming veterans to do the same. McCann is hitting well belong his career averages. So is Beltran (after a strong April), and so is Soriano (who was a really productive hitter as recently as September). And then, of course, there’s Derek Jeter who’s hitting just .254 with no power to speak of, yet he’s remained in the No. 2 spot in the order.

I maintain that the Yankees have far more pressing offensive issues than the placement of Jeter in the lineup, but it’s Jeter and so his spot in the order gets a ton of attention. Does Girardi take player expectations into account when creating a lineup? Does he consider the fact that veterans are used to seeing their names in certain spots?

“Obviously you think about that because their mind is a part of this too, not (only) the physical skills,” Girardi said. “You think about that as well. But for the most part, our guys have been consistently in the same areas. Maybe a little tweak here, a tweak there, but for the most part they’ve consistently been in the same areas.”

So as significant as Monday’s proposed lineup might have seemed on paper, it might be nothing more than a one-time change washed away by the rain.

“You know that it’s a long haul, you know that it’s 162 games, and averages are usually averages because over time it’s going to equal out,” Girardi said. “So I’ve got to believe we’ve got some guys who are due to get hot.”

Associated Press photos

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127 Responses to “Girardi: “You can’t just start changing everything””

  1. Mordot11 June 10th, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Why, exactly, can’t you start changing everything? Is it because of ego? Joe should pick the batting order out of a hat. It’s not like any of these guys have really earned a particular place in the order to this point.

  2. Giuseppe Franco June 10th, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Well, I think if anything the first 2 months of the season has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it all comes down to pitching.

  3. austinmac June 10th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    GF,

    We could have great pitching, but we would have to score more runs to compete. They have been averaging three runs per game lately.

  4. alabamayankee June 10th, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Chad, it’s not a case of Jeter having “no power to speak of.” The words “Jeter” and “power” in the same sentence is a contradiction of terms. He has no power. None. He is reduced to hitting weak dribblers which at times may escape an infielder’s grasp. He is the focus of this malaise because he is supposed to be the inspiration, and yet his ego won’t accept the fact that he’s a shadow of his former self.

    I know the impact of hitting coaches is debatable, but I think firing Kevin Long may be something of a jolt to wake the offensively-challenged prima donnas up. I’m tired of hearing about the back of their baseball cards.

  5. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:31 am

    Why, exactly, can’t you start changing everything?
    ===================
    Well last nights lineup had some changes, major changes..

  6. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 9:31 am

    GF-

    Would have been nice to see how things worked out if we had an O too.

  7. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:34 am

    How is this Jeter’s fault?
    Did he tell Girardi, under no circumstances do you drop me in the order?
    Did Jorge consent to be being dropped?
    Arod?
    There is no way around it, Joe is to blame here.
    As is the Yankee Way these days, they are playing scared, well Joe is.
    There’s no sense of urgency spelled W-I-N-N-I-N-G.

    Maybe Joe is afraid Jete will act like Jorge and protest..

  8. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:34 am

    REPOST
    Because why not

    Two trades, neither likely to happen but one is plausible while the other is really not and if it were it would have to take place in the offseason.

    Trade One:

    Yankees get: Lonnie Chisenhall and SS/2b Jose Ramirez
    Indians get: David Robertson

    Why the Indians do this deal: Cleveland is two games out of the AL Central and fighting for the Wild Card. They’ve gotten good production out of John Axford but he’s not a particularly good closer overall – this would be a solid upgrade to their pen while giving up only one piece from their ML roster in Chisenhall who is having a solid year but doesn’t have a position with Santana at 3b and Swisher at 1b. Ramirez is ranked as Cleveland’s 7th best prospect and, while he’s best at 2b he’s good at SS too. He’s a line drive hitter switch hitter (think a younger Solarte) with great speed (led the IL with 38 SB last year) but is blocked by Fransisco Lindor and Jason Kipnis.

    Why the Yankees do this deal: If the Chisenhall that’s playing for the Indians now is the real deal then the Yankees would lock in a 26 year old LH 3b with plenty of power for the next few years (he’s not yet arbitration eligible) and a player in Ramirez who could take over for Jeter next season – all of a sudden the Yankees have an infield with 3 guys all under 30. I love Robertson but if you can get even one everyday player for an impending FA closer I think you have to do it – especially when you look at how deep this organization is in back of the rotation pitchers.

    Trade 2:
    Mets get: Brett Gardner
    Yankees get: David Wright

    Why the Mets do it: David Wright is poorly suited to his home park. They need a leadoff hitter and CF. It saves them a bunch of money (Wright is owed $107 mil between 2015 and 2020 vs Gardner who is owed $53 million between next year and 2018). Gardner would be a perfect fit for Citi Field, he would easily lead the majors in triples hitting in that park and he can cover a ton of ground for them in CF.

    Why the Yankees do it: Put David Wright at 3b for the next 5 years and let him take aim at the RF porch with his opposite field swing. They’ll miss Gardner in the OF, but they could sign someone with CF skills like Colby Rasmus to replace him and/or promote from within a guy like Ramon Flores or Zoilo Almonte.

