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Yankees defense: “That hurts us”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 25, 2014 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Derek Jeter, Colby Rasmus

Last night was ugly, and when it was all over, Yankees manager Joe Girardi acknowledged the ugly truth of this Yankees defense. Here’s a snippet from The Associated Press:

(Yangervis) Solarte’s errant throw was the only New York error, but reliable shortstop Derek Jeter made two costly mistakes. Toronto made three errors, two by Reyes.

“It was sloppy on both sides,” New York first baseman Mark Teixeira said. “That was an ugly game to watch. If you’re a fan, you should get your money back.”

Yankees manager Joe Girardi wasn’t promising refunds, but acknowledged that his team’s defense had been a problem again.

“That hurts us and at times it’s hurt us during the course of the season,” Girardi said. “It’s something that we clearly need to do a better job of.”

The Yankees cover plenty of ground in the outfield, but the their infield defense has not passed the eye test or the metrics test.

According to FanGraphs, the Yankees defense has been among the worst in baseball, and that surely comes as no surprise. Derek Jeter’s range is limited, Brian Roberts hardly played the previous four years, Kelly Johnson is playing out of position, and Gold Glove winner Mark Teixeira already has five errors, matching his single-season high since 2004 (Jeter too, whose sure hands are perhaps his greatest defensive strength, has made quite a few of his own errors). Even Brendan Ryan — perhaps because of the rust that comes with rarely playing — has not been his old self in the field.

Can’t imagine this has come as a shock to the Yankees.

Outside of Teixeira, the Yankees never seemed to have a particularly good defensive infield. It seemed that way on paper heading into the season, and it’s lived up to that expectation on the field. The Yankees might have to hit enough to make up for the defense, and we all know how that’s gone so far.

Shuffle things around with Rob Refsnyder or Jose Pirela or Scott Sizemore or Zelous Wheeler? Try to trade for a glove? Give Ryan more playing time?

Unless the Yankees are ready and willing to make a significant change, this is the infield they put in place, and this is the infield they’re going to have to live with.

Associated Press photo

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427 Responses to “Yankees defense: “That hurts us””

  1. Hassey June 25th, 2014 at 9:07 am

    This team is right on par with the 1982 team…nothing compellling at all despite having some big names on the roster. What a surprising disappointment.

    Oh, and the 2014 Yankee suck
    That is all

  2. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 8:52 am

    It seems like a while since that walk-off win, doesn’t it?

    —–

    Yeah, it was a season defining momentum changer for sure.

    Regarding the INF defense, I’ll let someone else say what everyone is thinking.

  3. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Why would they not be ready to make a change? We are getting what can be expected out of the infield. The team seems quite content for it to be a couple of notches below mediocrity.

    They better be giving plaques and Jeter ceremonies daily to get people to go in August and September.

  4. alabamayankee June 25th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Last night the Mets beat the A’s 10-1. When was the last time the Yankees scored 10 runs in a game? Our team is about to become the new laughingstock of New York baseball.

    This team isn’t just hard to watch, it’s impossible to watch. When they scrape a few runs together — a rare occurrence — they’re let down by the defense or pitching.

    Forget the playoffs. Ain’t gonna happen. The only joy to the season is watching Tampa and the Red Sox suffer worse.

  5. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Change the name on the uniform to another team, and we would all see the abysmal state of the team now and in the years ahead.

    Next year we need 3-4 starting pitchers, a SS, a 2B, a 3B and a right fielder. No problem. AROD will limp to third, Ryan will bring is bat to SS and they will re-sign Roberts and Ichiro to two year contracts. They will then plan on Nuno, Phelps and Whitley’s increased experience. I do believe that team, if all goes well, could win 70-75 games.

    Then, give all the front office personnel new contracts in thanks for what they do.

    Thanks Hal.

  6. Yankee Trader June 25th, 2014 at 9:17 am

    ” Ichiro Suzuki is baseball’s reigning trick-catch king.

    Fans and TV cameras adore his pregame theatrics. The future Hall of Famer grabs fly balls behind his back and with his eyes shut, and makes it all look so easy.

    But even Ichiro said he’s amazed at the show Yankees backup shortstop Brendan Ryan puts on before every game.”

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....plays.html

    Chad-

    Good morning and good summary of the defensive state of affairs.

    Do you have any video, you can share with us, of the pre-game routines Suzuki and Ryan go thru with their circus plays?

  7. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 9:24 am

    The thing about bad D is that it’s hard to quantify in terms of runs scored… especially since last night only produced one error on our side (which is a joke, really).

    But this D has put an extra weight around our pitchers’ necks. The more they have to pitch, the earlier they’re out of games, the more you need to go to the pen. Then our relievers are in the same position as our starters, throwing extra pitches, which adds up to extra innings, which creates fatigue…

  8. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 9:25 am

    austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 9:16 am
    Change the name on the uniform to another team, and we would all see the abysmal state of the team now and in the years ahead.

    ————–

    It’s true.. the pinstripes cover up a lot.

  9. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    Shame,

    You are exactly correct on the impact a poor defense has on the pitching. The starters don’t go long enough and the relievers pitch too much and it is exacerbated significantly by the defense.

    Let’s assess the team– horrid offense, horrid infield offensively and defensively, no power in the outfield or DH.

    Please help me understand why we’re not winning more.

  10. Hassey June 25th, 2014 at 9:32 am

    at least the pinstripes are slimming

  11. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Three things:

    1. Amazing troll job by Joel Sherman in the Post yesterday – he dedicated an entire column to asking whether or not the Yankees would have been better off keeping Granderson and Cano rather than signing the players they did.

    2. Girardi getting testy when Ken Davidoff asked him if he has given any thought to juggling the lineup. His bottom line is that his players will play up to their averages and he’s going to stay the course – that’s quite disheartening.

    3. I’ll admit, when Tanaka’s not pitching this team is not one that I feel compelled to run home and watch.

  12. 86w183 June 25th, 2014 at 9:33 am

    Morning all —

    Busy week so I have not been on much. That changes Friday for the foreseeable future.

    Last night Jeter was just awful defensively. Little leaguers get yelled at for blowing a run down and the give away of an out on the Encarnacion grounder was inexplicable. So too was Solarte posing for animal crackers on that play instead of covering third.

    It should have been a scoreless inning.

    Amazing how upbeat things seemed after winning four straight and how dismally they’ve turned by losing four in a row. I’m amazed they haven’t done something personnel-wise.

  13. Yankee Trader June 25th, 2014 at 9:44 am

    Time to go. My thoughts are all on the previous post.

    Have a great day.

  14. longtimefan June 25th, 2014 at 9:45 am

    When most fans saw this team coming out of Spring Training there was immediate concern regarding the infield, if fans can see these problems coaching and management does as well.
    This entire organization is in need of a major redesign. Putting a 40 yr old SS and an aging 2nd baseman that has only played part of the last 4 years together in just plain stupid, no real 3rd baseman, a huge ? on Texeria and really expecting to win is just crazy. Management knew what they had an chose to go with it and probably won’t make any changes as long as the revenue flow continues, the yankees right now are 4th in MLB attendance abd thats all this ownership really cares about.

  15. Hassey June 25th, 2014 at 9:46 am

    and while they’re at it, get rid of these jackwagons in the radio booth

  16. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Take Chase Headley off of the potential trade list <IThird baseman Chase Headley will be coping with a herniated disc for the rest of the season, reports Jeff Sanders of the San Diego Union-Tribune (via Twitter). Surgery could ultimately be required, says Sanders, though it will take six to eight weeks to see if the issue will resolve itself

  17. Hassey June 25th, 2014 at 9:49 am

    every time an ump rubs up a new ball, it’s sponsored by someone
    every time the third person in the third row of the third deck gets up to pee, it’s sponsored by someone
    everytime a plane flies east overhead on a day beginning with “T” while everyone stands on one foot and bows east, it’s sponsored by someone
    all of this stuff on the radio and the field is really insulting to our intelligence and loyalty
    I’d love to hear about the demographic that actually enjoys listening to John and Suzyn – it must be Michael Keaton’s Dream Team

  18. Uncle_Game June 25th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    My goodness this is the most depressing place i’ve ever seen its always negativity. u guys are always saying the seasons over and how this team is terrible but at the end of the day ur all gonna come back to watch the next game. Because on the inside, u all have hope that they’ll turn it around and become a playoff team.

  19. SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    “Girardi getting testy when Ken Davidoff asked him if he has given any thought to juggling the lineup. His bottom line is that his players will play up to their averages and he’s going to stay the course – that’s quite disheartening.

    What’s disheartening are some baseball fans thinking the lineup order makes that much difference when in reality it doesn’t.

  20. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    Shame –

    I think there are three things that just kill player morale on the field:

    1. When the team fights and claws back into a game offensively, ties the score or goes ahead and then the pitcher promptly gives back the lead to the other team.

    2. Pitcher is working out of a tough situation and his defense looks like the Marx Brothers behind him.

    3. Double play when you have a potential big inning staring you in the face.

  21. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 9:54 am

    SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    “Girardi getting testy when Ken Davidoff asked him if he has given any thought to juggling the lineup. His bottom line is that his players will play up to their averages and he’s going to stay the course – that’s quite disheartening.

    What’s disheartening are some baseball fans thinking the lineup order makes that much difference when in reality it doesn’t.
    —————————–

    I don’t think the answer is in moving Jeter down in the lineup – what’s disheartening is Joe’s belief that guys like Brian Roberts or Alfonso Soriano or even Jeter can play up to the levels they did when they were setting those career averages.

  22. Hassey June 25th, 2014 at 9:55 am

    Have any of you read about the actual surgery that Prince Fielder had and that Chase Headley might need to have? Sounds frightening but apparently good surgeons consider it a snap – almost a commodity – http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/PE-ACDF.htm

  23. SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:55 am

    “I’ll admit, when Tanaka’s not pitching this team is not one that I feel compelled to run home and watch.”

    I do. Most fans do. They like to watch and root for their team whether they’re having a good year or not. Baseball is enjoyable, the struggle is enjoyable. But to each their own I guess.

  24. Uncle_Game June 25th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    What’s disheartening are some baseball fans thinking the lineup order makes that much difference when in reality it doesn’t.

    So what ur saying is ……
    Mccann
    Derek jeter
    Roberts
    K. Johnson
    Gardner
    beltran
    ellsbury
    Tex

    Wouldnt make a difference??

  25. SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    “I don’t think the answer is in moving Jeter down in the lineup – what’s disheartening is Joe’s belief that guys like Brian Roberts or Alfonso Soriano or even Jeter can play up to the levels they did when they were setting those career averages.”

    It’s not about that Chip. What would you have Girardi say publicly? Would that do the players involved any good if they heard their manager not support them to the press? Girardi plays the team that he is given that’s what managers do. He has to publicly support them and believe in them that’s his job. He would completely lose the team in every way, including the respect if he did anything else.

  26. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:55 am

    “I’ll admit, when Tanaka’s not pitching this team is not one that I feel compelled to run home and watch.”

    I do. Most fans do. They like to watch and root for their team whether they’re having a good year or not. Baseball is enjoyable, the struggle is enjoyable. But to each their own I guess.
    ——————————

    Baseball is enjoyable – painfully slow and poorly played baseball is not. At least not for me. I don’t mind losing, I mind bad and predictable losing. Last night’s game, for example, was interesting. The night before – not so much.

  27. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 10:00 am

    SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    “I don’t think the answer is in moving Jeter down in the lineup – what’s disheartening is Joe’s belief that guys like Brian Roberts or Alfonso Soriano or even Jeter can play up to the levels they did when they were setting those career averages.”

    It’s not about that Chip. What would you have Girardi say publicly? Would that do the players involved any good if they heard their manager not support them to the press? Girardi plays the team that he is given that’s what managers do. He has to publicly support them and believe in them that’s his job. He would completely lose the team in every way, including the respect if he did anything else.
    ——————

    If he’s just paying it lipservice that’s one thing – I’ve said before I would expect him to publicly defend his players. My concern is whether or not he actually believes it.

  28. SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 10:01 am

    Uncle game I’m not going to engage in an absurd discussion. It’s about whether or not to move a couple of players up or down in the order. I think the order in which players hit is not all that important in the greater scheme of things.

  29. SweetSpot June 25th, 2014 at 10:05 am

    “If he’s just paying it lipservice that’s one thing – I’ve said before I would expect him to publicly defend his players. My concern is whether or not he actually believes it.”

    I’ve said all along here that most fans do not know what goes on behind closed doors. This of course includes conversations, private ones, that Cashman Gerardi have. The bottom line to me is that Girardi has to play the team he is given. To make assumptions about what he thinks is totally irrelevant. But really that having been said, what choice does he have except to believe that Soriano will have a good second-half and McCann will do the same?

    I assure you Girardi would be thrilled if management and Cashman went out and got some 25-year-old .300 hitters, and a few 15 game winners.

  30. Uncle_Game June 25th, 2014 at 10:09 am

    I assure you Girardi would be thrilled if management and Cashman went out and got some 25-year-old .300 hitters, and a few 15 game winners.

    Ya guess what … so would any manager. But those young .300 hitters, they dont “grow on trees”. Maybe Ref Snyder is one tho.

  31. Tar June 25th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Fact is this team has not been well run for years. Unfortunately It’s systemic. All facets seem to be screwed up. Did it start with building a mall, instead of a shrine to baseball? Anyway theyhave tried to shift the baseline from what the Yankees have always been, to some middle of the pack franchise. It’s not working and if they haven’t realized it yet…. They will.

    Was it Cashmoney who coined the phrase “every loss is a win”? I know Randy (who almost always seems to be way ahead of everybody here at LoHud…myself included) felt that way last year. Maybe it’s time to jump on that bandwagon? But what about Jete ? Enough rambling have a good day everyone.

  32. Captain Clutch June 25th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Cashman is getting exactly what he deserves with the infield. Did he really think that putting together a bunch of crap was going to equal gold?! I mean seriously. The infield defense is an absolute joke and the offense is just as bad. I would call up Refsnyder and Pirela and see what they can do. They can’t be any worse than the washed up guys that they are sending out there now.

  33. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Sweetspot – the problem is that his actions suggest he might actually believe that guys like Soriano, Ichiro and Roberts are the solution.

    He was given an opportunity to take an extended look at Zoilo Almonte, a kid with all kinds of power and instead he kept running Ichiro and Soriano out there.

    He’s had the opportunity to sit Roberts who can’t hit or field and play either Solarte or KJ at 2b and hasn’t done it.

    I’m not touting Almonte, Solarte, Johnson or even Pirela, Adonis Garcia or Kyle Roller as world-beaters or even long-term major leaguers. What I’m saying is that their potential is better than the status quo.

  34. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    I watch every game because I have been a fan for over 50 years. I love the team and the game. However, watching them not score and play poorly is not fun. It is frustrating especially since it didn’t need to be this way.

    What is equally aggravating is the unwillingness to try something different. Almonte, for example, may or may not hit, but he has some needed power. Soriano can’t hit and Ichiro produces no runs. Yet, they cover their eyes and hope. I do that too but I have no ability to make changes.

  35. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 10:27 am

    Tar:

    Removing Cashman does nothing. Not if he’s replaced by someone from within the organization.

    I agree with you that the last two seasons have been the results of systemic problems throughout the organization:

    Poor drafting
    Poor scouting of free agents, trade targets, international players and their own internal resources
    Poor development (where would this team be if they hadn’t screwed up so badly with Hughes, Joba and Betances)
    Poor work by the training staff
    The ridiculous policy to not extend player contracts
    Lack of accountability for the failures in any of the above categories (consider Damon Oppenheimer who has been running the Yankee drafts since 2005, in that time his top picks have been: CJ Henry, IPK, Andrew Brackman, Gerrit Cole, Jeremy Bleich, Slade Heathcott, Cito Culver, Dante Bichette, Ty Hensley, Eric Jagiello. The only ones who are in the majors are on other teams.)

    The problem is that if you simply remove Cashman and elevate someone else while leaving Levine in charge – none of that changes.

    If you want to make drastic improvements within the organization you have to start from the top down and make holistic changes. Cashman and Levine are still operating like it’s the mid-90s. Where you could wait for a great player to reach arbitration or free agency and price himself out of his current team’s plans. That’s not the case anymore. Added revenue in the sport and smarter GMs are making it so that the best players are locked up before ever going to arbitration and that those deals eat up the first few years of their free agency status.

    You need a Team President who can operate under this system, someone who will put in place the right people to help build a successful and productive farm system. Every year it seems like Yankee prospects get to AA and vanish and you have to get excited about a new crop of 16 – 18 year olds who look great playing in the Sally League or Florida State League and then they vanish in AA too. This has to change.

  36. Captain Clutch June 25th, 2014 at 10:31 am

    Unfortunately Cashman is probably going to wait too long to make some moves. It’s really amazing that they send Roberts out there everyday considering how bad he has been. It’s like Cashman and Girardi are just waiting for him to magically turn into the player that he was 10 years. Their love affair with old washed up guys is absolutely ridiculous.

  37. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 10:44 am

    I suppose after last night’s ugly performance it’s understandable, but it seems from this headline, once again way too much emphasis is being placed on this team’s seemingly poor defense.

    The Yanks are a .500 team right? So let’s take a look at numbers that actually matter. The Yanks are 8th in the American League in ERA. Perfectly average. And they are 12th in the American League in runs scored. That’s not average. That’s bottom third. I mean, there’s only three teams worse and two are in last place and other is Boston. And the Yanks are in the bottom third in OPS and most other important offensive stats.

    So how does a team with average pitching and well below average hitting manage to win half their games? Maybe the defense has been an asset after all? Haha, doubtful. The Yanks are 9th in the league in errors.

    Oh, I know folks will say all the missed outs have hurt the team’s pitching and maybe that’s true. But I’m pretty sure the team’s pathetic offense has hurt the team’s pitching a hell of a lot more.

    So basically what I’ve been saying all year is true. The glove is for show but you hit and pitch for dough.

  38. NYY fan in NH June 25th, 2014 at 10:48 am

    I love Jeter but i’m looking forward to this retirement so this team can move on. I almost think he’s half retired with some of the bonehead plays i’ve seen this season. Is his mind totally in the game right now??

  39. mick June 25th, 2014 at 10:49 am

    “Girardi getting testy when Ken Davidoff asked him if he has given any thought to juggling the lineup. His bottom line is that his players will play up to their averages and he’s going to stay the course – that’s quite disheartening.
    ======================================
    Can you provide the link to this?
    I engaged Chad in this discussion the other day.
    Why is this topic so taboo?
    I understand it’s not something Girardi wants to talk about but most fans do want to know if Jeter is getting preferential treatment.

  40. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 10:51 am

    Mick – no link to the actual interview but here’s Davidoff’s column: http://nypost.com/2014/06/24/y.....e-2-hasty/

  41. mick June 25th, 2014 at 10:52 am

    austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 10:12 am

    I watch every game because I have been a fan for over 50 years. I love the team and the game. However, watching them not score and play poorly is not fun. It is frustrating especially since it didn’t need to be this way.
    =================
    Mac-
    I don’t know how you watch but my advice is to leave the room occasionally, miss a few innings here and there, go to the computer and type something here, keep it loud enough to hear.

  42. mick June 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    Thanks Chip.

  43. NYY fan in NH June 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    You can say that this years team is worse than last year outside of Tanaka and Dellin. They spent all this money for guys who spend more time on the DL. So many holes to fill and not enough prospects to get the players they need. They are an abysmal team right now in every aspect!

  44. blake June 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    The more this plays out…..the more clear it becomes that the Yanks were a bit foolish to think they could fix all of their problems in one offseason.

    They should have gotten under the cap…..kept their draft picks….and signed Tanaka and Cano only.

    They’d be in much better shape both finanically and for the future player wise.

    Instead they bloated the payroll even further…..gave away a good shot at acquiring an impact prospect in the draft and really didn’t improve on the field that much.

    At this point they are going to need to continue to spend money if they want to win…..this team has turned into a money pit house that they are gonna just have to continue to feed in order to keep it upright……at some point they need to wrecking ball it all as start over

  45. 86w183 June 25th, 2014 at 10:57 am

    It is getting harder to be optimistic about this team. A lineup loaded with guys well below .250 is a major problem and there’s no two ways about it.

    I don’t think there’s really any question that infield defense IS a major issue for this team. It drives up pitch counts for starters and relievers and it adds to the challenges facing an already offensively challenged team.

    bigdan22 — You have made a huge issue of trying to downgrade the importance, but when teams are average pitching and below average hitting defense becomes MORE important, not less. Bad defense handed Toronto four of its seven runs and they won 7-6.

  46. mick June 25th, 2014 at 10:58 am

    OK-I just read 1/2 of the Davidoff article and say this: This is not about Jeter being a better #2 hitter than Gardner.