    If they did this deal, promote Pirela to play 2b next year and move Solarte to SS you would look at a lineup of:

    Ellsbury – CF
    Solarte – SS
    Wright – 3b
    Tex – 1b
    Beltran – RF
    McCann – C
    Rodriguez – DH
    Rasmus – LF
    Pirela – 2b

  9. Giuseppe Franco June 10th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    austinmac,

    That was pure sarcasm and a wave to those who kept insisting all offseason that pitching would determine this team’s fate.

  10. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Mac & MTU

    I believe GF was being sarcastic.

  11. Mottsx June 10th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Anyone else feel like Nuno is a future Oakland A?

  12. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:36 am

    It’s another way to say I told you so…

  13. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:38 am

    “You know that it’s a long haul, you know that it’s 162 games, and averages are usually averages because over time it’s going to equal out,” Girardi said. “So I’ve got to believe we’ve got some guys who are due to get hot.”

    I understand why a manager has to publicly say that – but I hope that he (and Cashman) at least privately acknowledge that some of the guys he’s waiting to get hot and live up to their averages won’t because they’re no longer at a point in their careers where they can live up to their averages. Specifically I’m looking at Soriano, Roberts and yes, Jeter. If it was 2004 and they were struggling like this then I would agree with Girardi, but the fact is that they’re all old men now and can’t be counted on for that hot streak that would get their numbers back to where they’ve been for their careers.

  14. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Sorry GF.

    It’s early and I’m slow on the uptake.

    Better get myself some more coffee.

  15. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 9:44 am

    Chip-

    Good point.

    The possibility exists that maybe this is now who they are.

    If so, it’s very unfortunate.

  16. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:46 am

    MTU –

    It’s only unfortunate if the Yankee front office refuses to accept it as a possibility.

  17. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    Chip -

    David Wright is also on the older side, isn’t he? I mean, he’s been around for-ever. I like David Wright, don’t get me wrong. And there were times I wished we could somehow figure out how to have all of Wright, Arod, Jeter and Cano. If it was Wright for 2 years, maybe. Not Wright for 5 at this stage of his career. It’d been walking down the same path, wouldn’t it?

    And I just can’t trade Robertson. Who would be the closer for the Yankees? Betances has never done it – he probably could do it, but he’s never done it. And not that I’m on the Betances needs to start bandwagon (I’m okay whatever way they eventually decide to go), but if they trade Robertson, there is not even a discussion of Betances back in the rotation, and then we’re down a closer and a potential starter for next season (Pineda is no guarantee, and we don’t know how Nova is going to bounce back from TJS.)

  18. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Chip-

    Doesn’t sound like they are convinced just yet.

  19. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    As for hot streaks, and waiting for them to start, you also have to hope that several hot streaks occur simultaneously, and last for a while.

    But one thought – while it’s true we are one-third into the season, more or less, we haven’t had the lineup that was supposed to get through the season for enough of a part of that one-third. So, if Beltran is healthy and Tex is healthy (healthy being a relative term), I think it’s fair to take a wait and see approach for a short time more. Maybe 10 days?

  20. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Doreen –

    Wright is currently 31, turns 32 in December.

    You’re right, I would hand the ball to Betances in the 9th. True he’s never done it, but outside of a few games here and there neither had Robertson until this year.

    There’s nothing to say the Yankees couldn’t re-sign Robertson as a FA following the season if they wanted to transition Betances back to the rotation or hand the ball to one of the other relievers: Warren, Ramirez, Burawa, Kelley, etc….

  21. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    MTU June 10th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Chip-

    Doesn’t sound like they are convinced just yet.
    ——————

    Like I said, I don’t blame Girardi for standing by his guys publicly, what the Yankees are saying internally may (hopefully) be something very different.

  22. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Doreen, Dave Robertson has never done before this season. Dave, however has shown to be an excellent backend reliever for a few years to which betance lacks. anyhow, the equation is finding a new closer if Drob is traded. some team switch closer quite a bit and in the absence of MO, aint a big deal.

    Chip, in dealing with realism, Mets is not going to trade their Derek Jeter for Gardner.

  23. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Betances will get chances to close this season as they are in experimentation mode.
    They very well could let DRob go but Betances will get his audition first.
    Maybe this time they make the trade so many advised with Cano and get something back.
    That would take some imagination and Cash might be lame duck, but I doubt that too.

  24. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 9:50 am

    As for hot streaks, and waiting for them to start, you also have to hope that several hot streaks occur simultaneously, and last for a while.

    But one thought – while it’s true we are one-third into the season, more or less, we haven’t had the lineup that was supposed to get through the season for enough of a part of that one-third. So, if Beltran is healthy and Tex is healthy (healthy being a relative term), I think it’s fair to take a wait and see approach for a short time more. Maybe 10 days?
    ———————-

    Oh, I think Tex and Beltran and McCann will all start playing better (though Tex is actually playing well) the guys I would have a hard time running out there game in and game out are Roberts and Soriano. They’re both healthy, just not productive. I don’t think that’s a result of the lineup, I think that’s just a sign that they’re both at the end of their careers.

  25. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 9:54 am

    to be realistic, yanks need a 10 game losing streak before they even contemplating the above as well.

    every loss is a WIN.

  26. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:56 am

    Cashmoney – I totally agree which is why I prefaced the post by saying that one trade was plausible and the other wasn’t really.

  27. mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    Losses and injuries determine our fate.
    What a way to run a ballclub.

  28. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Man if I’m Betances’ agent I tell the the Yankees we want a chance at starting before they get
    Their iron grip on his arm and try to ride the “we
    Found the next Mo!!” sound bite.

  29. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Whether the Yankees trade Gardner or not – I would still look to sign Rasmus next winter. It would mean Beltran would be the regular DH which would put Alex at 3b and Solarte at 2b or SS.

  30. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    Man if I’m Betances’ agent I tell the the Yankees we want a chance at starting before they get
    Their iron grip on his arm and try to ride the “we
    Found the next Mo!!” sound bite.
    ————————-

    And they would laugh at you so hard because you have literally zero leverage to make that demand.

  31. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    G is under pressure as the team continue to sunk into the abyss, I imaging Cashman is getting some heat as Hal look at his 200 mil investment possibly goes in the way of doodoo.

    but this kind of pressure to force their hands can only be expected if the Yankees continue to lose.

  32. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Betances is more comfortable as a reliever.
    It’s working, why mess with success?

  33. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    I like your cleveland deal chip.

  34. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Right, Robertson has at least had a lot more experience in late inning relief, and has experience in some very high pressure games. I didn’t have any doubt he could do the closer’s role. I don’t have any doubt Betances could eventually pull it off, but I am in favor of bringing it along more slowly. I don’t like jumping into the deep end. I understand that other people swear by that approach. :)

    I would agree that it looks like with Roberts what you see is what you’re going to get. Soriano might still have a hot streak or two in him. But I don’t know if those will be long enough streaks to make a difference. I wouldn’t cry any tears if they replaced either one of those players.

    I already have the feeling that these Yankees have an identity crisis. Or at least I have a crisis about the identity of this Yankees’ team. ;) I need to have some familiarity. No Robertson, Gardner, no Jeter – don’t know if I can deal with that.

  35. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    I like your cleveland deal chip.
    —————-

    Alright – let’s go make it happen then!!

  36. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:02 am

    The Yanks will have to find a leader next year.
    Good luck with that.

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    OB at first on Sumday was
    Apparently the first go so maybe they are looking to fast track him.’he was fine over there for
    That game – the Refsnyder throw way off the bag on aborted DP was on Refsnyder. What OB needs though is many more turns against offspeed, like
    Nearly every other evolving power bat. Judge may get to the Bronx sooner,

  38. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    To determine what they eventually end up doing with Betances, they have to do what some have suggested – bringing up some of the stronger relief guys from the system, and give them a real solid chance to show what they can do. If they are as good as hoped, then they can entertain the idea of Betances back to the rotation, especially when they get down to brass tacks in the off-season, regarding which starters are available and how much they’re going to cost (both $ and length of contract) and how old they are and how they’re trending.

    I don’t think they can count of Pineda. I think they should see where he’s at by the end of the season, and flip-flop him and Betances. Make Pineda the strike out guy out of the pen.

    I mean, they can look into all these things.

  39. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:02 am

    The Yanks will have to find a leader next year.
    Good luck with that.
    ——————-

    Beltran?

  40. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:06 am

    McCann?

    Tex?

    Gardner?

    ARod?

  41. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    The Yanks going all rookie mode reminds me of the Dave Collins speed years when George tried to reinvent the Yankees.
    I know Hal thinks he’s set next year but he better find himself a power hitting RF and a SS with pop.

  42. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    The Yanks will have to find a leader next year.
    Good luck with that.
    ——————-

    Beltran?
    ==============
    Not liking the preview.

  43. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    Beltran had been showing a tendency toward taking on a leadership role early this season, before he went on the DL.

  44. Giuseppe Franco June 10th, 2014 at 10:07 am

    mick June 10th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    Losses and injuries determine our fate.
    What a way to run a ballclub.

    The front office signed their own death wish when they chose to construct a team full of age and high risk players.

    Give a monkey a gun and when it shoots somebody you don’t blame the monkey.

  45. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Doreen,

    Prior to the latest set back with Pineda I was all for leaving Betances in the pen next year.

    Now what I would do is try to get him up to about 95 or 100 innings in relief this year and tell him to come to camp in February prepared to compete for a starting role. If he can’t do it in spring training you just put him back in the pen when the season starts and move from there.

    With his ability to be a starter unknown though – the Yankees are going to have to add at least one high end arm (Jon Lester?) to give them a projected front four of Tanaka, Lester, Sabathia with Phelps/Pineda/Betances/Banuelos up for the last two spots. If he’s healthy, Pineda will get one of those spots leaving Phelps, Betances and Banuelos up for the last one.

  46. sunny615 June 10th, 2014 at 10:08 am

    Girardi: “You can’t just start changing everything”

    I’d start with Cashman all the way on down.

  47. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    I think they will pull a Wetteland on DRob as signing him long term will block Betances and they see MO all over him.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Agents discuss their players with management all the time. No one laughs at them, really they don’t. Having interacted with sports reps players
    And sports management for 10 years I have a first-hand knowledge of how these things go, Chip

  49. bruceb June 10th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    There’s more chance of me winning the lottery than there is of the Mets trading David Wright for Brett Gardner.
    And after Lonnie Chisenhall’s performance last night, the Indians will probably want Robertson, Betances and half the farm system.

    I don’t know whether it’s playing at CitiField – or whether it’s just playing for the Mets – but Wright isn’t the player he used to be. He really could have done with a change of scenery, but the Mets gave him $138 million and he put the money before his career. He’s still the face of the franchise, especially with Harvey out for the year.