    This is about not batting Ellsbury leadoff. One can see he is not a #3 hitter. He was brought here to be the leadoff man. Why isn’t he? This is hurting the team. You have the perfect #2 man is Gardner to have long AB’s with Ellsbury on 1st, driving the pitcher nuts and his pitch count up.

    Both Girardi and Jeter are hurting their legacies as this is not about putting team 1st.
    Jeter is not the best #2 hitter they have. It disrupts the lineup.

  47. BIG AL June 25th, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Several folks here wrote very early, this IF defense would cost the team several games, and by now it appears they were correct.

    Beltran 3/4 years too late, and it appears the Braves were right in letting McCann walk.

    I could not invision this year being as bad or worse than last, but, it does appear this is how it will play out.

  48. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    I agree with Chip, it’s the predictable losing that’s hard to watch.

    The team is still in it as a result of the AL East being mediocre (along with the rest of baseball). So we’re going to keep watching and hoping something clicks… but the problem is no one aspect of this team is reliable.

    Tanaka doesn’t count as an ‘aspect’ unfortunately.

    We aren’t particularly good at pitching, offense, or defense…

  49. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    Can anyone pull data on how our BP ranks against other MLB clubs? Or point me in the right direction?

  50. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    blake June 25th, 2014 at 10:53 am

    The more this plays out…..the more clear it becomes that the Yanks were a bit foolish to think they could fix all of their problems in one offseason.
    —————————

    I don’t think the Yankees thought they could fix all their problems in one offseason. I think fans expected them to be able to fix all their problems in one offseason.

  51. pkyankfan69 June 25th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Some Norwegian guy bet $5 that Luis Suarez would bite someone during the World Cup… One bite later the guy won over $900… Pretty nice return… I need to start gambling more

    http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-wor.....arezs-bite

  52. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    “You can shuffle every day,” a testy Girardi said Tuesday, in response to a question I asked. “Who do you want me to shuffle?”

    I told the Yankees’ manager I had nothing for him, after looking through the numbers. I thought maybe he would have something, given he makes more money than I do.

    “We’ll stick with it,” Girardi said, chortling.
    ==============================
    There is no need for this.
    Why won’t anyone suggest the Ellsbury-Gardner 1-2 in lineup as a solution and see what Joe says?
    He’s tried it before and it worked…

  53. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    Blake –

    As for the draft picks, I think the Yankees looked at it this way:

    Give away the draft picks then load up on pitchers with the picks they have left and dominate the international market for hitters to make up for the picks that they sacrificed.

  54. 86w183 June 25th, 2014 at 11:05 am

    blake — we agree on this one — spend a bundle or gut it and rebuild. It’s high time the Yanks choose one approach and stay with it. Personally I hope they decide to spend and go get some talent.

    To try and improve for the rest of the current season the # 1 priority for me would be a 3B with RH power followed by a starting pitcher and then a RF.

    If Texas decides to sell off I’d be in on Beltre and Rios.

  55. NYY_Girl_Penny June 25th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    i love this team. The 2014 NYY are great ! We also have the best manager in all of baseball ! Also, oir owners are probably the best too!

    “just trying some reverse mojo today” :)

    I like ham.

  56. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    I just mean focusing on the Yanks’ defense when the offense is so poor is like giving your car a new paint job when the engine mount is cracked. I’m sure the car will look better with a new paint job but it ain’t going anywhere for people to see.

    Just set aside for a minute the Yanks’ actual pitching and defense and ask yourself, just how many games is a team supposed to win when they rank 12th out of 15 teams in scoring? If the Yanks fielded a team of Hall of Fame pitchers and the best glove men around, could you really expect them to win more than half their games when they are near the bottom in scoring?

    I think it’s pretty much a miracle the Yanks have the record they have.

  57. Uncle_Game June 25th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    Look, fellas..The Yankees can be good..They just Gotta play up to there potential. And they can get David Price too for the best #1 and #2 in MLB..I gotta say Sanchez O’Brian Clarkin and Zoilo can get it done With tampa.

  58. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 11:08 am

    Also, I do believe the Yankees will hit the free agent market hard this winter.

    Hal has seen how much being irrelevant in August and September and dark in October costs – he’s probably going to see it again this year. And that’s with the farewell tributes to two iconic Yankees. Next year, if this team is uninteresting again then there’s no drawing card to even slightly bail them out – they might see a small boost getting Alex back and on the days Tanaka pitches but other than that….

    I think they will go hard after an impact pitcher and infielder.

  59. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 11:08 am

    later folks.

  60. NYY_Girl_Penny June 25th, 2014 at 11:08 am

    mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:04 am
    “You can shuffle every day,” a testy Girardi said Tuesday, in response to a question I asked. “Who do you want me to shuffle?”

    I told the Yankees’ manager I had nothing for him, after looking through the numbers. I thought maybe he would have something, given he makes more money than I do.

    “We’ll stick with it,” Girardi said, chortling.
    ==============================
    There is no need for this.
    Why won’t anyone suggest the Ellsbury-Gardner 1-2 in lineup as a solution and see what Joe says?
    He’s tried it before and it worked…

    ———

    The truth is Girardi really has nothing to shuffle.. what’s he going to do replace 1 under-performing player with another ?

    I do agree that Gardner/Ellsbury is the obvious choice but there’s just know quick fix for this team even if you did that.

  61. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:12 am

    The Yanks need something to shake this team up, to wake them up.
    They rallied around the Capt last night and he led the way with that HR down 6-0 right after his 2 misplays that cost them 3 runs the inning before.
    They will rally around him again when they try Ellsbury and Gardner up 1-2.
    There is nothing to lose.
    Let them have a good week or 2 and no one will notice Jeter has been dropped.
    Let’s not pretend this is about Girardi believing it’s best for the team to leave him 2nd.
    Joe doesn’t appear to be a disingenuous man but I believe he is in this instance.
    He is putting the player above the team here and that is wrong.

  62. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:13 am

    I do agree that Gardner/Ellsbury is the obvious choice but there’s just know quick fix for this team even if you did that.
    =================
    Ellsbury-Gardner.

  63. pkyankfan69 June 25th, 2014 at 11:15 am

    This little Marlins fan will brighten your morning after another lousy loss

    https://vine.co/v/MtZ2xhIjDPe

  64. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:16 am

    What’s disheartening are some baseball fans thinking the lineup order makes that much difference when in reality it doesn’t.

    Actually it does, it just doesn’t make enough of a difference to turn a bad team into a good team. But it provides marginal upgrades in terms of runs scored that can help a team like the Yankees who are struggling.

    Where you bat hitters in the lineup determines how many plate appearances they receive over the course of a full season. If you batted your worst hitter first and your best hitter 9th you would be giving 140 more plate appearances to your worst hitter and denying 140 plate appearances to your best hitter over the full season.

    That means, if your best hitter was Jose Abreu, who homers ever 11 ABs, and walks 5% of the time, who would be missing out on ~120 AB probably after sacrifices/hbp/walks, you would be giving up 11 HRs just by your stupid decision to bat him 9th.

    Thus you’d be missing out on a minimum of 11 runs over the course of the year, not counting any runners on base, which is a full win. Now think about this over the course all your hitters. Think about the ‘flow’ of the lineup, how you want your offense to score, and that scoring generally comes from putting your best OBP’s together in the lineup (which is why you want 1-5 to be your best hitters), and now think about the Yankees putting their worst hitters in these spots.

    In conclusion, you are wrong.

  65. Hankflorida June 25th, 2014 at 11:19 am

    I have seen small ball teams win with pitching and even when they only had two dominant pitchers. Koufax and Drysdale won very low scoring games and so did Spahn and Sain. Whitley, Phelps , Nuno or CC are not going to do it as this offense cannot generate enough runs to overcome their ERA’s. What have the Yankees got to lose taking Betances out of the bullpen as a one two punch with Tanaka. Betances as a starter can make them a contender or fail while taking the pen down quickly, but going along with the pitching without another dominant starter is a slow death with no hope in sight.

  66. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:21 am

    To say the lineup isn’t effected by who bats where is ludicrous.
    This originally was spun that Ellsbury was batting 3rd till Beltran got back.
    Well heeee’s back….
    Kudos to Davidoff for asking the question, maybe next time they suggest Ellsbury batting leadoff where he will be for the rest of his contract at some point in time.
    Gardner up 2nd is a no brainer.

    This should not be a throwaway year.
    Jeter’s skills might be declining but his mental judgment is a result of him not being in the game, which was always his greatest intangible.
    Last night it happened twice in the same inning.
    When will that not be good enough?

  67. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:21 am

    The lineup matters less the closer in skill all your batters are. So the 2009 yankees would have scored a bunch of runs regardless of how their lineup is situated, but as your lineup beings more stratified in terms of good hitters and bad hitters your lineup matters more.

    And more importantly, the 2 spots is one of the best spots in the lineup and putting a bad hitter like Jeter in there hurts more than say the difference between hitting him 6th and 7th.

  68. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:25 am

    The next question is why isn’t Jeter’s head in the game?
    We as fans can ask that question or , at least posit the idea.
    Reporters would be hard pressed to bring it up to the man.
    I don’t blame them.
    Who wants to get derided by Jeter, Girardi is bad enough.

    Maybe Jeter knows he is hurting the team and wants to be dropped, at least for now.
    See if something else works.
    He is a team player after all…

  69. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Oh, I know folks will say all the missed outs have hurt the team’s pitching and maybe that’s true. But I’m pretty sure the team’s pathetic offense has hurt the team’s pitching a hell of a lot more.

    ————–

    You keep repeating this even though no one argues that you’re wrong about the other aspects of the game being more important. I’m not sure why. We all agree with you.

  70. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Being just a fan of baseball in general… I really hate seeing such poor play in the field. Defense is a basic fundamental. It’s sloppy and one of those things our team should be better at.

  71. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    JF

    You cannot just throw any lineup out there but you know that.
    The 2009lineup with 3 power hitters at the top would not have worked even if they got more AB’s as you say.

  72. Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    This team is as good as it is due to Tanaka, a great bullpen and spectacular outfield defense (with Ichiro in RF).

    On this team there’s just not enough difference between the good hitters and the bad hitters to worry about the lineup, IMO.

  73. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:35 am

    You cannot just throw any lineup out there but you know that.
    The 2009lineup with 3 power hitters at the top would not have worked even if they got more AB’s as you say.