    Can’t see anyone taking on that contract right now…especially the Yankees.

  50. Giuseppe Franco June 10th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Identifying someone as the team leader hasn’t exactly helped them win ballgames the last couple of seasons.

  51. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:10 am

    “Give a monkey a gun and when it shoots somebody you don’t blame the monkey.”

    They make better organ grinders.

    :)

  52. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:10 am

    I know Lester may not be what he’s been, but he’s a lefty and he should be good enough still for a few years. I fear he’s going to want more money and years than the Yankees should be comfortable with.

    I like your plan for Pineda, Betances.

    I don’t know if Banuelos will be in the mix next season. He looked like he’s still got a ways to go. Still, it’s early this year.

  53. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    A leader will emerge, you really don’t “pick one.” But it’s interesting to try and figure out who that might be.

  54. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    GF –

    Again though – the Yankees constructed a team of older/injury risk players by signing guys like CC and Tex to long term contracts when they were in their primes and not letting Jeter walk away even though he still wanted to play.

    Yes, Soriano was old when they traded for him last year, but he was productive. Beltran has been healthy and productive for the last three years. Really the only guy they brought in knowing they weren’t going to get much out of was Roberts.

    It’s why long term deals stink – the moves that look great today come back and bite you 4 years down the road.

  55. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Chip

    They had better get 2 pitchers, maybe 1 at the TD, plus a FA next year.
    You can’t depend on Sabathia or Pineda and Nova wont be back till late or mid season.
    There is a lot of work to do plus the emotional loss of Jeter.

  56. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Identifying someone as the team leader hasn’t exactly helped them win ballgames the last couple of seasons.
    =================
    You can’t prove that statement .

  57. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:13 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Agents discuss their players with management all the time. No one laughs at them, really they don’t. Having interacted with sports reps players
    And sports management for 10 years I have a first-hand knowledge of how these things go, Chip
    ———————

    Dellin Betances is not arbitration eligible until 2017, not a free agent until 2020. If his agent says “Dellin wants to start” and Cashman says, “that’s nice, we want him to do what we think is best for the team” that’s the end of the conversation.

    So yes, in theory Dellin’s agent can ask (assuming that’s what Dellin wants to do – though he’s given no indication that he’s anything but thrilled to be a MLRP) but the Yankees are under no obligation to listen.

  58. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:14 am

    SS, COF, SP.

    Maybe a 3b or a 2b.

    Next year’s assignment Hal.

    ;)

  59. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Beltran has 2 years left here . Not really in a leadership position being lame duck.

  60. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Chip

    They had better get 2 pitchers, maybe 1 at the TD, plus a FA next year.
    You can’t depend on Sabathia or Pineda and Nova wont be back till late or mid season.
    There is a lot of work to do plus the emotional loss of Jeter.

    —————————

    You can’t depend on Sabathia but you have to make a space for him on the roster because he’s not going anywhere.

    Because you can’t depend on him (or really Pineda either) would mean that if the opening day rotation is:

    Tanaka, Lester, Sabathia, Pineda, Betances then Girardi can’t do what he did this year which was putting his 6, 7 and 8 starters in the pen. They have to be ready to come up and go full games.

  61. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Lester like Andy is a leader type.
    There is no captain type leader, that will take a while.

  62. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:16 am

    Lester like Andy is a leader type.
    There is no captain type leader, that will take a while.
    —————–

    Agreed.

  63. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:17 am

    One problem the Yankees do not have is a shortage of relievers.

    As Mick has said, there will be a lot work to do in the OS.

  64. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:18 am

    I think there’s more of a chance of bringing up some rookie relievers and moving Warren into a starting role Chip.

  65. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Lester is going to want at least 5 years and more than 20 per.

    More likely he’ll want 6/7.

  66. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    You can’t depend on Sabathia but you have to make a space for him on the roster because he’s not going anywhere.
    ==================
    Chip,
    For all we know CC is done.

  67. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Jose Pirela played LF last night, he’s also played 1b and a lot of 2b…he’s 24, hitting around .330 – get him up here and put him at 2b and see what happens.

  68. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Lester is going to want at least 5 years and more than 20 per.
    ==========================
    If he can get it, MTU.
    He also might want to stick it to the bosox as many have done before.

  69. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Chip-

    I’m sure that is one of the options being considered.

  70. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Chip,
    You can bet Hal is dying to bring some rooks up.
    Has to be the reason he got stopgap Roberts.

  71. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Likewise w Wheeler, Almonte, and Garcia.

  72. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:23 am

    Change is in the wind.

    ;)

  73. Chip June 10th, 2014 at 10:24 am

    MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Lester is going to want at least 5 years and more than 20 per.

    More likely he’ll want 6/7.
    ———————-

    Probably – and so the question becomes whether or not what happened to CC scares the Yankees from giving another work horse a long term contract.

    He’s the same age CC was when the Yankees gave Sabathia his new deal but will have thrown a lot fewer innings. He should finish this season at about 1,600 innings whereas CC was at around 2,600 innings.

  74. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    I said this last year and this is what some have wanted all along.
    Hal’s plan is to prove his father wrong and build a team from within.
    Why pay big money and long term deals only to be held hostage by them?
    This will take time and possibly some losing years.

  75. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Is Cole Hamels available ?

    And if he is, is he worth having ?

    Would it be possible to swing a 3-way trade for Price for next season ?

  76. Jerkface June 10th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Chip there is absolutely no way the Indians give us 2 players including Lonnie Chisenhall for RObertson. Look at what he is hitting this season. He is hitting over .380 with an over 1 OPS. He just went 5 for 5 with 3 HRs. He is doing it in a legit sample size and is only 25.

  77. mick June 10th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    MTU

    The Yanks could use an Adonis and a Zealous.
    Even a Judge might preside..

  78. Jerkface June 10th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    That trade might have worked before the season, but not now. God look at this line: .385 .429 .615 1.044 Thats insane.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 10:28 am

    Thanks Chip I
    Already am fully aware of Dellins contract status. He’s a young player who already has expressed he’d like to return to starting one day. If you don’t understand that a good rep makes sure to keep his clients’ wishes in the consciousness of team management and doesn’t laugh at them being periodically expressed then you don’t understand how these
    Things work. That’s fine – if you’ve never dealt with agents or players or GMs you wouldn’t really know how these people interact in a given business community. Can’t even count how many times in my decade of dealing with those people that an agent acknowledged they were not pleased
    With how their player was
    Being used, etc and how they would
    Say “when I talk to Joe Blank on Monday
    Going to tell him…” or “we to them he doesn’t like how they’re using him on the PP and they said they’d try him on the 2nd unit with blank instead.” etc.
    And no they don’t “demand” but
    That was
    Never my word; it was yours.’ Don’t think for a minute that Betances” reps aren’t aware of how much more he can earn as a successful
    Starter and how with his stuff the sky’s the limit.
    The agents aren’t Yankee subordinates they are people who look after their clients very closely.

  80. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:29 am

    “The Yanks could use an Adonis and a Zealous.
    Even a Judge might preside..”

    Hard to top that one mick.

    ;)

  81. Wave Your Hat June 10th, 2014 at 10:32 am

    If Boston doesn’t want Lester then I don’t want him either.

  82. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Refsnyder is a fast mover too.

    Guy looks like he can hit.

  83. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 10:34 am

    hamels has 5 years left @$22M plus a club option for $20M in 2019 and he’s 30 years old. It’s a very good contract and he’s very worth having. the cost of aquisition is the big question.

    amaro is much like the yankees brass as he keeps thinking that adding another veteran is all this team needs, but one would have to expect some kind of a rebuild starting at the trade deadline. They need young talent even worse than the yankees do. i dont see a match at all here.

  84. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    WYH-

    They have offered him at least 4 years and 20 mil per.

    He, of course, wants more.

    He likes Boston and loves Farrell.

    I figure they’ll find a compromise at some point.

  85. austinmac June 10th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    GF,

    I’m slower than MTU this morning.

  86. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Ms,As and Jays… this will either get better or get ugly real quick.

  87. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    Y’s-

    I was just wondering out loud.

    Not sure what the Phillies will need.

    I think Papelboner is gone after this season.

    Utley is up there.

    So is Ruiz.

  88. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    If yanks comes home with 1 -5 record in the next 6 games, I think you will see some changes.

  89. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    Baseball is impossible to predict.

    ;)

  90. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    when i was listening to mo on mike francessa last week talk about when he was switched to the bullpen. he said he still wanted to start, like just about all pitchers, especially the ones who made it all the way to the majors as a starter. but he also said he really enjoyed being in the majors and having success as a reliever. it made me think of betances.
    i’m sure he’d like to start again, but I’m equally sure that he wants to continue to be successful, and like mo at the time, he can see that his future is very likely as a closer. And that going back to starting very likely means going back down to the minors and trying to make it back up to the big club from there, and that it would be no sure thing that he’d actually make it back to the bigs.

  91. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    If Pineda cannot stay healthy I could see a Betances/Pineda swap.

  92. MTU June 10th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Mop walk time.

  93. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Pineda should be an afterthought at this point. you hope and pray and treat it as a bonus.

  94. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    mtu, i think about hamels as a yankee alot since i used to live in philly and saw him pitch in alot of games. i’d LOVE to see him in pinstripes and I’m very curious to see what happens with the phils.

    but the smartest move for the phillies in many ways is to keep hamels as thier ace to build around. he’s a world series hero in philly and he’s young enough to bridge the gap over a rebuild (at least theoretically) and can sell some tickets when there’s not much else to go to CBP to see.

    however, few people in philly use the adjective ‘smart’ when talking about ruben amaro jr. I think there is little chance they will allow amaro to do the rebuild, so he is likely out by this season’s end.

  95. Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:56 am

    An aging Captain commandeering a leaky ship is what I see in short. I don’t think that is necessary a bad thing as it might prompt more soul searching and critical self appraisal inside of this organization and thus prompt some changes.

  96. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    I’m not a big believer that changing the GM will make alot of difference with the Yankees because I think all the big decisions are being above him. But, this team needs some changes and some new thinking and needs to make what moves it can at the trade deadline and I’d prefer to see someone other than Cashman doing that work.