    The entire lineup was power hitters in 2009. They all had great on base percentages. There was not 1 guy, except maybe Melky or Gardner whom rarely played at the same time, that you would not have hit at the top of the order for another team. So I think that 2009 is the exception, because everyone was good.

    To your point the runs scored would not have been the same, but I don’t think it would have made as big a difference just because of how good everyone was.

    There is still an ‘optimal’ batting order for any team, which scores the most amount of runs possible. The trick is to get as close to it as possible.

  74. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:37 am

    On this team there’s just not enough difference between the good hitters and the bad hitters to worry about the lineup, IMO.
    ========================
    But wouldn’t you want to see Ellsbury in the leadoff role he was brought here for?
    Wouldn’t you think the 1st inning pitch count would be brought up with a patient Grdner up 2nd?
    It might just happen in the 1st inning, but it is guaranteed.

  75. pkyankfan69 June 25th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    It’s too bad we didn’t trade Cano to the Rangers last year… We could have potentially given him back to the Rangers for Beltre this year. Though on second thought, after we acquired the prospect for Cano he probably would have gotten hurt or started to suck immediately after the trade.

  76. mick June 25th, 2014 at 11:39 am

    I agree on the optimal batting order premise.
    Jeter and Damon were not power hitters in 2009 and where instrumental in where they hit.

  77. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:41 am

    I really disagree WYH.

    The OBP of Gardner, Ellsbury, & Tex are so far above everyone else that they HAVE to be hitting together in the lineup. They really do need another bat or two though right now. Solarte returning to nobody status has hurt… a lot.

  78. Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2014 at 11:41 am

    mick-

    Sure, but it’s basically just fooling around at the margins.

  79. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Sure, but it’s basically just fooling around at the margins.

    —————–

    Marginal upgrades are all we can hope for, though.

  80. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Sure, but it’s basically just fooling around at the margins.

    Which is definitely something the yankees should be doing! Every run gained counts. Its like cleaning up a big messy room. You can do it all at once but hardly anyone has the stomach for that, but if you do a little here and a little there soon you have a clean room. The Yankees are a mess, to the margins first!

  81. Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2014 at 11:46 am

    JF-

    Those three are hitting together, basically. Yeah Jeter separates them but that’s just one bat. Ellsbury and Tex aren’t losing many at bats by being pushed one notch lower in the batting order. The marginal benefits of one spot in the batting order might easily be overwhelmed by the disruptive effects on the team (I’m not a big believer in that generally, but at the margins I’ll defer to Girardi) of moving Jeter down.

  82. pkyankfan69 June 25th, 2014 at 11:49 am

    2014 Bizzaro Yankees

    CF – Gardner
    RF – Puig
    2B – Cano
    DH – Jose Abreu
    LF – Cespedes
    1B -Tex
    C – McCann
    3B – Oprah
    SS – Jeter

    Darvish – Tanaka – Kuroda – Kazmir – Phelps

    Chapman – Uehara – Drob – Betances – Warren – Kelley – Bubby Brister

  83. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 11:50 am

    Those three are hitting together, basically. Yeah Jeter separates them but that’s just one bat. Ellsbury and Tex aren’t losing many at bats by being pushed one notch lower in the batting order. The marginal benefits of one spot in the batting order might easily be overwhelmed by the disruptive effects on the team (I’m not a big believer in that generally, but at the margins I’ll defer to Girardi) of moving Jeter down.

    Yea but the 2 hole is one of the most important, and putting Jeter between those 3 is a big deal because once the lineup loops around you’re getting into situations where Jeter is ending an inning or beginning one.

    Betances threw 45 pitches last night, maybe they are stretching him out? :)

  84. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 11:52 am

    One batting order premise I have is neither Ichiro nor Soriano should be in it. In 156 plate appearances, Ichiro has four doubles and the rest singles. He has scored 17 runs and driven in 10. His lack of power makes Jeter look like Mark McGuire. He is a 4th or 5th outfielder. Soriano should be released.

    Right field is undoubtedly the worst offense in the AL. We already know the DH is statistically the worst. Add that to the infield woes. Tell me how this is going to improve. Please.

  85. 86w183 June 25th, 2014 at 11:53 am

    Get serious —-

    Oprah has less range than Jeter and Bubby Brister lost his fastball years ago

  86. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 11:56 am

    Dan,

    Did the defense make a difference yesterday?

    Go ahead. You can admit it.

    No one has ever said a good defense would make this a good team. What has been said is a bad defense on top of no offense and poor starting pitching is another nail in the season’s coffin.

    Make no mistake if I had the choice between a good hitting or good fielding 2B or 3B, I would take the offense. Now, we get neither.

  87. Madrugador June 25th, 2014 at 11:58 am

    I am guessing the 45 pitches last night was Girardi’s hold Toronto scoreless and win the game. Betances had two walks last night, no?

    Was at the Phils-Marlins game last night.
    Casey McGehee was hitting fourth for the Marlins!? I think the guy spent 2013 over in Japan and now he is hitting .309 albeit without any power Slg .390. A bargain that would have been nice to have at $1.1M- plays first and third if I recall correctly.

    My first time seeing Stanton play. Now I get it.

  88. Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2014 at 11:59 am

    “One batting order premise I have is neither Ichiro nor Soriano should be in it.”

    Then the Yanks would be playing with 8 guys.

  89. Hankflorida June 25th, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    Adjusting the lineup is like moving the deck chairs on the Titanic as during the the start of the season, Solarte was leading the team in RBI’s batting down in the lineup. Solarte cooled down and no matter where he batted he could not deliver which hurt the team. The problem with this offense is that they do not hit enough home runs and scoring on three hits in a row just one run is different then one swing of the bat delivering three. The lack of power is scoring 640 runs like last year on 144 HR and scoring close to 900 runs on over 200 HR like a few years ago. Cashman set his sights on improving the pitching but took a hit with the injuries to 60% of his staff, so the solution to turning this ship around is to zero in on better pitching. Whitley, Phelps, Nuno or CC will not keep their ERA’s low enough to get us to the 2nd Wildcard.

  90. Uncle_Game June 25th, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    chill out homies we’re still 3 and a half back of the division and only 2 back of the 2nd wildcard we got this

  91. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    Interesting article by IATMS about how being able to see every game, compare every player, turns one into a pessimist http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....pessimist/

    Gotta say I have to agree with the premise. When you can see how bad your team or players are compared to everyone else, and watch every game so absorb every miscue, it changes how you think of the game.

  92. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Then the Yanks would be playing with 8 guys.

    —————–

    Can we bat Gardner twice…?

  93. JimK June 25th, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    Betances threw 45 pitches last night because his control was the worst I have seen from him since early in the year; in many of his previous outings he would go deep into counts but his pitches were basically near the K zone, not so much last night.
    I also noticed in his recent relief appearances he has gone more to his FB, rather than his off speed pitches, which are his K pitch.
    Even when it was obvious last night the Jays were sitting on his FB, he continued to throw it most of the time.

  94. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Actually Betances threw 45 pitches because Girardi let him throw 45 pitches. How he got to 45 pitches is irrelevant to my point :)

    Pitchers only ever throw as many pitches as the manager allows. girardi allowing him to throw 45 was weird.

  95. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    did you want girardi to take betances out? i thought he was giving his team the best chance to win the game. 45 isn’t a problem for a guy who throws multiple innings to me.

  96. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Betances wasn’t the problem last night, regardless of how many pitches he threw.

  97. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Wave,

    If I am not mistaken the team could use other players in RF. However, you may be content with the slugging platoon they have.

  98. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    Kinda blows that Tanaka probably won’t pitch in the All Star game.

    He can’t throw an inning?

  99. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    did you want girardi to take betances out? i thought he was giving his team the best chance to win the game. 45 isn’t a problem for a guy who throws multiple innings to me.

    Of course it wasn’t a problem, I hope Girardi takes it a step further. LEt him go out there for 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 innings at time! He might have to sit for ~4 days inbetween appearances, but maybe we can shift someone to the bullpen to make up for it.

  100. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    name him to the all star team then don’t have him pitch.

    win-win. why would you want your best pitcher’s schedule messed up for an exhibition?

  101. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    New article up–Long impressed with Roberts. Of course he is.

  102. Wave Your Hat June 25th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    austinmac-

    I’m perfectly happy if the Yanks go shopping for another RF. I’m somewhat indifferent as to any internal options.

  103. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    “Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long has been impressed by what Yankees second baseman Brian Roberts brings to the plate”

    Ok this is example A of why the Yankees are in trouble

  104. dan l June 25th, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    The best thing about this crappy team is that hopefully it finally exposes Cashman as a turd GM! With a little more suck he’ll be replaced!

  105. Hankflorida June 25th, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    Betances threw 45 pitches last night, maybe they are stretching him out?

    Jerkface, if that were true, “That would make my day.” Imagine the one two punch of Tanaka and Betances with Warren, Kelley and Robertson ready to hold the shutout. Trying to substitute for eight gloves is difficult enough, but bringing in that one glove on the mound to start instead of finish a game is just a simple task of stretching him out and the dividends could mean a playoff game in October with Betances or Tanaka on the mound.

  106. bruceb June 25th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    You mean Long is actually trying to take credit for a second baseman hitting under .250 who happened to run into one last night?

    The New York Yankees are a multi-billion pound business. In what other business would Cashman and KLong still have jobs? Not that a batting coach does much anyway, apart from draw a rather large paycheck.

  107. Madrugador June 25th, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    If you believe Chad, Cashman is not going anywhere but I think that while the problems with the FO may start with Cashman, they don’t end there.

  108. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Interesting article by IATMS about how being able to see every game, compare every player, turns one into a pessimist http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar…..pessimist/

    ——

    This is a really good take. It fits the theme that information makes people sad.

    I think the premise here is especially true when you are prone to confirmation bias. If you believe that your team’s infield defense is perfectly terrible you just assume every batted ball should result in an out. Not only is that not true but other teams are missing plays probably just as often as your team is.

    I think it’s also really true with hitting with RISP. The box score says your team was 3 for 11, which isn’t really bad but all you’ll remember watching the game is how your team didn’t score with bases loaded and no outs in the 6th. I bet every fan thinks his team sucks with RISP. Except maybe Cardinal fans last year :)

  109. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Not only is that not true but other teams are missing plays probably just as often as your team is.

    Of course we know this isn’t true, as evidenced by defensive efficiency, so no need to even say it!

  110. Madrugador June 25th, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    It is hard to believe the Yankees run their billion dollar business the way they do but then again, you should see how doctors do their billing. Bad management is an epidemic.