    I’ve been reasonably supportive of Cash, and I think he’s done a pretty good job up till the last few seasons, so I’m not one of those who’ve been saying ‘fire cashman’ since before they won the WS in 09. But I think the time for a change has come and hopefully going through the process will cause Hal and Randy to take stock in what their meddling and lack of baseball knowlege has done to this team and maybe leave a crack of space in which an actual GM can operate.

    just my two cents, and if they go that route, I’ll always think well of Cashman going forward. It’s just time…

  97. Tackelberry June 10th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Adonis got hurt last night. THink it was a hamstring so he is not an option right now

  98. Shame Spencer June 10th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    Girardi knows he upset the entire country of Japan, right?

    I get wanting to give Tank the extra rest, but doesn’t that mean he misses Oakland? Did I make that up? Admittedly, I can’t count and haven’t tried to figure out the rotation turns for over a month now.

  99. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:09 am

    Alot of people say that Hal is nothing like his dad, and in many ways that is correct. (I don’t believe I’ve ever seen hal wearing a turtleneck, for one). But in the most critical ways he is very much like his father. He knows nothing about baseball but he meddles. Hal’s brand of meddling is to allow Levine and the buisness side step all over the baseball people and make decisions that don’t make long-term sense.
    Another similarity is that under both George and Hal the minors has produced very little. With George it was always trading away any young talent for someone on the far end of their career, with Hal it’s been more about poor drafting and development.

    George won all of 2 World Series in 25 seasons of running the Yankees ‘his way’ (before the 2nd suspension), and Hal has one so far, so Hal still has a way to go to do as poorly as Dad did, but he seems to be well on his way to catching up to Dad’s futility.

  100. Wave Your Hat June 10th, 2014 at 11:09 am

    “I get wanting to give Tank the extra rest, but doesn’t that mean he misses Oakland?”

    It looks that way. Pushing back Tanaka tonight means he’ll get get two straight starts on long rest because of the off day flying home from the Coast. Maybe that’s why they are going with Nuno tonight.

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:12 am

    I don’t think they can count of Pineda. I think they should see where he’s at by the end of the season, and flip-flop him and Betances. Make Pineda the strike out guy out of the pen.
    ///

    I see people are now warming to this idea.

    I suggested long ago that Pineda was a better bullpen candidate with his uncertain health and that Betances is the one who should be starting.

    Betances doesn’t lose velocity in later innings either, and he also doesn’t have a “developing” changeup; when he uses it with some regularity it stays in the plus range and even has become an emergency K weapon, plus one to throw for strikes to get ahead, when he doesn’t have his curveball or even when his fastball isn’t quite there.

    This is all part of the Betances should start argument; he has ways to mitigate, to “survive” when not everything is working, and survive at an elite level, through multiple innings – the very thing that people assumed he can’t do. Lot of bad information out there, including Cone with his remarkably unresearched and blatantly incorrect statements on YES broadcasts about Betances: “Not just a fastball guy any more,” to Curry’s – I think it was – “he doesn’t need to develop a third pitch…” Well, he’s half right; he doesn’t have to because he already has a third pitch, and a plus one, at that.

    Betances has now demonstrated over a large sample size that the whole “his delivery makes him a terminally bad candidate for starting,” very insubstantial. The Yankees are simply like a domestic fat cat that is fine eating dried food all day and sinking into the couch; they know they can get lights out relief from Betances so they don’t aspire higher.

    Makes their whole “pitching wins” thing pretty hollow, because it’s starting pitching like Betances can give you that “wins.”

  102. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    you dont tie pineda to betances or vice versa. you do the right thing for each independent of the other.

  103. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:18 am

    I’ve seen betances start several times and I’d much rather see him stay right where he is for the rest of this season.

  104. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    btw, betances change was great, i saw guys shaking their heads walking back to the trenton dugout wondering what the hell that pitch was.

    but his problem seemed to be that once he got the change going, he couldnt’ control his other pitches.

    i see no reason to expect that the same thing wouldnt happen again. but im ok with trying in ST.

  105. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    walking back to the dugout *in trenton*. if they were walking back to the trenton dugout they’d be really lost….

  106. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Ys Guy -

    You’re right. Betances and Pineda’s fate should be evaluated independently of each other. But I do think if they decide Pineda can’t start due to the shoulder, I think it further opens the path for them to rethink/re-evaluate Betances’ role. Which they should do at the end of the season, anyway.

    J. Alfred,

    I seriously don’t know how those YES guys can say that Betances doesn’t have/need a third pitch, when it was reported when he was first being used out of the pen in the ML this season that Larry Rothschild was having him throw his change up in bullpen sessions. Or did I misremember?????

  107. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Cashmoney June 10th, 2014 at 10:45 am

    Pineda should be an afterthought at this point. you hope and pray and treat it as a bonus.
    ///

    If we could have Betances-Nova-Pineda to go along with Tanaka in the rotation, that would be insane. It would also strain optimism, unfortunately

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:32 am

    Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    btw, betances change was great, i saw guys shaking their heads walking back to the trenton dugout wondering what the hell that pitch was.

    but his problem seemed to be that once he got the change going, he couldnt’ control his other pitches.
    ///

    I think he goes to the change when his other pitches aren’t there – like in his final start last May, the rain was coming down and he messed with his grips, so he went to the change predominantly and no-hit the Braves’ AAA affiliate for five innings (they then took him out). Power change that has great movement and fade. Even out of pen, he should revive it for at least LHB

  109. Shame Spencer June 10th, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Like I said, I get the logic of resting him for an extra day… but that Oakland series just got a bit more difficult.