  111. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    “Of course we know this isn’t true, as evidenced by defensive efficiency, so no need to even say it!”

    —–

    I totally predicted someone would say this. I was going to address it in my post but sometimes lawyers like to leave that stuff for cross. More effective than direct.

    I think there are more holes in defensive metrics than there are in the Yanks’ infield even on it’s worst day!

  112. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    The best think about KLong might be his son’s right arm.

  113. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    The only true thing you said is that no team makes 100% of the plays in the field. Thats not the issue though. The issue is that the Yankees make many less plays than most teams in baseball.

  114. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    “It is hard to believe the Yankees run their billion dollar business the way they do but then again, you should see how doctors do their billing. Bad management is an epidemic.”

    —–

    That is 100% true. The closer you get to large business operations, the more you realize that size and financial clout does not improve efficiency. Sometimes the effect is the exact opposite.

  115. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    If I had to guess, I think the Yanks are where the are, a couple games over .500. with a well below average offense, because of their bullpen and Girardi’s skill at using it. And of course Tanaka.

    Tanaka is awesome and without the Yanks’ record in his starts the team would be well under .500. The rest of the staff is probably average at best. The defense isn’t great but it looks a lot worse than it is since it’s just not a factor in most games and every team probably drops a couple games like the Yanks did last night over the course of a season.

    And probably the bullpen overall isn’t that great either, but except for Warren’s last couple outings and a couple Drob blown saves, the back three guys have been awesome. Which leads me to Betances because I think he just might be the biggest difference maker on this team. He and Tanaka that is. I think if the Yanks didn’t have either player they’d be about five games under .500 now. I’m not sure WAR sees it that way or not but I don’t trust that metric anyway so whatever. WAR is about as bad as defensive metrics.

  116. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Your 2015 Yankees – as predicted by me so you know it’s wrong :)

    Gardner – LF
    Asdrubal Cabrera – SS
    Ellsbury – CF
    Tex – 1b
    McCann – C
    Beltran – DH
    Alex – 3b
    Colby Rasmus – RF
    Rob Refsnyder – 2b

    Bench: Cevelli, Ryan, Solarte, Jose Pirela

    Rotation:
    Tanaka, Lester, Samardzjia, CC, Pineda

    Bullpen:
    Betances – Closer
    RHP: Kelley, Burawa, Claiborne, Phelps, Pinder
    LHP: Thornton

  117. dan l June 25th, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Chip you are clueless…

  118. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    dan l June 25th, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    Chip you are clueless…
    ——————–

    And you lack imagination, optimism and vision.

  119. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    “Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long has been impressed by what Yankees second baseman Brian Roberts brings to the plate”

    Ok this is example A of why the Yankees are in trouble
    ———————-

    Depends on whether he’s saying it because he believes it or he’s saying it because saying “sure he hit a homerun but let’s be honest, he’s retiring at the end of the season too we’re just not giving him a sendoff” wouldn’t go over well.

  120. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    For what it’s worth Dan – the only part of what I suggested that’s hard to fathom is how the Yankees would trade for JS – the rest of that is clearly plausible.

    In the above scenario I’m offering Theo: JR Murphy, Adam Warren, Jose Ramirez, Brett Marshall and Zoilo Almonte for Samardjzia.

    The rest of it is just money:

    6 years at $25/year for Lester
    4 years at $15/year for Asdrubal and Rasmus

  121. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    Even if defensive metrics are problematic, everyone in baseball is being evaluated on the same scale.

    You don’t look at strike out rates and go, ‘well, the strike zone’s vary so the stats are meaningless’ just because any given ump can evaluate pitches on a different strike zone literally every night.

    Defensive metrics, as most stand now, are comparative. That’s a valuable metrics, even if the data has to be interrogated a bit.

  122. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Ys – I don’t want Tanaka pitching in a meaningless game exactly, but he’s one of the most exciting pitchers in baseball. The ASG sucks, in part, because the best players aren’t playing most of the time.

    Remember when Jeter and Mo opted out and MLB had a fit (because without the Yankees, baseball is pretty dumb).

  123. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    I think that was the one time MLB made a stink about players’ lack of participation, btw. I don’t remember other guys taking nearly as much heat for it.

  124. solaris June 25th, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Maybe Long said he’s impressed with Roberts in a sarcastic tone.

  125. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    If JS goes to the Jays how much better are they..?

  126. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    If JS goes to the Jays how much better are they..?
    —————————

    It clearly depends on what they give up for him, but in a vacuum? lots.

  127. Barry June 25th, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    I think all of the comments regarding last night’s loss are missing the point and groping too far afield. The game was lost for two reasons: Solarte should have been covering third base when Jeter looked around, and later Solarte threw the ball away. The offense was fine as was Jeter, and add Brian Roberts to the plus side. Phelps, not so good. They came back from a significant deficit, and the youngest, weakest player, blew it. Just baseball.

  128. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    i dont watch the ASG so i never want yankees to pitch in it. I take a 4 day vacation from baseball myself.

  129. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    isn’t it time to give solarte a rest and try someone else for a while?

  130. mick June 25th, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Barry,
    There was no way that play happens at 3rd.
    Solarte was playing deep and Jeter should have went to 1st as that was the play.

    His 2nd error (mental again) was not flipping it to Tex in the rundown for that 3rd run which cost them the game.

  131. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    “In the above scenario I’m offering Theo: JR Murphy, Adam Warren, Jose Ramirez, Brett Marshall and Zoilo Almonte for Samardjzia.”

    —–

    I don’t think this is enough. The last three are basically throw-ins. Murphy and Warren are real but I think you need one more real piece.

    I was thinking what three real pieces can the Yanks give up? Murphy yes. Warren, likewise yes. Perhaps Severino.

    I think Severino, despite the fact that he’s only an A level pitcher, could be the real deal and could have some significant value. To me, he’s clearly the best Yankee prospect below AAA. Way better than Judge or Sanchez at least at this time.

    So the question then is, what could the Yanks get in this market with those three? A good to excellent relief pitcher who can help you right now and who may also be a good backend cost controlled starter, a real young catcher, also cost controlled who can start now and may hit above average for a catcher, and an A ball pitcher who has all the right stuff and looks about as good as an A ball pitcher can look. You can throw in pretty much any of the other guys in the system as 4th or 5th pieces except Judge and Sanchez and of course Refs.

    Would that be enough for Shark or Price?

  132. blake June 25th, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    The word that best describes the 2014 Yankees is: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  133. mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    The word that best describes the 2014 Yankees is: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    ================
    IF they were winning , would you still say that?

  134. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    i dont see price or js coming through the door. maybe lee, but there’s no guarantee he’s healthy.

    i expect someone more like kennedy.

  135. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    If JS goes to the Jays how much better are they..?

    does not look as if the he is going to the Jays

    •The Blue Jays are highly unlikely to deal for Cubs hurler Jeff Samardzija, and the clubs have not swapped trade proposals in some time. While a deal centered around pitching prospects Aaron Sanchez and Daniel Norris has been floated in the media, a source tells Heyman that there is “zero chance” that Toronto would part with that package.

  136. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    severino needs to pitch more than 100 innings in a season before becoming excited let’s see how he holds up b/c yanks do not have a great track record of keeping those arms on track

  137. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    “i expect someone more like kennedy.”

    here are some others on the rental market according to heyman

    the “rental” market, says Heyman. But with many teams still waiting to see how they perform over the next month, the supply remains uncertain. Heyman cites Justin Masterson (Indians), Jorge De La Rosa (Rockies), Francisco Liriano (Pirates), and Jake Peavy (Red Sox) as arms that could join Jason Hammel of the Cubs in that segment of the market.

  138. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    solaris June 25th, 2014 at 1:21 pm
    Maybe Long said he’s impressed with Roberts in a sarcastic tone.

    i applaud you for being so optimistic

  139. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    The word that best describes the 2014 Yankees is: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    ================
    IF they were winning , would you still say that?

    —–

    Many of us already had tempered expectations before the season began so their play up to this point is anything but surprising.

  140. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    yes, that’s more like the market i see the yankees in.

    i think to get the big fish, you need a big prospect name. jr murphy and adam warren are not going to do it, you’d have to include sanchez and probably betances.

  141. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:10 pm
    yes, that’s more like the market i see the yankees in.

    i think to get the big fish, you need a big prospect name. jr murphy and adam warren are not going to do it, you’d have to include sanchez and probably betances.

    agree sanchez has hit better of late since his benching and naturally betances would be a big draw given that he is mlb ready/producing and under control for five more years

  142. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    i didnt see much ‘tempered expectations’ on the predictions sheet.

    the average pick must have been over 90 wins.

  143. Barry June 25th, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    Mick,
    Agreed on your points but they are not the reason for the loss.

  144. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    Judge and Severino provide a good example of how hitters and pitchers need to be judged differently when they are prospects in the low minors.

    Leaving production totally aside (or rather assuming both are putting up good numbers), you can’t look at Judge’s swing right now and say he can hit ML pitching. You can’t even say he can hit AA pitching with any level of confidence. But it’s possible to look at Severino’s three pitches now and say, this young man will get major league hitters out with that kind of stuff. And, that kind of stuff usually gets better, especially in terms of command, as the pitcher gets older. Now you still can’t say with any certainty if Severino will be a successful ML pitcher. You can’t even say he’ll be a starter as opposed to a relief pitcher. But you can say he should be able to get ML hitters out. And conversely, you can’t say Judge will hit ML pitching.

    But there’s another real important difference between Judge and Severino as well. While you can say Severino will be able you get major leaguers out when he gets to the major leagues, you can’t say he will ever be healthy enough to get there. And after he goes through a couple somewhat routine pitcher injuries, you can’t say his stuff will be as good as it is right now (Banuelos?).

    So projecting real good A ball pitchers and hitters are two completely different matters. But of the two, I still like Severino better. By quite a bit.

  145. blake June 25th, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    “IF they were winning , would you still say that?”

    Of course not…..but that’s like saying if a car wasn’t a piece of junk it would be awesome…..kinda irrelevant

  146. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Ys,

    We all hoped the year would go better, but in some ways it has exceeded expectations. Jeter has played, Roberts has played and Teixiera has played. Each had questionable health. Tanaka has exceeded expectations as has Betances.

    I suggest the infield has been about as good as expected. Beltran and McCann have been worse. CC was always a question, but boy, I hoped for the best.

    As a fan I can afford to be hopeful. As to management, I should hope for realism.