  110. blake June 10th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    Wake me when Tanaka pitches

  111. G. Love June 10th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    I see Joe’s back to the “back of the baseball” schtick.

    I can’t wait for the day that they either sell the team or clean house of these voices who tell multimillionaires it’s okay to stink because your history when you were younger and playing for a big contract says you won’t…

    The kindler gentler no accountability Yankees are failing.

    The only guys they put pressure on in recent years were Cano & Nova and both of them eventually developed into better players.

    Girardi, Hal, the whole lot of’em, are about as demanding as Mr. Rogers. In fact, I think Girardi should start wearing a cardigan over his uniform in the dugout. Navy blue, of course.

  112. blake June 10th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    I may wake for Betances…..otherwise…..zzzzzzzz

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    you dont tie pineda to betances or vice versa. you do the right thing for each independent of the other.
    ///

    No, I agree with that. Just saying that Pineda is really the one who may not have the health to sustain being a starter, since he is velocity dependent to be a true plus one.

    Betances, knock wood, is brimming with health and stamina, and as I said, it was said here a couple of years ago by regulars that Betances’ velo wasn’t really in the mid-90s, because they were all reading “scouting” reports that never differentiated his cutter from his four-seam fastball. Everyone insisted on this stuff, and those people still probably think if he’s a starter he’s going to throw 93 at the top of his sitting velocity: this isn’t true and never was true.

    He throws 93-95 sitting, hits 96 often and 97 too, tops 98-99 and I did see a 101 on the gun down in Trenton in the latter stages of a start.

    It was also said “he loses velocity in later innings” and we told the board this wasn’t true, but the same statement persisted, based again on “scouting” reports of shadowy guys who see these players like once a year and make definitive statements.

    Betances, I will say, never lost velocity in any of the 12-14 starts I have seen live over his milb career. Never. He’s always throwing 96, 97 in the fifth and even the sixth.

  114. Doreen June 10th, 2014 at 11:41 am

    blake -

    Not even Solarte will keep you awake?

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:50 am

    J. Alfred,

    I seriously don’t know how those YES guys can say that Betances doesn’t have/need a third pitch, when it was reported when he was first being used out of the pen in the ML this season that Larry Rothschild was having him throw his change up in bullpen sessions. Or did I misremember?????
    ///

    Nope, you didn’t. Even when they were already toying with the bullpen scenario, they had him throw his change in the AFL (those were all effectively “bullpen” outings for our pitchers, IIRC; just short stints).

    He had gotten away from using his change in a lot of 2011 starts and Nardi wanted him to throw it in the AFL, and throw it he did.

    It’s ridiculous: Aldred, Contreras have talked many times about how good his changeup is; anyone who’s seen him pitch enough has seen what a weapon it can be – he used it against LHB even when he wasn’t calling upon it to bail out his other pitches, in starts where everything was working.

    And Rothschild did want him to keep that pitch current, to throw it on days he wasn’t making an appearance. Now even if they keep him shackled in the bullpen, that pitch needs to come out of hiding against LHB.

  116. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 11:53 am

    Girardi, Hal, the whole lot of’em, are about as demanding as Mr. Rogers. In fact, I think Girardi should start wearing a cardigan over his uniform in the dugout. Navy blue, of course.
    ////

    LOL

    Can you say… you’re fired, Hal?

    Fire yourself, while you’re at it.

    Oh yeah, none of the above happenin’ :(

  117. G. Love June 10th, 2014 at 11:55 am

    I think this belief turning Pineda into a reliever will keep him healthy is pie in the sky thinking. What player with major shoulder surgery had a career saved by throwing in the pen?

    If he’s miraculously healthy for more than a month, you have to start him. I think having 5-6 days to recover between starts is more important than throwing every other day.

    And for the record, nobody won that trade. I think we can put that safely to bed.

  118. Shame Spencer June 10th, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    Pineda has been off my radar since he got hurt a couple spring trainings ago… People were chattering about him in ST, but I tried not to be excited. He threw some awesome games and despite my best efforts I was seduced by his stuff, style (who doesn’t love that hat?!), and stupidity (the pine tar thing still makes me laugh.. STILL!). But I’ve reverted back to my more suitable position of not buying in. He’s one of those ‘if healthy’ guys we know won’t be healthy much… not any time soon.

  119. Shame Spencer June 10th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    Betances has a better third pitch than Hughes.

  120. Shame Spencer June 10th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    :arrow:

  121. Jerkface June 10th, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    I think in most cases, throwing injury prone players into the pen isn’t so much about trying to save them from injury but reducing the impact of their loss. Losing a starter is a big deal. Losing a reliever is less big a deal, so you avoid the risk of trying to rely on a guy for 200 innings only to have them die.

  122. J. Alfred Prufrock June 10th, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    GLove,

    Maybe so, re Pineda in relief. But he is a guy who sharply loses velocity (always seems to start happening before the inevitable DL stint) and he is a guy who looked like his changeup was coming along but that he was still working with 2.5 pitches.

    My point is that Betances has health and vigor, doesn’t lose velo, and has a legit and even elite 3rd pitch.

    I don’t think Betances, once they put him in the saddle (not that this is ever happening, incidentally), would have any of those issues. At worst, IMO, he’ll walk some guys, and have high pitch counts in some of his starts. Big deal – he’ll self-correct, survive, and dominate.