  147. AAA June 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    And you lack imagination, optimism and vision.

    ===========================

    In what way does Asdrubal Cabrera represent any of these three things?

  148. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    Final line on RHP Luis Severino: 6 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 1 BB, 6 K. Unofficially 73 pitches. @TampaYankees lead 9-0 in the 7th.

  149. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    so old friend Nik Turley joins the aaa rotation today RAB says the yanks are holding casting auditions from Mitchell earlier in the week and now Turley coming back from his ST injuries

  150. blake June 25th, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    I thought the Yanks would be better than this I’m not gonna lie…..and I still only picked them for 90 wins…..

    it’s all went wrong more or less …..CC has been awful and hurt…..McCann has been awful, Pineda had been hurt, Nova has been out for the year, Kuroda hasn’t been as good……

    Nothing has went right except Betances and Tanaka

  151. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
    Final line on RHP Luis Severino: 6 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 1 BB, 6 K. Unofficially 73 pitches. @TampaYankees lead 9-0 in the 7th.

    and aaron judge has his third triple in High A ball and has two walks :)

    wanzies,

    what are you hearing now out there? is it still SP, SP, SP? What about that quasi early July deadline when the Yanks return to YS? Will there be a shakeup on the offense internally?

  152. yankinvegas June 25th, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    I will never stop rooting for and watching the Yankees.
    I am 58 and have rooted hard for 51 years. I have seen bad teams, mediocre teams, good teams and great teams. I have watched a last place team in 1966 and one of the handful of greatest teams ever in 1998. I have had the pleasure of following 7 WS winners and 6 WS losers. And rooting for 8 teams that won 100 games. The Red Sox have not done that since 1946.
    Multiple playoff teams. The win over the Mets in 2000 and the choke job in 2004.
    And as long as I live, I wil never forget August 2, 1979.
    I have had many ups and downs in my life, particularly since 2004. I lost my mom a couple of weeks ago.
    And through it all, my love for the New York Yankees has endured and thrived.
    I still have great hopes for this season, but we need some help. It is all on Cashman now.

  153. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    also wanzies

    what have you heard about Bryan Mitchell in AAA? and Turley going there just after limited time in GCL (though he did pitch in aa last year)

  154. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    i think to get the big fish, you need a big prospect name. jr murphy and adam warren are not going to do it, you’d have to include sanchez and probably betances.

    —–

    This could be true. I’ve said for awhile I don’t think the Yanks have more than two high value prospects (Refs and Murphy) so to do a deal for a big name you’ll have to include at least one player from the major league roster. If that player is Betances, such a deal would not make sense because you would not be improving the ML roster.

    At present, Murphy is worth quite a bit more than Sanchez but if a GM likes Sanchez better than Murphy by all means let him have Sanchez. But he can’t have both and neither would he want both.

  155. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Ichiro plays good defense. No doubt, but he is probably the worst run producer of any right fielder in baseball. Soriano probably produces more runs. Ten RBIs. That is remarkable. A right fielder should have at least forty by now. He has only scored 17. Runs win games. He doesn’t produce any with his four extra base hits all year. Again, a remarkable number.

  156. bruceb June 25th, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    As someone posted a few weeks ago, Roberts and Jeter both being healthy all season has been a mortal blow to this team.

    I know that’s akin to heresy on this blog but now that Cano has gone, our infield has to be easily the worst in the AL.

  157. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    I thought the Yanks would be better than this I’m not gonna lie…..and I still only picked them for 90 wins…..

    it’s all went wrong more or less …..CC has been awful and hurt…..McCann has been awful, Pineda had been hurt, Nova has been out for the year, Kuroda hasn’t been as good……

    Nothing has went right except Betances and Tanaka

    the three moments for me to date are Pineda being hurt (thought that was always risky), Nova being done, and Beltran’s injury in Tampa

  158. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Ichiro plays good defense.

    i am interested to see if this dugas kid can take on the ichiro next year as bu of he just draws walks and walks and walks

  159. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Chip,

    For the record, I always appreciate your thoughts on the future.

  160. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    “Final line on RHP Luis Severino: 6 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 1 BB, 6 K. Unofficially 73 pitches. @TampaYankees lead 9-0 in the 7th.”

    —–

    Damn. I hadn’t seen this until after my last few posts building up Severino’s value haha but all of sudden I’ve gotten a little bit smarter.

    I think just from his scouting reports, Severino is about as exciting as it gets when you are talking A ball pitchers. The performance just enhances that.

  161. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    i didnt see much ‘tempered expectations’ on the predictions sheet.

    the average pick must have been over 90 wins.

    —–

    I wasn’t one of them. Found this in the archives…

    Giuseppe Franco February 12th, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    Shame,

    You got it, sister.

    All the “we spent half a gillion dollars to put a championship team on the field” propaganda from the front office and Michael Kay really ignores the fact that they’ve essentially just rearranged the furniture on a sinking ship.

    The entire infield is a disaster waiting to happen and the pen needs more tweaking as well.

  162. AAA June 25th, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    McCann has been awful

    =========================

    Remember the 35 homer talk that came with the optimism of the winter and spring? I never expected anything close to that, but I did expect a .275, 20-25 homer, 80 RBI type. He’s had flashes, but in general he’s has been surprisingly bad.

  163. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Hi Missing,

    Same… SP, SP, SP.

    Scouts are still dispatched, watching.

    Internally, word is they looking for a spot start or two, til they can complete a trade. Callups possible, day-to-day.

    Not much intel available coming from the FO-types. They are in pre-trade lockdown. Any info leaked is akin to a resignation, so you won’t hear any valid “leaks” in the press.

    Something will break very shortly.

    Steve

  164. austinmac June 25th, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    Right field defense may be the least improtant defensive position in baseball. Good defense in the outfield makes up for about 10% of of a right fielder’s value. That is a position of hitting and run production on a decent team.

    Dugas is, at the very best, a 4th or 5th outfielder. He is not going to play center and he has no power at all. He would walk far less in the majors. He is not a consideration to really help the team other than a cheap utility outfielder.

  165. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:33 pm
    Hi Missing,

    Same… SP, SP, SP.

    Scouts are still dispatched, watching.

    Internally, word is they looking for a spot start or two, til they can complete a trade. Callups possible, day-to-day.

    Not much intel available coming from the FO-types. They are in pre-trade lockdown. Any info leaked is akin to a resignation, so you won’t hear any valid “leaks” in the press.

    Something will break very shortly.

    Steve

    thanks wanzies/steve

    always appreciate your feedback/input

  166. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Dugas is, at the very best, a 4th or 5th outfielder. He is not going to play center and he has no power at all. He would walk far less in the majors. He is not a consideration to really help the team other than a cheap utility outfielder.

    but isn’t that ichiro right now i understand we will want to improve RF but i am talking about him as a 4th OF off the bench to draw a key walk in a game and spot start in rf for Beltran next year his obp could be very helpful provided they get more help offensively from Beltran and the IF and catching next year

  167. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    I said this a year ago and I’m saying it again now….

    I really don’t want to see the FO play more games of checkers before the deadline when it’s obvious this is just not a playoff team and be in this very position yet again a year from now.

  168. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    Nice to see Cave with four hits today. He had slowed down a bit but now he’s over .300. I pronounced him the Yanks’ top CF prospect last month over Mason Williams who just keeps sinking lower and lower. But Cave may be getting pushed by Fowler in Charleston. Two years younger and he had another homer last night. He’s supposed to a real CF, faster than Cave and probably more power. A great all-around athlete.

    Talent is def on the rise throughout the entire Yankee organization, despite the lackluster play of the big club.

    Bird heating up again too. He’s probably the best pure hitting prospect in the system.

  169. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    dan -

    Severino and Judge couldn’t have stepped up at a better time for the FO.

    A couple of guys I trust have indicated that one or both of them are the keys to opening up access to the premier trade targets (shocking, right?). Teams that look to build internally, long-term, are drooling over those two.

    Yank? Eh… they are nice trade chips.

    Steve

  170. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    I picked 89 wins, im pretty sure, so I was only slightly less optimistic than the average on here, but 89 is still attainable with a good 2nd half. (50-36 from today)

    unfortunately at this point, i dont anticipate a 2nd half that gets them there.

  171. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    Teams that look to build internally, long-term, are drooling over those two.

    they should

  172. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    I really don’t want to see the FO play more games of checkers before the deadline when it’s obvious this is just not a playoff team and be in this very position yet again a year from now.

    imagine if they took this approach last year would the Rangers have dealt Gallo, Odur, or Sardinas for Cano?

  173. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN 15m
    Fans behind the Rays dugout stood and clapped as David Price came off the field, with 109 pitches, 11 K’s, 1 BB, 8 scoreless innings.

  174. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN 15m
    Fans behind the Rays dugout stood and clapped as David Price came off the field, with 109 pitches, 11 K’s, 1 BB, 8 scoreless innings.

    i am glad the two tampa fans showed up and applauded

    Price not happy with trade talk

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....e-bad-mood

  175. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    Dugas should be trade bait. Like Cervelli. No future with the big club. The big club needs power. Already too many Gardner types.

    But Dugas could have a nice career in major leagues as a high OBP guy, a skill that does transfer to the major leagues. He has a real small strike zone and excellent control of it. That won’t change in the major leagues. He’s very tough to pitch to.

  176. J. Alfred Prufrock June 25th, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    vegas,

    Sorry to hear about you having lost your mom recently. The good news is, you’ll see her again.

    Same for me re Yanks, they have always been there. Born into it through my father’s side of the family. I’m hoping for a bold stroke that doesn’t hurt the team’s future. We’ll see.

  177. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    dan -

    Everyone is trade bait.

    Steve

  178. AAA June 25th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    Price not happy with trade talk

    =========================

    Not happy, eh? Is there an address to send cards and flowers?

  179. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:40 pm
    dan -

    Severino and Judge couldn’t have stepped up at a better time for the FO.

    ——–

    True, but it may pay to wait a year. At least with Severino. If these guys were doing this in AA their value would go through the roof.

    But on second thought, since Trenton is a place that Yankee hitting prospects go to die, maybe it makes more sense to trade him now.

  180. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    I really don’t want to see the FO play more games of checkers before the deadline when it’s obvious this is just not a playoff team and be in this very position yet again a year from now.

    imagine if they took this approach last year would the Rangers have dealt Gallo, Odur, or Sardinas for Cano?

    —-

    What’s even worse is that a year ago I thought they were going to re-sign Cano. Doh.