  123. jmills June 10th, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    Hi guys, I’m stuck waiting for an apte. GLove, I’m happy to relate that Dustin McGowan might be having a career saved by the pen. I believe he’s had major shoulder reconstruction. He wanted to start this year, but being a diabetic, fatigue was apparently a factor. Dustin cooly got Dickey out of a sixth inning jam last night, and has provided a nice alternative to Delabar who has been rather all over the place.

  124. Ys Guy June 10th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    i believe there are agreements and commitments in place regarding jeter’s retirement tour (which is worth tens of millions of dollars) which prevent the manager from drastically changing his place in the order or his playing time.

    i think a lot of people underestimate the effect this is having on the team. It seems obvious to many, even many non-yankee fans, that ellsbury-gardner is a very dynamic start to the order and is easily the best lineup combo but that keeping jeter happy is trumping that. This sends out a clear signal that winning is not the top priority.

    If jeter was struggling for playing time there might be more of a sense of urgency to do more to do better to help, but by leaving him in his comfy place no matter what, everyone can see that putting the team in it’s best order to win is not important.

    I think that moving jeter down and limiting his playing time vs. righties would help this team alot more than most think.

    I expect in years to come that the books that look back on the end of jeters career will indicate that Yankees brass and Jeter did not speak to one another at all and that there was alot of animosity between them, the vibes of which reverberated all through the organization.

  125. NYY_Girl_Penny June 10th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    G. Love June 10th, 2014 at 11:37 am
    I see Joe’s back to the “back of the baseball” schtick.

    I can’t wait for the day that they either sell the team or clean house of these voices who tell multimillionaires it’s okay to stink because your history when you were younger and playing for a big contract says you won’t…

    The kindler gentler no accountability Yankees are failing.

    The only guys they put pressure on in recent years were Cano & Nova and both of them eventually developed into better players.

    Girardi, Hal, the whole lot of’em, are about as demanding as Mr. Rogers. In fact, I think Girardi should start wearing a cardigan over his uniform in the dugout. Navy blue, of course.

    ———–

    And that sad part of it is that those fans that can’t think for themselves buy into this rhetoric.

    I mean the comments Girardi has made should be a huge RED FLAG for his ability as a manager. It’s absurd, I mean I can’t even believe I am reading this crud. “Moving players in the batting order doesn’t matter, it irons out at the end of the year” ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

    This is why we have games where we’ve had over 10 hits and nothing to show for it, this is why you put your best hitters at the top of the lineup to get more AB’s. I mean, what is he managing here? Of course thinking of a players “mind” is part of it, BECAUSE IT IS SURE GIVING THEM A LOT OF ROOM TO SUCCEED NOW by kissing their tail ! First and foremost, this team needs a manager that MANAGES THE GAME OF BASEBALL and doesn’t just fill out medical forms.. I know a lot of people buy into this rubbish being spewed, but it doesn’t make it right.

    Years ago I said the Yankees were being run into the ground by the current ownership, others said, “we won’t know what the results will be of this new regime until a few years from now” well it’s been enough time, frankly it stinks!

    Is it too much to ask to see a manager PUSH their players, get into their face a little bit, challenge them ? What after all is a manager if he just constantly makes excuses for his players and doesn’t have the ability to bring the best of them out. Might as well let his son Dante do the lineup each night. RIDICULOUS.. ! How anyone says GIrardi is a good manager is beyond me, open your eyes or your brain!

  126. NYY_Girl_Penny June 10th, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Derek Jeter has absolutely no business batting 2nd. Stop kidding yourselves and thinking sentiment should justify current decisions. Jeter will be a HOF, he is well loved as a NYY and we have had many good years with him. I’ll miss him when he is gone, I already miss him.

    Stop this ridiculous BS where “he’s Derek Jeter” he has had over 200AB’s already and needs to be grateful he is even on the field at all at this point, let alone batting 2nd. Bat Jeter where he should be and that is 9th, the way Girardi likes to have a leadoff hitter turn around the lineup.. if Jeter doesn’t like it or can’t handle the pressure of being 40yo hitter batting 9th with the stats that justify it, then he can just RETIRE NOW.

    It’s like this group focuses on everything else but baseball first.. isn’t it time, we play some baseball ? Hit ‘em hard, do what’s best for the team? Stop walking on egg-shells because someone might frown at the manager.. Girardi needs to man the heck up!

  127. Retire21 June 10th, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Im gonna suggest something entirely different than moving Derek Jeter down in the order. Move him up. Bat him leadoff. Sounds crazy I know…

    FanGraphs says Jeter is not catching up to MLB fastballs anymore. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....nt-4567035 … But in 2012, he hit them just fine…. why? He lead off. Whats the difference? The majority of his leadoff ABs in 2012 ended after 1 pitch(2nd most being full count), in which he was 41-119 after the first pitch. Meaning Derek was able to guess right that the first pitch he would see would be a fastball. Resulting in over 40 hits (usually) over second base. Now, Derek cant jump on those pitches in the 2-hole, giving Gardner/Ellsbury their due pitches to try to steal bags.

    Move Jeter to 1, Gardner/Ells to 2/3, and you basically have Derek on base before the real leadoffs start the party. This may mean more GIDPs for Jeter with Kelly/BRob on the bases over Gardner/Ells, but at least the fast guys get to produce runs.

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