  181. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:50 pm

    dan -

    Everyone is trade bait

    —–

    That’s true. But some guys fit into a ML plan, like Refsynder. Dugas does not. The coming off season should be all about power.

  182. mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Many of us already had tempered expectations before the season began so their play up to this point is anything but surprising.
    =============================
    My original question, to Blake, was if he would find them boring if they were winning.
    So, does winning or losing define a team’s style of play.

  183. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    “But on second thought, since Trenton is a place that Yankee hitting prospects go to die, maybe it makes more sense to trade him now.”

    ——

    Trade Judge now I mean. Not Severino. If he’s healthy in the Eastern League he’d probably have an ERA of 1.50.

  184. mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Sorry for your loss Mr Vegas.

  185. mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    If Girardi knew how to play small ball he would have have had Gardner steal 2nd and Jeter bunt him to 3rd last night but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO……

  186. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    FWIW, the FO is going to trade whomever they need to get the pieces they need for the short term.

    They have had two outstanding drafts back-to-back, which has gone a long way toward increasing their future inventory stream (along with, of course, the pending IFA signings).

  187. mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    imagine if they took this approach last year would the Rangers have dealt Gallo, Odur, or Sardinas for Cano?
    ======================
    Why would they, there is no guarantee we didn’t ask.

  188. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    “FWIW, the FO is going to trade whomever they need to get the pieces they need for the short term.”

    —-

    If that’s true, that’s a change in philosophy for Cashman. If you look at his trades since he took charge, Cashman doesn’t trade serious minor league assets for short term returns. He has in the past expected a return with some control, like a Pineda or a Granderson.

    Which means virtually any minor leaguer is available for Price or Shark, but not Hammel.

  189. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    mick June 25th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Many of us already had tempered expectations before the season began so their play up to this point is anything but surprising.
    =============================
    My original question, to Blake, was if he would find them boring if they were winning.
    So, does winning or losing define a team’s style of play.

    —–

    I’ll remember that the next time you respond to one of my posts that isn’t addressed to you.

  190. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    dan -

    I didn’t say Cashman; I said FO.

    Harken back to the Soriano trade of last year for an example of how that works.

    Hal wants a championship team, and he’s not afraid to trade away any player.

    Steve

  191. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    Which means virtually any minor leaguer is available for Price or Shark, but not Hammel.

    I’d say that’s a pretty safe assumption.

  192. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    Hal wants a championship team, and he’s not afraid to trade away any player.

    —————-

    I just worry about what type of player they’d target.

    They didn’t exactly set the world on fire at the last deadline. They were probably lucky to get the type of production they did from Soriano.

  193. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    AAA June 25th, 2014 at 2:48 pm
    Price not happy with trade talk

    =========================
    he took it out on the pirates today, 8.1 IP, 11K, 1 ER.

  194. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    Sweeny Murti ? @YankeesWFAN

    “@TYRadioGuy: Final line on RHP Luis Severino: 6 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 1 BB, 6 K. Unofficially 73 pitches. @TampaYankees //Headed to the Futures.

    which is great but I also want to see how his arm holds up will not be fooled again

  195. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    “Hal wants a championship team, and he’s not afraid to trade away any player”

    —–

    Steve you could be totally right, but Hal has shown a very different temperament than his dad. George used to make those types of trades all the time. But we haven’t seen one like that since Cashman and Hal took over the reins.

    Soriano fits the post-George regime. Even though Cash was against giving up Black, Black was never thought of as a serious minor league asset.

    For Judge, Severino, Murphy, or Sanchez to go, the Yanks will expect control back. And I don’t think Refs is being traded for anyone. He’s next year’s starting 2b.

  196. Giuseppe Franco June 25th, 2014 at 3:12 pm

    wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    dan -

    I didn’t say Cashman; I said FO.

    Harken back to the Soriano trade of last year for an example of how that works.

    Hal wants a championship team, and he’s not afraid to trade away any player.

    ——

    That’s awesome. We’ve got a FO that refuses to learn from past mistakes.

    Hal wants a championship team and he’s doing a boffo job trying to construct one.

  197. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    They have had two outstanding drafts back-to-back, which has gone a long way toward increasing their future inventory stream (along with, of course, the pending IFA signings).

    wanzies

    it so true I really paid attention last year with the three picks and judge was just the kind of pick with his talent they have not taken in a bit

    I also like how they went back to back with the 5th round picks in ’12 and ’11 with Bird and Refsnyder

  198. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    Yankees have made prospect laden trades post-George they made one of the more interesting three way trades in recent past

  199. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Severino and Judge couldn’t have stepped up at a better time for the FO.

    wanzies

    agree Judge’s plate discipline for such a tall guy is interesting @ 6’7″ even when he does not have a hit in a game he is drawing those walks he is launching triples in his early Tampa experience

  200. G. Love June 25th, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    wanzies,

    I appreciate your posts a lot, but I’m not sure I buy this “Hal wants a championship team” stuff.

    You don’t go north with Roberts, Johnson, no backup 1b if that’s the case. The infield was hamstrung before the season even began.

    The rotation injuries, outside of relying on Pineda, are out of the team’s control. But the lineup construction and the depth is on Hal and the Yankees.

  201. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    The current regime is high value prospects for control, not rentals.

    And that’s a good thing. I think that’s been more Cashman’s contribution than anybody else.

  202. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    But the lineup construction and the depth is on Hal and the Yankees.

    my only thought is they believed Beltran, McCann, and Soriano would play to their numbers, which they have not they lost that bet so far

  203. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    I’ll remember that the next time you respond to one of my posts that isn’t addressed to you.
    ===============================
    I think you took that wrong and
    would appreciate a reply.

  204. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    Steve you could be totally right, but Hal has shown a very different temperament than his dad. George used to make those types of trades all the time. But we haven’t seen one like that since Cashman and Hal took over the reins.

    Soriano fits the post-George regime. Even though Cash was against giving up Black, Black was never thought of as a serious minor league asset.

    For Judge, Severino, Murphy, or Sanchez to go, the Yanks will expect control back. And I don’t think Refs is being traded for anyone. He’s next year’s starting 2b.

    ———-

    dan -

    Don’t be fooled by Hal’s outward demeanor. He’s bottomline, value driven. We all know what those types look like in the board room.

    Depending on who is available for the package offered, no one is untouchable.

    There are, of course, probabilities attached to various players. That’s too complicated for me…lol.

    Steve

  205. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Why wouldn’t he want a championship, it adds to his bottom line.

    Roberts and Johnson are not the problem.

  206. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    but I’m not sure I buy this “Hal wants a championship team” stuff.

    ————-

    I buy that he’s saying he wants a championship team… I just don’t know that we’ve ever seen him put together one of championship caliber.

    The 2009 team was incredible (and the 2010 team was a very good club). But the core of that club was pre-established. Adding Tex and CC were two great moves that put them over the top. And to some extent you have to credit Hal and the FO for deciding to go the extra mile (it should probably be noted: after a year of missing the playoffs).

    Since that point, however, we’ve gotten a lot of talk about championship caliber clubs without actually having the pieces. I really think we were just a SP away in 2010. We could have also been a very good club in 2011 had the FO made some additions/subtractions. The past two years were just.. not good.

  207. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    “Don’t be fooled by Hal’s outward demeanor. He’s bottomline, value driven. We all know what those types look like in the board room”

    —-

    Haha, so what you are saying is, in the board room he’s more of a “value added” guy as opposed to the “let’s think outside the box” type of guy :)

  208. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    G. Love -

    I think Missing just touched on it… IF (BIG FONT IF) the FA’s had approached their baseball card numbers, the Yanks would have a pretty good lead in the AL Least. It’s still early, and some of the new guys are, quite simply, trying too hard.

    As I posted over the weekend (a little dan-ish of me, sorry), the Old Timers who were around the team got the sense that the new guys were pressing and it shows. Guys like Gossage and Tino can relate, and did spend time with the newer fellas.

    Let’s hope it helps them relax and return to what we all know they can be.

    Steve

  209. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Roberts and Johnson are not the problem.

    They are part of the problem.

    I really dislike people saying that parts of the team which actually suck and could have been avoided are ‘not the problem’. The team has a lot of problems, these after thought players included.

  210. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    Haha, so what you are saying is, in the board room he’s more of a “value added” guy as opposed to the “let’s think outside the box” type of guy :)

    —-

    Corporate assassin is more like it.

  211. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    The team has a lot of problems, these after thought players included.

    they are less of a priority problem for me given the way the team was thought to be constructed a self-confident McCann, a healthy pre-Tampa Beltran, and Soriano of August-Sept 2013 would go a long way not to mention Pineda not going through the tar stuff and then getting injured while suspended and shut down and Nova finally blowing out

  212. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Depending on who is available for the package offered, no one is untouchable.

    ————–

    This rings true to me.. the problem is our system isn’t good enough to land the big fish.

  213. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    Who predicted this team would not hit as of yet?
    Look at the Win Contest predictions that averaged 92-97 wins.
    It seems this OS was akin to the 09 OS as far as FA’s go.
    The loss of pitching , even tho some dispute it, has and will hurt us this season.

  214. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    the problem is our system isn’t good enough to land the big fish.

    I fear this might be true especially with pitching (hence why they are looking for pitching) though it is better than last year (though that is not saying much)

  215. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    I really dislike people saying that parts of the team which actually suck and could have been avoided are ‘not the problem’. The team has a lot of problems, these after thought players included.
    =======================
    what alternatives did they have at ss and 2b?

  216. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    This is where I think young blood can help a bit. When you add young guys to the mix who play with sheer joy and fun, that tends to rub off on the old guys. They remember what it was like when the game was fun for them. And then they relax. And then it just gets contagious.

    I have no idea what it is really like in the Yankee clubhouse, but I’ve always felt Girardi is just wound a little too tight. His demeanor doesn’t feed into players relaxing. And if players can’t relax just a little bit, you never get their best.

  217. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    what alternatives did they have at ss and 2b?
    ===============
    make that 3b and 2b

  218. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    what alternatives did they have at . . . and 2b?

    must-not-go-there-

  219. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    I really dislike people saying that parts of the team which actually suck and could have been avoided are ‘not the problem’. The team has a lot of problems, these after thought players included.

    —————-

    It’s as if each ‘not part of the problem’ guy forms a Megatron-like problem….. a Megatron that looks like Brian Cashman.

  220. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    MC

    want you to know I typed that 3:32 followup before seeing yours.

  221. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    This is where I think young blood can help a bit. When you add young guys to the mix who play with sheer joy and fun, that tends to rub off on the old guys. They remember what it was like when the game was fun for them. And then they relax. And then it just gets contagious.

    I have no idea what it is really like in the Yankee clubhouse, but I’ve always felt Girardi is just wound a little too tight. His demeanor doesn’t feed into players relaxing. And if players can’t relax just a little bit, you never get their best.

    —–

    Dan -

    I’ll repeat what I posted over the weekend.. the other observation that I heard a lot after the OTG was the lack of energy.

    That’s one of the reasons why, if what I hear is true, you’ll see pitching brought in via trade and hitting added via the farm.

    Steve

  222. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:35 pm
    MC

    want you to know I typed that 3:32 followup before seeing yours.

    no it had nothing to do with ss it had to do with who was an alternative 2b option on the fa and I have sworn not to go there I must not in name only will I go there not with my posts that much

  223. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    I’ve only seem Pirela play a couple of times, but he looks like he’s having fun out there. If you look at the Scranton box scores, he tries to steal just about every time he gets on base. And he’s not even very good at it. But he’s playing a game.

    And that’s what this is. A game.

  224. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    forms a Megatron-like problem

    ??

  225. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Could be the Yanks had the foresight to have targeted a SS and 2B as 2015 FA’s or minor league callups, hence no need for long term solutions this year.

  226. J. Alfred Prufrock June 25th, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    “Hal wants a championship team”
    ///

    I’ll buy, as long as we are using the archaic definition of “want”.

  227. Missing Cano June 25th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Could be the Yanks had the foresight to have targeted a SS and 2B as 2015 FA’s or minor league callups, hence no need for long term solutions this year.

    I could see this and kind of thought about it when you see who is potentially available in 2015

  228. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:32 pm
    This is where I think young blood can help a bit. When you add young guys to the mix who play with sheer joy and fun, that tends to rub off on the old guys. They remember what it was like when the game was fun for them. And then they relax. And then it just gets contagious.

    ————-

    Agreed.. but it seems like they’ve avoided it mostly. I still don’t understand not trying out Pirela. Roberts is what he is. You can compile all of the data available, all of the projects, all of the eye tests…. and Roberts is what he is. I can’t understand their resistance to moving him. It’s bizarre.

  229. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:38 pm

    “That’s one of the reasons why, if what I hear is true, you’ll see pitching brought in via trade and hitting added via the farm.”

    ——

    I’m down with that. Just can’t happen soon enough.

  230. Moschitto June 25th, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    The infield defense is bad, and that is very evident. You have to wonder why they didn’t go hard after an available second baseman over the winter. For instance, the one that Seattle signed, after not much interest was expressed by the Yankee Brass. Just a “save your face” offer that they knew would be rejected. Do this when this same guy lets the baseball world know for months that he loves it here and wants to return. Future Hall of Famers don’t become available all that often. Then after you don’t sign him, it’s best to wage a carefully planned campaign to discredit the guy as a way of appeasing the fan base. Tell everyone how much “he loves his money” for instance. Instead, sign a bunch of guys and pay them top dollar who have a history of debilitating injuries
    Scream from the highest mountain about the unmitigated greed of a homegrown guy who is a perfect fit for your home ballpark, will get over 3000 hits, will be in the Hall of Fame and has a proven history of not getting hurt almost never.

  231. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    This is why I always thought this was at least a part (year) fix.
    The pieces were not all out there this OS.
    This is a major rebuild we are going through.
    The team as we knew it is gone.
    I don’t think fans appreciate this.

  232. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 3:27 pm

    Roberts and Johnson are not the problem.

    They are part of the problem.

    I really dislike people saying that parts of the team which actually suck and could have been avoided are ‘not the problem’. The team has a lot of problems, these after thought players included.
    ————————–

    The players are symptoms of the problem. The problem itself is the evaluation that goes into bringing those players aboard, using them and the fact that the organization hasn’t been able to develop or identify better options.

  233. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    Not starting Tanaka on Friday is a colossal mistake esp if they lose tonight.

  234. Ys Guy June 25th, 2014 at 3:44 pm

    the yankees are never about relaxing.

  235. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    The players are symptoms of the problem. The problem itself is the evaluation that goes into bringing those players aboard, using them and the fact that the organization hasn’t been able to develop or identify better options.
    ============
    chip,
    could be the answers are here next year.

  236. wanzies222 June 25th, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    SWB RailRiders ?@swbrailriders 4m
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    Pirela, LF
    Almonte, CF
    Murphy, DH
    Roller, 1B
    Wheeler, RF
    Sizemore, 3B
    Refsnyder, 2B
    Anna, SS
    Romine, C

    SP: RHP Aceves

    Pretty good offensive team. They are going to need every run they can get.

  237. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    “Corporate assassin is more like it.”

    ——

    See I don’t see that at all. If Hal were that type, he would have cleaned house last year over the abysmal performance of the farm system.

    To me, Hal is a process guy. Everything planned out in advance, and approached step by step. The exact opposite of his father, who was the dynamic seat of pants, act now type of manager.

    That happens a lot in families. When a child sees their dominating parent act a certain way, to that parent’s seeming disadvantage (George’s biggest criticism was his impulsiveness), the child takes a different approach. Sometimes dramatically different. That’s Hal.

  238. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    If there was some kind of 2 year plan to fix the infield the org made a mistake by selling this as a championship caliber team. They could have sold it as a transition, just trying to compete not trying to win it all, because they went into this year with an infield that had jeter, solarte, kj, roberts, dean anna and brendan ryan in it and an outfield that had soriano & ichiro in it.

  239. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    The players are symptoms of the problem. The problem itself is the evaluation that goes into bringing those players aboard, using them and the fact that the organization hasn’t been able to develop or identify better options.
    ============
    chip,
    could be the answers are here next year.
    ————————

    That’s true, as I said above I think the Yankees will dive right back into the market this winter to continue what they started – I think McCann, Ellsbuy and Tanaka were just the beginning and Roberts and Johnson were picked up because they were what was left. Next year I think the focus will be on finding better long term solutions for the positions they couldn’t address this past winter. Asdrubal Cabrera at SS and I think they’ll go for another OF and make Beltran the full time DH with Alex at 3b because, while he might not have much left, you can’t just make him disappear.

  240. J. Alfred Prufrock June 25th, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    Moschitto:

    They didn’t want to pay for this:

    Runner at 2nd .333 .481 .571 1.053
    Runner at 3rd .556 .692 1.000 1.692
    Scoring Position .362 .467 .603 1.070

    You get what you pay for.

  241. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:50 pm

    That happens a lot in families. When a child sees their dominating parent act a certain way, to that parent’s seeming disadvantage (George’s biggest criticism was his impulsiveness), the child takes a different approach. Sometimes dramatically different. That’s Hal.
    ======================
    Good call , I agree.

  242. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    Cano had the #’s no doubt but who was he knocking in?

  243. bigdan22 June 25th, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    The RailRiders can def hit. Interesting to see Almonte getting time in CF now. May not mean much. They really don’t have a true CF now with Richardson hurt.

    Pirela has really come on since he’s been installed as a leadoff hitter. I think for the first time in a long time, he starting to feel appreciated.

    That’s really good for employees too. To feel appreciated.

  244. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    If there was some kind of 2 year plan to fix the infield the org made a mistake by selling this as a championship caliber team.
    ===================
    Isn’t too much made of this “selling” thing?
    How did they sell it and who cares?
    You make up your own mind or you just let it play out.

  245. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    Maybe Megazord would have been a better analogy.

  246. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    And who was knocking him in?

  247. yankinvegas June 25th, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    What about the rumors that Cashman is about to sign an extension? I’m cool with it.
    The Yankees do not want Tanaka pitching in the ASG. That’s is telling MLB f you for killing our dynasty. Enjoy the playoffs without us or Boston possibly. Enjoy the utter mediocrity that you have created in the name of your sacred competitive balance.
    Screw MLB, the commissioner, the next commissioner, the media. They all wanted the Yankees taken down and I wish that Hal would say something about it.

  248. Chip June 25th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    If there was some kind of 2 year plan to fix the infield the org made a mistake by selling this as a championship caliber team. They could have sold it as a transition, just trying to compete not trying to win it all, because they went into this year with an infield that had jeter, solarte, kj, roberts, dean anna and brendan ryan in it and an outfield that had soriano & ichiro in it.
    ———————–

    Yankees always brand themselves as a championship caliber team because if they don’t then they’re afraid people will think of them as the Mets.

  249. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    The players are symptoms of the problem. The problem itself is the evaluation that goes into bringing those players aboard, using them and the fact that the organization hasn’t been able to develop or identify better options.

    ————-

    There’s also this really slow to make changes mentality that’s hamstrung the club… telling Morales to wait is a good, recent example.

  250. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    They all wanted the Yankees taken down and I wish that Hal would say something about it.
    =================
    Except that Hal was all in on the parity thing, to save money of course.

  251. Jerkface June 25th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Maybe Megazord would have been a better analogy.

    I think you were thinking of Voltron.

  252. Shame Spencer June 25th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    :arrow:

  253. mick June 25th, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    There’s also this really slow to make changes mentality that’s hamstrung the club… telling Morales to wait is a good, recent example.
    ===========================
    Beltran is still here.

  254. RhapsodyInBlue June 25th, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Thanks for your input Moschitto the sock puppet.

    It just had to be said but the person who who have liked to have said it once again already has said it a bizillion times.

  255. ariel June 25th, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    Unless and until the Yankees totally revamp the farm system (actually start over again from top to bottom) mediocrity will continue on with old washed up veterans whom nobody really wants at any realistic price stacked from top to bottom. This article appearing in today’s Denver Post could easily apply to our team (and I mean “our team” as I have been a diehard since 1947…and yes I am not senile) http://www.denverpost.com/kisz.....038;place2. Simply compare the Yankee #1 draft choices of the past 2-3 years with those of the Cardinals. Actually, the entire organization (other than Girardi and “some” of his staff) requires revamping; otherwise it certainly will be 1965 – 1975 “all over again. And it starts with the farm system.

  256. Jarak June 25th, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    @yankinvegas. Nice to hear a sane voice. I go back to 1970, was at the game Aug 3 and part of the 16 min ovation and wore a black arm band for months after the crash. Stuck with them through the early 90s and have enjoyed this great ride from ’94 til now.

    I think the worst blow this season was Beltran and the wall in Tampa. The offense never recovered.

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